A friend and I are crash coursing a guy on 8th edition, he hasn't played since 4th. We're currently building him a marine list with a little bit of everything in it to get him used to the new rules. It's crazy seeing how much things have changed since the last time he played.
The fact that nobody "wins combat" anymore is still utterly bizarre to me
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited June 2019
Would it be too weird to just not do the shoulder on Ragnar?
Edit: Fuck it, not doing it. Just can't find a single picture where I think it looks any good.
Stragint on
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Update: after a promising start, our new player got stomped by a Deathguard list. We're playing Blackstone now. He's got an old Guard army he's gonna bring next time, so that should be cool.
In related news, while they were playing I offered advice while building a Stormtalon and goofing around online, while doing so I saw a picture of a dude's fully painted Blood Angels army with models dating back to the late 80s. Seeing an entire army like that really makes me want to get my entire Space Marine collection painted. I've been making good progress lately but I've decided that I want to really step it up.
I think either tonight when I get home or tomorrow after work I'm going to make a full inventory of my collection and figire out what stage it is all in.
I played a match against a daemons player today at this tournament, and it really reinforced how much I love all their models
Super tempted to dip into them instead of Tau, but I still do want to win matches occasionally
The game's balance isn't actually that atrocious these days. Grey Knights get lambasted as the worst faction in the game, for instance, but players have still managed to win large tournaments with them.
I played a match against a daemons player today at this tournament, and it really reinforced how much I love all their models
Super tempted to dip into them instead of Tau, but I still do want to win matches occasionally
The game's balance isn't actually that atrocious these days. Grey Knights get lambasted as the worst faction in the game, for instance, but players have still managed to win large tournaments with them.
A friend of mine laments that his Grey Knights can't win a match. He placed 7th last year at this tourney and 17th this year. He would have placed much higher except for one match where he didn't score vs an ork player who was abusing the fact that the turns weren't timed.
I am kind of confused with my tyranid warriors as it seems I have the older spures for the most part I got a newer one in the previous start collecting {A tyrant and some gargolyes! with a squad of warriors} just I have 4 sets of legs I have not set up 5 chests {the tyranid prime is one of them} just I have a bunch of whips and swords but only 1 more deathspiter and talons I have the larger set that came on the biomorph/cannon spure Just I think 3 of the legs are going ot get screwed unless in the assault brood I have done nothing with yet I use the monsterous and the claws on some of them... Or swords
Team event our team going 2-2 and then playing the other team out gaming club sent in the last round to a draw. (Fucking lol)
Personally I went 4-1, with every win being be maximum possible score. A few thoughts
The ETC format is absolute dog shit. The worst tournament format by far. Maelstrom cards have no place in a tournament setting, especially when layered on top of existing eternal war. The real issue is that the best way to score cards is to prevent your opponent doing anything. Meaning uninteractable lists are the order of the day (flyer spam, Grot Shields, Krast knights e.t.c).
A servitor based Ad Mech list using the vigilus detachment and the kill team HQ is the real deal, it managing to shoot out my broadsides, stormsurge, riptide and every drone, nearly 1200 points of my list. On turn one.
The stormsurge is good. Really good. It fills a bunch of holes in Tau lists. (Mortal wounds, Str 10 shooting, range greater than 36”) and is incredibly versatile. It’s sheer volume of str 5 shots -1 shots, with the possibility of +1 to wound means it can easily kill anything from a heavy target to multiple smaller units. It managed to net itself two swarmlord kills over the tournament. D6 shots is a little iffy on the cannon, though the output it does do is extremely powerful (especially as it’s very easy to make it 2+ to hit rerolling, normally 3+ possible 2+ to wound and with -4ap anything without an invuln is going to have a really bad time). A lot more survivable than I thought largely due to range or the just sheer number of alternate targets in the list.
Broadsides are still pretty much the best unit in Tau. I still think more than 1 unit is a liability.
I like the new deployment rules in CA with the exception that winning the roll and picking table side, only to go second feels weird? Like you basically lost the roll, you want to go first 90% of the time. It’s odd.
The ETC format is absolute dog shit. The worst tournament format by far. Maelstrom cards have no place in a tournament setting, especially when layered on top of existing eternal war. The real issue is that the best way to score cards is to prevent your opponent doing anything. Meaning uninteractable lists are the order of the day (flyer spam, Grot Shields, Krast knights e.t.c).
Man, maybe I'm just weird but I really like Maelstrom cards. Not sure I understand your criticism as in most cases uninteractive lists will just let your opponent pick up free points if they choose to focus on objectives.
Today in kill teams my flash git, on the first shot of the first ready fire phase killed three models by taking his first set of shots and kiling my opponents leader, a terminator, rolling a 6 on the gun crazy show off check and killing a second terminator with his second round of shots. Then after he failed the follow on gun crazy showoff check I used the daka daka daka tactic, and had him shoot again at the guy in the pill box fortress killing him as well, unfortunately after making my gun crazy show off check again my last round of shots were less effective than all three other shots, and I failed the next gun crazy show off check... however I feel my 27 point model earned his keep. The rest of the game was cleanup.
If you'll all permit me a moment to brag, I just gave my friend a pretty cool gift. I think many of you know I'm military, and we move around a lot. We tend to make a lot of acquaintances, but only a few close friends at each assignment, and these friendships tend to be accelerated because of it. So this friend of mine has been into 40k for a long time but has never had the time to actually get into it and buy models, but we spent a lot of time talking about it. Because I knew his favorite faction is Chaos Space Marines, I bought him a box when the new molds came out, and I decided I'd paint them up for him as a sort of going away present.
Now he would have me and a few other friends over for dinner fairly often, and we played a lot of board games. His wife is super fun and pretty competitive too, and she also teased him a lot about his 'nerd' hobby, though in a friendly way: she's equally nerdy, just not into 40k. Well, I conspired with her to reach out to his high-school friends and find out what CSM legion he used to have back then, and ended up trying my hand at painting some Iron Warriors stripes. I did some freehand and also with an airbrush, and learned a lot in the process. These new CSM sculpts have a lot of detail btw. Certainly these are the most involved models I've painted. Here's a work in progress shot (unfortunately I was so rushed in the end that I forgot to take a picture of the final result):
I also experimented with magnetizing the special weapons guys so that he could swap loadouts. A 10-man CSM squads not enough to play 40k, but we all know that Kill Team is where it's at now. Unfortunately the closest games are about an hour drive away as we don't know anyone else in our circle of friends who play. I worried that it would be a somewhat neglected gift on it's own. So I went a little further.
He and his wife play a lot of board games together and are always asking me for new recommendations. Kill Team Arena is pretty board-game like if you ask me. Still I was worried that she wouldn't want to play considering how much she teases him about it. So I decided to stack the deck. I covertly asked her for her favorite colors, disguising the question as what accent colors I would put on the CSMs. I then picked up some Space Elves, because (pardon the slight bit of sexism) I figured that they're the sexiest faction. Again I don't have the finished pictures, but I also ran out of time, so unfortunately her models were pretty simple with just the base colors on them and a slight wash to be 'table ready.' I did try using Minitaire Ghost Tints to make that candy coat sheen. It was a bit advanced for me, and I think if I did it again I would have gone with a grey scale undercoat instead of a silver one.
Here it is after a coat of "orange"
This is the basecoat finished with layered red and magenta to achieve the orange to dark red gradient.
Lastly I did the arena objective markers, but I was seriously out of time for those, so unfortunately they weren't finished: just a single color and an Agrax wash. Also no pictures because I basically did them all yesterday.
So with the gifts in hand, I wanted to maximize the surprise factor. I took out the CSMs first to show him what my latest project was. I didn't get much of a reaction unfortunately with the reveal: he probably just thought it was a coincidence I'd painted his previous favorites. Then I asked him "Do you like them? Because they're yours." and that got a good feeling. I then asked if we could at least play one game before I left town and he said something to the effect of "Well, I've never played Kill Team so I don't think I'd be much of a challenge." Which was a great set up to pair him off against his wife. I pulled out the space elves and set up the arena and then told her the other half of the surprise: everything on the table was now theirs!
We then played through a game with me explaining the rules and trying to share some strategy. To be honest, I kinda stacked the deck on him giving his wife a really mobile team like that and showing her how to rack up the mobility objectives since I wasn't sure how she was going to like it. It turned out she was really excited to finally be able to play this game with her husband. Beating him by a landslide was the icing on the cake. They were super appreciative, and it was a great night to celebrate my last weekend in town. In the excitement I totally forgot to take pictures of the game, but I asked them to send me some from the next time they play. Anyway I just wanted to share.
I played a match against a daemons player today at this tournament, and it really reinforced how much I love all their models
Super tempted to dip into them instead of Tau, but I still do want to win matches occasionally
The game's balance isn't actually that atrocious these days. Grey Knights get lambasted as the worst faction in the game, for instance, but players have still managed to win large tournaments with them.
I played a match against a daemons player today at this tournament, and it really reinforced how much I love all their models
Super tempted to dip into them instead of Tau, but I still do want to win matches occasionally
The game's balance isn't actually that atrocious these days. Grey Knights get lambasted as the worst faction in the game, for instance, but players have still managed to win large tournaments with them.
What? Which "large tournaments"?
They won a GT in Australia just before the FAQ dropped. But GK are still terrible.
Mazzyx on
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I keep trying to think of a good way to play apoc with my friends but nothing comes to mind. I have about 10k in Necrons and 14k in Space Wolves. One friend has 2k in Blood Angels, one has 2k in Custodes, and my brother has about 6k in Death Guard.
We already do 4 player games where we each run 2k.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I played a match against a daemons player today at this tournament, and it really reinforced how much I love all their models
Super tempted to dip into them instead of Tau, but I still do want to win matches occasionally
The game's balance isn't actually that atrocious these days. Grey Knights get lambasted as the worst faction in the game, for instance, but players have still managed to win large tournaments with them.
What? Which "large tournaments"?
They won a GT in Australia just before the FAQ dropped. But GK are still terrible.
Lol I saw the results of that GT, nevermind Grey Knights, his list featured multiple Land Raiders. like I don't understand, does no one own an Imperial Knight down there?
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
the bolter rules helped a little but non-optimized grey knights are kinda bad even against daemons.
and this is before getting to the "you get to replace a unit killed by GK for free" strat.
unrelatedly I'm thinking about how 40k dropping the no damage spillover rule would solve a *lot* of problems with the game right now, while probably adding a bunch of new ones.
the bolter rules helped a little but non-optimized grey knights are kinda bad even against daemons.
and this is before getting to the "you get to replace a unit killed by GK for free" strat.
unrelatedly I'm thinking about how 40k dropping the no damage spillover rule would solve a *lot* of problems with the game right now, while probably adding a bunch of new ones.
Space marines: somehow even worse now.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
the bolter rules helped a little but non-optimized grey knights are kinda bad even against daemons.
and this is before getting to the "you get to replace a unit killed by GK for free" strat.
unrelatedly I'm thinking about how 40k dropping the no damage spillover rule would solve a *lot* of problems with the game right now, while probably adding a bunch of new ones.
damage occurring at the end of the turn would solve a lot of balance issues
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
also damage spillover applying to combat only would probably solve a lot of the issues around elite armies getting tarpitted by hordes
gutfeeling has me preferring no damage spillover because it differentiates between types of weapons better. On the other hand if 40k adopted the small target/large target differentiation for the wound roll from Apoc that wouldn't be needed anymore, I think.
The ETC format is absolute dog shit. The worst tournament format by far. Maelstrom cards have no place in a tournament setting, especially when layered on top of existing eternal war. The real issue is that the best way to score cards is to prevent your opponent doing anything. Meaning uninteractable lists are the order of the day (flyer spam, Grot Shields, Krast knights e.t.c).
Man, maybe I'm just weird but I really like Maelstrom cards. Not sure I understand your criticism as in most cases uninteractive lists will just let your opponent pick up free points if they choose to focus on objectives.
Maelstrom cards are fine.
Maelstrom cards in what’s being billed as a competetive tournament have no place. You should not lose a game simply because you didn’t draw any scoreable objectives.
What I mean by uninteractable lists is a side effect of the cards. You can’t control the draw so the easiest way to guarantee an advantage when using them is to prevent your opponent from being able to do anything. The top lists for example were Eldar Flyers with 7 planes, 4 knight krast armies, Orks and GSC. They all worked in the same way, pin you in your deployment with huge bases or a sea of guys to reduce the chance of your opponent pulling scoreable cards. The ways to beat this are to A) Have he same kind of army and go first or be able to chew through the stalling fast enough to start scoring. B is how I did so we’ll but a lot of lists just don’t have the tools to do that.
Norgoth, Eldar flyer bullshit and Krast Knight + friends are top lists in ITC too so I'm not sure why that's so damning. I admit maelstrom cards can result in more of a "reacting to random twists" game that can absolutely be decidedly unfair to one person, but while I haven't played in the ETC format, European lists are the only place I see a lot of particular units.
For example right after the LVO there was some big ETC event where the top two players were playing Imperial Guard with Chimera transports. Between the two of them they had like a dozen chimeras, more chimeras than were present in the entire sum of the LVO, I don't know why transports were viable in their meta, but I'd like that to be true here in the US as well.
The ETC format is absolute dog shit. The worst tournament format by far. Maelstrom cards have no place in a tournament setting, especially when layered on top of existing eternal war. The real issue is that the best way to score cards is to prevent your opponent doing anything. Meaning uninteractable lists are the order of the day (flyer spam, Grot Shields, Krast knights e.t.c).
Man, maybe I'm just weird but I really like Maelstrom cards. Not sure I understand your criticism as in most cases uninteractive lists will just let your opponent pick up free points if they choose to focus on objectives.
Maelstrom cards are fine.
Maelstrom cards in what’s being billed as a competetive tournament have no place. You should not lose a game simply because you didn’t draw any scoreable objectives.
Between the stratagem to discard an objective, discarding an objective at the end of your turn, and the new Refined Strategy rule from the Chapter Approved missions that allow you to discard six before the game starts you shouldn't really be faced with a huge number of unscoreable objectives even if you get unlucky. They're definitely a random element but I like that it encourages lists to be built somewhat flexibly.
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I feel it sucks I got fired as I just wanted the necron and eldar ones o well I will sulk off now
The fact that nobody "wins combat" anymore is still utterly bizarre to me
Edit: Fuck it, not doing it. Just can't find a single picture where I think it looks any good.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
In related news, while they were playing I offered advice while building a Stormtalon and goofing around online, while doing so I saw a picture of a dude's fully painted Blood Angels army with models dating back to the late 80s. Seeing an entire army like that really makes me want to get my entire Space Marine collection painted. I've been making good progress lately but I've decided that I want to really step it up.
I think either tonight when I get home or tomorrow after work I'm going to make a full inventory of my collection and figire out what stage it is all in.
Oh, I must have misread. Next week then!
I played a match against a daemons player today at this tournament, and it really reinforced how much I love all their models
Super tempted to dip into them instead of Tau, but I still do want to win matches occasionally
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Depends, pure demons are ok.
Demons plus a handful of Chaos support units are one of the top tier armies at the moment.
The game's balance isn't actually that atrocious these days. Grey Knights get lambasted as the worst faction in the game, for instance, but players have still managed to win large tournaments with them.
A friend of mine laments that his Grey Knights can't win a match. He placed 7th last year at this tourney and 17th this year. He would have placed much higher except for one match where he didn't score vs an ork player who was abusing the fact that the turns weren't timed.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
No. The goofy wolf shoulder pad is a relic from 2nd edition. It should not be part of a modernization.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Team event our team going 2-2 and then playing the other team out gaming club sent in the last round to a draw. (Fucking lol)
Personally I went 4-1, with every win being be maximum possible score. A few thoughts
The ETC format is absolute dog shit. The worst tournament format by far. Maelstrom cards have no place in a tournament setting, especially when layered on top of existing eternal war. The real issue is that the best way to score cards is to prevent your opponent doing anything. Meaning uninteractable lists are the order of the day (flyer spam, Grot Shields, Krast knights e.t.c).
A servitor based Ad Mech list using the vigilus detachment and the kill team HQ is the real deal, it managing to shoot out my broadsides, stormsurge, riptide and every drone, nearly 1200 points of my list. On turn one.
The stormsurge is good. Really good. It fills a bunch of holes in Tau lists. (Mortal wounds, Str 10 shooting, range greater than 36”) and is incredibly versatile. It’s sheer volume of str 5 shots -1 shots, with the possibility of +1 to wound means it can easily kill anything from a heavy target to multiple smaller units. It managed to net itself two swarmlord kills over the tournament. D6 shots is a little iffy on the cannon, though the output it does do is extremely powerful (especially as it’s very easy to make it 2+ to hit rerolling, normally 3+ possible 2+ to wound and with -4ap anything without an invuln is going to have a really bad time). A lot more survivable than I thought largely due to range or the just sheer number of alternate targets in the list.
Broadsides are still pretty much the best unit in Tau. I still think more than 1 unit is a liability.
I like the new deployment rules in CA with the exception that winning the roll and picking table side, only to go second feels weird? Like you basically lost the roll, you want to go first 90% of the time. It’s odd.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Man, maybe I'm just weird but I really like Maelstrom cards. Not sure I understand your criticism as in most cases uninteractive lists will just let your opponent pick up free points if they choose to focus on objectives.
New models don't have their own box. Old models are out of print. Try Ebay for shadowspear sprues. Usually you can get two for about $30.
Also I just accepted my fate and got my 3rd Lord Discordant. Building this one with a flamer. So 3 LD list for me for NoVA Open now.
Crap... To eBay!
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Ebay is a bizarre place for cheap models
Now he would have me and a few other friends over for dinner fairly often, and we played a lot of board games. His wife is super fun and pretty competitive too, and she also teased him a lot about his 'nerd' hobby, though in a friendly way: she's equally nerdy, just not into 40k. Well, I conspired with her to reach out to his high-school friends and find out what CSM legion he used to have back then, and ended up trying my hand at painting some Iron Warriors stripes. I did some freehand and also with an airbrush, and learned a lot in the process. These new CSM sculpts have a lot of detail btw. Certainly these are the most involved models I've painted. Here's a work in progress shot (unfortunately I was so rushed in the end that I forgot to take a picture of the final result):
I also experimented with magnetizing the special weapons guys so that he could swap loadouts. A 10-man CSM squads not enough to play 40k, but we all know that Kill Team is where it's at now. Unfortunately the closest games are about an hour drive away as we don't know anyone else in our circle of friends who play. I worried that it would be a somewhat neglected gift on it's own. So I went a little further.
He and his wife play a lot of board games together and are always asking me for new recommendations. Kill Team Arena is pretty board-game like if you ask me. Still I was worried that she wouldn't want to play considering how much she teases him about it. So I decided to stack the deck. I covertly asked her for her favorite colors, disguising the question as what accent colors I would put on the CSMs. I then picked up some Space Elves, because (pardon the slight bit of sexism) I figured that they're the sexiest faction. Again I don't have the finished pictures, but I also ran out of time, so unfortunately her models were pretty simple with just the base colors on them and a slight wash to be 'table ready.' I did try using Minitaire Ghost Tints to make that candy coat sheen. It was a bit advanced for me, and I think if I did it again I would have gone with a grey scale undercoat instead of a silver one.
This is the basecoat finished with layered red and magenta to achieve the orange to dark red gradient.
Lastly I did the arena objective markers, but I was seriously out of time for those, so unfortunately they weren't finished: just a single color and an Agrax wash. Also no pictures because I basically did them all yesterday.
So with the gifts in hand, I wanted to maximize the surprise factor. I took out the CSMs first to show him what my latest project was. I didn't get much of a reaction unfortunately with the reveal: he probably just thought it was a coincidence I'd painted his previous favorites. Then I asked him "Do you like them? Because they're yours." and that got a good feeling. I then asked if we could at least play one game before I left town and he said something to the effect of "Well, I've never played Kill Team so I don't think I'd be much of a challenge." Which was a great set up to pair him off against his wife. I pulled out the space elves and set up the arena and then told her the other half of the surprise: everything on the table was now theirs!
We then played through a game with me explaining the rules and trying to share some strategy. To be honest, I kinda stacked the deck on him giving his wife a really mobile team like that and showing her how to rack up the mobility objectives since I wasn't sure how she was going to like it. It turned out she was really excited to finally be able to play this game with her husband. Beating him by a landslide was the icing on the cake. They were super appreciative, and it was a great night to celebrate my last weekend in town. In the excitement I totally forgot to take pictures of the game, but I asked them to send me some from the next time they play. Anyway I just wanted to share.
What? Which "large tournaments"?
They won a GT in Australia just before the FAQ dropped. But GK are still terrible.
We already do 4 player games where we each run 2k.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Lol I saw the results of that GT, nevermind Grey Knights, his list featured multiple Land Raiders. like I don't understand, does no one own an Imperial Knight down there?
and this is before getting to the "you get to replace a unit killed by GK for free" strat.
unrelatedly I'm thinking about how 40k dropping the no damage spillover rule would solve a *lot* of problems with the game right now, while probably adding a bunch of new ones.
Space marines: somehow even worse now.
damage occurring at the end of the turn would solve a lot of balance issues
@Khraul I have 4 metal oblits for sale, if you wish.
melee dreadnoughts might actually be useful again.
Now this I feel is better than shooting spillover.
Maelstrom cards are fine.
Maelstrom cards in what’s being billed as a competetive tournament have no place. You should not lose a game simply because you didn’t draw any scoreable objectives.
What I mean by uninteractable lists is a side effect of the cards. You can’t control the draw so the easiest way to guarantee an advantage when using them is to prevent your opponent from being able to do anything. The top lists for example were Eldar Flyers with 7 planes, 4 knight krast armies, Orks and GSC. They all worked in the same way, pin you in your deployment with huge bases or a sea of guys to reduce the chance of your opponent pulling scoreable cards. The ways to beat this are to A) Have he same kind of army and go first or
For example right after the LVO there was some big ETC event where the top two players were playing Imperial Guard with Chimera transports. Between the two of them they had like a dozen chimeras, more chimeras than were present in the entire sum of the LVO, I don't know why transports were viable in their meta, but I'd like that to be true here in the US as well.
Weird that inferno boltguns are 6+/8+ when Interessor bolt rifles are 5+/8+.
Between the stratagem to discard an objective, discarding an objective at the end of your turn, and the new Refined Strategy rule from the Chapter Approved missions that allow you to discard six before the game starts you shouldn't really be faced with a huge number of unscoreable objectives even if you get unlucky. They're definitely a random element but I like that it encourages lists to be built somewhat flexibly.
Appreciate the offer man, but I will pass. Just trying to find those new models.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6