It's not that malicious, though. He's just someone who learnt about other races and cultures to the level of primary school learning about a country (everything you need to know summarised in one cartoon picture. Africa = tribes with spears, Egypt = Pyramids and Walking Like An Egyption, Japan = everyone wears kimonos, etc) and never bothered to learn any more than that because he didn't need to.
Yeah, Colon is the guy who was told that absolutely outrageous stuff about folks not like him and just believed it, because stupid. Not like the actively malicious stuff, mostly, but the "Oh they're totally different than us!" stuff. It is, generally, not really mean spirited but he can shade that way depending on the current mood. He kinda feels like an "uneducated masses" stand in.
It is kind of funny as Colon has practically no redeeming qualities through most of the book. His lack of active malice is about the nicest thing you can say about him. Yet he doesn't tend to inspire hatred from most folks I know. Kinda weird.
I guess it's also because Colon is trying to do the right thing, even when he is too stupid and ignorant to know what it is, is used for comic relief, and, most importantly, is not presented as a model or someone worth emulating. I don't have the book with me, but Vetinari resumes Colon and his role perfectly in Jingo.
mrondeau on
+4
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Also I know it's been said but just fuckin
cast Charles Dance as Vetinari.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
And doesn't Vimes chew him out for it pretty early on in the series? Over a comment about... I want to say dwarves? Klatchians?
Honestly, I don't see how you do Nobby without Colon, and without those two it's barely a Watch series at all.
Colon gets a lot of moments to progressively unlearn his racism. He starts racist against damn near fucking everything, but via interacting with people he ends up losing pretty much all his racism against dwarves, trolls, klatchians, and etcetera.
Hell, Vimes starts up pretty racist against a lot of classes. He gets multiple callouts about dwarves, trolls, and undead. Even Carrot needs Angua to yell at him about female dwarves. Prejudice is kind of a theme in Watch books, is what I'm getting at.
Vimes says he doesn’t like dwarfs much, but then goes on to say he doesn’t like Trolls or Humans much either.
I think that theme is repeated whenever he interacts with a new species.
However he does strongly believe that when it comes to the law/justice everyone should be equal. His real hatred is for those who believe themselves to be above the law.
And doesn't Vimes chew him out for it pretty early on in the series? Over a comment about... I want to say dwarves? Klatchians?
Honestly, I don't see how you do Nobby without Colon, and without those two it's barely a Watch series at all.
Colon gets a lot of moments to progressively unlearn his racism. He starts racist against damn near fucking everything, but via interacting with people he ends up losing pretty much all his racism against dwarves, trolls, klatchians, and etcetera.
Hell, Vimes starts up pretty racist against a lot of classes. He gets multiple callouts about dwarves, trolls, and undead. Even Carrot needs Angua to yell at him about female dwarves. Prejudice is kind of a theme in Watch books, is what I'm getting at.
Vimes says he doesn’t like dwarfs much, but then goes on to say he doesn’t like Trolls or Humans much either.
I think that theme is repeated whenever he interacts with a new species.
However he does strongly believe that when it comes to the law/justice everyone should be equal. His real hatred is for those who believe themselves to be above the law.
Vimes is less of a racist than he is a misanthrope.
And doesn't Vimes chew him out for it pretty early on in the series? Over a comment about... I want to say dwarves? Klatchians?
Honestly, I don't see how you do Nobby without Colon, and without those two it's barely a Watch series at all.
Colon gets a lot of moments to progressively unlearn his racism. He starts racist against damn near fucking everything, but via interacting with people he ends up losing pretty much all his racism against dwarves, trolls, klatchians, and etcetera.
Hell, Vimes starts up pretty racist against a lot of classes. He gets multiple callouts about dwarves, trolls, and undead. Even Carrot needs Angua to yell at him about female dwarves. Prejudice is kind of a theme in Watch books, is what I'm getting at.
Vimes says he doesn’t like dwarfs much, but then goes on to say he doesn’t like Trolls or Humans much either.
I think that theme is repeated whenever he interacts with a new species.
However he does strongly believe that when it comes to the law/justice everyone should be equal. His real hatred is for those who believe themselves to be above the law.
Vimes is less of a racist than he is a misanthrope.
Also that fades as he stops being a bitter solitary alcoholic who has nothing in his life.
And even then, he still gives one a chance despite not trusting her (and she warrants that lack as it ends up she was spying), and then STILL hires her onto the Watch afterwards.
I know there are people who have issues with the Going Postal adaptation, but Charles Dance was really good as Vetinari. I would be all on board with him reprising the role.
He's an amazing Vetinari but I always had him with dark hair in my reads
+5
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
And doesn't Vimes chew him out for it pretty early on in the series? Over a comment about... I want to say dwarves? Klatchians?
Honestly, I don't see how you do Nobby without Colon, and without those two it's barely a Watch series at all.
Colon gets a lot of moments to progressively unlearn his racism. He starts racist against damn near fucking everything, but via interacting with people he ends up losing pretty much all his racism against dwarves, trolls, klatchians, and etcetera.
Hell, Vimes starts up pretty racist against a lot of classes. He gets multiple callouts about dwarves, trolls, and undead. Even Carrot needs Angua to yell at him about female dwarves. Prejudice is kind of a theme in Watch books, is what I'm getting at.
Vimes says he doesn’t like dwarfs much, but then goes on to say he doesn’t like Trolls or Humans much either.
I think that theme is repeated whenever he interacts with a new species.
However he does strongly believe that when it comes to the law/justice everyone should be equal. His real hatred is for those who believe themselves to be above the law.
Vimes is less of a racist than he is a misanthrope.
Racism is not a problem on the Discworld, because - what with trolls and dwarfs and so on - speciesism is more interesting. Black and white live in perfect harmony and gang up on green.
+5
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Chiwetel Eijifor might make a good Vetinari
+5
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
I would accept him as any character up to and including lady Sybil
Or Lance Reddick. I think it was on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me he described himself as frequently being cast as intimidating, vaguely sinister authority figures.
+2
David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
My only problem with Dance is that I always saw Vetinari as younger. I mean, he's about the same age as Vimes and there's some 25 years between Dance and Dormer. Which, acting and all that, but still.
My only problem with Dance is that I always saw Vetinari as younger. I mean, he's about the same age as Vimes and there's some 25 years between Dance and Dormer. Which, acting and all that, but still.
I must have misread, but I always pictured Vetinari as older. Like, in my mind, he's a very father like figure to Vimes (maybe not a nice father, but the one whose study you go to when things need to be straightened out).
Especially in the later books he seemed to be grooming Vimes as a replacement for himself as the manipulative bastard that keeps the city running.
But then, it has been entirely too long since I've read Discworld, so I may be remembering wrong... Will have to correct that.
My only problem with Dance is that I always saw Vetinari as younger. I mean, he's about the same age as Vimes and there's some 25 years between Dance and Dormer. Which, acting and all that, but still.
I must have misread, but I always pictured Vetinari as older. Like, in my mind, he's a very father like figure to Vimes (maybe not a nice father, but the one whose study you go to when things need to be straightened out).
Especially in the later books he seemed to be grooming Vimes as a replacement for himself as the manipulative bastard that keeps the city running.
But then, it has been entirely too long since I've read Discworld, so I may be remembering wrong... Will have to correct that.
They were both Young Turks during the Glorious Revolution of the 25th of May.
My only problem with Dance is that I always saw Vetinari as younger. I mean, he's about the same age as Vimes and there's some 25 years between Dance and Dormer. Which, acting and all that, but still.
I must have misread, but I always pictured Vetinari as older. Like, in my mind, he's a very father like figure to Vimes (maybe not a nice father, but the one whose study you go to when things need to be straightened out).
Especially in the later books he seemed to be grooming Vimes as a replacement for himself as the manipulative bastard that keeps the city running.
But then, it has been entirely too long since I've read Discworld, so I may be remembering wrong... Will have to correct that.
They were both Young Turks during the Glorious Revolution of the 25th of May.
Truth, Justice, Reasonably Priced Love, and a Hard-Boiled Egg.
I've always interpreted it as they're similar in age but Vimes has 'aged' more due to how his life has gone, so he comes across older than Vetinari.
However there is also a an occasional subtle hint that Vetinari is either entertaining or has already entertained taking his relationship with Lady Margolotta a step further, shall we say. In the Fifth Element she bemusedly remarks he should be pretty old by now, and I want to say in Making Money there was something along those lines too. I don't really put much stock in it, I personally think its pretty clear that he's not a vampire, but there a tiny bit of wiggle room.
Up at dawn, avoid alcohol, throw three mimes in the scorpion pits a day.
"Learn the Words"
[Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
+9
David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
I always saw Vetinari as the pendant to that outside hiree by an established company that's 20 years younger than the rest of management and actually knows what he's doing.
The guild leaders knew what they had with the likes of Mad Lord Snapcase and Homicidal Lord Winder, simple men prone to bouts of excitement, and all of a sudden they have to contend with this new Patrician who's younger than all of them, dreadfully boring by comparison and, worst of all, competent.
I always saw Vetinari as the pendant to that outside hiree by an established company that's 20 years younger than the rest of management and actually knows what he's doing.
The guild leaders knew what they had with the likes of Mad Lord Snapcase and Homicidal Lord Winder, simple men prone to bouts of excitement, and all of a sudden they have to contend with this new Patrician who's younger than all of them, dreadfully boring by comparison and, worst of all, competent.
It see it much the same. I also reconcile the Fat Patrician from the first few books(Colour of magic up until Mort) as Vetinari playing the part of a stupid fat trust fund kind that was elected as a easy puppet by the Guilds. The kind of malleable young pawn that senior guild leaders could "guide" to make decisions that was to their best interest. A George W Bush Type or a nicer Trump. Aka Mustrum Ridcully as patrician for Ankh Morpork.
Once in power, he returns to his old diet and one day the guild wakes up and asks themselves who is this tall thin and sinister man in the Oblong Office. Like the Thieves guild had no problem taking advantage of the Fat idiot who legalized them, but now he is talking about how he knows where they live. He probably spends the first few years in office pretending to be manipulated by guilds, arranging for them to think somebody else has manipulated him if he makes a decision they don't like. Until it becomes clear that not only wasn't he dancing to anybody else tune, but he now knows what the Guild leaders want most of all. (Shout out to Order of the Stick's Lord Song).
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
I always saw Vetinari as the pendant to that outside hiree by an established company that's 20 years younger than the rest of management and actually knows what he's doing.
The guild leaders knew what they had with the likes of Mad Lord Snapcase and Homicidal Lord Winder, simple men prone to bouts of excitement, and all of a sudden they have to contend with this new Patrician who's younger than all of them, dreadfully boring by comparison and, worst of all, competent.
It see it much the same. I also reconcile the Fat Patrician from the first few books(Colour of magic up until Mort) as Vetinari playing the part of a stupid fat trust fund kind that was elected as a easy puppet by the Guilds. The kind of malleable young pawn that senior guild leaders could "guide" to make decisions that was to their best interest. A George W Bush Type or a nicer Trump. Aka Mustrum Ridcully as patrician for Ankh Morpork.
Once in power, he returns to his old diet and one day the guild wakes up and asks themselves who is this tall thin and sinister man in the Oblong Office. Like the Thieves guild had no problem taking advantage of the Fat idiot who legalized them, but now he is talking about how he knows where they live. He probably spends the first few years in office pretending to be manipulated by guilds, arranging for them to think somebody else has manipulated him if he makes a decision they don't like. Until it becomes clear that not only wasn't he dancing to anybody else tune, but he now knows what the Guild leaders want most of all. (Shout out to Order of the Stick's Lord Song).
I thought the Patrician in the first few books was Lord Snapcase, and then Vetinari... succeeded him in an untold manner?
Mostly because it made the writing more fun. Same with the Archchancellor no longer being killed off ever semester to make room at the top.
I always saw Vetinari as the pendant to that outside hiree by an established company that's 20 years younger than the rest of management and actually knows what he's doing.
The guild leaders knew what they had with the likes of Mad Lord Snapcase and Homicidal Lord Winder, simple men prone to bouts of excitement, and all of a sudden they have to contend with this new Patrician who's younger than all of them, dreadfully boring by comparison and, worst of all, competent.
It see it much the same. I also reconcile the Fat Patrician from the first few books(Colour of magic up until Mort) as Vetinari playing the part of a stupid fat trust fund kind that was elected as a easy puppet by the Guilds. The kind of malleable young pawn that senior guild leaders could "guide" to make decisions that was to their best interest. A George W Bush Type or a nicer Trump. Aka Mustrum Ridcully as patrician for Ankh Morpork.
Once in power, he returns to his old diet and one day the guild wakes up and asks themselves who is this tall thin and sinister man in the Oblong Office. Like the Thieves guild had no problem taking advantage of the Fat idiot who legalized them, but now he is talking about how he knows where they live. He probably spends the first few years in office pretending to be manipulated by guilds, arranging for them to think somebody else has manipulated him if he makes a decision they don't like. Until it becomes clear that not only wasn't he dancing to anybody else tune, but he now knows what the Guild leaders want most of all. (Shout out to Order of the Stick's Lord Song).
I thought the Patrician in the first few books was Lord Snapcase, and then Vetinari... succeeded him in an untold manner?
Mostly because it made the writing more fun. Same with the Archchancellor no longer being killed off ever semester to make room at the top.
Pratchett's offical word was that it was Vetinari in all the books, just written by a younger, stupider writer (Or words to those effect) to memory. Personally, i just headcannon it as Vetinari playing the long game initally.
Also re: Vimes - my take was always that he just hates people... but he's quite fond of individuals (once they're proved they're worth his time). He's on good terms with people like Munstrum, and that would not happen if he wasn't able to see past Munstrum's windbag persona. Plus, look at how he treats AE - Semi-toelrance, plays a prank out of frustration/stress, and when AE steps up and then some? The appropriate form of address is Mister Vimes, AE.
He's an amazing Vetinari but I always had him with dark hair in my reads
iirc at one point Moist, or maybe Vimes, idly wonders if it's true that Vetinari dyes his hair, and then immediately decides that there is absolutely no way they will ever ask him that question.
Paul Kidby's art is so intertwined in my mind with the books now that there are probably some descriptions that I got from the illustrations as much as the text
A female non-Esk wizard hmm that's a big wrench to throw in.
I don't know, I mean each individual character alteration, big or small, is ok (Throat I think is the only one I'd label a clear mistake) but you look at them all together and... I don't know. Still hopeful but it's starting to feel like change for the sake of change, if that makes sense. Praying the narrative can hold it up.
A female non-Esk wizard hmm that's a big wrench to throw in.
I don't know, I mean each individual character alteration, big or small, is ok (Throat I think is the only one I'd label a clear mistake) but you look at them all together and... I don't know. Still hopeful but it's starting to feel like change for the sake of change, if that makes sense. Praying the narrative can hold it up.
It feels like they aren't making Discworld so much as wanting to use the same setting and names for something else entirely.
Posts
I guess it's also because Colon is trying to do the right thing, even when he is too stupid and ignorant to know what it is, is used for comic relief, and, most importantly, is not presented as a model or someone worth emulating. I don't have the book with me, but Vetinari resumes Colon and his role perfectly in Jingo.
cast Charles Dance as Vetinari.
Vimes says he doesn’t like dwarfs much, but then goes on to say he doesn’t like Trolls or Humans much either.
I think that theme is repeated whenever he interacts with a new species.
However he does strongly believe that when it comes to the law/justice everyone should be equal. His real hatred is for those who believe themselves to be above the law.
They already did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CjutE9wffY
Vimes is less of a racist than he is a misanthrope.
Also that fades as he stops being a bitter solitary alcoholic who has nothing in his life.
Yeah, but they all suck.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Bruce Campbell, duh.
And even then, he still gives one a chance despite not trusting her (and she warrants that lack as it ends up she was spying), and then STILL hires her onto the Watch afterwards.
I know there are people who have issues with the Going Postal adaptation, but Charles Dance was really good as Vetinari. I would be all on board with him reprising the role.
DO IT AGAIN
Racism is not a problem on the Discworld, because - what with trolls and dwarfs and so on - speciesism is more interesting. Black and white live in perfect harmony and gang up on green.
Or Lance Reddick. I think it was on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me he described himself as frequently being cast as intimidating, vaguely sinister authority figures.
I must have misread, but I always pictured Vetinari as older. Like, in my mind, he's a very father like figure to Vimes (maybe not a nice father, but the one whose study you go to when things need to be straightened out).
Especially in the later books he seemed to be grooming Vimes as a replacement for himself as the manipulative bastard that keeps the city running.
But then, it has been entirely too long since I've read Discworld, so I may be remembering wrong... Will have to correct that.
They were both Young Turks during the Glorious Revolution of the 25th of May.
Truth, Justice, Reasonably Priced Love, and a Hard-Boiled Egg.
However there is also a an occasional subtle hint that Vetinari is either entertaining or has already entertained taking his relationship with Lady Margolotta a step further, shall we say. In the Fifth Element she bemusedly remarks he should be pretty old by now, and I want to say in Making Money there was something along those lines too. I don't really put much stock in it, I personally think its pretty clear that he's not a vampire, but there a tiny bit of wiggle room.
Up at dawn, avoid alcohol, throw three mimes in the scorpion pits a day.
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
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"Learn the Words"
The guild leaders knew what they had with the likes of Mad Lord Snapcase and Homicidal Lord Winder, simple men prone to bouts of excitement, and all of a sudden they have to contend with this new Patrician who's younger than all of them, dreadfully boring by comparison and, worst of all, competent.
Jeremy Irons is Vetinari.
I'd also take a skinny Ian Mcshane.
Steam: adamjnet
It see it much the same. I also reconcile the Fat Patrician from the first few books(Colour of magic up until Mort) as Vetinari playing the part of a stupid fat trust fund kind that was elected as a easy puppet by the Guilds. The kind of malleable young pawn that senior guild leaders could "guide" to make decisions that was to their best interest. A George W Bush Type or a nicer Trump. Aka Mustrum Ridcully as patrician for Ankh Morpork.
Once in power, he returns to his old diet and one day the guild wakes up and asks themselves who is this tall thin and sinister man in the Oblong Office. Like the Thieves guild had no problem taking advantage of the Fat idiot who legalized them, but now he is talking about how he knows where they live. He probably spends the first few years in office pretending to be manipulated by guilds, arranging for them to think somebody else has manipulated him if he makes a decision they don't like. Until it becomes clear that not only wasn't he dancing to anybody else tune, but he now knows what the Guild leaders want most of all. (Shout out to Order of the Stick's Lord Song).
I thought the Patrician in the first few books was Lord Snapcase, and then Vetinari... succeeded him in an untold manner?
Mostly because it made the writing more fun. Same with the Archchancellor no longer being killed off ever semester to make room at the top.
Pratchett's offical word was that it was Vetinari in all the books, just written by a younger, stupider writer (Or words to those effect) to memory. Personally, i just headcannon it as Vetinari playing the long game initally.
Also re: Vimes - my take was always that he just hates people... but he's quite fond of individuals (once they're proved they're worth his time). He's on good terms with people like Munstrum, and that would not happen if he wasn't able to see past Munstrum's windbag persona. Plus, look at how he treats AE - Semi-toelrance, plays a prank out of frustration/stress, and when AE steps up and then some? The appropriate form of address is Mister Vimes, AE.
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iirc at one point Moist, or maybe Vimes, idly wonders if it's true that Vetinari dyes his hair, and then immediately decides that there is absolutely no way they will ever ask him that question.
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
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Kinda makes me want to buy a record player
Lots of new casting info in the thread.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Throat Dibbler as a gang leader rather than a luckless sausage salesman? I'm not sure I buy that.
I don't know, I mean each individual character alteration, big or small, is ok (Throat I think is the only one I'd label a clear mistake) but you look at them all together and... I don't know. Still hopeful but it's starting to feel like change for the sake of change, if that makes sense. Praying the narrative can hold it up.
It feels like they aren't making Discworld so much as wanting to use the same setting and names for something else entirely.