If a prisoner is facing years of solitary confinement, a form of torture, I think you could argue it would be morally wrong to prevent that person from killing themselves, if they wanted to...
(Alternatively, maybe we could stop torturing people.)
HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
There was no way for us to house Epstein any other way but by himself. Due to his wealth, status, the nature of his crimes, and the people he was connected to, putting him in Gen Pop (or even Admin Seg) would have been a surefire death sentence. Given the fact that he realized his wealth no longer protected him from justice, the taking of his own life was likely inevitable: he knew what was in store for him, down the line.
But Epstein was not housed alone - supposedly his first suicide attempt failed because his cell mate found him. He was supposed to have a cell mate for that very reason.
The Associated Press reports one of the two people who were on duty at the jail and in charge of watching Epstein was not a correctional officer. With shortages of trained correctional officers in some federal prisons, they have resorted to using clerical workers and teachers.
So basically anyone could've watched Epstein. This is heading towards conspiracy levels again.
The Associated Press reports one of the two people who were on duty at the jail and in charge of watching Epstein was not a correctional officer. With shortages of trained correctional officers in some federal prisons, they have resorted to using clerical workers and teachers.
So basically anyone could've watched Epstein. This is heading towards conspiracy levels again.
The Washington Examiner is bottom feeder conservative rag, where you go when Fox News and The Washington Times aren't conservative enough anymore.
The fact that Google News brings it up frequently in my feed, more so than the other conservative source, is a constant source of "Hmmm? What's going on here?" feelings.
I hope someone is working on a big story about the MCC prison right now, because I have lots of questions about it. When was their last suicide? How often do they have prisoners commit suicide or self harm? Who are the people in charge, what are their backgrounds, what discipline are they facing? Same for the guards.
If you really want to diffuse the conspiracy talk, this is the kind of stuff we need. I have a feeling that a lot of those answers will support the conspiracy talk rather than diffuse it though.
Because preventing suicide in a correctional facility is a lot harder than we'd like to think.
Yes, they certainly tried their best to save him! Nothing could have been done!
Oh wait, no, they broke protocol to allow him to be alone all night with materials to hang himself.
If this is their best effort I'm surprised El Chapo didn't escape in a giant cake.
The current story is that it was a result of institutional dysfunction and negligence. Do you think this is implausible? I don't. I think it would be pretty convenient for some powerful people, certainly.
Again, it's also not implausible that his death was caused, arranged or permitted. Conspiracies do happen, and this is already a bizarre, sensational conspiracy story with international tendrils.
It also maybe very easy if there was some wealthy person who wanted to let epstein off himself would be to pay off some massively overworked guards to just not try very hard to pay attention. Not even asking them to do anything to epstein but hey I will put your kids through college and you won't have to worry about money if you just do the bare minimum of your job for a few nights. That level of dysfunction is a pretty easy lever to exploit if you have enough money.
Drake ChambersLay out my formal shorts.Registered Userregular
It's a bullshit click-bait article that adds nothing. The headline is supported by a handful of sentences that amount to "A source says there was shouting and shrieking." That's it.
Because preventing suicide in a correctional facility is a lot harder than we'd like to think.
Yes, they certainly tried their best to save him! Nothing could have been done!
Oh wait, no, they broke protocol to allow him to be alone all night with materials to hang himself.
If this is their best effort I'm surprised El Chapo didn't escape in a giant cake.
The current story is that it was a result of institutional dysfunction and negligence. Do you think this is implausible? I don't. I think it would be pretty convenient for some powerful people, certainly.
Again, it's also not implausible that his death was caused, arranged or permitted. Conspiracies do happen, and this is already a bizarre, sensational conspiracy story with international tendrils.
It also maybe very easy if there was some wealthy person who wanted to let epstein off himself would be to pay off some massively overworked guards to just not try very hard to pay attention. Not even asking them to do anything to epstein but hey I will put your kids through college and you won't have to worry about money if you just do the bare minimum of your job for a few nights. That level of dysfunction is a pretty easy lever to exploit if you have enough money.
Shit, just talk to a supervisor, he would put Epstein alone, assign the inexperienced staffer and then give so much to do that he couldn't keep watch if he wanted too.
Why pay of multiple guys when you can get away with one?
You don't even have to that. Just have a talk with the Warden about how there are people on both sides of the political divide that Just Wants This Epstein Problem To Go Away. If he has a political bone in his body, he will move heaven and Earth to make it so. I mean "Won't someone rid me of this turbulent priest" is a famous expression for a reason and is way to blunt for today's society. It would be all "Concerned" and "Troubled" by the attention Epstein was getting.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
Prison guard or admin that happens to be a chamber, most likely.
+27
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
I mean, its possible that someone working at the center is a 4chan denizen?
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
I mean, its possible that someone working at the center is a 4chan denizen?
It takes time to write news articles, its possible it was just a random person working at ABC while the news was breaking.
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
I mean, its possible that someone working at the center is a 4chan denizen?
It takes time to write news articles, its possible it was just a random person working at ABC while the news was breaking.
Plus while I don't want to sound defensive of the press, it's more important that they're correct about reporting his death than it is to be the first to report his death.
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
I mean, its possible that someone working at the center is a 4chan denizen?
It takes time to write news articles, its possible it was just a random person working at ABC while the news was breaking.
Plus while I don't want to sound defensive of the press, it's more important that they're correct about reporting his death than it is to be the first to report his death.
Particularly important point to make on the same page with CBS's "Screams Heard!" news story. All too often now even major outlets are just rushing to be the first to report on something before determining whether or not it's true and/or even worth reporting on.
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
how do you die from both of those?
I forget the terms they use in the context, but cardiac arrest is often noted as the ultimate, technical cause of death, while blood loss, asphyxiation, etc are noted as what brought it about.
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
how do you die from both of those?
I forget the terms they use in the context, but cardiac arrest is often noted as the ultimate, technical cause of death, while blood loss, asphyxiation, etc are noted as what brought it about.
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
how do you die from both of those?
I forget the terms they use in the context, but cardiac arrest is often noted as the ultimate, technical cause of death, while blood loss, asphyxiation, etc are noted as what brought it about.
It’s more than just the cause of death
In clinical terms, cardiac arrest and death are synonyms
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
how do you die from both of those?
IIRC "Cardiac Arrest" is used pretty much whenever someone dies from any non-illness that wasn't traumatic brain injury.
I believe it's just the fancy way of saying "and then his heart stopped." But someone in medicine can correct me if I'm wrong.
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
how do you die from both of those?
IIRC "Cardiac Arrest" is used pretty much whenever someone dies from any non-illness that wasn't traumatic brain injury.
I believe it's just the fancy way of saying "and then his heart stopped." But someone in medicine can correct me if I'm wrong.
There's the obvious case of someone dying because their heart was physically removed or otherwise rendered significantly non-heartlike. I'm guessing that doesn't fall under cardiac arrest?
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
how do you die from both of those?
IIRC "Cardiac Arrest" is used pretty much whenever someone dies from any non-illness that wasn't traumatic brain injury.
I believe it's just the fancy way of saying "and then his heart stopped." But someone in medicine can correct me if I'm wrong.
There's the obvious case of someone dying because their heart was physically removed or otherwise rendered significantly non-heartlike. I'm guessing that doesn't fall under cardiac arrest?
I was pulled away before posting, so I didn't see the many posts already giving a more accurate explanation than I could.
“[D]ont ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this,” read the post, which was published at 8:16 AM alongside an image of Pepe, the green frog that has become a mascot for the right-wing internet trolls.
That post was 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein’s death from Aaron Katersky, an ABC News reporter, at 8:54 AM. Five minutes later, the main ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death.
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
Wart is Pepe when his sprite is edited to be Pepe. They changed the eyes and added the lips to the mouth.
I do despise Ghislaine Maxwell, who seems almost certain to get away with it now. And she seems to have gone into hiding. The press cannot find her. I'd like to think that her passport is on lockdown, but I think we all fucking know that the authorities don't care all that much about seeing justice in this case, and if she were to take a 30 year vacation in a chic apartment in Moscow, that would be ideal for them.
I think whether or not some of these shitbags get escape justice is going to come down to how good a notetaker Epstein was and whether or not he was going to blackmail them or felt like having material to blackmail just in case. Feds pretty much have free reign to go through is stuff at this point IIRC.
I think whether or not some of these shitbags get escape justice is going to come down to how good a notetaker Epstein was and whether or not he was going to blackmail them or felt like having material to blackmail just in case. Feds pretty much have free reign to go through is stuff at this point IIRC.
I'm surprised that he didn't have anything geared to release on his death or incarceration. Is that harder to set up than it sounds, or did he just think he was untouchable?
I think whether or not some of these shitbags get escape justice is going to come down to how good a notetaker Epstein was and whether or not he was going to blackmail them or felt like having material to blackmail just in case. Feds pretty much have free reign to go through is stuff at this point IIRC.
I'm surprised that he didn't have anything geared to release on his death or incarceration. Is that harder to set up than it sounds, or did he just think he was untouchable?
You can basically just leave a sealed letter with a lawyer for them to open in the event of your death. Call it funeral instructions or something, and it's not even suspicious. In the event of incarceration can be done by leaving your blackmail material in your safe. Be sure to helpfully label it so they'll be sure to find it.
The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself fell asleep and failed to check on him for about three hours, then falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials with knowledge of the matter.
This is honestly not surprising given the state of prisons.
Edit: Basically, it is going to be depressing telling conspiracy theorists that the only thing abnormal about all this is the prison forgot they needed to actually follow the rules when a ton of eyes are on them but they are incompetent so even that is kind of expected.
A lot of the protection against prisoners escaping prison is that you will make things worse for yourself and being caught afterwards is almost guaranteed. Even if you are going to be in prison for life, you can absolutely make things even worse for yourself.
The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself fell asleep and failed to check on him for about three hours, then falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials with knowledge of the matter.
This is honestly not surprising given the state of prisons.
Edit: Basically, it is going to be depressing telling conspiracy theorists that the only thing abnormal about all this is the prison forgot they needed to actually follow the rules when a ton of eyes are on them but they are incompetent so even that is kind of expected.
At this point my main question is about how common suicide is (statistically) at these facilities because given the security around Epstein it basically seems like they aren't even trying to stop people from killing themselves and so if this wasn't unusual we should have some numbers on that.
Posts
(Alternatively, maybe we could stop torturing people.)
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/one-of-epsteins-guards-was-not-a-corrections-officer
So basically anyone could've watched Epstein. This is heading towards conspiracy levels again.
The Washington Examiner is bottom feeder conservative rag, where you go when Fox News and The Washington Times aren't conservative enough anymore.
The fact that Google News brings it up frequently in my feed, more so than the other conservative source, is a constant source of "Hmmm? What's going on here?" feelings.
If you really want to diffuse the conspiracy talk, this is the kind of stuff we need. I have a feeling that a lot of those answers will support the conspiracy talk rather than diffuse it though.
I don't think it's likely to, because everyone who isn't kinda tinfoil-hatty (mea culpa!) is like "glad the monster is dead."
It also maybe very easy if there was some wealthy person who wanted to let epstein off himself would be to pay off some massively overworked guards to just not try very hard to pay attention. Not even asking them to do anything to epstein but hey I will put your kids through college and you won't have to worry about money if you just do the bare minimum of your job for a few nights. That level of dysfunction is a pretty easy lever to exploit if you have enough money.
Article is sort of unclear on who was shrieking
Shrieking from Epstein? Or the guards?
Well he was alone so probably him
Don't support it with a click.
Shit, just talk to a supervisor, he would put Epstein alone, assign the inexperienced staffer and then give so much to do that he couldn't keep watch if he wanted too.
Why pay of multiple guys when you can get away with one?
You don't even have to that. Just have a talk with the Warden about how there are people on both sides of the political divide that Just Wants This Epstein Problem To Go Away. If he has a political bone in his body, he will move heaven and Earth to make it so. I mean "Won't someone rid me of this turbulent priest" is a famous expression for a reason and is way to blunt for today's society. It would be all "Concerned" and "Troubled" by the attention Epstein was getting.
https://nypost.com/cover/covers-for-tuesday-august-13-2019/
(NY Post describes on front page Epstein's exact method of suicide, which is a real no-no due to risk of copycats)
One, Wart is not Pepe.
Two, how the heck does this happen?
how do you die from both of those?
Prison guard or admin that happens to be a chamber, most likely.
I mean, its possible that someone working at the center is a 4chan denizen?
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
It takes time to write news articles, its possible it was just a random person working at ABC while the news was breaking.
Plus while I don't want to sound defensive of the press, it's more important that they're correct about reporting his death than it is to be the first to report his death.
Particularly important point to make on the same page with CBS's "Screams Heard!" news story. All too often now even major outlets are just rushing to be the first to report on something before determining whether or not it's true and/or even worth reporting on.
I forget the terms they use in the context, but cardiac arrest is often noted as the ultimate, technical cause of death, while blood loss, asphyxiation, etc are noted as what brought it about.
aahhhh
the splitting hairs / rules lawyering mortician!
It’s more than just the cause of death
In clinical terms, cardiac arrest and death are synonyms
IIRC "Cardiac Arrest" is used pretty much whenever someone dies from any non-illness that wasn't traumatic brain injury.
I believe it's just the fancy way of saying "and then his heart stopped." But someone in medicine can correct me if I'm wrong.
There's the obvious case of someone dying because their heart was physically removed or otherwise rendered significantly non-heartlike. I'm guessing that doesn't fall under cardiac arrest?
I was pulled away before posting, so I didn't see the many posts already giving a more accurate explanation than I could.
Wart is Pepe when his sprite is edited to be Pepe. They changed the eyes and added the lips to the mouth.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/opinion/jeffrey-epstein-death.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
I do despise Ghislaine Maxwell, who seems almost certain to get away with it now. And she seems to have gone into hiding. The press cannot find her. I'd like to think that her passport is on lockdown, but I think we all fucking know that the authorities don't care all that much about seeing justice in this case, and if she were to take a 30 year vacation in a chic apartment in Moscow, that would be ideal for them.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
I'm surprised that he didn't have anything geared to release on his death or incarceration. Is that harder to set up than it sounds, or did he just think he was untouchable?
You can basically just leave a sealed letter with a lawyer for them to open in the event of your death. Call it funeral instructions or something, and it's not even suspicious. In the event of incarceration can be done by leaving your blackmail material in your safe. Be sure to helpfully label it so they'll be sure to find it.
This is honestly not surprising given the state of prisons.
Edit: Basically, it is going to be depressing telling conspiracy theorists that the only thing abnormal about all this is the prison forgot they needed to actually follow the rules when a ton of eyes are on them but they are incompetent so even that is kind of expected.
At this point my main question is about how common suicide is (statistically) at these facilities because given the security around Epstein it basically seems like they aren't even trying to stop people from killing themselves and so if this wasn't unusual we should have some numbers on that.