Sombra isn't even a very efficient bunker buster, it's hard for her to farm ult charge against bunker and if the EMP doesn't work then that's kinda it.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Sombra doesn't seem to be as useful as other characters. Maybe they should add something to hack to make them worth while, like increased damage taken. Or they could make her ability last longer, making her ultimate more useful.
When I play her, I don't seem to be as team coordinated as other conventional characters. Going behind the enemies makes her seem a bit solo oriented than the others.
Ehhhh she shouldn't really be trying to gank people coming back from spawn unless it's a solo Zen - she's not like a Genji or Tracer where she's favored to win against literally anyone 1v1.
A Sombra should be working alongside her team as a bread-and-butter kinda-spammy DPS. Take the high ground and pour damage down into the reds and hack targets of opportunity (hacked tanks are generally massive value) for your team to jump as you assist with the spray & pray. Drop down to finish off weak enemies, keep the translocator back on high ground so you can reposition and immediately continue being useful.
A Sombra that has a translocator sitting on a health pack across the map who comes out of stealth to hack and empty a clip at a respawning red - might get the pick! Might not - translocate out and try again - is getting way, way less value than one who plays like a highly-mobile frontline DPS.
Think about when you're having a Really, Really Good Game on any other character - you're always shooting, healing and practically using your abilities on cooldown. A Sombra who runs around solo is never being that valuable. Even a Tracer or Genji is much the same value proposition - ganking a respawn is only worth it if you then immediately rejoin your team on the point to contribute your sizable DPS to whatever it is your Rein is swinging at.
Edit: unless you've got a real good trickle goin' on. Then just harry the respawns and give your team a continuous, significant numbers advantage on point.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
I think EMP is simply too strong. It breaks pub Sombra in a sense because she can't be made better in any other way as long as a well-executed EMP is so devastating. But most pub Sombras are not able to receive the full benefit of that.
In my scrub tiers where no one communicates the emp is almost always meaningless and frequently 1v6 for some reason. Sombras working with their team seem fine and a potentially effective bunker buster every few minutes seems fine too. Bunker is annoying with seemingly few counters as it is. I would much rather bunker be more not less bustable. But that's just the opinion of one humble country hog.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited June 2019
Making a Sombra effective requires more coordination and communication than the finickiest healers at lower levels. I played a game where I was invisible tooling around in the middle of the enemy team spamming my EMP ready line directly at DVa and everyone on my team was just too afraid to engage.
After a minute of that nonsense I had to stop and type in to ask DVa to throw her bomb in team chat before we got the quad kill
Like the one time I have EMP ready to combo is the time I get a DVa too scared to throw out a raw DVa bomb
BRIAN BLESSED on
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mightyjongyoSour CrrmEast Bay, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
As a tank/support main who is usually in a 2-3 stack and also isn't in voice, a good pub sombra is paying attention to when we are pushing in before using emp.
As the main stack, it's on us to type "emp" in chat to signal that we're ready for the push and want them to initiate if they're not paying attention.
It's just part of communication in the game imo, but you definitely get sombras who don't pay attention and emp the team after everyone is dead, and you get teams who refuse to play with or around you as sombra... But I don't think it takes much comms on either end to make it effective.
And that, to my mind, is about as close as we can get current Sombra to balanced. We can talk about ways to tinker with the hero's design and I'd be right up in that debate, but not every hero is going to have a flat curve on their winrate. I have no time whatsoever for the argument that Sombra (or heroes like her) needs buffs because lower ranked players don't get something like a 50% winrate with her. This is a moba shooter. In mobas, some heroes simply don't work the same at different levels. For instance, I have never once deliberately picked Io in DotA because he's basically the Sombra of DotA: nothing short of pros and the tippity-top level pub players can make Io work.
And that's fine. My most played hero in DotA is Rubick and tbh I also have no business playing Rubick, but he's so fun that IMO the cost-benefit analysis is still worthwhile. I'm fine with being 'held back' a little by my pick because I'm playing videogames to have fun - even in Ranked mode, stunning admission though that is to some people - and I'll accept a slightly lower MMR and a few extra losses to enjoy my limited time on this earth a little more. But at the same time I'm not lobbying Valve to buff Rubick or Io just for me and mine at the 50th (ish) percentile of DotA players. At some point you just have to accept that the hero you like might not be ideal for where you're at, and what you do with that is up to you, not the developer.
But if you really want Sombra on a flatter skill curve, we need to talk about some pretty extensive changes to her whole kit. I'd be on board with that.
Fought a Doomfist last night that would wtfpwn my team in my absence or if I left him unchecked and ended up having one of my best anti-Doom games ever. I one-clipped-and-melee'd this guy, I stuck him I think twice and for the final fight he came straight at me with a slam (juked), went right into the uppercut (whiff - I wave to him as he pops up and comes down) and charges a punch right in my face as I empty my clips into his to just squeak through on headshots.
It was awesome >.<
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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mightyjongyoSour CrrmEast Bay, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
Solo queued yesterday and got a bad string of losses... well, not bad necessarily, but frustrating because we'd do OK for the first half of the game and then fall apart at the last point. I think my final record was 2W-9L or something like that. I think I've gotten used to 2-3 stacking and having some degree of coordination rather than being left to my own devices when I start getting targeted or the team starts feeding or isn't pushing enough.
Kind of drives home that this is a game meant to be played with voice chat, I guess? But given how toxic people can be even in match chat, I certainly understand the reluctance.
Really I just need to readjust my expectations and play style when I go solo.
Also I have 200+ hours each on mercy/zen so I think people tend to assume I can solo-heal and carry the team :bigfrown:
Sombra's hack doesn't affect the enemy character she's hacking. McCree doesn't forget how to roll because of a hack, that would be silly. Instead, the hack affects the player's keyboard. Your keyboard!
A Sombra in a team that's not communicating is maybe the most useless pick possible
A Sombra in a team that's communicating is maybe the most OP pick possible
Ehhh there's a lot of useless sombras out there
Useless hacks/emps after the enemy team's already put their abilities on cooldown
Bad positioning leading to constant teleports away, making you effectively dead in every team fight
Lack of mechanics meaning they can't seriously threaten the backline in 1v1s or get picks
Wasting time hacking healthkits that have no impact on the team fight
Lack of damage not making up for the utility of hacks, esp against heroes who don't depend on their cooldowns
EMPs in a team comp that's not capable of following up on the advantage anyway
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Really I just need to readjust my expectations and play style when I go solo.
Also I have 200+ hours each on mercy/zen so I think people tend to assume I can solo-heal and carry the team :bigfrown:
This (expectations and play style). That much time on support should have already supplied you with a somewhat supernatural ability to read the ebb and flow of a teamfight in a way that DPS and tanks often can't - call it Support Sense - it's all about just backing up the teammates you can meaningfully help to score value, and wisely knowing when to abandon the ones who you expect will fail in their attempt or worse, bring you down with them.
The fun part about being The Support is that you never know who the good teammate is until they pull off something wicked - so it's always a mystery for like the first quarter of a match until you realize "oh damn this Widow is doing work" and pocket and prioritize her. When you're playing Ana and That Teammate is a Hog or Rein...
Ummmn so good.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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mightyjongyoSour CrrmEast Bay, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
Really I just need to readjust my expectations and play style when I go solo.
Also I have 200+ hours each on mercy/zen so I think people tend to assume I can solo-heal and carry the team :bigfrown:
This (expectations and play style). That much time on support should have already supplied you with a somewhat supernatural ability to read the ebb and flow of a teamfight in a way that DPS and tanks often can't - call it Support Sense - it's all about just backing up the teammates you can meaningfully help to score value, and wisely knowing when to abandon the ones who you expect will fail in their attempt or worse, bring you down with them.
The fun part about being The Support is that you never know who the good teammate is until they pull off something wicked - so it's always a mystery for like the first quarter of a match until you realize "oh damn this Widow is doing work" and pocket and prioritize her. When you're playing Ana and That Teammate is a Hog or Rein...
Ummmn so good.
Agreed, there are definitely games where you just ignore players unless they're convenient to heal because they're always feeding or out of position, sorry bud but its on you to find a health pack and get to a safe spot.
Conversely there are games where you just follow the Tracer around because they're one-clipping everything and the rest of the team is doing fine. I actually enjoy these games because I'm basically a personal cheerleader at that point and I like seeing the kill feed light up.
I also kinda like the 1-support 5-dps comps when the dps know to flank and stay alive until I can get to them, but it falls apart fast once the enemy team figures out that you just need to kill the support to win the game...
I'm just used to being able to call out and get some peels and that led to more aggressive positioning on my part overall. Just gotta remember to play more passive when I know I'm not gonna get peels as fast or at all.
Fortunately I mostly play Rein and just block everything in the world
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I don't play rein, but as an outside observer, it seems like one of the key aspect to a good rein is knowing when to charge, and perhaps more importantly, when not to.
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
How is Richard Hammond still not fixed?
Finally getting time in with the new McCree, the firing speed isn't the problem, it's how they basically removed the hitch that you click instead of hold for better accuracy; now there's no reason not to just hold the button down day erry day like it's Junkrat's primary.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Posts
Ehhhh she shouldn't really be trying to gank people coming back from spawn unless it's a solo Zen - she's not like a Genji or Tracer where she's favored to win against literally anyone 1v1.
A Sombra should be working alongside her team as a bread-and-butter kinda-spammy DPS. Take the high ground and pour damage down into the reds and hack targets of opportunity (hacked tanks are generally massive value) for your team to jump as you assist with the spray & pray. Drop down to finish off weak enemies, keep the translocator back on high ground so you can reposition and immediately continue being useful.
A Sombra that has a translocator sitting on a health pack across the map who comes out of stealth to hack and empty a clip at a respawning red - might get the pick! Might not - translocate out and try again - is getting way, way less value than one who plays like a highly-mobile frontline DPS.
Think about when you're having a Really, Really Good Game on any other character - you're always shooting, healing and practically using your abilities on cooldown. A Sombra who runs around solo is never being that valuable. Even a Tracer or Genji is much the same value proposition - ganking a respawn is only worth it if you then immediately rejoin your team on the point to contribute your sizable DPS to whatever it is your Rein is swinging at.
Edit: unless you've got a real good trickle goin' on. Then just harry the respawns and give your team a continuous, significant numbers advantage on point.
https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/pc#patch-59008
Big fan of that Orissa change.
You guys were just talking about it. I'm kind of surprised to see this fixed so fast.
vengeance for flashbang right clicking me like 5 times rude hat man
What? No. It’s hard enough to get off effectively while also making sure your team will capitalize as is.
After a minute of that nonsense I had to stop and type in to ask DVa to throw her bomb in team chat before we got the quad kill
Like the one time I have EMP ready to combo is the time I get a DVa too scared to throw out a raw DVa bomb
As the main stack, it's on us to type "emp" in chat to signal that we're ready for the push and want them to initiate if they're not paying attention.
It's just part of communication in the game imo, but you definitely get sombras who don't pay attention and emp the team after everyone is dead, and you get teams who refuse to play with or around you as sombra... But I don't think it takes much comms on either end to make it effective.
A Sombra in a team that's communicating is maybe the most OP pick possible
And that's fine. My most played hero in DotA is Rubick and tbh I also have no business playing Rubick, but he's so fun that IMO the cost-benefit analysis is still worthwhile. I'm fine with being 'held back' a little by my pick because I'm playing videogames to have fun - even in Ranked mode, stunning admission though that is to some people - and I'll accept a slightly lower MMR and a few extra losses to enjoy my limited time on this earth a little more. But at the same time I'm not lobbying Valve to buff Rubick or Io just for me and mine at the 50th (ish) percentile of DotA players. At some point you just have to accept that the hero you like might not be ideal for where you're at, and what you do with that is up to you, not the developer.
But if you really want Sombra on a flatter skill curve, we need to talk about some pretty extensive changes to her whole kit. I'd be on board with that.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
It was awesome >.<
Kind of drives home that this is a game meant to be played with voice chat, I guess? But given how toxic people can be even in match chat, I certainly understand the reluctance.
Really I just need to readjust my expectations and play style when I go solo.
Also I have 200+ hours each on mercy/zen so I think people tend to assume I can solo-heal and carry the team :bigfrown:
Sombra's hack doesn't affect the enemy character she's hacking. McCree doesn't forget how to roll because of a hack, that would be silly. Instead, the hack affects the player's keyboard. Your keyboard!
Ehhh there's a lot of useless sombras out there
Useless hacks/emps after the enemy team's already put their abilities on cooldown
Bad positioning leading to constant teleports away, making you effectively dead in every team fight
Lack of mechanics meaning they can't seriously threaten the backline in 1v1s or get picks
Wasting time hacking healthkits that have no impact on the team fight
Lack of damage not making up for the utility of hacks, esp against heroes who don't depend on their cooldowns
EMPs in a team comp that's not capable of following up on the advantage anyway
this ana knew what was up
This (expectations and play style). That much time on support should have already supplied you with a somewhat supernatural ability to read the ebb and flow of a teamfight in a way that DPS and tanks often can't - call it Support Sense - it's all about just backing up the teammates you can meaningfully help to score value, and wisely knowing when to abandon the ones who you expect will fail in their attempt or worse, bring you down with them.
The fun part about being The Support is that you never know who the good teammate is until they pull off something wicked - so it's always a mystery for like the first quarter of a match until you realize "oh damn this Widow is doing work" and pocket and prioritize her. When you're playing Ana and That Teammate is a Hog or Rein...
Ummmn so good.
Agreed, there are definitely games where you just ignore players unless they're convenient to heal because they're always feeding or out of position, sorry bud but its on you to find a health pack and get to a safe spot.
Conversely there are games where you just follow the Tracer around because they're one-clipping everything and the rest of the team is doing fine. I actually enjoy these games because I'm basically a personal cheerleader at that point and I like seeing the kill feed light up.
I also kinda like the 1-support 5-dps comps when the dps know to flank and stay alive until I can get to them, but it falls apart fast once the enemy team figures out that you just need to kill the support to win the game...
I'm just used to being able to call out and get some peels and that led to more aggressive positioning on my part overall. Just gotta remember to play more passive when I know I'm not gonna get peels as fast or at all.
Ignored the Moira, focused Doom and Widow - GG.
At first I thought it was just a joke about geese disconnecting because they didn't like their teammates picking him.
This is so dirty, I love it, A+++
That's a way higher success rate than I get >.<
I should probably practice Pulse a bit, I sometimes feel like I've lost the hang of it. But I'm still solid at headshottin' Widows!
I'm not very good at this game.
Fortunately I mostly play Rein and just block everything in the world
Is this real?
Finally getting time in with the new McCree, the firing speed isn't the problem, it's how they basically removed the hitch that you click instead of hold for better accuracy; now there's no reason not to just hold the button down day erry day like it's Junkrat's primary.
I don't know but I desperately want it to be.
I feel like they just figured out the glass bubble astronaut helm thing and are now putting it on as many skins as possible, which I don't hate.
you can get it for OWL tokens starting next weekend
Also don't really care for OWL so tokens = meh