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[Overwatch] Workshop now included.

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    miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    i feel like the should up brig's refresh rate if they're gonna drop her shield down to only 200

    uc3ufTB.png
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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    I kinda' wish they'd stated reasons for most of those Brig changes so I could complain about it. And I hate how few details they always give in patch notes. So Repair Pack has 3 charges, now - how often does a charge take to generate? If it's the same as it is currently, it's hardly a buff at all and only really makes Brig's healing slightly stronger in the opening few seconds of a teamfight.

    Edit: but a 30% increase on inspire is actually pretty huge.

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Holy fuck it's so much worse than I imagined.

    Skill Tier Before After New Total
    Bronze 65 25 75
    Silver 125 50 150
    Gold 250 100 300
    Platinum 500 200 600
    Diamond 750 300 900
    Master 1200 450 1350
    Grandmaster 1750 650 1950

    So if you want the same SR you earned last season you damn well better be at your main hero's highest SR across all 3 roles!

    Ugh.

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    I'm happy with the role changes, it's not perfect but it has a lot of big benefits. Jeff makes all the right arguments in the video, he basically said everything I would have posted about it. In particular, role skill ranking improves the entire game's matchmaking quality which benefits everyone, and sanity being restored to QP is a big deal. I suspect that when they designed Overwatch, they didn't realize quite the extent to which team comp makes or breaks the game, and they underestimated just how stubborn pub players are about prioritizing their own character choice over their team's composition. The game simply doesn't work when the team comp is in chaos. So this is ultimately just a necessary compromise to fix player behavior.

    Jeff also pointed out what I was thinking which is that this has massive balance ramifications. All their balance metrics today exist in the context of flexible team comps, and those numbers are going to change completely when everyone is playing 2-2-2. Brigitte is the start of that, since only having two healers means every support needs to hold their weight in raw healing. We might see something similar with the dive/bruiser tanks, hard to say. But now who knows what the change to Brigitte and the death of various comps will do to the viability of the damage heroes; some will be OP, some will be gimped, and every time you make balance changes it further alters the balance of the rest of the hero pool. Blizzard has no way of predicting it.

    Overall though I'm excited by this and I think I'll start playing again. I never really liked playing competitive, and the frequently disastrous results of playing QP are what ultimately drove me away from the game.

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    KupiKupi Registered User regular
    I'm pretty confident that the motivation for the Brig changes is that she was an excellent third healer, which is no longer a thing that exists. She has to be worth using in one of two healer spots, which means more healing output and less being a Tank.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    I kinda' wish they'd stated reasons for most of those Brig changes so I could complain about it. And I hate how few details they always give in patch notes. So Repair Pack has 3 charges, now - how often does a charge take to generate? If it's the same as it is currently, it's hardly a buff at all and only really makes Brig's healing slightly stronger in the opening few seconds of a teamfight.

    Edit: but a 30% increase on inspire is actually pretty huge.

    The reason is to turn her into more of a healer and less of a hybrid, because she takes up 1/2 of your support slots now. Substantial buff to healing output (at the cost of some burst), also easier to apply Inspire with the whip, but at the cost of her durability through self-heal and shield.

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Holy fuck it's so much worse than I imagined.

    Skill Tier Before After New Total
    Bronze 65 25 75
    Silver 125 50 150
    Gold 250 100 300
    Platinum 500 200 600
    Diamond 750 300 900
    Master 1200 450 1350
    Grandmaster 1750 650 1950

    So if you want the same SR you earned last season you damn well better be at your main hero's highest SR across all 3 roles!

    Ugh.

    Not sure what you mean, why does total SR matter? That's just an epeen stat.

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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Zek wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Holy fuck it's so much worse than I imagined.

    Skill Tier Before After New Total
    Bronze 65 25 75
    Silver 125 50 150
    Gold 250 100 300
    Platinum 500 200 600
    Diamond 750 300 900
    Master 1200 450 1350
    Grandmaster 1750 650 1950

    So if you want the same SR you earned last season you damn well better be at your main hero's highest SR across all 3 roles!

    Ugh.

    Not sure what you mean, why does total SR matter? That's just an epeen stat.

    Idgaf about total SR, but I do gaf about earning the Gold Gun Monies. I've been playing since launch and I only just got my third in like the last two weeks. Now, basically, if I want to keep earning gold guns at the same (already very slow) rate, I'mma' have to play heroes I haven't had competitive experience with in 2+ years and odds are I'll be in gold and silver with 'em.

    So basically I'm never getting my 500 Gold Gun Points per season again, and on-average I'll get a gold gun on Mei some time in early 2022.

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Holy fuck it's so much worse than I imagined.

    Skill Tier Before After New Total
    Bronze 65 25 75
    Silver 125 50 150
    Gold 250 100 300
    Platinum 500 200 600
    Diamond 750 300 900
    Master 1200 450 1350
    Grandmaster 1750 650 1950

    So if you want the same SR you earned last season you damn well better be at your main hero's highest SR across all 3 roles!

    Ugh.

    Not sure what you mean, why does total SR matter? That's just an epeen stat.

    Idgaf about total SR, but I do gaf about earning the Gold Gun Monies. I've been playing since launch and I only just got my third in like the last two weeks. Now, basically, if I want to keep earning gold guns at the same (already very slow) rate, I'mma' have to play heroes I haven't had competitive experience with in 2+ years and odds are I'll be in gold and silver with 'em.

    So basically I'm never getting my 500 Gold Gun Points per season again, and on-average I'll get a gold gun on Mei some time in early 2022.

    Ah so you mean now you get to triple-dip on points per role type, but each one gives much less? That does seem shitty, is that confirmed? I would expect them to either only consider your highest one, or be more generous with the points.

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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Zek wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Holy fuck it's so much worse than I imagined.

    Skill Tier Before After New Total
    Bronze 65 25 75
    Silver 125 50 150
    Gold 250 100 300
    Platinum 500 200 600
    Diamond 750 300 900
    Master 1200 450 1350
    Grandmaster 1750 650 1950

    So if you want the same SR you earned last season you damn well better be at your main hero's highest SR across all 3 roles!

    Ugh.

    Not sure what you mean, why does total SR matter? That's just an epeen stat.

    Idgaf about total SR, but I do gaf about earning the Gold Gun Monies. I've been playing since launch and I only just got my third in like the last two weeks. Now, basically, if I want to keep earning gold guns at the same (already very slow) rate, I'mma' have to play heroes I haven't had competitive experience with in 2+ years and odds are I'll be in gold and silver with 'em.

    So basically I'm never getting my 500 Gold Gun Points per season again, and on-average I'll get a gold gun on Mei some time in early 2022.

    Ah so you mean now you get to triple-dip on points per role type, but each one gives much less? That does seem shitty, is that confirmed? I would expect them to either only consider your highest one, or be more generous with the points.

    This is confirmed and it's on the official Roll Cue FAQ page Blizz set up.

    Skill Tier / Before / After / New Total (if you're the same rank in all 3 roles)
    Bronze / 65 / 25 / 75
    Silver / 125 / 50 / 150
    Gold / 250 / 100 / 300
    Platinum / 500 / 200 / 600
    Diamond / 750 / 300 / 900
    Master / 1200 / 450 / 1350
    Grandmaster/ 1750 / 650 / 1950

    https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/23060961

    So if you're not already a Flex, either prepare to start flexing every single season or to start getting far fewer comp rewards per season. Yay!

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    I understand your frustration, that is overly punishing, but also, the gold guns look bad

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    Oh I don't like that at all, the reward should just be for your best role

    2x39jD4.jpg
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Holy fuck it's so much worse than I imagined.

    Skill Tier Before After New Total
    Bronze 65 25 75
    Silver 125 50 150
    Gold 250 100 300
    Platinum 500 200 600
    Diamond 750 300 900
    Master 1200 450 1350
    Grandmaster 1750 650 1950

    So if you want the same SR you earned last season you damn well better be at your main hero's highest SR across all 3 roles!

    Ugh.

    Not sure what you mean, why does total SR matter? That's just an epeen stat.

    Idgaf about total SR, but I do gaf about earning the Gold Gun Monies. I've been playing since launch and I only just got my third in like the last two weeks. Now, basically, if I want to keep earning gold guns at the same (already very slow) rate, I'mma' have to play heroes I haven't had competitive experience with in 2+ years and odds are I'll be in gold and silver with 'em.

    So basically I'm never getting my 500 Gold Gun Points per season again, and on-average I'll get a gold gun on Mei some time in early 2022.

    Ah so you mean now you get to triple-dip on points per role type, but each one gives much less? That does seem shitty, is that confirmed? I would expect them to either only consider your highest one, or be more generous with the points.

    This is confirmed and it's on the official Roll Cue FAQ page Blizz set up.
    Skill Tier		/   Before	/ After	/ New Total (if you're the same rank in all 3 roles)
    Bronze     	    	/65	       	/ 25	    /   75
    Silver	    	   	/125	   	 / 50	    /  150
    Gold	       		/ 250		/ 100	    /  300
    Platinum		/ 500	  	/ 200	   	/  600
    Diamond	       		/ 750       	/ 300	 	/  900
    Master	       		/ 1200		/ 450		/ 1350
    Grandmaster		/ 1750		/ 650		/ 1950
    

    https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/23060961

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    Brutal JBrutal J Sorry! Sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Kupi wrote: »
    I'm pretty confident that the motivation for the Brig changes is that she was an excellent third healer, which is no longer a thing that exists. She has to be worth using in one of two healer spots, which means more healing output and less being a Tank.

    Played a game and a little bit in another. She feels real bad now. I got completely blown up by a damn Baptiste who broke my shield in two seconds flat and head shot me. She's a melee character that can't do much at range, isn't actually that threatening damage wise when she gets close, and even getting close is more likely to kill her than not.

    I did underestimate the value of putting 3 repairs on people, meaning +75 armor on 3 people near instantly. That's pretty good.

    But like... I'm just hitting E at people and standing around, only able to do something fun when the enemy is already lost the fight anyway.

    Rally is also extremely bad now. I have no idea why they increased ult rate on every 12% and then Brig further by 10%. Rally is already among the worst support ults, only maybe beating out Valk, and it takes this long to charge? Why. I get Trance 2-3 times faster (cause I can actually fucking damage people), and it's literally the best ult in the game.

    Boogles the mind.

    Brutal J on
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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    edited July 2019
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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    They're trying to encourage people to play other roles once in a while, which I'm fine with, and each role only needs 5 matches for placements, which is a pretty low ask.

    I get that it sucks if you REALLY don't want to play any other role, but it's also a totally inconsequential vanity reward so the "punishment" for not flexing is about as low as it could possibly be. Hard to be too annoyed at that one.

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    I hate competitive points in general and think they should drop them and put gun skins in the loot pool. Like I can't believe they passed up the chance to do that, they're giving gun skins away for free. Plus people should not be playing competitive for the rewards.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I would be fine with Bridget getting shield bash up to 50 again with her current shield setup, so at least she can pester Naruto and Tracer like before. Still keep the barrier cancel.

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I would be fine with Bridget getting shield bash up to 50 again with her current shield setup, so at least she can pester Naruto and Tracer like before. Still keep the barrier cancel.

    I think it's okay for her to be merely decent against Tracer. Tracer is a dive character, and it's not really the job of a support to counter diving. Especially in this new world where Brigitte is something like a primary healer.

    Zek on
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    Brutal JBrutal J Sorry! Sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I would be fine with Bridget getting shield bash up to 50 again with her current shield setup, so at least she can pester Naruto and Tracer like before. Still keep the barrier cancel.

    I think it's okay for her to be merely decent against Tracer. Tracer is a dive character, and it's not really the job of a support to counter diving. Especially in this new world where Brigitte is something like a primary healer.

    Fun fact, Brig has never been able to beat Tracer in a 1v1. Even peak Brig. Tracer can just run circles around her outside of her bash/melee range. The fact she survives the bash now just means that she doesn't even need to worry about getting 1-shot from a mistake.

    The real problem is Brig can't even survive against Monkey or D.Va dives because of how little hp she gets from her own Inspire.

    Her survivablity tanked in exchange for more healing, but that's not useful when she needs to be alive to heal. Also all the best healers do more than just heal.

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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    The bit about Slow values is cool tho. Rein's been needing that for a while.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    Brutal J wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I would be fine with Bridget getting shield bash up to 50 again with her current shield setup, so at least she can pester Naruto and Tracer like before. Still keep the barrier cancel.

    I think it's okay for her to be merely decent against Tracer. Tracer is a dive character, and it's not really the job of a support to counter diving. Especially in this new world where Brigitte is something like a primary healer.

    Fun fact, Brig has never been able to beat Tracer in a 1v1. Even peak Brig. Tracer can just run circles around her outside of her bash/melee range. The fact she survives the bash now just means that she doesn't even need to worry about getting 1-shot from a mistake.

    The real problem is Brig can't even survive against Monkey or D.Va dives because of how little hp she gets from her own Inspire.

    Her survivablity tanked in exchange for more healing, but that's not useful when she needs to be alive to heal. Also all the best healers do more than just heal.

    It does seem like the self-heal penalty is a bit much. They gave her a sidegrade when maybe what she needs is a straight buff since they took away her niche.

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    jammujammu 2020 is now. Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    I've played 4 role-queue games so far.

    It's much better.
    There's lot more teamwork and players know their roles. It's like I'm not in gold anymore!
    No more DPS mains playing solo healer or Rein, because "someone has to".

    You can queue for multiple roles. It just ends up you playing tank :biggrin: (My experience so far, because not enough tank players)

    jammu on
    Ww8FAMg.jpg
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    jammu wrote: »
    I've played 4 role-queue games so far.

    It's much better.
    There's lot more teamwork and players know their roles. It's like I'm not in gold anymore!
    No more DPS mains playing solo healer or Rein, because "someone has to".

    I do feel like there's almost a subconscious factor here that happens when you choose your role up front, and you know the game has given everyone a specific job. Like before the game even loads you've explicitly acknowledged that it's your job to tank for this team. So much of teams winning versus throwing is psychological - the support player is in a bad mood because they had no choice, the DPS are pissed because they're in a 4-1-1 with Roadhog/Brigitte, etc. It helps just to have the perception that the game is giving you a workable team comp, though there will always be people grumpy about one of their DPS being Bastion or something.

    Zek on
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    jammu wrote: »
    I've played 4 role-queue games so far.

    It's much better.
    There's lot more teamwork and players know their roles. It's like I'm not in gold anymore!
    No more DPS mains playing solo healer or Rein, because "someone has to".

    I do feel like there's almost a subconscious factor here that happens when you choose your role up front, and you know the game has given everyone a specific job. Like before the game even loads you've explicitly acknowledged that it's your job to tank for this team. So much of teams winning versus throwing is psychological - the support player is in a bad mood because they had no choice, the DPS are pissed because they're in a 4-1-1 with Roadhog/Brigitte, etc. It helps just to have the perception that the game is giving you a workable team comp, though there will always be people grumpy about one of their DPS being Bastion or something.

    This sounds like a nice theory but when you get Hog/Ball and fuck off DPS Lucio it's just going to be even more annoying when you can't do anything to fix it.

    The huge difference between main/off tank is gonna be an issue.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    jammujammu 2020 is now. Registered User regular
    All and all, those 5 games I've played with role-queue are about same quality as the Scrim games I've played.
    I can't wait for this to come to the main game.

    Ww8FAMg.jpg
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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    jammu wrote: »
    I've played 4 role-queue games so far.

    It's much better.
    There's lot more teamwork and players know their roles. It's like I'm not in gold anymore!
    No more DPS mains playing solo healer or Rein, because "someone has to".

    I do feel like there's almost a subconscious factor here that happens when you choose your role up front, and you know the game has given everyone a specific job. Like before the game even loads you've explicitly acknowledged that it's your job to tank for this team. So much of teams winning versus throwing is psychological - the support player is in a bad mood because they had no choice, the DPS are pissed because they're in a 4-1-1 with Roadhog/Brigitte, etc. It helps just to have the perception that the game is giving you a workable team comp, though there will always be people grumpy about one of their DPS being Bastion or something.

    This sounds like a nice theory but when you get Hog/Ball and fuck off DPS Lucio it's just going to be even more annoying when you can't do anything to fix it.

    The huge difference between main/off tank is gonna be an issue.

    While this is still going to happen in some games, I think overall it's gonna be a massive improvement. For every game where you happen to get the situation you just described, you're going to get nine games where everyone is willing, dare I say eager, to play their role and switch within it when necessary to succeed. Your described situation is going to happen much less often, and ideally the rest of the team playing their preferred roles from the start will help mitigate it better.

    This is ignoring the fact that switching off whatever role you were already playing to cover a teammate who isn't pulling their weight is just as likely to do nothing or even cause more damage if you switch to a role you're not as comfortable with just because it's the "right" play. Like Jeff mentioned on Seagull's stream how he likes to fill, and how he always thought he was a pretty good support so he'd end up playing that a lot...and then the role queue system exposed him as being a way worse support than he thought, and a better DPS. Zek's right - a lot of what happens in a game is due to psychology, and I think this is going to help improve that a ton overall.

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    KamarKamar Registered User regular
    To be fair, people who queue tank but only play offtanks is probably going to be a thing that self-sorts in terms of their tank SR, right?

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Well, enjoyed the game while it lasted.

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    jammu wrote: »
    I've played 4 role-queue games so far.

    It's much better.
    There's lot more teamwork and players know their roles. It's like I'm not in gold anymore!
    No more DPS mains playing solo healer or Rein, because "someone has to".

    I do feel like there's almost a subconscious factor here that happens when you choose your role up front, and you know the game has given everyone a specific job. Like before the game even loads you've explicitly acknowledged that it's your job to tank for this team. So much of teams winning versus throwing is psychological - the support player is in a bad mood because they had no choice, the DPS are pissed because they're in a 4-1-1 with Roadhog/Brigitte, etc. It helps just to have the perception that the game is giving you a workable team comp, though there will always be people grumpy about one of their DPS being Bastion or something.

    This sounds like a nice theory but when you get Hog/Ball and fuck off DPS Lucio it's just going to be even more annoying when you can't do anything to fix it.

    The huge difference between main/off tank is gonna be an issue.

    I mean if you've got two shitty supports, is switching a DPS or tank over to a 3rd support going to help? Maybe, maybe not, but you're probably still fucked. The only solution to bad players is to match them at a low SR. Which theoretically should happen to that DPS Lucio who's queueing support. Higher quality matchmaking means fewer duds on your team if it's all working as designed.

    For sure you'll have games with Widow/Hog/Ball/Brig/Zen. There are still team comps that don't work, and players that don't recognize it or don't care. But even in such games I think 2-2-2 still gives you a better shot than you have in the dregs of QP today. Main tanks aren't super mandatory in most pub games, they only become unassailable if their team is well coordinated and yours isn't.

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    soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    For Chance, a video.

    I'm no Wife, but this was fun. You can see I've started by being way out of position with the group, but I also know soldier and hanzo are about to charge in. I also noticed hanzo do a sonar arrow, so he knows I'm there, and I know they're there. So they charge and I charge and things get a little nuts. This was MH so I used the ult rather than lose it. Never corner a rat.

    https://youtu.be/Nit_cCneyAI

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    madparrotmadparrot Registered User regular
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I want to see how backfill works with this queue, and the joe schmoe who triple queues but gets tank backfill and immediately leaves fucking over that team even more. Because unless they start seriously infracting and punishing the pieces of shit who leave games and fuck over the team that's just going to make the games where it happens just a waste of your time.

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    miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    sleepy needs to update his avatar for the most recent advances in catgirl technology

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    jammujammu 2020 is now. Registered User regular
    Hot dam. Did my placements on PTR:

    0sik4GF.png

    My tank score is realistic placement for me, but hot dam that support score!
    That's higher than I've ever been on live servers and I haven't touched plat since the season 9.

    Ww8FAMg.jpg
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I want to see how backfill works with this queue, and the joe schmoe who triple queues but gets tank backfill and immediately leaves fucking over that team even more. Because unless they start seriously infracting and punishing the pieces of shit who leave games and fuck over the team that's just going to make the games where it happens just a waste of your time.

    Why triple queue if you're gonna refuse to play tank? It will be harder to backfill a tank/support, but the game has more than enough players to make up for it I think. At worst it compromises on skill a bit.

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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    soylenth wrote: »
    For Chance, a video.

    I'm no Wife, but this was fun. You can see I've started by being way out of position with the group, but I also know soldier and hanzo are about to charge in. I also noticed hanzo do a sonar arrow, so he knows I'm there, and I know they're there. So they charge and I charge and things get a little nuts. This was MH so I used the ult rather than lose it. Never corner a rat.

    https://youtu.be/Nit_cCneyAI

    Lol awesome ^.^
    madparrot wrote: »

    I actually made something very similar (scrapped idea, but) a year or so back where I was sneaking up on a Widow (to the Jaws theme) and just like yours I do not succeed. After a long build-up I go for the gank, she instantly whips around and headshots me. The music cuts and becomes a voice over that I actually recorded and put into ShareFactory:

    "Wha-! 'Tis I who was the sexy swimmer. And she the shark from Jaws."

    Ed: omg I still have the voice file. Hang on lemmie see if it'll drop in...

    Nope!

    https://instaud.io/3XT8

    Heheh.

    Edit edit: I know you're the Sombra not the Pharah but still.

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    Kid PresentableKid Presentable Registered User regular
    I'm in mid-Diamond on live servers as high as I've ever been, 3300ish
    just did my tank placements on the PTR, went 4-1,

    and accidentally skipped Master?

    mj3xa98ou63n.png

    these placement games seem much more aggressive with SR than normal ones, I wonder if that's going to carry over to the live version

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Apparently today is Horizon only on QP day.

    Still won't play it, Blizzard, git gud mapz.

This discussion has been closed.