Was there ever an explanation for why they decided to lose the coloured ABXY buttons on the US SNES?
That plus the sharp edges makes me think the SNES got redesigned by someone who was doing 90's comic book designs. Edgy, no colours, what is this thing you call 'fun'...
I don't recall if the reasoning behind the colors were ever stated, but here is a bit about the console redesign, while the controller is here.
The SNES significantly outsold the Genesis and didn't need a "16-bit" logo. Like I said, you can advertise that on the box and in your commercials. It just looks garish on the console.
Blue is regions where the Genesis/Mega Drive outsold the SNES. They were about even worldwide, but in some places (like the UK) the Mega Drive more than doubled SNES sales.
And Nintendo chose the name Nintendo 64 for a reason (but only after announcing the Ultra 64 and taking some ads out). They needed something to point to over the 32-bit Playstation.
I think Nintendo said something about keeping it consistent worldwide, but I find the Konami theory the most amusing.
According to the Console Wars book, the folks handling Sega of America stuff just had no idea what to do with the Master System, which is a large part of why it didn't do well in North America. The marketing team switched up for Genesis, and that's a large part of why the Genesis dominated the first half of that generation.
Early on, it was Tonka handling the Master System, for what that's worth.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
At around 26:50 they dive into the UI for a considerable amount of time. Looks like you can switch between the three regional UIs. I haven't watched the whole thing.
The bit wars were definitely a thing back in the day. Atari even claimed that the Jaguar was more powerful than their 16 bit competitors because it was a "64 bit" system (it had two 32 bit processors, and 32+32=64 so clearly that means it's a 64 bit machine).
The problem was that there was no universal standard for bits, different companies used different specs (CPU, bus path, etc) and as a result you could say that the Xbox was a 32 bit system whereas the Dreamcast was a 128 bit system, making comparisons meaningless, which is why we don't use them anymore.
Yep. Something I find more ridiculous is how many game cartridge boxes (this was mostly a 16-bit era thing, as I recall) advertised how many megabits the ROM was. Even as a kid who got duped into renting or even buying all sorts of bad games, I knew that number meant pretty much jack shit about the quality of the game.
I don't know anyone who looked at a game box and bought it because it said it was a "20 megabit adventure."
Sega were doing that as far back as Master System games.
(Another console that deserves a Mini version. But it'll never happen.)
Twice the Mega Power!
I think there were a few NES games that did as well, but it seemed like it really ramped up with the 16-bit consoles.
At around 26:50 they dive into the UI for a considerable amount of time. Looks like you can switch between the three regional UIs. I haven't watched the whole thing.
Yeah, in that they seem to switch between PC Engine and Core Grafx appearances for the Japanese games, and TG-16 for the games in English. I wonder if that'll be tweaked for the Core Grafx unit given that it's the European version.
Also, my mind was officially blown when they showed the screen size options. One of them frames it with the top half of the PC Engine GT (aka TurboExpress) handheld. The reason that hit me so hard was that I started with a PC Engine GT, and for a long, long time (well over a decade) it was actually the only PCE/TG machine I had - which was actually fine, the GT was a stunning handheld that played the full-size HuCard games from the home unit, and had a truly fantastic screen for the time, light years ahead of its contemporaries, the Game Gear and Atari Lynx, let alone the original Game Boy. The Lynx still had a power advantage - it was an enormously powerful machine for its day - but the GT's screen was on another level. The GT had a similar thirst for batteries as the Lynx and GG, though - six Duracell AAs would get you maybe three hours or so, so rechargeables (though apparently not recommended) and an AC adapter were essential accessories as with thr Atari and Sega machines.
So yeah, for me that is a very, very cool little unexpected addition to the PCE/TG-16 Mini. And it shows the love and genuine enthusiasm the team behind this are putting into it. Compare to the relatively "shove it out the door" manner that the Playstation Classic was handled...
Also - according to the host lady who opened the show in English, apparently today is the last day to pre-order where you will be guaranteed a unit on day one. Remember it's Amazon exclusive, but also that Amazon doesn't take your money until the order ships, so get your pre-orders in now if you're interested at all - you can always cancel it later.
I don't know what the numbers were like, but I always got the impression (living here) that the NES was pretty niche in Europe; certainly the UK. It wasn't obscure by any means, but the Master System had more presence (it was quite well marketed by Mastertronic over here, a huge name in budget computer games, whereas the NES was marketed by Mattel and squarely positioned as a toy, which it wasn't all that good at), and NES games were prohibitively expensive by comparison too. (Nintendo's real UK foothold came with the Game Boy, originally.)
The UK was still ruled by home computers of the time. The Sinclair ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64 were the big names in the 8-bit generation, with other players like the BBC Micro and the Amstrad CPC; IBM-compatible PCs were almost entirely business-only computers here in the '80s, again mainly due to their extortionate cost, and the Mac was almost entirely an enthusiast (and desktop publishing) product for similar reasons. The 16-bit generation of computers was ramping up in the late '80s, as the Atari ST and Commodore Amiga took over. But the 8-bits still took years to die off; Spectrum software was around as late as '93.
Part of the reason the NES didn't do so well in the UK is that we didn't really have the Videogame Crash in the UK that the US did. Nintendo had to market the NES as a toy to get it accepted in the US, but the UK wasn't looking for a toy. They actually wanted a games machine, so the same marketing didn't really do the job.
I had a ZX Spectrum (cassette loading, so I could copy games from everyone else I knew rather than pay the £3 for a new one, so I got into game piracy from an early age), then went straight from that to a SNES. It was a jump.
I wonder how much did the 60hz to 50hz difference affect game console sales back then? I'd assume the computers had their own monitors, meaning the games would always run at the right frame rate. Since the game consoles used TVs, they had to obey the regions standards but they didn't bother properly porting the games so they'd run at 50hz, meaning an objectively worse experience.
I don't know what the numbers were like, but I always got the impression (living here) that the NES was pretty niche in Europe; certainly the UK. It wasn't obscure by any means, but the Master System had more presence (it was quite well marketed by Mastertronic over here, a huge name in budget computer games, whereas the NES was marketed by Mattel and squarely positioned as a toy, which it wasn't all that good at), and NES games were prohibitively expensive by comparison too. (Nintendo's real UK foothold came with the Game Boy, originally.)
The UK was still ruled by home computers of the time. The Sinclair ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64 were the big names in the 8-bit generation, with other players like the BBC Micro and the Amstrad CPC; IBM-compatible PCs were almost entirely business-only computers here in the '80s, again mainly due to their extortionate cost, and the Mac was almost entirely an enthusiast (and desktop publishing) product for similar reasons. The 16-bit generation of computers was ramping up in the late '80s, as the Atari ST and Commodore Amiga took over. But the 8-bits still took years to die off; Spectrum software was around as late as '93.
Part of the reason the NES didn't do so well in the UK is that we didn't really have the Videogame Crash in the UK that the US did. Nintendo had to market the NES as a toy to get it accepted in the US, but the UK wasn't looking for a toy. They actually wanted a games machine, so the same marketing didn't really do the job.
I had a ZX Spectrum (cassette loading, so I could copy games from everyone else I knew rather than pay the £3 for a new one, so I got into game piracy from an early age), then went straight from that to a SNES. It was a jump.
The really weird thing about the crash (in the US, anyway) is that it didn't feel like a crash at the time. Sure, a bunch of companies that used to make games weren't making games anymore, and Kay*Bee Toys was clearing out just tons of old games for a couple bucks each, but people in my age range had already moved on to the 8-and-16-bit micros for gaming and consoles were largely forgotten. The NES was "why would you buy that when the games are so expensive and look worse than anything on the Amiga?"
(And yes, you could copy the Amiga games which was very important as a young lad)
People talk about it like it was this bleak landscape where gaming had died, but it was more that the first wave of consumers had grown up a little.
I wonder how much did the 60hz to 50hz difference affect game console sales back then? I'd assume the computers had their own monitors, meaning the games would always run at the right frame rate. Since the game consoles used TVs, they had to obey the regions standards but they didn't bother properly porting the games so they'd run at 50hz, meaning an objectively worse experience.
Almost all of the computers that dominated the '80s in the UK used TVs. But the vast majority of the software was written domestically and built for that standard. (Monitors existed, sure, but were expensive, often monochrome early on, and unnecessary if you were primarily playing games. They were really only required if you had an IBM PC; Amstrad also bundled them with the CPC, most famously the green mono one. But Spectrum, C64, ST and Amiga users etc would usually use a TV. Almost all of them had RF modulators built in, and ones that didn't included dongle ones.)
It really wasn't an issue until software developed overseas for 60Hz was being ported to the 50Hz standard. And honestly I don't even remember it being an actual problem until some games on the PlayStation, but that's just me.
SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
Yeah, as someone who got an Atari 2600 as a kid at the height of the video game crash, I had no inkling of an idea that there was anything going wrong with the industry. I do remember going with my dad to local stores that were selling Atari games in clearance bins every now and then, but that's about it. The transition to the NES era felt pretty smooth to me back then.
As an aside, I just ordered a refurbished SNES Classic directly from Nintendo. The plan is to hack it and send it to my brother for his birthday at the end of the month. I think he'll like it!
Let's also remember Neo Geo's little boot splash screen for every game:
The most powerful 16-bit console hardware (that's right! Come at me, everyone else who played much more successful consoles!) deserves a truly powerful splash screen.
Yes, it's garish, but it actually incorporates elements of SNK's modern advertising and I love it. I used it as the splash screen for my failed attempt at a Neo Geo-themed RetroPie setup.
I'm holding out hope that Arcade1up and SNK can collaborate on a replica MVS 4-in-1.
That will be bought instantly, I have always wanted one.
I wouldn't buy one, but I'd still love to see it. Why stop at 4? Because of licensing restrictions or any number of reasons.
Ultimately, what I want is a competent (and if not even that, hackable) AES Mini with good quality controllers in both types (though the gamepad-style controllers would be the included ones, doubtlessly). It sounds like it'd be an easy thing, but SNK and its partners keep trying weird (and in the case of the Neo Geo X, surprisingly forward thinking--they beat the Switch by 3 years? 4?) stuff that takes more effort and has less great results.
Most of the Arcade1up systems end up including around 4 games. Plus the 4in1 cabs are the cabs I played on when I was a kid and they could probably get it to look right.
That's a good reason. It's just "unusual" because the MVS, at its core, was marketed as a multiple-cartridge system well before that was normal among arcade cabinets (running from a typical "one-slot" arrangement to a max of six, I think), that generally had compatibility throughout the lifespan. If you knew your history, it'd seem kind of odd that a modern mini, 20 years later, would be "inferior" in this sense...but who does? And it's not like they'd design a setup where you could swap out the ROM boards anyway like on the actual MVS.
Or would they?
No, no! They tried that with the Neo Geo X and it was a bad idea!
(Being able to swap out the actual cartridges might actually push me over into buying such a monstrosity...maybe if it had the Japanese cabinet style.)
Synthesis on
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
I'm holding out hope that Arcade1up and SNK can collaborate on a replica MVS 4-in-1.
That will be bought instantly, I have always wanted one.
I wouldn't buy one, but I'd still love to see it. Why stop at 4? Because of licensing restrictions or any number of reasons.
Ultimately, what I want is a competent (and if not even that, hackable) AES Mini with good quality controllers in both types (though the gamepad-style controllers would be the included ones, doubtlessly). It sounds like it'd be an easy thing, but SNK and its partners keep trying weird (and in the case of the Neo Geo X, surprisingly forward thinking--they beat the Switch by 3 years? 4?) stuff that takes more effort and has less great results.
How about one with 20 games, and you get to pick four pieces of art to put in the marquee up top.
Well my Playstation Classic was delivered yesterday. I never had a Playstation when it was around the first time--My wife had a PS3 when we first got together but we didn't game on it very much.
And yeah, I'm glad I only played $20 for this thing. I mainly got it for FFVII, Resident Evil, and Metal Gear Solid (all of which I have not played before). And the other games are just kind of...there? The interface is super barebones. I understand you can hack the thing and put whatever games you want on it (and fix the PAL issues), but still I can definitely see why this thing didn't do well. I mean I guess it's OK but it sure seems like Sony half-assed it.
Makes me wonder how the Genesis mini will fare. I feel like that one's a bit unique since there have been several similar systems (by AtGames) over the years.
Switch Friend Code: SW-4598-4278-8875
3DS Friend Code: 0404-6826-4588 PM if you add.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
...Makes me wonder how the Genesis mini will fare. I feel like that one's a bit unique since there have been several similar systems (by AtGames) over the years.
Reviewer consoles have been getting great previews. There might be some audio delay? But the review consoles aren't the launch ones so, it could be gone by the time it launches.
Kinda curious if/how sales of the Genesis mini will be affected by all the shitty Genesis minis that have been available for a looooong time now.
That's the question, isn't it? I don't think it was ever going to touch the NES and SNES for nostalgia value, which helped drive them to over five million sales each in Mini form, but hopefully the poorer Genesis ones haven't muddied the waters too much. I'd like to see the MD/Genesis shift a million or two, that's probably realistic. Word seems to be out there that it's worth it.
Kinda curious if/how sales of the Genesis mini will be affected by all the shitty Genesis minis that have been available for a looooong time now.
That's the question, isn't it? I don't think it was ever going to touch the NES and SNES for nostalgia value, which helped drive them to over five million sales each in Mini form, but hopefully the poorer Genesis ones haven't muddied the waters too much. I'd like to see the MD/Genesis shift a million or two, that's probably realistic. Word seems to be out there that it's worth it.
If I'm remembering right the first Genesis minis were available in drug stores and stuff quite a while before the NES hit. I wonder how they'll get the message that this is the actually good one to people who ain't us. Hell, maybe even to people who are us.
Yeah, I'm only somewhat in the know, and my default reaction to this is "...Isn't this like the 5th damn mini Genesis they've tried to release?"
I could imagine to a complete layperson who doesn't know squat upon seeing this on a shelf might just assume it's the same exact thing they passed over the first time years ago.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Yeah, I'm only somewhat in the know, and my default reaction to this is "...Isn't this like the 5th damn mini Genesis they've tried to release?"
I could imagine to a complete layperson who doesn't know squat upon seeing this on a shelf might just assume it's the same exact thing they passed over the first time years ago.
My worry is that it'll be exactly that, but coupled with, "...but it costs twice as much?"
SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
edited August 2019
My brother's 40th birthday is soon. I've been saying for a while that I wanted to get him an SNES Classic. I had to settle for a refurbished one which I recently ordered directly from Nintendo. For anyone wondering what the packaging looks like for a refurbished unit, here it is:
I intend to make some modifications and improvements before sending it to him. This will be a nicer thing than the usual Amazon gift cards I send his way every year.
edit: removed second image due to failure to resize it in imgur to something suitable for the forum, but basically everything was packaged in bubble wrap inside.
While I own an original Genesis console, I only have 3 games for it due to having the Sega Channel as a kid, so the Genesis Mini has stuff to offer me unlike the NES, SNES, and PS1 minis since I have an actual library for those. If it had Ristar I'd probably get it day one, but as it is i think I'll wait for a sale.
Well my Playstation Classic was delivered yesterday. I never had a Playstation when it was around the first time--My wife had a PS3 when we first got together but we didn't game on it very much.
And yeah, I'm glad I only played $20 for this thing. I mainly got it for FFVII, Resident Evil, and Metal Gear Solid (all of which I have not played before). And the other games are just kind of...there? The interface is super barebones. I understand you can hack the thing and put whatever games you want on it (and fix the PAL issues), but still I can definitely see why this thing didn't do well. I mean I guess it's OK but it sure seems like Sony half-assed it.
Makes me wonder how the Genesis mini will fare. I feel like that one's a bit unique since there have been several similar systems (by AtGames) over the years.
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo & Wild Arms are great as well.
You do have to be able to stomach old school JRPG encounter rates and grinding for Wild Arms though.
Wild Arms had a really cool cold open, though. You play through like 3-4 hours of the game, and then it rolls credits before getting you back to the rest. I thought that was really novel at the time.
Interesting, so it won't be a mini-C64 like the previous one. Wonder if the joystick will be an improved version than the one that comes with the Mini.
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I don't recall if the reasoning behind the colors were ever stated, but here is a bit about the console redesign, while the controller is here.
I think Nintendo said something about keeping it consistent worldwide, but I find the Konami theory the most amusing.
Early on, it was Tonka handling the Master System, for what that's worth.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
At around 26:50 they dive into the UI for a considerable amount of time. Looks like you can switch between the three regional UIs. I haven't watched the whole thing.
Yeah, in that they seem to switch between PC Engine and Core Grafx appearances for the Japanese games, and TG-16 for the games in English. I wonder if that'll be tweaked for the Core Grafx unit given that it's the European version.
Also, my mind was officially blown when they showed the screen size options. One of them frames it with the top half of the PC Engine GT (aka TurboExpress) handheld. The reason that hit me so hard was that I started with a PC Engine GT, and for a long, long time (well over a decade) it was actually the only PCE/TG machine I had - which was actually fine, the GT was a stunning handheld that played the full-size HuCard games from the home unit, and had a truly fantastic screen for the time, light years ahead of its contemporaries, the Game Gear and Atari Lynx, let alone the original Game Boy. The Lynx still had a power advantage - it was an enormously powerful machine for its day - but the GT's screen was on another level. The GT had a similar thirst for batteries as the Lynx and GG, though - six Duracell AAs would get you maybe three hours or so, so rechargeables (though apparently not recommended) and an AC adapter were essential accessories as with thr Atari and Sega machines.
So yeah, for me that is a very, very cool little unexpected addition to the PCE/TG-16 Mini. And it shows the love and genuine enthusiasm the team behind this are putting into it. Compare to the relatively "shove it out the door" manner that the Playstation Classic was handled...
Also - according to the host lady who opened the show in English, apparently today is the last day to pre-order where you will be guaranteed a unit on day one. Remember it's Amazon exclusive, but also that Amazon doesn't take your money until the order ships, so get your pre-orders in now if you're interested at all - you can always cancel it later.
Steam | XBL
Part of the reason the NES didn't do so well in the UK is that we didn't really have the Videogame Crash in the UK that the US did. Nintendo had to market the NES as a toy to get it accepted in the US, but the UK wasn't looking for a toy. They actually wanted a games machine, so the same marketing didn't really do the job.
I had a ZX Spectrum (cassette loading, so I could copy games from everyone else I knew rather than pay the £3 for a new one, so I got into game piracy from an early age), then went straight from that to a SNES. It was a jump.
"Oh look, the Crash didn't affect this region. We can just market it for what it is here."
"The hell we will! We came up with a brilliant scheme, and we're going to use it, by gum!"
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
The really weird thing about the crash (in the US, anyway) is that it didn't feel like a crash at the time. Sure, a bunch of companies that used to make games weren't making games anymore, and Kay*Bee Toys was clearing out just tons of old games for a couple bucks each, but people in my age range had already moved on to the 8-and-16-bit micros for gaming and consoles were largely forgotten. The NES was "why would you buy that when the games are so expensive and look worse than anything on the Amiga?"
(And yes, you could copy the Amiga games which was very important as a young lad)
People talk about it like it was this bleak landscape where gaming had died, but it was more that the first wave of consumers had grown up a little.
Almost all of the computers that dominated the '80s in the UK used TVs. But the vast majority of the software was written domestically and built for that standard. (Monitors existed, sure, but were expensive, often monochrome early on, and unnecessary if you were primarily playing games. They were really only required if you had an IBM PC; Amstrad also bundled them with the CPC, most famously the green mono one. But Spectrum, C64, ST and Amiga users etc would usually use a TV. Almost all of them had RF modulators built in, and ones that didn't included dongle ones.)
It really wasn't an issue until software developed overseas for 60Hz was being ported to the 50Hz standard. And honestly I don't even remember it being an actual problem until some games on the PlayStation, but that's just me.
Steam | XBL
As an aside, I just ordered a refurbished SNES Classic directly from Nintendo. The plan is to hack it and send it to my brother for his birthday at the end of the month. I think he'll like it!
The most powerful 16-bit console hardware (that's right! Come at me, everyone else who played much more successful consoles!) deserves a truly powerful splash screen.
Yes, it's garish, but it actually incorporates elements of SNK's modern advertising and I love it. I used it as the splash screen for my failed attempt at a Neo Geo-themed RetroPie setup.
Have I mentioned how much I still love Neo Geo?
Steam: betsuni7
They (an AES) are not too pricey to obtain.
On the other hand, quite a few game boards cost a small fortune.
That will be bought instantly, I have always wanted one.
I wouldn't buy one, but I'd still love to see it. Why stop at 4? Because of licensing restrictions or any number of reasons.
Ultimately, what I want is a competent (and if not even that, hackable) AES Mini with good quality controllers in both types (though the gamepad-style controllers would be the included ones, doubtlessly). It sounds like it'd be an easy thing, but SNK and its partners keep trying weird (and in the case of the Neo Geo X, surprisingly forward thinking--they beat the Switch by 3 years? 4?) stuff that takes more effort and has less great results.
I doubt they would do a 8in1 or 16in1.
Or would they?
No, no! They tried that with the Neo Geo X and it was a bad idea!
(Being able to swap out the actual cartridges might actually push me over into buying such a monstrosity...maybe if it had the Japanese cabinet style.)
How about one with 20 games, and you get to pick four pieces of art to put in the marquee up top.
And yeah, I'm glad I only played $20 for this thing. I mainly got it for FFVII, Resident Evil, and Metal Gear Solid (all of which I have not played before). And the other games are just kind of...there? The interface is super barebones. I understand you can hack the thing and put whatever games you want on it (and fix the PAL issues), but still I can definitely see why this thing didn't do well. I mean I guess it's OK but it sure seems like Sony half-assed it.
Makes me wonder how the Genesis mini will fare. I feel like that one's a bit unique since there have been several similar systems (by AtGames) over the years.
3DS Friend Code: 0404-6826-4588 PM if you add.
Reviewer consoles have been getting great previews. There might be some audio delay? But the review consoles aren't the launch ones so, it could be gone by the time it launches.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
That's the question, isn't it? I don't think it was ever going to touch the NES and SNES for nostalgia value, which helped drive them to over five million sales each in Mini form, but hopefully the poorer Genesis ones haven't muddied the waters too much. I'd like to see the MD/Genesis shift a million or two, that's probably realistic. Word seems to be out there that it's worth it.
Steam | XBL
If I'm remembering right the first Genesis minis were available in drug stores and stuff quite a while before the NES hit. I wonder how they'll get the message that this is the actually good one to people who ain't us. Hell, maybe even to people who are us.
I could imagine to a complete layperson who doesn't know squat upon seeing this on a shelf might just assume it's the same exact thing they passed over the first time years ago.
My worry is that it'll be exactly that, but coupled with, "...but it costs twice as much?"
Steam | XBL
I intend to make some modifications and improvements before sending it to him. This will be a nicer thing than the usual Amazon gift cards I send his way every year.
edit: removed second image due to failure to resize it in imgur to something suitable for the forum, but basically everything was packaged in bubble wrap inside.
Wild Arms had a really cool cold open, though. You play through like 3-4 hours of the game, and then it rolls credits before getting you back to the rest. I thought that was really novel at the time.
That's the N64 for me. I always wanted one and to this day I've only really played a handful of games on the system, none of them to completion.
https://www.gamestop.com/video-games/retro-gaming/playstation/consoles/products/playstation-classic/10168643.html
Steam: betsuni7
Steam | XBL