Endgame is legitimately in the running for my Mount Rushmore of favorite movies. I fucking love that movie and I think it should honestly be considered for a best picture Oscar.
I don't know about that, but I could definitely see some best acting nods, though Brolin's time was easily Infinity War, not Endgame.
I think it should be in the running the same way Return if the King was. Sort of as an overall show of appreciation and recognition.
Endgame is legitimately in the running for my Mount Rushmore of favorite movies. I fucking love that movie and I think it should honestly be considered for a best picture Oscar.
Possibly. Here's a question, though. Would it be as good if you had not seen at least some of the previous Marvel movies? If not, does that somehow disqualify it?
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Endgame is legitimately in the running for my Mount Rushmore of favorite movies. I fucking love that movie and I think it should honestly be considered for a best picture Oscar.
Possibly. Here's a question, though. Would it be as good if you had not seen at least some of the previous Marvel movies? If not, does that somehow disqualify it?
Sure didn't disqualify RotK, and I didn't think it was the best in the series either(that being Fellowship). Like IW/Endgame, I think IW is overall the better film, but Endgame does a wonderful job of bringing everything full circle.
Endgame is legitimately in the running for my Mount Rushmore of favorite movies. I fucking love that movie and I think it should honestly be considered for a best picture Oscar.
Possibly. Here's a question, though. Would it be as good if you had not seen at least some of the previous Marvel movies? If not, does that somehow disqualify it?
I think without the previous 20 movies it is less good but that because Endgame is explicitly a reminiscence of the MCU so far as well as a capstone to the first set of heroes story. It fondly remembers past events (by reliving them) while showing some of the changes from then that the characters have undergone. I doubt I would like it anywhere near as much without it being in the relationship it was to the rest of the MCU.
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
To elaborate, when I rewatched Civil War, though I wasn't a huge plan of the overarcing plot, it was still well made, and gave some of the supporting characters more interesting arcs than the main ones(namely Bucky, Natasha, and especially T'Challa.)
Black Panther goes through a great arc in CW. He starts out as a dutiful son, becomes hellbent on vengeance(and an unstoppable, terrifying force of nature), then when he sees what Zemo's become, he realizes what he's hurtling towards, and manages to course correct.
Stark suddenly going full lock-step with the government never seemed to really mesh, though.
2004 wasn't a particularly strong year (fuckin Seabiscuit was a nominee for best picture?), but even so some of the awards RotK won were silly. Best adapted screenplay over City of God? It was also plainly not as good a movie as Master and Commander. And I like RotK very much.
And while I liked Endgame a lot (more than Infinity War, for sure), I don't think it should be bothering the Oscars outside of the practical ones for effects, costumes, etc. Oscars given out as a gold star for a logistical triumph and a money-making bonanza feel cheap as hell just a couple of years later. Endgame was an astonishing achievement in some regards, but I don't think, come early next year, it will contain any contenders for the best acting performances and won't be the best movie in any regard except possibly in long term planning and the epicness of the final fight scene.
I also don't think a movie that made almost three billion dollars is exactly wanting for appreciation and recognition.
To elaborate, when I rewatched Civil War, though I wasn't a huge plan of the overarcing plot, it was still well made, and gave some of the supporting characters more interesting arcs than the main ones(namely Bucky, Natasha, and especially T'Challa.)
Black Panther goes through a great arc in CW. He starts out as a dutiful son, becomes hellbent on vengeance(and an unstoppable, terrifying force of nature), then when he sees what Zemo's become, he realizes what he's hurtling towards, and manages to course correct.
Stark suddenly going full lock-step with the government never seemed to really mesh, though.
I mean Stark wasn't waving a flag so much as trying for a pragmatic solution of what was possible because of their (his) past fuck ups.
Still, it was real smart to make the climax conflict of that film be about Bucky and Stark's parents rather than the ideological thing. Even then, it was sorta about the ideology because it hinged on Cap knowing better than the rest of the planet.
Infinity War edges out Endgame because I really enjoy a good antagonist (yes, technically Thanos was the protagonist in Infinity War, but you know what I mean), while Endgame Thanos is less developed.
A great antagonist just makes stories better for me because it gives the hero something solid to bounce against. Not that you need a great antagonist to have a good story, just that I like them. Like garlic on a meal, I don’t need it to enjoy my food, but when it’s there, yummy yum!
Plus the villain protagonist is such a rare trope, especially when well done, that it automatically gets bonus points with me.
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If the MCU deserves an award for anything it is its ability to have sustained a more-or-less cohesive background setting over the course of more than a decade! That's literally unprecedented, and many many folks were super-skeptical at the onset that doing this could work, but it did, and really well!
Something tells me them having all of the money will suffice as a consolation prize if the Academy can't come up with a way to honor that achievement though.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Infinity War edges out Endgame because I really enjoy a good antagonist (yes, technically Thanos was the protagonist in Infinity War, but you know what I mean), while Endgame Thanos is less developed.
A great antagonist just makes stories better for me because it gives the hero something solid to bounce against. Not that you need a great antagonist to have a good story, just that I like them. Like garlic on a meal, I don’t need it to enjoy my food, but when it’s there, yummy yum!
Plus the villain protagonist is such a rare trope, especially when well done, that it automatically gets bonus points with me.
I didn't like Thanos not being as developed in Endgame either, but IW is about him, Endgame clearly isn't. He's just a means to an end, sadly. He's barely even in the movie until the last half an hour, and even that's just him wrecking faces.
Infinity War edges out Endgame because I really enjoy a good antagonist (yes, technically Thanos was the protagonist in Infinity War, but you know what I mean), while Endgame Thanos is less developed.
A great antagonist just makes stories better for me because it gives the hero something solid to bounce against. Not that you need a great antagonist to have a good story, just that I like them. Like garlic on a meal, I don’t need it to enjoy my food, but when it’s there, yummy yum!
Plus the villain protagonist is such a rare trope, especially when well done, that it automatically gets bonus points with me.
I didn't like Thanos not being as developed in Endgame either, but IW is about him, Endgame clearly isn't. He's just a means to an end, sadly. He's barely even in the movie until the last half an hour, and even that's just him wrecking faces.
No, I completely agree.
I’ve watched Endgame a few times now. My initial gripes about it were because I was judging the movie like a single story instead of a culmination of several.
Instead if you watch it as the climax of a decade long arc it looks much better.
Easy example is Tony. If you look at just his character arc in Endgame in isolation, it’s much flatter than looking at the whole with respect to fatherhood, self sacrifice, and forgiveness.
That said, the catharsis of prime Thanos losing isn’t there because he died defiantly while thinking he’s victorious in the opening act. 2014 Thanos, while still frightening in his own right, just pales in comparison. And while we get some catharsis from everyone coming back and 2014 Thanos being utterly defeated both physically and spiritually, it’s just not the same thing.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
2004 wasn't a particularly strong year (fuckin Seabiscuit was a nominee for best picture?), but even so some of the awards RotK won were silly. Best adapted screenplay over City of God? It was also plainly not as good a movie as Master and Commander. And I like RotK very much.
And while I liked Endgame a lot (more than Infinity War, for sure), I don't think it should be bothering the Oscars outside of the practical ones for effects, costumes, etc. Oscars given out as a gold star for a logistical triumph and a money-making bonanza feel cheap as hell just a couple of years later. Endgame was an astonishing achievement in some regards, but I don't think, come early next year, it will contain any contenders for the best acting performances and won't be the best movie in any regard except possibly in long term planning and the epicness of the final fight scene.
I also don't think a movie that made almost three billion dollars is exactly wanting for appreciation and recognition.
I feel like this post assumes the Oscars aren't already cheap as hell without tossing bones to big moneymakers not to mention that they have a long history of rewarding mediocre films that didn't hold up well shortly after.
I admit I largely ignore the Academy Awards, but if Endgame doesn't get a few real nominations I think it solidifies them to be a total joke.
The Oscars often gets shit wrong. Crash won best picture, and it’s not even the best movie called Crash.
I dunno what “real” nominations means, but I think Endgame not getting them probably means nothing.
Yeah, the essential mechanism of the Oscars is voting. A bunch of people voting for a film as Best Picture doesn't actually make it the Best Picture. A bunch of people voting for a film as Best Picture makes it the film that the most people voted as Best Picture.
I disliked to hated almost everything about Endgame, but I'd be okay with it picking up the awards for the body of work that preceded it.
That said, I'm still looking forward to Phase 4 and expect to enjoy it much more now that we're finally through with the Straight White Male Power Hours character dominance.
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2004 wasn't a particularly strong year (fuckin Seabiscuit was a nominee for best picture?), but even so some of the awards RotK won were silly. Best adapted screenplay over City of God? It was also plainly not as good a movie as Master and Commander. And I like RotK very much.
And while I liked Endgame a lot (more than Infinity War, for sure), I don't think it should be bothering the Oscars outside of the practical ones for effects, costumes, etc. Oscars given out as a gold star for a logistical triumph and a money-making bonanza feel cheap as hell just a couple of years later. Endgame was an astonishing achievement in some regards, but I don't think, come early next year, it will contain any contenders for the best acting performances and won't be the best movie in any regard except possibly in long term planning and the epicness of the final fight scene.
I also don't think a movie that made almost three billion dollars is exactly wanting for appreciation and recognition.
I remember Master and Commander having an acceptable level of bromance but nothing compared with “I can’t carry it, but I can carry you!” so I must disagree that it is the better film
2004 wasn't a particularly strong year (fuckin Seabiscuit was a nominee for best picture?), but even so some of the awards RotK won were silly. Best adapted screenplay over City of God? It was also plainly not as good a movie as Master and Commander. And I like RotK very much.
And while I liked Endgame a lot (more than Infinity War, for sure), I don't think it should be bothering the Oscars outside of the practical ones for effects, costumes, etc. Oscars given out as a gold star for a logistical triumph and a money-making bonanza feel cheap as hell just a couple of years later. Endgame was an astonishing achievement in some regards, but I don't think, come early next year, it will contain any contenders for the best acting performances and won't be the best movie in any regard except possibly in long term planning and the epicness of the final fight scene.
I also don't think a movie that made almost three billion dollars is exactly wanting for appreciation and recognition.
I remember Master and Commander having an acceptable level of bromance but nothing compared with “I can’t carry it, but I can carry you!” so I must disagree that it is the better film
Master and Commander had basically no romance at all. It committed to the setting and I liked that.
I’m not sure about giving an award or nomination for Endgame since I thought Infinity War was a much better movie, but if they decided on a nice video tribute to Stan Lee with some testimonials of what his comics meant to people, that’d be very nice.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I don't care at all if anything in the MCU gets an Oscar, seeing as it's basically the Whose Line Is It Anyway of awards shows. It doesn't really matter who or what is the best at anything, all that matters is making an entertaining broadcast that looks like an awards show.
Whether or not the Oscars give some hollow award for Endgame or Infinity War, the MCU is still the most ambitious and impressive collective work produced by Hollywood since basically forever. It's a hell of a piece of work collectively, even if not all the pieces are same quality.
The marvel films don’t lend themselves particularly well to receiving major film awards, which is probably why they haven’t won one. They usually have big ensemble casts which makes it hard for a lead or supporting actor to even get enough time to stand out sufficiently. The writing is usually pretty clever and funny but not particularly complex. The performances are generally good but not deep.
What’s cool about the marvel films is the way they all tie together and how the characters develop over the course of many films, but there’s no award for that because nobody else really does it.
The academy has from time to time recognized action or superhero films with major awards, but in general the genre just doesn’t lend itself to the stuff they look for.
it was the smallest on the list but
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
The Oscars often gets shit wrong. Crash won best picture, and it’s not even the best movie called Crash.
I dunno what “real” nominations means, but I think Endgame not getting them probably means nothing.
Outside of the usual nominations for these films related to the visuals are what I was referring to. Directing, writing, and acting. The Russos ambition should be recognized as should RDJ's body of work across MCU.
The problem is expecting the Oscars to be what the layman wants out of movie awards. Oscars are to pat on the back to whoever makes the most pretentious movie of the year.
It's not like they need awards, they already made enough money to drown in several times over
The Oscars go to not great Oscar bait movies all the time, sure, but honestly if you’re going to start tossing the word “pretentious” about there’s no point in discussing it.
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I feel like there are plenty of "Oscar-worthy" movies that get credit for trying something new and not quite hitting the mark (or failing completely) while something like Endgame does something just as new and perhaps an order of magnitude more difficult, sticks the landing, and yet doesn't get credit because of its genre and widespread appeal.
Method acting has a similar issue, where people reward perceived effort more than they do actual execution. To paraphrase Laurence Olivier, "Why don't you try acting?"
Pretentious may not be the right word, but there's definitely an element of subjective differentiation that goes on beyond one clearly being "better" or more difficult than the other.
Marvel changed the movie game almost entirely in this past decade. Weather that's for good or ill is kinda up for debate, but the standards have changed from what we considered award worthy a decade or more ago. The things people care about are different now. It's fine, this will continue to happen as we age. The standards of what is worthy of recognition will change as well.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Marvel changed the movie game almost entirely in this past decade. Weather that's for good or ill is kinda up for debate, but the standards have changed from what we considered award worthy a decade or more ago. The things people care about are different now. It's fine, this will continue to happen as we age. The standards of what is worthy of recognition will change as well.
I think if you believe Marvel films (which I love!) deserve to be given Oscar nominations for acting, writing or direction I dunno what to tell you.
I disagree.
The Russos scope on the Infinity saga is so large that pulling it off at all, let alone well, I think is a remarkable directing achievement. They aren't without flaws but there is just so damn much that was done well I feel like you need advanced metrics to quantify it.
As for RDJ I think his performances are on par with plenty of others that have garnered supporting role nominations.
Even if I never get that metal gear movie, (the one we hope would be good) there's always Winter soldier.
Just watched it again this weekend. Great movie.
It’s very tight, and if you stripped out all the superhero elements would still work as a commentary on the social media panopticon and an overly controlling government.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Even if I never get that metal gear movie, (the one we hope would be good) there's always Winter soldier.
Just watched it again this weekend. Great movie.
It’s very tight, and if you stripped out all the superhero elements would still work as a commentary on the social media panopticon and an overly controlling government.
I wouldn't mind the Oscars adding a "Special Achievement in Filmmaking" thing which isn't an annual award but is something which is granted when a film or studio achieves something which is noteworthy unto itself which isn't a good fit for the existing awards.
I feel like giving that award to the MCU in general would be a worthwhile introduction of such an award, too.
I wouldn't mind the Oscars adding a "Special Achievement in Filmmaking" thing which isn't an annual award but is something which is granted when a film or studio achieves something which is noteworthy unto itself which isn't a good fit for the existing awards.
I feel like giving that award to the MCU in general would be a worthwhile introduction of such an award, too.
They do that every so often, or a lifetime achievement award or whatever
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I think it should be in the running the same way Return if the King was. Sort of as an overall show of appreciation and recognition.
Possibly. Here's a question, though. Would it be as good if you had not seen at least some of the previous Marvel movies? If not, does that somehow disqualify it?
Sure didn't disqualify RotK, and I didn't think it was the best in the series either(that being Fellowship). Like IW/Endgame, I think IW is overall the better film, but Endgame does a wonderful job of bringing everything full circle.
I think without the previous 20 movies it is less good but that because Endgame is explicitly a reminiscence of the MCU so far as well as a capstone to the first set of heroes story. It fondly remembers past events (by reliving them) while showing some of the changes from then that the characters have undergone. I doubt I would like it anywhere near as much without it being in the relationship it was to the rest of the MCU.
Black Panther goes through a great arc in CW. He starts out as a dutiful son, becomes hellbent on vengeance(and an unstoppable, terrifying force of nature), then when he sees what Zemo's become, he realizes what he's hurtling towards, and manages to course correct.
Stark suddenly going full lock-step with the government never seemed to really mesh, though.
And while I liked Endgame a lot (more than Infinity War, for sure), I don't think it should be bothering the Oscars outside of the practical ones for effects, costumes, etc. Oscars given out as a gold star for a logistical triumph and a money-making bonanza feel cheap as hell just a couple of years later. Endgame was an astonishing achievement in some regards, but I don't think, come early next year, it will contain any contenders for the best acting performances and won't be the best movie in any regard except possibly in long term planning and the epicness of the final fight scene.
I also don't think a movie that made almost three billion dollars is exactly wanting for appreciation and recognition.
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I mean Stark wasn't waving a flag so much as trying for a pragmatic solution of what was possible because of their (his) past fuck ups.
Still, it was real smart to make the climax conflict of that film be about Bucky and Stark's parents rather than the ideological thing. Even then, it was sorta about the ideology because it hinged on Cap knowing better than the rest of the planet.
They are good and enjoyable films that aren't trying to be anything other than what they are, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
A great antagonist just makes stories better for me because it gives the hero something solid to bounce against. Not that you need a great antagonist to have a good story, just that I like them. Like garlic on a meal, I don’t need it to enjoy my food, but when it’s there, yummy yum!
Plus the villain protagonist is such a rare trope, especially when well done, that it automatically gets bonus points with me.
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Something tells me them having all of the money will suffice as a consolation prize if the Academy can't come up with a way to honor that achievement though.
I didn't like Thanos not being as developed in Endgame either, but IW is about him, Endgame clearly isn't. He's just a means to an end, sadly. He's barely even in the movie until the last half an hour, and even that's just him wrecking faces.
No, I completely agree.
I’ve watched Endgame a few times now. My initial gripes about it were because I was judging the movie like a single story instead of a culmination of several.
Instead if you watch it as the climax of a decade long arc it looks much better.
Easy example is Tony. If you look at just his character arc in Endgame in isolation, it’s much flatter than looking at the whole with respect to fatherhood, self sacrifice, and forgiveness.
That said, the catharsis of prime Thanos losing isn’t there because he died defiantly while thinking he’s victorious in the opening act. 2014 Thanos, while still frightening in his own right, just pales in comparison. And while we get some catharsis from everyone coming back and 2014 Thanos being utterly defeated both physically and spiritually, it’s just not the same thing.
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I feel like this post assumes the Oscars aren't already cheap as hell without tossing bones to big moneymakers not to mention that they have a long history of rewarding mediocre films that didn't hold up well shortly after.
I admit I largely ignore the Academy Awards, but if Endgame doesn't get a few real nominations I think it solidifies them to be a total joke.
I dunno what “real” nominations means, but I think Endgame not getting them probably means nothing.
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Yeah, the essential mechanism of the Oscars is voting. A bunch of people voting for a film as Best Picture doesn't actually make it the Best Picture. A bunch of people voting for a film as Best Picture makes it the film that the most people voted as Best Picture.
That said, I'm still looking forward to Phase 4 and expect to enjoy it much more now that we're finally through with the Straight White Male Power Hours character dominance.
Master and Commander had basically no romance at all. It committed to the setting and I liked that.
I’m not sure about giving an award or nomination for Endgame since I thought Infinity War was a much better movie, but if they decided on a nice video tribute to Stan Lee with some testimonials of what his comics meant to people, that’d be very nice.
Whether or not the Oscars give some hollow award for Endgame or Infinity War, the MCU is still the most ambitious and impressive collective work produced by Hollywood since basically forever. It's a hell of a piece of work collectively, even if not all the pieces are same quality.
What’s cool about the marvel films is the way they all tie together and how the characters develop over the course of many films, but there’s no award for that because nobody else really does it.
The academy has from time to time recognized action or superhero films with major awards, but in general the genre just doesn’t lend itself to the stuff they look for.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Outside of the usual nominations for these films related to the visuals are what I was referring to. Directing, writing, and acting. The Russos ambition should be recognized as should RDJ's body of work across MCU.
I disagree.
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It's not like they need awards, they already made enough money to drown in several times over
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Method acting has a similar issue, where people reward perceived effort more than they do actual execution. To paraphrase Laurence Olivier, "Why don't you try acting?"
Pretentious may not be the right word, but there's definitely an element of subjective differentiation that goes on beyond one clearly being "better" or more difficult than the other.
This happens about every decade or two anyways.
Just watched it again this weekend. Great movie.
The Russos scope on the Infinity saga is so large that pulling it off at all, let alone well, I think is a remarkable directing achievement. They aren't without flaws but there is just so damn much that was done well I feel like you need advanced metrics to quantify it.
As for RDJ I think his performances are on par with plenty of others that have garnered supporting role nominations.
It’s very tight, and if you stripped out all the superhero elements would still work as a commentary on the social media panopticon and an overly controlling government.
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Also strip out the ending monologue.
I feel like giving that award to the MCU in general would be a worthwhile introduction of such an award, too.
I only have the most passing of knowledge on the character, but Marvel's ability to pull talent for their projects continues
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They do that every so often, or a lifetime achievement award or whatever