I tried Architects of the West Kingdom last night and really enjoyed it
I kind of hate point salad euros, but instead of being an engine-builder, it forces you to be adaptive and construct short-term engines and watch for chances to disrupt other players
The ability to just capture opponents' workers is great, and deeply changes the whole game (plus the fact that so many engines can be stymied in other ways). Capturing or jailing workers can jam up any engine by removing its inputs, so you need to be flexible.
Instead of carefully constructing your salad leaf by leaf, with locally sourced ingredients and a pair of tweezers, you're sprinting through the fields with a spade and a bucket, trying to get a full meal before the mob of angry villagers catches you
Re: Root: I suppose the expensive solution to the Vagabond is to get the expansion and play with the Riverfolk as the second 'disruption' faction. I've heard they're pretty good to throw into a game, though I can't call on any personal experience for that.
For anyone considering the Iron Clays kickstarter...I have questions / suggestions?
The Iron Clay chips are 9.5g. Splendor poker chips, when they first came out, were ~13.5-14g. The reduced quality splendor chips are ~6-7g, from most reports.
"Real" clay poker chips are ~9-10g, depending on which casino you're in. Personally, I have a couple sets (1 set of 500, 2 sets of 1,000) from when I used to run Hold 'Em tournaments in college. I have an 11.5g set of high quality clay chips, a 13.5g set of slugged clay chips, and a cheapie 9.5g set of unknown origins.
I enjoy the 13.5g set of slugged clay the best. You can grab a set of 200 for ~40 from several places, like here. They're blank, so you'd need to just agree on what color represents what denomination. But there are also tons of various styles of poker chips you can grab. You can also spend significantly less money by getting lighter poker chips, if you're so inclined.
You can get cheap acrylic trays like this one to hand out during play for individual players.
You can also get all kinds of fancy/nice wooden poker chip carriers, though none that are a cute little box like the Iron Clay bank (at least that I could find with a cursory google).
So I dunno. The pricing seems way out of whack for what amounts to "correctly labeled" clay poker chips? I got the deluxe edition of Brass Birmingham (it was the only one available) because I am weak and I like to use purpose-assigned things, so having the little containers in the B:B box works great for my ridiculous brain. But I think the iron clays are about as nice as my cheapie set of 500 unknown origin poker chips, and doesn't hold a candle to my nicer sets of fancy shmancy chips. So unless you really really want the wooden bank to store the chips in, I think folk would be better served by just grabbing regular ol' poker chips?
This post reminded me of this one discussing poker chip sets to use for 18xx train games, but is full of good recommendations overall.
I used to own a set of 1000 "Dice" chips, which were serviceable. A few years back, I sold 'em away and upgraded to a set of Milanos. They're very nice, though they have a bit of a chalky feel and scent when they're new. But as far as price goes, they're about on the same level as those Iron Clays. Given what JustTee said about quality, it might be best to go with an existing set of poker chips for general gaming, unless you're really sold on the Iron Clay design.
To be fair, the Iron Clay design is really nice! I know that when I was shopping around for my current chip set, I was put off by so many of the (generally less expensive) designs being gaudy-looking, so I don't blame anyone for being attracted to the Iron Clay design. But there are chips out there, like the Milanos, that are a just as subdued, classy design. (At least, that's my opinion.)
Each day that I don't get a shipping notification for my 7th Continent wave 2 content, I get more and more nervous. Then again, I'm not looking forward to re-sleeving all my cards once the replacement set comes.
I'm not nervous about it... I just accept the idea that im backer number 43,733 out of 43,733 on the shipping list for some reason. then ill be happily surprised if im proven wrong.
As far as the replacement cards. My decks are not so far gone that i have to think about that for a long time.
Yessss.. being pessimistic worked! got shipping info, should arrive tomorrow!
Yeah, reading my response it might seem a bit negative overall? The TL;DR version:
Iron Clays Pros
-Design that meshes better with board games than many (not all) basic poker chips
-Really nice storage solution that would look great on a shelf
-Decent solution for use during play
Iron Clay Cons
-Seem expensive for the weight/style (if these are the same as the Iron Clays in B;B deluxe edition, *definitely* expensive)
-Overall project is expensive for what you get
I'd suggest that anyone who wants to back Iron Clays basically decide whether or not the bank (wood storage box) is worth buying or not. That's the main "unique" thing offered by the kickstarter, and really, the only thing I couldn't find a good substitute for in a few minutes of googling. Otherwise, if you just want some solid poker chips, there are tons and tons out there, and many are nice feeling and looking, for significantly less money than the Iron Clays. Also, there are many wooden storage solutions for poker chips in general, but none that look exactly like the iron clay bank.
JustTee on
Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
With the Vagabond, remember that killing a warrior puts them at Hostile, impeding their movement for the rest of the game. So if you bop them in the nose early on, you can make life more difficult for them. Also, recklessly crafting is a bad idea. Be aware of how items help the little fuck before you churn them out.
Shit. I had really high hopes for U-BOOT, which was gearing up to be an app-driven cooperation version of Captain Sonar meets Space Alert.
But I'm reading some really bad first impressions that say it doesn't work at all.
We tried playing it, and the whole thing just falls apart with real time. It’s very slow and getting anything done requires a lot of rule red tape. I guess it may be fun if you actually served on a submarine or are naval enthusiast.
Also the whole game tiptoes around the fact that you are literal Nazis which is off-putting.
+1
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited June 2019
That is specifically why I will not play it. Why they went with the theme of a German submarine in WW2 attacking Allied shipping is mind-boggling. There are two people in my local gaming circle who lost family members in the American Merchant Marine during the war.
Why in the world would you not go with some generic invented war or a war against Cthulhu or invading space aliens or, at worst, an American or British submarine ?
That is specifically why I will not play it. Why they went with the theme of a German submarine in WW2 attacking Allied shipping is mind-boggling. Why in the world would you not go with some generic invented war or a war against Cthulhu or invading space aliens or, at worst, an American or British submarine ?
Because it’s a real thing that occurred in history?
Like, wargames typically use real events as their basis. Now, the game tiptoeing around you playing as a Nazi is bs. If you set a game historically you need to treat that history properly and thoroughly.
Inquisitor on
+1
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
That is specifically why I will not play it. Why they went with the theme of a German submarine in WW2 attacking Allied shipping is mind-boggling. Why in the world would you not go with some generic invented war or a war against Cthulhu or invading space aliens or, at worst, an American or British submarine ?
Because it’s a real thing that occurred in history?
Like, wargames typically use real events as their basis. Now, the game tiptoeing around you playing as a Nazi is bs. If you set a game historically you need to treat that history properly and thoroughly.
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited June 2019
Obviously, but that's not the point. Why is this game trying to get me to play the Bad Guys fighting against the Good Guys while they work to liberate Europe from the murderous dictatorship that the Bad Guys serve ? The Kriegsmarine did a very good job of covering this up after the war, but the German submarine service was notorious for the being the home of die-hard committed Nazis.
That is specifically why I will not play it. Why they went with the theme of a German submarine in WW2 attacking Allied shipping is mind-boggling. Why in the world would you not go with some generic invented war or a war against Cthulhu or invading space aliens or, at worst, an American or British submarine ?
Because it’s a real thing that occurred in history?
Like, wargames typically use real events as their basis. Now, the game tiptoeing around you playing as a Nazi is bs. If you set a game historically you need to treat that history properly and thoroughly.
But they made a boardgame, not a wargame.
Mincing words imo, they made a historically themed game based off of real events. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. It comes down to their treatment of the history in question (and it seems like they did not do the best job.)
Obviously, but that's not the point. Why is this game trying to get me to play the Bad Guys fighting against the Good Guys while they work to liberate Europe from the murderous dictatorship that the Bad Guys serve ?
Because like, the submarine campaign waged by Nazi germany versus allied shipping is, a very well known historical event and kind of a unique specimen in the grand sweep of warfare. It’s also very well documented. It has been the setting for many, many games.
Inquisitor on
+3
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
That is specifically why I will not play it. Why they went with the theme of a German submarine in WW2 attacking Allied shipping is mind-boggling. Why in the world would you not go with some generic invented war or a war against Cthulhu or invading space aliens or, at worst, an American or British submarine ?
Because it’s a real thing that occurred in history?
Like, wargames typically use real events as their basis. Now, the game tiptoeing around you playing as a Nazi is bs. If you set a game historically you need to treat that history properly and thoroughly.
But they made a boardgame, not a wargame.
Mincing words imo, they made a historically themed game based off of real events. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. It comes down to their treatment of the history in question (and it seems like they did not do the best job.)
I disagree that it's semantics. A war game might have you playing a conflict where you represent the bad guys, but it generally serves some alternative history or as a potential reflection of how shit some of the things you have to do are (which is often serviced from all sides, not just "the bad guys").
This game isn't giving you that - you're just trying to do something shitty and be rewarded for it. It's not exactly a poor parallel to CAH and why we tend to not like that.
Additionally, like anything that isn't treated with some amount of tact, it's certainly another vector of normalizing something we really don't want normalized or celebrated in the current world political climate.
Each day that I don't get a shipping notification for my 7th Continent wave 2 content, I get more and more nervous. Then again, I'm not looking forward to re-sleeving all my cards once the replacement set comes.
I'm not nervous about it... I just accept the idea that im backer number 43,733 out of 43,733 on the shipping list for some reason. then ill be happily surprised if im proven wrong.
As far as the replacement cards. My decks are not so far gone that i have to think about that for a long time.
Yessss.. being pessimistic worked! got shipping info, should arrive tomorrow!
You live 30min from me so hopefully I'm soon, too!
Each day that I don't get a shipping notification for my 7th Continent wave 2 content, I get more and more nervous. Then again, I'm not looking forward to re-sleeving all my cards once the replacement set comes.
I'm not nervous about it... I just accept the idea that im backer number 43,733 out of 43,733 on the shipping list for some reason. then ill be happily surprised if im proven wrong.
As far as the replacement cards. My decks are not so far gone that i have to think about that for a long time.
Yessss.. being pessimistic worked! got shipping info, should arrive tomorrow!
You live 30min from me so hopefully I'm soon, too!
I just got mine. What should I sleeve, do I need to?
Obviously, but that's not the point. Why is this game trying to get me to play the Bad Guys fighting against the Good Guys while they work to liberate Europe from the murderous dictatorship that the Bad Guys serve ?
Because like, the submarine campaign waged by Nazi germany versus allied shipping is, a very well known historical event and kind of a unique specimen in the grand sweep of warfare. It’s also very well documented. It has been the setting for many, many games.
Yeah it's just bizarre to expect war games to never ever use historical settings. What exactly are the guidelines where you would grant them permission? Use only wars where it was two "good guy" factions? An app-driven cutscene every 5 minutes with the bad guy faction reminding you how evil they are and kids don't try this at home?
The pure gameplay appeal of tense cat & mouse sub warfare is obvious. You're very limited for that as far as settings go. To me, something like Red November is way more insensitive than any non-fiction sub setting.
I spent about a full month with my nose buried in Root's rulebook, so I feel like I've been somewhat adequately prepared
Yeah if you are willing to put in that kind of time you will be fine.
GMT rulebooks are just written in an incredibly specific way. Lots of “see rule 3.7.5” and lots of like this rule says enemy cube, this rule says enemy disc, and this rule says enemy piece and those all have radically different implications so everything must be read very carefully.
Generally my sensation after reading a GMT rulebook is that I have a loose assemblage of very precise, inter related rules and no idea how to make a cohesive game or strategy out of them until I play several rounds.
For example one of the most important thing in most of the coin games is how your faction makes income during the propaganda phase, but the rules really draw no attention to this importance and since the first propaganda phase may not hit until like 12 turns in many players might not even be factoring it into their plans.
what percentage of each of these games is the core COIN system, and what is unique to each one?
it'd be pretty neat if learning one of these games meant you were already like 50% of the way there to knowing how to play the other ones
It’s hard to put an exact percentage on it. It’s definitely not as much as some systems where it really is the exact same rules from game to game with a couple extra gubbins and different scenarios.
50% might be a good ball park. Once you have played one COIN game I feel like you could walk into any other and have a good idea of what the general idea is, but the individual wrinkles of each one will get you.
Maybe more of a shared core philosophy/approach than shared rules, so to speak.
For COIN in my experience they are all heavy enough that you need buy in into a complicated long game anyway. So just pick the one that has the theme most likely to resonate with your group, for me it Fire in the Lake.
0
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Had a decent little game night last night at the local cafe, where we played Tiny Towns and Wingspan.
Tiny Towns was pretty cute. We played with the resource deck instead of picking materials because I figured it would speed up the game, and we're absolutely certain it did. At that cost, it probably removed a bit of tension and "Oh fuck! ..." factor, but it's just fun to see your little town coming together - the meeples really do sell the aesthetic of it all. The abilities on the cards were fun to mesh together (we didn't do recommended setup, just drew randomly), and the final scores really weren't close at all. Everyone liked it overall, though nobody at the table would want to own it despite being totally willing to play again. You should give it a shot~
Wingspan was ... fine. Much like Tiny Towns, we all liked playing it, but it feels like something is missing and man is it some multiplayer solitaire where occasionally you give each other things. Going through the bird deck was fun, and seeing people have some variety in strategy was great, and the components are absolutely delightful, and honestly we had a few good laughs at some of the bonus cards (some of the more creative ones I've seen in a while). It's just something about the arc of the game didn't really click, and only so many cards feed into making your actions cooler VS jut being a good bird worth a bunch of points. So it winds up better and worse than Terraforming Mars's cards where the interplay between them is weaker, making for less interesting combinations, but the consistency of the deck is much, much smoother so dead cards are few and far between. Another case where it would be really nice to have an A deck and a B deck, breaking the early/late games apart. *shrug*
Same as Tiny Towns, we'd all play it again, but the game seems massively overhyped at this point. Still, the guy in our group that has it preordered is still going to get it when his order comes in, so it's good enough for him~
Each day that I don't get a shipping notification for my 7th Continent wave 2 content, I get more and more nervous. Then again, I'm not looking forward to re-sleeving all my cards once the replacement set comes.
I'm not nervous about it... I just accept the idea that im backer number 43,733 out of 43,733 on the shipping list for some reason. then ill be happily surprised if im proven wrong.
As far as the replacement cards. My decks are not so far gone that i have to think about that for a long time.
Yessss.. being pessimistic worked! got shipping info, should arrive tomorrow!
You live 30min from me so hopefully I'm soon, too!
I just got mine. What should I sleeve, do I need to?
If you want to do a good but not complete sleeve,and you are careful with your gamepieces, do all the adventure cards, character cards, the skill cards, the food cards and basically everything that will leave the box and stay in someones 'hand'. the map pieces, don't sleeve.
If you want to go all out, you can, but this makes the map a little glossy in a well lit room and the map cards are intended to be studied closely.
Actually, theres a good sleeving guide on BGG. one sec..
Wingspan was ... fine. Much like Tiny Towns, we all liked playing it, but it feels like something is missing and man is it some multiplayer solitaire where occasionally you give each other things. Going through the bird deck was fun, and seeing people have some variety in strategy was great, and the components are absolutely delightful, and honestly we had a few good laughs at some of the bonus cards (some of the more creative ones I've seen in a while).
The bonus cards are excellently game-designed. They say right on them what percentage of the deck will qualify, and have clarifications right on the card about what things count for the bonus.
Though there's an obvious oversight that neither "woodcock" nor "titmouse" counts for "birds that have a body part in the name." I mean, come on. :P
+9
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Oh yeah, we all remarked on how good that was on the bonus cards. Absolutely phenomenal to have the %s listed on each one.
It was actually such a good idea I was surprised they didn't have a similar statistic on the predatory birds that cared about wingspan (to show what % of birds met the criteria).
Posts
*waggles eyebrows*
(Advanced Squad Leader)
It's a game where the rules come in binders and even working out which binders give you sufficient rules to play is a challenge
I kind of hate point salad euros, but instead of being an engine-builder, it forces you to be adaptive and construct short-term engines and watch for chances to disrupt other players
The ability to just capture opponents' workers is great, and deeply changes the whole game (plus the fact that so many engines can be stymied in other ways). Capturing or jailing workers can jam up any engine by removing its inputs, so you need to be flexible.
Instead of carefully constructing your salad leaf by leaf, with locally sourced ingredients and a pair of tweezers, you're sprinting through the fields with a spade and a bucket, trying to get a full meal before the mob of angry villagers catches you
But I'm reading some really bad first impressions that say it doesn't work at all.
Re: Iron Clays: This post reminded me of this one discussing poker chip sets to use for 18xx train games, but is full of good recommendations overall.
I used to own a set of 1000 "Dice" chips, which were serviceable. A few years back, I sold 'em away and upgraded to a set of Milanos. They're very nice, though they have a bit of a chalky feel and scent when they're new. But as far as price goes, they're about on the same level as those Iron Clays. Given what JustTee said about quality, it might be best to go with an existing set of poker chips for general gaming, unless you're really sold on the Iron Clay design.
To be fair, the Iron Clay design is really nice! I know that when I was shopping around for my current chip set, I was put off by so many of the (generally less expensive) designs being gaudy-looking, so I don't blame anyone for being attracted to the Iron Clay design. But there are chips out there, like the Milanos, that are a just as subdued, classy design. (At least, that's my opinion.)
Yessss.. being pessimistic worked! got shipping info, should arrive tomorrow!
Iron Clays Pros
-Design that meshes better with board games than many (not all) basic poker chips
-Really nice storage solution that would look great on a shelf
-Decent solution for use during play
Iron Clay Cons
-Seem expensive for the weight/style (if these are the same as the Iron Clays in B;B deluxe edition, *definitely* expensive)
-Overall project is expensive for what you get
I'd suggest that anyone who wants to back Iron Clays basically decide whether or not the bank (wood storage box) is worth buying or not. That's the main "unique" thing offered by the kickstarter, and really, the only thing I couldn't find a good substitute for in a few minutes of googling. Otherwise, if you just want some solid poker chips, there are tons and tons out there, and many are nice feeling and looking, for significantly less money than the Iron Clays. Also, there are many wooden storage solutions for poker chips in general, but none that look exactly like the iron clay bank.
We tried playing it, and the whole thing just falls apart with real time. It’s very slow and getting anything done requires a lot of rule red tape. I guess it may be fun if you actually served on a submarine or are naval enthusiast.
Also the whole game tiptoes around the fact that you are literal Nazis which is off-putting.
Why in the world would you not go with some generic invented war or a war against Cthulhu or invading space aliens or, at worst, an American or British submarine ?
Because it’s a real thing that occurred in history?
Like, wargames typically use real events as their basis. Now, the game tiptoeing around you playing as a Nazi is bs. If you set a game historically you need to treat that history properly and thoroughly.
But they made a boardgame, not a wargame.
Mincing words imo, they made a historically themed game based off of real events. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. It comes down to their treatment of the history in question (and it seems like they did not do the best job.)
Because like, the submarine campaign waged by Nazi germany versus allied shipping is, a very well known historical event and kind of a unique specimen in the grand sweep of warfare. It’s also very well documented. It has been the setting for many, many games.
This game isn't giving you that - you're just trying to do something shitty and be rewarded for it. It's not exactly a poor parallel to CAH and why we tend to not like that.
Additionally, like anything that isn't treated with some amount of tact, it's certainly another vector of normalizing something we really don't want normalized or celebrated in the current world political climate.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
You live 30min from me so hopefully I'm soon, too!
Selling Board Games for Medical Bills
Am I right that if no one sees the vagabond being an ass and destroying tokens, then you don't lose your hostile status?
I'm a little unsure of the phrasing on this question, but yes the Vagabond only goes Hostile to a faction if it kills a warrior of that faction.
I just got mine. What should I sleeve, do I need to?
Yeah it's just bizarre to expect war games to never ever use historical settings. What exactly are the guidelines where you would grant them permission? Use only wars where it was two "good guy" factions? An app-driven cutscene every 5 minutes with the bad guy faction reminding you how evil they are and kids don't try this at home?
The pure gameplay appeal of tense cat & mouse sub warfare is obvious. You're very limited for that as far as settings go. To me, something like Red November is way more insensitive than any non-fiction sub setting.
I've heard basically nothing but good things about Andean Abyss.
Of the coin series I have played that and Liberty or Death and Cuba Libre is much more playable and quick, but it is still one GMT ass GMT game.
It will be a bear to learn but with a good teacher I rate it as pretty approachable.
Yeah if you are willing to put in that kind of time you will be fine.
GMT rulebooks are just written in an incredibly specific way. Lots of “see rule 3.7.5” and lots of like this rule says enemy cube, this rule says enemy disc, and this rule says enemy piece and those all have radically different implications so everything must be read very carefully.
Generally my sensation after reading a GMT rulebook is that I have a loose assemblage of very precise, inter related rules and no idea how to make a cohesive game or strategy out of them until I play several rounds.
For example one of the most important thing in most of the coin games is how your faction makes income during the propaganda phase, but the rules really draw no attention to this importance and since the first propaganda phase may not hit until like 12 turns in many players might not even be factoring it into their plans.
Expect multiple learning games for sure.
it'd be pretty neat if learning one of these games meant you were already like 50% of the way there to knowing how to play the other ones
It’s hard to put an exact percentage on it. It’s definitely not as much as some systems where it really is the exact same rules from game to game with a couple extra gubbins and different scenarios.
50% might be a good ball park. Once you have played one COIN game I feel like you could walk into any other and have a good idea of what the general idea is, but the individual wrinkles of each one will get you.
Maybe more of a shared core philosophy/approach than shared rules, so to speak.
Tiny Towns was pretty cute. We played with the resource deck instead of picking materials because I figured it would speed up the game, and we're absolutely certain it did. At that cost, it probably removed a bit of tension and "Oh fuck! ..." factor, but it's just fun to see your little town coming together - the meeples really do sell the aesthetic of it all. The abilities on the cards were fun to mesh together (we didn't do recommended setup, just drew randomly), and the final scores really weren't close at all. Everyone liked it overall, though nobody at the table would want to own it despite being totally willing to play again. You should give it a shot~
Wingspan was ... fine. Much like Tiny Towns, we all liked playing it, but it feels like something is missing and man is it some multiplayer solitaire where occasionally you give each other things. Going through the bird deck was fun, and seeing people have some variety in strategy was great, and the components are absolutely delightful, and honestly we had a few good laughs at some of the bonus cards (some of the more creative ones I've seen in a while). It's just something about the arc of the game didn't really click, and only so many cards feed into making your actions cooler VS jut being a good bird worth a bunch of points. So it winds up better and worse than Terraforming Mars's cards where the interplay between them is weaker, making for less interesting combinations, but the consistency of the deck is much, much smoother so dead cards are few and far between. Another case where it would be really nice to have an A deck and a B deck, breaking the early/late games apart. *shrug*
Same as Tiny Towns, we'd all play it again, but the game seems massively overhyped at this point. Still, the guy in our group that has it preordered is still going to get it when his order comes in, so it's good enough for him~
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
If you want to do a good but not complete sleeve,and you are careful with your gamepieces, do all the adventure cards, character cards, the skill cards, the food cards and basically everything that will leave the box and stay in someones 'hand'. the map pieces, don't sleeve.
If you want to go all out, you can, but this makes the map a little glossy in a well lit room and the map cards are intended to be studied closely.
Actually, theres a good sleeving guide on BGG. one sec..
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1756688/sleeves-latest-cards-type-and-number-1st-ks
The bonus cards are excellently game-designed. They say right on them what percentage of the deck will qualify, and have clarifications right on the card about what things count for the bonus.
Though there's an obvious oversight that neither "woodcock" nor "titmouse" counts for "birds that have a body part in the name." I mean, come on. :P
It was actually such a good idea I was surprised they didn't have a similar statistic on the predatory birds that cared about wingspan (to show what % of birds met the criteria).
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
I DESPERATELY hope that any expansions just replace the deck rather than add to it. >_>
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Where the fuck is my package. no, dont tell me its delivered. cause it aint here. *sigh*.... I hate this.