It does kind of remind me of some MMOs where some abilities have "charges" with interleaved cooldowns and a gui built into the actual button to show how many you had and how far along you are into charging another one. They usuallly had some kind of cap for how many charges you could store for later.
Yes, Tracer's blinks and now Brig's packs work exactly like that. You have three charges you can use quickly but will have to wait for them to cooldown individually (and once it cools down three times, you're back at having 3 charges stored up).
As far as TF2, yeah I'm not sure they had anything that worked like charges. The vaccinator kinda-sorta, if you count filling up the uber bar as a cooldown and using a chunk of the uber bar as a charge?
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Symm's turrets also work that way.
0
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
O.o You are right they did. They probably stilll do, even with just the 3. I completely forgot about that. Turrets are a little different, it makes sense there are only so many of them, but the mechanics here are still the same.
edit: I proffered a theory about charges always being 3 that was quickly debunked.
Double Edit: Actually let's not continue to talk about how I don't know how the game I've been playing for years works. Let's instead laugh at how I played two games as Torb where I didn't know how to ult. I'm sure the enemy team was super confused.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
I have decided that I am going to take the opportunity Role Queue represents and stop playing tank all the time since I am really bad at it.
I'm going to learn how to play a really good Tracer and focus on that exclusively for a while.
I can't see how this could fail.
+1
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited August 2019
Here is a video of my not knowing how to Torb ult. Sorry about the bad framerate. You can see the mistake with my input overlay: I didn't click left mouse button. At all.
I was certain I had some kind of graphical glitch or something and the ult was actually happening. Why wouldn't it happen?
after that I had to quit and start reading up. Which when you start with "torb ult graphical glitch invisible" for search terms took longer that it probably should have.
When I figured out what was actually happening I nearly fell over laughing.
edit: Please fill the thread with torb advice
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
I reinstalled the game after taking a bit of a hiatus from it and 1) almost instantly developed the same muscle straining issue I experienced last time, and 2) can now issue valid opinions on some of the new stuff!
Sigma is fun. None of his kit is terribly novel, but it all works together well enough that he's just a joy to play. The rebound and AoE on his main attack means you don't have to be a perfect shot (though it helps) and throwing a giant rock at people will never not be entertaining. I had a point where a Genji ulted, released I was about to hit him with Accretion, and tried to deflect. He died.
Genji > wtf
Kupi > Your ninja tricks are useless against my giant rock.
Genji > lmao
Yeah, new-Brigitte is absolutely weaker than she used to be, and you can't play her like you used to. The topic's been discussed to death already, but I think possibly the problem with old Brigitte was that she just had too much of the Tank nature in her, so while she wasn't Reinhardt and couldn't pull off the whole "hold shield and march forward until they're in hammering range" against an entire team, she absolutely could pull that off against any one enemy. If you'll forgive the resort to a tired metaphor, it was like having a Paper that was less Paper than most Paper, but was actually strong against Scissors. New Brigitte doesn't have a guaranteed win against flankers any more, and while I agree that you could say "well then what's the point", she does still have 200 extra shield and a cleaving melee weapon that does reasonable damage. She might not win a direct engagement with any given DPS any more, but she dies slower than, say, Ana or Zenyatta would in the same situation, and you can't heal people if you're dead.
(Note that this is all Quick Play experience. Obviously this might not apply to more coordinated enemies.)
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
Is there any circumstance where you'd want to take Brigitte over a different support, I guess is the key question.
brig is actually decent with a team sporting winston and genji. her heal gives armor and then heals over time so it can give them a nice boost before engaging. in a group up, she's monstrous and can build her ult pretty fast.
I had some awesome experiences being supported by a Brig as Tracer last night. Her ability to stack extra health on me turned me into a nightmare for the enemy team.
update those video drivers - a change in game code can mess with drivers especially if the drivers have been specifically optimized for that game as most modern drivers are
My drivers are as up to date as they can be right now.
I reinstalled the game after taking a bit of a hiatus from it and 1) almost instantly developed the same muscle straining issue I experienced last time, and 2) can now issue valid opinions on some of the new stuff!
Sigma is fun. None of his kit is terribly novel, but it all works together well enough that he's just a joy to play. The rebound and AoE on his main attack means you don't have to be a perfect shot (though it helps) and throwing a giant rock at people will never not be entertaining. I had a point where a Genji ulted, released I was about to hit him with Accretion, and tried to deflect. He died.
Genji > wtf
Kupi > Your ninja tricks are useless against my giant rock.
Genji > lmao
Yeah, new-Brigitte is absolutely weaker than she used to be, and you can't play her like you used to. The topic's been discussed to death already, but I think possibly the problem with old Brigitte was that she just had too much of the Tank nature in her, so while she wasn't Reinhardt and couldn't pull off the whole "hold shield and march forward until they're in hammering range" against an entire team, she absolutely could pull that off against any one enemy. If you'll forgive the resort to a tired metaphor, it was like having a Paper that was less Paper than most Paper, but was actually strong against Scissors. New Brigitte doesn't have a guaranteed win against flankers any more, and while I agree that you could say "well then what's the point", she does still have 200 extra shield and a cleaving melee weapon that does reasonable damage. She might not win a direct engagement with any given DPS any more, but she dies slower than, say, Ana or Zenyatta would in the same situation, and you can't heal people if you're dead.
(Note that this is all Quick Play experience. Obviously this might not apply to more coordinated enemies.)
Here's the problem with Brig now: She doesn't have the survivability to do her job.
Pretty much all flankers/damage dealers all do their jobs at range. Brig needs to be in your face and hitting you to both do damage and more importantly, heal. Now that her shield is made of tissue paper, she's not going to survive the approach to the enemy line. In a 1v1 scenario., almost every single other character outside of zen and Ana have a way to increase the gap between themselves and brig, preventing her from doing anything useful.
Her one gap closer can be completely disabled by just shooting at her until her shield breaks, which is like, a single clip from any given character at most, depending on the falloff. Her only other offensive ability is a boop that increases the gap between her and the enemy further. Which doesn't help anybody where her niche is concerned.
She basically only pairs well with other melee range characters like Reinhardt and... Maybe Doomfist? Although he's so damn mobile that he might as well be a ranged character where he is the bullet as well as the gun, she'd have difficulty keeping up with him.
Honestly, they could stand to push her shield value back up. She's completely worthless against a lot of different comps. She's a support who needs another support to keep her alive long enough to reach the enemy so she can do her job of being a support. Why would anyone choose that when you can do the same things she can but without having to run into a wall of dakka to do their jobs?
update those video drivers - a change in game code can mess with drivers especially if the drivers have been specifically optimized for that game as most modern drivers are
My drivers are as up to date as they can be right now.
I reinstalled the game after taking a bit of a hiatus from it and 1) almost instantly developed the same muscle straining issue I experienced last time, and 2) can now issue valid opinions on some of the new stuff!
Sigma is fun. None of his kit is terribly novel, but it all works together well enough that he's just a joy to play. The rebound and AoE on his main attack means you don't have to be a perfect shot (though it helps) and throwing a giant rock at people will never not be entertaining. I had a point where a Genji ulted, released I was about to hit him with Accretion, and tried to deflect. He died.
Genji > wtf
Kupi > Your ninja tricks are useless against my giant rock.
Genji > lmao
Yeah, new-Brigitte is absolutely weaker than she used to be, and you can't play her like you used to. The topic's been discussed to death already, but I think possibly the problem with old Brigitte was that she just had too much of the Tank nature in her, so while she wasn't Reinhardt and couldn't pull off the whole "hold shield and march forward until they're in hammering range" against an entire team, she absolutely could pull that off against any one enemy. If you'll forgive the resort to a tired metaphor, it was like having a Paper that was less Paper than most Paper, but was actually strong against Scissors. New Brigitte doesn't have a guaranteed win against flankers any more, and while I agree that you could say "well then what's the point", she does still have 200 extra shield and a cleaving melee weapon that does reasonable damage. She might not win a direct engagement with any given DPS any more, but she dies slower than, say, Ana or Zenyatta would in the same situation, and you can't heal people if you're dead.
(Note that this is all Quick Play experience. Obviously this might not apply to more coordinated enemies.)
Here's the problem with Brig now: She doesn't have the survivability to do her job.
Pretty much all flankers/damage dealers all do their jobs at range. Brig needs to be in your face and hitting you to both do damage and more importantly, heal. Now that her shield is made of tissue paper, she's not going to survive the approach to the enemy line. In a 1v1 scenario., almost every single other character outside of zen and Ana have a way to increase the gap between themselves and brig, preventing her from doing anything useful.
Her one gap closer can be completely disabled by just shooting at her until her shield breaks, which is like, a single clip from any given character at most, depending on the falloff. Her only other offensive ability is a boop that increases the gap between her and the enemy further. Which doesn't help anybody where her niche is concerned.
She basically only pairs well with other melee range characters like Reinhardt and... Maybe Doomfist? Although he's so damn mobile that he might as well be a ranged character where he is the bullet as well as the gun, she'd have difficulty keeping up with him.
Honestly, they could stand to push her shield value back up. She's completely worthless against a lot of different comps. She's a support who needs another support to keep her alive long enough to reach the enemy so she can do her job of being a support. Why would anyone choose that when you can do the same things she can but without having to run into a wall of dakka to do their jobs?
I think you're envisioning a trench war scenario where Brig has to advance through a hail of bullets to reach enemy territory. That's not really what she's for, she needs a tank to cover her like anybody else does. That might mean advancing with Rein, or it might mean diving with tanks who are disruptive enough to keep enemies from focusing fire on her. What she gets in exchange for the short range is enough durability to stay alive in close range brawls - 450hp, with half of it recharging very fast and the other half self-healing in combat, is nothing to sneeze at. If the enemy team is burning through that, they're giving your teammates a lot of time to kill them. If you're in a game that does operate like that where both teams are standing at range trading shots, definitely don't play Brig. Even before she was poorly suited to that.
She's also still quite good at anti-dive. She won't kill a diver who is being cautious to maintain range, but she will chase them off at least if her team isn't asleep. Dive characters have pretty short effective ranges themselves.
+3
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
If they won't nerf Sigma's absorption animation or take away the stun on the rock throw (I really think it needs to go, it's too powerful), what I am finding the most annoying this about the character is the onscreen clutter he creates. I can't see half the stuff going on with his team because the boulder is so large and the absorption ball is so big on top of his barrier and usually another tank's barrier. It's one thing to have an enemy have a shield, you can at least see through it and line up, but with Sigma that's thrown out the window. Add to it those stupid bouncy primary fire that seems to have a larger projectile radius than shown and it all feels incredibly cheap, like how they won't fix Genji's dash animation cancel bullshit where you're getting hit by things you can't even see because the game can't show it.
For all the game's faults it's been pretty clean on visual and easy to understand cues, Sigma in his current form takes a big dump on that.
+1
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I wonder do Sigma's balls get extra range if you bounce them off a wall or is it a hard limit and they'll always explode after a set distance?
i actually think they could have brigs bash/dash be a .1 seconds, so it interrupts instant reactions and that's all. But have the cool down on bash be much lower. it doesn't do damage anymore so it might let her get some mobility back.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
The thing with Brig's 200 HP shield is that it's also tiny and very directional, so that +200 HP only counts when pointed directly at the enemy which further weakens her against flankers. She can either face the main fight to take hits from that direction, or she can turn and face a flanker to take hits from that direction; in either case, she's going to get shot from another angle with no way to fire back.
Not to mention that skinny shield is almost totally useless against aimable AoE attacks. In particular, it's dead easy as Ana to throw a grenade slightly to Brig's side, thus instantly taking away her one up-close survival advantage. And since Brig is likely going to be clustered with allies, you just dosed those allies who will also now not be getting any benefit from Brig's melee healing.
I think Brig is destined for a total rework. Other healers dole out more healing, more damage, or a lot more utility, and she doesn't even combo well with her own abilities. Ana's dart is immensely better for stun, Lucio's boop is both better and works with his mobility, Zen can't be killed out of his mass-heal ult, Moira and Baptiste both do mass healing quite easily, and Mercy can do loads of healing from safety AND contribute a lot with selective damage boosting AND has a bunch of mobility.
You're just listing out all the strengths of the other supports and the weaknesses of Brigitte to make her sound useless. At worst her numbers can be tweaked if her healing or survivability aren't good enough. But I don't think there's anything wrong with her core design - she's the brawler support. When the team comp calls for a lot of close range fights, Brigitte is the hardest support to kill, contributes good damage that penetrates shields and has a reliable interrupt. I think her value is hard to theorycraft, but she works in practice.
+1
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I think if Brig's charge had a bit longer range, it might help.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I honestly don't think Brig is weak right now and I'm confused where folks are seeing this.
But I guess its gonna be one of those things where folks believe it until high level players show where she is applicable.
As is the only change I would give her is maybe bring her shield HP up to 250 from 200 and even then I don't think it that necessary.
I think old brig enabled a lot of bad habits and over aggression, and now folks are experiencing some shock they can't play her the same way.
As a support, NewBrig is pretty legit, still respectably beefy and really good at pocketing squishies. Not great in shield war scenarios, not a dps dunker, but actually better as a support than she used to be.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
For the last week; she's got the highest winrate of all healers for Bronze-Diamond, is within .1% of highest at Masters, and is middle of the pack for GM. She's the least picked healer at all skill levels though, often by a large margin.
Those things in combination could be interpreted as a number of things, but I'd go with her having a specific niche that she excels at.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited August 2019
If you would have told me in 2016 that there would be a time where people would be asking you to pick Symmetra, Mei, and Reaper I would have called you a liar.
For the last week; she's got the highest winrate of all healers for Bronze-Diamond, is within .1% of highest at Masters, and is middle of the pack for GM. She's the least picked healer at all skill levels though, often by a large margin.
Those things in combination could be interpreted as a number of things, but I'd go with her having a specific niche that she excels at.
It sounds like the situation with 1.0 Symm who had an astronomical winrate, because she was really good in particular situations and people knew better than to pick her the rest of the time. I could see them making Brig a little more well-rounded at some point if that's a concern.
Brig's shield now is less a mini rein shield and more a mini zarya bubble. You can use it to block burst damage and turn a fight, but it won't let you move up under sustained fire.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
When you haven't played in several months and someone calls you out for being a Mei main and you look at your time played and see she isn't even your main DPS. Muscle memory is a hell of a thing.
just about the most broken sym push i've ever seen, finished off by my dissection of their sig (in about my 6th mei game ever) followed by our own sig's swift neutralization of their bastion, showing effective use of all skills
I reinstalled the game after taking a bit of a hiatus from it and 1) almost instantly developed the same muscle straining issue I experienced last time, and 2) can now issue valid opinions on some of the new stuff!
Sigma is fun. None of his kit is terribly novel, but it all works together well enough that he's just a joy to play. The rebound and AoE on his main attack means you don't have to be a perfect shot (though it helps) and throwing a giant rock at people will never not be entertaining. I had a point where a Genji ulted, released I was about to hit him with Accretion, and tried to deflect. He died.
Genji > wtf
Kupi > Your ninja tricks are useless against my giant rock.
Genji > lmao
Yeah, new-Brigitte is absolutely weaker than she used to be, and you can't play her like you used to. The topic's been discussed to death already, but I think possibly the problem with old Brigitte was that she just had too much of the Tank nature in her, so while she wasn't Reinhardt and couldn't pull off the whole "hold shield and march forward until they're in hammering range" against an entire team, she absolutely could pull that off against any one enemy. If you'll forgive the resort to a tired metaphor, it was like having a Paper that was less Paper than most Paper, but was actually strong against Scissors. New Brigitte doesn't have a guaranteed win against flankers any more, and while I agree that you could say "well then what's the point", she does still have 200 extra shield and a cleaving melee weapon that does reasonable damage. She might not win a direct engagement with any given DPS any more, but she dies slower than, say, Ana or Zenyatta would in the same situation, and you can't heal people if you're dead.
(Note that this is all Quick Play experience. Obviously this might not apply to more coordinated enemies.)
update those video drivers - a change in game code can mess with drivers especially if the drivers have been specifically optimized for that game as most modern drivers are
My drivers are as up to date as they can be right now.
I reinstalled the game after taking a bit of a hiatus from it and 1) almost instantly developed the same muscle straining issue I experienced last time, and 2) can now issue valid opinions on some of the new stuff!
Sigma is fun. None of his kit is terribly novel, but it all works together well enough that he's just a joy to play. The rebound and AoE on his main attack means you don't have to be a perfect shot (though it helps) and throwing a giant rock at people will never not be entertaining. I had a point where a Genji ulted, released I was about to hit him with Accretion, and tried to deflect. He died.
Genji > wtf
Kupi > Your ninja tricks are useless against my giant rock.
Genji > lmao
Yeah, new-Brigitte is absolutely weaker than she used to be, and you can't play her like you used to. The topic's been discussed to death already, but I think possibly the problem with old Brigitte was that she just had too much of the Tank nature in her, so while she wasn't Reinhardt and couldn't pull off the whole "hold shield and march forward until they're in hammering range" against an entire team, she absolutely could pull that off against any one enemy. If you'll forgive the resort to a tired metaphor, it was like having a Paper that was less Paper than most Paper, but was actually strong against Scissors. New Brigitte doesn't have a guaranteed win against flankers any more, and while I agree that you could say "well then what's the point", she does still have 200 extra shield and a cleaving melee weapon that does reasonable damage. She might not win a direct engagement with any given DPS any more, but she dies slower than, say, Ana or Zenyatta would in the same situation, and you can't heal people if you're dead.
(Note that this is all Quick Play experience. Obviously this might not apply to more coordinated enemies.)
Here's the problem with Brig now: She doesn't have the survivability to do her job.
Pretty much all flankers/damage dealers all do their jobs at range. Brig needs to be in your face and hitting you to both do damage and more importantly, heal. Now that her shield is made of tissue paper, she's not going to survive the approach to the enemy line. In a 1v1 scenario., almost every single other character outside of zen and Ana have a way to increase the gap between themselves and brig, preventing her from doing anything useful.
Her one gap closer can be completely disabled by just shooting at her until her shield breaks, which is like, a single clip from any given character at most, depending on the falloff. Her only other offensive ability is a boop that increases the gap between her and the enemy further. Which doesn't help anybody where her niche is concerned.
She basically only pairs well with other melee range characters like Reinhardt and... Maybe Doomfist? Although he's so damn mobile that he might as well be a ranged character where he is the bullet as well as the gun, she'd have difficulty keeping up with him.
Honestly, they could stand to push her shield value back up. She's completely worthless against a lot of different comps. She's a support who needs another support to keep her alive long enough to reach the enemy so she can do her job of being a support. Why would anyone choose that when you can do the same things she can but without having to run into a wall of dakka to do their jobs?
I think you're envisioning a trench war scenario where Brig has to advance through a hail of bullets to reach enemy territory. That's not really what she's for, she needs a tank to cover her like anybody else does. That might mean advancing with Rein, or it might mean diving with tanks who are disruptive enough to keep enemies from focusing fire on her. What she gets in exchange for the short range is enough durability to stay alive in close range brawls - 450hp, with half of it recharging very fast and the other half self-healing in combat, is nothing to sneeze at. If the enemy team is burning through that, they're giving your teammates a lot of time to kill them. If you're in a game that does operate like that where both teams are standing at range trading shots, definitely don't play Brig. Even before she was poorly suited to that.
She's also still quite good at anti-dive. She won't kill a diver who is being cautious to maintain range, but she will chase them off at least if her team isn't asleep. Dive characters have pretty short effective ranges themselves.
That's the problem though is yeah, you CAN advance with a tank and that would be preferable, but What do you do when the monkey leaps out and leaves you stranded there? Pretty much every other healer except zen can go in with a DPS or the other support ant you can generally expect a reasonable chance for both survival, and they always have their healing abilities at the ready without the need to be stuck in a knife fight, so why would I ever bring Brig? If you need a support and your aim is garbo, just bring Moira instead, at least her heal ball has range on it and she can ninja vanish if shit hits the fan.
Also, anyone else feel Zarya's bubbs are a little bit too bullshit? They shouldn't be able to cleanse EVERY status affect. Fire? Sure. Purple Drank? Alright. Freeze? Fair enough. But ALL three all the time?
Well gee thanks you just invalidated half or all of multiple characters kits. Normally the ability to invalidate peoples stuff is split up amongst multiple other characters, but sure fine, let's just make Zarya the Cleaning Sue Tank. It's especially painful if the other team has healers who are constantly on point, because the only answer to good healing is either grape juice Ana or a really really good sniper who can just click the healers heads constantly and I sure as hell don't get any of the latter, and now Zarya just says "fuck you" to the former.
Syzygy on
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
I have decided that I am going to take the opportunity Role Queue represents and stop playing tank all the time since I am really bad at it.
I'm going to learn how to play a really good Tracer and focus on that exclusively for a while.
I can't see how this could fail.
See, I'm the opposite - after placements my Tank SR was well below my Damage/Healing, so I'm obsessed with improving it and playing nothing but Tank until all 3 are the same rank or I give up forever
I have decided that I am going to take the opportunity Role Queue represents and stop playing tank all the time since I am really bad at it.
I'm going to learn how to play a really good Tracer and focus on that exclusively for a while.
I can't see how this could fail.
See, I'm the opposite - after placements my Tank SR was well below my Damage/Healing, so I'm obsessed with improving it and playing nothing but Tank until all 3 are the same rank or I give up forever
I remember reaching high gold with my Rein/D.Va play back before Orisa was a thing, and I was pretty happy with that. I felt like I knew what I was doing in almost all situations.
It has become very obvious to me that both the character and map roster are now so deep that I really do not understand the way the game is played any more. It is such a different experience to the one I remember having, even if superficially a lot of the elements are the same.
Therefore, if I'm going to have to relearn everything anyway... I'd rather learn how to do something new than fight against all the old instincts I have. Tracer's gameplan seems like it has remained fairly stable though; take weird approaches, hit the enemy from the side/behind and focus fire supports first where possible.
I feel like if I can nail that I can feel like I'm making a positive contribution to my team and figure out the rest of the changes to the game whilst playing it, rather than trying to absorb a million youtube videos.
I had not played competitive in a very long time, did all 15 placements and every role was practically identical, like +/- 50 SR. I figured they probably took my quick play MMR as a seed and just copied it into all three roles. Maybe if you play comp they have more granular data about your roles?
I had not played competitive in a very long time, did all 15 placements and every role was practically identical, like +/- 50 SR. I figured they probably took my quick play MMR as a seed and just copied it into all three roles. Maybe if you play comp they have more granular data about your roles?
I haven't played comp in like 7 seasons and my SRs are all about 200 apart. You might just be very consistent.
0
UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
There is a roughly 500 point gap between my Tank and Damage SRs, and about 100 between Healing and Damage
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited August 2019
That Zarya buff is actually pretty crazy. I used to lose that Tracer 1v1 unless at was at high energy. Now I can consistently win it even when my Energy is around the 30-50% range.
Dragkonias on
0
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited August 2019
My Beta Comp DPS rating is ~150 higher than my old rating. I wonder if that is just due to having tanks that actually want to tank, which is absolutely a silver lining to this entire fiasco.
I wonder if the perceived benefits of Role Queue could have been accomplished in a way that did not involve hard-coding 222 into the game. Because some of this change certainly has value.
This is such a big change I feel it should have been split into two - One change to deal with "I want to play certain heroes" and a different change to deal with "Teams should have a tank and a healer". The first issue in particular was a huge problem. I'd rather have a game with a bad comp but players that are engaged and happy, rather than a game with a full Meta comp but players that are irate and feel pressured into playing a particular hero.
I mean, it is probably too late now. Maybe they will learn from their mistakes.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
You really need to bait out the bubble if you want to win against a Zarya as Tracer (at least that's what I've found so far) and... that feels right.
I have also discovered that people are super quick to switch to Brig/Torb/Sym/McCree when you start really messing the team up as Tracer.
I've kind of had to revisit my 'try to main Tracer only' stance in that light. I can usually deal with one of those, but 2+ and I'm just not adding value any more.
Luckily it turns out that Soldier can outrange all those guys really nicely and he can also just pour damage into shields which is always useful.
Posts
Yes, Tracer's blinks and now Brig's packs work exactly like that. You have three charges you can use quickly but will have to wait for them to cooldown individually (and once it cools down three times, you're back at having 3 charges stored up).
As far as TF2, yeah I'm not sure they had anything that worked like charges. The vaccinator kinda-sorta, if you count filling up the uber bar as a cooldown and using a chunk of the uber bar as a charge?
O.o You are right they did. They probably stilll do, even with just the 3. I completely forgot about that. Turrets are a little different, it makes sense there are only so many of them, but the mechanics here are still the same.
edit: I proffered a theory about charges always being 3 that was quickly debunked.
Double Edit: Actually let's not continue to talk about how I don't know how the game I've been playing for years works. Let's instead laugh at how I played two games as Torb where I didn't know how to ult. I'm sure the enemy team was super confused.
I'm going to learn how to play a really good Tracer and focus on that exclusively for a while.
I can't see how this could fail.
I was certain I had some kind of graphical glitch or something and the ult was actually happening. Why wouldn't it happen?
https://clips.twitch.tv/CourageousObesePrariedogChefFrank
after that I had to quit and start reading up. Which when you start with "torb ult graphical glitch invisible" for search terms took longer that it probably should have.
When I figured out what was actually happening I nearly fell over laughing.
edit: Please fill the thread with torb advice
Sigma is fun. None of his kit is terribly novel, but it all works together well enough that he's just a joy to play. The rebound and AoE on his main attack means you don't have to be a perfect shot (though it helps) and throwing a giant rock at people will never not be entertaining. I had a point where a Genji ulted, released I was about to hit him with Accretion, and tried to deflect. He died.
Yeah, new-Brigitte is absolutely weaker than she used to be, and you can't play her like you used to. The topic's been discussed to death already, but I think possibly the problem with old Brigitte was that she just had too much of the Tank nature in her, so while she wasn't Reinhardt and couldn't pull off the whole "hold shield and march forward until they're in hammering range" against an entire team, she absolutely could pull that off against any one enemy. If you'll forgive the resort to a tired metaphor, it was like having a Paper that was less Paper than most Paper, but was actually strong against Scissors. New Brigitte doesn't have a guaranteed win against flankers any more, and while I agree that you could say "well then what's the point", she does still have 200 extra shield and a cleaving melee weapon that does reasonable damage. She might not win a direct engagement with any given DPS any more, but she dies slower than, say, Ana or Zenyatta would in the same situation, and you can't heal people if you're dead.
(Note that this is all Quick Play experience. Obviously this might not apply to more coordinated enemies.)
brig is actually decent with a team sporting winston and genji. her heal gives armor and then heals over time so it can give them a nice boost before engaging. in a group up, she's monstrous and can build her ult pretty fast.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
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Most flankers weren't breaking your shield anyway except maybe Tracer and that's where the buffed flail comes in.
Also another thing is that while Brig's shield is only 200HP while it breaks faster is also recovers fast so at most it'll be down for 3 seconds.
My drivers are as up to date as they can be right now.
Here's the problem with Brig now: She doesn't have the survivability to do her job.
Pretty much all flankers/damage dealers all do their jobs at range. Brig needs to be in your face and hitting you to both do damage and more importantly, heal. Now that her shield is made of tissue paper, she's not going to survive the approach to the enemy line. In a 1v1 scenario., almost every single other character outside of zen and Ana have a way to increase the gap between themselves and brig, preventing her from doing anything useful.
Her one gap closer can be completely disabled by just shooting at her until her shield breaks, which is like, a single clip from any given character at most, depending on the falloff. Her only other offensive ability is a boop that increases the gap between her and the enemy further. Which doesn't help anybody where her niche is concerned.
She basically only pairs well with other melee range characters like Reinhardt and... Maybe Doomfist? Although he's so damn mobile that he might as well be a ranged character where he is the bullet as well as the gun, she'd have difficulty keeping up with him.
Honestly, they could stand to push her shield value back up. She's completely worthless against a lot of different comps. She's a support who needs another support to keep her alive long enough to reach the enemy so she can do her job of being a support. Why would anyone choose that when you can do the same things she can but without having to run into a wall of dakka to do their jobs?
I think you're envisioning a trench war scenario where Brig has to advance through a hail of bullets to reach enemy territory. That's not really what she's for, she needs a tank to cover her like anybody else does. That might mean advancing with Rein, or it might mean diving with tanks who are disruptive enough to keep enemies from focusing fire on her. What she gets in exchange for the short range is enough durability to stay alive in close range brawls - 450hp, with half of it recharging very fast and the other half self-healing in combat, is nothing to sneeze at. If the enemy team is burning through that, they're giving your teammates a lot of time to kill them. If you're in a game that does operate like that where both teams are standing at range trading shots, definitely don't play Brig. Even before she was poorly suited to that.
She's also still quite good at anti-dive. She won't kill a diver who is being cautious to maintain range, but she will chase them off at least if her team isn't asleep. Dive characters have pretty short effective ranges themselves.
For all the game's faults it's been pretty clean on visual and easy to understand cues, Sigma in his current form takes a big dump on that.
Set distance I think. If you bounce them off the ground they explode closer to you, which can be useful for controlling the AoE.
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Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
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Not to mention that skinny shield is almost totally useless against aimable AoE attacks. In particular, it's dead easy as Ana to throw a grenade slightly to Brig's side, thus instantly taking away her one up-close survival advantage. And since Brig is likely going to be clustered with allies, you just dosed those allies who will also now not be getting any benefit from Brig's melee healing.
I think Brig is destined for a total rework. Other healers dole out more healing, more damage, or a lot more utility, and she doesn't even combo well with her own abilities. Ana's dart is immensely better for stun, Lucio's boop is both better and works with his mobility, Zen can't be killed out of his mass-heal ult, Moira and Baptiste both do mass healing quite easily, and Mercy can do loads of healing from safety AND contribute a lot with selective damage boosting AND has a bunch of mobility.
But I guess its gonna be one of those things where folks believe it until high level players show where she is applicable.
As is the only change I would give her is maybe bring her shield HP up to 250 from 200 and even then I don't think it that necessary.
As a support, NewBrig is pretty legit, still respectably beefy and really good at pocketing squishies. Not great in shield war scenarios, not a dps dunker, but actually better as a support than she used to be.
For the last week; she's got the highest winrate of all healers for Bronze-Diamond, is within .1% of highest at Masters, and is middle of the pack for GM. She's the least picked healer at all skill levels though, often by a large margin.
Those things in combination could be interpreted as a number of things, but I'd go with her having a specific niche that she excels at.
It sounds like the situation with 1.0 Symm who had an astronomical winrate, because she was really good in particular situations and people knew better than to pick her the rest of the time. I could see them making Brig a little more well-rounded at some point if that's a concern.
That's the problem though is yeah, you CAN advance with a tank and that would be preferable, but What do you do when the monkey leaps out and leaves you stranded there? Pretty much every other healer except zen can go in with a DPS or the other support ant you can generally expect a reasonable chance for both survival, and they always have their healing abilities at the ready without the need to be stuck in a knife fight, so why would I ever bring Brig? If you need a support and your aim is garbo, just bring Moira instead, at least her heal ball has range on it and she can ninja vanish if shit hits the fan.
Also, anyone else feel Zarya's bubbs are a little bit too bullshit? They shouldn't be able to cleanse EVERY status affect. Fire? Sure. Purple Drank? Alright. Freeze? Fair enough. But ALL three all the time?
Well gee thanks you just invalidated half or all of multiple characters kits. Normally the ability to invalidate peoples stuff is split up amongst multiple other characters, but sure fine, let's just make Zarya the Cleaning Sue Tank. It's especially painful if the other team has healers who are constantly on point, because the only answer to good healing is either grape juice Ana or a really really good sniper who can just click the healers heads constantly and I sure as hell don't get any of the latter, and now Zarya just says "fuck you" to the former.
See, I'm the opposite - after placements my Tank SR was well below my Damage/Healing, so I'm obsessed with improving it and playing nothing but Tank until all 3 are the same rank or I give up forever
I remember reaching high gold with my Rein/D.Va play back before Orisa was a thing, and I was pretty happy with that. I felt like I knew what I was doing in almost all situations.
It has become very obvious to me that both the character and map roster are now so deep that I really do not understand the way the game is played any more. It is such a different experience to the one I remember having, even if superficially a lot of the elements are the same.
Therefore, if I'm going to have to relearn everything anyway... I'd rather learn how to do something new than fight against all the old instincts I have. Tracer's gameplan seems like it has remained fairly stable though; take weird approaches, hit the enemy from the side/behind and focus fire supports first where possible.
I feel like if I can nail that I can feel like I'm making a positive contribution to my team and figure out the rest of the changes to the game whilst playing it, rather than trying to absorb a million youtube videos.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
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I haven't played comp in like 7 seasons and my SRs are all about 200 apart. You might just be very consistent.
I wonder if the perceived benefits of Role Queue could have been accomplished in a way that did not involve hard-coding 222 into the game. Because some of this change certainly has value.
This is such a big change I feel it should have been split into two - One change to deal with "I want to play certain heroes" and a different change to deal with "Teams should have a tank and a healer". The first issue in particular was a huge problem. I'd rather have a game with a bad comp but players that are engaged and happy, rather than a game with a full Meta comp but players that are irate and feel pressured into playing a particular hero.
I mean, it is probably too late now. Maybe they will learn from their mistakes.
I have also discovered that people are super quick to switch to Brig/Torb/Sym/McCree when you start really messing the team up as Tracer.
I've kind of had to revisit my 'try to main Tracer only' stance in that light. I can usually deal with one of those, but 2+ and I'm just not adding value any more.
Luckily it turns out that Soldier can outrange all those guys really nicely and he can also just pour damage into shields which is always useful.