Unsurprisingly, Winston has the lowest win rate for a MT and second lowest overall, at a kinda pathetic 44%.
I’d actually argue that bastion (ugh) might be the most underutilized hero. That makes me unhappy to type. But given his strength against shields, he probably should be used more.
I reeeaally hope they can find a way to make Winston relevant again soon, because he is far and away my favorite main tank to play. Monkey is in such a sad place right now
I reeeaally hope they can find a way to make Winston relevant again soon, because he is far and away my favorite main tank to play. Monkey is in such a sad place right now
Poor guy gets blown up by the dps these days. He dives in, drops bubble, drops dead. He can try to survive a little longer by jumping off center near cover but he’s still in the effective range of reaper, sym, and Mei.
Unsurprisingly, Winston has the lowest win rate for a MT and second lowest overall, at a kinda pathetic 44%.
I’d actually argue that bastion (ugh) might be the most underutilized hero. That makes me unhappy to type. But given his strength against shields, he probably should be used more.
My brother and I went Pirate Ship on Junkertown attack the other day and absolutely owned it >.<
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Unsurprisingly, Winston has the lowest win rate for a MT and second lowest overall, at a kinda pathetic 44%.
I’d actually argue that bastion (ugh) might be the most underutilized hero. That makes me unhappy to type. But given his strength against shields, he probably should be used more.
My brother and I went Pirate Ship on Junkertown attack the other day and absolutely owned it >.<
Dude, don’t feel bad, it’s legitimately good in certain maps. Junkertown is a pirate ship classic.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I wish I could be more flexy, but there are a list of heroes I really shouldn't touch if I'm not just screwing around for practice. I've had awesome moments on all of them, but those moments are outliers at best.
TANK:
Roadhog
Ham-Ham
I tried a little D.Va last night and like, almost-instantly switched back to the horse. I'm blaming this on her nerfs.
DPS:
Ashe
Hanzo
Widow
I can do bread-and-butter body shot damage with the occasional headshot or two, but I'm no flick aim trickshotter.
SUPP:
Bap
Lucio
Brig
Idk why I'm (generally) pretty bad about getting value on Bap when I'm actually fairly confident in my Ana. I hate his ult - it's way too easy to screw up, IMO - and while he's boss at keeping a deathball up, he's total crap at keeping a single high-HP target alive under focus fire unless you burn the lamp. Or another way to put it - he's precisely as good at it as Mercy is (not very), but he's got a way bigger hitbox and frankly shitty survivability outside of lamp's cooldown.
...though I do think lamp is better and easier value than rez... hm.... maybe I should practice him more...
One thing that always surprises me on Bap - I never see folks holding down both his triggers. It's free value when your tanks are in front of you and the reds are past them! Hold down both buttons! It's just free damage!
One thing that I want on Bap that I have mentioned is I would rather it be a shotgun blast than a burst fire.
Is it possible in workshop to swap weapons? I could imagine a MH mode where you don’t just get a random hero, that hero gets a random weapon.
Like, imagine Reinhardt with mercy’s staff. You need healing? Charrrrrrge! Pharah with widow’s sniper rifle (justice rains from above, one bullet at a time).
Sure, it would be super random and weird. But I personally would find it funny for roadhog to hook me and try to kill me with lucio’s gun, or lucio to skate on walls firing rockets.
Is it possible in workshop to swap weapons? I could imagine a MH mode where you don’t just get a random hero, that hero gets a random weapon.
Like, imagine Reinhardt with mercy’s staff. You need healing? Charrrrrrge! Pharah with widow’s sniper rifle (justice rains from above, one bullet at a time).
Sure, it would be super random and weird. But I personally would find it funny for roadhog to hook me and try to kill me with lucio’s gun, or lucio to skate on walls firing rockets.
Nope weapons are still tied to characters. But there are mods that do stuff like hotswap your character every time you use an ability, or manually recreate rough abilities with scripting.
Unsurprisingly, Winston has the lowest win rate for a MT and second lowest overall, at a kinda pathetic 44%.
I’d actually argue that bastion (ugh) might be the most underutilized hero. That makes me unhappy to type. But given his strength against shields, he probably should be used more.
My brother and I went Pirate Ship on Junkertown attack the other day and absolutely owned it >.<
Dude, don’t feel bad, it’s legitimately good in certain maps. Junkertown is a pirate ship classic.
I've had my ass handed to me by far too many Symmetras this week to feel guilty about going Bastion.
I wish I could be more flexy, but there are a list of heroes I really shouldn't touch if I'm not just screwing around for practice. I've had awesome moments on all of them, but those moments are outliers at best.
TANK:
Roadhog
Ham-Ham
I tried a little D.Va last night and like, almost-instantly switched back to the horse. I'm blaming this on her nerfs.
DPS:
Ashe
Hanzo
Widow
I can do bread-and-butter body shot damage with the occasional headshot or two, but I'm no flick aim trickshotter.
SUPP:
Bap
Lucio
Brig
Idk why I'm (generally) pretty bad about getting value on Bap when I'm actually fairly confident in my Ana. I hate his ult - it's way too easy to screw up, IMO - and while he's boss at keeping a deathball up, he's total crap at keeping a single high-HP target alive under focus fire unless you burn the lamp. Or another way to put it - he's precisely as good at it as Mercy is (not very), but he's got a way bigger hitbox and frankly shitty survivability outside of lamp's cooldown.
...though I do think lamp is better and easier value than rez... hm.... maybe I should practice him more...
One thing that always surprises me on Bap - I never see folks holding down both his triggers. It's free value when your tanks are in front of you and the reds are past them! Hold down both buttons! It's just free damage!
One thing that I want on Bap that I have mentioned is I would rather it be a shotgun blast than a burst fire.
Nah, Bap is a ranged healer like Ana. He's not really supposed to be within shotgun range of his team, and the fact that he's got a long-range hitscan weapon is a major boon - no other support in the game has it (I'm not getting into the weeds of Ana's scoped shots), and it allows him to address things that a Lucio, Zen or even Ana just can't.
Brig could use a shotgun, perhaps. But I guess she kinda' is a shotgun - just one with lowish DPS and extreme damage falloff lol.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
No one should ever feel bad for picking any of the characters, and in a shield meta there are few better shield busters than bastion. He has plenty of counters.Certainly obnoxious behind two shields, but that's more a shield meta problem than a bastion problem. I just feel like too few dps are good at puncturing shields, a problem only more acute with 2 of them on the field.
I feel like hardly anybody is really happy with Bastion the way he is. Your teammates will give you shit if you pick him, the enemy team hates fighting him. I think they need to push him more towards the center again as a more versatile DPS character, rather than doing astonishing damage as a turret. Maybe the turret should have a heat gauge so it can only by used occasionally, but he gains another ability.
1) Minigun now spins up in its rate of fire rather than accuracy. You have to continuously fire for it to fire at max damage.
2) In turret form, Bastion has a medium-ish personal barrier that's powered by the same bar as his self-repair.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I think DPS is fine for the most part. So is support.
Tanks is where the work needs to be done. I think Rein, Zarya and Roadhog are fine for the most part. Orisa and Sigma might need slight nerfs. Not sure about D.Va...and hmm...Winston might need buffs I dunno. I think his barrier could stand to be maybe 750 instead of 500.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
DPS needs work. Mei either needs to lose something with her freeze range or icicle damage or lose at least 25 HP, I think Reaper needs to have one of if not the the slowest ult charge if you want him to have the same kit so at least you know all he has is front line bullying and not space clearing ults every other team fight, and Torb needs a rework because the turret is basically a 3rd DPS which is a real advantage these day. And Sombra is pretty much dead in 2/2/2 unless the team is 4 or 5 stack.
1) Minigun now spins up in its rate of fire rather than accuracy. You have to continuously fire for it to fire at max damage.
2) In turret form, Bastion has a medium-ish personal barrier that's powered by the same bar as his self-repair.
At first I was like "damn right," but then it occurred to me that the immobility Bastion's under when in sentry is... absolutely massive. You're choosing to step into a Junkrat trap. It's a debuff - and you're a massive hitbox.
Much as I'd like a Bastion to not be able to delete me in 0.4 seconds, I dunno... he's not exactly meta anyway.
Edit: also the shield thing would only make him stronger Vs. Hanzo - one of his current strongest counters.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
1) Minigun now spins up in its rate of fire rather than accuracy. You have to continuously fire for it to fire at max damage.
2) In turret form, Bastion has a medium-ish personal barrier that's powered by the same bar as his self-repair.
At first I was like "damn right," but then it occurred to me that the immobility Bastion's under when in sentry is... absolutely massive. You're choosing to step into a Junkrat trap. It's a debuff - and you're a massive hitbox.
Much as I'd like a Bastion to not be able to delete me in 0.4 seconds, I dunno... he's not exactly meta anyway.
Edit: also the shield thing would only make him stronger Vs. Hanzo - one of his current strongest counters.
Bastion is pretty feast or famine. Either you dominate or get smashed. It’s not super engaging gameplay imho.
Maybe limiting his range of fire in sentry mode? That way he’d dominate a limited range of fire, but be very vulnerable to flanks. It would allow flankers to hurt him since he’d have to transform into recon and reposition rather than glance in tracer’s direction to deal with her.
1) Minigun now spins up in its rate of fire rather than accuracy. You have to continuously fire for it to fire at max damage.
2) In turret form, Bastion has a medium-ish personal barrier that's powered by the same bar as his self-repair.
At first I was like "damn right," but then it occurred to me that the immobility Bastion's under when in sentry is... absolutely massive. You're choosing to step into a Junkrat trap. It's a debuff - and you're a massive hitbox.
Much as I'd like a Bastion to not be able to delete me in 0.4 seconds, I dunno... he's not exactly meta anyway.
Edit: also the shield thing would only make him stronger Vs. Hanzo - one of his current strongest counters.
Bastion is pretty feast or famine. Either you dominate or get smashed. It’s not super engaging gameplay imho.
Maybe limiting his range of fire in sentry mode? That way he’d dominate a limited range of fire, but be very vulnerable to flanks. It would allow flankers to hurt him since he’d have to transform into recon and reposition rather than glance in tracer’s direction to deal with her.
People already do the "dance on your head hoping I panic" thing and it works 50% of the time, this would make him lunchmeat for anyone in melee range.
With further reflection, it would basically make winston a counter to bastion instead of bastion a counter to winston ... but maybe that's a good thing?
1) Minigun now spins up in its rate of fire rather than accuracy. You have to continuously fire for it to fire at max damage.
2) In turret form, Bastion has a medium-ish personal barrier that's powered by the same bar as his self-repair.
At first I was like "damn right," but then it occurred to me that the immobility Bastion's under when in sentry is... absolutely massive. You're choosing to step into a Junkrat trap. It's a debuff - and you're a massive hitbox.
Much as I'd like a Bastion to not be able to delete me in 0.4 seconds, I dunno... he's not exactly meta anyway.
Edit: also the shield thing would only make him stronger Vs. Hanzo - one of his current strongest counters.
Bastion is pretty feast or famine. Either you dominate or get smashed. It’s not super engaging gameplay imho.
Maybe limiting his range of fire in sentry mode? That way he’d dominate a limited range of fire, but be very vulnerable to flanks. It would allow flankers to hurt him since he’d have to transform into recon and reposition rather than glance in tracer’s direction to deal with her.
People already do the "dance on your head hoping I panic" thing and it works 50% of the time, this would make him lunchmeat for anyone in melee range.
With further reflection, it would basically make winston a counter to bastion instead of bastion a counter to winston ... but maybe that's a good thing?
As long as QP classic, stays as a permanent slot in arcade I'll be ok with it. Adding to the arcade win meter will be nice.
I suppose its not a big deal since i doubt they're worried about increasing their playerbase at this point in the game's life, but the ~5 min wait between matches for unranked took what used to be a selling point and made it into something inline with the rest of the MP shooters out there.
Still had some fun in both modes, but will be sticking with actual QP in the arcade.
Kinda funny how Mercy appears in Grandmaster out of nowhere, but I suspect that the ability to damage boost on command helps with winning the barrier wars that are allegedly so common up there.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Wow surprised Zenyatta is up there. He actually feels like the weakest support rn imo.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
I think it'd be neat if winstons lightning was stronger if you're just hitting one person but then it falls off to its current rate when split between multiple targets
Not even like a lot more, maybe at most 90 on a single target and then for two or more its 60 each
+1
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
That graph makes me sad and disgusted. Because it's on point, although I expected to see Baptiste instead of Zen in some places.
I will say that despite being anti-Lucio ever since his EZ mode buff even though he was my third most played character at one point, I have been playing him more when playing support because it just doesn't feel fair playing Moira at the moment.
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
You guy invent new terminology faster than I can keep up.
What is "make space" and "shield break" in the context of this thread? "make space" is particular is a very strange term and I have no clue what people are trying to express when they use it.
I do get what "breaking a shield" is, but isn't that purely a function of damage absorbed vs. HP of the shield? Is there some kind of multiplier by damage type or something else weird I'm not aware of?
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Making space basically making the area around the tank relatively safe for their team. Some do so by providing a barrier (Rein, Orisa, Sigma), some by being a distraction in the back line (Winston, Hammond, D.Va), others by being fucking scary (Roadhog, Zarya, Sigma). Yes, I know Sigma's in there twice.
Shield break is about specifically trying to break the shield before the enemy does it to you by just putting out as much damage as possible. Junkrat, Hanzo, Roadhog, and Bastion are great at this.
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Make Space: I think that makes sense to me, but I also think that's just part of good situational awareness about where the tank is and what they are doing. Which I'll freely admit I'm terrible at. Mei seems like she'd be pretty good at this, since folks should be hesitant to get to close to her generally. So if I'm hugging a tank, that makes the area around that tank safer for everyone than if I was ex. an Ashe.
Shield Break: Hmm. I might call that a "shield race", kinda like mmo DPS race boss fights.
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Making space basically making the area around the tank relatively safe for their team. Some do so by providing a barrier (Rein, Orisa, Sigma), some by being a distraction in the back line (Winston, Hammond, D.Va), others by being fucking scary (Roadhog, Zarya, Sigma). Yes, I know Sigma's in there twice.
This is why Reinhardts/Orisas who don't advance are so devastating to their own team. Making space means providing opportunities for your other members of the team (DPS, offtank, even supports) to do what they need to do. That can be holding up a barrier so your team can shoot through it, but it can also mean moving forward and displacing the opposing team. Tanks that expect space to be created for them are not enabling their team to make plays.
The funniest thing to me is watching in OWL the players horseshoe back around to DPS Moira
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Ha, what a "surprise", Reaper and Sym are the dominant picks across the board. It's almost like their wildly imbalanced right now.
Kinda surprised to see Zen is that prevalent, considering Zarya is apparently also quite prevalent and would be knocking off his discord orbs all the time. Not at all surprised to see so much Moira, seeing as she's about the only way to reliably get healing or damage through shields.
I am still a believer that barriers should not be walls, they should be dampeners. So they reduce damage until they are dispelled (used up), but never block 100%.
I am still a believer that barriers should not be walls, they should be dampeners. So they reduce damage until they are dispelled (used up), but never block 100%.
I'm of the opposite opinion in that I think shields should actually be hard cover like Mei's wall and each tank has a different form of it. So instead of Orissa throwing out a big one-way shield, she puts cover onto the field. Still blocks enemy (and also allied, since it's an actual barrier) shots, but it can also work for the enemy if you spam it and place it badly. Not necessarily cover of the same size/shape as the shields we have now, but cover that provides a similar role (Orissa lets you bunker up versus Sigma being good for a push) per tank.
Would discourage shield wars because the cover protects in both directions (making it pointless to drop a shield in front of an enemy shield, because neither of you can shoot through the cover) and also adds a dynamically changing cover element to every point of confrontation.
And you wouldn't necessarily need it for every shield tank, but I think it would be a good change over every tank having either a shield or nothing when it comes to barriers. Maybe keep the likes of Rein and Winton with actual shields, but then change Sigma and Orissa to moving cover around the battlefield. It would also mean those two tanks have a tradeoff for being able to project shields and fire at the same time, since they would no longer be carrying this awesome one-way protection and would have to work around their own cover.
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I’d actually argue that bastion (ugh) might be the most underutilized hero. That makes me unhappy to type. But given his strength against shields, he probably should be used more.
Poor guy gets blown up by the dps these days. He dives in, drops bubble, drops dead. He can try to survive a little longer by jumping off center near cover but he’s still in the effective range of reaper, sym, and Mei.
He is my favorite MT too, with the best skins!
My brother and I went Pirate Ship on Junkertown attack the other day and absolutely owned it >.<
Dude, don’t feel bad, it’s legitimately good in certain maps. Junkertown is a pirate ship classic.
One thing that I want on Bap that I have mentioned is I would rather it be a shotgun blast than a burst fire.
Like, imagine Reinhardt with mercy’s staff. You need healing? Charrrrrrge! Pharah with widow’s sniper rifle (justice rains from above, one bullet at a time).
Sure, it would be super random and weird. But I personally would find it funny for roadhog to hook me and try to kill me with lucio’s gun, or lucio to skate on walls firing rockets.
Nope weapons are still tied to characters. But there are mods that do stuff like hotswap your character every time you use an ability, or manually recreate rough abilities with scripting.
I've had my ass handed to me by far too many Symmetras this week to feel guilty about going Bastion.
Nah, Bap is a ranged healer like Ana. He's not really supposed to be within shotgun range of his team, and the fact that he's got a long-range hitscan weapon is a major boon - no other support in the game has it (I'm not getting into the weeds of Ana's scoped shots), and it allows him to address things that a Lucio, Zen or even Ana just can't.
Brig could use a shotgun, perhaps. But I guess she kinda' is a shotgun - just one with lowish DPS and extreme damage falloff lol.
1) Minigun now spins up in its rate of fire rather than accuracy. You have to continuously fire for it to fire at max damage.
2) In turret form, Bastion has a medium-ish personal barrier that's powered by the same bar as his self-repair.
Tanks is where the work needs to be done. I think Rein, Zarya and Roadhog are fine for the most part. Orisa and Sigma might need slight nerfs. Not sure about D.Va...and hmm...Winston might need buffs I dunno. I think his barrier could stand to be maybe 750 instead of 500.
At first I was like "damn right," but then it occurred to me that the immobility Bastion's under when in sentry is... absolutely massive. You're choosing to step into a Junkrat trap. It's a debuff - and you're a massive hitbox.
Much as I'd like a Bastion to not be able to delete me in 0.4 seconds, I dunno... he's not exactly meta anyway.
Edit: also the shield thing would only make him stronger Vs. Hanzo - one of his current strongest counters.
Bastion is pretty feast or famine. Either you dominate or get smashed. It’s not super engaging gameplay imho.
Maybe limiting his range of fire in sentry mode? That way he’d dominate a limited range of fire, but be very vulnerable to flanks. It would allow flankers to hurt him since he’d have to transform into recon and reposition rather than glance in tracer’s direction to deal with her.
People already do the "dance on your head hoping I panic" thing and it works 50% of the time, this would make him lunchmeat for anyone in melee range.
With further reflection, it would basically make winston a counter to bastion instead of bastion a counter to winston ... but maybe that's a good thing?
I’d be ok with that.
I suppose its not a big deal since i doubt they're worried about increasing their playerbase at this point in the game's life, but the ~5 min wait between matches for unranked took what used to be a selling point and made it into something inline with the rest of the MP shooters out there.
Still had some fun in both modes, but will be sticking with actual QP in the arcade.
Not even like a lot more, maybe at most 90 on a single target and then for two or more its 60 each
I will say that despite being anti-Lucio ever since his EZ mode buff even though he was my third most played character at one point, I have been playing him more when playing support because it just doesn't feel fair playing Moira at the moment.
What is "make space" and "shield break" in the context of this thread? "make space" is particular is a very strange term and I have no clue what people are trying to express when they use it.
I do get what "breaking a shield" is, but isn't that purely a function of damage absorbed vs. HP of the shield? Is there some kind of multiplier by damage type or something else weird I'm not aware of?
Shield break is about specifically trying to break the shield before the enemy does it to you by just putting out as much damage as possible. Junkrat, Hanzo, Roadhog, and Bastion are great at this.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Shield Break: Hmm. I might call that a "shield race", kinda like mmo DPS race boss fights.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Yeah. Barriers everywhere makes her sad.
No surprises there. Sigma, Orisa, sym, Moira and lucio at basically every ELO.
This is why Reinhardts/Orisas who don't advance are so devastating to their own team. Making space means providing opportunities for your other members of the team (DPS, offtank, even supports) to do what they need to do. That can be holding up a barrier so your team can shoot through it, but it can also mean moving forward and displacing the opposing team. Tanks that expect space to be created for them are not enabling their team to make plays.
That is an extremely depressing picture.
And Sym had the highest win rate even when barely anyone was picking her.
So yeah...meta and all that but it isn't that unusual.
Probably the reason Zen is also on there even though he's weak rn. He's the only support who really compensates for bad dps.
Kinda surprised to see Zen is that prevalent, considering Zarya is apparently also quite prevalent and would be knocking off his discord orbs all the time. Not at all surprised to see so much Moira, seeing as she's about the only way to reliably get healing or damage through shields.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
I'm of the opposite opinion in that I think shields should actually be hard cover like Mei's wall and each tank has a different form of it. So instead of Orissa throwing out a big one-way shield, she puts cover onto the field. Still blocks enemy (and also allied, since it's an actual barrier) shots, but it can also work for the enemy if you spam it and place it badly. Not necessarily cover of the same size/shape as the shields we have now, but cover that provides a similar role (Orissa lets you bunker up versus Sigma being good for a push) per tank.
Would discourage shield wars because the cover protects in both directions (making it pointless to drop a shield in front of an enemy shield, because neither of you can shoot through the cover) and also adds a dynamically changing cover element to every point of confrontation.
And you wouldn't necessarily need it for every shield tank, but I think it would be a good change over every tank having either a shield or nothing when it comes to barriers. Maybe keep the likes of Rein and Winton with actual shields, but then change Sigma and Orissa to moving cover around the battlefield. It would also mean those two tanks have a tradeoff for being able to project shields and fire at the same time, since they would no longer be carrying this awesome one-way protection and would have to work around their own cover.