Hey house thread, I'm back once again being the world's worst homeowner! I am very terrible at fixing things myself and am now finally going to seek out some like how to do basic housework stuff. But in the meantime, can someone talk to me about...light switches?
The light switch in our living room broke. It was one of those flat, paddle kind of ones (not the switch), and I noticed yesterday when I pressed it that it kind of popped off it's hinge. I hit it again and nothing happened. So I went downstairs and shut off the breakers (NONE of our breakers are labeled right, so I kept calling up to my wife asking if the stuff plugged in was turning off until we found it), and then unscrewed it. I put it all back together again, turned the breakers back on, and still nothing. The paddle now felt floppy, no "click", so I figured it was broken. Thankfully, I had a back-up light switch I bought and never installed, so I was all set.
I went and killed the breaker and took the old switch out. The wiring (the "normal" from what Ive read, something like a red cable, a green cable, a white cable and 2 black ones...I think there was only 4, but it was nothing unusual) was going into a black box on the back of the switch, which was screwed shut with those triangle "safety screws". I don't have a screwdriver that can unscrew those, so I was frustrated. I kept trying ways to get in and just couldn't.
Eventually, I was like, well maybe I can fix this, because its getting dark and I want to be able to turn the lights on. So in the center of the switch, now that the paddle and housing were removed, there was a hole (that the paddle went into), and I thought maybe a piece of plastic or something broke off in there and I can fish it out and glue it back on or something. So I stuck the screwdriver in the hole.
Then I thought I was dead.
The brightest white flash I have ever seen, and the loudest pop I have ever heard, went off in my face. The screwdriver flew across the room. I have NO IDEA how I wasn't electrocuted. The end of the screwdriver MELTED. It was insane.
So at this point, I'm terrified, because I THOUGHT THE POWER WAS OFF THERE. Nothing in the living room is on at all! So my wife was mad and said we need to call our electrician.
I called this morning and he basically said he's too busy to come to install a light switch, and its not worth the trip for such a small job.
So now I either need to learn to live by candle light or fucking learn how to fix something.
Any recommendations on what I can do or buy? I'm going to need that safety screwdriver, and I'm going to pick up that doohickey that tells if a wire is live...but short of just turning every single breaker off when I do this, is there anything I should know?
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
Even if the supply is off, you can have a residual voltage differential between the wires, which is probably how you electrocuted yourself. Also if it's an old house sometimes the wiring is just dodgy. If you're worried, the safest way to do any kind of home wiring is to use insulating gloves to handle everything, and try not to short connections between wires (which is probably what happened when you shoved the screwdriver in), because that can damage anything still plugged into the same circuit.
It definitely sounds like something mechanical broke inside the switch, the good news is that there really aren't that many ways to wire up a light switch so once you get the box off the back you should be able to copy the layout to a new switch.
It sounds like it's a two-way switch based on the wiring so even if that switch is off there could be voltage.
Buy a volt or multi-meter, I've seen the contactless pen units fail and your life is worth the extra cost of a reliable tester.
Test all possible wiring solutions to ground before working on something, trusting the person before you did everything right can be costly.
The actual wiring is very easy and if you can compare what was there to what you have new then you probably don't even need anything past that.
Gloves work, but I always just test and re-test wiring when working on home wiring and never touch anything energized. (gloves to me are for when I'm working with certain DC sources and it has to be hot work)
Does anyone have any experience with Shopvacs? I think I clogged mine good but its in like the top part, like where the motor is somehow.
This is almost certainly either the filter being full of crap and not giving good airflow anymore, or something lodged in the intake port where the hose attaches or the actual base of the hose (this is 99% of shopvac blockages).
Take the hose off and feel around in there to see if you can dislodge it by hand. If you were vaccing something like soft dirt you may need to manually clean it out as well. If you can't find any obstruction by hand, on most shopvacs you can attach the hose to the exhaust port and turn it into a blower, which will often dislodge stuff stuck in the hose itself.
Just poke and prod at it for a bit basically. Shopvacs are built to be pretty hard to hurt unless you do something obviously stupid like pry open the motor, so don't worry about damaging it.
So I went downstairs and shut off the breakers (NONE of our breakers are labeled right, so I kept calling up to my wife asking if the stuff plugged in was turning off until we found it), and then unscrewed it.
So, it's very possible that your outlets and ceiling lights are on two separate breakers, even if they're in the same room. What Kadith and Tynic said is true as well. So yes, use a tester (multi-meter).
As someone with old, unlabeled circuits feel free to take the cowards way out with me sometimes and just shut everything off.
I am really surprised that there were anti-tamper screws holding the AC wiring in. There weren't other screws on the sides for releasing the wires?
I do not recommend this, but I have known electricians that would 'find' the right breaker to turn off for the circuit by intentionally shorting that circuit. . .
So I went downstairs and shut off the breakers (NONE of our breakers are labeled right, so I kept calling up to my wife asking if the stuff plugged in was turning off until we found it), and then unscrewed it.
So, it's very possible that your outlets and ceiling lights are on two separate breakers, even if they're in the same room. What Kadith and Tynic said is true as well. So yes, use a tester (multi-meter).
As someone with old, unlabeled circuits feel free to take the cowards way out with me sometimes and just shut everything off.
I am really surprised that there were anti-tamper screws holding the AC wiring in. There weren't other screws on the sides for releasing the wires?
I do not recommend this, but I have known electricians that would 'find' the right breaker to turn off for the circuit by intentionally shorting that circuit. . .
100% on this. I have an old building and the breakers are not labeled at all. There's definitely a lot of pass through wires in certain junction boxes so I always turn off the mains whenever I need to do some electrical work. Also having a multi meter on hand is also always a good idea, they are only like $25 and can save your life.
As someone with old, unlabeled circuits feel free to take the cowards way out with me sometimes and just shut everything off.
My house was re-wired ten years ago and has a fully labelled consumer unit under the stairs with individual breakers for lights, sockets, the outhouses, all that jazz. I still hit the master breaker whenever I'm doing anything electrical
Get a head torch if you're doing anything at night and play it safe. You only get one life
The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
edited September 2019
All the task lighting in my kitchen has been shot for about 3 years, unless I get up on a stool and jiggle the fixture wires so they work for anywhere from a few minutes to a few days.
The wires are all frayed and you have to try and form a connection with them live to tell if they're working. It's the kind of thing I only do when I know there's another adult around who can dial emergency services.
So basically I work in the dark all winter until I'm tired of risking fingers on knives then take my life in my hands for a chance for a few minutes of being able to see what I'm doing. Except even that mostly doesn't work any more, so these days I rarely bother, which is... I guess safer, but also basically even more sucky because now I can't even do anything about my shitty work conditions.
And there's now not even any point in fixing it because next Winter I'm not going to be in this kitchen, so now it's the problem of whoever buys this place in the Summer, I guess.
I tell you this though, I am definitely avoiding using this same type of light fitting in the new house because the failure rate on these has been about 30%
EDIT: I should probably also mention I have asked my wife to get an electrician through at the start of Winter every year for the last three years, but she doesn't cook so it's not a priority for her so she kind of says yes and then by the time nothing happens it's Spring and keep thinking "fuck it, we're not going to be in this house next Winter" and then the pattern repeats.
WELP I was going to try replacing two outlets in my apartment for the first time, but this thread has me spooked.
As long as you cut the power (and then test the wires) then changing sockets / switches is the easiest thing you can do. Take a picture of what it looks like before-hand and just put the wires back where they came from. Make sure all the connections are tight (but not tight-enough that you shatter any old or brittle copper that you might have) and then test with a sacrificial lamp or something once you get the power back on
It feels good to do something yourself that would cost you £100+ in call-out fees / labour for
The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
All the task lighting in my kitchen has been shot for about 3 years, unless I get up on a stool and jiggle the fixture wires so they work for anywhere from a few minutes to a few days.
The wires are all frayed and you have to try and form a connection with them live to tell if they're working. It's the kind of thing I only do when I know there's another adult around who can dial emergency services.
So basically I work in the dark all winter until I'm tired of risking fingers on knives then take my life in my hands for a chance for a few minutes of being able to see what I'm doing. Except even that mostly doesn't work any more, so these days I rarely bother, which is... I guess safer, but also basically even more sucky because now I can't even do anything about my shitty work conditions.
And there's now not even any point in fixing it because next Winter I'm not going to be in this kitchen, so now it's the problem of whoever buys this place in the Summer, I guess.
I tell you this though, I am definitely avoiding using this same type of light fitting in the new house because the failure rate on these has been about 30%
EDIT: I should probably also mention I have asked my wife to get an electrician through at the start of Winter every year for the last three years, but she doesn't cook so it's not a priority for her so she kind of says yes and then by the time nothing happens it's Spring and keep thinking "fuck it, we're not going to be in this house next Winter" and then the pattern repeats.
It's bullshit how lax this country is with it's electrical regulations. I'm actually really surprised more people haven't died here in Auckland with all the requirements to install house insulation.
We're renting between 10-20 houses in Auckland through my work, and any time there is a sleepout involved, the wiring is dodgy as fuck!
WELP I was going to try replacing two outlets in my apartment for the first time, but this thread has me spooked.
Ah you got some of those loose apartment outlets that haven't been replaced in 40 years? Get a voltage tester and cut the power, they're pretty easy to DIY.
Snag some insulated gloves too if you're super worried. A lot of the idiots who kill/hurt themselves literally do none of these steps because they've worked with it all their lives and become complacent.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Many thanks to everyone in here - I took all your advice and bought a little kit with the detector and a plug that you can use on outlets that tells you if it's wired correctly.
I took the cowards way and turned off every breaker, then turned them back on and held the detector to the switch to find which one. "Bedroom" is our living room lights apparently! (And "Living Room" is JUST the outlets). Re-wiring the actual switch was easy once I accepted I would not be electrocuted and actually got in there. A lot of worried poking with things before that first deep breath and touch of the wires.
It was great and made me feel really good to do it myself! Thanks again!
mxmarks on
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
Yeah I've heard stories about people who cut the power and got shocked anyway because either there was another set of breakers they didn't know about, or even more crazy, someone was trying to steal electricity from another unit.
So yeah, use the voltage tester even after you cut the power just to be sure.
DisruptedCapitalist on
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
And a lot the time the labels arent 100% accurate. Eg. Maybe you wanna cut power to the living room outpets. But the outlet in the corner that you wanna work on was added later and is grouped with the bedroom switch because it was easier at the time.
For us we have a combined kitchen and dining area but they're still on different switches. It wouldnt be a problem if we could remember which were which. But we usually just turn off both rather than work out whether an outlet is a kitchen or a dining room outlet.
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JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
I still have no idea what half my breakers do. I tried to label them all when I was installing my thermostat, and just ended up throwing the master switch because half of them didn't seem to turn anything off.
I still have no idea what half my breakers do. I tried to label them all when I was installing my thermostat, and just ended up throwing the master switch because half of them didn't seem to turn anything off.
Oh, shit. I just realized that I might have a secret underground bunker wired into my house.
WELP I was going to try replacing two outlets in my apartment for the first time, but this thread has me spooked.
Ah you got some of those loose apartment outlets that haven't been replaced in 40 years? Get a voltage tester and cut the power, they're pretty easy to DIY.
Snag some insulated gloves too if you're super worried. A lot of the idiots who kill/hurt themselves literally do none of these steps because they've worked with it all their lives and become complacent.
Those are not insulated gloves
unless they're linemen gloves any insulation is not going to be designed to protect you from shock.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I still have no idea what half my breakers do. I tried to label them all when I was installing my thermostat, and just ended up throwing the master switch because half of them didn't seem to turn anything off.
Oh, shit. I just realized that I might have a secret underground bunker wired into my house.
turn off the breakers but leave the master on, see if the meter still moves! Then start hunting for the trap door to the neighbors weed farm.
That house doesn't seem to have a restroom on the groundfloor that is reachable without going outside? In addition to that the 4 upstairs bedrooms share a single bathroom.
edit: That is not how you layout ground plans! the 1st floor plan is turned 180°
Hi house thread. My partner and I are currently in the act of trying to buy our forever dream home and we think we found it on the weekend so we are both basically crawling out of our skin with anticipation.
Now all we have to do is get our current house ready to sell over the course of a few days. Mucho stresso.
Also, while I know we're in an extremely privileged position to be doing so, looking at potential dream houses is about the most adult fun I think I've ever had. We looked at a spot out in the country yesterday that was literally built on the edge of a 150 foot cliff looking out onto the river valley and it was about the most breathtaking thing I've ever seen. The place was a total fixer-upper though (it even had a dilapidated indoor pool). I seriously hope some sort of uber successful author buys that place some day. Look at those views! https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/20948807/4-0-bedroom-single-family-house-205-carlisle-road-douglas
Posts
The light switch in our living room broke. It was one of those flat, paddle kind of ones (not the switch), and I noticed yesterday when I pressed it that it kind of popped off it's hinge. I hit it again and nothing happened. So I went downstairs and shut off the breakers (NONE of our breakers are labeled right, so I kept calling up to my wife asking if the stuff plugged in was turning off until we found it), and then unscrewed it. I put it all back together again, turned the breakers back on, and still nothing. The paddle now felt floppy, no "click", so I figured it was broken. Thankfully, I had a back-up light switch I bought and never installed, so I was all set.
I went and killed the breaker and took the old switch out. The wiring (the "normal" from what Ive read, something like a red cable, a green cable, a white cable and 2 black ones...I think there was only 4, but it was nothing unusual) was going into a black box on the back of the switch, which was screwed shut with those triangle "safety screws". I don't have a screwdriver that can unscrew those, so I was frustrated. I kept trying ways to get in and just couldn't.
Eventually, I was like, well maybe I can fix this, because its getting dark and I want to be able to turn the lights on. So in the center of the switch, now that the paddle and housing were removed, there was a hole (that the paddle went into), and I thought maybe a piece of plastic or something broke off in there and I can fish it out and glue it back on or something. So I stuck the screwdriver in the hole.
Then I thought I was dead.
The brightest white flash I have ever seen, and the loudest pop I have ever heard, went off in my face. The screwdriver flew across the room. I have NO IDEA how I wasn't electrocuted. The end of the screwdriver MELTED. It was insane.
So at this point, I'm terrified, because I THOUGHT THE POWER WAS OFF THERE. Nothing in the living room is on at all! So my wife was mad and said we need to call our electrician.
I called this morning and he basically said he's too busy to come to install a light switch, and its not worth the trip for such a small job.
So now I either need to learn to live by candle light or fucking learn how to fix something.
Any recommendations on what I can do or buy? I'm going to need that safety screwdriver, and I'm going to pick up that doohickey that tells if a wire is live...but short of just turning every single breaker off when I do this, is there anything I should know?
It definitely sounds like something mechanical broke inside the switch, the good news is that there really aren't that many ways to wire up a light switch so once you get the box off the back you should be able to copy the layout to a new switch.
Buy a volt or multi-meter, I've seen the contactless pen units fail and your life is worth the extra cost of a reliable tester.
Test all possible wiring solutions to ground before working on something, trusting the person before you did everything right can be costly.
The actual wiring is very easy and if you can compare what was there to what you have new then you probably don't even need anything past that.
Gloves work, but I always just test and re-test wiring when working on home wiring and never touch anything energized. (gloves to me are for when I'm working with certain DC sources and it has to be hot work)
This is almost certainly either the filter being full of crap and not giving good airflow anymore, or something lodged in the intake port where the hose attaches or the actual base of the hose (this is 99% of shopvac blockages).
Take the hose off and feel around in there to see if you can dislodge it by hand. If you were vaccing something like soft dirt you may need to manually clean it out as well. If you can't find any obstruction by hand, on most shopvacs you can attach the hose to the exhaust port and turn it into a blower, which will often dislodge stuff stuck in the hose itself.
Just poke and prod at it for a bit basically. Shopvacs are built to be pretty hard to hurt unless you do something obviously stupid like pry open the motor, so don't worry about damaging it.
So, it's very possible that your outlets and ceiling lights are on two separate breakers, even if they're in the same room. What Kadith and Tynic said is true as well. So yes, use a tester (multi-meter).
As someone with old, unlabeled circuits feel free to take the cowards way out with me sometimes and just shut everything off.
I am really surprised that there were anti-tamper screws holding the AC wiring in. There weren't other screws on the sides for releasing the wires?
I do not recommend this, but I have known electricians that would 'find' the right breaker to turn off for the circuit by intentionally shorting that circuit. . .
100% on this. I have an old building and the breakers are not labeled at all. There's definitely a lot of pass through wires in certain junction boxes so I always turn off the mains whenever I need to do some electrical work. Also having a multi meter on hand is also always a good idea, they are only like $25 and can save your life.
My house was re-wired ten years ago and has a fully labelled consumer unit under the stairs with individual breakers for lights, sockets, the outhouses, all that jazz. I still hit the master breaker whenever I'm doing anything electrical
Get a head torch if you're doing anything at night and play it safe. You only get one life
The wires are all frayed and you have to try and form a connection with them live to tell if they're working. It's the kind of thing I only do when I know there's another adult around who can dial emergency services.
So basically I work in the dark all winter until I'm tired of risking fingers on knives then take my life in my hands for a chance for a few minutes of being able to see what I'm doing. Except even that mostly doesn't work any more, so these days I rarely bother, which is... I guess safer, but also basically even more sucky because now I can't even do anything about my shitty work conditions.
And there's now not even any point in fixing it because next Winter I'm not going to be in this kitchen, so now it's the problem of whoever buys this place in the Summer, I guess.
I tell you this though, I am definitely avoiding using this same type of light fitting in the new house because the failure rate on these has been about 30%
EDIT: I should probably also mention I have asked my wife to get an electrician through at the start of Winter every year for the last three years, but she doesn't cook so it's not a priority for her so she kind of says yes and then by the time nothing happens it's Spring and keep thinking "fuck it, we're not going to be in this house next Winter" and then the pattern repeats.
As long as you cut the power (and then test the wires) then changing sockets / switches is the easiest thing you can do. Take a picture of what it looks like before-hand and just put the wires back where they came from. Make sure all the connections are tight (but not tight-enough that you shatter any old or brittle copper that you might have) and then test with a sacrificial lamp or something once you get the power back on
It feels good to do something yourself that would cost you £100+ in call-out fees / labour for
It's bullshit how lax this country is with it's electrical regulations. I'm actually really surprised more people haven't died here in Auckland with all the requirements to install house insulation.
We're renting between 10-20 houses in Auckland through my work, and any time there is a sleepout involved, the wiring is dodgy as fuck!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
Ah you got some of those loose apartment outlets that haven't been replaced in 40 years? Get a voltage tester and cut the power, they're pretty easy to DIY.
Snag some insulated gloves too if you're super worried. A lot of the idiots who kill/hurt themselves literally do none of these steps because they've worked with it all their lives and become complacent.
Many thanks to everyone in here - I took all your advice and bought a little kit with the detector and a plug that you can use on outlets that tells you if it's wired correctly.
I took the cowards way and turned off every breaker, then turned them back on and held the detector to the switch to find which one. "Bedroom" is our living room lights apparently! (And "Living Room" is JUST the outlets). Re-wiring the actual switch was easy once I accepted I would not be electrocuted and actually got in there. A lot of worried poking with things before that first deep breath and touch of the wires.
It was great and made me feel really good to do it myself! Thanks again!
So yeah, use the voltage tester even after you cut the power just to be sure.
For us we have a combined kitchen and dining area but they're still on different switches. It wouldnt be a problem if we could remember which were which. But we usually just turn off both rather than work out whether an outlet is a kitchen or a dining room outlet.
Oh, shit. I just realized that I might have a secret underground bunker wired into my house.
Those are not insulated gloves
unless they're linemen gloves any insulation is not going to be designed to protect you from shock.
turn off the breakers but leave the master on, see if the meter still moves! Then start hunting for the trap door to the neighbors weed farm.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
https://m.realestate.com.au/property-house-sa-magill-131914778
It's not so bad, it just has a lot of charac... oh... oh no.
So what’s the over-under on consummated human sacrifices?
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Ooof shit yeah, that needs some serious renovations. I'd love that Buick Riviera in the carport though!
Those wicker dummies made me drop my phone on to my face in shock
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
Honestly, it's not the most shocking thing I've seen in someone's house out that way.
...
... Oh you live up near Salem, right? Yeah, ok
edit: That is not how you layout ground plans! the 1st floor plan is turned 180°
Now all we have to do is get our current house ready to sell over the course of a few days. Mucho stresso.
Also, while I know we're in an extremely privileged position to be doing so, looking at potential dream houses is about the most adult fun I think I've ever had. We looked at a spot out in the country yesterday that was literally built on the edge of a 150 foot cliff looking out onto the river valley and it was about the most breathtaking thing I've ever seen. The place was a total fixer-upper though (it even had a dilapidated indoor pool). I seriously hope some sort of uber successful author buys that place some day. Look at those views! https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/20948807/4-0-bedroom-single-family-house-205-carlisle-road-douglas
Just think positive. If you'd live there you'd be cleaning up pollen and seeds from those birch trees all year round.