As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[Overwatch] Workshop now included.

15556586061100

Posts

  • BeezelBeezel There was no agreement little morsel..Registered User regular
    I don't think the frost beam or the turret beams should instantly kill like 75% of Ham's momentum as full speed. It's stupid how they do that.

    PSN: Waybackkidd
    "...only mights and maybes."
  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Mei being a direct counter to Hammond seems reasonable. The only way to beat science is more science.

    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Turrets are bullshit as a general rule. You wanna' hurt me? Hit me. With a shot that you aimed.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Well a lotta' people got a Fuck Ball button.
    • Mei Wall
    • Mei Freeze
    • Junk Trap
    • Orisa Halt
    • McCree Flash
    • Sombra Hack
    • Hog Hook
    • Rein Pin
    • ummmm....

    ....is that it? I feel like I'm missin' some. But come to think of it those are all also kinda' Fuck Literally Anyone Who Gets Caught By It buttons.

    ana sleep
    pharah and lucio boops in certain situations
    doomfist and brig punch/bumps
    syms turrets
    ...

  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    Also i'm having a ton of fun with the two new game modes...I haven't had the bad luck that other shave posted with a TON of quitters but i definitely have dropped from 8 to 5 in 'most' matches...even when i get stuck on someone i'm still having fun because i know that someone out there is a character i'm the counter for, i just have to find them mwa ha ha ha

  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    For Symm turrets - they can be tricky, but they rely more on being a surprise or being in areas that are watched and guarded by their team.

    If I know they're there I can boost through then just ignore them or turn around and kill them. But if I don't know they're there I might waste momentum doing something else I was gonna do and then I'm basically stalled out before I know what's happening. And if I don't have a safe place to kill the turrets then those turrets become a permanent obstacle that I'll struggle to remove or work around.

    One example is when I discover turrets just outside my piledrive AoE. That is not the time you want to have to waste precious millisconds finding and killing those stupid little iTurrets before you can make a getaway.

    Another example is Volskaya A choke. You put turrets on the other side of that choke and...well actually it won't do much to me because my set rollout is to blast straight through, but the point is, if for some reason I had to also turn around and kill the turrets I'd be dead immediately to Symm and her whole team. There's no place on the entire other side of that choke that's both safe and within a decent range of Hammond's main guns' spray to kill the turrets in decent time.

    So my rollout is to blast through the choke, pressure point, then scram when resistance comes my way and begin initiating from behind. Leave the turrets for someone else. If the team is struggling to use the space to enter the choke and remove the turrets - basically, if my point pressure and from-behind grapples and piledrives aren't helping them through the choke to deal with the turrets - then yes, in a sense I 'can't deal with' the turrets and I have to switch.

    And for that, Winston is way better. So yeah, I often switch to Winston against Symm, but it'shard to agree that it's because Symm 'counters' Ham. It's more that Winston deals with the match-up so much better. If you could choose a hard counter pick instead of a complicated skill match-up, wouldn't you?

    Wrecking Ball's relationship to a lot of his counters really deserves an 'it's complicated' status. It makes him a very interesting hero. Have you ever noticed how on the one hand people will say "CC counters Hammond" yet OTOH everyone agrees that Wrecking Ball's job is to tank cooldowns and CC? Isn't that fascinating? I think so. :)

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Well a lotta' people got a Fuck Ball button.
    • Mei Wall
    • Mei Freeze
    • Junk Trap
    • Orisa Halt
    • McCree Flash
    • Sombra Hack
    • Hog Hook
    • Rein Pin
    • ummmm....

    ....is that it? I feel like I'm missin' some. But come to think of it those are all also kinda' Fuck Literally Anyone Who Gets Caught By It buttons.

    ana sleep
    pharah and lucio boops in certain situations
    doomfist and brig punch/bumps
    syms turrets
    ...

    yeah anyone with a boop can send him straight into a wall/fuck up his mine placements/etc

    uc3ufTB.png
  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Oh my god, I tried to get the mirror mode FFA box last night and I could not win a game to save my life. I must have played 9-10 rounds, and I got 5th-6th place in literally every one, and most of them in the last 15 seconds. I'm not sure if I've ever had a more frustrating stretch of games in my entire Overwatch experience.

    Meanwhile I only played a couple rounds of the hero gauntlet and absolutely destroyed. Last one I did, I won by like 8 kills and decided to retire as permanent champion.

  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    I'm a really big fan of the latest PTR patch. Sad about the Torb buffs but something was probably called for. His shotgun dps was equivalent to Reaper's even before Overcharge.

    Reaper is a bad design but the point stands.

    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Turrets are bullshit as a general rule. You wanna' hurt me? Hit me. With a shot that you aimed.

    You want to dodge? Move with a joystick that you nudged, not this blink, blink, blink nonsense.

  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    soylenth wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Turrets are bullshit as a general rule. You wanna' hurt me? Hit me. With a shot that you aimed.

    You want to dodge? Move with a joystick that you nudged, not this blink, blink, blink nonsense.

    Or get Blizzard to add momentum to AD strafing so it isn't an essentially costless kind of dodging.

    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    New Patch Notes for 5-23-19

    They have added replay and changed the A/B matps to only offer 3 minutes on Point A Capture and reduced the first respawn time of defenders who die after Point A is captured to try and make it less of a roll on Point B.

    Here are the hero changes:
    Baptiste

    Biotic Launcher
    Increased heal ammo from 10 to 12.
    Amplification Matrix
    Ultimate duration increased from 8 seconds to 10 seconds.

    Developer Comments: Given the dual nature of Baptiste’s weapon, he ends up having to reload often. We’re increasing the amount of ammo he has to work with so he can get more firing time while healing. Similarly, increasing the duration of Amplification Matrix will allow allies more time to get into position to make use of it.



    D.Va

    Defense Matrix
    Reduced length of Defense Matrix from 15 meters to 10 meters.

    Developer Comments: Defense Matrix is a very powerful defensive ability and can often feel oppressive from far away. Reducing the range on it will require D.Va to position herself more carefully to take advantage of its effects.



    McCree

    Peacekeeper
    Primary fire recovery reduced from 0.5 seconds to 0.4 seconds.

    Developer Comments: On average, McCree’s damage output wasn’t quite making up for the relatively low mobility or utility in his kit. Reducing his weapon’s recovery time improves the potential damage output without affecting the number of successful shots to kill an enemy.



    Orisa

    Protective Barrier
    Barrier can be deployed without interrupting reload.

    Developer Comments: Orisa has one of the longest weapon reloads and interrupting it to deploy a new barrier felt too disruptive to her gameplay. This change allows her to reload as needed while still being able to protect herself and her team.



    Symmetra

    Teleporter
    Teleporter interact range increased from 1 meter to 1.5 meters.

    Developer Comments: This is primarily a quality of life improvement as it was possible to create a teleporter that Symmetra was unable to interact with unless she moved toward it.



    Torbjörn

    Rivet Gun
    Secondary Fire damage per pellet reduced from 12.5 to 10.5 (105 dmg total per shot).

    Developer Comments: The combined damage output of Torbjörn’s secondary fire with his Overload ability was too high given his recently increased survivability.

    McCree didn't need that buff, that half second is balanced just right to also line up the next shot, if anything his roll or general mobility needed an increase.

    Orisa didn't need that buff, I say that as her being my main tank, that reload cycle cancel was a needed weakness

    DvA was needed but now it's just going to enforce this new bunker meta, especially with unnecessary Baptiste buffs, you're basically making a mini Bridget if you won't nerf immortality field and just giving him more healing with his ridiculous ult build time. If you buff Baptiste you need to nerf loser Bastion.

    Torb needed the nerf, but it should also happen to his primary fire too.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Disagree on Orisa - she still has major weaknesses and this is just nice QoL. McCree didn't need the buff - now it'll be even easier to nail 2 headshots off a flash.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Happy to see a Torb nerf tho. He's a friggin' tankbuster right now lol.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    soylenth wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Turrets are bullshit as a general rule. You wanna' hurt me? Hit me. With a shot that you aimed.

    You want to dodge? Move with a joystick that you nudged, not this blink, blink, blink nonsense.

    Hey I'm not down on Pharahs who boop themselves or Junks who go flyin' or Syms who teleport away or Mercies usin' Guardian Angel. I'm down on heroes not having to shoot in this first person shooter. It's one thing to have Rein swingin' his hammer at you. It's quite another to stumble into a room to get instamelted by three turrets.
    Coinage wrote: »

    Gross.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    More Orisa buffs holy shit. It's a great QoL change but damn she really didn't need it right now.

    Torb nerfs make sense although I hate it. He was super strong and people were only just now catching on I feel like.

    McCree is one of those characters that is very different depending on what level you play at. He's also very sensitive to other DPS changes. It's either him or Soldier for the close to midrange hitscan duties. I think Ashe needed something more than him. She's fine at low and mid levels but at the high levels she's totally outclassed at range by Widow and up close by McSoldier. Unfortunately, I'm terrible at Widow so I being decent with Ashe helps me out immensely.

  • McMoogleMcMoogle Registered User regular
    I feel like they need to nerf Reapers mobility during his ult a little. Not completely immobile but something less than what it currently is either by total distance he can travel or the speed at which he can.

    steam_sig.png
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Orisa is already edging out Rein as a main tank before this change

  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    soylenth wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Turrets are bullshit as a general rule. You wanna' hurt me? Hit me. With a shot that you aimed.

    You want to dodge? Move with a joystick that you nudged, not this blink, blink, blink nonsense.

    Hey I'm not down on Pharahs who boop themselves or Junks who go flyin' or Syms who teleport away or Mercies usin' Guardian Angel. I'm down on heroes not having to shoot in this first person shooter. It's one thing to have Rein swingin' his hammer at you. It's quite another to stumble into a room to get instamelted by three turrets.
    Coinage wrote: »

    Gross.

    but the point remains that it's not as simple as aiming and shooting with Tracer because she blinks constantly. torb is a reasonable counter to an extremely frustrating character to play against, who has her own BS cheats to the simple mechanics of moving, aiming and shooting ( as many of them do! ). With torb and sym too you still have to plan ahead and place your turrets smartly, in anticipating of flankers or whatever, so it's not totally mindless either. And in terms of countering tracer, while she has more direct point and shoot counters, zone control is a reasonable counter too.

    I know you were half-kidding, but still! The battlefield should not be pre-emptively assumed to be tracer's! No-tracer clubs around a turret are fine. Plenty of easy ways to deal with a turret with a little help from your friends.

  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    A robust replay function would be a huge deal and a seriously important tool for people who want to improve their comp game. It would make VOD reviews much more comprehensive and allow for so much more nuance for players to self-critique and understand from other player perspectives.

  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    A robust replay function would be a huge deal and a seriously important tool for people who want to improve their comp game. It would make VOD reviews much more comprehensive and allow for so much more nuance for players to self-critique and understand from other player perspectives.

    Assuming it wouldn't be immediately used to shame and humiliate players that didn't live up to the exacting standards of online jerks, I agree.

  • Brutal JBrutal J Sorry! Sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Registered User regular
    Man, remember when I had a long rambling post about Mei and that her time-to-kill is baaad, and someone like McCree is really good... and now they buff his time-to-kill. LUL.

    Also, GG to whoever (rip memory) I played with earlier in quickplay. Goin' against my Mei with a bunker comp? Tsk. Tsk.

  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    So I went on a D.VA. run because of the new skin and boy howdy is it fun being extremely annoying with her. I was was feeling the peeling. Had some very good runs on her this week.

    Also, the new hog and mei skins look ridiculously good in game. The toxic hog skin is so good I basically consider it his default look now.

  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    As someone only now really getting into the game, D.Va feels like she was built by a team of scientists to be peak waifu.

    Which makes it all the more galling that I fucking love D.Va. Her VA is killing it.

  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    SirToasty wrote: »
    More Orisa buffs holy shit. It's a great QoL change but damn she really didn't need it right now.

    Torb nerfs make sense although I hate it. He was super strong and people were only just now catching on I feel like.

    McCree is one of those characters that is very different depending on what level you play at. He's also very sensitive to other DPS changes. It's either him or Soldier for the close to midrange hitscan duties. I think Ashe needed something more than him. She's fine at low and mid levels but at the high levels she's totally outclassed at range by Widow and up close by McSoldier. Unfortunately, I'm terrible at Widow so I being decent with Ashe helps me out immensely.

    I have yet to get used to the recoil for Ashe when she's scoped. It's very frustrating.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    soylenth wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    soylenth wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Turrets are bullshit as a general rule. You wanna' hurt me? Hit me. With a shot that you aimed.

    You want to dodge? Move with a joystick that you nudged, not this blink, blink, blink nonsense.

    Hey I'm not down on Pharahs who boop themselves or Junks who go flyin' or Syms who teleport away or Mercies usin' Guardian Angel. I'm down on heroes not having to shoot in this first person shooter. It's one thing to have Rein swingin' his hammer at you. It's quite another to stumble into a room to get instamelted by three turrets.
    Coinage wrote: »

    Gross.

    but the point remains that it's not as simple as aiming and shooting with Tracer because she blinks constantly. torb is a reasonable counter to an extremely frustrating character to play against, who has her own BS cheats to the simple mechanics of moving, aiming and shooting ( as many of them do! ). With torb and sym too you still have to plan ahead and place your turrets smartly, in anticipating of flankers or whatever, so it's not totally mindless either. And in terms of countering tracer, while she has more direct point and shoot counters, zone control is a reasonable counter too.

    I know you were half-kidding, but still! The battlefield should not be pre-emptively assumed to be tracer's! No-tracer clubs around a turret are fine. Plenty of easy ways to deal with a turret with a little help from your friends.

    Your Tracist dog whistles are frankly grotesque in their bald-faceitude! The entire Lindholm clan has made it their life's work to wipe my time-jumping people from the earth - an act of spectacularly specific genocide - and you call them reasonable?!

    But in all seriousness fighting a well-supported Sym is just... it sucks. Unless I can get her alone for just like 3 seconds and then spawn camp her into Brig. Or Junk or McCree I don't care just aim at me and try to hit me. That's my gambit.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Kamar wrote: »
    As someone only now really getting into the game, D.Va feels like she was built by a team of scientists to be peak waifu.

    Which makes it all the more galling that I fucking love D.Va. Her VA is killing it.

    She's super-fun to play >.<

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Chance wrote: »
    soylenth wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    soylenth wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Turrets are bullshit as a general rule. You wanna' hurt me? Hit me. With a shot that you aimed.

    You want to dodge? Move with a joystick that you nudged, not this blink, blink, blink nonsense.

    Hey I'm not down on Pharahs who boop themselves or Junks who go flyin' or Syms who teleport away or Mercies usin' Guardian Angel. I'm down on heroes not having to shoot in this first person shooter. It's one thing to have Rein swingin' his hammer at you. It's quite another to stumble into a room to get instamelted by three turrets.
    Coinage wrote: »

    Gross.

    but the point remains that it's not as simple as aiming and shooting with Tracer because she blinks constantly. torb is a reasonable counter to an extremely frustrating character to play against, who has her own BS cheats to the simple mechanics of moving, aiming and shooting ( as many of them do! ). With torb and sym too you still have to plan ahead and place your turrets smartly, in anticipating of flankers or whatever, so it's not totally mindless either. And in terms of countering tracer, while she has more direct point and shoot counters, zone control is a reasonable counter too.

    I know you were half-kidding, but still! The battlefield should not be pre-emptively assumed to be tracer's! No-tracer clubs around a turret are fine. Plenty of easy ways to deal with a turret with a little help from your friends.

    Your Tracist dog whistles are frankly grotesque in their bald-faceitude! The entire Lindholm clan has made it their life's work to wipe my time-jumping people from the earth - an act of spectacularly specific genocide - and you call them reasonable?!

    But in all seriousness fighting a well-supported Sym is just... it sucks. Unless I can get her alone for just like 3 seconds and then spawn camp her into Brig. Or Junk or McCree I don't care just aim at me and try to hit me. That's my gambit.

    I do agree that like 3 turrets in MH are some BS, but so are 3 d.va's or 3 orisas. Trying to get my arcade boxes tuesday I stumbled onto a comp that was 4 mercies, a bastion and a deadly accurate soldier. Jesus christ did we get shredded.

    edit: Also, TRACIST?? Some of my best friends are tracers, how dare you.


    (okay maybe)

    soylenth on
  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    Mei's day will come Brutal J!

    ...

    But only a day. Because the day after that the immense community backlash will earn her the Doomfist Treatment.

    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • SyzygySyzygy Registered User regular
    Anyone else getting real sick of Junkrat? I'm quite certain they overbuffed him, he just melts everything now, and still doesn't really need good aim to just get free frags. I tried playing him for a bit in both comp and quickplay and while comp was a bit harder thanks to premades I just got frag after frag after frag with way less effort compared any other DPS hero, and I've got maybe a combined 3 hours on junkrat since this game was released.

    Otherwise I fucking love playing as Hammond, a character I hated on first release. It wasn't until I noticed that getting kills by bowling in to people also comically sends then into orbit. That and making Rein players tear their hair out because I ruin their positioning is cathartic, especially when it's a Rein on a team that is actually supporting him and making him unkillable. I don't need to kill you, I just need to expose your team and let my team kill THEM while you watch!

  • RoyallyFlushedRoyallyFlushed Registered User regular
    SirToasty wrote: »
    More Orisa buffs holy shit. It's a great QoL change but damn she really didn't need it right now.

    Torb nerfs make sense although I hate it. He was super strong and people were only just now catching on I feel like.

    McCree is one of those characters that is very different depending on what level you play at. He's also very sensitive to other DPS changes. It's either him or Soldier for the close to midrange hitscan duties. I think Ashe needed something more than him. She's fine at low and mid levels but at the high levels she's totally outclassed at range by Widow and up close by McSoldier. Unfortunately, I'm terrible at Widow so I being decent with Ashe helps me out immensely.

    I mean, Ashe *has* to be outclassed at long range by Widow and mid range by McCree. Otherwise she would largely invalidate them as character choices. She is a jack of all trades, master of none, and very much feels like a character for new players to use since she can do a bit of everything from an offense perspective.

  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Junkrat makes me way less mad now, I used to lose control every time he was on the other team but now the only unbearable thing is being thrown into the skybox by mine when I'm playing Rein

  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Syzygy wrote: »
    Anyone else getting real sick of Junkrat? I'm quite certain they overbuffed him, he just melts everything now, and still doesn't really need good aim to just get free frags. I tried playing him for a bit in both comp and quickplay and while comp was a bit harder thanks to premades I just got frag after frag after frag with way less effort compared any other DPS hero, and I've got maybe a combined 3 hours on junkrat since this game was released.

    Otherwise I fucking love playing as Hammond, a character I hated on first release. It wasn't until I noticed that getting kills by bowling in to people also comically sends then into orbit. That and making Rein players tear their hair out because I ruin their positioning is cathartic, especially when it's a Rein on a team that is actually supporting him and making him unkillable. I don't need to kill you, I just need to expose your team and let my team kill THEM while you watch!

    Nope, I think Junk is one of my favourite dps to see on either team. Junk pickers will (usually) have the decency to spam a shield and contribute to your team's frontline damage - since that's probably why they picked Junkrat - and enemy Junks, while sometimes quite tricksy, still feel manageable. Junk has clear strengths and weaknesses and a well-defined role. I think he's a great hero and more heroes should be like him.

    That's just me though. Rolling around in this steel ball does things to your brain.

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    I too would rather fight with or against a Junk - and while Junk has, I think, the most inflated Luck Stat of any hero in the game thanks to grenade bounces and just the general nature of every aspect of his kit, eating a damage-boosted nade that he tossed over a castle somehow never feels as cheap as the Torb turret I just didn't notice was eatin' me after my Mercy stopped pocketing.

    I still don't think he needed the damage buff - most Junks actually deal higher consistent damage than any Pharah I know - but I'd like to see a nerf to the tire. Some Junk players may be scandalized to read this, but I seriously think riptire is way too easy to get value out of for the massive damage it can do across a massive area of effect. (But we have to leave ourselves defenseless while running the tire and we can get killed that way!) Yuhuh go tell that sob story to Pharah and McCree and lemmie know how much sympathy you get.

    But overall
    Musicool wrote: »
    Junk has clear strengths and weaknesses and a well-defined role. I think he's a great hero and more heroes should be like him.

    I agree with this. Though I can't say I want to see more heroes that can accidentally clock me for 90% of my life bar. It's just that fighting a Junkrat is usually a pretty fun time.

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • BeezelBeezel There was no agreement little morsel..Registered User regular
    Junk is cool and strong and my friend

    PSN: Waybackkidd
    "...only mights and maybes."
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    They already gave Junk a luck nerf, I think he's fine.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    They already gave Junk a luck nerf

    Hm. Y'know you're 100% right but I never thought of it like that. My reaction was more "he doesn't need to do more than a Widow body shot!"

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Junkrat #2 best character behind McCree, I feel he's fine and he's never felt cheap (if you get trapped, you're not paying attention), but I would be fine with a damage nerf to riptire if they brought back the old speed again

This discussion has been closed.