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[Formula One & motorsport] Round 10, Great Britain: Dance round your sandbags

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Posts

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    So long as the league defers to Ferrari, both via regulation and via compensation, there will never be 'competition'. Which long standing fans of F1 love, I guess, that you can always count on the same names to be at the front.

    As a more recent fan, I find the idea that some teams should be given massive advantages over other teams antithetical to the notion of sport.

    chrishallett83Aridhol
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    They need some sort of system akin to the NBA draft lottery, that helps teams that are behind catch up, and forces teams that are ahead to work harder, as well as some method of levelling the playing field a little, like a budget cap.

    Obviously those things have problems of their own, but they are lesser problems than currently and would be a net positive.

    The way F1 is going, we might as well remove the driver's championship soon. Drivers already play nearly no role in the success of their team in the track. You could put any two drivers on the grid into the two Merc W10s and nothing would change about the results we've had so far.

    chrishallett83
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    who could have imagined this would be the worst season instead of the best season


    i don't think that Liberty is intimidated in any way by Ferrari and I think they'll be willing to tell them to fuck themselves in the due course of time

    There's just SO MUCH HORSESHIT to clean up in F1, Liberty has been working Big to Small... Ferrari is somewhere in-between.

    I don't think Ferrari has a single card in their hand. Leave F1? OK good luck selling all those hats, idiot. Make your own series? You can barely make your own car. Get the fuck out of here with that shit


    I'm very happy with Liberty's tenure so far, I just think it may take another 5 years for it to show on track due to how awful late-era Bernie's stewardship was

    Try EVE Online with my referral code, and I'll like you a little bit: https://www.eveonline.com/signup/?invc=86622db9-a6f9-41e8-b846-c305f625b55b
    GnomeTank
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    At this point we all might as well cheer for 21 straight Mercedes 1-2, just for the sheer spectacle of it and also hopefully to weaken any opposition to rule shifts.

    GnomeTankAridhol
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited May 23
    Nova_C wrote: »
    So long as the league defers to Ferrari, both via regulation and via compensation, there will never be 'competition'. Which long standing fans of F1 love, I guess, that you can always count on the same names to be at the front.

    As a more recent fan, I find the idea that some teams should be given massive advantages over other teams antithetical to the notion of sport.

    The most embarrassing part for Ferrari is that despite all that money, and all that veto power, Mercedes is still kicking their ass.

    Their veto definitely needs to die. I'm not completely against them getting an appearance fee, because they are important to the sport, but I think it needs to be much smaller, and some other teams should be in line for that as well (McLaren and Williams come to mind immediately). If we are going to give long standing teams a payment though, there needs to be clear rules around it. How long do you need to be in the sport? What is the payment scale?
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    The way F1 is going, we might as well remove the driver's championship soon. Drivers already play nearly no role in the success of their team in the track. You could put any two drivers on the grid into the two Merc W10s and nothing would change about the results we've had so far

    I only partially agree with this. I think there are still tracks where a driver like Hamilton, Vestrappen or Laclerc absolutely make a difference. Petr Windsor talks about this a lot. How there are certain corners, at certain tracks, where the best drivers eek out a tenth or two that other drivers can't. He talked about turn 9 and 10 at Bahrain, where Hamilton, Verstrappen and Laclerc were always faster than everyone else, because it requires such amazing braking finesse.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    DhalphirDizzy D
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Mercedes spends as much as Ferrari, so although I agree with your overall point, it's not exactly David and Goliath.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Mercedes spends as much as Ferrari, so although I agree with your overall point, it's not exactly David and Goliath.

    Not trying to say it is, only that Mercedes isn't being handed as much free money and has no veto power, and is not just beating Ferrari, but embarrassing them.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Yeah, Ferrari edges out Mercedes for the amount of money they make from F1 when Mercedes takes both championships, but it's close, and I'm sure with the sponsors, the difference isn't anything Liberty can do anything about.

    And there are payments made to McLaren and Williams for the same reason Ferrari gets them, but they're a fraction (I think McLaren is 11 mill to Ferrari's 92 mill).

    Ideally, there would be nothing like that. Team payments would be set into two funds: The first fund is equally distributed to all teams that participate according to how many races they start (Because ALL teams contribute to F1s popularity by putting cars on the track. F1 would be boring as shit if there were just 6 cars on the track), and the other fund is distributed according to the championships.

    GnomeTankDrovekAridhol
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited May 23
    I like that idea. The championship fund should also be much smaller. Right now the positive feedback loop it creates just magnifies the already massively different budgets. Mercedes would be a top team even if they got zero championship dollars, because Mercedes-Benz is pumping hundreds of millions of euros in to the team and their sponsors pay big money to be on that car. The rumor is Petronas is paying 50-60m a year to be the title sponsor. That's almost as big as some of the smaller teams total budgets.

    e: And you can replace "Mercedes" with Ferrari or Red Bull in this equation. They can all float their own budgets, without the massive championship dollars.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    Nova_CDhalphir
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited May 23
    I think the smallest budget is Haas with just over 100m. I think bang for buck Haas is the best team on the grid.

    But yeah, I'm really cheering for a Mercedes sweep of the entire season. An entire season swept with perfect performance has never happened, and the novelty of that far outweighs any desire I might have to see Ferrari or Red Bull scrape a win.

    Dhalphir on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    It's not just the novelty of it happening (which I agree would be rad), it's also the how clearly it would show that something is broken in F1.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    DhalphirDrovekTeeManCormacAridhol
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Mercedes spends as much as Ferrari, so although I agree with your overall point, it's not exactly David and Goliath.

    Not trying to say it is, only that Mercedes isn't being handed as much free money and has no veto power, and is not just beating Ferrari, but embarrassing them.

    To be fair, it's mostly Ferrari embarrassing Ferrari at the minute.

    GnomeTank
  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    It's not just the novelty of it happening (which I agree would be rad), it's also the how clearly it would show that something is broken in F1.

    Not like the last 4 years have not pointed this out repeatedly.

    steam_sig.png
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Drovek wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    It's not just the novelty of it happening (which I agree would be rad), it's also the how clearly it would show that something is broken in F1.

    Not like the last 4 years have not pointed this out repeatedly.

    There's dominance and then there's a sweep. We've had dominance. Ferrari won six in a row. But we've never had a sweep. A sweep would mean a team operating on just an entirely other level to everyone else.

  • DirtyboyDirtyboy Registered User regular
    Formula E documentary trailer:


    GnomeTankTeeManjimb213
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Drovek wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    It's not just the novelty of it happening (which I agree would be rad), it's also the how clearly it would show that something is broken in F1.

    Not like the last 4 years have not pointed this out repeatedly.

    There's dominance and then there's a sweep. We've had dominance. Ferrari won six in a row. But we've never had a sweep. A sweep would mean a team operating on just an entirely other level to everyone else.

    And right now it appears Mercedes is. We are starting to see per-lap gaps like we saw in 2014 and 2015, except now Mercedes car is nearly bullet proof and appears to have no real weaknesses. The only thing that would stop a sweep this year, in my opinion, is Mercedes reliability. Right now no one is even close in performance. A lot can change of course, but you have to wonder at what point do the other teams give up on 2019 and stop developing this car?

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    Dhalphir
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    What I find most impressive about this year's merc is that they're doing it through aero. In years like 14, 15 it was clear they simply had the class of the field on engine alone. Right now that doesn't seem to be the case yet they've just plain outdone everyone else on aero.

    I still don't think Merc will sweep the board, given that we've already had one race they ought to have lost (Bahrain). I could see them losing out on some of the raw engine power circuits like Monza (if Ferrari don't explode that is) but honestly I just expected Ferrari to put up more of a challenge than this.

  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    We should just have drag racing with the cars going in reverse, just to keep things interesting.

    steam_sig.png
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    What I find most impressive about this year's merc is that they're doing it through aero. In years like 14, 15 it was clear they simply had the class of the field on engine alone. Right now that doesn't seem to be the case yet they've just plain outdone everyone else on aero.

    I still don't think Merc will sweep the board, given that we've already had one race they ought to have lost (Bahrain). I could see them losing out on some of the raw engine power circuits like Monza (if Ferrari don't explode that is) but honestly I just expected Ferrari to put up more of a challenge than this.

    But even that's not true anymore, post Baku, which has (I believe) the longest straight of the season. Ferrari was only marginally faster than Mercedes in the speed traps. Ferrari clearly had to turn their engine down after Bahrain because of reliability. So even at Monza and Spa, if they still have to keep the engine at 10.5 instead of 11, I see no reason Mercedes massive advantage in corners won't win the day.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    Well this is interesting:

    https://www.redbulladvancedtechnologies.com/aeroscreen-for-indycar/

    Indy Cars are getting a windscreen in 2020.

    DrovekVeeveechrishallett83
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    udtxvfo2aned.jpg

    That gets my inner 10 year old very excited. Love that windscreen.

    Next up is projecting info for the drivers onto the windscreen.

    Aridhol
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    It's just the halo...with a windscreen. Which is fine, I just find it strange that no one seems up in arms about this the way they were with the halo. I guess people are used to it now and general human "you moved my cheese!!!!" isn't kicking in.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    I never got the fuss over the halo, I like them. They break up the sharp height drop from the air intake to the driver's head nicely, and most of the teams have incorporated them nicely into the lines of the car and the liveries.

    GnomeTankAridhol
  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    The halo is a good design. It has done its job multiple times already.

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Drovek wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    It's not just the novelty of it happening (which I agree would be rad), it's also the how clearly it would show that something is broken in F1.

    Not like the last 4 years have not pointed this out repeatedly.

    There's dominance and then there's a sweep. We've had dominance. Ferrari won six in a row. But we've never had a sweep. A sweep would mean a team operating on just an entirely other level to everyone else.

    The McLaren MP4/4 damn near ran a clean sweep of the season. 15/16 race wins, and 15/16 pole positions. It was only Monza where they couldn't utterly dominate. (It's still my favourite F1 car of all time, even in front of the BRM V16)

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I never got the fuss over the halo, I like them. They break up the sharp height drop from the air intake to the driver's head nicely, and most of the teams have incorporated them nicely into the lines of the car and the liveries.

    I was for the full canopy design, but the Halo is much better than nothing at all. Still think it looks stupid.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Drovek wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    It's not just the novelty of it happening (which I agree would be rad), it's also the how clearly it would show that something is broken in F1.

    Not like the last 4 years have not pointed this out repeatedly.

    There's dominance and then there's a sweep. We've had dominance. Ferrari won six in a row. But we've never had a sweep. A sweep would mean a team operating on just an entirely other level to everyone else.

    The McLaren MP4/4 damn near ran a clean sweep of the season. 15/16 race wins, and 15/16 pole positions. It was only Monza where they couldn't utterly dominate. (It's still my favourite F1 car of all time, even in front of the BRM V16)

    Those weren't 1-2s in all those wins, though.

    chrishallett83
  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    50% off Dirt Rally 2.0 on steam right now. Awfully tempting even though I have very little time to play right now.

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    I'm getting used to the halo, after not being a fan at all, and it's adoption by various other series means it's sticking out visually less and less. I admit I still don't particularly care for how it looks, although that's improving over time as it integrates with the rest of the car more and more, but in terms of safety it's absolutely proven itself by now.

    The Indycar idea of actually layering the new screen over the existing halo hopefully will mean the best of both worlds.

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    My only real concern about the halo is extraction from the car, specifically how quick drivers can get out. There has been at least one incident where it appeared to be a problem. I’d certainly hope it doesn’t compromise safety too much in that regard.

    Jazz
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    My only real concern about the halo is extraction from the car, specifically how quick drivers can get out. There has been at least one incident where it appeared to be a problem. I’d certainly hope it doesn’t compromise safety too much in that regard.

    Which incident? It doesn't obstruct the opening at all, so I'm struggling to see this be an issue anywhere. If anything, I often see drivers using the halo to help themselves out of the cockpits with their arms.

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    altid wrote: »
    My only real concern about the halo is extraction from the car, specifically how quick drivers can get out. There has been at least one incident where it appeared to be a problem. I’d certainly hope it doesn’t compromise safety too much in that regard.

    Which incident? It doesn't obstruct the opening at all, so I'm struggling to see this be an issue anywhere. If anything, I often see drivers using the halo to help themselves out of the cockpits with their arms.

    Hulkenberg, Abu Dhabi last year:



    There was a question over the halo at the time but on further reading it seems it wasn't deemed to be a factor. Unfortunately the video doesn't show the aftermath where Hulkenberg was stuck upside down in a burning car. As for getting out, it does make it harder. The motion isn't quite as natural as it was before, and I seem to remember some drivers complaining about it at first. It still looks quite awkward how they have to grab the halo from below and pull themselves up. I would wonder how the proposed IndyCar design above (halo + shield) would handle it though as I imagine it would be even harder to find a grip.

    The halo is undoubtedly good and no doubt more informed persons and engineers have thought about these issues. It just makes me slightly uneasy if they're being even slightly complacent about the risk of fire and the need to get out fast.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    It's an unfortunate risk, but I think Senna/Pryce v Lauda settles that debate

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    The FIA had to change the time a driver had to be able to extract themselves from a car in an emergency from five seconds to ten because the halo slows it down so much. Pulling yourself up with it is not an advantage to exiting the car quickly. And it can easily stop you from getting out at all from an upside-down car, as we've seen. That was my biggest safety concern with it from the start.

    I was fucking terrified for Hulkenberg when that incident happened. Thank fuck the fire marshals were on their game.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    A car has to burn for a long time to threaten the driver, but he only has to be hit once. I can't envision a crash where an engine fire develops so quickly that a few extra seconds matters. Cars don't explode into flames as they once did, and they aren't the fragile V10s from the era either.

    TeeMan
  • TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    Bring of explosive release bolts like on fighter jets! Kablamo!

    steam_sig.png
    Jazz
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    A car has to burn for a long time to threaten the driver, but he only has to be hit once. I can't envision a crash where an engine fire develops so quickly that a few extra seconds matters. Cars don't explode into flames as they once did, and they aren't the fragile V10s from the era either.

    True, but it's still scary. I know the cars are far more capable of handling it than they used to be, and marshals generally very much on the ball too, but I've seen enough F1 fires from years gone by that I can't help but worry until I see the driver get out.

    As I've said the halo has proven itself, definitely. The thing works and it's likely properly saved lives already. Instances of it protecting the driver are going to be more common than it hindering them. I just recognise that it has certain (relatively moderate) downsides too, albeit ones that can mostly be mitigated elsewhere.

    altid
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    What an absolute shitshow by Ferrari. They are ridiculously incompetent this year, and LeClerc is paying the price.

    GnomeTankdavidsdurions
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited May 25
    Hamilton could have gone in to the 1:09's if his final sector hadn't been ragged. Was great to see his emotion after that. He clearly wanted that badly, especially with the death of Niki. I expect him to put in a typical Hamilton drive tomorrow and spank the field.

    Ferrari...what can I even say. What a shit show. Completely flabbergasted with how they continue to find ways to fuck up.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    altidTeeMan
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    WTF1 has a really nice summary of the Niki Lauda tributes the various teams are running.

    Now if you'll excuse me, someone is peeling onions in here...

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