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Pre-Fight Debate Thread: Bracket 6

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Posts

  • Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Spectre, I'm sorry for challenging your authority.

    Have all of my opinions for me from now on.

    Conditional_Axe on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Spectre, I'm sorry for challenging your authority.

    Have all of my opinions for me from now on.

    That'll learn ya. Thinkin for yourself when Spectre is around. Shame on you.

    Im still not sure about the fight between Taskmaster and Deathstroke. Taskmaster can copy the weapons and fighting styles of the Marvel heroes, but he doesn't copy the powers as well. It's splitting hairs, but I think it's an important thing to consider.

    Marathon on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    It's funny because I'm a genius and always correct about these things, except when I'm not.

    Which is not this time. This time I'm right.

    Spectre-x on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    It's funny because I'm a genius and always correct about these things, except when I'm not.

    Which is not this time. This time I'm right.

    Except these are all a matter of opinion, there is no "right" answer.

    Marathon on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    No, really, Deathstroke is not faster than the Flashes. The flash wouldn't run into the sword because he moves at the speed of light with reflexes at the speed of light. So he'd see the damn sword.

    Munkus Beaver on
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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Well, I mean Spex does have a point here. Wally was once shot in the back of the head completely without warning, and as soon as the bullet started to touch his head his powers kicked in automatically, and he was able to avoid getting his brains blown out. It's borderline impossible for Slade to stab Wally, so I'm not sure we should take the Identity Crisis fight into consideration. And I'm still not sure how Slade got Wally to run into the sword.

    Here's an overhead diagram.
    sladewtfpc4.jpg

    Okay, so Wally (red) started out in front of Slade (blue and orange), who was a few feet in front of the steps of the safehouse he and Light were in, ran around the mines (yellow) until he got right behind him and, rather than punch him a thousand times in the head, or look down and go, "Oh hey a sword," he ran around him in a curved path, and then got behind him and ran straight forward into his back. How's that even work?

    Munch on
  • GoodCitizenGoodCitizen Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm switching my stance to favor taskmaster in this fight. I thought Deathstroke's healing was more on par with deadpool/agent X. Taskmaster doesn't have the endurance for those kinds of fights, and starts losing effectiveness as he takes damage.

    I think this fight is gonna come down to who gets the first hits in. It'd still be very close, but I like taskmaster alot, so I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. Never said I wasn't biased...

    GoodCitizen on
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  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Deathstroke is a powerful healer, but not a fast one.

    He regenerates back from death, but generally he does not heal anywhere near as fast as Wolverine or Deadpool.

    Spectre-x on
  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Deathstroke is a powerful healer, but not a fast one.

    He regenerates back from death, but generally he does not heal anywhere near as fast as Wolverine or Deadpool.

    Thanks!

    Hensler on
  • Pantaley ShlopapaPantaley Shlopapa Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Bullseye turns anything into a deadly weapon, which always hits the exact spot he wants it to hit. Sure, he could copy Bullseye's ability to throw a card but he couldn't copy the deadly accuracy, I suppose.

    I would assume he could since he already knows Lester's fighting style (or was that Echo?) and all throwing is is muscle memory, so it's entirely feasible for Taskmaster to do it...I suppose. Besides, TM has the ability to learn Slade's fighting style/method while he's fighting, right?

    My only concerns for TM are:

    Slade being intended to be evil Batman.

    Slade being one of two people (Supes) alive in DC 3000. I know it isn't that big of a deal with the regen and all, but it's gotta count for something.

    I'm still on the fence with this one.

    Pantaley Shlopapa on
    flash1.png
  • Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Munch wrote:
    Well, I mean Spex does have a point here. Wally was once shot in the back of the head completely without warning, and as soon as the bullet started to touch his head his powers kicked in automatically, and he was able to avoid getting his brains blown out. It's borderline impossible for Slade to stab Wally, so I'm not sure we should take the Identity Crisis fight into consideration. And I'm still not sure how Slade got Wally to run into the sword.

    Here's an overhead diagram.
    sladewtfpc4.jpg

    Okay, so Wally (red) started out in front of Slade (blue and orange), who was a few feet in front of the steps of the safehouse he and Light were in, ran around the mines (yellow) until he got right behind him and, rather than punch him a thousand times in the head, or look down and go, "Oh hey a sword," he ran around him in a curved path, and then got behind him and ran straight forward into his back. How's that even work?

    Well, it's dumb for me to argue, since it won't do anything to sway the votes anyways. But the sword is being held at an angle when Wally is impaled on it, so I'd just chalk it up to slightly inconsistent artwork and odd placement of the characters movements vs. the building (I have no idea what Im talking about).

    Those few pages were problem my favorite in the entire story though..and was I the only one to cringe when Ollie said.."He twists the sword to make sure he stays down."

    Ouch.

    Bad Karma on
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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Yeah, I cringed. (Since Wally would have automatically vibrated as a reflex action, like that time he was nearly shot in the head.)

    DouglasDanger on
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Just when I think the Flashes can't get more "wtf?" stuff like this pops up. Rather than tearing our minds apart trying to figure out how Wally can avoid being shot in the back of the head yet run right into a sword I think it's safe to assume that this was a case of a writer looking for a way to do something "cool" and thus forgot that the Speed Force > anything anyone else can do. Ever.

    Caveman Paws on
  • Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Just when I think the Flashes can't get more "wtf?" stuff like this pops up. Rather than tearing our minds apart trying to figure out how Wally can avoid being shot in the back of the head yet run right into a sword I think it's safe to assume that this was a case of a writer looking for a way to do something "cool" and thus forgot that the Speed Force > anything anyone else can do. Ever.

    No, I think it was a case of a writer trying to do something "cool" by showing that a seemingly invincible character is still more or less human and can get fucked up by a villain once in awhile.

    Bad Karma on
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  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    But all I hear about the flashes is that when they are "flashin" around they see everything at a fairly normal rate, thus it's almost impossible to hit them. It just seems very "off" that Wally wouldn't run around deathstroke see the sword and go "huh a sword" and stop on a dime like I heard a million times during the hero tourny.

    Caveman Paws on
  • Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    But all I hear about the flashes is that when they are "flashin" around they see everything at a fairly normal rate, thus it's almost impossible to hit them. It just seems very "off" that Wally wouldn't run around deathstroke see the sword and go "huh a sword" and stop on a dime like I heard a million times during the hero tourny.

    Well Caveman I don't know..maybe Wally had a fucking "oh shit" moment. Let's find Brad Meltzer's number and ask him.

    Bad Karma on
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  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    But surely you must know! You have the flashes pic in your signature area! You responded to my noobish plea for a cause to this folly!

    *breaks down, enters rehab, gains perspective,etc*

    Right so this Captain Nazi guy, what's his deal? Is he even a real Captain? I think not.

    Caveman Paws on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    Apparantly, Taskmaster has Batman's fighting style too from the JLA/Avengers crossover.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Apparantly, Taskmaster has Batman's fighting style too from the JLA/Avengers crossover.

    I believe Deathstroke has fought Bats to a stalemate, a la Bats vs. Cap. To me, this would be a battle of attrition, which would favor Deathstroke.

    Bad Karma on
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  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Taskmaster doesn't limit himself to one style, least of all when the style he's using isn't working.

    robosagogo on
  • VapidVapid Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what it looks like to me:

    Bats Cave benefits Deathstroke more than Taskmaster, because Deathstroke is more familiar with bats. This counters Taskmasters Marvel equipment-producing machine.

    Deathstroke has super reflexes and slighlty super strength which counters Taskmasters copy-cat abilty.

    Thus, as has been pointed out, it is definetly a battle of attrition and wits. I feel that Deathstroke is more clever than Taskmaster. Granted, I haven't read much of Taskmaster but if he is able to copy peoples moves it seems like he would have less need of cleverness on the scale of Deathstroke. Plus, Deathstroke has the healing thing, which, even if it only would recover lets say a twisted ankle slightly faster than normal, it should tip the scales in favor of Death stroke.

    Vapid on
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  • Romero ZombieRomero Zombie Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Wasn't aware of this till I checked out the Wiki on Deathstroke, but him and Taskmaster were designed by George Perez within a few months of eachother.

    My initial vote was for Deathstroke…but now I can't see a clear advantage either of these two have over the other.


    Definitely interested in seeing the outcome of this one.

    Romero Zombie on
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  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Bats Cave benefits Deathstroke more than Taskmaster, because Deathstroke is more familiar with bats. This counters Taskmasters Marvel equipment-producing machine.

    No. Batman's equipment is mostly non-lethal, and Deathstroke isn't nearly as proficient in the use of those items as Taskmaster is at flinging shields and shooting webs.

    Chances are that Deathstroke, who has probably never used anything like the Bat-arsenal, will only touch the stuff as a last resort.
    Deathstroke has super reflexes and slighlty super strength which counters Taskmasters copy-cat abilty.

    I don't see any kind of Yin/Yang relationship between reflexes, enhanced strength and Taskmaster's abilities where they perfectly counter each other. They're each better suited to different situations, but there's no balance.
    Thus, as has been pointed out, it is definetly a battle of attrition and wits. I feel that Deathstroke is more clever than Taskmaster. Granted, I haven't read much of Taskmaster but if he is able to copy peoples moves it seems like he would have less need of cleverness on the scale of Deathstroke. Plus, Deathstroke has the healing thing, which, even if it only would recover lets say a twisted ankle slightly faster than normal, it should tip the scales in favor of Death stroke.

    Have you considered the possibility that a person with a photographic memory might be smarter than average, especially one who has used his memory to well versed in everything from martial arts and munitions to playing the piano and cooking gourmet meals?

    And the key to outwitting someone is being able to predict their actions, and unfortunately it's very hard to predict what a composite of hundreds to thousands of the most varied range of fighters imaginable will do next.

    robosagogo on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    Taskmaster knows every single fighting school that is on record. Plus the styles of the majority of Marvel characters(and Batman), in double time. Plus he's got the damn energy projector, which he can use as a billy club, shield, webbing, etc.

    I don't think that Deathstroke can be prepared to fend off against a Billy-club attack followed by a Shield attack followed by a webbing attack.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Taskmaster's power doesn't make him smarter. He just has an eidetic memory on crack. He may know stuff, but it doesn't sharpen his wits any.

    Conditional_Axe on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Taskmaster's power doesn't make him smarter. He just has an eidetic memory on crack. He may know stuff, but it doesn't sharpen his wits any.
    Taskmaster doesn't have powers. Rather, he's a human with a remarkable mind and body.

    And yeah, I think learning makes you smarter.

    robosagogo on
  • SlagmireSlagmire Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Broken pics FTL... Here's Tombstone

    Tombstone.jpg

    EDIT: Some of these rules are bullshit. Tombstone shouldn't be winning over a super-genius ape, not even getting close.

    Slagmire on
  • Doctor DoomDoctor Doom Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    The rules are secondary, if people would use their brains.

    Doctor Doom on
  • SlagmireSlagmire Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    The rules are secondary, if people would use their brains.

    I'm not saying he still couldn't win it - he's still a super-strong primate in a cage. I'm just saying... wait a second. I thought Tombstone was also a zombie. Perhaps that was just in the Spider-Man cartoon. Still, Grodd falls victim to rules... even if they are secondary.

    Slagmire on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Just how strong is Gorilla Grodd?

    Because super-strong for a Gorilla has to be like super-duper strong for a human.

    robosagogo on
  • SlagmireSlagmire Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Just how strong is Gorilla Grodd?

    Because super-strong for a Gorilla has to be like super-duper strong for a human.

    He's got the strength of a bear, that's got the strength of two bears! Seriously though, I think it's on par with Tombstone's... he's just gotta get past that super endurance.

    Slagmire on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Grodd could probably snap Tombstone's neck with his big hands. Tough skin isn't invulnerability, and I'm betting it's only good at stopping blunt force and piercing attacks.

    robosagogo on
  • awesome_andyawesome_andy Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Problem with Taskmaster is he like to talk, Alot.
    Every time I've seen him fight someone he always starts in with the "I can copy anyone's moves so prepare for an asskicking."
    And I think the Taskmaster from MK was a different one since the mask was removed and the guy looked like he was in his twenties.
    I've seen Grundy go down by grabbing an electric fence(Dark Victory) So Omega Reds fancy coils could knock him out. BUt I still think Grundy would break him in two.
    Tombstone is cool and all but he's fighting a psychic monkey in a cage.
    I see Blob getting his eyes skewered by paper clips.

    awesome_andy on
  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    crossposted from voting thread RE: Gentleman Ghost

    If he's REALLY a ghost, and I dunno if he is, he could possess Absorbing Man, and cause him to absorb the properties of oxygen, and dissipate into the airstream. the air would carry out of the canyon before he could reassemble, and he would be disqualified. Pretty neat, huh?

    Kuribo's Shoe on
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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    taskmaster.jpg

    I like that picture bestest.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    It's still early yet (like seven votes early) but Taskmaster has the lead. Can't wait for Scooters recount, if it isn't counted by Scooter I don't consider it a pre-offical count!

    Caveman Paws on
  • tsplittertsplitter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    i think taskmaster could go far in this tournament for the sole fact he can do the shield to the face technique.

    tsplitter on
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  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Grodd is much, much stronger and smarter than Tombstone.

    Spectre-x on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    It's still early yet (like seven votes early) but Taskmaster has the lead. Can't wait for Scooters recount, if it isn't counted by Scooter I don't consider it a pre-offical count!

    I feel so <3'd

    Scooter on
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