GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited April 2019
Consumer SSD's made with modern NAND techniques that have a decent controller and some over provisioning should outlast the console relatively easily unless someone is just torture writing to the drive.
And driver failure means so much less today than it ever has. Everything is cloud synced and downloadable. You stick a new drive in it and it reconstitutes from the ether.
Plus my layman's understanding is that SSDs fail safely by just gradually losing capacity over time. Though I don't know what happens to the data that was already on there.
Consumer SSD's made with modern NAND techniques that have a decent controller and some over provisioning should outlast the console relatively easily unless someone is just torture writing to the drive.
And driver failure means so much less today than it ever has. Everything is cloud synced and downloadable. You stick a new drive in it and it reconstitutes from the ether.
Assuming, y'know, you're paying for PlayStation Plus. If not you're screwed.
I can't believe they'll go for a SSD as the main form of storage, getting up to the sizes they'd need would cost way too much.
I'd expect them to have a regular drive for storage, and the SSD just for running the OS and active games, kind of like how the 360 originally used the HDD.
Some rumors around a Sony Switch competitor cited a technology, possibly an AI, that allowed the "streaming" of game levels to keep only a partial install of the game at any one time. So you're playing level 3, maybe the game has that and level 4 on local storage. Then its downloading level 5 in the background and deleting level 2.
The idea here was to save on limited SD card space in a portable, but maybe its also applicable to supporting limited SSD size, especially for 4k textures. They could even be loading this from a UHD blu-ray, making physical media more relevant again.
Oops you put fast travel in the game and now it has to load twice, once to ssd and once to ram every time? I can’t see that working.
Super linear game experiences are rare but also generally don’t have nearly as much loading aside from first boot because the devs know what’s next and already do this.
Reputably manufactured SSDs are typically perfectly capable of managing themselves for very long periods even with heavy use. My PC's current SSD(Samsung 850 EVO) currently has 25,522 run hours and close to 24.5TB of writes to it over ~4 years and it still reports as fine. Even if Sony cheaps out with off-brand SSDs I can't imagine many consoles seeing use rates remotely similar, much less to require replacement before the next PS generation at least.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Plus my layman's understanding is that SSDs fail safely by just gradually losing capacity over time. Though I don't know what happens to the data that was already on there.
A properly function SSD will have moved relevant data to NAND that wasn't failing. That's why over provisioning is important, and why people tell you to keep as much free space on your SSD as possible, so the controller has places to move data and empty space to use for write-leveling.
Oops you put fast travel in the game and now it has to load twice, once to ssd and once to ram every time? I can’t see that working.
Super linear game experiences are rare but also generally don’t have nearly as much loading aside from first boot because the devs know what’s next and already do this.
They've demo'd the fast travel in Spider-Man, so whatever they're doing can handle that.
The streaming example could work if it's for entire games rather than streaming parts of one game. Yes, you'd need to mask the initial load, but games put unskippable splash screens to hide the initial load already.
I have no problem believing that Sony engineers are smarter than me when it comes to technical solutions to these problems, but I also have difficulty believing that they would be told that a massive SSD for mass console production would be okay compared to a drive a fraction of the size along with a more affordable one for mass storage. Even if they can get much better deals than consumers can, the price difference when you're making millions of them is going to be enormous.
Honestly, it needs to have a *really* good game lineup for me to actually upgrade off my PS4. Which barely got used as-is for anything other than Persona 5.
The hardware upgrades aren't really upgrades for me if there's nothing I want to play on it.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
PlayStations always end up being secondary consoles for me, basically just for a handful of exclusives; which is absolutely fine but I know I can wait through some price drops or maybe even further. I always end up with one eventually, though.
Last console cycle was weird because neither the Xbox One nor the PS4 grabbed me at all to begin with, which was part of how I ended up getting back into PC games as a primary. The consoles both eventually came good in subsequent years but I only got a PS4 (a second hand Pro) last year. I'm not going to be in a hurry.
Although HZD2 will be awfully tempting. Not gonna deny that.
Still curious to see news and how the machine turns out, though.
Ever since literally all of the JRPG devs decided that portable consoles were the de facto way to experience RPGs, I haven't seriously used my PS4 for anything since God of War. I may eventually one day get a PS5 because technology, but there would have to be a real RPG renaissance for me to get it sooner rather than later.
Ever since literally all of the JRPG devs decided that portable consoles were the de facto way to experience RPGs, I haven't seriously used my PS4 for anything since God of War. I may eventually one day get a PS5 because technology, but there would have to be a real RPG renaissance for me to get it sooner rather than later.
That's mostly on Japan than anything else. We can't really blame that on anything other than Japan's populace utterly latching onto the mobile market, and the Japanese gaming market responding. It's also just Japan. CDPR, Ubisoft, and plenty of other Western publishers have RPGs on home consoles. We're also running into publishers like BandaiNamco putting more JRPGs on PS4 and on PC lately, and Square's taken an approach to splitting their market between mobile and consoles.
I can't blame Japanese publishers. Nowadays when you see a JRPG on a console, they're trying just as hard to sell the game to the West. Because a JRPG on a modern console just won't sell that well on their shores anymore.
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Descendant XSkyrim is my god now.Outpost 31Registered Userregular
Is there supposed to be any news on the PS5 at E3?
Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Sony isn't doing an E3 presentation at all as far as I know. They might keep copying Nintendo and do a 'Direct' style video of announcements around the same time, but I really doubt anything on PS5 being released yet.
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
edited May 2019
Sony aren't going to E3 this year so nope. tbh I would expect that the first concrete info will be the launch press conference (probably spring next year) or the PSX thing if there is one this year
Based on Twitter, we're getting a Death Stranding trailer/presentation on Wednesday and various other content of a similar sort in the week/s following.
Fewer and quicker load times are literally all I care about for the next gen. Give me Skyrim/Witcher 3/Horizon Zero Dawn with single digit load, save, and fast travel times. I don't even care if they look any better. I am scared to think about how much of my free time has been spent staring at a screen waiting to play the game.
Fewer and quicker load times are literally all I care about for the next gen. Give me Skyrim/Witcher 3/Horizon Zero Dawn with single digit load, save, and fast travel times. I don't even care if they look any better. I am scared to think about how much of my free time has been spent staring at a screen waiting to play the game.
I finally picked up Witcher 3, and yes this. I've no interest in getting a Pro for higher framrates or slightly more glistening entrails, but if it promised to cut the load times I'd buy one today.
I may finally play Witcher 3 if it gets the benefit of those load times demo’d for Spider-Man. But I also don’t for a moment think that it’s as simple as “PS4 : PS5 :: Scooter : Ducati Superbike.” There will likely have to be some tinkering for PS4 games to not fundamentally break somehow. Maybe. Who knows?
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Descendant XSkyrim is my god now.Outpost 31Registered Userregular
...just how bad are the load times for Witcher 3?
Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
They’re not horrible, but they aren’t great. It’s only an issue when you get further into the game and want to fast travel between major areas, then it can take a while. But near-instant loads in general would make it a far smoother experience.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The Witcher 3 on PC with an SSD is a transcendent experience compared to console.
Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.
Descendant XSkyrim is my god now.Outpost 31Registered Userregular
edited May 2019
I’ve got an SSD in my Pro and I don’t think I’ve come across any horrible loading times in quite a while.
Shit works, my dudes.
Descendant X on
Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
An SSD in a PS4/XBox is great but it's still no M.2 SSD. I'd love to have a console with an M.2 interface but it's definitely not happening for at least two generations.
This is a pretty interesting post on resetera examining a Sony patent for SSD application and uh... internal configuration for maximal efficiency? While I could only grok it in the most superficial sense, conversations within seem to assert that what is described conveys a system that would enable what was demonstrated in the Spiderman demo, i.e. backwards compatibility with near instant load times.
Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.
On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.
Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.
On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.
External SSD is a bit faster for PS4, but the PS4 Pro definitely takes advantage of an SSD. Depends on the game, but it loads much faster on the Pro.
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
I'm speculating that one of the features will be enabling ray tracing in some backwards compatible games, maybe similar to Boost mode on PS4 Pro. Digital Foundry has been doing videos of enabling ray tracing on older 90s games and it can really be amazing. I have so many PSOne, PS2, PS3, PS4, PSP and Vita games (well, Persona 4 Golden) on my same PSN account for so long that having a single system that can play all of them would to me be the best system yet
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Ray Tracing is super hard on the system though. Like the 2080Ti needing to run games at medium on 4k to hit 60fps with RTX on. I’m sure they could optimise it better on a console with fixed hardware but 4K 60fps seems to be a big selling point and I don’t see it getting there.
Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.
On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.
External SSD is a bit faster for PS4, but the PS4 Pro definitely takes advantage of an SSD. Depends on the game, but it loads much faster on the Pro.
I seem to recall something about the Pro having a faster interface. SATA 3 vs the standard PS4's SATA 2 or somesuch, I forget.
Ray Tracing is super hard on the system though. Like the 2080Ti needing to run games at medium on 4k to hit 60fps with RTX on. I’m sure they could optimise it better on a console with fixed hardware but 4K 60fps seems to be a big selling point and I don’t see it getting there.
It’s a great tech that arrived too early.
I'm interested to how ray tracing affects the PSVR experience. I mean, sure, it will still be resolution limited due to the screen(s), and, honestly, the frame rate and overall smoothness is far, Far, FAR more important than pure pixel/triangle count. But if they can leverage the ray tracing hardware to improve performance in a 3D space (which it should) then that should, at least in theory, provide a boost to VR stability and performance (even if it doesn't increase the overall resolution and clarity).
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.
On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.
External SSD is a bit faster for PS4, but the PS4 Pro definitely takes advantage of an SSD. Depends on the game, but it loads much faster on the Pro.
I seem to recall something about the Pro having a faster interface. SATA 3 vs the standard PS4's SATA 2 or somesuch, I forget.
It does, yes. The SATA 2 interface on the OG model won't give any real speed boost with an SSD. That said, while the Pro will get some benefit, it's questionable whether it's worth the cost because the system still doesn't support the multithreading needed for true SSD performance. Your best bang for the buck is really a hybrid SSHD drive.
Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.
On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.
External SSD is a bit faster for PS4, but the PS4 Pro definitely takes advantage of an SSD. Depends on the game, but it loads much faster on the Pro.
I seem to recall something about the Pro having a faster interface. SATA 3 vs the standard PS4's SATA 2 or somesuch, I forget.
It does, yes. The SATA 2 interface on the OG model won't give any real speed boost with an SSD. That said, while the Pro will get some benefit, it's questionable whether it's worth the cost because the system still doesn't support the multithreading needed for true SSD performance. Your best bang for the buck is really a hybrid SSHD drive.
I have an SSHD in my laptop, a 2TB FireCuda as the D drive; can confirm the bang for the buck ratio is very good.
Navi shouldn't have any "ray tracing hardware" like the RTX series. Devs will still be able to pull off some raytracing tricks, but you can't set your expectations anywhere near what the dedicated RTX hardware is currently doing.
Things seems to be heating up as the current rumors are the PS4 is winding down with:
Death Stranding - Nov. 8th (to be confirmed today)
Last of Us 2 - Feb 2020 (per Jason Schrier on twitter)
Ghosts of Tushima - the final "big" PS4 game
PS5 Fall 2020
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
That really throws a wet blanket on my plans to pick up a PS4 Pro this summer. Guess I'll stick to the base PS4.
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Descendant XSkyrim is my god now.Outpost 31Registered Userregular
Nice. Perhaps I’ll start putting money aside now with Fall 2020 in mind.
Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
edited May 2019
If the PS5 is truely PS4 backwards compatible, it's probably a day one buy for me depending on the launch titles. The load times demo they showed off was pretty impressive.
Posts
And driver failure means so much less today than it ever has. Everything is cloud synced and downloadable. You stick a new drive in it and it reconstitutes from the ether.
Assuming, y'know, you're paying for PlayStation Plus. If not you're screwed.
Some rumors around a Sony Switch competitor cited a technology, possibly an AI, that allowed the "streaming" of game levels to keep only a partial install of the game at any one time. So you're playing level 3, maybe the game has that and level 4 on local storage. Then its downloading level 5 in the background and deleting level 2.
The idea here was to save on limited SD card space in a portable, but maybe its also applicable to supporting limited SSD size, especially for 4k textures. They could even be loading this from a UHD blu-ray, making physical media more relevant again.
Super linear game experiences are rare but also generally don’t have nearly as much loading aside from first boot because the devs know what’s next and already do this.
A properly function SSD will have moved relevant data to NAND that wasn't failing. That's why over provisioning is important, and why people tell you to keep as much free space on your SSD as possible, so the controller has places to move data and empty space to use for write-leveling.
They've demo'd the fast travel in Spider-Man, so whatever they're doing can handle that.
The streaming example could work if it's for entire games rather than streaming parts of one game. Yes, you'd need to mask the initial load, but games put unskippable splash screens to hide the initial load already.
I have no problem believing that Sony engineers are smarter than me when it comes to technical solutions to these problems, but I also have difficulty believing that they would be told that a massive SSD for mass console production would be okay compared to a drive a fraction of the size along with a more affordable one for mass storage. Even if they can get much better deals than consumers can, the price difference when you're making millions of them is going to be enormous.
The hardware upgrades aren't really upgrades for me if there's nothing I want to play on it.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Last console cycle was weird because neither the Xbox One nor the PS4 grabbed me at all to begin with, which was part of how I ended up getting back into PC games as a primary. The consoles both eventually came good in subsequent years but I only got a PS4 (a second hand Pro) last year. I'm not going to be in a hurry.
Although HZD2 will be awfully tempting. Not gonna deny that.
Still curious to see news and how the machine turns out, though.
Steam | XBL
That's mostly on Japan than anything else. We can't really blame that on anything other than Japan's populace utterly latching onto the mobile market, and the Japanese gaming market responding. It's also just Japan. CDPR, Ubisoft, and plenty of other Western publishers have RPGs on home consoles. We're also running into publishers like BandaiNamco putting more JRPGs on PS4 and on PC lately, and Square's taken an approach to splitting their market between mobile and consoles.
I can't blame Japanese publishers. Nowadays when you see a JRPG on a console, they're trying just as hard to sell the game to the West. Because a JRPG on a modern console just won't sell that well on their shores anymore.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
PSN:Furlion
I finally picked up Witcher 3, and yes this. I've no interest in getting a Pro for higher framrates or slightly more glistening entrails, but if it promised to cut the load times I'd buy one today.
Steam | XBL
Shit works, my dudes.
On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.
It’s a great tech that arrived too early.
I seem to recall something about the Pro having a faster interface. SATA 3 vs the standard PS4's SATA 2 or somesuch, I forget.
Steam | XBL
It does, yes. The SATA 2 interface on the OG model won't give any real speed boost with an SSD. That said, while the Pro will get some benefit, it's questionable whether it's worth the cost because the system still doesn't support the multithreading needed for true SSD performance. Your best bang for the buck is really a hybrid SSHD drive.
I have an SSHD in my laptop, a 2TB FireCuda as the D drive; can confirm the bang for the buck ratio is very good.
Steam | XBL
Death Stranding - Nov. 8th (to be confirmed today)
Last of Us 2 - Feb 2020 (per Jason Schrier on twitter)
Ghosts of Tushima - the final "big" PS4 game
PS5 Fall 2020
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah