If we're going to complain about things being hard to find, I'd accuse the inventory expansion of being far more obscure. It's not even one place, just one person on a path that you may not follow. I never found anyone pointing me towards it either.
And changing the subject to Cadence of Hyrule, is the Hookshot in any reliable location? I've covered a lot of the map and it feels like I should have found it by now.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Failing to explore in a game about exploration is not a failure of the game. I bet some people probably didn’t even find the girl wandering off at night or the story of the two kids.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
"I went to location 162 instead of location 5 and I missed the thing, ugh, game failed." No? You got to do stuff early on that other people don't do early on. That doesn't make the game bad it makes your play session different. Isn't that what we're going for in sandbox games? If you learn something useful late in the game, you know what you do? Apply it as much as you can to your current playthrough, and if you decide to play over from scratch, you can see what it's like using that thing ASAP!
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited June 2019
Look, I love exploration as much as the next guy. I spent 80 hours just roaming the world before doing my first divine beast and probably got another 30 in before doing my second. I love finding shit on my own in the middle nowhere.
A tutorial on a core gameplay mechanics should not be one of those things.
If we're going to complain about things being hard to find, I'd accuse the inventory expansion of being far more obscure. It's not even one place, just one person on a path that you may not follow. I never found anyone pointing me towards it either.
And changing the subject to Cadence of Hyrule, is the Hookshot in any reliable location? I've covered a lot of the map and it feels like I should have found it by now.
I always thought they should've made it so Hetsu had a chance to randomly show up at any stable, at least until you found his home.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
"Pressing this button when the enemy does this thing" is kind of a core mechanic, yes.
Anyway I don't get the pushback against it. The game should show me how to play it and then go "here you go, have fun". Both those things are possible. It already does it.
It was just a dumb weird thing that happened and I shared my experience. What makes it even dumber is that I had watched that very same video ages ago. I guess I just forgot plus she doesn't say where the thing is. And then the same thing happens to me. Weird.
If we're going to complain about things being hard to find, I'd accuse the inventory expansion of being far more obscure. It's not even one place, just one person on a path that you may not follow. I never found anyone pointing me towards it either.
And changing the subject to Cadence of Hyrule, is the Hookshot in any reliable location? I've covered a lot of the map and it feels like I should have found it by now.
I dunno, Hestu's literally on the road between the Great Plateau and Kakariko. I know for a fact that you can miss him since my brother somehow missed the stables that are right there as well, but the geography kind of steers you straight at him: you want to go to the tower right by the Dueling Peaks, probably want to go between the Dueling Peaks, and then once on the other side following the road (possibly on a horse now, given the stable) to the quest marker leads you straight to him.
Once you've found him and done his sidequest, he actually shows up at multiple stables along the river until you progress his story further.
If you follow the roads he's extremely easy to find, it's when you start cutting a bunch of corners that you miss him. He's also on the road from Kakariko to Hateno and Hateno to Kakariko, of course, so following the main quest makes seeing him all the more likely.
Since E3's reveal that BotW2 is in development I've been having the itch to go back and play through it and all the DLC... But I'm in the middle of SO MANY GAMES that I can't seem to justify spending time on a game I've already beat (although the DLC would be new). And with the rest of the year looking like it does and next year not looking any better... I can't seem to fit it in my schedule lol.
When an open world game repeatedly tells you about a certain place (like Kakariko Village), it's probably a good idea to go there relatively quickly. Open world games almost always have an initial, bare bones tutorial at the outset, but they also point players to places where other aspects/systems will be explained. The plateau was mostly about the slate, its abilities, and basic world traversal/combat. From there, the road to Kakariko is essentially a trail of tutorial breadcrumbs that introduce the player to other important things (horses, stables, towers, Koroks, etc.).
The stables tell you about the horses no matter which you go to first. Same with the towers being taught by the king. Korok seeds I ran into that dude randomly as I was walking up a trail to somewhere... and he teleports around.
Those are good tutorials for an open world game. A fixed, singular location is not, unless it is unmissable. Like, the player is forced to do it to proceed like the bomb, magnet, etc.
Anyway i'm gonna play the game more instead of arguing about design stuff. Hopefully the sequel fixes a lot of these insurmountable problems.
Aistan on
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dipuc4life... In my own HeadRegistered Userregular
I've been thinking about how they could do the sequel ... and here are my brief ideas/thoughts/fantasies:
1. The overworld is the same minus the malice with updated NPC stories, people rebuilding hyrule, more travellers, less enemies (everybody is happy that the calamity is now gone)
2. Under most of Hyrule castle and field is a large underground space with interconnecting pathways
3. All of the shrines are now sealed since Calamity Ganon has been sealed but they still act as fast travel points (but you can't go inside them)
4. Across the world are themed dungeons hidden out of sight that have to be discovered by the player (by breaking rocks, doing some tasks in specific areas, solving a puzzle/riddle etc).
5. These dungeons give one upgrade to each of the sheikah slate (BOTW) functions that can help traversal in the new underground areas
6. The main hook/mechanic of the game is that these dungeons all have to be linked to the main cavern in order to properly seal/kill ganon
7. You play as Zelda in discovering the dungeon locations and unsealing the dungeons then you switch to Link to battle through the dungeons (pipe dream)
8. *not spoiler* Once you connect all the dungeons and collect all the mcguffins, Link and Zelda must face Ganondorf once again in the final battle
9. Oh and by the way, all the champion powers still work but not in the same way or with the same power/effects
I ... would enjoy that. Never going to happen but a man can dream ... can't he?
Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
I like that they don't explicitly tell you about stuff like that. It makes you feel like a badass when you figure it out for yourself. Besides lets face it it's not like combat in Zelda is super intricate on the level of a DMC game or something, so anything that adds a little depth and challenge to it is fine by me.
Since E3's reveal that BotW2 is in development I've been having the itch to go back and play through it and all the DLC... But I'm in the middle of SO MANY GAMES that I can't seem to justify spending time on a game I've already beat (although the DLC would be new). And with the rest of the year looking like it does and next year not looking any better... I can't seem to fit it in my schedule lol.
Since E3's reveal that BotW2 is in development I've been having the itch to go back and play through it and all the DLC... But I'm in the middle of SO MANY GAMES that I can't seem to justify spending time on a game I've already beat (although the DLC would be new). And with the rest of the year looking like it does and next year not looking any better... I can't seem to fit it in my schedule lol.
Mail the game to me, and I'll replay it for you.
I like this idea. I get the credit for the completion though, right?
I've been thinking about how they could do the sequel ... and here are my brief ideas/thoughts/fantasies:
1. The overworld is the same minus the malice with updated NPC stories, people rebuilding hyrule, more travellers, less enemies (everybody is happy that the calamity is now gone)
2. Under most of Hyrule castle and field is a large underground space with interconnecting pathways
3. All of the shrines are now sealed since Calamity Ganon has been sealed but they still act as fast travel points (but you can't go inside them)
4. Across the world are themed dungeons hidden out of sight that have to be discovered by the player (by breaking rocks, doing some tasks in specific areas, solving a puzzle/riddle etc).
5. These dungeons give one upgrade to each of the sheikah slate (BOTW) functions that can help traversal in the new underground areas
6. The main hook/mechanic of the game is that these dungeons all have to be linked to the main cavern in order to properly seal/kill ganon
7. You play as Zelda in discovering the dungeon locations and unsealing the dungeons then you switch to Link to battle through the dungeons (pipe dream)
8. *not spoiler* Once you connect all the dungeons and collect all the mcguffins, Link and Zelda must face Ganondorf once again in the final battle
9. Oh and by the way, all the champion powers still work but not in the same way or with the same power/effects
I ... would enjoy that. Never going to happen but a man can dream ... can't he?
Interesting. What I want:
Going by the trailer, it looks like Link has a magic arm. This fits with art made during the development process of the first game that the developers shared, where Link had a mechanical right arm that would act as a hookshot (among other things). I'd like that to be the case with Link here.... his right arm becomes magical (maybe a gift from Farore? the arm/magic is green, and Link is more or less her champion, so it fits). This new arm forces Link to wield weapons left handed (like he usually does), and gives him new abilities, including a hookshot. Basically, you're Bionic Commando Link with even more abilities on top of it.
Zelda, who is another playable character, gets the slate with all of the goodies from the first game unlocked. Given her scientific bent, maybe her combat revolves around things she's invented, or the inventions of the people who I can't remember...? Something that's more interesting than being a clone of Link in the combat department, or otherwise being relegated as an archer.
Real dungeons with real bosses. Given how much BotW borrowed from the original LoZ, maybe use its 9 dungeons as inspiration?
A trip into the Sacred Realm, where things are the same but different. Maybe not the entire map, but enough to see some new landmarks in familiar locations. A pyramid being where Hyrule Castle currently is would rock.
Ganondorf not turning into a pig or any other kind of creature (outside of the zombie/lich he already is).
Underground locations that aren't boring. I really hate underground locations in most games, as they look/feel unimaginative. It's just the same assortment of stuff... mushrooms here, bugs there, glowing stuff every so often. I'd like something different, like huge spaces that are sort of weird, offputting mimics of outdoor spaces (imagine a Malice twisted version of the Genesis Cave from Star Trek II). Anything that doesn't just rip off D&D's Underdark or Skyrim's underground stuff.
More lore, specifically about Ganondorf. From what I can tell, he's usually evil for evil's sake because of the curse Demise made at the end of Skyward Sword. It'd be cool if they actually gave him some characterization beyond being an evil guy.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited June 2019
I mean the real question here is, are you really going 95 hours into a game without pressing buttons just because the game didn't tell you explicitly yet? It doesn't take long to figure out that one of the buttons locks on to an enemy, and all you have to do is ask yourself "what happens if I jump while doing that?"
Self-learning can be applied in this game. But, more importantly, none of that is required to beat the bosses or anything. You don't have to know how to counter-attack, like it's not as though an enemy is immune to damage unless you do that to them. You don't even have to know how to dodge, you could fight at range or just take the hit (and upgrade your armor accordingly).
Edit - Also there are element resists gained via foods and potions and armor upgrades. I mean, the game gives you more than one way to handle things when the tough gets going.
Since E3's reveal that BotW2 is in development I've been having the itch to go back and play through it and all the DLC... But I'm in the middle of SO MANY GAMES that I can't seem to justify spending time on a game I've already beat (although the DLC would be new). And with the rest of the year looking like it does and next year not looking any better... I can't seem to fit it in my schedule lol.
Mail the game to me, and I'll replay it for you.
I like this idea. I get the credit for the completion though, right?
Since E3's reveal that BotW2 is in development I've been having the itch to go back and play through it and all the DLC... But I'm in the middle of SO MANY GAMES that I can't seem to justify spending time on a game I've already beat (although the DLC would be new). And with the rest of the year looking like it does and next year not looking any better... I can't seem to fit it in my schedule lol.
Mail the game to me, and I'll replay it for you.
I like this idea. I get the credit for the completion though, right?
Yes, for sure - but you have to send your Switch/Wii U along with the game.
I’d like another enemy like Lynel. Doesn’t even need to be harder, it could be like two armos that work together. I’d love more enemies that feel like they’re out to get you.
Did you know, if a bokoblin has a bow you can be in touching distance and it’ll just stand there? That’s naff.
I’d like another enemy like Lynel. Doesn’t even need to be harder, it could be like two armos that work together. I’d love more enemies that feel like they’re out to get you.
Did you know, if a bokoblin has a bow you can be in touching distance and it’ll just stand there? That’s naff.
I mean to be fair, boboklins are morons. Their greatest tactical maneuver involves sticking easily ruptured gas balloon's over fatal falls, and thinking this is safe.
I think it'd be cool if Link and Zelda were played as a duo, with the ability to swap between them at a button press. Zelda has access to magic and puzzle solving utility stuff, and when inactive she has a bow and gives Link covering fire. Link is tankier and better in combat, plus maybe has a handful of alternate utilities (say, he's heavier so he can hold down certain switches, that kind of thing). When inactive he interposes himself between Zelda and enemies to defend her. If you get a second player, both can be active simultaneously.
OK, I feel you on all that - but I do think that this approach inherently conflicts with an open world design.
The Metroidvania school of design (Note: traditional Zelda is a Metroidvania) carves up a game space into zones, and then gradually doles out keys to those zones over the course of the game (the keys can be actual keys, or items, or spells, or whatever, so long as they get you past a barrier that you couldn't get past without that "key"). The path a character takes through the game is carefully planned and predictable. Sure, sometimes you can go down Corridor A or Corridor B, but you will always have to go down both corridors before you can go through Door C.
Open world games, typically, do not restrict the player in such a way. Some areas can be harder for a low-level/under-equipped character, or some encounter can be very hard one way or trivial if you first get an item from across the map, but usually you're not inherently blocked from an area/fight/etc until you get the right key.
I may be wrong, and maybe someone can figure out a way to combine the "open world" approach with the "metered progress" approach in a way that doesn't feel unsatisfying. I hope it happens! I just can't personally see how to.
I read you. And yeah, I started replaying Oracle of Seasons last night, and the Metroidvania thing is quibbling over semantics a bit. It's definitely the same school of design--organizing the world into a series of lots at a time rather than one big box--I just never think of the term outside of side-scrollers.
I've been thinking about it, and the best I could come up with is finding some way to limit the player's means to progress without making it obvious you're doing so. Like when it comes to overcoming certain obstacles, say a mountain, even early-game you can just chug potions ad nauseum (probably literally they're made of bugs) and you're good to go. I think you could go a long way from re-evaluating how buffs work in that department, like implementing a ceiling that you expand on the way you do your inventory, or a cooldown--maybe both. Something that limits the player in a way that's subtle, since you wouldn't want to detract from the "open" nature. Not on the surface at least. But at the same time, the world itself would have to structure in a very deliberate way that keeps all of these invisible, under-the-hood limitations fully in mind without being obvious--which, with a world the size of BotW... I have major doubts whether that's plausible.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
The thing to realize about Metroidvanias is that Symphony of the Night wasn't inspired by Super Metroid - it took its design cues from A Link to the Past, with a dash of Castlevania 2 for good measure.
And LttP is pretty metroidvania in its structure, what with how you can do the light world/dark world dungeons in different orders and just need your item-shaped keys to open those problem-shaped locks (like a double jump in Symphony or Hammer in LttP).
So yeah, I'd agree with the idea that some early Zeldas are metroidvanias. Mostly just LttP, though.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Kind of a shame they didn't make a Zelda game though and just did Skyrim but emptier.
If you keep playing you'll come to find that the world is even denser than this dumb fucking comment you made.
Eh, BotW is basically Skyrim.
The problem with this statement is the implication that that's a bad thing.
I like the implication that Skyrim didn't have empty spaces. It absolutely did, about as spaced out as Breath of the Wild places of interest (hidden caves, enemy camps, shrines, horse pastures, etc). Skyrim was not dense at all and it in fact has tons of mods to fill those spaces in. And those same mods incidentally cause the most crash errors because video games need time to breathe, you can't just make their RAM use go insane all the time.
And on that note, Breath of the Wild is better than Skyrim because it's a stable video game.
Also Nintendo isn't pulling a Todd Howard trying to get BotW on every platform available.
Kind of a shame they didn't make a Zelda game though and just did Skyrim but emptier.
If you keep playing you'll come to find that the world is even denser than this dumb fucking comment you made.
Eh, BotW is basically Skyrim.
The problem with this statement is the implication that that's a bad thing.
I like the implication that Skyrim didn't have empty spaces. It absolutely did, about as spaced out as Breath of the Wild places of interest (hidden caves, enemy camps, shrines, horse pastures, etc). Skyrim was not dense at all and it in fact has tons of mods to fill those spaces in. And those same mods incidentally cause the most crash errors because video games need time to breathe, you can't just make their RAM use go insane all the time.
And on that note, Breath of the Wild is better than Skyrim because it's a stable video game.
Also Nintendo isn't pulling a Todd Howard trying to get BotW on every platform available.
I think, too, there's a valid reason why BotW is 'empty'. This is a world in decline. Ganon essentially won. He turned the Divine Beasts and all the various Ancient robots against the people. Each race's champion was killed. It's essentially a post-apocalyptic setting that's waiting for another, final apocalypse to happen because no one knows how long Zelda's seal on Ganon will last.
And even then, there's still a fair amount of stuff in the world. There's two Hylian villages - Kakariko and Hateno. There's that village you can rebuild. There's a small village for each of the four other races. There's ruins in a bunch of places. Shrines about every ten feet. Those mazes in the corners of the map. The towers. The castle. The Lost Woods. The Great Faeries. A bunch of enemy encampments.
Now, the rewards for exploring the world aren't necessarily great. You get almost everything up front on the plateau, so there's no real sense of ability/gear progression in most cases. I really wish there was a gear crafting system in the game, something that would let us use all of the non-food resources we find ourselves.
But, yeah... the point of the game is that civilization is barely hanging on and nature has reclaimed a lot of the world in its absence. And in that regard, I think the game nails it.
Know what might be neat for the next one, and cover an issue that’s been brought up?
A combat trainer! Or lots of guys that look pretty dang similar at every town or ranch or whatever places we go for a break. With names like Streik, Piarry, Stabb, Reposette, and Thump. Model them roughly off the guy that teaches you how to fight at the start of Wind Waker and just let folks learn tricks and tips at their own pace.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I think that's where ten years of the video game industry making a mistake comes in.
At some point in video games, everything players did had to kick back some sort of reward. If it was just something to do for fun, that apparently was a 'bad' thing. So achievements and such happened, or hard rewards like costumes and shit.
People need to detach themselves from that shit and realize that sometimes it's just fun to climb a mountain and find a crazy strong Lynel with a crazy strong sword and the challenge of fighting it is enough.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
By the way some crazy shit is happening in A Link to the Past RE: speedrun strats.
I think that's where ten years of the video game industry making a mistake comes in.
At some point in video games, everything players did had to kick back some sort of reward. If it was just something to do for fun, that apparently was a 'bad' thing. So achievements and such happened, or hard rewards like costumes and shit.
People need to detach themselves from that shit and realize that sometimes it's just fun to climb a mountain and find a crazy strong Lynel with a crazy strong sword and the challenge of fighting it is enough.
All of this.
Thinking back, while my favorite games have some sense of progression, I like exploration and lore for their own sake a lot more. Like, in the original Deus Ex - my mind was blown when I explored down, through the sewers, in New York and found part of the MJ12 HQ way before that part of the game's story (if you go deep enough down near the Ton Hotel, you find some interesting things). Moments like that, or finding various easter eggs in GTA, or other things along those lines stay with me a lot more than getting a blue item to replace my green item with.
BotW doesn't have much in the way of easter eggs, but it's one of the best "how far/high can I go?" games out there. Climbing up the mountains around Death Mountain and taking in the view sticks with me a lot more than the Divine Beasts or fight with Ganon.
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And changing the subject to Cadence of Hyrule, is the Hookshot in any reliable location? I've covered a lot of the map and it feels like I should have found it by now.
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A tutorial on a core gameplay mechanics should not be one of those things.
I always thought they should've made it so Hetsu had a chance to randomly show up at any stable, at least until you found his home.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Also is it "core gameplay" if they made it 90 hours without it?
Anyway I don't get the pushback against it. The game should show me how to play it and then go "here you go, have fun". Both those things are possible. It already does it.
It was just a dumb weird thing that happened and I shared my experience. What makes it even dumber is that I had watched that very same video ages ago. I guess I just forgot plus she doesn't say where the thing is. And then the same thing happens to me. Weird.
I dunno. She seemed to be doing just fine without having knowledge of said core mechanic lol
I dunno, Hestu's literally on the road between the Great Plateau and Kakariko. I know for a fact that you can miss him since my brother somehow missed the stables that are right there as well, but the geography kind of steers you straight at him: you want to go to the tower right by the Dueling Peaks, probably want to go between the Dueling Peaks, and then once on the other side following the road (possibly on a horse now, given the stable) to the quest marker leads you straight to him.
Once you've found him and done his sidequest, he actually shows up at multiple stables along the river until you progress his story further.
If you follow the roads he's extremely easy to find, it's when you start cutting a bunch of corners that you miss him. He's also on the road from Kakariko to Hateno and Hateno to Kakariko, of course, so following the main quest makes seeing him all the more likely.
Those are good tutorials for an open world game. A fixed, singular location is not, unless it is unmissable. Like, the player is forced to do it to proceed like the bomb, magnet, etc.
Anyway i'm gonna play the game more instead of arguing about design stuff. Hopefully the sequel fixes a lot of these insurmountable problems.
1. The overworld is the same minus the malice with updated NPC stories, people rebuilding hyrule, more travellers, less enemies (everybody is happy that the calamity is now gone)
2. Under most of Hyrule castle and field is a large underground space with interconnecting pathways
3. All of the shrines are now sealed since Calamity Ganon has been sealed but they still act as fast travel points (but you can't go inside them)
4. Across the world are themed dungeons hidden out of sight that have to be discovered by the player (by breaking rocks, doing some tasks in specific areas, solving a puzzle/riddle etc).
5. These dungeons give one upgrade to each of the sheikah slate (BOTW) functions that can help traversal in the new underground areas
6. The main hook/mechanic of the game is that these dungeons all have to be linked to the main cavern in order to properly seal/kill ganon
7. You play as Zelda in discovering the dungeon locations and unsealing the dungeons then you switch to Link to battle through the dungeons (pipe dream)
8. *not spoiler* Once you connect all the dungeons and collect all the mcguffins, Link and Zelda must face Ganondorf once again in the final battle
9. Oh and by the way, all the champion powers still work but not in the same way or with the same power/effects
I ... would enjoy that. Never going to happen but a man can dream ... can't he?
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Mail the game to me, and I'll replay it for you.
I like this idea. I get the credit for the completion though, right?
The only parry that I was able to get off was at the end of the game. My reflexes aren't great.
Interesting. What I want:
Going by the trailer, it looks like Link has a magic arm. This fits with art made during the development process of the first game that the developers shared, where Link had a mechanical right arm that would act as a hookshot (among other things). I'd like that to be the case with Link here.... his right arm becomes magical (maybe a gift from Farore? the arm/magic is green, and Link is more or less her champion, so it fits). This new arm forces Link to wield weapons left handed (like he usually does), and gives him new abilities, including a hookshot. Basically, you're Bionic Commando Link with even more abilities on top of it.
Zelda, who is another playable character, gets the slate with all of the goodies from the first game unlocked. Given her scientific bent, maybe her combat revolves around things she's invented, or the inventions of the people who I can't remember...? Something that's more interesting than being a clone of Link in the combat department, or otherwise being relegated as an archer.
Real dungeons with real bosses. Given how much BotW borrowed from the original LoZ, maybe use its 9 dungeons as inspiration?
A trip into the Sacred Realm, where things are the same but different. Maybe not the entire map, but enough to see some new landmarks in familiar locations. A pyramid being where Hyrule Castle currently is would rock.
Ganondorf not turning into a pig or any other kind of creature (outside of the zombie/lich he already is).
Underground locations that aren't boring. I really hate underground locations in most games, as they look/feel unimaginative. It's just the same assortment of stuff... mushrooms here, bugs there, glowing stuff every so often. I'd like something different, like huge spaces that are sort of weird, offputting mimics of outdoor spaces (imagine a Malice twisted version of the Genesis Cave from Star Trek II). Anything that doesn't just rip off D&D's Underdark or Skyrim's underground stuff.
More lore, specifically about Ganondorf. From what I can tell, he's usually evil for evil's sake because of the curse Demise made at the end of Skyward Sword. It'd be cool if they actually gave him some characterization beyond being an evil guy.
Self-learning can be applied in this game. But, more importantly, none of that is required to beat the bosses or anything. You don't have to know how to counter-attack, like it's not as though an enemy is immune to damage unless you do that to them. You don't even have to know how to dodge, you could fight at range or just take the hit (and upgrade your armor accordingly).
Edit - Also there are element resists gained via foods and potions and armor upgrades. I mean, the game gives you more than one way to handle things when the tough gets going.
Of course!
This is bullshit worst game ever made.
Did you know, if a bokoblin has a bow you can be in touching distance and it’ll just stand there? That’s naff.
I mean to be fair, boboklins are morons. Their greatest tactical maneuver involves sticking easily ruptured gas balloon's over fatal falls, and thinking this is safe.
Or sleeping around high explosive barrels
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If you keep playing you'll come to find that the world is even denser than this dumb fucking comment you made.
I read you. And yeah, I started replaying Oracle of Seasons last night, and the Metroidvania thing is quibbling over semantics a bit. It's definitely the same school of design--organizing the world into a series of lots at a time rather than one big box--I just never think of the term outside of side-scrollers.
I've been thinking about it, and the best I could come up with is finding some way to limit the player's means to progress without making it obvious you're doing so. Like when it comes to overcoming certain obstacles, say a mountain, even early-game you can just chug potions ad nauseum (probably literally they're made of bugs) and you're good to go. I think you could go a long way from re-evaluating how buffs work in that department, like implementing a ceiling that you expand on the way you do your inventory, or a cooldown--maybe both. Something that limits the player in a way that's subtle, since you wouldn't want to detract from the "open" nature. Not on the surface at least. But at the same time, the world itself would have to structure in a very deliberate way that keeps all of these invisible, under-the-hood limitations fully in mind without being obvious--which, with a world the size of BotW... I have major doubts whether that's plausible.
Eh, BotW is basically Skyrim.
The problem with this statement is the implication that that's a bad thing.
But now I can swim up waterfalls which I'll have to look around the map and see if there's anywhere I can take advantage of that.
There's a few immediate areas. A couple at least other areas around the world.
And then one other place it can be absolutely abused.
And LttP is pretty metroidvania in its structure, what with how you can do the light world/dark world dungeons in different orders and just need your item-shaped keys to open those problem-shaped locks (like a double jump in Symphony or Hammer in LttP).
So yeah, I'd agree with the idea that some early Zeldas are metroidvanias. Mostly just LttP, though.
And on that note, Breath of the Wild is better than Skyrim because it's a stable video game.
Also Nintendo isn't pulling a Todd Howard trying to get BotW on every platform available.
I think, too, there's a valid reason why BotW is 'empty'. This is a world in decline. Ganon essentially won. He turned the Divine Beasts and all the various Ancient robots against the people. Each race's champion was killed. It's essentially a post-apocalyptic setting that's waiting for another, final apocalypse to happen because no one knows how long Zelda's seal on Ganon will last.
And even then, there's still a fair amount of stuff in the world. There's two Hylian villages - Kakariko and Hateno. There's that village you can rebuild. There's a small village for each of the four other races. There's ruins in a bunch of places. Shrines about every ten feet. Those mazes in the corners of the map. The towers. The castle. The Lost Woods. The Great Faeries. A bunch of enemy encampments.
Now, the rewards for exploring the world aren't necessarily great. You get almost everything up front on the plateau, so there's no real sense of ability/gear progression in most cases. I really wish there was a gear crafting system in the game, something that would let us use all of the non-food resources we find ourselves.
But, yeah... the point of the game is that civilization is barely hanging on and nature has reclaimed a lot of the world in its absence. And in that regard, I think the game nails it.
A combat trainer! Or lots of guys that look pretty dang similar at every town or ranch or whatever places we go for a break. With names like Streik, Piarry, Stabb, Reposette, and Thump. Model them roughly off the guy that teaches you how to fight at the start of Wind Waker and just let folks learn tricks and tips at their own pace.
At some point in video games, everything players did had to kick back some sort of reward. If it was just something to do for fun, that apparently was a 'bad' thing. So achievements and such happened, or hard rewards like costumes and shit.
People need to detach themselves from that shit and realize that sometimes it's just fun to climb a mountain and find a crazy strong Lynel with a crazy strong sword and the challenge of fighting it is enough.
All of this.
Thinking back, while my favorite games have some sense of progression, I like exploration and lore for their own sake a lot more. Like, in the original Deus Ex - my mind was blown when I explored down, through the sewers, in New York and found part of the MJ12 HQ way before that part of the game's story (if you go deep enough down near the Ton Hotel, you find some interesting things). Moments like that, or finding various easter eggs in GTA, or other things along those lines stay with me a lot more than getting a blue item to replace my green item with.
BotW doesn't have much in the way of easter eggs, but it's one of the best "how far/high can I go?" games out there. Climbing up the mountains around Death Mountain and taking in the view sticks with me a lot more than the Divine Beasts or fight with Ganon.