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[US Foreign Policy] A Generation of War

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Posts

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Not content with having Pence stay at Trump’s country club and commute the three hours to Dublin every day, the White House deputy press secretary decided to use the fact that Pence *gasp* shared a meal with An Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and his same sex partner as “proof” that Pence is not in fact a raging homophobe.


    Translation: Yes, the idea of the Vice President dining with a gay man prompted internal discussion about the possibility of not doing so; but he's still willing to do it, so there!

    Nothing says “I’m not homophobic!” like demanding credit for sharing a meal with a gay couple.

  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    It’s also literally his job, he has to do it to get paid. It’s unbelievable that anyone floated this as a defence

    Prohass on
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Mayabird wrote: »


    Ben Jacobs is a senior political reporter for Jewish Insider, quoting a CNN senior national correspondant.

    Mike Pence is on a state visit to Ireland since Trump is too busy golfing. Instead of staying at, say, the US embassy in Dublin, a short walk or drive away from all the meetings he's attending, he's staying at Trump's Doonbeg gold resort three hours away, flying to Dublin and back on Air Force Two for those two days and nights, and also the American taxpayers are being charged for Pence's stay at the resort because of course there's grift on top of needless carbon emissions.

    I request that Ireland please nationalize the golf resort as soon as Trump is no longer in power.

    Washington Post reporter:

    Just one of those troublesome priests that someone needs to be rid of.

    If this were another administration I would think this is fine

    Like if Biden had family in Indonesia and Obama offered him use of his madrassa

    And charging the goverment standard rates for that stay?

    If Trump had let Pence stay for free wouldn’t that have been bribery of an elected official?

    No. Pence wasn't paying, the govt was. What it would actually have been is “not fraud”. I dont think you can get impermissible gifts from your boss.

    Also there is no way it was a suggestion. The denials are too specific. Trump 100% said “this is not a request its a command”

    More like 'Hey, while you're there, stay at my hotel. Wink.'

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Mayabird wrote: »


    Ben Jacobs is a senior political reporter for Jewish Insider, quoting a CNN senior national correspondant.

    Mike Pence is on a state visit to Ireland since Trump is too busy golfing. Instead of staying at, say, the US embassy in Dublin, a short walk or drive away from all the meetings he's attending, he's staying at Trump's Doonbeg gold resort three hours away, flying to Dublin and back on Air Force Two for those two days and nights, and also the American taxpayers are being charged for Pence's stay at the resort because of course there's grift on top of needless carbon emissions.

    I request that Ireland please nationalize the golf resort as soon as Trump is no longer in power.

    Washington Post reporter:

    Just one of those troublesome priests that someone needs to be rid of.

    If this were another administration I would think this is fine

    Like if Biden had family in Indonesia and Obama offered him use of his madrassa

    And charging the goverment standard rates for that stay?

    If Trump had let Pence stay for free wouldn’t that have been bribery of an elected official?

    No. Pence wasn't paying, the govt was. What it would actually have been is “not fraud”. I dont think you can get impermissible gifts from your boss.

    Also there is no way it was a suggestion. The denials are too specific. Trump 100% said “this is not a request its a command”

    More like 'Hey, while you're there, stay at my hotel. Wink.'

    He probably already booked the room and Pence knew hat as bad as it looks, it would look WAY worse if they were paying for the room and he were staying at the embassy or a hotel near his route. Trump's grift gets a free pass but actual fraud has sunk like a cabinet and a half.

    Hevach on
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    And now, of course, despite saying it ON THE RECORD, they're now denying that Trump ever even "suggested" it.


    "Pence officials said on the record that the president suggested Pence stay at his hotel. Later in the day Pence’s office called stories quoting those statements false and blamed the press."
    - Maggie Haberman is a NYT Reporter.

    Because lying just comes second nature to these fuckers.

    Additionally, it's been reported that because Pence is staying at Trump's resort, he's having a 4hr round trip commute.


    "VP Pence visited Ireland, but stayed 150 miles away from his meetings., at @realDonaldTrump ’s Doonbeg resort. That decision meant Pence spent 4 hrs in transit today, back and forth."
    - David Farenthold is a WaPo reporter.

    FINALLY, the alleged reason for not staying closer, and staying at a Trump Resort, is that it makes Secret Service security precautions easier.

    This, of course, IS NOT TRUE. Lying fucking liars.


    "NEW: Trump, Pence, & aides have repeatedly invoked the Secret Service when explaining why they stay in Trump resorts, arguing that it's easier for law enforcement to secure them. But Secret Service vets say that's not true, and can actually make it harder."
    - Natasha Bertrand is a Politico reporter.

    I fucking hate this Administration.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    And now we're on the countdown to Trump saying he did it and it was awesome. Worst time loop ever.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    There is no way that one of trump's properties is more easily secured then a motel 6.

    Gaddez on
  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    why would anyone outside of a DC studio believe he wasn't staying there to embezzle money

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Like, any other politician would have been sunk by this kind of blatent grifting of the american people or forced to forgive the payment but at this point the ethical bar for trump has been dropped so far it might actually be inside of the planetary core.

    Could a future presidency concievably sue trump to recover the fees?

  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    If Maggie Haberman is calling you out...

    Wait, am I confusing her with Dowd? Which is the republican megaphone journalist?

    Einzel on
  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    If Maggie Haberman is calling you out...

    Wait, am I confusing her with Dowd? Which is the republican megaphone journalist?

    I think the megaphone is Maggie.

    Dowd just like to nit pick Democrats to death with Republican talking points

  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There is no way that one of trump's properties is more easily secured then a motel 6.

    It makes it harder because if you are limited to only staying at trump resorts, your fucking enemies have a good idea of how to target you. Security in cases like these are super important, they dont even purchase groceries for the white house at the same place twice within something like 6 months.

    Plans for locations are tight knit until the last second (something like 24 hours?) for this reason. But if there's one trump resort in an area where an important official is visiting, holy shit is that a bad fucking idea to set as precedent.

    edit: Beyond this, imagine having to secure a 4 hour commute route.

    DiannaoChong on
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    There is a US embassy in Dublin. To claim that a hotel, even a high-class hotel, is more secure than that is...

  • BigPointyTeethBigPointyTeeth run away! run away! MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Like, any other politician would have been sunk by this kind of blatent grifting of the american people or forced to forgive the payment but at this point the ethical bar for trump has been dropped so far it might actually be inside of the planetary core.

    Could a future presidency concievably sue trump to recover the fees?

    I've been wondering about this, like, can the people who pay taxes to this country have a class action lawsuit against him for all our tax money he's pocketed?

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    edit: Beyond this, imagine having to secure a 4 hour commute route.
    I believe most of that commute is by helicopter.

    Still, as someone pointed out on Twitter, it shows how valuable Pence (in the unlikelihood it was his decision) considers his time to be.

    "Yeah, I'm wasting 4+ hours a day in transit instead of using that time for either diplomatic purposes, or to see the parts of my ancestral home, but that's a small price to pay for sucking up to the President.".

    There's been speculation about replacing Pence on the ticket in 2020. I can see Pence applauding Trump for making such a bold decision. He really is the most feckless politician in Washington, and with Paul Ryan gone, it's not even close.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There is no way that one of trump's properties is more easily secured then a motel 6.

    It makes it harder because if you are limited to only staying at trump resorts, your fucking enemies have a good idea of how to target you. Security in cases like these are super important, they dont even purchase groceries for the white house at the same place twice within something like 6 months.

    Plans for locations are tight knit until the last second (something like 24 hours?) for this reason. But if there's one trump resort in an area where an important official is visiting, holy shit is that a bad fucking idea to set as precedent.

    edit: Beyond this, imagine having to secure a 4 hour commute route.

    Like seriously, I'm looking at the interior shots of this hotel and while I'll admit they look gorgeous I'm seeing lots of wide open area's, big windows, and the whole thing looks like it was built horizontally as opposed to vertically meaning that it's far easier to get in and out of... but all of that is fucking aweful if you have security concerns; You'd be better off booking a floor of a three star hotel since it makes it harder to find you, has smaller windows, narrower hallways and less points of entry to watch.

    It's fucking absurd that they would try and argue that there is any merit to the security of this place.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Trump has been profiting since Day Negative off tax-payer funded stays at his properties by the secret service

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There is no way that one of trump's properties is more easily secured then a motel 6.

    Its probably the transit more than the location. 4 hours of travel a day makes it hard to secure that route.

    Edit: otherwise its probably reasonably easy to secure. The President tends to stay in the same place when they travel* and that makes security a lot easier for a variety of reasons. Trumps place would only be significantly less secure than the Embassy or the standard hotel if Trump does things specifically to make it less secure (though he probably does)

    *as an example i know where they stay when they come to seattle. And its pretty much always the same Hotel

    Goumindong on
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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    In unsurprising, yet still somehow surprising news, the United States government has...

    "The United States extends its condolences to the Mugabe family and the people of Zimbabwe as they mourn the passing of former President Robert Mugabe. We join the world in reflecting on his legacy in securing Zimbabwe’s independence."
    - Official twitter feed of the US Embassy in Zimbabwe.

    Because of course praising a murderous despot is the official policy of the US government. What, you thought it stopped with Putin? Or KJU? Or MBS? America has given up it's role as moral leader for now. And if they re-elect this asshole, possibly forever.

    Also, in the Congressional Investigations thread, @Desktop Hippie has posted how somehow, despite it being significantly more expensive to do so, DOD flights are rerouting through stagnating Trump resorts, boosting their profitability. Sure there's nothing untowards there.

  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There is no way that one of trump's properties is more easily secured then a motel 6.

    It makes it harder because if you are limited to only staying at trump resorts, your fucking enemies have a good idea of how to target you. Security in cases like these are super important, they dont even purchase groceries for the white house at the same place twice within something like 6 months.

    Plans for locations are tight knit until the last second (something like 24 hours?) for this reason. But if there's one trump resort in an area where an important official is visiting, holy shit is that a bad fucking idea to set as precedent.

    edit: Beyond this, imagine having to secure a 4 hour commute route.

    You’re not wrong that it makes it easier to predict, but I don’t think that predictability is a big factor.

    There are a lot of places where every visiting dignitary and head of state have one place to select from.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    In unsurprising, yet still somehow surprising news, the United States government has...

    "The United States extends its condolences to the Mugabe family and the people of Zimbabwe as they mourn the passing of former President Robert Mugabe. We join the world in reflecting on his legacy in securing Zimbabwe’s independence."
    - Official twitter feed of the US Embassy in Zimbabwe.

    Because of course praising a murderous despot is the official policy of the US government. What, you thought it stopped with Putin? Or KJU? Or MBS? America has given up it's role as moral leader for now. And if they re-elect this asshole, possibly forever.

    Also, in the Congressional Investigations thread, @Desktop Hippie has posted how somehow, despite it being significantly more expensive to do so, DOD flights are rerouting through stagnating Trump resorts, boosting their profitability. Sure there's nothing untowards there.
    It seems reasonable for our Zimbabwean embassy to release a statement like that, even though Mugabe wasn't a good guy. While not necessarily loved by his country's people, he was not universally loathed either.

    Compare the reactions of African state leaders:

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/world-leaders-react-robert-mugabe-death-190906061952752.html

    I think it is misguided to criticize this diplomatic statement and incorrect to ascribe the "Trump loves dictators" motivation to it.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I think it is misguided to criticize this diplomatic statement and incorrect to ascribe the "Trump loves dictators" motivation to it.
    While I get your point, I do think it could have been handled a little more diplomatically.

    And sure, if this had gone out under any other President, I probably wouldn't give a shit. And it probably shouldn't be a big story.

    But frankly I'm sick of Trump being judged on a different scale. While I don’t expect anything from him, I also refuse to accept Trump’s reality as the new "normal".

    Given his propensity with siding with dictators, and denigrating leaders of democracies, there should definitely have been more thought put into this, is all.

  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I think it is misguided to criticize this diplomatic statement and incorrect to ascribe the "Trump loves dictators" motivation to it.
    While I get your point, I do think it could have been handled a little more diplomatically.

    And sure, if this had gone out under any other President, I probably wouldn't give a shit. And it probably shouldn't be a big story.

    But frankly I'm sick of Trump being judged on a different scale. While I don’t expect anything from him, I also refuse to accept Trump’s reality as the new "normal".

    Given his propensity with siding with dictators, and denigrating leaders of democracies, there should definitely have been more thought put into this, is all.
    "Reflecting on his legacy" and "extending condolences" isn't effusive praise. Other African states were far more positive in their statements. So far the only remotely critical statement I can find is from the UK government. Their reaction was mixed, but the UK has a unique relationship with Zimbabwe as as a result of their former role as colonial oppressor which should be kept in mind when assessing their statements.

    Is it likely that this even had much to do with Trump? My assumption would be that the embassy drafted the statement and that if Washington itself was involved it would only be in the form of an approval. The ambassador was appointed by Trump, but was formerly ambassador to Peru under Obama, so it's not like he's a Trump toadie or whatever.

    I agree that there shouldn't be a more forgiving scale for the Trump admin, but this seems in line with normal diplomacy to me; given the reactions of African leaders I actually think a more negative statement would have been a faux pas.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Had that exact statement been released under Obama I would assume that last line meant "He was a murderous dictator, the world should remember that." My brain just won't accept that reading with Trump as president, though.

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Was the tweet deleted? I saw it earlier, but not this time in the thread.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »

    The update response is much more measured.

    “We extend our condolences to those mourning the loss of former Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe. Robert Mugabe helped liberate Zimbabwe, but his human rights abuses and gross economic mismanagement impoverished millions and betrayed his people’s hopes for their nation,” the agency said. “We continue to support the aspirations of the Zimbabwean people for a better, more prosperous future.”

    That's what I would have wanted in the first place. Condolences for the people grieving, acknowledgement of his both his achievement and his crimes, best wishes for the country's future.

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Uh.... What?


    Donald Trump: Unbeknownst to almost everyone, the major Taliban leaders and, separately, the President of Afghanistan, were going to secretly meet with me at Camp David on Sunday. They were coming to the United States tonight. Unfortunately, in order to build false leverage, they admitted to..
    ....an attack in Kabul that killed one of our great great soldiers, and 11 other people. I immediately cancelled the meeting and called off peace negotiations. What kind of people would kill so many in order to seemingly strengthen their bargaining position? They didn’t, they....
    ....only made it worse! If they cannot agree to a ceasefire during these very important peace talks, and would even kill 12 innocent people, then they probably don’t have the power to negotiate a meaningful agreement anyway. How many more decades are they willing to fight?

    Well... not "unbeknownst" anymore. What the hell. Sure. Yeah, people in glass bargaining houses that are dumb as fuck about bargaining shouldn't be throwing any stones.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    I guess they didn't send him a giant letter?

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Over/under on that being entirely made up as an excuse for why Afghanistan is still a thing?

  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I have trouble seeing a major Taliban leader flying commercial, I have the same amount of trouble seeing him meet up with and get on a US military aircraft, which are the two options probably.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Fucking hell.

    This is like the Iran rocket explosion and him tweeting out classified (until the moment he hit "send" with his stubby fingers) imagery.

    YOU DON'T SPILL SECRETS JUST TO BE A BIG SHOT, NUMBNUT!

    Fine. Cancel the meeting. That's fair enough. Maybe. Whatever.

    But you've completely undercut the bargaining position of BOTH leaders, at least one of which had no fucking idea this was going to happen.

    But you've completely undercut your own position. The reason people seek secret meetings is that they need to negotiate without looking like they're weak. You've just announced to the world you'll throw them under the bus if you get pissy.

    What a fucking toddler. With nukes. FUCK!

  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Yeah, I'm sure all the major Taliban leaders would happily travel to America, in full trust that they wouldn't be seized and sent to rot in Guantanamo.

    rahkeesh2000 on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    I have trouble seeing a major Taliban leader flying commercial, I have the same amount of trouble seeing him meet up with and get on a US military aircraft, which are the two options probably.

    It's not outside of the realm of possibility, but I'd need a reliable source in order to believe it.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    I have trouble seeing a major Taliban leader flying commercial, I have the same amount of trouble seeing him meet up with and get on a US military aircraft, which are the two options probably.

    It's not outside of the realm of possibility, but I'd need a reliable source in order to believe it.

    Is possible it's handled through an ally. France? Maybe some kind of limited diplomatic immunity?

    Even if it's all made up, my point with Trump blowing any chance of trying for a secret summit in the future, still goes out the window, because toddler gotta tweet.

    The single biggest gift TwitterJack could give the world, is banning that fucker's accounts.

  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    This has always been how he negotiates: either you give him what he wants, or he does his toddler impression and throws everyone under the bus and tries to make things look like it's not his fault things went south.

    People die in Afghanistan every fucking day. This was just an easy copout to throw everyone involved but him to the wolves so he could try and look super strong. He doesn't care who looks terrible or the amount of destruction he's leaving in his wake- as long as he gets to look like a super-great deal maker who's perfect and nothing is ever his fault, he doesn't care who he betrays, and we all know he's happy throwing CIA and NSA ops under the bus to soothe his fragile ego. I imagine there are a lot of members of the IC who are facepalming at him just outing the fact we've had people talking to these people and trying to end the Afghani conflict so other countries will keep this shit stirred up.

    steam_sig.png
    I can has cheezburger, yes?
  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    By all accounts Trump hates Camp David.

    I doubt any meeting was scheduled.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    By all accounts Trump hates Camp David.

    I doubt any meeting was scheduled.

    Yeah if he scheduled a summit it would be somewhere he owned so he could profit off of it.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Uh.... What?


    Donald Trump: Unbeknownst to almost everyone, the major Taliban leaders and, separately, the President of Afghanistan, were going to secretly meet with me at Camp David on Sunday. They were coming to the United States tonight. Unfortunately, in order to build false leverage, they admitted to..
    ....an attack in Kabul that killed one of our great great soldiers, and 11 other people. I immediately cancelled the meeting and called off peace negotiations. What kind of people would kill so many in order to seemingly strengthen their bargaining position? They didn’t, they....
    ....only made it worse! If they cannot agree to a ceasefire during these very important peace talks, and would even kill 12 innocent people, then they probably don’t have the power to negotiate a meaningful agreement anyway. How many more decades are they willing to fight?

    Well... not "unbeknownst" anymore. What the hell. Sure. Yeah, people in glass bargaining houses that are dumb as fuck about bargaining shouldn't be throwing any stones.
    Wait, so is he canceling the negotiation process as a whole? Because of the 7382nd Taliban attack on Kabul? I don't get it.

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    If he’s lying then he just looks like even more of an idiot to all parties involved.

This discussion has been closed.