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Convicted Pedophile Jeffrey Epstein Commits Suicide, WTF Feds

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  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    If a prisoner is facing years of solitary confinement, a form of torture, I think you could argue it would be morally wrong to prevent that person from killing themselves, if they wanted to...

    (Alternatively, maybe we could stop torturing people.)

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    There was no way for us to house Epstein any other way but by himself. Due to his wealth, status, the nature of his crimes, and the people he was connected to, putting him in Gen Pop (or even Admin Seg) would have been a surefire death sentence. Given the fact that he realized his wealth no longer protected him from justice, the taking of his own life was likely inevitable: he knew what was in store for him, down the line.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    But Epstein was not housed alone - supposedly his first suicide attempt failed because his cell mate found him. He was supposed to have a cell mate for that very reason.

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  • FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    And yet, he did not.

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  • MimMim I don’t do cocaine, I just like how it smells Registered User regular
    I don't know how legit the Washington Examiner is but this I found troubling:

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/one-of-epsteins-guards-was-not-a-corrections-officer
    The Associated Press reports one of the two people who were on duty at the jail and in charge of watching Epstein was not a correctional officer. With shortages of trained correctional officers in some federal prisons, they have resorted to using clerical workers and teachers.

    So basically anyone could've watched Epstein. This is heading towards conspiracy levels again.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    I don't know how legit the Washington Examiner is but this I found troubling:

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/one-of-epsteins-guards-was-not-a-corrections-officer
    The Associated Press reports one of the two people who were on duty at the jail and in charge of watching Epstein was not a correctional officer. With shortages of trained correctional officers in some federal prisons, they have resorted to using clerical workers and teachers.

    So basically anyone could've watched Epstein. This is heading towards conspiracy levels again.

    The Washington Examiner is bottom feeder conservative rag, where you go when Fox News and The Washington Times aren't conservative enough anymore.

    The fact that Google News brings it up frequently in my feed, more so than the other conservative source, is a constant source of "Hmmm? What's going on here?" feelings.

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  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    I hope someone is working on a big story about the MCC prison right now, because I have lots of questions about it. When was their last suicide? How often do they have prisoners commit suicide or self harm? Who are the people in charge, what are their backgrounds, what discipline are they facing? Same for the guards.

    If you really want to diffuse the conspiracy talk, this is the kind of stuff we need. I have a feeling that a lot of those answers will support the conspiracy talk rather than diffuse it though.

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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    If it takes goddamned Epstein to start a conversation about prison reform, so be it

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    If it takes goddamned Epstein to start a conversation about prison reform, so be it

    I don't think it's likely to, because everyone who isn't kinda tinfoil-hatty (mea culpa!) is like "glad the monster is dead."

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Because preventing suicide in a correctional facility is a lot harder than we'd like to think.

    Yes, they certainly tried their best to save him! Nothing could have been done!

    Oh wait, no, they broke protocol to allow him to be alone all night with materials to hang himself.

    If this is their best effort I'm surprised El Chapo didn't escape in a giant cake.

    The current story is that it was a result of institutional dysfunction and negligence. Do you think this is implausible? I don't. I think it would be pretty convenient for some powerful people, certainly.

    Again, it's also not implausible that his death was caused, arranged or permitted. Conspiracies do happen, and this is already a bizarre, sensational conspiracy story with international tendrils.

    It also maybe very easy if there was some wealthy person who wanted to let epstein off himself would be to pay off some massively overworked guards to just not try very hard to pay attention. Not even asking them to do anything to epstein but hey I will put your kids through college and you won't have to worry about money if you just do the bare minimum of your job for a few nights. That level of dysfunction is a pretty easy lever to exploit if you have enough money.

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    The simplest explanation is still that the guy with nothing to live for, who just got off of suicide watch, genuinely wanted to kill himself.

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  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited August 13
    Shrieking heard from Epstein's cell the morning of his death

    Article is sort of unclear on who was shrieking

    Kaputa on
  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Wait

    Shrieking from Epstein? Or the guards?

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Shrieking heard from Epstein's cell the morning of his death

    Article is sort of unclear on who was shrieking

    Well he was alone so probably him

  • Drake ChambersDrake Chambers Lay out my formal shorts. Registered User regular
    It's a bullshit click-bait article that adds nothing. The headline is supported by a handful of sentences that amount to "A source says there was shouting and shrieking." That's it.

    Don't support it with a click.

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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    Because preventing suicide in a correctional facility is a lot harder than we'd like to think.

    Yes, they certainly tried their best to save him! Nothing could have been done!

    Oh wait, no, they broke protocol to allow him to be alone all night with materials to hang himself.

    If this is their best effort I'm surprised El Chapo didn't escape in a giant cake.

    The current story is that it was a result of institutional dysfunction and negligence. Do you think this is implausible? I don't. I think it would be pretty convenient for some powerful people, certainly.

    Again, it's also not implausible that his death was caused, arranged or permitted. Conspiracies do happen, and this is already a bizarre, sensational conspiracy story with international tendrils.

    It also maybe very easy if there was some wealthy person who wanted to let epstein off himself would be to pay off some massively overworked guards to just not try very hard to pay attention. Not even asking them to do anything to epstein but hey I will put your kids through college and you won't have to worry about money if you just do the bare minimum of your job for a few nights. That level of dysfunction is a pretty easy lever to exploit if you have enough money.

    Shit, just talk to a supervisor, he would put Epstein alone, assign the inexperienced staffer and then give so much to do that he couldn't keep watch if he wanted too.

    Why pay of multiple guys when you can get away with one?

    You don't even have to that. Just have a talk with the Warden about how there are people on both sides of the political divide that Just Wants This Epstein Problem To Go Away. If he has a political bone in his body, he will move heaven and Earth to make it so. I mean "Won't someone rid me of this turbulent priest" is a famous expression for a reason and is way to blunt for today's society. It would be all "Concerned" and "Troubled" by the attention Epstein was getting.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    This paper gets the prize for horrific irresponsibility:

    https://nypost.com/cover/covers-for-tuesday-august-13-2019/

    (NY Post describes on front page Epstein's exact method of suicide, which is a real no-no due to risk of copycats)

    GnizmoGvzbgul
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    how do you die from both of those?

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    Prison guard or admin that happens to be a chamber, most likely.

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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    I mean, its possible that someone working at the center is a 4chan denizen?

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    To me it sounds like someone eavesdropping on the emergency services.

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  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    I mean, its possible that someone working at the center is a 4chan denizen?

    It takes time to write news articles, its possible it was just a random person working at ABC while the news was breaking.

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  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    I mean, its possible that someone working at the center is a 4chan denizen?

    It takes time to write news articles, its possible it was just a random person working at ABC while the news was breaking.

    Plus while I don't want to sound defensive of the press, it's more important that they're correct about reporting his death than it is to be the first to report his death.

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  • Drake ChambersDrake Chambers Lay out my formal shorts. Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    I mean, its possible that someone working at the center is a 4chan denizen?

    It takes time to write news articles, its possible it was just a random person working at ABC while the news was breaking.

    Plus while I don't want to sound defensive of the press, it's more important that they're correct about reporting his death than it is to be the first to report his death.

    Particularly important point to make on the same page with CBS's "Screams Heard!" news story. All too often now even major outlets are just rushing to be the first to report on something before determining whether or not it's true and/or even worth reporting on.

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    how do you die from both of those?

    I forget the terms they use in the context, but cardiac arrest is often noted as the ultimate, technical cause of death, while blood loss, asphyxiation, etc are noted as what brought it about.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    how do you die from both of those?

    I forget the terms they use in the context, but cardiac arrest is often noted as the ultimate, technical cause of death, while blood loss, asphyxiation, etc are noted as what brought it about.

    aahhhh

    the splitting hairs / rules lawyering mortician!

  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    how do you die from both of those?

    I forget the terms they use in the context, but cardiac arrest is often noted as the ultimate, technical cause of death, while blood loss, asphyxiation, etc are noted as what brought it about.

    It’s more than just the cause of death

    In clinical terms, cardiac arrest and death are synonyms

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    how do you die from both of those?

    IIRC "Cardiac Arrest" is used pretty much whenever someone dies from any non-illness that wasn't traumatic brain injury.

    I believe it's just the fancy way of saying "and then his heart stopped." But someone in medicine can correct me if I'm wrong.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    how do you die from both of those?

    IIRC "Cardiac Arrest" is used pretty much whenever someone dies from any non-illness that wasn't traumatic brain injury.

    I believe it's just the fancy way of saying "and then his heart stopped." But someone in medicine can correct me if I'm wrong.

    There's the obvious case of someone dying because their heart was physically removed or otherwise rendered significantly non-heartlike. I'm guessing that doesn't fall under cardiac arrest?

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    how do you die from both of those?

    IIRC "Cardiac Arrest" is used pretty much whenever someone dies from any non-illness that wasn't traumatic brain injury.

    I believe it's just the fancy way of saying "and then his heart stopped." But someone in medicine can correct me if I'm wrong.

    There's the obvious case of someone dying because their heart was physically removed or otherwise rendered significantly non-heartlike. I'm guessing that doesn't fall under cardiac arrest?

    I was pulled away before posting, so I didn't see the many posts already giving a more accurate explanation than I could.

    steam_sig.png
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Apparently 4chan found out about the suicide before the press did:
    “[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.

    That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.

    One, Wart is not Pepe.

    Two, how the heck does this happen?

    Wart is Pepe when his sprite is edited to be Pepe. They changed the eyes and added the lips to the mouth.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    An opinion piece on the hard truth that Epstein's suicide has made justice unlikely for his co-conspiritors.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/opinion/jeffrey-epstein-death.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

    I do despise Ghislaine Maxwell, who seems almost certain to get away with it now. And she seems to have gone into hiding. The press cannot find her. I'd like to think that her passport is on lockdown, but I think we all fucking know that the authorities don't care all that much about seeing justice in this case, and if she were to take a 30 year vacation in a chic apartment in Moscow, that would be ideal for them.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    I think whether or not some of these shitbags get escape justice is going to come down to how good a notetaker Epstein was and whether or not he was going to blackmail them or felt like having material to blackmail just in case. Feds pretty much have free reign to go through is stuff at this point IIRC.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    I think whether or not some of these shitbags get escape justice is going to come down to how good a notetaker Epstein was and whether or not he was going to blackmail them or felt like having material to blackmail just in case. Feds pretty much have free reign to go through is stuff at this point IIRC.

    I'm surprised that he didn't have anything geared to release on his death or incarceration. Is that harder to set up than it sounds, or did he just think he was untouchable?

    Doodmann
  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    I think whether or not some of these shitbags get escape justice is going to come down to how good a notetaker Epstein was and whether or not he was going to blackmail them or felt like having material to blackmail just in case. Feds pretty much have free reign to go through is stuff at this point IIRC.

    I'm surprised that he didn't have anything geared to release on his death or incarceration. Is that harder to set up than it sounds, or did he just think he was untouchable?

    You can basically just leave a sealed letter with a lawyer for them to open in the event of your death. Call it funeral instructions or something, and it's not even suspicious. In the event of incarceration can be done by leaving your blackmail material in your safe. Be sure to helpfully label it so they'll be sure to find it.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-jail-officers.html
    The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself fell asleep and failed to check on him for about three hours, then falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials with knowledge of the matter.
    This is honestly not surprising given the state of prisons.

    Edit: Basically, it is going to be depressing telling conspiracy theorists that the only thing abnormal about all this is the prison forgot they needed to actually follow the rules when a ton of eyes are on them but they are incompetent so even that is kind of expected.

    Couscous on
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    PreacherElvenshaeRhesus PositiveMan in the Mists
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    A lot of the protection against prisoners escaping prison is that you will make things worse for yourself and being caught afterwards is almost guaranteed. Even if you are going to be in prison for life, you can absolutely make things even worse for yourself.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-jail-officers.html
    The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself fell asleep and failed to check on him for about three hours, then falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials with knowledge of the matter.
    This is honestly not surprising given the state of prisons.

    Edit: Basically, it is going to be depressing telling conspiracy theorists that the only thing abnormal about all this is the prison forgot they needed to actually follow the rules when a ton of eyes are on them but they are incompetent so even that is kind of expected.

    At this point my main question is about how common suicide is (statistically) at these facilities because given the security around Epstein it basically seems like they aren't even trying to stop people from killing themselves and so if this wasn't unusual we should have some numbers on that.

    PreacherThawmusMartini_PhilosopherFencingsaxGnome-InterruptusVeagleElldrenMoridin889Man in the Mists
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