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[Unions] Time to get Fired...up?

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Also in international news

    NZ Primary, Secondary, and Primary Principals to go on strike on May 29th.

    it is the first mass strike of this sort and national in scale. Primary and Secondary teachers are represented by different unions, and both unions have had 4 failed negotiations up to this point. The members all voted in secrecy over last week to strike and a joint strike was agreed upon.

    Teachers are asking for smaller class sizes, more teachers (we have a mega shortage), more money, and more specialist teachers for kids with extra needs.

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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    TL DR wrote: »
    Playing LoL is crossing a picket line

    How

    Presuming you don't buy RP or whatever the dumb name for the premium currency is you are literally costing them money when you play the game

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    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Playing LoL is crossing a picket line

    How

    Presuming you don't buy RP or whatever the dumb name for the premium currency is you are literally costing them money when you play the game
    You are providing content for those who are paying them money.
    Also padding the number of players that has value to investors.

    Remember: If you are not paying, then you're the product.

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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Meeqe wrote: »
    If you want to look up the effects organized labor can have within a national framework, I would suggest reading up on the 1988 Polish dockworkers' strike in Gdansk. It arguably was a major factor on world politics and could be argued that it was a major factor in the collapse of the communist bloc. It was a major world event that barely got covered in the Western histories. There were absolutely external factors that led to the collapse, but organized actual labor against the state was a huge factor.

    Places to start within wiki:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Polish_strikes

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Round_Table_Agreement

    Yeah Solidarity did a shitload more to destroy the USSR than Reagan ever did

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Playing LoL is crossing a picket line

    How

    Presuming you don't buy RP or whatever the dumb name for the premium currency is you are literally costing them money when you play the game
    You are providing content for those who are paying them money.
    Also padding the number of players that has value to investors.

    Remember: If you are not paying, then you're the product.

    Also supporting them via network effects.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Also in international news

    NZ Primary, Secondary, and Primary Principals to go on strike on May 29th.

    it is the first mass strike of this sort and national in scale. Primary and Secondary teachers are represented by different unions, and both unions have had 4 failed negotiations up to this point. The members all voted in secrecy over last week to strike and a joint strike was agreed upon.

    Teachers are asking for smaller class sizes, more teachers (we have a mega shortage), more money, and more specialist teachers for kids with extra needs.

    Here's a good short comic on the matter. It's basically the same thing we see in the US - the job has gotten more complex, yet there's been a refusal to pay teachers accordingly - and unsurprisingly, that's resulted in fewer teachers in the pipeline.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Looks like the provost's office paid attention. There was already a task force looking to make recommendations, and they sent out an email today saying that although formal recommendations aren't due until December 2019, they're making preliminary recommendations as well as a $10 million investment in TA and AI stipends and tuition costs that will go into effect this upcoming academic year.

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    MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Also in international news

    NZ Primary, Secondary, and Primary Principals to go on strike on May 29th.

    it is the first mass strike of this sort and national in scale. Primary and Secondary teachers are represented by different unions, and both unions have had 4 failed negotiations up to this point. The members all voted in secrecy over last week to strike and a joint strike was agreed upon.

    Teachers are asking for smaller class sizes, more teachers (we have a mega shortage), more money, and more specialist teachers for kids with extra needs.

    There's an article in the Herald today about immigrant teachers being refused residency because they earn below the minimum to qualify.

    Definitely underscores a point.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Got our union's tentative agreement for the next contract today. 11% raise, with another 5% the next year. Yes please.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    QuarterMasterQuarterMaster Registered User regular
    Went to my first union rally for our ongoing contract negotiations today. No big news to report, but it sure feels good to be represented with a group of your coworkers. <3 unions

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Apparently McDonald's workers went on strike and we all missed it/it wasn't widely reported. It's part of the Fight for $15 movement but with an added element of fighting sexual harassment. It was timed to be on the day of the annual shareholder meeting, and I guess it's not ongoing.

    Just mentioning it here because it was a thing that happened.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    You know, Delta, if you are so worried about your crew unionizing, perhaps you shouldn't be giving them reason to:
    A recent Delta flight leaving Atlanta ran into a maintenance problem, causing a lengthy delay before takeoff. As the airline tried to resolve the issue, someone feared the holdup might cause an even bigger headache: flight attendants walking off the plane because they had worked so long.

    So, according to internal communications reviewed by HuffPost, an employee in Delta’s operations control center sent a directive to the Delta gate agent handling the flight.

    “Do not open door,” the message read. “flt attendants out of time and none available.” The employee advised the gate agent to “let [maintenance] do their work without opening door thanks.”

    Whoever sent the message seems to have been worried that the flight attendants would soon hit their maximum duty hours ― the most they can be required to work continuously without a break. And that, tired and annoyed, they would walk off the plane, forcing the airline to scramble to find another crew, or cancel the flight.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    Amazing. And probably a violation of FAA regulations.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Amazing. And probably a violation of FAA regulations.

    "probably" he says.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Didn't know that was set on an airline basis, for all the "not sky waitresses, important safety functions" stuff would think they'd be covered under FAA rules too. I got bit a few years back because the pilots timed out. The annoying part was the flight was at like 530, and didn't in till like 930, and they told us the timed out at like 10. Seems like something that someone could have calculated at 5, when there were still 10 other flights to ORD that night.

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    They should strike

    They should hijack the plane

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    They should strike

    They should hijack the plane

    They should do a Steven Slater, open the door, grab a beer, and slide on out.

    Damn. That was 9 years ago.

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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    You know, Delta, if you are so worried about your crew unionizing, perhaps you shouldn't be giving them reason to:
    A recent Delta flight leaving Atlanta ran into a maintenance problem, causing a lengthy delay before takeoff. As the airline tried to resolve the issue, someone feared the holdup might cause an even bigger headache: flight attendants walking off the plane because they had worked so long.

    So, according to internal communications reviewed by HuffPost, an employee in Delta’s operations control center sent a directive to the Delta gate agent handling the flight.

    “Do not open door,” the message read. “flt attendants out of time and none available.” The employee advised the gate agent to “let [maintenance] do their work without opening door thanks.”

    Whoever sent the message seems to have been worried that the flight attendants would soon hit their maximum duty hours ― the most they can be required to work continuously without a break. And that, tired and annoyed, they would walk off the plane, forcing the airline to scramble to find another crew, or cancel the flight.

    "Hello and welcome to Triangle Shirtwaist Airlines..."

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    I ZimbraI Zimbra Worst song, played on ugliest guitar Registered User regular


    Vox writer.

    Writers across Vox sites are staging a work stoppage until management negotiates a fair contract.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    WV has a solution to teacher strikes - make them (more) illegal:
    Public employee strikes are technically already unlawful under West Virginia state law, but previous court decisions haven't detailed "possible consequences for teachers" who go on strike, the Charleston Gazette-Mail reported.

    The GOP amendment, according to the Gazette-Mail, would "specify that public worker strikes are unlawful, that school workers can be fired if they strike, that school employees' pay can be withheld on strike days, and that county superintendents can't close schools in anticipation of a strike or to help a strike."

    Republican state Sen. Charles Trump, the sponsor of the amendment, described the provision as "a codification of what is the current law of West Virginia."

    Winnie Wong, senior political adviser to Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), called the measure "absolutely disgusting" in a tweet on Monday.

    In addition to walkouts over pay and benefits last year that shut down every school in the state, West Virginia teachers also went on strike earlier this year to protest Republican privatization efforts.

    "This is how the GOP retaliates against the people who educate our children," Wong wrote of the anti-strike provision.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    So if all the teachers go on strike anyway, they all get fired and the schools are closed anyway? And then the kids can't go to school and oooooooh I see..

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    So if all the teachers go on strike anyway, they all get fired and the schools are closed anyway? And then the kids can't go to school and oooooooh I see..

    It's fucking pathetic that government has made a public school teacher's best career path appears to be.... finding a different job.

    For Republicans, it's at the least, "ehh, fuck it", and at worse, working as intended. But Democrats don't cover themselves in glory with this shit. Instead of arguing that maybe they cut back on letting police by surplus military equipment, or not raising taxes to directly improve schools, they cower under the Republican attacks, instead of screaming back about how a lack of schooling fucks society for generations.

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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Well yeah, Republicans a) get to make money by privatizing everything, b) get to further reduce workers rights and the power of unions, c) get to cut taxes, d) get to fuck over poor people and minorities disproportionately, and e) get a new base of under- and uneducated voters. Fucking with public schools is everything a conservative could ever want. I'm honestly surprised they haven't done more to fuck over public schools than they already have.

    Stabbity Style on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular


    That's I believe the third campaign to do so (Sanders, Castro).

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Nice to see Dems get back into making serious moral arguments for unions again.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Nice to see Dems get back into making serious moral arguments for unions again.

    They've been at this for awhile now.

    Just random story from the Obama years:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/unions-barack-obama-labor-board-victories-213204
    President Barack Obama may end up doing more for the struggling labor movement than any president in three decades.

    Using a thin partisan majority on the National Labor Relations Board, Obama’s Democratic appointees have issued a string of rulings that favor unions — including six pro-labor decisions in just the past few days
    And you can find more. The Democrats during the Obama years spent plenty of time on this issue, it just doesn't make big headlines.

    The problem has always been that, Trump himself, like Reagan and others before him, has managed to pull support from blue-collar union members despite GOP policy on organized labour because of cultural issues.

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Yeah I wasnt talking about policies.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Oh, you just want rhetoric? There's that too:
    https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2016/09/04/president-obama-letter-americas-hardworking-men-and-women

    This stuff is out there. Democrats have been making the argument for unions pretty openly since at least the Obama years.

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    shryke wrote: »
    Oh, you just want rhetoric?

    No. 2018-19 has seen Democratic candidates integrated and embrace unions in ways and to a degree that is new and very good. Multiple campaigns are unionizing, campaigns are coordinating volunteers with strikers, candidates are explicitly leaning on specific employers etc. It can bind unions to Democrats in a way they haven't been for a long time and will do more good than that time Obama posted something on his blog wrote an open letter.

    You seem to be under the impression I said this marks the first time Democrats have talked positively about unions, which is weird.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Styrofoam Sammich on
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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing

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    HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing

    Engineers are the... well, engineers of their own misery. It's what they get for thinking they're too smart or valuable to need the protections and benefits of a union contract, when in reality they're just as expendable as the rest of us.

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    dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    I will never understand how people who like their job and don't want it to change were convinced that a union contract that guaranteed it never changes is bad.

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing

    Engineers are the... well, engineers of their own misery. It's what they get for thinking they're too smart or valuable to need the protections and benefits of a union contract, when in reality they're just as expendable as the rest of us.

    Don’t gotta tell me lol, I live in this world every day

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    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    I will never understand how people who like their job and don't want it to change were convinced that a union contract that guaranteed it never changes is bad.
    Because they are convinced that union would force them to help people less worthy than them, and take away part of their salary as union dues.
    But on their own, they can negotiate just as well, no, even better, salary and benefits while all those leeches are left in the cold.
    Dunning-Kruger is hell of a drug.

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    In my experience engineers has drunk deep of a kind of weird half ass objectivism.

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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    The issue is to a great extent that many people in the U.S. don't know what unions actually do, and only regularly hear about the mistakes and over reach events which unions are involved in.

    So many engineers just think that unions will stop them getting raises and promotions. Decrease their salaries, and force them to pay into pension schemes which will then get robbed by corrupt union officials or be underfunded and go bankrupt.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Also a bunch of engineering work is currently set on a path thus that trying to slow it down by making the working conditions better would result in engineering firms getting 100% shut out. Like if my wife's firm unionized it wouldn't change the deadlines on their current contracts (which is what builds the fucked up engineering workloads), and if they tried to insist on union protections in future contracts they'd probably lose every contract bid because the way private contract bids are awarded is pretty corrupt. Like the whole objectivist rich assholes thing is totally correct. However there's also a whole bunch of logistical issues in there as well that makes unionizing engineering difficult. We'd have to do some pretty deep "change how literally everything works" type of shit to get engineers in unions.

    Sleep on
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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing

    I don't understand the connection, why are we talking about engineers in regards to a union contract for Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America?

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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing

    I don't understand the connection, why are we talking about engineers in regards to a union contract for Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America?

    Lots of us work in some flavor of engineering and wish we could get such union support. Unfortunately there's a bunch of shit that currently makes it impossible to do so.

This discussion has been closed.