Sequel? I didn’t get any indication there would be a sequel. It pretty much definitively ended without much in the way of future story hooks IMO.
I'm sure it's being marketed as the first in a series
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
edited April 2019
Ok I was curious because like I said as far as I’m concerned the story is over
This is from an interview the author gave to the San Diego Truibune
The way the trilogy works is that it’s not a part one, part two, or part three. But each novel is the different eyewitness account. So, it’s as if you have three movies, instead of three sections in the movie. Each person’s testimony is going to be a whole novel.
This could be interesting in theory, but the first one was so unrelentingly bleak and miserable I’m gonna pass on any “sequels”.
knitdan on
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Started Black Leopard, Red Wolf. It feels almost Gene Wolfian in the way it combines the familiar and the unfamiliar. In the way it makes me feel like I’m missing something, like there’s a grand allegory below the surface that I’m too stupid to understand.
Or maybe it’s just that it’s set in a culture I’m wholly unfamiliar with.
just finished the first section and it's totally reminding me of gene wolf too
hmm I am not sure what to think about this book
setting it in a fantasy world based on african myths instead of european ones is waaaaaaay up my alley
the writing style is very interesting, also pretty mythic I think (more of a, this event took place and now this one) and hazy like gene wolf's books that I've read
there's a lot of graphic sexual violence and slavery and mutilation and assorted other terrible shit going down though, I don't know if I'll be up for the sequel
it's crazy polarizing in the goodreads reviews, a bunch of people saying they didn't finish it
I stopped at 250ish and am diving back in
There a lot more bestiality and general mutilation than I’m generally willing to tolerate
The writing is, however, very pretty
“Truth eats lies like an alligator eats the moon” as an example of the surreal, mythical prose
Apropos of nothing I am reminded that it's been twenty five years since Clive Barker wrote the second Book of the Art with no conclusion in sight, twenty since the first part of Galilee with no end in sight and half a dozen years since the third of a projected five books of the Abarat. His last book was apparently quite bad and possibly ghostwritten, and honestly it feels like those three stories will never be completed.
What I'm saying is, GRRM fans: you could have it so much worse.
I’ve always wondered what it must be like for authors in this situation, because I assume these content droughts are due to them being involved in other projects or just losing interest entirely.
I had a heavily greenstuffed warhammer orc army I was working on 10 years ago, built out and sculpted everything but only painted 4 or 5 before losing interest due to a variety of other factors. It would be really weird if people were constantly calling/emailing asking when orc 6 was going to be done, or whatever happened to the two headed ogre lord ally I had posted greenstuffs of, or whatever.
Edit: though it would obviously be a bit different if someone had commissioned the set and had paid me for the first few under the assumption they would be eventually getting a full army which is more the expectation when someone buys a book sold as the first of a trilogy or whatever and the story is unfinished.
With Barker I think it's a mixture of health issues, new projects taking his interest, a wide array of avenues into which he creates stuff (movies, TV, books, paintings, etc) and waning powers, judging from his more recent output. No one wants to write the crappy sequel to a great novel, not even the guy who wrote the great novel.
VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited April 2019
I personally find it difficult to be creative when I know exactly what's going to happen. I wonder if GRRM is feeling something similar now that he needs to wrap it up (doubly so now that it's one of the most valuable properties in the world).
I think the slowing down is probably due to lots of things. Age, the increasing complexity of the story that needs to be wrangled, other projects, the freedom to do whatever he wants that all that delicious money would have given him, the TV show outstripping him and blowing some surprises, a very real and relatable desire to frustrate people who treat him like a Game of Thrones content machine, etc.
Every writer does things a little differently. Some don't send book 1 off to the publisher until they've got book 4 in first draft, some will JJ Abrams it and not think past the end of whatever bit they're currently doing and trust to luck to tie things up later.
I think the slowing down is probably due to lots of things. Age, the increasing complexity of the story that needs to be wrangled, other projects, the freedom to do whatever he wants that all that delicious money would have given him, the TV show outstripping him and blowing some surprises, a very real and relatable desire to frustrate people who treat him like a Game of Thrones content machine, etc.
Every writer does things a little differently. Some don't send book 1 off to the publisher until they've got book 4 in first draft, some will JJ Abrams it and not think past the end of whatever bit they're currently doing and trust to luck to tie things up later.
He's entitled to write his books however he likes
I'm also entitled to stop caring after a certain point
I think the slowing down is probably due to lots of things. Age, the increasing complexity of the story that needs to be wrangled, other projects, the freedom to do whatever he wants that all that delicious money would have given him, the TV show outstripping him and blowing some surprises, a very real and relatable desire to frustrate people who treat him like a Game of Thrones content machine, etc.
Every writer does things a little differently. Some don't send book 1 off to the publisher until they've got book 4 in first draft, some will JJ Abrams it and not think past the end of whatever bit they're currently doing and trust to luck to tie things up later.
Judging from his comments on getting the last two ones out, he at least initially seemed to be having issues with structure within the novel format. Which is actually pretty common for a lot of long-running series of that sort. (Robert Jordan had similar issues)
As of now, who knows. Maybe he's just gotten frustrated, maybe the hype is so big he thinks he needs to get it perfect, maybe something else. We might even find out eventually.
I was kind of expecting it, but that's still a crushing blow. My favourite writer.
Well shit.
Was he sick or something? Or was this just a terminal case of the olds?
The latter.
He'd been having heart and pulmonary issues the last 3-4 years, but nothing acute or rapid onset, and they finally lost the fight.
He will be missed, Book of the New Sun was such a revelation for me in high school. Having come off reading Joyce and Dostoyevsky in honors classes, I stumbled upon something in the sci-fi/fantasy space with that depth and gravitas, so rewarding.
Umberto Eco and now Wolfe, my favorite writers of prose dense enough to be lethal weapons are starting to shuffle off this mortal coil.
Although with all the allegorical symbolism in Wolfe's oeuvre, I'd love to hear what kinda roundtable him, Tolkein, Lewis, and St. Paul could get into.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
I want there to just be a page I can go to where its a bunch of quotes from serious literature people explaining how their book isn't dirty sci-fi, just a novel (wasn't even intended as a pun, sorry) look at where the future could go, and how we might deal with it.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I want there to just be a page I can go to where its a bunch of quotes from serious literature people explaining how their book isn't dirty sci-fi, just a novel (wasn't even intended as a pun, sorry) look at where the future could go, and how we might deal with it.
Best response to that stupid quote was to point out Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, arguably the very first SF, is all about the responsibilities and rights of a new kind of person. It's not even something the genre has grown into, it is what the genre began with.
If you were going to start reading Wolfe I'd recommend starting with The Fifth Head of Cerberus, Soldier In The Mist or one of his short story collections, probably The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories.
The Fifth Head is a science fiction story and a tricksy book about identity.
Soldier in the Mist is a story about a soldier in ancient Greece with only a short term memory who writes the events of the day on a scroll, reading it anew every morning. The head injury that caused this memory loss also seems to let him see supernatural beings, though he doesn't seem to realise it, and instead casually mentions seeing a man with a club others seem to ignore, etc. This memory loss makes for a nice contrast with the eidetic memory of Severian, the protagonist of the Book of the New Sun. There are two sequels.
The Book of the New Sun is his most celebrated series, four books and a pendant written later, though the Long Sun and Short Sun series are linked as well. They're fabulous, rich, strange, confusing, complex stories that deepen with every re-reading.
The Wizard Knight is a duology about lots of stale fantasy ideas (magic swords, ogres, talking animals, dragons) that seem strange and new in his hands.
Castleview packs the entire Arthurian mythos into a small American town. Pandora, By Holly Hollander is a murder mystery. Free Live Free is a strange tale about losers coming together to answer a mysterious ad. The Castle In The Forest is a bleak fantasy story. There Are Doors is a love story about alternate realities. Peace is maybe his most opaque novel, though I've only read it once, and is about an old man remembering things. He might be dead.
His later novels are lesser but still labyrinthine in their mysteries, and his short story collections contain magnificent, perfectly polished jewels like The War Beneath The Tree.
Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
edited April 2019
Wrong thread.
Mojo_Jojo on
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I normally recommend Solider In the Mist as an intro to Wolfe, it's probably the best distillation of his style without diving into the deep end of the symbolism and reference pool, but still has the depth and felling of fulfillment when you finish.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
Knowing that I bounced off Book of the New Sun hard, but did not realize that Gene Wolfe had written anything else, what other book of his would you recommend? Would you still say Soldier in the Mist?
I read the first two books (bundled into one volume, but I think it was two books). I do not remember it well, but what I liked most was the use of language and some of the vivid imagery, like a duel with petals(?) And I believe I most liked the beginning part, before they go on the road.
I think I did not like the plot, characters, or plot obfuscation. I probably least liked the part that takes place in a prison with a person that maybe comes from some other reality(?)
I think I should try him again though, since he's so well regarded and does have this reputation of being intensely literary, which seems like it should be my jam.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I just finished reading Accelerando and man that was a weird book. Normally I find all the deep space super interesting, but with it being set as sort of tangential to the rest of what the book was exploring, the few times the author dropped big space words I had a really hard time figuring out what was going on. Otherwise I thought it was a really interesting book, and an interesting new look at the existential threats to baseline humans.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Knowing that I bounced off Book of the New Sun hard, but did not realize that Gene Wolfe had written anything else, what other book of his would you recommend? Would you still say Soldier in the Mist?
I read the first two books (bundled into one volume, but I think it was two books). I do not remember it well, but what I liked most was the use of language and some of the vivid imagery, like a duel with petals(?) And I believe I most liked the beginning part, before they go on the road.
I think I did not like the plot, characters, or plot obfuscation. I probably least liked the part that takes place in a prison with a person that maybe comes from some other reality(?)
I think I should try him again though, since he's so well regarded and does have this reputation of being intensely literary, which seems like it should be my jam.
He's written at least three dozen novels and short story collections. The complex plots never really go away no matter what the book is. Some things are there to be seen on a re-read or puzzled out via clues.
The most accessible Wolfe stories are probably the Fifth Head (though it's still complex and has one of his very best hidden twists) and the Soldier in the Mist (though again it's not simple and a smattering of classical/mythological knowldege is a help).
1982 says hello, asks if you would please credit when using ideas.
That last sentence tho. I, Robot anyone...?
Yeah, I was thinking Blade Runner as a big pop culture example (because he basically just summarized the main plot and it is a huge pop cultural touchstone), but there are works on basically the same theme dating back literal hundreds of years at this point.
Knowing that I bounced off Book of the New Sun hard, but did not realize that Gene Wolfe had written anything else, what other book of his would you recommend? Would you still say Soldier in the Mist?
I read the first two books (bundled into one volume, but I think it was two books). I do not remember it well, but what I liked most was the use of language and some of the vivid imagery, like a duel with petals(?) And I believe I most liked the beginning part, before they go on the road.
I think I did not like the plot, characters, or plot obfuscation. I probably least liked the part that takes place in a prison with a person that maybe comes from some other reality(?)
I think I should try him again though, since he's so well regarded and does have this reputation of being intensely literary, which seems like it should be my jam.
He's written at least three dozen novels and short story collections. The complex plots never really go away no matter what the book is. Some things are there to be seen on a re-read or puzzled out via clues.
The most accessible Wolfe stories are probably the Fifth Head (though it's still complex and has one of his very best hidden twists) and the Soldier in the Mist (though again it's not simple and a smattering of classical/mythological knowldege is a help).
to clarify: Fifth Head is about 30% hidden twists by weight, but ofc they can't all be the best.
So I am not a big sci fi guy really l, but I got the audiobook version of the Area X trilogy to listen to while commuting.
I don’t really have any brilliant insights into it, but I liked it overall, especially the first book. It actually reminded me a bit of 2001, in that you have these emotionally reserved scientist types encountering this mind-altering situation. I’m also a sucker for weird and mysterious settings that are allowed to stay a bit nebulous.
I was surprised at how negative the reviews were on goodreads and amazon — people really can’t figure out the characters’ personalities?
Anyway, as a palate cleanser that requires less attention while driving i’m now letting down the entire book thread by listening to schlocky tough guy Steven Konoly books.
Meanwhile my pile of nonfiction hard copy books looms ...
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
So I am not a big sci fi guy really l, but I got the audiobook version of the Area X trilogy to listen to while commuting.
I don’t really have any brilliant insights into it, but I liked it overall, especially the first book. It actually reminded me a bit of 2001, in that you have these emotionally reserved scientist types encountering this mind-altering situation. I’m also a sucker for weird and mysterious settings that are allowed to stay a bit nebulous.
I was surprised at how negative the reviews were on goodreads and amazon — people really can’t figure out the characters’ personalities?
Anyway, as a palate cleanser that requires less attention while driving i’m now letting down the entire book thread by listening to schlocky tough guy Steven Konoly books.
Meanwhile my pile of nonfiction hard copy books looms ...
If you liked that bit, you should try The City and The City.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
So I am not a big sci fi guy really l, but I got the audiobook version of the Area X trilogy to listen to while commuting.
I don’t really have any brilliant insights into it, but I liked it overall, especially the first book. It actually reminded me a bit of 2001, in that you have these emotionally reserved scientist types encountering this mind-altering situation. I’m also a sucker for weird and mysterious settings that are allowed to stay a bit nebulous.
I was surprised at how negative the reviews were on goodreads and amazon — people really can’t figure out the characters’ personalities?
Anyway, as a palate cleanser that requires less attention while driving i’m now letting down the entire book thread by listening to schlocky tough guy Steven Konoly books.
Meanwhile my pile of nonfiction hard copy books looms ...
You might get on okay with The Vorrh then. It does something similar, but far less competently.
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
So I am not a big sci fi guy really l, but I got the audiobook version of the Area X trilogy to listen to while commuting.
I don’t really have any brilliant insights into it, but I liked it overall, especially the first book. It actually reminded me a bit of 2001, in that you have these emotionally reserved scientist types encountering this mind-altering situation. I’m also a sucker for weird and mysterious settings that are allowed to stay a bit nebulous.
I was surprised at how negative the reviews were on goodreads and amazon — people really can’t figure out the characters’ personalities?
Anyway, as a palate cleanser that requires less attention while driving i’m now letting down the entire book thread by listening to schlocky tough guy Steven Konoly books.
Meanwhile my pile of nonfiction hard copy books looms ...
If you liked that bit, you should try The City and The City.
Awww yes
Desc you may like that
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Mojo I am giggling at “hey you might like this other book that does the same thing but badly”
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Posts
I'm sure it's being marketed as the first in a series
This is from an interview the author gave to the San Diego Truibune
This could be interesting in theory, but the first one was so unrelentingly bleak and miserable I’m gonna pass on any “sequels”.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
it's the first part of a trilogy
it seemed clear to me from the ending that the next book will be
I stopped at 250ish and am diving back in
There a lot more bestiality and general mutilation than I’m generally willing to tolerate
The writing is, however, very pretty
“Truth eats lies like an alligator eats the moon” as an example of the surreal, mythical prose
I’ve always wondered what it must be like for authors in this situation, because I assume these content droughts are due to them being involved in other projects or just losing interest entirely.
I had a heavily greenstuffed warhammer orc army I was working on 10 years ago, built out and sculpted everything but only painted 4 or 5 before losing interest due to a variety of other factors. It would be really weird if people were constantly calling/emailing asking when orc 6 was going to be done, or whatever happened to the two headed ogre lord ally I had posted greenstuffs of, or whatever.
Edit: though it would obviously be a bit different if someone had commissioned the set and had paid me for the first few under the assumption they would be eventually getting a full army which is more the expectation when someone buys a book sold as the first of a trilogy or whatever and the story is unfinished.
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Every writer does things a little differently. Some don't send book 1 off to the publisher until they've got book 4 in first draft, some will JJ Abrams it and not think past the end of whatever bit they're currently doing and trust to luck to tie things up later.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
it was interesting but felt like alot of setup for something else
He's entitled to write his books however he likes
I'm also entitled to stop caring after a certain point
Absolutely.
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Judging from his comments on getting the last two ones out, he at least initially seemed to be having issues with structure within the novel format. Which is actually pretty common for a lot of long-running series of that sort. (Robert Jordan had similar issues)
As of now, who knows. Maybe he's just gotten frustrated, maybe the hype is so big he thinks he needs to get it perfect, maybe something else. We might even find out eventually.
I was kind of expecting it, but that's still a crushing blow. My favourite writer.
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Well shit.
Was he sick or something? Or was this just a terminal case of the olds?
The latter.
He'd been having heart and pulmonary issues the last 3-4 years, but nothing acute or rapid onset, and they finally lost the fight.
He will be missed, Book of the New Sun was such a revelation for me in high school. Having come off reading Joyce and Dostoyevsky in honors classes, I stumbled upon something in the sci-fi/fantasy space with that depth and gravitas, so rewarding.
Umberto Eco and now Wolfe, my favorite writers of prose dense enough to be lethal weapons are starting to shuffle off this mortal coil.
Although with all the allegorical symbolism in Wolfe's oeuvre, I'd love to hear what kinda roundtable him, Tolkein, Lewis, and St. Paul could get into.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
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Now that is a tower of power.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
I want there to just be a page I can go to where its a bunch of quotes from serious literature people explaining how their book isn't dirty sci-fi, just a novel (wasn't even intended as a pun, sorry) look at where the future could go, and how we might deal with it.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
perhaps i should?
Best response to that stupid quote was to point out Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, arguably the very first SF, is all about the responsibilities and rights of a new kind of person. It's not even something the genre has grown into, it is what the genre began with.
He's a tough read but his prose is undeniably some of the best out there. His style is very reminiscent of Joyce.
This is probably up my alley then
One of my most common complaints about fantasy and sci fi is the quality of the writing
It’s either completely invisible, in which case forgettable
Or is just plain bad
The Fifth Head is a science fiction story and a tricksy book about identity.
Soldier in the Mist is a story about a soldier in ancient Greece with only a short term memory who writes the events of the day on a scroll, reading it anew every morning. The head injury that caused this memory loss also seems to let him see supernatural beings, though he doesn't seem to realise it, and instead casually mentions seeing a man with a club others seem to ignore, etc. This memory loss makes for a nice contrast with the eidetic memory of Severian, the protagonist of the Book of the New Sun. There are two sequels.
The Book of the New Sun is his most celebrated series, four books and a pendant written later, though the Long Sun and Short Sun series are linked as well. They're fabulous, rich, strange, confusing, complex stories that deepen with every re-reading.
The Wizard Knight is a duology about lots of stale fantasy ideas (magic swords, ogres, talking animals, dragons) that seem strange and new in his hands.
Castleview packs the entire Arthurian mythos into a small American town. Pandora, By Holly Hollander is a murder mystery. Free Live Free is a strange tale about losers coming together to answer a mysterious ad. The Castle In The Forest is a bleak fantasy story. There Are Doors is a love story about alternate realities. Peace is maybe his most opaque novel, though I've only read it once, and is about an old man remembering things. He might be dead.
His later novels are lesser but still labyrinthine in their mysteries, and his short story collections contain magnificent, perfectly polished jewels like The War Beneath The Tree.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
~ Buckaroo Banzai
That last sentence tho. I, Robot anyone...?
I read the first two books (bundled into one volume, but I think it was two books). I do not remember it well, but what I liked most was the use of language and some of the vivid imagery, like a duel with petals(?) And I believe I most liked the beginning part, before they go on the road.
I think I did not like the plot, characters, or plot obfuscation. I probably least liked the part that takes place in a prison with a person that maybe comes from some other reality(?)
I think I should try him again though, since he's so well regarded and does have this reputation of being intensely literary, which seems like it should be my jam.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
He's written at least three dozen novels and short story collections. The complex plots never really go away no matter what the book is. Some things are there to be seen on a re-read or puzzled out via clues.
The most accessible Wolfe stories are probably the Fifth Head (though it's still complex and has one of his very best hidden twists) and the Soldier in the Mist (though again it's not simple and a smattering of classical/mythological knowldege is a help).
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Yeah, I was thinking Blade Runner as a big pop culture example (because he basically just summarized the main plot and it is a huge pop cultural touchstone), but there are works on basically the same theme dating back literal hundreds of years at this point.
to clarify: Fifth Head is about 30% hidden twists by weight, but ofc they can't all be the best.
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I don’t really have any brilliant insights into it, but I liked it overall, especially the first book. It actually reminded me a bit of 2001, in that you have these emotionally reserved scientist types encountering this mind-altering situation. I’m also a sucker for weird and mysterious settings that are allowed to stay a bit nebulous.
I was surprised at how negative the reviews were on goodreads and amazon — people really can’t figure out the characters’ personalities?
Anyway, as a palate cleanser that requires less attention while driving i’m now letting down the entire book thread by listening to schlocky tough guy Steven Konoly books.
Meanwhile my pile of nonfiction hard copy books looms ...
If you liked that bit, you should try The City and The City.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
You might get on okay with The Vorrh then. It does something similar, but far less competently.
Awww yes
Desc you may like that
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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