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Larry Nassar, USA Gymnastics, and Michigan State : Sports Abuse Scandals

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  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    lwt1973 wrote: »

    Still gets his $425k contract salary for two more years unfortunately.

    Even Lou Ann Simon was getting paid as MSU President until she got charged with crimes in November. The lack of financial consequences for these people really bothers me. It shines a light on an unspoken safety net that people in the executive class get that nobody else really gets.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    The problem with leadership in gymnastics has gone global:
    Liubou Charkashyna, the president of the International Gymnastics Federation’s athletes’ commission—which was created to represent gymnasts’ interests—used a recent interview with Belarussian media to express skepticism about the frequency of abuse in sports and victims’ motives.

    While acknowledging that sex abuse is a problem and saying that her “heart froze” while listening to testimony of an athlete abused by her coach, Charkashyna spent more time casting doubt on victims.
    “I admit it’s possible to believe that yes, there are such cases in the sports, but not the amount of specifically the sports cases that have been thrown at us… as an opportunity to earn money on that or [get revenge] for the old insults, to shame the names of the coaches or someone else… Because, well, this is America, they know how to make money, you need to understand this.”

    And people wonder why the sport is rife with abuse.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The terrifying thing is that it feels like the US is comparatively progressive on issues like these a lot of the time.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Denhollander has a memoir coming out in the fall. Titled "How Much Is a Girl Worth?", somewhat unsurprisingly.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    The new president of MSU just published the sexual assault victim magazine that Engler killed.
    In a meeting, according to sources, Engler walked in and told a team planning an event: "Get that teal shit out of here.”

    https://www.freep.com/story/news/education/2019/04/01/michigan-state-university-alumni-magazine-larry-nassar-john-engler/3329648002/

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Hey it's MSU again. A woman who is suing the university alleging it protected three basketball players who raped her is no longer a Jane Doe. This incident was four years ago, after their Final Four loss.

    Tom Izzo should be fired, still.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    The Lansing State Journal is livestreaming former MSU President Simon's court hearing for lying to law enforcement:
    Witnesses will testify Tuesday in the Michigan Attorney General's felony case against former Michigan State University President Lou Anna Simon, who is accused of lying to police during their investigation into how MSU handled Larry Nassar.

    Edit: MSU would really like Engler to sit for an interview with the MI AG:
    In an April 9 letter to Engler, Byrum said, "We cannot emphasize enough how important this interview is in our continued cooperation with the Attorney General’s Office and our desire to wrap up the investigation."

    "When you came to the university early last year, you pledged your cooperation with then-lead investigator William Forsyth," Byrum wrote. "In your Feb. 5, 2018, letter to Forsyth, you said, 'In all matters, including the various pending investigations, my policy will be that of full cooperation. ... Spartan nation needs the full truth, and I, as Interim President, assure you we will all fully cooperate in your investigation.'"

    They also would really like him to not attend Spartan sporting events. Of course, Engler has said no to both.

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  • knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    Can’t they just ban him from the sporting events?

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    The Lansing State Journal is livestreaming former MSU President Simon's court hearing for lying to law enforcement:
    Witnesses will testify Tuesday in the Michigan Attorney General's felony case against former Michigan State University President Lou Anna Simon, who is accused of lying to police during their investigation into how MSU handled Larry Nassar.

    Edit: MSU would really like Engler to sit for an interview with the MI AG:
    In an April 9 letter to Engler, Byrum said, "We cannot emphasize enough how important this interview is in our continued cooperation with the Attorney General’s Office and our desire to wrap up the investigation."

    "When you came to the university early last year, you pledged your cooperation with then-lead investigator William Forsyth," Byrum wrote. "In your Feb. 5, 2018, letter to Forsyth, you said, 'In all matters, including the various pending investigations, my policy will be that of full cooperation. ... Spartan nation needs the full truth, and I, as Interim President, assure you we will all fully cooperate in your investigation.'"

    They also would really like him to not attend Spartan sporting events. Of course, Engler has said no to both.

    I'm OK with that. We already know that Engler is a horrible person, so now we get to see if MSU and the AG will step up on this.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Can’t they just ban him from the sporting events?

    I think that would require security to not be shitheads about it, as well as the individual team coaches. The former is easily controlled but the latter is not as easy.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The new USAG president gave her first interview and said that she too saw Larry Nassar, but she didn't get abused because her coach was in the room with her. Which shows breathtaking ignorance of the entire story.

    Would not be shocked if we get a fifth head of that organization in the last two years.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Speaking of new USAG hires, they hired a male doctor as their new director of sports medicine.

    And promptly fired him the next day, after backlash from Nassar survivors who were not consulted on the hiring.

    As fuckups go, this one is spectacular.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    HBO's documentary on this whole mess aired tonight. It's good, though I didn't learn much from it. Being someone who obsessively followed this case for a long time. Surprised Denhollander wasn't part of it, though obviously she's featured pretty heavily.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Ohio State has released their report on the abuse of Dr. Richard Strauss, revealing Nassar-level numbers of victims:
    A now-dead Ohio State team doctor sexually abused at least 177 male students from the 1970s through the 1990s, and numerous university officials got wind of what was going on over the years but did little or nothing to stop him, according to a report released by the school Friday.

    Dr. Richard Strauss groped or ogled young men while treating athletes from at least 16 sports and working at the student health center and his off-campus clinic, investigators from a law firm hired by the university found.

    “We are so sorry that this happened,” Ohio State President Michael Drake said at a news conference, using words like “shocking,” ″horrifying” and “heartbreaking” to describe the findings.

    Of course, because his name was not placed in the report, odious goose and Representative Jim Jordan is claiming exoneration, even though the report's findings make the argument that he was unaware...farsical. NBC reports that the House Committee on Education and Labor has opened investigations into the matter.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Today's sport with sexual abuse revelations - figure skating:
    Former figure skater Bridget Namiotka wrote a series of Facebook posts last weekend, accusing her ex-skating partner John Coughlin of sexual abuse. Coughlin killed himself in January one day after the U.S. Center for SafeSport placed him on interim suspension after he was reported for sexual misconduct, though none of his alleged victims came forward publicly at the time.

    Over four Facebook posts, Namiotka wrote that Coughlin abused her for two years. The two skated together as a pair starting in 2004, when Namiotka was 14 and Coughlin was 19, up until 2007. Namiotka also said there were “at least 10” other victims:

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Engler seems rather worried about being interviewed by the Michigan AG:
    Engler’s unwillingness to be interviewed about the university's handling of complaints against former sports medicine doctor Nassar will not stop Nessel’s office from completing its investigation, she said, “but we won’t have as much information.”

    Nessel said she won’t put up with Engler’s “forum shopping” or excuses regarding his lack of availability for an interview.

    “It’s not because he never comes to Michigan,” Nessel said. “It’s because he doesn’t want to be interviewed in a state where I have prosecutorial authority. He doesn’t want to be interviewed in a state where ... he can be held responsible in the event that he makes intentional misrepresentations.”

    When contacted by The Detroit News Wednesday, Engler said he had a call on the other line and hung up. A request for comment sent to Engler’s lawyer was not immediately returned.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Engler seems rather worried about being interviewed by the Michigan AG:
    Engler’s unwillingness to be interviewed about the university's handling of complaints against former sports medicine doctor Nassar will not stop Nessel’s office from completing its investigation, she said, “but we won’t have as much information.”

    Nessel said she won’t put up with Engler’s “forum shopping” or excuses regarding his lack of availability for an interview.

    “It’s not because he never comes to Michigan,” Nessel said. “It’s because he doesn’t want to be interviewed in a state where I have prosecutorial authority. He doesn’t want to be interviewed in a state where ... he can be held responsible in the event that he makes intentional misrepresentations.”

    When contacted by The Detroit News Wednesday, Engler said he had a call on the other line and hung up. A request for comment sent to Engler’s lawyer was not immediately returned.

    Have to admit it's nice seeing him squirm. Though when they get him into court, this ought to be exhibit 1 if he tries to weasel out of it- if he was indeed innocent, then why the hell did he not want to talk to the AG's people?

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Now it's USC, with former campus gynecologist George Tyndall: https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-usc-scandals-20180520-story.html

    What is it with the big public universities hiring and protecting perverts ?

  • OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    Well you see it would hurt the reputation of the school, so we better protect them...

    The reasoning is easy to understand, if utterly morally bankrupt.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    The USC scandal is not new (fortunately?)

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    The usual response of large organizations to errors is to deny, obfuscate, and cover up. Admitting and correcting mistakes generally comes much later, after embarassing public disclosure. Note that USC's first response was to pay off Tyndall and blame his supervisor who conveniently died two years ago.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Deadspin has released a longform piece about how the culture of Baylor created the environment where numerous women were assaulted.

    Been not following this, but Ken Starr? That Ken Starr? Really? Damn. That's amazingly hipocritical.

  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Deadspin has released a longform piece about how the culture of Baylor created the environment where numerous women were assaulted.

    Been not following this, but Ken Starr? That Ken Starr? Really? Damn. That's amazingly hipocritical.

    If memory serves me that wasn't even the first time he got kicked out of running a university that was being investigated for a sexual assault cover-up.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    And it has come out that Representative Jordan's cousin doxxed an Ohio State whistleblower:
    Whistleblowing former Ohio State University wrestler Mike DiSabato alleged in a lawsuit that a cousin of Rep. Jim Jordan retaliated against him after he went public with claims that team doctor Richard Strauss sexually abused him and dozens of other athletes — and that the congressman, who was then an assistant wrestling coach, did nothing to stop him.

    DiSabato’s allegations against Jordan's cousin, Matthew Finkes, are included in a Title IX lawsuit, reviewed by NBC News, filed Wednesday against the university by attorneys Michael Wright and Dennis Mulvihill on behalf of DiSabato and 36 unnamed former OSU wrestlers, football players and other athletes.

    In the court papers, DiSabato said Finkes, who works for the university, posted his social security number on social media and called him a “rat” on a local radio show. He claimed the university was aware of this but did not punish him. Finkes is not named as a defendant in the lawsuit but allegations involving him are laid out in one cause of action in the complaint.

    And yet Jordan continues to claim vindication.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Strampel's trial has begun, and the testimony is chilling:
    After winning a scholarship to assist with paying off her medical school loans, Dr. Jessica Neuroth said she posed for photos with former Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine Dean William Strampel and the donor of the scholarship money at a banquet.

    While those photos were being taken, Neuroth said Strampel grabbed her left buttock “and held it very tightly.”

    “I froze,” she said during Strampel’s trial Monday in Ingham County Circuit Court. “I was thinking, I can’t believe this is happening.”

    Strampel, who was former MSU doctor and convicted sexual abuser Larry Nassar’s boss, is charged with misconduct in office, willful neglect of duty and second degree criminal sexual conduct. The case is being heard by Ingham County Circuit Court Judge Joyce Draganchuk.

    Neuroth was the latest in a series of witnesses to testify in the case about having interactions with Strampel they deemed inappropriate while studying at MSU’s College of Osteopathic Medicine.

    She said she told one of her friends about the incident where he grabbed her at the banquet, but ultimately never reported it to Title IX officials or authorities.

    “He had already told me that he held my entire future in his hands, so I felt I could not actually confront him on what he did to me,” she said.

    No wonder he had no problem with Nassar.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular

    As a reminder, seven years is the absolute maximum, realistically this is going to be much less. From the article:
    "Will he receive jail time? That’s hard to determine at this point," Henning said. "I wouldn’t be surprised if he did, but there’s no guarantee.”
    Set your expectations accordingly.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    MSU's Trustees have finally authorized an independent investigation of the whole case. Michigan's AG says the institution lacks the credibility for even that.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular

    As a reminder, seven years is the absolute maximum, realistically this is going to be much less. From the article:
    "Will he receive jail time? That’s hard to determine at this point," Henning said. "I wouldn’t be surprised if he did, but there’s no guarantee.”
    Set your expectations accordingly.

    He's a good old boy and this would be destroying his life and he's had no prior troubles with the law 0 years no probation but he must write a letter no less than 200 words apologizing to the college

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    MSU's Trustees have finally authorized an independent investigation of the whole case. Michigan's AG says the institution lacks the credibility for even that.

    Winning the Golden Padlock for being the most secretive public agency in the US will do that.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    http://amp.timeinc.net/fortune/longform/larry-nassar-survivors-settlements?__twitter_impression=true

    Fortune has an interesting piece on how the money from the settlement is being distributed. Like everything else this is pretty messed up.

    EDIT: Also I found this from Jacob Denhollander's twitter feed. While there I learned that he met Rachael on her xanga.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Former MSU president Lou Anna Simon is retiring in August, with a nice golden parachute:
    Wherever she goes next—Mackinac, Brussels, prison—she will not lack for funds. According to the terms of her retirement, Simon will receive three payments from Michigan State, for a total of $2.45 million dollars. Also she will apparently get something called a “presidential portrait,” with one important caveat: if she is found guilty in Eaton County, the university reserves the right to jam that portrait in a linen closet:
    “The University will publicly recognize Dr. Simon and her spouse in the same manner as other President Emeriti and spouses and Distinguished Professor Emeriti and spouses, including commissioning an official portrait of Dr. Simon paid for by the University and displaying the portrait consistent with the practice for presidents emeriti; however, such public recognition of Dr. Simon’s emeritus status may be withheld if the pending criminal charges result in a felony conviction that is upheld after all post-trial motions and appellate issues are finally adjudicated.”

    So she gets $2.45M and an official portrait for enabling predators, but it's okay because MSU reserves the right to not treat her as a former president if she fails to appeal her charges. What a fucking joke.

    And a new report has the punchline:
    A new congressional report says multiple institutions knew that Larry Nassar was abusing gymnasts and failed to stop it.The report, which presents the findings of an 18-month congressional investigation into the Nassar scandal, says that the FBI, the US Olympic Committee, USA Gymnastics and Michigan State University all had a chance to stop Nassar’s abuse and “failed to do so.”These organizations “sat on evidence of his sexual misconduct for over a year — allowing for the additional sexual abuse of dozens of other girls,” says the report, which was released Tuesday.

    Sparty delenda est.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Former MSU president Lou Anna Simon is retiring in August, with a nice golden parachute:
    Wherever she goes next—Mackinac, Brussels, prison—she will not lack for funds. According to the terms of her retirement, Simon will receive three payments from Michigan State, for a total of $2.45 million dollars. Also she will apparently get something called a “presidential portrait,” with one important caveat: if she is found guilty in Eaton County, the university reserves the right to jam that portrait in a linen closet:
    “The University will publicly recognize Dr. Simon and her spouse in the same manner as other President Emeriti and spouses and Distinguished Professor Emeriti and spouses, including commissioning an official portrait of Dr. Simon paid for by the University and displaying the portrait consistent with the practice for presidents emeriti; however, such public recognition of Dr. Simon’s emeritus status may be withheld if the pending criminal charges result in a felony conviction that is upheld after all post-trial motions and appellate issues are finally adjudicated.”

    So she gets $2.45M and an official portrait for enabling predators, but it's okay because MSU reserves the right to not treat her as a former president if she fails to appeal her charges. What a fucking joke.

    And a new report has the punchline:
    A new congressional report says multiple institutions knew that Larry Nassar was abusing gymnasts and failed to stop it.The report, which presents the findings of an 18-month congressional investigation into the Nassar scandal, says that the FBI, the US Olympic Committee, USA Gymnastics and Michigan State University all had a chance to stop Nassar’s abuse and “failed to do so.”These organizations “sat on evidence of his sexual misconduct for over a year — allowing for the additional sexual abuse of dozens of other girls,” says the report, which was released Tuesday.

    Sparty delenda est.

    Holy shit, what a monumental punishment! How ever will she live???????

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  • lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Former MSU president Lou Anna Simon is retiring in August, with a nice golden parachute:
    Wherever she goes next—Mackinac, Brussels, prison—she will not lack for funds. According to the terms of her retirement, Simon will receive three payments from Michigan State, for a total of $2.45 million dollars. Also she will apparently get something called a “presidential portrait,” with one important caveat: if she is found guilty in Eaton County, the university reserves the right to jam that portrait in a linen closet:
    “The University will publicly recognize Dr. Simon and her spouse in the same manner as other President Emeriti and spouses and Distinguished Professor Emeriti and spouses, including commissioning an official portrait of Dr. Simon paid for by the University and displaying the portrait consistent with the practice for presidents emeriti; however, such public recognition of Dr. Simon’s emeritus status may be withheld if the pending criminal charges result in a felony conviction that is upheld after all post-trial motions and appellate issues are finally adjudicated.”

    So she gets $2.45M and an official portrait for enabling predators, but it's okay because MSU reserves the right to not treat her as a former president if she fails to appeal her charges. What a fucking joke.

    And a new report has the punchline:
    A new congressional report says multiple institutions knew that Larry Nassar was abusing gymnasts and failed to stop it.The report, which presents the findings of an 18-month congressional investigation into the Nassar scandal, says that the FBI, the US Olympic Committee, USA Gymnastics and Michigan State University all had a chance to stop Nassar’s abuse and “failed to do so.”These organizations “sat on evidence of his sexual misconduct for over a year — allowing for the additional sexual abuse of dozens of other girls,” says the report, which was released Tuesday.

    Sparty delenda est.

    Holy shit, what a monumental punishment! How ever will she live???????

    It's _only_ 1.2 million per year after taxes and her husband still works there as Senior Advisor to the Executive Vice President for Administration.

    Also:
    The FBI declined to comment on the report's findings. The Justice Department is reportedly investigating the FBI's handling of sexual abuse allegations against Nassar.

    Expect some slaps on the wrist to come out of this. And probably more training.

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Today's sport with sexual abuse revelations - figure skating:
    Former figure skater Bridget Namiotka wrote a series of Facebook posts last weekend, accusing her ex-skating partner John Coughlin of sexual abuse. Coughlin killed himself in January one day after the U.S. Center for SafeSport placed him on interim suspension after he was reported for sexual misconduct, though none of his alleged victims came forward publicly at the time.

    Over four Facebook posts, Namiotka wrote that Coughlin abused her for two years. The two skated together as a pair starting in 2004, when Namiotka was 14 and Coughlin was 19, up until 2007. Namiotka also said there were “at least 10” other victims:

    In follow-up, another of Coughlin's victims has come forward:
    Three-time U.S. national champion figure skater and 2014 Olympic bronze medalist Ashley Wagner wrote in USA Today on Thursday that she was sexually assaulted by the late former pairs skater John Coughlin when she was 17 and he was 22.

    Wagner, in the first-person article, writes that when she was attending a figure skating camp in Colorado in 2008, she went to a house party thrown by “some of the local athletes.” She describes this is a new experience, and the first time she ever had anything to drink. Wagner ended up spending the night at the house after nobody could drive her back to her hotel. This is when Coughlin, who had already competed in the U.S. Figure Skating Championships at this point in his life, climbed into her bed and assaulted her [spoiled for account of sexual assault]:
    It was the middle of the night when I felt him crawl into my bed. I had been sleeping and didn’t move because I didn’t understand what it meant. I thought he just wanted a place to sleep. But then he started kissing my neck. I pretended to be deep asleep, hoping he would stop. He didn’t. When his hands started to wander, when he started touching me, groping my body, I tried to shift around so that he would think I was waking up and would stop. He didn’t.

    ...

    I then felt myself starting to cry, and I knew I had to make a choice. I opened my eyes and pulled away from him as he kissed my neck. I grabbed his invading hand, and I told him to stop. And he did. He looked at me for a few seconds, quietly got up and left the room. All of this happened over the period of about five minutes. That is such a small amount of time, but it’s haunted me ever since.

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  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    I really think the key take away from her piece is the caution about the small, insular, age imbalanced nature of the competitor groups. Its not something I've ever considered, but normally yeah if you saw a 20 year old man hanging around with a bunch of 15 year old girls that'd be a huge red flag. But that's pretty much the normal age gap for elite skaters in their prime, and the training/traveling lifestyle of the sport forces them together.
    But this is not about a name. This is about the environment that allowed for that act to happen. I want the issue to feel real to people, and for them to understand the dynamics of my sport, where uncomfortable power imbalances thrive to this day.

    Athletes at the elite level have long been celebrated for their physical talent and abilities. I competed at that level for 15 years, from the age of 13 to 27. Talent and ability – not age – place you into your social circle. It is not normal for kids and teenagers to be in the same social environment as adults. But in figure skating, it happens all the time. Thirteen-year-old girls can be on the same international team as 21-year-old men, traveling on the same flights, staying in the same hotels, eating all of their meals together.

    This year I watched a phenomenal young superstar, Alysa Liu, become the U.S. figure skating national champion at 13. It was in that moment that I knew I had to come forward with my story. I want to make this sport safer for those kids. I went to U.S. Figure Skating and proposed changes to athlete education and wellness designed to keep these young skaters as safe as possible.

    The bottom line is, people need to talk more about this. As a 17-year-old in skating, my social world was so small. As a man in his 20s in skating, his social scene was also minuscule, mostly teenagers competing in the sport. This is a pressure-cooker environment that will continue to create uncomfortable, inappropriate and unsafe work places unless something is done about it.

    I want kids to be able to stay kids in this sport. People need to start talking about how to create boundaries. My talent and ability should not have been what defined the people who were around me.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Except that iirc most of the abuses revealed hasn't been other competition? It's a possible issue for sure but it doesn't seem to have been the systematic thing the coaches have been

  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Are there any other abuse-prone sports like that left that haven't had their scandals yet?

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Are there any other abuse-prone sports like that left that haven't had their scandals yet?

    Have we heard of a sport that isn't prone to abuse in some way yet?

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