The problem I've been running in to, especially as Ana/Zen, is that half decent junkrats don't let you fight them at range, they use a mine to jump around whatever shield tanks you have protecting you and just instakill you before you can hurt them enough to kill them.
If Junkrat is having to minejump around the shield to kill you then he's telegraphing it. Someone should be reacting to this. If you're not and just letting him land and murder you then it's your fault. If you can't see him to react then you're in a bad position. If you were in a good position and he did a circus jump to get to you and dropped a precision pill and mine to kill you, then they deserve credit for making a good play.
It's always "your fault git gud scrub" isn't it? No, it can't possibly be that blizzard are shit at balancing anything despite the community screaming solutions since the games inception.
The games got problems, stop blaming every except the developers. You can't have perfect positioning 100% of the time, because if you want to be healing your team without dying to the enemy frontline that means putting yourself in a spot where junkrats will jump on you and you get instagibbed with no D.Va to eat his attacks.
if you want to be healing your team without dying to the enemy frontline that means putting yourself in a spot where junkrats will jump on you and you get instagibbed with no D.Va to eat his attacks.
The problem I've been running in to, especially as Ana/Zen, is that half decent junkrats don't let you fight them at range, they use a mine to jump around whatever shield tanks you have protecting you and just instakill you before you can hurt them enough to kill them.
If Junkrat is having to minejump around the shield to kill you then he's telegraphing it. Someone should be reacting to this. If you're not and just letting him land and murder you then it's your fault. If you can't see him to react then you're in a bad position. If you were in a good position and he did a circus jump to get to you and dropped a precision pill and mine to kill you, then they deserve credit for making a good play.
It's always "your fault git gud scrub" isn't it? No, it can't possibly be that blizzard are shit at balancing anything despite the community screaming solutions since the games inception.
The games got problems, stop blaming every except the developers. You can't have perfect positioning 100% of the time, because if you want to be healing your team without dying to the enemy frontline that means putting yourself in a spot where junkrats will jump on you and you get instagibbed with no D.Va to eat his attacks.
The community screaming solutions since the game's inception is not evidence that the balance is bad. It's evidence that the game has a playerbase.
Maybe it's not you that needs to git gud. Maybe it's the rest of your team. Point being, Junkrat does not teleport in behind you. He launches himself with a loud noise over the battlefield at a fairly slow speed and in a predictable arc. Hammond and Doomfist are far bigger threats to appear on top of you and murder you.
Sometimes perceived problems with the game are mistakes that you don't know you're making. Junkrat's mine jump range is not large. If you got killed by it, think about where he came from. Did he flank and no one saw it? Maybe taking up a position with better vision of the flanks would be better. Is he just jumping over the frontline? You know it's going to happen so keep an ear and eye out for the sound and take cover or alert your team to watch out for him.
Several hundred to many thousands of players who do nothing but play your game are somehow uninformed and wrong in their assessments of the failings and shortcomings of said game?
Not a SINGLE one of those people could POSSIBLY be correct?
Several hundred to many thousands of players who do nothing but play your game are somehow uninformed and wrong in their assessments of the failings and shortcomings of said game?
Not a SINGLE one of those people could POSSIBLY be correct?
Statistics are very much against Blizzard here.
I don't think this is a profitable line of argument for you. The folks who play the game so much and so well they get paid money for it do not have a problem with Junkrat.
Season 2 saw him used for a whole 36 minutes.
Contrast with Ana's 10+ hours of playtime. Zen's up around ten times Ana's numbers. If they were really so heavily countered by Junkrat then the rat would see a whole lot more play.
Three cheers for mcrees who just hide in a corner waiting for their ult to charge.
I had no idea that was a thing
I assume it's kids. It's great when it's someone on the other team though. I've seen reapers do it too. Largely absent from team fights until it's time to drop down from the rafters and ult and get killed quickly.
Several hundred to many thousands of players who do nothing but play your game are somehow uninformed and wrong in their assessments of the failings and shortcomings of said game?
Not a SINGLE one of those people could POSSIBLY be correct?
Statistics are very much against Blizzard here.
The folks who play the game so much and so well they get paid money for it do not have a problem with Junkrat.
To be fair, those people are not playing the same game the rest of the player base is and no game should be balanced around that level of play.
That said I don't think there's a big issue with him.
Several hundred to many thousands of players who do nothing but play your game are somehow uninformed and wrong in their assessments of the failings and shortcomings of said game?
Not a SINGLE one of those people could POSSIBLY be correct?
Statistics are very much against Blizzard here.
Considering that most of them have wildly varying and mutually incompatible views of what's wrong? Yup.
Several hundred to many thousands of players who do nothing but play your game are somehow uninformed and wrong in their assessments of the failings and shortcomings of said game?
Several hundred to many thousands of players who do nothing but play your game are somehow uninformed and wrong in their assessments of the failings and shortcomings of said game?
Not a SINGLE one of those people could POSSIBLY be correct?
Statistics are very much against Blizzard here.
Considering that most of them have wildly varying and mutually incompatible views of what's wrong? Yup.
This exactly. The playerbase does not have anything close to an agreement on most balance issues. Certainly not on Junkrat. If the playerbase is widely split between Junkrat sucks, Junkrat is fine, and Junkrat is OP, someone is wrong. That's kinda how that has to work. Best course of action there is to do nothing.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
You know, when the enemy DPS is getting around the frontline and deleting the healers, maybe you should turn around
You know, when the enemy DPS is getting around the frontline and deleting the healers, maybe you should turn around
No, looking backwards is against my life philosophy.
Coinage on
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited May 2019
As much as I think Overwatch will forever have balance problems (which will only get more frequent as the roster gets larger), most of these can be mitigated by adjusting the playstyle of the team to compensate.
If the backline is positioning themselves correctly and a Junkrat is close enough to instantly delete a backline hero then it is entirely the rest of the team's fault that they didn't adjust themselves - peel, shield, whatever - before he could get off the kill. There are plenty of other enemy heroes far better equipped to make that kind of pick (my gripe with Doomfist is precisely this).
If the team was positioned properly (or advancing properly, whatever) - if a Junkrat that somehow managed to get within instagib distance, either the team completely ignored the Junkrat through no fault of the backline players, or the Junkrat wasted a shitload of time trying to be stealthy, which is about as useful as a flanker Reinhardt. The things a Junkrat has to do in order to get within that (disgustingly) effective range are massively telegraphed and make him a huge, easy priority target.
Again, it's the similar principle to Reaper - Reaper can utterly delete backline heroes (especially Zen) in about 2 hits, and with his improved teleport and wraith it's a fucking nightmare trying to deal with it, but it can still be easily dealt with, using some behavioural adjustments on the part of the entire team as long as everyone was correctly positioned in the first place.
Of course, this is all completely dependent on the ability of the team to actually make behavioural adjustments, which we know is on average less fruitful than herding flies on shit. (At least flies know where the payload is)
I think the problem would be 90% solved if Blizzard just put something like the OWL team comp indicators in the main game. Because I can say from experience in DotA that when I have questions about whether I should/shouldn't be taking a course of action, the first thing I do is glance at the top of the screen, check the enemy heroes - who's up, who's dead, am I forgetting an obvious problem hero who will kill me if I do X? - and then I do or don't do the thing. I do it for strategic decisions - should I push this one extra wave before backing? - and I do it for split-second decisions - should I blink in and initiate now?
But in OW, it's almost every game where I'm reminded "oh yeah, I forgot Reaper!" or "oh, shit, a pickoff isn't a pickoff against a Mercy is it?" Because it's really hard to keep your head in the game while also remembering 6 heroes and all their relevant abilities.* And that team comp menu is just too distracting and time-wasting in the middle of the action. Hell, this might just be me, but I even struggle to scan quickly over 6/12 hero icons and process them all when they're spread over the whole damn screen. If they were smaller and placed together OWL-viewer-style the whole process would be much easier and quicker.
I really do this think this is a pressing QoL issue. Just like when the killfeed became a default option, it would raise the standard of play at all SRs. Think about how many times you or a key team member just forgot about one of your 6 enemy heroes and what they might do unchecked. Now imagine that there was, say, a 30% better chance that they would remember because the information was right there on the screen. How much better would this game feel in pub matches?
Heaps better.
The only genuine counter-argument for the idea that I can think of is that it would blunt any surprise picks. IMO that's just saying "let's not raise the level of play at all ranks so that players can occasionally pull off a niche cheese tactic!" But even if we assume that this is a valid strategy that we should even consider protecting - by sheer obfuscation - I just think the pros outweigh the one con by a country mile.
*IMO the mental load might also become lighter if we went 2/2/2 as well. I may not like 2/2/2, but when only two or maybe three heroes are the kind of hero that can just jump a backline from out of nowhere, then it becomes way easier to chunk that info in your head. But when you're playing 4+ dps slobbernockles then it gets real hard.
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
I think it would be super useful to have team player portraits displayed up top right with indicators for who's currently dead/respawning/has ult openly displayed for teammate's UI, as opposed to having to tab for that information
Information accessibility in general could just lead to better Overwatch play across the board
PotG: Nepal. I'm waiting around a corner for enemy respawns to trickle in, and I hear Ashe's clodhoppers thumping towards me. I steady my nerves, sense the moment has come, swing around the corner, slap her in the face with my ult and blink past her into the Tracer and Sombra coming up behind.
Unbeknownst to me, Ashe has done what all Ashes do when threatened - she fired her coach gun - and she is not where I left her.
The Pulse Bomb blows, and Ashe and Tracer and Sombra and I are all vaporized together.
Mah nah mah nah.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
So I finally went through with implementing one of my Bad Ideas in the Workshop: Extreme Role Lock, or enforced 1-1-1-1-1-1 composition. In this ruleset, applicable to anything with six-player teams, each team has exactly one each of Tank (barrier Tanks), Bruiser (non-barrier tanks), Offense (mobility-heavy shooting types), Defense (snipers, turrets, and snarers), Healers (Supports with the strongest emphasis on healing), and Supports (Supports with weaker healing but higher "utility").
The share code is NRG83. I... have no idea how to find people to (play-)test these things. It seems to work with the AI, though the AI isn't restricted by what's available at Hero Select.
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
I think the problem would be 90% solved if Blizzard just put something like the OWL team comp indicators in the main game. Because I can say from experience in DotA that when I have questions about whether I should/shouldn't be taking a course of action, the first thing I do is glance at the top of the screen, check the enemy heroes - who's up, who's dead, am I forgetting an obvious problem hero who will kill me if I do X? - and then I do or don't do the thing. I do it for strategic decisions - should I push this one extra wave before backing? - and I do it for split-second decisions - should I blink in and initiate now?
But in OW, it's almost every game where I'm reminded "oh yeah, I forgot Reaper!" or "oh, shit, a pickoff isn't a pickoff against a Mercy is it?" Because it's really hard to keep your head in the game while also remembering 6 heroes and all their relevant abilities.* And that team comp menu is just too distracting and time-wasting in the middle of the action. Hell, this might just be me, but I even struggle to scan quickly over 6/12 hero icons and process them all when they're spread over the whole damn screen. If they were smaller and placed together OWL-viewer-style the whole process would be much easier and quicker.
I really do this think this is a pressing QoL issue. Just like when the killfeed became a default option, it would raise the standard of play at all SRs. Think about how many times you or a key team member just forgot about one of your 6 enemy heroes and what they might do unchecked. Now imagine that there was, say, a 30% better chance that they would remember because the information was right there on the screen. How much better would this game feel in pub matches?
Heaps better.
The only genuine counter-argument for the idea that I can think of is that it would blunt any surprise picks. IMO that's just saying "let's not raise the level of play at all ranks so that players can occasionally pull off a niche cheese tactic!" But even if we assume that this is a valid strategy that we should even consider protecting - by sheer obfuscation - I just think the pros outweigh the one con by a country mile.
*IMO the mental load might also become lighter if we went 2/2/2 as well. I may not like 2/2/2, but when only two or maybe three heroes are the kind of hero that can just jump a backline from out of nowhere, then it becomes way easier to chunk that info in your head. But when you're playing 4+ dps slobbernockles then it gets real hard.
That's a good idea. Although I feel that would only alleviate the current problems rather than fix them.
The way I see it, th ebiggest flaw with OW is baked in to it's foundation, and it's something Paladins was able to sidestep with their card system. The problem being that no matter how good you are at any given OW character, there's a very strict Rock Paper Scissors to everything and if someone half as competent as you are picks the guy that kills your guy, your personal skill means jack diddly shit suddenly.
So you'd think "Ah but I can switch to something they don't counter or pick someone that counters them!". Except you sacrifice all your ult charge if you switch, which leads to the other biggest flaw with the game: Ult is what wins games. The biggest piece of evidence of this is that I've had both comp and quickplay matches where my team and I were just completely clowning on the enemy team, they just can't break past us and we're getting killstreaks left and right, everyone is on fire... And then three people on the enemy team hit Q and 4 of us die while they roll in to sweep the point.
Neither of those things feel fun, they're just frustrating and make you feel helpless. It brings back the same issue that a lot of MOBAs have, in that my individual skill and contribution don't fucking matter because all it takes is one or two weak links or incompetent boobs to bring everything down and turn my game into a respawn simulator.
Blizzard could fix this by allowing players to carry ult charge to a new character (or only lose a chunk of their Ult charge, not all of it) or just by toning Ults down across the board. I doubt we'll see it unless someone can make something like that in the Workshop and it becomes more popular than the actual game though.
People extremely overvalue ult charge when switching. Ult economy isn't really a thing in ladder games. Nerfing all ults might make pro games more interesting but it would make the game less fun to play. Ults are fun, a big reason that the mystery modes suck is that you just never get to ult
I made another of my dumb ideas a reality. Zenyatta has lost the ability to crouch, but gained the ability to lift himself up by the seat of his pants.
I think the problem would be 90% solved if Blizzard just put something like the OWL team comp indicators in the main game. Because I can say from experience in DotA that when I have questions about whether I should/shouldn't be taking a course of action, the first thing I do is glance at the top of the screen, check the enemy heroes - who's up, who's dead, am I forgetting an obvious problem hero who will kill me if I do X? - and then I do or don't do the thing. I do it for strategic decisions - should I push this one extra wave before backing? - and I do it for split-second decisions - should I blink in and initiate now?
But in OW, it's almost every game where I'm reminded "oh yeah, I forgot Reaper!" or "oh, shit, a pickoff isn't a pickoff against a Mercy is it?" Because it's really hard to keep your head in the game while also remembering 6 heroes and all their relevant abilities.* And that team comp menu is just too distracting and time-wasting in the middle of the action. Hell, this might just be me, but I even struggle to scan quickly over 6/12 hero icons and process them all when they're spread over the whole damn screen. If they were smaller and placed together OWL-viewer-style the whole process would be much easier and quicker.
I really do this think this is a pressing QoL issue. Just like when the killfeed became a default option, it would raise the standard of play at all SRs. Think about how many times you or a key team member just forgot about one of your 6 enemy heroes and what they might do unchecked. Now imagine that there was, say, a 30% better chance that they would remember because the information was right there on the screen. How much better would this game feel in pub matches?
Heaps better.
The only genuine counter-argument for the idea that I can think of is that it would blunt any surprise picks. IMO that's just saying "let's not raise the level of play at all ranks so that players can occasionally pull off a niche cheese tactic!" But even if we assume that this is a valid strategy that we should even consider protecting - by sheer obfuscation - I just think the pros outweigh the one con by a country mile.
*IMO the mental load might also become lighter if we went 2/2/2 as well. I may not like 2/2/2, but when only two or maybe three heroes are the kind of hero that can just jump a backline from out of nowhere, then it becomes way easier to chunk that info in your head. But when you're playing 4+ dps slobbernockles then it gets real hard.
That's a good idea. Although I feel that would only alleviate the current problems rather than fix them.
The way I see it, th ebiggest flaw with OW is baked in to it's foundation, and it's something Paladins was able to sidestep with their card system. The problem being that no matter how good you are at any given OW character, there's a very strict Rock Paper Scissors to everything and if someone half as competent as you are picks the guy that kills your guy, your personal skill means jack diddly shit suddenly.
So you'd think "Ah but I can switch to something they don't counter or pick someone that counters them!". Except you sacrifice all your ult charge if you switch, which leads to the other biggest flaw with the game: Ult is what wins games. The biggest piece of evidence of this is that I've had both comp and quickplay matches where my team and I were just completely clowning on the enemy team, they just can't break past us and we're getting killstreaks left and right, everyone is on fire... And then three people on the enemy team hit Q and 4 of us die while they roll in to sweep the point.
Neither of those things feel fun, they're just frustrating and make you feel helpless. It brings back the same issue that a lot of MOBAs have, in that my individual skill and contribution don't fucking matter because all it takes is one or two weak links or incompetent boobs to bring everything down and turn my game into a respawn simulator.
Blizzard could fix this by allowing players to carry ult charge to a new character (or only lose a chunk of their Ult charge, not all of it) or just by toning Ults down across the board. I doubt we'll see it unless someone can make something like that in the Workshop and it becomes more popular than the actual game though.
I agree with you that there are deep deep ramifications to OW having no kind of progression/customisation in game. And the biggest one is that counter picks are stronger in this game than the other mobas that I've played. But I don't know that it'd be half as popular without that slick, minimalist feeling to it. I feel like a few HUD changes won't ruin that feel, but I'm not sure about adding some sort of upgrade system.
That said, if you notice that a team has a high he ult bank to spend, the best play is to force a fight early - both in space and in time - and plan to fall back alive, but if necessary take the fight on the respawn. By forcing your enemy's resources just to let them SEE their objective, you make that second fight FOR the objective more even. A second strategy is just to see the teamfight loss coming and expend no resources. Win the next fight, and the fight after that, because you didn:'t overspend like they did.
Mystery Heroes is the ONE MODE that never leaves arcade, "ult charge should carry over" is the ONE agreed-upon change the community wants, and we've been askin' for it for years. I feel like there must be something very challenging under the hood that's prevented blizz from doing it.
If it were easy they woulda' done it by now, right?
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Mystery Heroes is the ONE MODE that never leaves arcade, "ult charge should carry over" is the ONE agreed-upon change the community wants, and we've been askin' for it for years. I feel like there must be something very challenging under the hood that's prevented blizz from doing it.
If it were easy they woulda' done it by now, right?
But people made it work using the workshop. Can't be that hard.
Mystery Heroes is the ONE MODE that never leaves arcade, "ult charge should carry over" is the ONE agreed-upon change the community wants, and we've been askin' for it for years. I feel like there must be something very challenging under the hood that's prevented blizz from doing it.
If it were easy they woulda' done it by now, right?
But people made it work using the workshop. Can't be that hard.
K wtf Blizz.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited May 2019
They were talking about how one of the early workshop things Blizzard made was a 2-2-2 mystery heroes lock, and I'm just sitting there going no one asked for that. Ult carry over and no duplicate heroes is the constant request for MH to make it a great mode.
edit: I also saw this morning something about the Immortal e-sport group (who own the LA Valiant) looking to buy out the Optic e-sport stuff (the Houston Outlaws owners), and that they would either have to sell the team right away or disband it because OWL states you can't own more than 1 team. So that's nice.
Ehhh some people asked for that. I think it would make it more boring though personally. Part of the MH appeal is you get a bunch of team comps you never see and you try your best to make them work.
The trouble comes when you do well enough to get to 98% ult and then get randomly sniped, and then get kicked back to 0%. Keeping your ult charge isn’t some oppressive thing, even though your hero changes, you couldn’t have planned on the hero you got.
I'd wager that implementing Ult carryover in MH is "easy" (remembering that shipping any software change to a game played by multiple hundred thousands of players is never genuinely "easy") and also low-priority. They could tie up a programmer for a week making the necessary changes, or that programmer could be chasing down the latest Reaper out-of-bounds bug, or finding out why Server Instance 12 crashed when Sombra translocated at the same time that both Tracers used Recall, or they could be working on the new physics required for the new hero they're working on, or or or...
"Make ult carry over in MH" strikes me as the kind of task that they're entirely aware of and just never makes it to the top of the queue, is what I'm saying.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
I'd wager that implementing Ult carryover in MH is "easy" (remembering that shipping any software change to a game played by multiple hundred thousands of players is never genuinely "easy") and also low-priority. They could tie up a programmer for a week making the necessary changes, or that programmer could be chasing down the latest Reaper out-of-bounds bug, or finding out why Server Instance 12 crashed when Sombra translocated at the same time that both Tracers used Recall, or they could be working on the new physics required for the new hero they're working on, or or or...
"Make ult carry over in MH" strikes me as the kind of task that they're entirely aware of and just never makes it to the top of the queue, is what I'm saying.
For sure now it's possible using Workshop tech, and we know they can make Arcade modes out of that. I think it's an intentional design choice for whatever reason.
Mystery Heroes is the ONE MODE that never leaves arcade, "ult charge should carry over" is the ONE agreed-upon change the community wants, and we've been askin' for it for years. I feel like there must be something very challenging under the hood that's prevented blizz from doing it.
If it were easy they woulda' done it by now, right?
Ult charge shouldn't carry over. If it did, nobody would actually try and play their character - they'd just rush to build ult and then suicide rush into the enemy until they got the character whose ult they wanted to use. I know I'm in the minority, but I firmly believe it's better as is.
Houk the Namebringer on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Mystery Heroes is the ONE MODE that never leaves arcade, "ult charge should carry over" is the ONE agreed-upon change the community wants, and we've been askin' for it for years. I feel like there must be something very challenging under the hood that's prevented blizz from doing it.
If it were easy they woulda' done it by now, right?
Ult charge shouldn't carry over. If it did, nobody would actually try and play their character - they'd just rush to build ult and then suicide rush into the enemy until they got the character whose ult they wanted to use. I know I'm in the minority, but I firmly believe it's better as is.
Honestly, that's a good point. Considering how many people would suicide the whole match until they got a character they liked, I can see people doing that too.
That's a slippery slope fallacy. People will try to instalock the character they want anyway, and it's not common for people to throw a fit and suicide because you took their favorite character as it is. The only way loss of ult on character switch would work right now is if they drastically tone Ults down. As it stands, who wins and who loses past the beginner tier stuff is either which team has a hitscan headshot guy with aimbot level accuracy and/or who has the most ults to pop at once.
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It's always "your fault git gud scrub" isn't it? No, it can't possibly be that blizzard are shit at balancing anything despite the community screaming solutions since the games inception.
The games got problems, stop blaming every except the developers. You can't have perfect positioning 100% of the time, because if you want to be healing your team without dying to the enemy frontline that means putting yourself in a spot where junkrats will jump on you and you get instagibbed with no D.Va to eat his attacks.
No it doesn't mean that.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
The community screaming solutions since the game's inception is not evidence that the balance is bad. It's evidence that the game has a playerbase.
Maybe it's not you that needs to git gud. Maybe it's the rest of your team. Point being, Junkrat does not teleport in behind you. He launches himself with a loud noise over the battlefield at a fairly slow speed and in a predictable arc. Hammond and Doomfist are far bigger threats to appear on top of you and murder you.
Sometimes perceived problems with the game are mistakes that you don't know you're making. Junkrat's mine jump range is not large. If you got killed by it, think about where he came from. Did he flank and no one saw it? Maybe taking up a position with better vision of the flanks would be better. Is he just jumping over the frontline? You know it's going to happen so keep an ear and eye out for the sound and take cover or alert your team to watch out for him.
Not a SINGLE one of those people could POSSIBLY be correct?
Statistics are very much against Blizzard here.
I don't think this is a profitable line of argument for you. The folks who play the game so much and so well they get paid money for it do not have a problem with Junkrat.
Season 2 saw him used for a whole 36 minutes.
Contrast with Ana's 10+ hours of playtime. Zen's up around ten times Ana's numbers. If they were really so heavily countered by Junkrat then the rat would see a whole lot more play.
I assume it's kids. It's great when it's someone on the other team though. I've seen reapers do it too. Largely absent from team fights until it's time to drop down from the rafters and ult and get killed quickly.
To be fair, those people are not playing the same game the rest of the player base is and no game should be balanced around that level of play.
That said I don't think there's a big issue with him.
Considering that most of them have wildly varying and mutually incompatible views of what's wrong? Yup.
Yes people can be wrong and uninformed.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
This exactly. The playerbase does not have anything close to an agreement on most balance issues. Certainly not on Junkrat. If the playerbase is widely split between Junkrat sucks, Junkrat is fine, and Junkrat is OP, someone is wrong. That's kinda how that has to work. Best course of action there is to do nothing.
If the backline is positioning themselves correctly and a Junkrat is close enough to instantly delete a backline hero then it is entirely the rest of the team's fault that they didn't adjust themselves - peel, shield, whatever - before he could get off the kill. There are plenty of other enemy heroes far better equipped to make that kind of pick (my gripe with Doomfist is precisely this).
If the team was positioned properly (or advancing properly, whatever) - if a Junkrat that somehow managed to get within instagib distance, either the team completely ignored the Junkrat through no fault of the backline players, or the Junkrat wasted a shitload of time trying to be stealthy, which is about as useful as a flanker Reinhardt. The things a Junkrat has to do in order to get within that (disgustingly) effective range are massively telegraphed and make him a huge, easy priority target.
Again, it's the similar principle to Reaper - Reaper can utterly delete backline heroes (especially Zen) in about 2 hits, and with his improved teleport and wraith it's a fucking nightmare trying to deal with it, but it can still be easily dealt with, using some behavioural adjustments on the part of the entire team as long as everyone was correctly positioned in the first place.
Of course, this is all completely dependent on the ability of the team to actually make behavioural adjustments, which we know is on average less fruitful than herding flies on shit. (At least flies know where the payload is)
But in OW, it's almost every game where I'm reminded "oh yeah, I forgot Reaper!" or "oh, shit, a pickoff isn't a pickoff against a Mercy is it?" Because it's really hard to keep your head in the game while also remembering 6 heroes and all their relevant abilities.* And that team comp menu is just too distracting and time-wasting in the middle of the action. Hell, this might just be me, but I even struggle to scan quickly over 6/12 hero icons and process them all when they're spread over the whole damn screen. If they were smaller and placed together OWL-viewer-style the whole process would be much easier and quicker.
I really do this think this is a pressing QoL issue. Just like when the killfeed became a default option, it would raise the standard of play at all SRs. Think about how many times you or a key team member just forgot about one of your 6 enemy heroes and what they might do unchecked. Now imagine that there was, say, a 30% better chance that they would remember because the information was right there on the screen. How much better would this game feel in pub matches?
Heaps better.
The only genuine counter-argument for the idea that I can think of is that it would blunt any surprise picks. IMO that's just saying "let's not raise the level of play at all ranks so that players can occasionally pull off a niche cheese tactic!" But even if we assume that this is a valid strategy that we should even consider protecting - by sheer obfuscation - I just think the pros outweigh the one con by a country mile.
*IMO the mental load might also become lighter if we went 2/2/2 as well. I may not like 2/2/2, but when only two or maybe three heroes are the kind of hero that can just jump a backline from out of nowhere, then it becomes way easier to chunk that info in your head. But when you're playing 4+ dps slobbernockles then it gets real hard.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
Information accessibility in general could just lead to better Overwatch play across the board
Unbeknownst to me, Ashe has done what all Ashes do when threatened - she fired her coach gun - and she is not where I left her.
The Pulse Bomb blows, and Ashe and Tracer and Sombra and I are all vaporized together.
Mah nah mah nah.
The share code is NRG83. I... have no idea how to find people to (play-)test these things. It seems to work with the AI, though the AI isn't restricted by what's available at Hero Select.
That's a good idea. Although I feel that would only alleviate the current problems rather than fix them.
The way I see it, th ebiggest flaw with OW is baked in to it's foundation, and it's something Paladins was able to sidestep with their card system. The problem being that no matter how good you are at any given OW character, there's a very strict Rock Paper Scissors to everything and if someone half as competent as you are picks the guy that kills your guy, your personal skill means jack diddly shit suddenly.
So you'd think "Ah but I can switch to something they don't counter or pick someone that counters them!". Except you sacrifice all your ult charge if you switch, which leads to the other biggest flaw with the game: Ult is what wins games. The biggest piece of evidence of this is that I've had both comp and quickplay matches where my team and I were just completely clowning on the enemy team, they just can't break past us and we're getting killstreaks left and right, everyone is on fire... And then three people on the enemy team hit Q and 4 of us die while they roll in to sweep the point.
Neither of those things feel fun, they're just frustrating and make you feel helpless. It brings back the same issue that a lot of MOBAs have, in that my individual skill and contribution don't fucking matter because all it takes is one or two weak links or incompetent boobs to bring everything down and turn my game into a respawn simulator.
Blizzard could fix this by allowing players to carry ult charge to a new character (or only lose a chunk of their Ult charge, not all of it) or just by toning Ults down across the board. I doubt we'll see it unless someone can make something like that in the Workshop and it becomes more popular than the actual game though.
That makes sense.
They should make a new muscly tank who can pick opponents up and then carries them around for a little while. And then piledrive them into the ground.
The share code for this is 8G5DG.
I agree with you that there are deep deep ramifications to OW having no kind of progression/customisation in game. And the biggest one is that counter picks are stronger in this game than the other mobas that I've played. But I don't know that it'd be half as popular without that slick, minimalist feeling to it. I feel like a few HUD changes won't ruin that feel, but I'm not sure about adding some sort of upgrade system.
That said, if you notice that a team has a high he ult bank to spend, the best play is to force a fight early - both in space and in time - and plan to fall back alive, but if necessary take the fight on the respawn. By forcing your enemy's resources just to let them SEE their objective, you make that second fight FOR the objective more even. A second strategy is just to see the teamfight loss coming and expend no resources. Win the next fight, and the fight after that, because you didn:'t overspend like they did.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
This is basically the OW tagline.
If it were easy they woulda' done it by now, right?
But people made it work using the workshop. Can't be that hard.
K wtf Blizz.
edit: I also saw this morning something about the Immortal e-sport group (who own the LA Valiant) looking to buy out the Optic e-sport stuff (the Houston Outlaws owners), and that they would either have to sell the team right away or disband it because OWL states you can't own more than 1 team. So that's nice.
The trouble comes when you do well enough to get to 98% ult and then get randomly sniped, and then get kicked back to 0%. Keeping your ult charge isn’t some oppressive thing, even though your hero changes, you couldn’t have planned on the hero you got.
"Make ult carry over in MH" strikes me as the kind of task that they're entirely aware of and just never makes it to the top of the queue, is what I'm saying.
For sure now it's possible using Workshop tech, and we know they can make Arcade modes out of that. I think it's an intentional design choice for whatever reason.
Ult charge shouldn't carry over. If it did, nobody would actually try and play their character - they'd just rush to build ult and then suicide rush into the enemy until they got the character whose ult they wanted to use. I know I'm in the minority, but I firmly believe it's better as is.
Honestly, that's a good point. Considering how many people would suicide the whole match until they got a character they liked, I can see people doing that too.
I’m not convinced that’s a strategy that would work out for them, particularly when the other team is building ult faster by just playing their comp