They roll out dependant on your time zone I think. New Zealand preorders are already up, though all of the new units are conspicuously missing. I really hope they don't bump them back another week
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
They roll out dependant on your time zone I think. New Zealand preorders are already up, though all of the new units are conspicuously missing. I really hope they don't bump them back another week
Wasn't this pre order round only the book and the two new Primaris HQs? I don't think they announced any other models getting pre orders yet.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Oof just heard the price for the special edition codex. No thanks. I'll probably splurge for the special edition Ultramarines supplement at 65, but 250 bucks for the codex? No thanks.
With the boni to certain doctrines in the White Scar and ultramarine books, aren't they just flat out better than chapters without their own book?
The 6 founding legions in the regular space marines codex will be getting supplements over the next month or so.
BA/DA/SW are currently SoL on that front. They get the new primaris units and the shock assault rule from this. Nothing else on the rules front (currently).
The books are out of control. I started pirating everything at the beginning of 8th Edition because fuck spending hundreds of dollars on Codexes and Supplements and Campaigns and Expansions that are going to be outdated within six months (and sometimes, like the Space Wolf Codex, obsolete before they even hit store shelves). If you have been buying books to stay current since the beginning of 8th you'd be looking at $60 for a rulebook, $25 for an Index, $40-$50 for a Codex, $100 for both Vigilus books, $35 for Chapter Approved 2017, another $35 for CA 2018, and if you play Marines you're looking at another $40 for the updated Codex as well as an additional $30 if you run one of the chapters that are getting a codex supplement.
I don't know if that makes me a bad person or not, but the money I don't spend on Codexes I just spend on actual models and paints instead, so GW gets my money either way.
I wish they would get cracking on a list building program. I would gladly pay GW money for some sort of Battlescribe like thing where I knew that the rules would be consistently updated and accurate.
Yeah, I'm 100% not a fan of this. They need a digital system that consolidates everything - I just want to be able to check the rules and check my army and be done with it, not have to consult (literally) two dozen books or documents.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Impulsor is 75 points base, without its war gear. So pretty much close to what I thought, right around a Razorback. So its definitely in the right points range to actually be a dedicated transport.
With the boni to certain doctrines in the White Scar and ultramarine books, aren't they just flat out better than chapters without their own book?
The 6 founding legions in the regular space marines codex will be getting supplements over the next month or so.
BA/DA/SW are currently SoL on that front. They get the new primaris units and the shock assault rule from this. Nothing else on the rules front (currently).
DA get an update in WD next month to give them their set of new rules and stratagems I guess.
I was wrong about the impulsor getting autocannons. They're just twin icarus ironhail stubbers. But they're called "icarus skytalon array". It's the exact same weapon. It's on the repulsor executioner. I don't understand who names things anymore.
IT ALSO CANNOT TRANSPORT GRAVIS ARMOUR.
So much for fire aggressors doing anything useful.
McGibs on
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TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
I feel like we're past a point where I'm just going to take marine players word on what rules their units have
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited August 2019
The gravis armor thing saves me the money of needing to buy two Impulsors. Just need the one for my hellblasters + captain now. My Aggressors will just stay in my Roboute castle.
I'm fine with the anti-soup thing provided Operative Sanctioned still lets me bring an assassin. That seems to be the interpretation of /r/WarhammerCompetitive, that because the assassins comes in as the result of stratagem you still get your doctrines, but GW is going to have to FAQ that I'm sure.
I knew about the Doctrine turn thing. I thought they had laid that out in the preview.
I feel like we're past a point where I'm just going to take marine players word on what rules their units have
These seem like good changes but I'm definitely very concerned about rules bloat.
I'll also admit that I'm feeling kind of salty because I'm practically certain that most of my factions won't see boosts like this for years, if ever.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
If Space Wolves get the turn 1 drop pod update I think I might actually use my drop pods again.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited August 2019
Now the argument is on about whether the assassin from ORS breaks Combat Doctrines. I think the more I read the rule, the more I think the current wording does mean the Assassin breaks your doctrines.
That said, I am firmly of the stance that is some hot bullshit and GW needs to FAQ/eratta that. I see the spirit of the anti-soup rule, that space marines armies should have only space marine detachments, but I feel the spirit of ORS is clearly to allow imperium armies to summon in an ally without changing the battle forged composition of their army. So basically every imperium army but space marines would have clear access to ORS. As an SM player I would never use ORS again. Giving up AP across across 75% of my army, plus Scions of Guilliman? You'd have to be drunk or high to think any of the assassins are worth that.
Space Marines still have access to the Assassin strat, but if they use it they don't get another kind of benefit which they exclusively have as a faction. That doesn't seem too ridiculous to me?
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited August 2019
You don’t see how it’s ridiculous to give up a huge part of the primary power spike SM is getting, for almost your entire army, for one unit? A cost no other imperium faction has to pay?
There is no choice here. No thought process to be had. No codex SM player who wasn’t hit in the head before their game will ever use ORS again. 1 AP for 75% of my army, plus full move and double tap, for a single model. A model I’m already paying 2 CP and 85 points for. Not sure how anyone can view that as a choice or fair.
You don’t see how it’s ridiculous to give up a huge part of the primary power spike SM is getting, for almost your entire army, for one unit? A cost no other imperium faction has to pay?
No other Imperium faction has to pay it because no other faction currently has a Combat Doctrine equivalent. Once they do I'll be astounded if they don't also lose it for taking an Assassin, assuming the stratagem isn't FAQed to not break them.
You don’t see how it’s ridiculous to give up a huge part of the primary power spike SM is getting, for almost your entire army, for one unit? A cost no other imperium faction has to pay?
No other Imperium faction has to pay it because no other faction currently has a Combat Doctrine equivalent. Once they do I'll be astounded if they don't also lose it for taking an Assassin, assuming the stratagem isn't FAQed to not break them.
I don't think it breaks them as the assassin is not actually part of the war forged army but is added in the grey area before deployment but after the check for battle forged /what your faction is. But they do need to faq to clarify that.
Part of this is that all of your detachments are space marines which is what would be checked. Assassins are like reinforcement points like daemons in a csm army that are summoned. They don't penalize you for daemons.
Yeah, I'm 100% not a fan of this. They need a digital system that consolidates everything - I just want to be able to check the rules and check my army and be done with it, not have to consult (literally) two dozen books or documents.
Still why don't they do what comic books do have a digital code with the codex.
I know I complain about how I run into questionable programs people want you to use for converting Epub3 so you can get this stuff on a kindle otherwise I would just go digital for my codexes it's far more convenient than the pile of books
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
No guard, the worst soup army in the game, just gets orders and a mountain of CP. No army wide penalty for taking an assassin. Let me know when they lose move, move, move for the privilege of then spending CP and points on a model.
I am a man who loves me some Assault Cannons, so the Devastator Doctrine has me absolutely giddy. I like to run Stormtalons and Assault Cannon Razorbacks and this will bump them to AP-2. This is especially good for Iron Hands vehicles since Machine Empathy is only 1CP and lets a vehicle ignore the movement penalty for firing Heavy weapons for a turn. As an aside, Hellblasters will be hitting at AP-5, which is insane.
Drop Pods being able to come in turn 1 is really great, and should lead to people actually taking Drop Pods for the first time since 8th Edition released, but the problem is that even though Tactical Marines are down to 12ppm base they're still just 1w Tactical Marines in an army that suddenly has a lot of really compelling troop choices. It might be fun to stuff them with chainsword wielding Assault Marines since they'll get an extra attack on the charge now, or maybe a Devastator squad so your opponent has to deal with a bunch of Heavy Bolters in their backline (or a bunch of Multi-Meltas 9" away from their favorite tank).
Chaplains getting Litanies is pretty cool. I take Terminator Chaplains more because the model looks cool as hell than because the model is super useful, but more abilities always helps.
As for Assassins, a Space Marine force with an assassin isn't soup, it's fluffy. Soup is Space Marines with a Loyal 32 or a Rusy 17 that are only there to sit in the back and generate CPs. Fluffy is a lone assassin utilizing the chaos and confusion of an ongoing battle to assassinate a key enemy leader before fading back into the darkness. Certain models (like Assassins, or Inquisitors) aren't really usable as armies by themselves, and now they won't be usable by the majority of 40K players at all.
Still I feel annoyed and question did they really play test it since the eldar got wailed on with the nerf bat and when it comes to ynnari soup you can feel the bruises from an earlier beating
Remind me again how drop pods work, they come down 9 inches away and then do the units disembarking have to stay more than 9 inches away too?
The problem with deep strike is how ridiculous generous the 9 inch buffer is, drop pods weren't taken before the turn 1 deep strike nerf occurred and I don't see a reason that would change now.
Remind me again how drop pods work, they come down 9 inches away and then do the units disembarking have to stay more than 9 inches away too?
The problem with deep strike is how ridiculous generous the 9 inch buffer is, drop pods weren't taken before the turn 1 deep strike nerf occurred and I don't see a reason that would change now.
They come down no closer than 9", and then the models inside immediately disembark. The disembarking models can be no closer to 9" as well.
I have to go back and look at the old FAQ on Drop Pod doors though, because if they still count as part of the model than you can use one to effectively deny your opponent the ability to deepstrike in a fairly huge area, as well as block movement since they wouldn't be able to get within 1" of them. You'd have a T6/W8/3+ roadblock.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Drop pods doors have generally been ignored since their introduction specifically for that reason.
I certainly would be opposed to trying to play it otherwise.
Drop pods doors have generally been ignored since their introduction specifically for that reason.
I certainly would be opposed to trying to play it otherwise.
Of the only drop pod I ever built and half painted {because I don't know if they collect them after the battle is done or they are one and done type of deal} I was going to plan to paint various crusade badges some worn and annealing done to the bottom of it but I stopped because this was when I just gave up on 40k I still have two more in the boxes I got two for my brother for his birthday last year but he like me has a storage issue we need to solve
I built mine so the doors can flip down but other than magnets I didn't know how to make the doors stay up and flick down when I needed [I went down a road of magnetic switches and other strange lands at this time because of youtube and my imagination}
Did aggressors get +1 wound and +1 attack? They may actually be okay troops for some chapters for just moving up the board and trying to get into melee with tanks now?
Cause it's it's right aggressors get 10 power fist hits in melee. That can fuck some stuff up. However that +1 attack I see floating around may be on the charge. If it's not..... Secret new great white scars units?
Drop pods doors have generally been ignored since their introduction specifically for that reason.
I certainly would be opposed to trying to play it otherwise.
So the recent FAQ actually specified how the doors work.
You can either A) place the doors open, at which point they count as part of the model, giving the drop pod a huge footprint. If you do this to pod does not block LOS.
Or B)Keep the doors closed, the pod now blocks LOS, but has a smaller footprint.
So the doors very specifically arent ignored and in fact have rules and a tactical choice to be made.
Did aggressors get +1 wound and +1 attack? They may actually be okay troops for some chapters for just moving up the board and trying to get into melee with tanks now?
Cause it's it's right aggressors get 10 power fist hits in melee. That can fuck some stuff up. However that +1 attack I see floating around may be on the charge. If it's not..... Secret new great white scars units?
Views of the datasheets in the preview videos confirm Gravis units got +1 wound, and Aggressors got +1 attack (so, +2 with stock troops). Makes up for them not getting to ride in the new transport.
Also pairs very nicely with the "wound this infantry unit only on 4+" strat for a big block of them in cover.
The thing I'm REALLY not looking forward to is Leviathan dreads chucking out 20x AP-3 stormcannon shots on turn one, and popping the "Dreadnought takes half damage for the phase" strat for 1cp. Those things are going to be impossible to kill, and I already have enough trouble with them at tournaments.
White Scars look fun as hell. Their psychic powers are fantastic. Yes I will take a power that makes me charge +2" and when I complete a charge my units do mortal wounds on a 6+. Or if you run I cut you down. That is so cool.
Just if they weren't you know white. Worst color to paint.
Also their speeders are good. It would be a ton of fun to make a fast bike/speeder/flying tank army you would rock. And the new doctrines would be awesome.
I am now cranky about my limited choices as Chaos.
Not super cranky. I have Lord Discordants and Masters of Execution. Both of which are amazing.*
*Until they are nerfed to nothing in CA because 160 points for LD is crazy good.
Drop pods doors have generally been ignored since their introduction specifically for that reason.
I certainly would be opposed to trying to play it otherwise.
So the recent FAQ actually specified how the doors work.
You can either A) place the doors open, at which point they count as part of the model, giving the drop pod a huge footprint. If you do this to pod does not block LOS.
Or B)Keep the doors closed, the pod now blocks LOS, but has a smaller footprint.
So the doors very specifically arent ignored and in fact have rules and a tactical choice to be made.
I'm inclined to say, 'fuck that noise,' and ask my opponent if they want to play the normal way, but that's based on when drop pods were ubiquitous in pre-8th edition. as opposed to now when they're a little less common to see than chicken teeth.
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Wasn't this pre order round only the book and the two new Primaris HQs? I don't think they announced any other models getting pre orders yet.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
The 6 founding legions in the regular space marines codex will be getting supplements over the next month or so.
BA/DA/SW are currently SoL on that front. They get the new primaris units and the shock assault rule from this. Nothing else on the rules front (currently).
I don't know if that makes me a bad person or not, but the money I don't spend on Codexes I just spend on actual models and paints instead, so GW gets my money either way.
I wish they would get cracking on a list building program. I would gladly pay GW money for some sort of Battlescribe like thing where I knew that the rules would be consistently updated and accurate.
Yeah, I'm 100% not a fan of this. They need a digital system that consolidates everything - I just want to be able to check the rules and check my army and be done with it, not have to consult (literally) two dozen books or documents.
That said, I'd probably be in to a subscription service where you could access all the rules material, fully updated with errata, FAQ's and rules.
DA get an update in WD next month to give them their set of new rules and stratagems I guess.
It doesn't work with soup at all. Rapid fire doctrine is earliest turn 2, assault is turn 3.
Table Top Tactics has the game up. There is so much they are doing a vox cast later.
Also drop pods work turn 1 now. I am happy because it was always something I wanted to use with my deathwatch.
IT ALSO CANNOT TRANSPORT GRAVIS ARMOUR.
So much for fire aggressors doing anything useful.
I'm fine with the anti-soup thing provided Operative Sanctioned still lets me bring an assassin. That seems to be the interpretation of /r/WarhammerCompetitive, that because the assassins comes in as the result of stratagem you still get your doctrines, but GW is going to have to FAQ that I'm sure.
I knew about the Doctrine turn thing. I thought they had laid that out in the preview.
Rather have my DA ones I also get the +1 to my roll from my little dudes.
Edit: Tacs went down a point a model each. They are 12 points. Okay now I am really annoyed that my CSM cost more.
These seem like good changes but I'm definitely very concerned about rules bloat.
I'll also admit that I'm feeling kind of salty because I'm practically certain that most of my factions won't see boosts like this for years, if ever.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
That said, I am firmly of the stance that is some hot bullshit and GW needs to FAQ/eratta that. I see the spirit of the anti-soup rule, that space marines armies should have only space marine detachments, but I feel the spirit of ORS is clearly to allow imperium armies to summon in an ally without changing the battle forged composition of their army. So basically every imperium army but space marines would have clear access to ORS. As an SM player I would never use ORS again. Giving up AP across across 75% of my army, plus Scions of Guilliman? You'd have to be drunk or high to think any of the assassins are worth that.
There is no choice here. No thought process to be had. No codex SM player who wasn’t hit in the head before their game will ever use ORS again. 1 AP for 75% of my army, plus full move and double tap, for a single model. A model I’m already paying 2 CP and 85 points for. Not sure how anyone can view that as a choice or fair.
No other Imperium faction has to pay it because no other faction currently has a Combat Doctrine equivalent. Once they do I'll be astounded if they don't also lose it for taking an Assassin, assuming the stratagem isn't FAQed to not break them.
I don't think it breaks them as the assassin is not actually part of the war forged army but is added in the grey area before deployment but after the check for battle forged /what your faction is. But they do need to faq to clarify that.
Part of this is that all of your detachments are space marines which is what would be checked. Assassins are like reinforcement points like daemons in a csm army that are summoned. They don't penalize you for daemons.
Still why don't they do what comic books do have a digital code with the codex.
I know I complain about how I run into questionable programs people want you to use for converting Epub3 so you can get this stuff on a kindle otherwise I would just go digital for my codexes it's far more convenient than the pile of books
Drop Pods being able to come in turn 1 is really great, and should lead to people actually taking Drop Pods for the first time since 8th Edition released, but the problem is that even though Tactical Marines are down to 12ppm base they're still just 1w Tactical Marines in an army that suddenly has a lot of really compelling troop choices. It might be fun to stuff them with chainsword wielding Assault Marines since they'll get an extra attack on the charge now, or maybe a Devastator squad so your opponent has to deal with a bunch of Heavy Bolters in their backline (or a bunch of Multi-Meltas 9" away from their favorite tank).
Chaplains getting Litanies is pretty cool. I take Terminator Chaplains more because the model looks cool as hell than because the model is super useful, but more abilities always helps.
As for Assassins, a Space Marine force with an assassin isn't soup, it's fluffy. Soup is Space Marines with a Loyal 32 or a Rusy 17 that are only there to sit in the back and generate CPs. Fluffy is a lone assassin utilizing the chaos and confusion of an ongoing battle to assassinate a key enemy leader before fading back into the darkness. Certain models (like Assassins, or Inquisitors) aren't really usable as armies by themselves, and now they won't be usable by the majority of 40K players at all.
The problem with deep strike is how ridiculous generous the 9 inch buffer is, drop pods weren't taken before the turn 1 deep strike nerf occurred and I don't see a reason that would change now.
They come down no closer than 9", and then the models inside immediately disembark. The disembarking models can be no closer to 9" as well.
I have to go back and look at the old FAQ on Drop Pod doors though, because if they still count as part of the model than you can use one to effectively deny your opponent the ability to deepstrike in a fairly huge area, as well as block movement since they wouldn't be able to get within 1" of them. You'd have a T6/W8/3+ roadblock.
I certainly would be opposed to trying to play it otherwise.
Of the only drop pod I ever built and half painted {because I don't know if they collect them after the battle is done or they are one and done type of deal} I was going to plan to paint various crusade badges some worn and annealing done to the bottom of it but I stopped because this was when I just gave up on 40k I still have two more in the boxes I got two for my brother for his birthday last year but he like me has a storage issue we need to solve
I built mine so the doors can flip down but other than magnets I didn't know how to make the doors stay up and flick down when I needed [I went down a road of magnetic switches and other strange lands at this time because of youtube and my imagination}
Cause it's it's right aggressors get 10 power fist hits in melee. That can fuck some stuff up. However that +1 attack I see floating around may be on the charge. If it's not..... Secret new great white scars units?
So the recent FAQ actually specified how the doors work.
You can either A) place the doors open, at which point they count as part of the model, giving the drop pod a huge footprint. If you do this to pod does not block LOS.
Or B)Keep the doors closed, the pod now blocks LOS, but has a smaller footprint.
So the doors very specifically arent ignored and in fact have rules and a tactical choice to be made.
Views of the datasheets in the preview videos confirm Gravis units got +1 wound, and Aggressors got +1 attack (so, +2 with stock troops). Makes up for them not getting to ride in the new transport.
Also pairs very nicely with the "wound this infantry unit only on 4+" strat for a big block of them in cover.
The thing I'm REALLY not looking forward to is Leviathan dreads chucking out 20x AP-3 stormcannon shots on turn one, and popping the "Dreadnought takes half damage for the phase" strat for 1cp. Those things are going to be impossible to kill, and I already have enough trouble with them at tournaments.
White Scars look fun as hell. Their psychic powers are fantastic. Yes I will take a power that makes me charge +2" and when I complete a charge my units do mortal wounds on a 6+. Or if you run I cut you down. That is so cool.
Just if they weren't you know white. Worst color to paint.
Also their speeders are good. It would be a ton of fun to make a fast bike/speeder/flying tank army you would rock. And the new doctrines would be awesome.
I am now cranky about my limited choices as Chaos.
Not super cranky. I have Lord Discordants and Masters of Execution. Both of which are amazing.*
*Until they are nerfed to nothing in CA because 160 points for LD is crazy good.
Also the stealth dreadnought will be up for pre order. If I still have a job I'm gonna get that dreadnought.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I'm inclined to say, 'fuck that noise,' and ask my opponent if they want to play the normal way, but that's based on when drop pods were ubiquitous in pre-8th edition. as opposed to now when they're a little less common to see than chicken teeth.