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[WoW Classic] More full servers than Live.

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Posts

  • PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    My friend and I got the Mallet of Zul'farak and it was kind of great.

    We realized that it was gonna be tough when we saw that the orange level elite enemy that drops the Sacred Mallet was accompanied by another orange level elite enemy. We died on our first attempt, but then we came up with the plan of my friend switching his demon to succubus and using the seduce ability to take one of the elites out of the fight and just focus on the one that drops the mallet.

    We realized it was gonna be very tough when we got to the area where you upgrade the mallet and saw that everything in the area was elite. We had killed the first few enemies and were trying to come up with a plan on how to proceed when suddenly a group of three people comes barging through on mounts, pulling all the enemies with them. It was clearly what we needed and we followed them to the top of Jintha'Alor. Then it seems like the other group must have a quest in the area, since they're killing enemies up there. So my friend and I leave them to head over to the altar. We sneak past a patrolling enemy and we can see the altar. That's great!

    Except then we get murdered by wolves.

    My friend gave me soul stone, so I can resurrect on the spot, but I'm too close to the wolves and I'd be attacked immediately if I resurrect. So we're sitting there for a bit and my friend is talking about taking resurrection sickness and we can try getting the mallet later. After waiting a couple of minutes the group from before comes over to the altar and start fighting the enemies. They don't pull the wolves threatening me, but I still saw my chance. I resurrect and immediately activate Nifty Stopwatch to run fast. The wolves are chasing me and I lead them over to the other group of players. They do some AOEs and the wolves are no longer on me. I start upgrading the mallet right next to the fighting and I am thankful it's only a 2 second cast time.

    I die before I can get away, but it doesn't matter. I have the Mallet of Zul'farak.

    We both do the corpse run and the other group is long gone. We find safe spots to res and now we're talking about my friend getting the mallet too. Then he brings up the idea of using me as bait while he goes in and gets the mallet. I cast Power Word: Shield on myself, mount up and pull all the enemies away from the altar. I didn't quite get away alive, but I did make it to the outskirts of the area before getting knocked off my mount and murdered.

  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Leveling in Classic is an actual part of the game. It's an actual adventure again.

    I absolutely agree. I have been really enjoying doing quests, even though they get tedious as fuck sometimes with travel time. But there is something somewhat enjoyable about having to read the quest and figure out where I am going.

    I do sometimes dislike it because it is too vague or I'm limited on time but in general I very much enjoy it.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Leveling in Classic is an actual part of the game. It's an actual adventure again.

    I absolutely agree. I have been really enjoying doing quests, even though they get tedious as fuck sometimes with travel time. But there is something somewhat enjoyable about having to read the quest and figure out where I am going.

    I do sometimes dislike it because it is too vague or I'm limited on time but in general I very much enjoy it.

    What I hate about some of the quests is getting the drops is like a simple grind gives way to a genocide

  • MillMill Registered User regular
    I was referring more to how vanilla, TBC and Wrath gave the player some incentive to use the abilities they were given. I'll agree that they did encourage some bad play styles, but at least people had a better idea of what tools they had because vanilla & TBC definitely had times where the player was forced to use their tools to get out of bad spots in leveling or attempt to. Being aware an ability exists and somewhat familiar with what it does, is really the first step to being able to figure out how to deal with some mechanics without having to always consult a guide for specific boss fights. Using paladins for example, I wouldn't be surprised if there were numerous players that started playing after Cata, that didn't understand they had an ability called hand of freedom that removes snares & roots and makes one immune to those for it's duration because they don't do anything where the ability is needed.

    I'll be the first to say that vanilla has a shit ton of warts. Having leveled a paladin in TBC and being aware there aren't a ton of differences between TBC ret and vanilla ret, I'd say unless someone wants to play holy and level by instances or running in groups for questing. It's probably best to not pick the class up for solo play because good is the seal system fuck awful.

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I’m still wondering if this feral guide has you doing 100% pummeler uptime. Cuz that is...a lot of pummelers.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Probably. On the upside at least they aren't suggesting that people stock up on either dark runes or demonic runes. Given that the best setup requires using a lvl 40 hat that makes constant form shifting part of the rotation, mana probably can be an issue.

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    whatever classic doesn't teach you, I don't think people appreciate how much BFA (or basically anything since WoD) does NOT teach you even moreso

    there's something to be said for the value of TIME when it comes to learning, and one thing classic does (perhaps overdoes) is force you to swish around those abilities in your head and at least piece together what it is exactly your character is meant to do as you march to 60.

    this is important if you've NEVER PLAYED AN MMORPG before, which is how WoW was designed.

    if you've never seen someone play who has literally never used a mouse and keyboard to play a game before, then you are not appreciating why classic works the way it does, and how much value there is in the low-and-slow methodology. this is why WoW blew everything else away. it was welcoming to everyone.


    classic's biggest failing in terms of teaching is that's just way too easy to get carried. you can easily not learn how to interrupt by simply playing with a friend who happens to know how to. and then by raiding, where it's easy to get lost in a crowd of 40 dudes, or by playing a hunter, where you get to ignore every mechanic the game until your first BRD

    Jasconius on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Anyone still need Deadmines? I'd like to organize a guild run tomorrow during US prime if anyone still needs it (or just wants to run it). I'll be tanking.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    A level 24 paladin decided to attack me on my level 24 shaman. That paladin was laughably easy to kill.

    I then dropped a level 19 warlock.

    Contested zones are fun. So far no campers which is nice since a warrior earlier 1 shot. Just killed a bunch of us and then started fishing as we revived and got back to questing.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    whatever classic doesn't teach you, I don't think people appreciate how much BFA (or basically anything since WoD) does NOT teach you even moreso

    there's something to be said for the value of TIME when it comes to learning, and one thing classic does (perhaps overdoes) is force you to swish around those abilities in your head and at least piece together what it is exactly your character is meant to do as you march to 60.

    this is important if you've NEVER PLAYED AN MMORPG before, which is how WoW was designed.

    if you've never seen someone play who has literally never used a mouse and keyboard to play a game before, then you are not appreciating why classic works the way it does, and how much value there is in the low-and-slow methodology. this is why WoW blew everything else away. it was welcoming to everyone.


    classic's biggest failing in terms of teaching is that's just way too easy to get carried. you can easily not learn how to interrupt by simply playing with a friend who happens to know how to. and then by raiding, where it's easy to get lost in a crowd of 40 dudes, or by playing a hunter, where you get to ignore every mechanic the game until your first BRD

    retail teaches someone who's never played a video game how to play... worse than classic... because classic makes it harder to figure out the intended way to play your class? is that so

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    because retail levelling doesn't punish you if you do things badly wrong, while classic will.

  • ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User regular
    chan chan has only played retail for like two years and grouping with her on classic i keep having to remind her about managing aggro with her mage and not pulling multiples and trying to tank them

    it’s funny because she gets the idea, she’s just so used to not having to think about that

    also last night i accidentally requested a duel with her when i meant to click follow and she of course accepted like haha i’ll show you

    then when she starting casting a long cast time spell i interrupted it with shield bash and she was like

    WTF DID YOU DO

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    Mage can at least cast a frost or fire spell after being shield bashed, even if it's not what you're specced into.

    As the healer, if I get shield bashed I'm completely useless for 6 seconds.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I absolutely buy the Tigole/Furor conspiracy theories because the less control they had over the game the more hybrid classes were allowed to actually play their fuckin role.

    the tail end of BC and wrath was the golden age of the hybrids, they could actually like... do dps or heal or tank.

    They weren't like amazing amazing, but they weren't bottom of the barrel like shaman tanks or that one weird spec for rogues that no one talked about.

    Wasn't that right around the time they were reassigned to OW or something?

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Kai_San wrote: »
    I was wondering why all the PA guilds just don't take the free move. The new server is in a much better condition than Fairbanks.

    Fairbanks is a well populated server and in a week or two the queues will be gone completely. They're already a lot shorter than they were. Moving servers is tricky logistically and can result in ending up on a server with a much smaller population which is not great for finding groups and the economy. No reason to swap off fairbanks, it'll be fine soon, though it may be slightly frustrating in the mean time.

    Logistics of moving 100+ people is not worth it. Higher pop servers have better economies and are better for grouping too.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited September 2019
    I think people are confusing leveling in retail as a fresh account versus a 15 Year vet decked to the nines in heirlooms.

    If you are wholly new to MMOs, then retail is still sufficiently slow for whatever magic teaching process people think it performs.

    Sterica on
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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    I think classic rewards you for learning to use all your abilities. As a priest, I've actually been asked to shackle undead in an instance for CC to make things easier. Using crowd control properly makes things easier and faster in classic. In retail, using crowd control will get you funny looks and will, in my experience, slow things down since the tank isn't just grabbing everything and aoeing it all down. It punishes you for not going as fast as possible, whereas classic is the opposite.

    Classic rewards you for stopping to look at your abilities and figure out the best tools for a situation, retail punishes you for not just moving on to the next mob immediately.

  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I also see a lot of players that don't seem to realize that putting points in a particular talent tree does not remove their OTHER abilities.

    Mostly in the form of ret-paladins and feral druids that have forgotten that they can also heal/cleanse - but also frost mages that are completely bewildered by the idea of using FIRE when an enemy is immune to frost.

    As I was flying over a zone last night, a Mage was pleading for help in /1 to kill a frost immune mob. People were like, just use your fire spells!

    He hadn't trained them at all, he just had the initial ranks.
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    At least in vanilla there is the excuse that like 3 classes have an interrupt and on 2 if them you have to plan resources (energy/rage) ahead to use it. Plus vanilla hiding cast bars by default.

    Yeah, but, the animations clearly indicate a spell is incoming.
    I absolutely buy the Tigole/Furor conspiracy theories because the less control they had over the game the more hybrid classes were allowed to actually play their fuckin role.

    Someone on some classic thread somewhere suggested the Countdown to Classic podcast. It had some level designers / class designers come in and discuss the creation of dungeons like BRD, Scholomance, the Molten Core, etc., as well as classes like Paladin.

    It really sounded like Tigole and Furor had nothing to do with it and Paladin was just a victim of running out of time / them switching out how it worked two weeks before release.

    The podcast itself is okay, but sometimes the host needs to come in and slam the players asking questions of the ex-Blizzard guys. A level designer is not going to have super insight into quests, guys.

    XBL: Bizazedo
    PSN: Bizazedo
    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    mages are a pain to kill at mid level. get close enough to melee, frost nova, blink. with frozen armor (or whatever it's called) now you are moving slow. even if i purge it's not a lot of mana for them to instant re-apply. i need to watch videos on how to git gud.

  • PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    I think classic rewards you for learning to use all your abilities. As a priest, I've actually been asked to shackle undead in an instance for CC to make things easier. Using crowd control properly makes things easier and faster in classic. In retail, using crowd control will get you funny looks and will, in my experience, slow things down since the tank isn't just grabbing everything and aoeing it all down. It punishes you for not going as fast as possible, whereas classic is the opposite.

    Classic rewards you for stopping to look at your abilities and figure out the best tools for a situation, retail punishes you for not just moving on to the next mob immediately.

    I don't think I've used Shackle Undead once, though my warlock friend has been getting some use out of Banish.

    I'm pretty sure Dispel Magic is the only non-healing spell I've been asked to use in a dungeon.

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    I absolutely buy the Tigole/Furor conspiracy theories because the less control they had over the game the more hybrid classes were allowed to actually play their fuckin role.

    Someone on some classic thread somewhere suggested the Countdown to Classic podcast. It had some level designers / class designers come in and discuss the creation of dungeons like BRD, Scholomance, the Molten Core, etc., as well as classes like Paladin.

    It really sounded like Tigole and Furor had nothing to do with it and Paladin was just a victim of running out of time / them switching out how it worked two weeks before release.

    The podcast itself is okay, but sometimes the host needs to come in and slam the players asking questions of the ex-Blizzard guys. A level designer is not going to have super insight into quests, guys.

    to say nothing that Tigole had no authority with class design in vanilla, and was a quest maker and glorified dungeon planner

    Kevin Jordan, whose job it was to actually design the talent trees and class abilities in 1.x, opined that the reason paladins are the way they are in 1.x is that they wanted Paladin to have "a lot of open globals" as a "class that had a lot of reactive oh-shit defensive buttons" it felt wrong to give him crusader strike which would have occupied their attention and discouraged the use of their other abilities

    this is perfectly sensible as presented because just watch a frost mage in MC during a decurse fight....


    the secret about the hyrbid tax is they solved the problem by simply not making them hybrids anymore. paladins in retail are a farce as a "hyrbid". you can go to orgrimmar, which serves as a 2nd character select screen, and opt in to a role, and that's it. that's your role. there is no hybrid. if you pick prot, you're a tank. there will be no DPS happening, and very very little healing. This is fucked because in practice... why then would you ever play a non-hybrid? why deny yourself the opportunity to switch hats. The de-hybridification is a totally necessary design choice when you are forced at gunpoint to "balance" the specs, because if a holy paladin could swing for 40-50% of the DPS a mage could and ALSO PUMP HPS then.... well then you'd have classic. and hundreds of thousands would hate that!

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    I see the point you're trying to make about hybrids but I don't think the role separation is as big as you're making out.

    in a +18 Temple of Sethraliss run yesterday on Galvazzt the lightning boss, I was doing 60k HPS as a holy paladin while also doing 25k DPS, which was about 70% of what the DPS were doing (40-45k)

    And when I play protection paladin in dungeons I'm typically doing about 80% of what the DPS are doing in terms of the overall across the whole run, 30-35k DPS while the "real" DPSers are doing 45-50k. In low keys, I can keep up even more, because I can focus less on staying alive and more on damage. In a 13 Freehold today I was at 41k overall, ahead of all 3 DPS.

    And Zmokamok, one of the healers in one of the EU MDI teams, made a video a couple weeks ago of him doing a +17 Atal'dazar run as a prot paladin with four other DPS and no healer.

    Dhalphir on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Edge cases gonna edge case

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    I'm actually quite annoyed about tank specs putting out so much damage once they decided to get rid of +threat modifiers on tank abilities.

    Like why would anyone roll a class that doesn't have a tank spec now (unless you've been maining it since 2004).

    steam_sig.png
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    I absolutely buy the Tigole/Furor conspiracy theories because the less control they had over the game the more hybrid classes were allowed to actually play their fuckin role.

    Someone on some classic thread somewhere suggested the Countdown to Classic podcast. It had some level designers / class designers come in and discuss the creation of dungeons like BRD, Scholomance, the Molten Core, etc., as well as classes like Paladin.

    It really sounded like Tigole and Furor had nothing to do with it and Paladin was just a victim of running out of time / them switching out how it worked two weeks before release.

    The podcast itself is okay, but sometimes the host needs to come in and slam the players asking questions of the ex-Blizzard guys. A level designer is not going to have super insight into quests, guys.

    The thing with game dev of the late 90s and early 00s is that they didn't really have "teams" like we have them today. If blizzard was anything like EA and Ubisoft, they had 5-8 "lead" people making all the decisions on how the game should be designed, then doling it out to the software people and art people.

    If they were the lead of the team, they were likely brought into a game-direction meeting once a week to discuss plans and throw up objections. Ghostcrawler himself admitted that he didn't like that hybrid tax and he was the one making the final calls for it IIRC.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Yeah, Kevin Jordan was the one on the podcast. They were great to hear stories from him and the level designer who did MC / Scholo etc. Some of the questions to them were horrible, but they were smart enough to turn even the worst questions into something interesting.

    XBL: Bizazedo
    PSN: Bizazedo
    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Kevin is a really cool and chill guy, and he's definitely from the hippy old school Ultimate/D&D crowd.... which I'm sure drives retail players insane.

    When you hear him talk about the game, and the thought processes that went into why things are the way they are, you realize pretty quickly that their goal was never "balance"... it was hardly even on the radar. Kevin almost rejects the notion that there even needs to be balance. His view on the game is very very different, and you can see that evident in vanilla.

    BC and wotlk are when Jeff & crew started to have a bigger voice, and the differences are clear. That's ok. They're all good games.

    but if you're looking at frikken 1.x paladins and trying to figure out why they don't do _______ as well as _______ then you're looking at it with an entirely different set of glasses than the people who made it

    just wait for BC!

  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Tbc was pretty terrible from a things to do standpoint. It was awful for guilds, especially at the transition from vanilla. Going from 40 man to 25 man, and the first raid was only 10 was stupid. Arenas completely split pvp but were the only way to get pvp gear, but you could only play with the same 2-3 people for rating because of teams. The daily quest areas in skettis and ogrila gave completely shit rewards for massive time investments. Outdoor pvp areas gave basically no rewards other than halaa, but it was completely abandoned once everyone had flying, which was like 1 week after launch. The classes might have been designed to be a little more complete but everything to do with them was crap. And if you wanted to do pvp and pve you had to go crazy farming sets for both because resilience was a dumb idea.

    At least vanilla you can use generally the same gear everywhere and pvp gear is actually pretty solid for some classes/specs. And the barrier to entry for people who want to crossover between pve and pvp is quite low. There is a lot of stuff to do at 60 just because everything is a bit grindier and blues can compete with epics in some cases. In tbc gear is more cut and dry. Also the professions in vanilla stay relevant. In tbc “professions” were stormherald and the tailor robes. Everything else sucked.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    I think the performance of seemingly normal players in dungeons in classic belies the claim that it is any better a “teacher” of game mechanics than retail. People still regularly do stupid things and fail to understand how their abilities work, and the game provides way less information that might help them do better.

    The main thing is that classic is just easier, which means ‘failure to learn’ is not the dealbreaker it can sometimes be in retail.

    imo most people who feel like “hybrid” performance doesn’t matter on retail are just not doing content that challenges them; a paladin (for example) who offheals the group while tanking/dpsing can be really valuable, but you’d only even really notice if group healing is already under heavy strain. Likewise tank/healer dps can be quite important... but only if you actually need that damage to succeed.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Line of sight pulling is one of those things that's not technically taught to you as a mechanic and yet its so useful.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    I wish there was a "true" way to determine why people play a class. My "gut" tells me that "most" people play a class because the abilities are interesting or they have some sort of mental story to go with that pick. It never occurs to them that their class won't be "optimal". I like to use quotes to emphasize things here but I honestly think that it's a very small percentage that caused so much of the change in the game and people are enjoying classic for what it was originally, a type of DnD adventure where things aren't supposed to be balanced (as said above). That the bosses can be killed with face-rollers and mouth-breathers (probably me), that's OK!

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    "Do I want to roll need on everything?"

    Hunter

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    I wish there was a "true" way to determine why people play a class. My "gut" tells me that "most" people play a class because the abilities are interesting or they have some sort of mental story to go with that pick. It never occurs to them that their class won't be "optimal". I like to use quotes to emphasize things here but I honestly think that it's a very small percentage that caused so much of the change in the game and people are enjoying classic for what it was originally, a type of DnD adventure where things aren't supposed to be balanced (as said above). That the bosses can be killed with face-rollers and mouth-breathers (probably me), that's OK!

    My favorite game leading into WoW release was the Baldur's Gate series. I didn't know much about MMORPGs except that groups were important. And what does every group need in BG? Why a rogue of course, to disarm the dozend of literaly deadly traps littering every dungeon, doorway, and chest.


    Then vanilla had like two doors and one trap, TBC had one door, and BfA has one door. Can't even think of any other.

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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    They may have designed the classes after D&D, but not the game itself.

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    don't forget about the suppression room!

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    don't forget about the suppression room!

    That's the trap i referenced.

    steam_sig.png
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    i dont know why, but after a foray with Mage for the beginning of WoW, I have naturally gravitated toward Warrior, Warlock, and Paladin since then

    which are coincidentally the same classes that I would play in Hearthstone if I played hearthstone still

    There must be something to that but I can't express it consciously

    also I can't stand mage in wow anymore (any version), and I also cannot stand mage in Hearthstone. same for priest.

    Jasconius on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    don't forget about the suppression room!

    Also rogues can disable the explosives the dark iron dudes leave behind in gnomeregan.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    There is one instance in HFC where rogues can bypass a whole section by unlocking a door.

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    In fairness

    requiring groups to also have a rogue and probably a warrior is not a great design.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
This discussion has been closed.