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US Immigration Policy - Travel advisory: don't go to the South if you're Hispanic/Latino

HenroidHenroid Radio DemonInternet HellRegistered User regular
edited 2:39AM in Debate and/or Discourse
Welcome to the thread for discussing US immigration policy. They are currently decided by the Trump administration, and it's gotten really fucking bad.

Things that are on-topic for this thread:
- immigration policy by the executive office
- immigration legislation
- administration or law enforcement comments / actions pertaining to immigration & policy or legislation thereof
- the opposition party's response, be it words or actions, to the above (specifically only in the scope of immigration, not election strategy or anything else)
- history of US immigration policy, though mostly if it's helping to frame current events in context of some sort

What the thread is not for!
- discussion of Democratic Party failures in a general sense
- the election, past or present or future
- being a goose at one another
- bashing our heads into the wall over and over when there's an impasse; gotta let stuff go when a disagreement shows up

Where we left off last thread iteration:
- A federal judge ruled Sunday that health inspectors must be allowed onto the concentration camps the kids are being held in (probably why the administration was trying to move the kids to military facilities, to change the rules about who is allowed on-site)
- Yesterday some congressmen were allowed to be on-site at one of the camps. Things are as horrible as you'd expect, but also, the law enforcement agents running these places are reveling in the misery they're inflicting on children. AOC rightfully yelled at them for doing as such, and unfortunately that is what is leading the few headlines about all this.
- Late last week the Democratic Party caved and voted to provide funds to immigration officials in a disappointing betrayal of stipulations they had laid out regarding the treatment of the children at these camps. Up 'til that moment, they were trying to fight for the funds to go toward providing better conditions for the children.
- The ACLU won a fight in court to permanently stop Trump's "emergency" declaration to use funds from elsewhere in the government to build his stupid wall. Back in May it was temporarily halted, but at the end of June it was put to a stop permanently. It didn't help that he literally said it wasn't really an emergency, it turns out!

As per mod request, topicality will be enforced here.

Edit - To explain the title change on August 22nd:
Preacher wrote: »


This is the result of the Trump admin making being brown illegal. I just can't even.
The sheriff department said they have a "policy" of holding anyone of Hispanic / Latino descent to check their status. This is crazy-ass profiling but also makes travel through the south dangerous as other local governments probably operate in the same fashion.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    I get the impression that Democratic leadership has decided that the only way we will get rid of concentration camps is by beating Trump in 2020, and so they have pretty much given up on doing anything in the meantime

    Which is depressing, because people are dying now, and there are things we can do to help while we don’t have all the power

    Thank god for people like Castro and AOC, hopefully they can be a bit more inspirational

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I get the impression that Democratic leadership has decided that the only way we will get rid of concentration camps is by beating Trump in 2020, and so they have pretty much given up on doing anything in the meantime

    Which is depressing, because people are dying now, and there are things we can do to help while we don’t have all the power

    Thank god for people like Castro and AOC, hopefully they can be a bit more inspirational
    I dunno. The vote that happened last week was because of the Blue Dogs up and saying they don't really care. Which is a huge goddamn problem and yikes.

    I don't think the Democrats are done fighting the shit going on, but the unity in that fight is in question. For the time being we have independent groups like the ACLU doing what they can.

    As an aside Some More News (satirical channel) put up a new video today focusing on John Kelly and how he pushed for these camps to start up (run by for-profit prisons), then when he left the administration he immediately joined the board of one of those businesses to start making money off it. The grift is real. But also, grifting on the suffering of children. There's a guy that's betting that Hell doesn't exist.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I get the impression that Democratic leadership has decided that the only way we will get rid of concentration camps is by beating Trump in 2020, and so they have pretty much given up on doing anything in the meantime

    Which is depressing, because people are dying now, and there are things we can do to help while we don’t have all the power

    Thank god for people like Castro and AOC, hopefully they can be a bit more inspirational
    I dunno. The vote that happened last week was because of the Blue Dogs up and saying they don't really care. Which is a huge goddamn problem and yikes.

    I don't think the Democrats are done fighting the shit going on, but the unity in that fight is in question. For the time being we have independent groups like the ACLU doing what they can.

    As an aside Some More News (satirical channel) put up a new video today focusing on John Kelly and how he pushed for these camps to start up (run by for-profit prisons), then when he left the administration he immediately joined the board of one of those businesses to start making money off it. The grift is real. But also, grifting on the suffering of children. There's a guy that's betting that Hell doesn't exist.

    Can we at least get their motivation right? They're cowards, but they do care. The specifically given reason for approving the Senate bill was that they didn't want to have a big delay over things. Because people would be pissed they took too long to act.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    They didn’t even try to explain to the people that they wanted to be sure the money was going to the right things

    They caved pretty much immediately

    So hell yes I am angry at leadership

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited July 2
    If leadership can't win the fight over running concentration camps I have zero idea what the hell they are doing leading anything.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
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  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    I've said it a few times in these threads and I'll say it again: these agencies must be abolished and the people in them prosecuted. Period. Nothing less is acceptable.

    I don't give a fuck if we'd lose votes over it. It's the right thing to do.

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  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    There were national protests today and I was in attendance in downtown Austin, where hundreds of people showed up in the heat to listen to a number of activists and politicians speak, including several running against GOP Congresspeople who have supported the camps, and one woman who spoke Spanish and described her experiences crossing the border seeking asylum in 2010 and being detained for years before finally being granted freedom.

    It was excellent and inspiring and there were some great signs (my favorite was “Trump, the only children who belong in jail are YOURS”).

    (Inlining my own tweet because I’m on mobile and can’t check image sizes)

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I hated how the AP article on the facebook page had to include some both sides bullshit "AOC flamed tensions by calling them concentration camps" yeah those fucking assholes surely had their feelings hurt being called the goose stepping morons they are.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited July 2
    Especially since they fucking are, even if no one but her wants to say/admit it.

    Yes, we have concentration camps in this country. Again.

    Commander Zoom on
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    What's really dumb about these complaints or whatever is the people running these things fully intend on them being concentration camps. They probably make references to actual nazi death camps among themselves, but how dare someone else point that out too.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    What's really dumb about these complaints or whatever is the people running these things fully intend on them being concentration camps. They probably make references to actual nazi death camps among themselves, but how dare someone else point that out too.

    Other people pointing it out makes it more difficult for them to execute their vision

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/photos-overcrowding-immigration-border-facilities

    The Office of the Inspector General report has photos that show how bad the overcrowding is.

    It's really fucking bad.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    God damn at what point is enough enough here?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    God damn at what point is enough enough here?

    Republicans have the Senate and Presidency and Supreme Court, so either after they're done with the ethnic cleansing or they get voted out. Cause they sure as hell don't have a problem with any of it because they're a party of racists and fascists.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/photos-overcrowding-immigration-border-facilities

    The Office of the Inspector General report has photos that show how bad the overcrowding is.

    It's really fucking bad.

    What

    The

    Fuck

    We are the monsters, it’s us

    America deserves to be sanctioned for this shit

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    God damn at what point is enough enough here?

    Republicans have the Senate and Presidency and Supreme Court, so either after they're done with the ethnic cleansing or they get voted out. Cause they sure as hell don't have a problem with any of it because they're a party of racists and fascists.

    And/or sufficient screaming from the populace. Ain't fixing this shit legislatively as things stand but enough pissed people can pressure even the GOP.

    Gnome-InterruptusMan in the Mists
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited July 2
    The only way this actually ends is in 2021 imo. Trump and the GOP aren't gonna stop. If the Trump Admin has any actual ideology beyond graft and enabling Trump's many psychological faults, it's white supremacy. And the concentration camps are core to the white supremacist agenda. They aren't gonna be stopped by trying to negotiate a funding bill or some bad press attention or whatever. This is too important to them for that.

    shryke on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular


    Lawyer opposing the citizenship question on the census. It appears the materials are being printed without the citizenship question.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I mean at this point the only thing I feel would actually do justice is the full Nuremberg experience

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I mean at this point the only thing I feel would actually do justice is the full Nuremberg experience

    Honestly that's my thought too. But I hope congressional oversight can at least get us closer to that.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I mean at this point the only thing I feel would actually do justice is the full Nuremberg experience

    I'm trying to remember the last time anyone was actually held accountable for anything.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I mean at this point the only thing I feel would actually do justice is the full Nuremberg experience

    I'm trying to remember the last time anyone was actually held accountable for anything.

    Only person fired for all of this was the cartoonist who drew that "mind if I play through" cartoon.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I mean at this point the only thing I feel would actually do justice is the full Nuremberg experience

    I'm trying to remember the last time anyone was actually held accountable for anything.

    Only person fired for all of this was the cartoonist who drew that "mind if I play through" cartoon.

    The good news is that guy was only contracting for the New Brunswick paper, and is still very much employed by a Halifax one (he worked as a contractor for both, and they wrote a defense of him and how they intend to keep him on)

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  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I mean at this point the only thing I feel would actually do justice is the full Nuremberg experience

    I'm trying to remember the last time anyone was actually held accountable for anything.

    That one Bosnian dude poisoned himself at the Hague.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I mean at this point the only thing I feel would actually do justice is the full Nuremberg experience

    I'm trying to remember the last time anyone was actually held accountable for anything.

    Hillary had a million hearings on Beghazi.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I mean at this point the only thing I feel would actually do justice is the full Nuremberg experience

    I'm trying to remember the last time anyone was actually held accountable for anything.

    Hillary had a million hearings on Beghazi.

    Sorry - how about things that they actually did?

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited July 3
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I mean at this point the only thing I feel would actually do justice is the full Nuremberg experience

    I'm trying to remember the last time anyone was actually held accountable for anything.

    Hillary had a million hearings on Beghazi.

    Sorry - how about things that they actually did?

    Iran Contra, iirc.

    EDIT: Which they all got pardoned for, so I guess that actually nullifies my recollection.

    Hacksaw on
    DocSpoitNo-QuarterJulius
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Oversight is having hearings on the 12th about conditions in these camps.

    Well I hope something comes of this.

    I mean at this point the only thing I feel would actually do justice is the full Nuremberg experience

    I'm trying to remember the last time anyone was actually held accountable for anything.

    Hillary had a million hearings on Beghazi.

    Sorry - how about things that they actually did?

    Emails? kindasortanotreally

    steam_sig.png
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The IG report is FINALLY getting the kind of coverage this deserves, I think because of those photos.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    The IG report is FINALLY getting the kind of coverage this deserves, I think because of those photos.

    Yup. It's sad but nothing really gets it across like photographic evidence. Which is why they banned Congress from bringing phones in of course.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    The IG report is FINALLY getting the kind of coverage this deserves, I think because of those photos.

    Yup. It's sad but nothing really gets it across like photographic evidence. Which is why they banned Congress from bringing phones in of course.

    Pictures and Video are just more emotionally connectable.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I see the nazi loving fucks are trying a new attack on AOC that she was verbally abusive to those poor CBP personnel. Man fuck those guys, you are treating people worse than the taliban you should be verbally abused.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    They're comitting war crimes on noncombatants, and there is no war. Yelling is less than they deserve.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 3
    Preacher wrote: »
    God damn at what point is enough enough here?

    Republicans have the Senate and Presidency and Supreme Court, so either after they're done with the ethnic cleansing or they get voted out. Cause they sure as hell don't have a problem with any of it because they're a party of racists and fascists.

    There is no such thing as "done" with ethnic cleansing.

    Incenjucar on
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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    In case anyone forgot about media complicity, I'm seeing articles from ABC with the word "purportedly" in the title and 'dank, dirty' in quotes in order to cast maximum doubt on *video evidence from a government official*.

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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    In case anyone forgot about media complicity, I'm seeing articles from ABC with the word "purportedly" in the title and 'dank, dirty' in quotes in order to cast maximum doubt on *video evidence from a government official*.

    I think you mean video "evidence" from a "government" "official".

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    In case anyone forgot about media complicity, I'm seeing articles from ABC with the word "purportedly" in the title and 'dank, dirty' in quotes in order to cast maximum doubt on *video evidence from a government official*.
    As obvious as the evidence is, part of me (not much, like a very tiny fraction) gives the benefit of doubt on media companies using that kind of language because they want to avoid libel and slander laws. Unless they themselves have hard evidence or an eye-witness account (unnamed sources that would be named in court but would do damage to the entity in question) that can be used in the court of law, they're going to be soft on their wording.

    But! All of that aside, fuck ABC and any other outlet going "WELL WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE~" - we fucking know.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    This is not satire.
    The latest hard-line effort by the administration as it clamps down on illegal immigration at the border and increases interior enforcement.

    "It is the intention of ICE to order you pay a fine in the amount of $497,777," Lisa Hoechst, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officer, wrote to Edith Espinal Moreno in a letter dated June 25, 2019, obtained by NPR from lawyers for Moreno.
    Espinal, 42, said she could not believe the U.S. government thought she would have almost half a million dollars. She has been living in sanctuary at an Ohio church since an immigration judge ordered her removed two years ago. The church, its congregation and the community have largely supported her and her family.

    "They want to scare me," Espinal said, adding, "because they know I am in sanctuary. And they know I don't have this amount of money."

    Espinal said she came to the United States from Mexico with her father when she was 16. She now has three children of her own, including two who are U.S. citizens. She said her whole life is in the United States and she cannot return to Mexico.
    ICE said the Immigration and Nationality Act grants the agency the right to impose "civil fines on aliens who have been ordered removed or granted voluntary departure and fail to depart the United States."

    It states fines of no more than $500 for each day the person is in violation of this section. But immigration lawyers say they've never heard of it used in this manner.

    Her attorney hits it right on the head.
    Espinal's attorney, Lizbeth Mateo, said she started laughing when she first saw the letter. She fears the administration is laying the groundwork for criminal penalties and could use fees in other ways to increase pressure on immigrants to leave.

    "It's almost half a million dollars. Are they for real? Do they really think that she's going to pay this?" Mateo said. "I laughed, because there has to be someone in some basement in D.C. thinking, 'Oh, what else can I do to mess with immigrants? What else can I do to hurt them?' "

    Well, we know they aren't in a basement though.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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