I needed 3 Rogue wins last night, so I threw together the only Odd Rogue deck on HSReplay that didn't have Myra's (I'd rather not craft it unless I feel I absolutely need it). Ended up going 3-0 at rank 5, so maybe the deck still has some legs.
I find it easier to refer them just by year, but I guess you also have to be able to remember what xpacs were from what year for that.
Well, plus, other than promotional material, it's pretty useless information otherwise. You encounter very close to zero actual elements in the game client that reference it at all.
Rotating more frequently would force players to spend a lot more money to stay competitive, which makes me surprised to see it being suggested so much on this board
Personally I think a ‘two year meta’ is fine, they just need to introduce more balance levers against the most degenerate combo stuff (more interaction in opposing turns basically)
I can 100% guarantee you interaction in opposing turns will not happen. That's likely to be a code base rewrite.
I'm sort of surprised that they are asking this so directly - I'm not sure whether to take that as a positive or negative sign. Like, I'm glad they are asking! But uhh... shouldn't you have a decent understanding of what's causing your player base to leave?
There's been a bunch of good suggestions here, and my sentiments align pretty closely with most:
1) The game doesn't develop a good sense of player agency. The choices you make both in and out of game don't feel as impactful as they should. More choices - especially meaningful choices - would go a long way towards making a deeper and richer game.
2) The game needs to be friendlier towards new and returning players. There's a bunch of solutions here many others have proposed good ones.
3) There needs to be a better understanding of their nerf policy and what signals we should look for. A set schedule and better communication would go a long way.
4) There needs to be better class identity and more game modes.
As one of the few people who still enjoys playing all I can really think of is additional stuff to work towards. Having an upgrade to gold heroes (platinum? idk) for like 5k or 10k wins would be something cool.
As one of the few people who still enjoys playing all I can really think of is additional stuff to work towards. Having an upgrade to gold heroes (platinum? idk) for like 5k or 10k wins would be something cool.
Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. I want a healthy, diverse meta and I want more reasons to want to keep playing. Right now, once you've gotten golden heroes there's nothing long-term to look forward to. If Hearthstone had a robust achievement system (achievements for pulling off certain combos in each expansion would rule) like every other Blizzard game, that'd be great.
As one of the few people who still enjoys playing all I can really think of is additional stuff to work towards. Having an upgrade to gold heroes (platinum? idk) for like 5k or 10k wins would be something cool.
Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. I want a healthy, diverse meta and I want more reasons to want to keep playing. Right now, once you've gotten golden heroes there's nothing long-term to look forward to. If Hearthstone had a robust achievement system (achievements for pulling off certain combos in each expansion would rule) like every other Blizzard game, that'd be great.
I'd like to see triclass cards for disparate classes, like Mage/Warrior/Druid, Shaman/Warlock/Paladin, and Hunter/Priest/Rogue. They'd be like enemy color gold cards in Magic.
RE: Rotating sets faster - I can appreciate wanting that feeling of freshness more often but it does come with a downside of even greater dust commitment in a game that has gotten more and more expensive over time. I think what you guys are really after is a richer and deeper playing experience. In order to do that, we need larger sets with slightly greater complexity, and cards that act as safety valves. Too often we don't get counters until 2 or 3 sets later. It's really difficult (especially for new players) to understand how they are supposed to build decks to fight other decks.
We really need cards that say, "This is how you fight elementals. This is how you fight combo. This is how you fight odd/even." Having a variety of cards like this will give us options and allow satisfaction of metagame development to last a bit longer.
RE: Rotating sets faster - I can appreciate wanting that feeling of freshness more often but it does come with a downside of even greater dust commitment in a game that has gotten more and more expensive over time. I think what you guys are really after is a richer and deeper playing experience. In order to do that, we need larger sets with slightly greater complexity, and cards that act as safety valves. Too often we don't get counters until 2 or 3 sets later. It's really difficult (especially for new players) to understand how they are supposed to build decks to fight other decks.
We really need cards that say, "This is how you fight elementals. This is how you fight combo. This is how you fight odd/even." Having a variety of cards like this will give us options and allow satisfaction of metagame development to last a bit longer.
Larger sets don't accomplish anything.
We already have sets that are ~130 cards, but a vast majority of them are pack filler garbage. We don't need larger sets, we need better card design. What's the point of printing ~130 cards if so, so many of them are actually unplayable? Larger sets also doesn't exactly help re: dust commitment either.
The piece of the puzzle that's missing in terms of more frequent rotations is that they'd need to also hand out more freebies, have returning player/new player rewards, etc etc. But that's extremely unlikely. It'd work in said hypothetical system, especially without a Classic set anymore, but they won't do it.
The problem as I see it is that right now, we have sets from a year ago (Mammoth's sets, KFT/KNC in particular) that are just absolutely fucking dominant. The power creep in those sets is out the window, and the game has felt the same for the entire past year. Year of the Raven has basically just been Year of the Mammoth Redux. That doesn't feel good. When you have sets in the game that stay in for upwards of 2 years, you start to see this kind of problem happen.
on the other hand i don't think any of the raven cards that see play are super fun so maybe it's a blessing in disguise
oh boy supercollider. oh boy odd/even. oh boy master oakheart. oh boy ziliax. oh boy mass hysteria. oh boy topsy turvy. oh boy doctor boom.
if the pitch is a format even more strongly defined by those cards rather than including things like the busted spell hunter cards, i don't know that that's an upside
The only card from this year that seems blatantly busted to me right now is Raiding Party. 3 mana tutor 3 is just as dumb as 4 mana tutor 4 was before the summer nerfs.
Rotating more frequently would force players to spend a lot more money to stay competitive, which makes me surprised to see it being suggested so much on this board
Personally I think a ‘two year meta’ is fine, they just need to introduce more balance levers against the most degenerate combo stuff (more interaction in opposing turns basically)
I can 100% guarantee you interaction in opposing turns will not happen. That's likely to be a code base rewrite.
I'm sort of surprised that they are asking this so directly - I'm not sure whether to take that as a positive or negative sign. Like, I'm glad they are asking! But uhh... shouldn't you have a decent understanding of what's causing your player base to leave?
There's been a bunch of good suggestions here, and my sentiments align pretty closely with most:
1) The game doesn't develop a good sense of player agency. The choices you make both in and out of game don't feel as impactful as they should. More choices - especially meaningful choices - would go a long way towards making a deeper and richer game.
2) The game needs to be friendlier towards new and returning players. There's a bunch of solutions here many others have proposed good ones.
3) There needs to be a better understanding of their nerf policy and what signals we should look for. A set schedule and better communication would go a long way.
4) There needs to be better class identity and more game modes.
well, I dunno; it doesn't need to be enemy turn interaction necessarily, there just need to be ways to stop the 'draw your combo ASAP then win' types of decks that always proliferate late in the rotation
so far the best they've done is like, skulking geist I guess? But that's a pretty limited and boring level of interaction
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
There just needs to be more interactive cards like Demonic Project and Dirty Rat. Cards that allow you to interact with their deck in some way. And they need to be neutral cards instead of class stuff.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
RE: Rotating sets faster - I can appreciate wanting that feeling of freshness more often but it does come with a downside of even greater dust commitment in a game that has gotten more and more expensive over time. I think what you guys are really after is a richer and deeper playing experience. In order to do that, we need larger sets with slightly greater complexity, and cards that act as safety valves. Too often we don't get counters until 2 or 3 sets later. It's really difficult (especially for new players) to understand how they are supposed to build decks to fight other decks.
We really need cards that say, "This is how you fight elementals. This is how you fight combo. This is how you fight odd/even." Having a variety of cards like this will give us options and allow satisfaction of metagame development to last a bit longer.
Larger sets don't accomplish anything.
We already have sets that are ~130 cards, but a vast majority of them are pack filler garbage. We don't need larger sets, we need better card design. What's the point of printing ~130 cards if so, so many of them are actually unplayable? Larger sets also doesn't exactly help re: dust commitment either.
The piece of the puzzle that's missing in terms of more frequent rotations is that they'd need to also hand out more freebies, have returning player/new player rewards, etc etc. But that's extremely unlikely. It'd work in said hypothetical system, especially without a Classic set anymore, but they won't do it.
The problem as I see it is that right now, we have sets from a year ago (Mammoth's sets, KFT/KNC in particular) that are just absolutely fucking dominant. The power creep in those sets is out the window, and the game has felt the same for the entire past year. Year of the Raven has basically just been Year of the Mammoth Redux. That doesn't feel good. When you have sets in the game that stay in for upwards of 2 years, you start to see this kind of problem happen.
The bar for playability in any format is quite high. With more game modes you want more cards (and in fact, more game modes practically demands more cards to be printed). Smaller sets put significant pressure on each card you print to fill a specific function. With more card space, you can print more effects and have more room for safety valve type cards.
Imagine you can only print 10 cards per set. That's so little room you barely have enough space to print cards that support an actual strategy, let alone counter strategies. You have so much more flexibility at 100 cards.
Power creep is a separate topic, but part of the dust commitment issue is just how much power has been consolidated into epics and legendaries. That's another problem that should be addressed.
I don't always get matched against discard Warlocks.
But when I do, they always draw the motherfucking nuts.
I played against one yesterday as Wall Priest, and I went hard as quickly as possible - dropping a Divine Spirit and an Inner Fire on a Tar Creeper and slamming into his face. He ended up with a turn 5 Cataclysm to discard his hand and complete his quest. His hand, at the time, had two High Priestesses Jeklik in it already.
Still won when Guldan resurrected 3 basic imps and the discard-on-damage demon.
Like, just a quick follow up. Do you guys remember the days of wallet warrior? Part of the joke was how much of an outlier control warrior was to build - something like 10K dust. And that was insane back in the early days of hearthstone!
Before the Druid nerfs, I think the average dust cost was something like 12k-14k. And that isn't unique either. There are other archetypes with at least as much of a dust commitment. A big part of that is having combo oriented sets where one-of cards get printed at Legendary, but it dramatically underscores the need for simple, cheap cards that can help fight those archetypes. Cheap proactive strategies would be huge net benefit to the game.
I wanted to give a shoutout to @Dibby for cheering me on this morning in a game as Wall Priest vs Control Warlock. At first he was upset because it was a Wall Priest, but came around as the game went on.
Things looked bad when I got hit with a Geist on 6 burning both of my Inner Fires. I was just about ready to concede, when Dibby told me not to give up. He said to believe in the power of wall priest.
5 Lich King resurrections later I won in deep fatigue. Dibby was so proud and happy he crafted a Wall Priest deck and won his next three games!*
*portions of this post were based on a true story with some fictional elements added.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
+4
lwt1973King of ThievesSyndicationRegistered Userregular
Dropping High Priest Thekal as a DK Jaina won me the game against annoying Wall Priest. I had 74 life and he hit me for 53 in his last gasp.
Thank you, Sindragosa.
"He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
I wanted to give a shoutout to Dibby for cheering me on this morning in a game as Wall Priest vs Control Warlock. At first he was upset because it was a Wall Priest, but came around as the game went on.
Things looked bad when I got hit with a Geist on 6 burning both of my Inner Fires. I was just about ready to concede, when Dibby told me not to give up. He said to believe in the power of wall priest.
5 Lich King resurrections later I won in deep fatigue. Dibby was so proud and happy he crafted a Wall Priest deck and won his next three games!*
*portions of this post were based on a true story with some fictional elements added.
this is some heinous fuckin' slander
cheering you on more like held fucking hostage to my goddamn classic pack daily
I wanted to give a shoutout to Dibby for cheering me on this morning in a game as Wall Priest vs Control Warlock. At first he was upset because it was a Wall Priest, but came around as the game went on.
Things looked bad when I got hit with a Geist on 6 burning both of my Inner Fires. I was just about ready to concede, when Dibby told me not to give up. He said to believe in the power of wall priest.
5 Lich King resurrections later I won in deep fatigue. Dibby was so proud and happy he crafted a Wall Priest deck and won his next three games!*
*portions of this post were based on a true story with some fictional elements added.
this is some heinous fuckin' slander
cheering you on more like held fucking hostage to my goddamn classic pack daily
>:0
That's why I reroll them.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
Based on the tavern brawl, it turns out that what discardlock really needed was an overpowered totem. I think that was the fastest 3 wins I've ever gotten short of the 2-card deck ones. Summoning void lords and infernals on turn 1/2 while killing the other totem with a soul fire makes people concede real quick.
Posts
2017 Mammoth (Un'Goro, KotFT, KnC)
2018 Raven (Witchwood, Boomsday, Rumble)
I find it easier to refer them just by year, but I guess you also have to be able to remember what xpacs were from what year for that.
Well, plus, other than promotional material, it's pretty useless information otherwise. You encounter very close to zero actual elements in the game client that reference it at all.
god
LEAST I GOT RAVEN RIGHT
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
I can 100% guarantee you interaction in opposing turns will not happen. That's likely to be a code base rewrite.
I'm sort of surprised that they are asking this so directly - I'm not sure whether to take that as a positive or negative sign. Like, I'm glad they are asking! But uhh... shouldn't you have a decent understanding of what's causing your player base to leave?
There's been a bunch of good suggestions here, and my sentiments align pretty closely with most:
1) The game doesn't develop a good sense of player agency. The choices you make both in and out of game don't feel as impactful as they should. More choices - especially meaningful choices - would go a long way towards making a deeper and richer game.
2) The game needs to be friendlier towards new and returning players. There's a bunch of solutions here many others have proposed good ones.
3) There needs to be a better understanding of their nerf policy and what signals we should look for. A set schedule and better communication would go a long way.
4) There needs to be better class identity and more game modes.
Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. I want a healthy, diverse meta and I want more reasons to want to keep playing. Right now, once you've gotten golden heroes there's nothing long-term to look forward to. If Hearthstone had a robust achievement system (achievements for pulling off certain combos in each expansion would rule) like every other Blizzard game, that'd be great.
They've never re-used a gimmick and I doubt they'll start now.
I'd like to see triclass cards for disparate classes, like Mage/Warrior/Druid, Shaman/Warlock/Paladin, and Hunter/Priest/Rogue. They'd be like enemy color gold cards in Magic.
Discover.
Y'ALL FORGETTIN BOUT MY BOY RAVEN FAMILIAR???
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
We really need cards that say, "This is how you fight elementals. This is how you fight combo. This is how you fight odd/even." Having a variety of cards like this will give us options and allow satisfaction of metagame development to last a bit longer.
Larger sets don't accomplish anything.
We already have sets that are ~130 cards, but a vast majority of them are pack filler garbage. We don't need larger sets, we need better card design. What's the point of printing ~130 cards if so, so many of them are actually unplayable? Larger sets also doesn't exactly help re: dust commitment either.
The piece of the puzzle that's missing in terms of more frequent rotations is that they'd need to also hand out more freebies, have returning player/new player rewards, etc etc. But that's extremely unlikely. It'd work in said hypothetical system, especially without a Classic set anymore, but they won't do it.
The problem as I see it is that right now, we have sets from a year ago (Mammoth's sets, KFT/KNC in particular) that are just absolutely fucking dominant. The power creep in those sets is out the window, and the game has felt the same for the entire past year. Year of the Raven has basically just been Year of the Mammoth Redux. That doesn't feel good. When you have sets in the game that stay in for upwards of 2 years, you start to see this kind of problem happen.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
oh boy supercollider. oh boy odd/even. oh boy master oakheart. oh boy ziliax. oh boy mass hysteria. oh boy topsy turvy. oh boy doctor boom.
if the pitch is a format even more strongly defined by those cards rather than including things like the busted spell hunter cards, i don't know that that's an upside
well, I dunno; it doesn't need to be enemy turn interaction necessarily, there just need to be ways to stop the 'draw your combo ASAP then win' types of decks that always proliferate late in the rotation
so far the best they've done is like, skulking geist I guess? But that's a pretty limited and boring level of interaction
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
But when I do, they always draw the motherfucking nuts.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
The bar for playability in any format is quite high. With more game modes you want more cards (and in fact, more game modes practically demands more cards to be printed). Smaller sets put significant pressure on each card you print to fill a specific function. With more card space, you can print more effects and have more room for safety valve type cards.
Imagine you can only print 10 cards per set. That's so little room you barely have enough space to print cards that support an actual strategy, let alone counter strategies. You have so much more flexibility at 100 cards.
Power creep is a separate topic, but part of the dust commitment issue is just how much power has been consolidated into epics and legendaries. That's another problem that should be addressed.
I played against one yesterday as Wall Priest, and I went hard as quickly as possible - dropping a Divine Spirit and an Inner Fire on a Tar Creeper and slamming into his face. He ended up with a turn 5 Cataclysm to discard his hand and complete his quest. His hand, at the time, had two High Priestesses Jeklik in it already.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Before the Druid nerfs, I think the average dust cost was something like 12k-14k. And that isn't unique either. There are other archetypes with at least as much of a dust commitment. A big part of that is having combo oriented sets where one-of cards get printed at Legendary, but it dramatically underscores the need for simple, cheap cards that can help fight those archetypes. Cheap proactive strategies would be huge net benefit to the game.
Things looked bad when I got hit with a Geist on 6 burning both of my Inner Fires. I was just about ready to concede, when Dibby told me not to give up. He said to believe in the power of wall priest.
5 Lich King resurrections later I won in deep fatigue. Dibby was so proud and happy he crafted a Wall Priest deck and won his next three games!*
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Thank you, Sindragosa.
this is some heinous fuckin' slander
cheering you on more like held fucking hostage to my goddamn classic pack daily
>:0
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
It's ... WAYR! ... to find that online, too.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I'm pretty sure Wall Priest players are actually just Satan.
That's why I reroll them.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page