It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a [Girl Thread]

meatflower · January 2008

Not another one of these! Oh wait...it's you who says that.

I started the Winter term at my CC today. The last class was Interpersonal Communication which should be pretty self explanatory. We were asked to form groups of five and introduce ourselves.

I kind of hit it off with one of the girls in the group...in that I found it easy to talk to her and I think she felt the same. When class ended I struck up a conversation with her before we both walked out and it continued on the way to the parking structure. When I got there she asked where I was going (what level), I replied, and she said she didn't have a car but she'd follow me. Before we got on the elevator she said she usually walked home and without thinking long enough to doubt myself I asked if she'd like a ride.

We talked the whole way and the conversation flowed pretty easily, just general info that you exchange with someone you've just met. I dropped her off and said good night and since then I've just been thinking what my next move will be. I know I need to act fast to avoid the "friend zone" bullshit but for once I feel pretty confident. Maybe she's really trusting but I don't think most people would hop in the car with someone they met less than two hours ago. Or I'm making something out of nothing. This is where the doubt gets to me and I end up not acting. I don't know very much about her but I just got a really good impression from the whole thing, on an instinctual level, and I think I need to do something or I'll regret it.

I also don't know if she has a boyfriend but I really doubt it. She said she lives alone and didn't mention a friend or anything that sounded like that. She doesn't have a car though (don't think she can afford it with paying rent too) so I'll probably end up giving her a ride home tomorrow night. If I have any sense I'll ask her if she'd like to go get a cup of coffee or something on the way to the car....I'll probably know by then.

Thoughts, objections, and suggestions are all welcome and requested. If it matters, I'm 19 and she's 20.

Scrublet · January 2008

I think you're on the right track. However, don't read too much into the fact that she was willing to get a ride with you after recently meeting. It's a pretty safe bet that if you were to have done something, the list of suspects would have been low. I'd say stick to your coffee plan (or lunch).

Daenris · January 2008

I agree, don't read too much into the car thing. I mean, especially in college most people probably wouldn't have seconds thoughts about taking a ride from a classmate (obviously this is different if it's some random person they met on the street, but something about the shared bond of class/school and the knowledge that you're a fellow student I suspect tends to put people more at ease with things like this).

However, that doesn't mean there isn't maybe something there, so it doesn't hurt to see if she wants to hang out. Go for it.

meatflower · January 2008

You guys have a point. I guess I misjudged that.

I was also thinking I'm avoiding the obvious...this is an interpersonal communication class, my book probably has a chapter on this kind of stuff (body language, verbal cues, etc.).

The Cat · January 2008

Yeah, you're massively overthinking. Massively. You really want to try spending more than an hour with her first.

meatflower · January 2008

Yeah, maybe tomorrow after class I'll feel completely different.

I probably am over thinking the whole thing but there have been enough times in the past where I didn't do something in a timely fashion and ended up blowing an opportunity.

Spawnbroker · January 2008

Want some advice? Don't stress out this much about it. Don't think of her as a girl, think of her as another person. A lot of the reason why some guys have problems in these situations is they get nervous because she's female and you're not. Don't look at it that way, and you'll be a lot more successful I guarantee you.

Go do something you enjoy doing, play some video games. Get her off your mind. The more you think about it, the more likely you are to overanalyze and fuck it up before anything even happens.

Taterskin · January 2008

meatflower wrote: »

Yeah, maybe tomorrow after class I'll feel completely different.

I probably am over thinking the whole thing but there have been enough times in the past where I didn't do something in a timely fashion and ended up blowing an opportunity.

You have a class with her. You will be seeing her at least once a week in a non-hostile setting for a couple of months.

Just ask her to do something outside of class next time you give her a ride home. If she says no, case closed. If yes, goaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllll!

It is important that if things dont work out, that you dont make a fuss about it.

You: "You wanna get snowcones after class tommorrow?"
Her: "No, I can't"
You: "Ok, did you see that guy in the hall with lesions all over his skin? I think he has leprosy!"

ViolentChemistry · January 2008

meatflower wrote: »

Yeah, maybe tomorrow after class I'll feel completely different.

I probably am over thinking the whole thing but there have been enough times in the past where I didn't do something in a timely fashion and ended up blowing an opportunity.

You don't have to be in love with a girl to ask her out. She's not in love with you either anyway, the idea of going out is for both of you to figure out if you click. Which means more than just paying attention to how much you think you like her. You just do it and see if it works. Essentially.

EggyToast · January 2008

Well, things in your favor is that she accepted the ride. If she was creeped out by you, or had a boyfriend or didn't like you, she probably wouldn't accept a ride from someone she just met (unless she was a naively trusting person). As for against, uh, well there isn't anything against. Don't overthink it, ask her out to coffee. If something happens, great. If you get the vibe that she's just into hanging out, do that. You said conversation has flown relatively naturally when you were talking with her, so use that as a plus, BUT the next time you talk inject some talk about getting together sometime that's not class related (like coffee). That's all. I'd wait until the next class, personally, so she doesn't think you're being desperate or reading more into a ride home. You don't want her to think that because you gave her a ride that she owes you a date.

RocketSauce · January 2008

The next step is to ask her if she'd like to do something outside of class. Find something that you think is fun, and ask her if she'd like to come. Go to lunch after class, go see a movie. See if you two hit it off.

I wouldn't say you're overthinking anything, you're just excited about the possibilities, and you don't want to mess it up. Just play it cool and act natural, girls can always tell if you're not being yourself, or coming off as desperate. If something happens, it happens. If not, maybe you have a new friend.

vonPoonBurGer · January 2008

meatflower wrote: »

I'll probably end up giving her a ride home tomorrow night. If I have any sense I'll ask her if she'd like to go get a cup of coffee or something on the way to the car....I'll probably know by then.

Do ask her if she'd like to get coffee / lunch / whatever sometime. Don't ask on the way to the car. If she says no, then you've got a potentially awkward car ride ahead of you, where you feel like a chucklehead for reading too much into things, and she feels potentially trapped in this awkward situation in this guy's car. Instead, ask her as you're dropping her off. If she says yes at that point, you know she's not just saying it to avoid the awkward car situation.

tuscloud311 · January 2008

vonPoonBurGer wrote: »

meatflower wrote: »

I'll probably end up giving her a ride home tomorrow night. If I have any sense I'll ask her if she'd like to go get a cup of coffee or something on the way to the car....I'll probably know by then.

Do ask her if she'd like to get coffee / lunch / whatever sometime. Don't ask on the way to the car. If she says no, then you've got a potentially awkward car ride ahead of you, where you feel like a chucklehead for reading too much into things, and she feels potentially trapped in this awkward situation in this guy's car. Instead, ask her as you're dropping her off. If she says yes at that point, you know she's not just saying it to avoid the awkward car situation.

amazing advice.

Nakatomi2010 · January 2008

Ask her if she'd like a ride back to class the following day....

"You know, I could swing back by here tomorrow morning and pick you up if you like...."

In theory if she likes you enough to want to date you, and she says yes then you can plan around that... You can probably coordinate a time, and give her your phone number if plans change.....

This will also give her your phone number so that if she gets bored she can give you a call and go from there...

Though those may also all push you into the Friend Zone.....

meeker · January 2008

Isn't there a rule about ladder theory, which is all over this thread?

Just ask her out. Do it after the ride home, ask her to go out on a day when you do not have class together. Make it something easy, lunch, coffeee, etc. Do not mention "going over notes" or "helping her study."

vonPoonBurGer · January 2008

meeker wrote: »

Isn't there a rule about ladder theory, which is all over this thread?

I think the OP is the only one who's mentioned it that I noticed. If he wants to subscribe to that misbegotten set of "rules", that's his business. I don't see any advice given so far that really has the reeking dead-fish taint of ladder theory, and in fact I'd say most of the suggestions do a really good job of steering him away from its pitfalls.

Edit: Oh wait, Nakatomi. /sigh

Nakatomi2010 · January 2008

vonPoonBurGer wrote: »

meeker wrote: »

Isn't there a rule about ladder theory, which is all over this thread?

I think the OP is the only one who's mentioned it that I noticed. If he wants to subscribe to that misbegotten set of "rules", that's his business. I don't see any advice given so far that really has the reeking dead-fish taint of ladder theory, and in fact I'd say most of the suggestions do a really good job of steering him away from its pitfalls.

Edit: Oh wait, Nakatomi. /sigh

Wait, what about a ladder theory, I know nothing.... I merely made a suggestion...

ViolentChemistry · January 2008

It's actually only in one post, cap'n. Nakatomi, there's no such thing as "the friends-zone". Shit isn't anywhere simple enough to be explained that way.

Nakatomi2010 · January 2008

ViolentChemistry wrote: »

It's actually only in one post, cap'n. Nakatomi, there's no such thing as "the friends-zone". Shit isn't anywhere simple enough to be explained that way.

I only made mention of it because the OP did... I was trying to use a term that would relate to what he was saying... He said he wanted to avoid that area and that while my suggestions would, in theory, get him where he wants to be, that it might also push him into the area he does not want to be in, which he referenced as the Friend Zone.... Didn't know I was using some terminology from some weird theory.... He used a term, and I just tried to relate to it....

ViolentChemistry · January 2008

It's a term that requires a theory to have any meaning. And that theory is ladder-theory, the one that says you can only be one or the other (friend or s.o.) and that there's no middle ground nor any room for changing between the two once you are assigned to one.

Daenris · January 2008

Not really... there's no reason someone can't talk about the "friend zone" without referencing ladder theory. I mean in the context of beginning relationships it's very obvious what the meaning is. People frequently talk about the dangers of becoming "just a friend" to someone they're interested in without referring to or speaking of/about Ladder Theory. And I'm sure people probably discussed it in pretty much that same manner before Ladder Theory was even thought up.

ViolentChemistry · January 2008

Daenris wrote: »

Not really... there's no reason someone can't talk about the "friend zone" without referencing ladder theory. I mean in the context of beginning relationships it's very obvious what the meaning is. People frequently talk about the dangers of becoming "just a friend" to someone they're interested in without referring to or speaking of/about Ladder Theory. And I'm sure people probably discussed it in pretty much that same manner before Ladder Theory was even thought up.

Yes, that's what Ladder Theory is a parody of. Good job.

Daenris · January 2008

Yes. And my point is that someone can still talk about that (being "just friends") without it being in any way involved with Ladder Theory.

ViolentChemistry · January 2008

Daenris wrote: »

Yes. And my point is that someone can still talk about that (being "just friends") without it being in any way involved with Ladder Theory.

Nope. They can talk about it in the terms ladder theory does without knowing they're subscribing to ladder theory or despite being thoroughly convinced that they're not, but the statement you just made is false, as they're buying into the bullshit even though they're not calling it by that name. They're subscribing to a false dichotomy and to terms and outline of "how shit works" proposed by ladder theory. And they're implying that there is something wrong with being a friend. Oh no I'm not saying there's something wrong with wanting more than that, I'm saying there's something wrong with counting interaction with someone as a failure on the grounds that you ended up making a new friend instead of getting laid. The fact that they don't know it or that they deny it doesn't change reality. Ladder theory is not open for debate in H/A, and calling it by another name (or simply refusing to give it a name) doesn't get around that. That discussion stops now.

Daenris · January 2008

There's not anything inherently wrong with making a friend as opposed to dating someone. However, if you want to date someone but end up becoming "just friends" then that may or may not be satisfying because of your initial desire to date.

And this:

Nope. They can talk about it in the terms ladder theory does without knowing they're subscribing to ladder theory or despite being thoroughly convinced that they're not, but the statement you just made is false, as they're buying into the bullshit even though they're not calling it by that name.

implies that two different theories can not ever have any overlapping elements. Just because they're talking about becoming "just friends" or the "friend-zone" doesn't mean they're subscribing to ladder theory, because it says nothing about the rest of their beliefs on dating which could be drastically different.

Daenris · January 2008

And to clarify... I'm not debating Ladder Theory. Personally I think it's bullshit. I'm debating the semantics of someone using a term or idea while not actually believing in/subscribing to/knowing about a theory that that term happens to exist in.

ViolentChemistry · January 2008

Daenris wrote: »

There's not anything inherently wrong with making a friend as opposed to dating someone. However, if you want to date someone but end up becoming "just friends" then that may or may not be satisfying because of your initial desire to date.

And this:

Nope. They can talk about it in the terms ladder theory does without knowing they're subscribing to ladder theory or despite being thoroughly convinced that they're not, but the statement you just made is false, as they're buying into the bullshit even though they're not calling it by that name.

implies that two different theories can not ever have any overlapping elements. Just because they're talking about becoming "just friends" or the "friend-zone" doesn't mean they're subscribing to ladder theory, because it says nothing about the rest of their beliefs on dating which could be drastically different.

I told you this was not open for discussion. This is the last warning you're getting. Also your argument doesn't make any sense, "they're not endorsing ladder theory they're just endorsing a lot of the same horribly wrong ideas as ladder theory" is not a productive approach given that preventing the giving of bad advice is the point of disallowing ladder theory. Becoming someone's friend is not a rejection, people often end up dating some of their friends and they also end up never dating some of their friends, fussing about "THE FRIENDS-ZONE!" is retarded ladder-theory bullshit. It's retarded on the grounds that A) being someone's friend doesn't mean you can't or won't ever date (though if you can't handle being a friend they are rather unlikely to ever want to date you) and

if you are disappointed to make friends with someone you like there is something horribly wrong with the way you're looking at the world. Just to reiterate, you're not allowed to argue this further. There is to be no discussion of ladder theory nor of the fucked up ideas that comprise it here. Period. Not a new rule by any stretch.

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