What happens when a CEO of ubisoft or square enix or capcom decides that paycheck is enough that all future titles are exclusive to one platform for a 5 year period or some bullshit.
As long as it's on PC, meh? Between all the launchers that are on my desktop, what's one more as long as it's not surreptitiously using my system to mine bitcoins (or whatever) or pulling my data for third-parties.
Epics Launcher is doing this. It’s mining your PC for any information on Unity and your Steam account and sending it to Epic constantly.
Not to mention they’re owned 49% by Tencent. Wouldn’t like to think what will happen to your personal and financial details when they manage to buy that last 2%.
Aside from the localconfig.vdf file, what else is it pulling? I'm just going by the stuff in this article, but it really doesn't sound nearly as bad as some are making it out to be.
It’s literally using your machine to spy on their competitors.
So basically what the PCGamer article reported on. Got it. I'll repeat the end of my previous post with a slight caveat: it doesn't sound nearly as bad (to me, at least) as some are making it out to be.
My primary concern on top of it is they are 49% owned by a Chinese company. If they’re already okay doing this, I don’t want my personal or financial details anywhere near a Chinese company already spying to this degree.
As of this moment, that's not anywhere near the top of my concern list. Once we cross that last 2% threshold...well, we'll cross that bridge if we get there.
Sure. Once they cross that final 2% then they’ve got your details. Deleting your account then is too late.
I know this is going a fair bit afield from Steam, so feel free to move this to PM, but after seeing Undead Scottsman's post: what, exactly, is bad about Tencent? I know they've done some shady things with their AV benchmarking shenanigans...but I haven't seen anything overly nefarious from their end. But, at the same time, I haven't exactly been following them that rigorously.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Yeah I think I’m done with this now anyway. I deleted my account so I’ve got no investment here. I’ll just shut up about it.
Tencent are also, on some level, tied to the Chinese government. Which, depending on your job and family situation, could mean nothing or could potentially mean something very important.
"People" with security clearances play video games, too
Wasn't Ten Cent supposed to be participating in Sesame Credit?
*snip*
Huh...I'd forgotten about EC since Dan Floyd left and Will Overgard was fired. Yeah, I can see how that'd put a bad taste of the company in anybody's mind (even those not living in China).
Also things I'd forgotten: Tencent is the parent company of Riot Games. Not related to the whole Sesame Credit stuff...but yeah, in that case, the personal details ship sailed a LOOOOOONG time ago.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Maybe it's just that the main person that was pushing it was jim sterling going out and specifically dredging the depths of steam for shovelware to strawman, but I never really understood why "asset flips" (hate that term) are such a huge and pressing deal. Sure discoverability for some D-tier indie game probably got hurt in the process of tuning the alorithms, but in my experience you really aren't seeing that much of it (maybe like 1-2 per discovery queue) unless you've already dragged your profile into the mud by seeking it out, like jim. Or pixie.
Or specifically, why it's something that steam is uniquely responsible for, as opposed to the trash that is 99% of the app store or whatever the android equivalent is
Unless people were somehow seriously going through the whole, unfiltered new release list, I guess?
What happens when a CEO of ubisoft or square enix or capcom decides that paycheck is enough that all future titles are exclusive to one platform for a 5 year period or some bullshit.
As long as it's on PC, meh? Between all the launchers that are on my desktop, what's one more as long as it's not surreptitiously using my system to mine bitcoins (or whatever) or pulling my data for third-parties.
Epics Launcher is doing this. It’s mining your PC for any information on Unity and your Steam account and sending it to Epic constantly.
Not to mention they’re owned 49% by Tencent. Wouldn’t like to think what will happen to your personal and financial details when they manage to buy that last 2%.
Aside from the localconfig.vdf file, what else is it pulling? I'm just going by the stuff in this article, but it really doesn't sound nearly as bad as some are making it out to be.
It’s literally using your machine to spy on their competitors.
So basically what the PCGamer article reported on. Got it. I'll repeat the end of my previous post with a slight caveat: it doesn't sound nearly as bad (to me, at least) as some are making it out to be.
My primary concern on top of it is they are 49% owned by a Chinese company. If they’re already okay doing this, I don’t want my personal or financial details anywhere near a Chinese company already spying to this degree.
Uh... you may want to reconsider what you're trying to say, and what it looks like you're trying to say, because on the surface level these are some xenophobic-ass statements.
It's not like strong ties between large Chinese companies and the Chinese government are exactly a secret. Given that the Chinese government is one of the most Orwellian and authoritarian on the planet, it takes a pretty pessimistic reading of Loki's post to go from privacy concerns to racism.
I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
Xbox - PearlBlueS0ul, Steam
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
"My data is probably already out there, so whatever." is a frightening statement.
Not singling you out, because I have a feeling you're probably in the majority on that one.
Not so much "so whatever" and more "can't stop that particular set of details from getting out since it's already out." Past events are past, all I can do at this point is what I'm going to do in the future when certain situations present themselves (like, say, a situation where Tencent buys the controlling share of Epic).
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
Maybe it's just that the main person that was pushing it was jim sterling going out and specifically dredging the depths of steam for shovelware to strawman, but I never really understood why "asset flips" (hate that term) are such a huge and pressing deal. Sure discoverability for some D-tier indie game probably got hurt in the process of tuning the alorithms, but in my experience you really aren't seeing that much of it (maybe like 1-2 per discovery queue) unless you've already dragged your profile into the mud by seeking it out, like jim. Or pixie.
Or specifically, why it's something that steam is uniquely responsible for, as opposed to the trash that is 99% of the app store or whatever the android equivalent is
Unless people were somehow seriously going through the whole, unfiltered new release list, I guess?
App stores should also be better curated for shovelware and similar. I would love that.
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drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
A member from another forum I hang around, with far higher technical knowledge than I will ever have, checked this on his PC. He found out that the Epic Launcher would look for files once every 1 minute. Within a time frame of just 4 minutes, the launcher performed more than 2 milion actions:
Most if those actions were either data deliveries or reads of files which would include the "Steam" key word. That included files from a game he is planning to release on Steam or files from the web browser in case he had previously visited Steam.
Self quoting myself to give some further detail since the guy (who turned out to be a profesional soft developer) gave away some additional data this afternoon about his tests:
Within the first 30 seconds after loading, the Epic client executed more than 80,000 processes on his laptop. That included reading data from his Steam installation, like saved games or the friendlist even if he had added no friends on the Epic client or had not given permission to import contacts from his Steam friendlist. As a reference, he mentioned that Steam, GOG or Uplay clients when loading would not execute more than 10.000 proceses on his laptop within the same time frame.
File reads repeat every 1 minute. It does not matter wherever you have any games installed on a particular unit or hard drive or not, the Epic client will access the drive to search what it is inside. In this guy's case, it collected info from some projects he is working on that included the "Steam" word somewhere within their code:
The client also searchs for information related to Unity. You know, Unreal Engine's rival:
The client sends data packets continuously. Most of them are just simple pings in order to check the Internet connection. There are bigger data packets that are sent every minute but he is not sure yet about what their content is:
I actually wonder how long that's been going. Like, before the game store update. Since I've been using the Launcher to dick around in Unreal Engine 4 long before that.
I feel like we've had this conversation before regarding asset flips. Regardless,
1. Severity - You're making a mistake of treating asset flips like they're a single solitary issue, and judging them based on that, and not one piece of a greater whole regarding quickly shat-out games designed to exploint Steam's systems for money. Sometimes they're original, if exceptionally poorly made, content. Sometimes they're achievement famring games, and sometimes they're basically the same game released five times in a row as if they were a series of games. I think Valve called all of these "Fake Games"
2. Valve's culpability - A lack of serious curation coupled with an easy to exploit card system feeding money into otherwise low-sales games is why things like asset flips became an issue. Valve has since taken steps to address this, but we're talking about something they did less than a year ago and it doesn't eliminate the problem.
3. Yeah there's a lot of trash on the apple store. That doesn't really have anything to do with Steam and things the Epic Store could do to go "Look how much better we are than Steam!"
The info of mine that EGS has is the same that was on the PSN during their hack, or equifax during their hack, or elsevier during their fiasco, and the inevitable Steam/battlenet/ubisoft/origin hack.
What happens when a CEO of ubisoft or square enix or capcom decides that paycheck is enough that all future titles are exclusive to one platform for a 5 year period or some bullshit.
As long as it's on PC, meh? Between all the launchers that are on my desktop, what's one more as long as it's not surreptitiously using my system to mine bitcoins (or whatever) or pulling my data for third-parties.
Epics Launcher is doing this. It’s mining your PC for any information on Unity and your Steam account and sending it to Epic constantly.
Not to mention they’re owned 49% by Tencent. Wouldn’t like to think what will happen to your personal and financial details when they manage to buy that last 2%.
Aside from the localconfig.vdf file, what else is it pulling? I'm just going by the stuff in this article, but it really doesn't sound nearly as bad as some are making it out to be.
It’s literally using your machine to spy on their competitors.
So basically what the PCGamer article reported on. Got it. I'll repeat the end of my previous post with a slight caveat: it doesn't sound nearly as bad (to me, at least) as some are making it out to be.
My primary concern on top of it is they are 49% owned by a Chinese company. If they’re already okay doing this, I don’t want my personal or financial details anywhere near a Chinese company already spying to this degree.
Uh... you may want to reconsider what you're trying to say, and what it looks like you're trying to say, because on the surface level these are some xenophobic-ass statements.
It's not like strong ties between large Chinese companies and the Chinese government are exactly a secret. Given that the Chinese government is one of the most Orwellian and authoritarian on the planet, it takes a pretty pessimistic reading of Loki's post to go from privacy concerns to racism.
I don't disagree, but there's a difference between not being favor of what the chinese government does and not being in favor of something because it's Chinese, which is not an uncommon sentiment I'm afraid. There's a reason I said what he said sounded xenophobic rather than saying he was being xenophobic.
Maybe I've just been dealing with dog whistlers for too long to let that one go by without clarification.
I feel like we've had this conversation before regarding asset flips. Regardless,
1. Severity - You're making a mistake of treating asset flips like they're a single solitary issue, and judging them based on that, and not one piece of a greater whole regarding quickly shat-out games designed to exploint Steam's systems for money. Sometimes they're original, if exceptionally poorly made, content. Sometimes they're achievement famring games, and sometimes they're basically the same game released five times in a row as if they were a series of games. I think Valve called all of these "Fake Games"
2. Valve's culpability - A lack of serious curation coupled with an easy to exploit card system feeding money into otherwise low-sales games is why things like asset flips became an issue. Valve has since taken steps to address this, but we're talking about something they did less than a year ago and it doesn't eliminate the problem.
3. Yeah there's a lot of trash on the apple store. That doesn't really have anything to do with Steam and things the Epic Store could do to go "Look how much better we are than Steam!"
That article is kind of bullshit. They don't really establish what 'crappy' actually means.
"We'll have a quality standard that doesn't accept crappy games," he said. "We'll accept reasonably good quality games, of any scale, whether small indie games to huge triple-A games, and we'll take everything up to, like, an R-rated movie or an M-rated game. A GTA game would be fine to us, but Epic's not going to distribute porn games or bloatware or asset flips, or any sort of thing that's meant to shock players. The PC's an open platform and if we don't distribute it in our store you can still reach consumers directly."
What the actual fuck does 'reasonably good quality' even mean? What is reasonably good? Are walking simulators reasonably good? What about a puzzle game that's exactly like every other fucking puzzle game? Are GameMaker games reasonably good? Define your motherfucking terms!
And does bloatware cover the latest hotshit release that takes 100GB to download?
And would a game with a surprising, but unpopular ending, one designed to shock people, count as a game designed to shock people? Or is that only for games with gore in them? And if so, does that also mean no more horror/survival games with graphic depictions of bloody death will not be allowed?
Fuck that noise, Sweeney. Define your terms you lump of PR effluvium.
He's obviously talking about asset flips and such, don't be obtuse.
I'm also thinking he's referring to Hatred and Rape Day with the whole games "meant to shock" thing. But that's me making assumptions and putting specific examples in his mouth. I understand why he's not calling out specific games, but I'm kinda with Santa on preferring that some of his nebulous references get a little more concrete.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
"Oh I don't browse for games on steam and the apple app store sucks too" are terrible points. Solipsism is not a compelling argument. Steam offered a much better experience before greenlight, and deffo much better before they stopped caring. At least to the not insignificant number of people that like to browse.
Discoverability is a thing that exists and is relevant and good for all the parties involved, regardless of you hating Sterling. That's why Nintendo (of all companies!) makes the Nindies videos and a lot of people care about them. Not that long ago we had to study the P's of marketing at college, and they're still valid even at this digital age. There's a reason one of them is Place. It was vital for brick and mortar, it's vital for digital. Same goes for restauranteurs and the old "Location, location, location" mantra.
We always need to remember that the market dynamics are not just about YOU, or me or even us. A good store is good for buyers and suppliers. The fight for the developers is probably just as important. Epic is fucking up the PR battle at the consumer side, that's for sure, but they're doing a much better job on the game makers' front.
I do agree that buying exclusivities is not consumer-friendly, and I wish Epic wouldn't do that.
I wouldn't even mind the exclusivity if
A. It wasn't blatantly obvious they're taking a lot games that were about to be on Steam and luring then away at the last moment. (Ashen and Metro come to mind.). I'm more okay with games that were not announced on Steam being made exclusive and
B. They had come out of the gate with something more than "Use our store because we're buying exclusivity rights to games you were already planning on buying, and maybe the devs you like see a few bucks if there isn't a publisher in the way."
The exclusive situation isn't even all bad! Like, take a look at Journey. It's an older game, but still relevant today IMO. Epic apparently financed it coming to the PC; it wouldn't be on ANY pc platform if not for Epic. That's GREAT. That's exactly the kind of thing I'd love to see out of Epic: making opportunities where there were none before. Pushing the industry and marketplace further.
He's obviously talking about asset flips and such, don't be obtuse.
THEN SAY ONLY THAT! Sweeney used far too many words to describe different things just to shit on Steam (e.g. porn games). He ticked off a list of things gamers who dislike Steam's curation want to hear and offered no clarification. Or the article writer, who has a pretty clear opinion on Epic's intent, never bothered to follow up with the clearly obvious question. Or the writer indefensibly parroted PR hype.
Don't get me wrong I love competition and Steam really needs competitors but I'm with Pixie, fuck exclusivity. All exclusivity means is we see shittier sale prices and games stay at full price longer. This is especially true of epic as they aren't handing out third party keys to online retailers.
But without exclusivity, people tend to stick with the platform they have an already established presence on. Without a need to move over, people just won't. I've seen that behavior over and over again with Origin, Windows Store, Uplay, whatever.
I mean, sure, it sucks as a consumer...but to develop a platform, exclusives are kinda needed. Sure, you can toss in bundled extras to try to incentivise people to your platform (the GOG method), but it all comes back around to people still leaving their already developed library and community.
Want me to switch over? Build a better store. Don't do it by trying to strongarm me with exclusives.
I've heard this before (and not just in relation to Steam competitors). Define what would make "a better store," please. Because that's always been the rub: people say "build a better store" but never specify what they mean by that requirement.
Things that would get me to consider a non-Steam store:
1. Mandatory free demos of every game (like XBLA had on 360)
2. Rewards program like Nintendo has for digital purchases
3. Curated storefront (humans in the loop)
4. Moderated tags so that searching by tags is worth a damn (humans in the loop)
5. Some sort of "Can You Run It"-esque functionality to go with the hardware survey
6. Features Steam already has like integrated community-written guides and cross-game friends list
7. The ability to buy without giving up my credit card info (I don't buy via CC on any console or Steam)
jclast on
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Maybe it's just that the main person that was pushing it was jim sterling going out and specifically dredging the depths of steam for shovelware to strawman, but I never really understood why "asset flips" (hate that term) are such a huge and pressing deal. Sure discoverability for some D-tier indie game probably got hurt in the process of tuning the alorithms, but in my experience you really aren't seeing that much of it (maybe like 1-2 per discovery queue) unless you've already dragged your profile into the mud by seeking it out, like jim. Or pixie.
Or specifically, why it's something that steam is uniquely responsible for, as opposed to the trash that is 99% of the app store or whatever the android equivalent is
Unless people were somehow seriously going through the whole, unfiltered new release list, I guess?
Because as a customer I'd like a store that's full of things somebody thought other people might want to conceivably buy. I like Steam. The client works. The sales are nice. The community here is top-notch. But I also miss shopping at GameStop and Best Buy and looking at the games that people thought would actually sell.
Infinite shelves might mean infinite choices, but it doesn't mean infinite quality. I'd rather have a curated experience even if it means that I miss a game and it gets brought to Steam later.
That all being said, "asset flips" are a great way to learn. They seem to be the "Hello, World" of games development. And they should stay there. But I don't try to get paid to learn a new language, and it's frankly disgusting that people are out there learning the ropes and then thinking "Well, I can put it on Steam for cheap and some dope will buy it on sale for a quarter!" Fuck that. Fight for shelf space. Put out a quality product. Impress a human somewhere to get on the front page or the discovery queue or whatever.
He's obviously talking about asset flips and such, don't be obtuse.
THEN SAY ONLY THAT! Sweeney used far too many words to describe different things just to shit on Steam (e.g. porn games). He ticked off a list of things gamers who dislike Steam's curation want to hear and offered no clarification. Or the article writer, who has a pretty clear opinion on Epic's intent, never bothered to follow up with the clearly obvious question. Or the writer indefensibly parroted PR hype.
I am not being obtuse. Sweeney is.
To be fair, what he's saying is exactly what I want. Subjective judgement from a shopkeeper. I can't pin down what I think ought to count as a quality game, but I know it (and the opposite) when I see them.
I'd love for Steam to put humans back in the loop and institute a similar policy even if they put games up that aren't for me, it'd be nice to know that every title up there a legit human looked at it and though "this is a quality product that I'm proud to sell in our store."
Maybe it's just that the main person that was pushing it was jim sterling going out and specifically dredging the depths of steam for shovelware to strawman, but I never really understood why "asset flips" (hate that term) are such a huge and pressing deal. Sure discoverability for some D-tier indie game probably got hurt in the process of tuning the alorithms, but in my experience you really aren't seeing that much of it (maybe like 1-2 per discovery queue) unless you've already dragged your profile into the mud by seeking it out, like jim. Or pixie.
Or specifically, why it's something that steam is uniquely responsible for, as opposed to the trash that is 99% of the app store or whatever the android equivalent is
Unless people were somehow seriously going through the whole, unfiltered new release list, I guess?
Because as a customer I'd like a store that's full of things somebody thought other people might want to conceivably buy. I like Steam. The client works. The sales are nice. The community here is top-notch. But I also miss shopping at GameStop and Best Buy and looking at the games that people thought would actually sell.
Infinite shelves might mean infinite choices, but it doesn't mean infinite quality. I'd rather have a curated experience even if it means that I miss a game and it gets brought to Steam later.
That all being said, "asset flips" are a great way to learn. They seem to be the "Hello, World" of games development. And they should stay there. But I don't try to get paid to learn a new language, and it's frankly disgusting that people are out there learning the ropes and then thinking "Well, I can put it on Steam for cheap and some dope will buy it on sale for a quarter!" Fuck that. Fight for shelf space. Put out a quality product. Impress a human somewhere to get on the front page or the discovery queue or whatever.
If you're not planning on releasing your game, then it's not really a "flip," so I have no beef with people using preexisting assets to learn. Or people who use them to fill in the gaps of their product, or use them as the base of something different, really.
Metro: Exodus apparently sold 2.5x the amount on the Epic store than Metro: Last Light did on Steam.
A lot of people are really keen to see Steam taken down a peg.
That last line seems like a pretty big inference to make on thin sustenance. Also:
And Exodus has had twice the amount of time for the market to grow than Last Light did vs 2033. It's hard to make comparisons without stable points of reference, and of course we can say it probably hasn't been a huge detriment considering the continued growth trend, but it's also a thing that's nice to say for PR without really saying anything about relative performance financially (the moneyhat probably makes that irrelevant, though).
He's obviously talking about asset flips and such, don't be obtuse.
THEN SAY ONLY THAT! Sweeney used far too many words to describe different things just to shit on Steam (e.g. porn games). He ticked off a list of things gamers who dislike Steam's curation want to hear and offered no clarification. Or the article writer, who has a pretty clear opinion on Epic's intent, never bothered to follow up with the clearly obvious question. Or the writer indefensibly parroted PR hype.
I am not being obtuse. Sweeney is.
He did say that, you're just so wrapped up in having Epic be a villain that even when they're doing a thing you've been saying you want for years you have to pretend you don't understand it so you can be mad at it, too.
It’s not much of a shift from ‘spy on our competitors’ to ‘spy on the user’. Since it’s gathering friends list data without permission as well as information on Steam and Inity in general, that’s sorta happening already.
If Epic needs to see what's on your computer that much, it makes me wonder just what they're doing with the data and how well it's being secured, not to mention just where it's all going and where it's stored.
Also, if they go onstage at PAX East and announce Borderlands 3 as an Epic exclusive, I hope they get booed off the fucking stage. Fuck Epic and fuck exclusivity deals. I mean, that's the only thing they have over there- money. And money does not a good storefront make.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
If Epic needs to see what's on your computer that much, it makes me wonder just what they're doing with the data and how well it's being secured, not to mention just where it's all going and where it's stored.
Also, if they go onstage at PAX East and announce Borderlands 3 as an Epic exclusive, I hope they get booed off the fucking stage. Fuck Epic and fuck exclusivity deals. I mean, that's the only thing they have over there- money. And money does not a good storefront make.
The amount of money they’re throwing around has to start being a problem even with Fortnite money. Snapshot was given enough money to fund their 20-25 employee studio for a couple of years, and enough that every backer and pre order could be refunded and they’d still be in the black. Guessing that’s in the millions range, depending on what their pay is like.
Metro: Exodus apparently sold 2.5x the amount on the Epic store than Metro: Last Light did on Steam.
A lot of people are really keen to see Steam taken down a peg.
That last line seems like a pretty big inference to make on thin sustenance.
The idea that a game won't sell because it's on the Epic Store doesn't make sense when you consider a how many people don't like steam. People are pretty into the idea of an alternative.
Undead Scottsman on
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
It’s not much of a shift from ‘spy on our competitors’ to ‘spy on the user’. Since it’s gathering friends list data without permission as well as information on Steam and Inity in general, that’s sorta happening already.
Basically, yeah. I figure if they aren't spying on the users now, they soon will be.
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I know this is going a fair bit afield from Steam, so feel free to move this to PM, but after seeing Undead Scottsman's post: what, exactly, is bad about Tencent? I know they've done some shady things with their AV benchmarking shenanigans...but I haven't seen anything overly nefarious from their end. But, at the same time, I haven't exactly been following them that rigorously.
EDIT: Like that goes very beyond gaming, but it's also something that scares the shit out of me.
"People" with security clearances play video games, too
Huh...I'd forgotten about EC since Dan Floyd left and Will Overgard was fired. Yeah, I can see how that'd put a bad taste of the company in anybody's mind (even those not living in China).
Also things I'd forgotten: Tencent is the parent company of Riot Games. Not related to the whole Sesame Credit stuff...but yeah, in that case, the personal details ship sailed a LOOOOOONG time ago.
Not singling you out, because I have a feeling you're probably in the majority on that one.
Or specifically, why it's something that steam is uniquely responsible for, as opposed to the trash that is 99% of the app store or whatever the android equivalent is
Unless people were somehow seriously going through the whole, unfiltered new release list, I guess?
It's not like strong ties between large Chinese companies and the Chinese government are exactly a secret. Given that the Chinese government is one of the most Orwellian and authoritarian on the planet, it takes a pretty pessimistic reading of Loki's post to go from privacy concerns to racism.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Not so much "so whatever" and more "can't stop that particular set of details from getting out since it's already out." Past events are past, all I can do at this point is what I'm going to do in the future when certain situations present themselves (like, say, a situation where Tencent buys the controlling share of Epic).
App stores should also be better curated for shovelware and similar. I would love that.
I actually wonder how long that's been going. Like, before the game store update. Since I've been using the Launcher to dick around in Unreal Engine 4 long before that.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
1. Severity - You're making a mistake of treating asset flips like they're a single solitary issue, and judging them based on that, and not one piece of a greater whole regarding quickly shat-out games designed to exploint Steam's systems for money. Sometimes they're original, if exceptionally poorly made, content. Sometimes they're achievement famring games, and sometimes they're basically the same game released five times in a row as if they were a series of games. I think Valve called all of these "Fake Games"
2. Valve's culpability - A lack of serious curation coupled with an easy to exploit card system feeding money into otherwise low-sales games is why things like asset flips became an issue. Valve has since taken steps to address this, but we're talking about something they did less than a year ago and it doesn't eliminate the problem.
3. Yeah there's a lot of trash on the apple store. That doesn't really have anything to do with Steam and things the Epic Store could do to go "Look how much better we are than Steam!"
Edit: Oh hey, look at that
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-epic-store-wont-accept-crappy-games-says-ceo-tim-sweeney/
I don't disagree, but there's a difference between not being favor of what the chinese government does and not being in favor of something because it's Chinese, which is not an uncommon sentiment I'm afraid. There's a reason I said what he said sounded xenophobic rather than saying he was being xenophobic.
Maybe I've just been dealing with dog whistlers for too long to let that one go by without clarification.
That article is kind of bullshit. They don't really establish what 'crappy' actually means.
What the actual fuck does 'reasonably good quality' even mean? What is reasonably good? Are walking simulators reasonably good? What about a puzzle game that's exactly like every other fucking puzzle game? Are GameMaker games reasonably good? Define your motherfucking terms!
And does bloatware cover the latest hotshit release that takes 100GB to download?
And would a game with a surprising, but unpopular ending, one designed to shock people, count as a game designed to shock people? Or is that only for games with gore in them? And if so, does that also mean no more horror/survival games with graphic depictions of bloody death will not be allowed?
Fuck that noise, Sweeney. Define your terms you lump of PR effluvium.
I'm also thinking he's referring to Hatred and Rape Day with the whole games "meant to shock" thing. But that's me making assumptions and putting specific examples in his mouth. I understand why he's not calling out specific games, but I'm kinda with Santa on preferring that some of his nebulous references get a little more concrete.
Discoverability is a thing that exists and is relevant and good for all the parties involved, regardless of you hating Sterling. That's why Nintendo (of all companies!) makes the Nindies videos and a lot of people care about them. Not that long ago we had to study the P's of marketing at college, and they're still valid even at this digital age. There's a reason one of them is Place. It was vital for brick and mortar, it's vital for digital. Same goes for restauranteurs and the old "Location, location, location" mantra.
We always need to remember that the market dynamics are not just about YOU, or me or even us. A good store is good for buyers and suppliers. The fight for the developers is probably just as important. Epic is fucking up the PR battle at the consumer side, that's for sure, but they're doing a much better job on the game makers' front.
I do agree that buying exclusivities is not consumer-friendly, and I wish Epic wouldn't do that.
A. It wasn't blatantly obvious they're taking a lot games that were about to be on Steam and luring then away at the last moment. (Ashen and Metro come to mind.). I'm more okay with games that were not announced on Steam being made exclusive and
B. They had come out of the gate with something more than "Use our store because we're buying exclusivity rights to games you were already planning on buying, and maybe the devs you like see a few bucks if there isn't a publisher in the way."
The exclusive situation isn't even all bad! Like, take a look at Journey. It's an older game, but still relevant today IMO. Epic apparently financed it coming to the PC; it wouldn't be on ANY pc platform if not for Epic. That's GREAT. That's exactly the kind of thing I'd love to see out of Epic: making opportunities where there were none before. Pushing the industry and marketplace further.
THEN SAY ONLY THAT! Sweeney used far too many words to describe different things just to shit on Steam (e.g. porn games). He ticked off a list of things gamers who dislike Steam's curation want to hear and offered no clarification. Or the article writer, who has a pretty clear opinion on Epic's intent, never bothered to follow up with the clearly obvious question. Or the writer indefensibly parroted PR hype.
I am not being obtuse. Sweeney is.
But damn I'd pay for a Metroidvania collection. I don't care that many of them would be portable ports; I'm in.
Is it really fair to compare preorder numbers to after-launch sales numbers though?
Things that would get me to consider a non-Steam store:
1. Mandatory free demos of every game (like XBLA had on 360)
2. Rewards program like Nintendo has for digital purchases
3. Curated storefront (humans in the loop)
4. Moderated tags so that searching by tags is worth a damn (humans in the loop)
5. Some sort of "Can You Run It"-esque functionality to go with the hardware survey
6. Features Steam already has like integrated community-written guides and cross-game friends list
7. The ability to buy without giving up my credit card info (I don't buy via CC on any console or Steam)
Also Steam was takin pre orders too, and they were honoured. Did they count those in the numbers?
Because as a customer I'd like a store that's full of things somebody thought other people might want to conceivably buy. I like Steam. The client works. The sales are nice. The community here is top-notch. But I also miss shopping at GameStop and Best Buy and looking at the games that people thought would actually sell.
Infinite shelves might mean infinite choices, but it doesn't mean infinite quality. I'd rather have a curated experience even if it means that I miss a game and it gets brought to Steam later.
That all being said, "asset flips" are a great way to learn. They seem to be the "Hello, World" of games development. And they should stay there. But I don't try to get paid to learn a new language, and it's frankly disgusting that people are out there learning the ropes and then thinking "Well, I can put it on Steam for cheap and some dope will buy it on sale for a quarter!" Fuck that. Fight for shelf space. Put out a quality product. Impress a human somewhere to get on the front page or the discovery queue or whatever.
To be fair, what he's saying is exactly what I want. Subjective judgement from a shopkeeper. I can't pin down what I think ought to count as a quality game, but I know it (and the opposite) when I see them.
I'd love for Steam to put humans back in the loop and institute a similar policy even if they put games up that aren't for me, it'd be nice to know that every title up there a legit human looked at it and though "this is a quality product that I'm proud to sell in our store."
If you're not planning on releasing your game, then it's not really a "flip," so I have no beef with people using preexisting assets to learn. Or people who use them to fill in the gaps of their product, or use them as the base of something different, really.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I'm not saying all of my ideas are good, just that a store offering that would immediately get me to pay attention.
That last line seems like a pretty big inference to make on thin sustenance. Also:
And Exodus has had twice the amount of time for the market to grow than Last Light did vs 2033. It's hard to make comparisons without stable points of reference, and of course we can say it probably hasn't been a huge detriment considering the continued growth trend, but it's also a thing that's nice to say for PR without really saying anything about relative performance financially (the moneyhat probably makes that irrelevant, though).
It’s not much of a shift from ‘spy on our competitors’ to ‘spy on the user’. Since it’s gathering friends list data without permission as well as information on Steam and Inity in general, that’s sorta happening already.
Also, if they go onstage at PAX East and announce Borderlands 3 as an Epic exclusive, I hope they get booed off the fucking stage. Fuck Epic and fuck exclusivity deals. I mean, that's the only thing they have over there- money. And money does not a good storefront make.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
The amount of money they’re throwing around has to start being a problem even with Fortnite money. Snapshot was given enough money to fund their 20-25 employee studio for a couple of years, and enough that every backer and pre order could be refunded and they’d still be in the black. Guessing that’s in the millions range, depending on what their pay is like.
The idea that a game won't sell because it's on the Epic Store doesn't make sense when you consider a how many people don't like steam. People are pretty into the idea of an alternative.
The issue is by buying exclusives, Epic are trying to be a replacement. Alternative implies there’s a choice.
People don’t have an issue with an alternative. GoG is an alternative
Basically, yeah. I figure if they aren't spying on the users now, they soon will be.
I was responding to Soundplush's statement about one of my comments. I wasn't making a value judgment on what Epic was doing.