I'll have to get photos posted later, but I got my first ever industrial brick up and running. 4 metal refinery's, 2 plastic presses, 3 kilns, a couple of rock crushers, 5 oil refineries (With automation to turn them off when they're unneeded), and cooling system for the whole thing + my power plant that reclaims power thanks to four steam turbines.
And all the cooling is off the back of a single aquatuner because it turns out those this are nuts for cooling.
Someday, I'm going to get a game going on for long enough to cool my base with Super Coolant.
I'm thinking of retiring my Volcanea base. The Steam Turbines I've relied on to keep afloat on power have sucked pretty much all the heat out of the formerly magma vent below them, and the volcanoes I've dug out within them that aren't dormant are don't seem to produce enough DTU's to "restore" it, or are at least too far from anywhere I can put new turbines and expect them to run (and I haven't gotten enough space resources to feel comfortable to tap metal volcanoes instead) so I'm dealing with constant brownouts despite having one petroleum generator running on ethanol, one on petroleum, and 3 natural gas generators, all with the production and storage to stay up 100% of the time. Only when they've gotten tune-ups by the electrical engineer do I actually generate enough surplus for them to shut off, and that ends when I reconnect the upper parts of my base where all the space machinery is.
Last hurrah will be attempting to make a Petroleum boiler, since in theory all I really need is thermium for pumps, liquid shutoffs and an Aquatuner or two, plus ceramic insulated tiles and pipes for the liquid (I do have about 300kg of Super Coolant; probably not enough to do a sour gas boiler, or at least one that would be able to keep up with an oil well, but at least enough to keep the Aquatuner running enough to boil crude without having to worry about the coolant freezing and maybe cool off the fresh petrol) Only catch is I still have to make the thermium, and while I do have enough of the base space resource and tungsten, molecular forges take 1.6kJ of power to run for a base that's having brownouts... though I might be able to use some smart batteries and a shutoff to make sure it's off the grind so as to not take down anything else if it drains all available power, already did something similar to the systems around the oil refinery and nat gas geysers to make sure they keep running even when the rest of the base is out of power.
If I can make the thermium and the setup works, I effectively double the amount of petroleum I'm getting from the well, enough to run 3 petroleum generators nonstop with more to spare, and only needing sand for a sieve to be completely self-sufficient.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
I do not like the way power rooms work. It takes a lot of dupe time to tune up a machine, and they constantly do it to generators that aren't running, and the buff only seems to last for 3 cycles regardless of use.
I do not like the way power rooms work. It takes a lot of dupe time to tune up a machine, and they constantly do it to generators that aren't running, and the buff only seems to last for 3 cycles regardless of use.
Agreed. I tried them once and didn't see them as being close to worth the Minion time they consume.
I'll have to get photos posted later, but I got my first ever industrial brick up and running. 4 metal refinery's, 2 plastic presses, 3 kilns, a couple of rock crushers, 5 oil refineries (With automation to turn them off when they're unneeded), and cooling system for the whole thing + my power plant that reclaims power thanks to four steam turbines.
And all the cooling is off the back of a single aquatuner because it turns out those this are nuts for cooling.
Someday, I'm going to get a game going on for long enough to cool my base with Super Coolant.
I'm thinking of retiring my Volcanea base. The Steam Turbines I've relied on to keep afloat on power have sucked pretty much all the heat out of the formerly magma vent below them, and the volcanoes I've dug out within them that aren't dormant are don't seem to produce enough DTU's to "restore" it, or are at least too far from anywhere I can put new turbines and expect them to run (and I haven't gotten enough space resources to feel comfortable to tap metal volcanoes instead) so I'm dealing with constant brownouts despite having one petroleum generator running on ethanol, one on petroleum, and 3 natural gas generators, all with the production and storage to stay up 100% of the time. Only when they've gotten tune-ups by the electrical engineer do I actually generate enough surplus for them to shut off, and that ends when I reconnect the upper parts of my base where all the space machinery is.
Last hurrah will be attempting to make a Petroleum boiler, since in theory all I really need is thermium for pumps, liquid shutoffs and an Aquatuner or two, plus ceramic insulated tiles and pipes for the liquid (I do have about 300kg of Super Coolant; probably not enough to do a sour gas boiler, or at least one that would be able to keep up with an oil well, but at least enough to keep the Aquatuner running enough to boil crude without having to worry about the coolant freezing and maybe cool off the fresh petrol) Only catch is I still have to make the thermium, and while I do have enough of the base space resource and tungsten, molecular forges take 1.6kJ of power to run for a base that's having brownouts... though I might be able to use some smart batteries and a shutoff to make sure it's off the grind so as to not take down anything else if it drains all available power, already did something similar to the systems around the oil refinery and nat gas geysers to make sure they keep running even when the rest of the base is out of power.
If I can make the thermium and the setup works, I effectively double the amount of petroleum I'm getting from the well, enough to run 3 petroleum generators nonstop with more to spare, and only needing sand for a sieve to be completely self-sufficient.
I've gotta admit I'm curious how you're plowing through that many resources power wise to hit brownouts - my current base has been handling it power needs off a mix of natural gas and hydrogen - some of it being the excess power+ hydrogen from the spom, the rest being a pair of natural gas geysers and a hydrogen vent.
And now of course, I've added the industrial bank to things, but that's really more power reclamation than generation.
Also, have you checked out Francis John's videos? Pretty sure he's got a petroleum boiler setup that needs no space be materials to make.
I'm thinking of setting one up in my game, or some sort of geothermal plant, but I haven't felt the need. I still need to get sound to tapping the 3 (yes, really) salt water geysers I have access to, as well as the three cool steam geysers. And the cool slush geyser. (This is a very geyser rich map).
One other time I'm curious about - do you really find ethanol power worth it? It seems incredibly intensive to setup, and to really optimize it you'd need to combine it with slickster ranching, given how much c02 the process produces.
I'll have to get photos posted later, but I got my first ever industrial brick up and running. 4 metal refinery's, 2 plastic presses, 3 kilns, a couple of rock crushers, 5 oil refineries (With automation to turn them off when they're unneeded), and cooling system for the whole thing + my power plant that reclaims power thanks to four steam turbines.
And all the cooling is off the back of a single aquatuner because it turns out those this are nuts for cooling.
Someday, I'm going to get a game going on for long enough to cool my base with Super Coolant.
I'm thinking of retiring my Volcanea base. The Steam Turbines I've relied on to keep afloat on power have sucked pretty much all the heat out of the formerly magma vent below them, and the volcanoes I've dug out within them that aren't dormant are don't seem to produce enough DTU's to "restore" it, or are at least too far from anywhere I can put new turbines and expect them to run (and I haven't gotten enough space resources to feel comfortable to tap metal volcanoes instead) so I'm dealing with constant brownouts despite having one petroleum generator running on ethanol, one on petroleum, and 3 natural gas generators, all with the production and storage to stay up 100% of the time. Only when they've gotten tune-ups by the electrical engineer do I actually generate enough surplus for them to shut off, and that ends when I reconnect the upper parts of my base where all the space machinery is.
Last hurrah will be attempting to make a Petroleum boiler, since in theory all I really need is thermium for pumps, liquid shutoffs and an Aquatuner or two, plus ceramic insulated tiles and pipes for the liquid (I do have about 300kg of Super Coolant; probably not enough to do a sour gas boiler, or at least one that would be able to keep up with an oil well, but at least enough to keep the Aquatuner running enough to boil crude without having to worry about the coolant freezing and maybe cool off the fresh petrol) Only catch is I still have to make the thermium, and while I do have enough of the base space resource and tungsten, molecular forges take 1.6kJ of power to run for a base that's having brownouts... though I might be able to use some smart batteries and a shutoff to make sure it's off the grind so as to not take down anything else if it drains all available power, already did something similar to the systems around the oil refinery and nat gas geysers to make sure they keep running even when the rest of the base is out of power.
If I can make the thermium and the setup works, I effectively double the amount of petroleum I'm getting from the well, enough to run 3 petroleum generators nonstop with more to spare, and only needing sand for a sieve to be completely self-sufficient.
I've gotta admit I'm curious how you're plowing through that many resources power wise to hit brownouts - my current base has been handling it power needs off a mix of natural gas and hydrogen - some of it being the excess power+ hydrogen from the spom, the rest being a pair of natural gas geysers and a hydrogen vent.
And now of course, I've added the industrial bank to things, but that's really more power reclamation than generation.
Also, have you checked out Francis John's videos? Pretty sure he's got a petroleum boiler setup that needs no space be materials to make.
I'm thinking of setting one up in my game, or some sort of geothermal plant, but I haven't felt the need. I still need to get sound to tapping the 3 (yes, really) salt water geysers I have access to, as well as the three cool steam geysers. And the cool slush geyser. (This is a very geyser rich map).
One other time I'm curious about - do you really find ethanol power worth it? It seems incredibly intensive to setup, and to really optimize it you'd need to combine it with slickster ranching, given how much c02 the process produces.
Two biggest draws are Aquatuners and Gas pumps, they make up nearly half my typical power needs per cycle. I actually have to run the cooling loop that keeps everything from overheat through two aquatuners, more or less on opposite sides of the base, or the temprature starts to creep up each cycle until things start to fry or stop growing. You got to remember, *everything* outside the bottom half of my base, except for the path to the frozen (well, formerly frozen) biome is at least hot enough to fry anything not made from steel, and most of it is steam at about 10-20+ kg per tile, so the heat has no problem bleeding through anything that isn't insulated tile, especially if it's an airlock instead of a waterlock (I mean, I had to make corridors of insulated tile to oil biome so that all the lead inside wouldn't melt when I breached it) After that, one aquatuner to cool the water I'm getting from the steam and salt water geysers once I realized it using it at 70C was basically undoing the whole point of the second aquatuner (all that insulated tile, you see, does a pretty good job of keeping heat *in* as it does *out*), plus a fourth for an experiment to see if I could actually "reclaim" parts of the lower map, cooling to the point that I can set up transit tubes. Conclusion: I'm not going to get anywhere with that idea at a rate I'd be happy with without a few metric tons of Super Coolant, though it has cooled down to the point I could swap out the crude oil for P. Water and not have to run it so much to keep it at a bearable temp for dupes. As for pumps, I got five set up for the two main electrolizers, and two more elsewhere around the base running 24/7 for more oxygen ( With the brownouts, I wasn't generating enough extra oxygen from the electrolyzers to keep all the atmo suits I needed to do basically anything outside the base fully charged with air, never mind making oxylite for space, so next to two of them I put a diffuser or electrolyzer right next to an air pump so I could make sure they would be fully charged) Finally, three more for natural gas sources. Though those are set to automate, I've built up a ton of storage for the ones next to geysers so that they are almost never not running because of a backup when the geyser is active (in fact, one of them, the one I usually drop off the solid methane I get during my space trips for resources, is on the verge of overflowing it's bank and I'm going to have to divert some of it to the other until it goes active... or maybe a 4th generator, considering it's usually about 10 cycles worth and the trip is only 5.5)
I'm actually building my boiler based on one Brothgar did in an older video. It's a nice, compact thing that I'll be able to set up in pretty much the same exact area that the refinery now takes. I actually *did* have a no space material one set up for a while, but it depended on the same lump of volcanic rock that the steam turbines did, so it's not hot enough to boil petroleum anymore (plus I could never quite get the setup right to have the pump not constantly break down and need repair/replacing)
As for Petroleum generators, I usually like them for the polluted water byproduct. If this works, I'm going to be generating about 1,350 Kg of water per cycle, that covers the oil well + an electrolizer, with about 150kg to spare. In this case it might not be as much of a draw, since I have two cool steam vents + the salt water geyser to drawn on, plus a water geyser I haven't dug up yet if I want to do sleet wheat farming or something, but my next base will probably be Badlands, which has no Tidepool biomes (unless you get subsurface Ocean) or Slime biomes, from what I understand means it will be missing the normal guaranteed salt water geyser and possibly one of the two guaranteed cool steam vents as well. And one cool steam vent, on average, will be enough for 1 1/2 electrolyzers, and that's it. As for CO2, I usually just run a bunch of skimmers, Haven't done slicksters, though from what I understand without a CO2 vent you're going to struggle keeping them hot enough to not breed longhairs, and unless it's going into a sour gas boiler, only molten slicksters will give you enough net power in return to cover pumping the CO2 from the generator in the first place, though I guess they do produce as much food as hatches... That said, one of the reasons I tried that reclamation project form earlier was to gain easy access to a CO2 vent right next to my base, where one could, in theory, build a power station and have the excess CO2 just float down on it's own.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
So still haven't gotten my steam vent water cooler to work, which means I am also less inclined to try a salt water boiler/cooler setup.
Easier to just make an easy big block cooler and put it near them, and filter the salt water with a desalinator. Uses more power but currently I have more than enough.
I do not like the way power rooms work. It takes a lot of dupe time to tune up a machine, and they constantly do it to generators that aren't running, and the buff only seems to last for 3 cycles regardless of use.
Lights would make it go faster, as would a dupe with high operation.
In any case, the draw usually isn't that you are generating more power, but are saving on whatever fuel that generator would normally use to keep everything running over the next three cycles, as well as dealing with less heat and CO2. Even if you set it up so the generators you're applying it to run 100% of the time (as long as it's 12 tile big, that room can fit as many or as few generators as you want, and nothing says all your generators have to run on the same smart battery settings), there isn't much point unless it's to make sure other generators don't run as much, because doing the foolish thing I'm doing and getting to the point where you *need* that buff to keep the lights on is just asking for brownouts whenever the buff(s) wear off.
I do not like the way power rooms work. It takes a lot of dupe time to tune up a machine, and they constantly do it to generators that aren't running, and the buff only seems to last for 3 cycles regardless of use.
Lights would make it go faster, as would a dupe with high operation.
In any case, the draw usually isn't that you are generating more power, but are saving on whatever fuel that generator would normally use to keep everything running over the next three cycles, as well as dealing with less heat and CO2. Even if you set it up so the generators you're applying it to run 100% of the time (as long as it's 12 tile big, that room can fit as many or as few generators as you want), there isn't much point unless it's to make sure other generators don't run as much, because doing the foolish thing I'm doing and getting to the point where you *need* that buff to keep the lights on is just asking for brownouts whenever the buff(s) wear off.
Yeah, i'm still working out how to optimize power room designs to include lights. The 15% faster speed buff is pretty signifacnt... but the problem is dupes have a pretty lengthy range that they can apply it from, so i've seen dupes stand outside a power room to apply it. And if you're trying to shove as many generators as possible into a room power room.
I need to do some thinking on it, esp to figure out the automation so i'm not wasting power on the lights when they're not needed. Probably want a motion sensor and channel the dupes through a single entry way, perhaps?
Having finished my first ever industrial brick and then gotten lost in fiddling with it, I've decided to restart - this time with the goal of getting said brick up and running faster. Plus the usual experiments with optimizing.
I also decided to double down on time being cold - glaciers AND frozen core. Already making things interesting, as there's a lot less water available. Going to be interesting when I find the oil biome - it's possible the entire thing will be solid.
On using motion sensors to only power lights when dupes are working; I've noticed that dupes using the ore crusher seem to be invisible to the game world when they use it.
I tried setting up a motion sensor, but the dupe punching the button doesn't trigger it.
So I tried a weight sensor where they're standing, and they don't seem to weigh anything.
Motion sensors pick them up when they're using grooming and shearing stations. Is it just the ore crusher, or am I missing something?
I do not like the way power rooms work. It takes a lot of dupe time to tune up a machine, and they constantly do it to generators that aren't running, and the buff only seems to last for 3 cycles regardless of use.
Lights would make it go faster, as would a dupe with high operation.
In any case, the draw usually isn't that you are generating more power, but are saving on whatever fuel that generator would normally use to keep everything running over the next three cycles, as well as dealing with less heat and CO2. Even if you set it up so the generators you're applying it to run 100% of the time (as long as it's 12 tile big, that room can fit as many or as few generators as you want), there isn't much point unless it's to make sure other generators don't run as much, because doing the foolish thing I'm doing and getting to the point where you *need* that buff to keep the lights on is just asking for brownouts whenever the buff(s) wear off.
Yeah, i'm still working out how to optimize power room designs to include lights. The 15% faster speed buff is pretty signifacnt... but the problem is dupes have a pretty lengthy range that they can apply it from, so i've seen dupes stand outside a power room to apply it. And if you're trying to shove as many generators as possible into a room power room.
I need to do some thinking on it, esp to figure out the automation so i'm not wasting power on the lights when they're not needed. Probably want a motion sensor and channel the dupes through a single entry way, perhaps?
Having finished my first ever industrial brick and then gotten lost in fiddling with it, I've decided to restart - this time with the goal of getting said brick up and running faster. Plus the usual experiments with optimizing.
I also decided to double down on time being cold - glaciers AND frozen core. Already making things interesting, as there's a lot less water available. Going to be interesting when I find the oil biome - it's possible the entire thing will be solid.
I think you can make sure they're inside with the power control station at the entrance followed by a nat gas generator. Has to be from the correct side as well (want to say right?) To take advantage of the generator's 4 tile width and the fact it means the tile the dupe interacts with is off center.
I've also found that to maximize the tune-up's up time, you need the dupe who you expect to do the tune ups also be completely banned from entering the industrial block, and/or have enough dupes that prioritizes operating jobs that you can afford to set the priorities for everything in your block to 4. This is because the priority setting for the control station is *only* for crafting microchips, and actually applying is based on the generator... and other than coal and wood generators, you can't set the priority, so it's always the default 5 (even if you set it to deconstruct, priority 9, and then turn it off, it still will be set to 5 for tune ups) so if you have a bunch of operating jobs that are priority 6 or higher, your dupes will never get to them.
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DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
I started a new run on the cold map and boy is that a different experience having to deal with the encroaching cold rather than eventual heat buildup. I'm about to breach a steam vent to get a bit of warmth into my base, will probably have to run a heating loop to start things off. Also not sure if I'll run super hot water through my electrolyzers once I set them up since I don't know if I will need to delete heat like in the beginner map.
Once nice thing about the map, all the swamp biomes I've discovered so far are so cold that there is no slime lung, so expansion should be a breeze in that regard.
Hey, what's a great way to generate a lot of CO2 in a hurry?
I had a nice Slickster farm after the printing pod gave me a few eggs, which let me get oil way before I could reach the lower biomes.
I figured I had a massive pit of CO2, so they'd be no problem. Time to focus on tearing apart that massive slime biome on the other side of the base, right?
I grossly underestimated how much these things eat. I check in on them and they're going to start starving in a half-dozen cycles.
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DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
Hey, what's a great way to generate a lot of CO2 in a hurry?
I had a nice Slickster farm after the printing pod gave me a few eggs, which let me get oil way before I could reach the lower biomes.
I figured I had a massive pit of CO2, so they'd be no problem. Time to focus on tearing apart that massive slime biome on the other side of the base, right?
I grossly underestimated how much these things eat. I check in on them and they're going to start starving in a half-dozen cycles.
Launch a petroleum fueled rocket? Otherwise any of the generators (except hydrogen) should do the job. Make sure you don't have an algae plant or skimmer set up in the area as well since they eat CO2.
I'm farming slicksters for a few dregs of oil, I think rockets are beyond my means for the next few hundred cycles.
I figured, but was just thinking of the first time I launched a rocket, it left my bay full of CO2 at 5kg per tile pressure.
I've kind of put that game on the back burner since I am not that good at rocketry or heavy industry yet so it was getting to be a grind but I would like to finish it off someday.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Hey, what's a great way to generate a lot of CO2 in a hurry?
I had a nice Slickster farm after the printing pod gave me a few eggs, which let me get oil way before I could reach the lower biomes.
I figured I had a massive pit of CO2, so they'd be no problem. Time to focus on tearing apart that massive slime biome on the other side of the base, right?
I grossly underestimated how much these things eat. I check in on them and they're going to start starving in a half-dozen cycles.
The wood burner generates a lot of CO2 and heat, perfect to put in a slickster farm.
To the point that I think that's its purpose, its certainly not for generating power.
It sounds like I got slicksters way too early, I don't have the resources for either of those.
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DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
They won't technically starve to death as long as they are getting a little bit of CO2 every day. Every time a critter eats something, even if it is for a few calories it resets the starvation timer. You'll just get annoying messages that critters are starving popping up in your notifications.
It sounds like I got slicksters way too early, I don't have the resources for either of those.
Well, they're both based on lumber. All you really need to get lumber production going is grab some pip eggs and arbor acorns. Shove both in a room and eventually you'll end up with more acorns and more lumber.
Mathwise you need 7.2 trees to feed four distillers running full tilt which in turn is enough to run one petrolem generator. The big issue I have with all this is you usually then eat a ton of the power it would make just to run carbon skimmers to handle everything. On top of what the ethanol distillers etc take.
But if you can figure out a way to sanely combo it with slickster ranching, ideally, molten slickster ranching, you can turn all of that c02 output into even more power for basically free, while saving you power on the skimmers. I haven't crunched the math on that though, but still.
It sounds like I got slicksters way too early, I don't have the resources for either of those.
Well, they're both based on lumber. All you really need to get lumber production going is grab some pip eggs and arbor acorns. Shove both in a room and eventually you'll end up with more acorns and more lumber.
Mathwise you need 7.2 trees to feed four distillers running full tilt which in turn is enough to run one petrolem generator. The big issue I have with all this is you usually then eat a ton of the power it would make just to run carbon skimmers to handle everything. On top of what the ethanol distillers etc take.
But if you can figure out a way to sanely combo it with slickster ranching, ideally, molten slickster ranching, you can turn all of that c02 output into even more power for basically free, while saving you power on the skimmers. I haven't crunched the math on that though, but still.
If you're worried about power, Wood Burners beat ethanol-based petroleum generators once you factor in the skimmers. Pretty much need twice as many skimmers for the whole ethanol setup vs wood, with the generator only being about 4% more power per kg of wood.
However, The real reason you create and burn ethanol, IMO, is for the p. Water and dirt. I almost feel like it's mandatory to run an ethanol based generator to get the P. Dirt to ranch pokeshells, and if you're feeding that P.dirt to sage hatches, then the extra power you get from the coal will cover the extra carbon skimmers you need for how often everything runs about 2.5 times over, even if you are using domesticated arbor trees and need some of the dirt as fertilizer.
It sounds like I got slicksters way too early, I don't have the resources for either of those.
Well, they're both based on lumber. All you really need to get lumber production going is grab some pip eggs and arbor acorns. Shove both in a room and eventually you'll end up with more acorns and more lumber.
Mathwise you need 7.2 trees to feed four distillers running full tilt which in turn is enough to run one petrolem generator. The big issue I have with all this is you usually then eat a ton of the power it would make just to run carbon skimmers to handle everything. On top of what the ethanol distillers etc take.
But if you can figure out a way to sanely combo it with slickster ranching, ideally, molten slickster ranching, you can turn all of that c02 output into even more power for basically free, while saving you power on the skimmers. I haven't crunched the math on that though, but still.
If you're worried about power, Wood Burners beat ethanol-based petroleum generators once you factor in the skimmers. Pretty much need twice as many skimmers for the whole ethanol setup vs wood, with the generator only being about 4% more power per kg of wood.
However, The real reason you create and burn ethanol, IMO, is for the p. Water and dirt. I almost feel like it's mandatory to run an ethanol based generator to get the P. Dirt to ranch pokeshells, and if you're feeding that P.dirt to sage hatches, then the extra power you get from the coal will cover the extra carbon skimmers you need for how often everything runs about 2.5 times over, even if you are using domesticated arbor trees and need some of the dirt as fertilizer.
Less worried about the power, more thinking about ways to reclaim stuff. Personally, i've kinda scrapped using Sage Hatches - i might try ranching pokeshells this run, given this is a run i'm trying to build industry and space, so lime is going to be a priority, but we'll see? As said, i think the way to go with Ehthanol if you're trying to get power is just to feed it to Molten Slicksters. I'll have to take a crack at figuring that out at some point, it sounds like a fun project.
I'm curious, what are people's starting game plans?
Right now, on rime my current stratergy:
Starting dupes: 7 Digging, Mole Hands - my dedicated digger. 3 Consturction, 3 Digging, Molehands - Early game, she Digs. Later on she becomes a dedicated builder. Still tinkering with this - I'm thinkign about just going 7 Construction, Molehands. 7 Science, Quick Learner. Researcher for plowing the research tree. Eventually she's turned into an operator for industry, power, etc.
Super early, i recruit a 7 husbandry dupe, who acts as the dogsbody for the colony. One of my goals is to bumrush hatch ranching asap, and get a pair of 8 hatch ranches up. That lets me feed the colony with eggs and smoothly switch to BBQ often by cycle 60 or so. After that, it's a proper dogsbody (Ideally, athletics 7, becuase they gonna be doing a lot of running), and then a chef who also gets cross trained in decorating. After that i usually hold off on recruiting anyone until i've got stable food production up, then i start recruiting more builders, diggers and dogsbodys in roughly even quantieis - and then eventually i'll recruit a couple more operators. Somewhere in here getting a Drecko ranch up and running for early plastics happens, but that's a more midterm goal.
I've honestly just entirely given up on farming mealwood or whatever - there's SO MUCH buried food between muckroot and hexalent food that it's just so easy to sustain a colony on what you dig up until you get eggs farming up and running. And once you have that up and running it's a small hop skip and jump to get BBQ production. Though i find it's important to have shipping up for that, just to make your egg production go nuts.
Eventually when i get atmosuits done, i tend to make sure i've got a gym installed, and ban any new dupes from doing anything until they're trained to have 3 ranks in research then Exosuit training. One - easy to cross train them into astronauts if i want. But the results give them a CRAZY amount of athletics and operating skill, which makes them very useful in general.
I kinda want to figure out what i'd need to do with automation to make sure gym dupes are always gyming, but i can actually harness the power they make - they generate a LOT over the day.
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
I always try to get a researcher. Getting one with Quick learning is a bonus. Learning also applies to ability gains, so that person ends up being super stated.
Digger as you noted is great, especially with mole hands.
I try to get a farmer/rancher as well, not really for the increased speed but the reduced stress since they usually get hard digging, cooking, decorating etc. as I need those skills and if a suitable dupe doesn't appear.
For skill points, beyond things like digging, cooking etc that actually unlock tasks I prioritize supply and cleaning for the str bonus, and suit wearing (at the end of supply) for the athletics.
Strength is super useful as it makes so many tasks faster just by reducing the trips needed.
Is this a known thing, or have I discovered an exciting new bug? It was fine when I started, this happened a few cycles in.
Whatever it is, it's obscuring air, pipes, wires and doors.
Is this a known thing, or have I discovered an exciting new bug? It was fine when I started, this happened a few cycles in.
Whatever it is, it's obscuring air, pipes, wires and doors.
I saw that flash on and off a couple of times after their performance update but it never stuck around so I would guess it will need a hotfix.
Reddit's got a clearer picture of what it is (why it is is still up for debate): https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/520505280115638272/629174429921837057/unknown.png
It looks like an atmo sensor over something over a logic gate? And turned around?
I wonder if this is like one of those textured cubes you see in behind the camera videos that take apart 3D games to see how they work? Maybe it's used to calibrate textures or something?
I seem to be asking a lot of questions? I don't know why?
It sounds like I got slicksters way too early, I don't have the resources for either of those.
Well, they're both based on lumber. All you really need to get lumber production going is grab some pip eggs and arbor acorns. Shove both in a room and eventually you'll end up with more acorns and more lumber.
Mathwise you need 7.2 trees to feed four distillers running full tilt which in turn is enough to run one petrolem generator. The big issue I have with all this is you usually then eat a ton of the power it would make just to run carbon skimmers to handle everything. On top of what the ethanol distillers etc take.
But if you can figure out a way to sanely combo it with slickster ranching, ideally, molten slickster ranching, you can turn all of that c02 output into even more power for basically free, while saving you power on the skimmers. I haven't crunched the math on that though, but still.
If you're worried about power, Wood Burners beat ethanol-based petroleum generators once you factor in the skimmers. Pretty much need twice as many skimmers for the whole ethanol setup vs wood, with the generator only being about 4% more power per kg of wood.
However, The real reason you create and burn ethanol, IMO, is for the p. Water and dirt. I almost feel like it's mandatory to run an ethanol based generator to get the P. Dirt to ranch pokeshells, and if you're feeding that P.dirt to sage hatches, then the extra power you get from the coal will cover the extra carbon skimmers you need for how often everything runs about 2.5 times over, even if you are using domesticated arbor trees and need some of the dirt as fertilizer.
Less worried about the power, more thinking about ways to reclaim stuff. Personally, i've kinda scrapped using Sage Hatches - i might try ranching pokeshells this run, given this is a run i'm trying to build industry and space, so lime is going to be a priority, but we'll see? As said, i think the way to go with Ehthanol if you're trying to get power is just to feed it to Molten Slicksters. I'll have to take a crack at figuring that out at some point, it sounds like a fun project.
I'm curious, what are people's starting game plans?
Right now, on rime my current stratergy:
Starting dupes: 7 Digging, Mole Hands - my dedicated digger. 3 Consturction, 3 Digging, Molehands - Early game, she Digs. Later on she becomes a dedicated builder. Still tinkering with this - I'm thinkign about just going 7 Construction, Molehands. 7 Science, Quick Learner. Researcher for plowing the research tree. Eventually she's turned into an operator for industry, power, etc.
Super early, i recruit a 7 husbandry dupe, who acts as the dogsbody for the colony. One of my goals is to bumrush hatch ranching asap, and get a pair of 8 hatch ranches up. That lets me feed the colony with eggs and smoothly switch to BBQ often by cycle 60 or so. After that, it's a proper dogsbody (Ideally, athletics 7, becuase they gonna be doing a lot of running), and then a chef who also gets cross trained in decorating. After that i usually hold off on recruiting anyone until i've got stable food production up, then i start recruiting more builders, diggers and dogsbodys in roughly even quantieis - and then eventually i'll recruit a couple more operators. Somewhere in here getting a Drecko ranch up and running for early plastics happens, but that's a more midterm goal.
I've honestly just entirely given up on farming mealwood or whatever - there's SO MUCH buried food between muckroot and hexalent food that it's just so easy to sustain a colony on what you dig up until you get eggs farming up and running. And once you have that up and running it's a small hop skip and jump to get BBQ production. Though i find it's important to have shipping up for that, just to make your egg production go nuts.
Eventually when i get atmosuits done, i tend to make sure i've got a gym installed, and ban any new dupes from doing anything until they're trained to have 3 ranks in research then Exosuit training. One - easy to cross train them into astronauts if i want. But the results give them a CRAZY amount of athletics and operating skill, which makes them very useful in general.
I kinda want to figure out what i'd need to do with automation to make sure gym dupes are always gyming, but i can actually harness the power they make - they generate a LOT over the day.
My starting dupes are usually a digger/builder, a rancher, and a researcher. Next dupes I usually get as good ones appear are a farmer, supply runner, operator/metatronics, a digger who can dig 100% so the first one can build primary and dig when there's no building to be done, eventually a dedicated cook, second operator, second supplier, tidy/repair jockey, and nightshift builder, digger, rancher and cook. I want a rancher ready as soon as I get ranching research, which is why they're part of the starting batch, though in my case most of my early ranching for resources rather than food, ala coal/plastic/lime/arbor seeds, at least until I find some Shove Voles, plus I usually grow my dupe pop too fast for muckroot and wild mealwood to last me until ranching would make enough food.
This "Critters for goods, not food" is especially true in my current Badlands base, since their are no slime biomes, so all my reed fiber has to come from ordinary dreckos. Plus, this map saw fit to split up the starting biome into about 5 or 6 pieces with the "badlands" separating it, so there was no way of getting all the food I needed just from muckroot.
As for making dupes run the wheels forever while still using all the power they generate, that's easy: You have a wheel, a light, and a transformer. Transformer feeds into the main heavy-watt circuit, with the light on the same circuit as the wheel. Since there is a transformer between the wheel and the rest of the generators and their batteries, the dupes will judge the need to run based on that circuit, rather than the entire grid, and since there is no battery on that circuit, they'll insist on having to run the wheel all day long to keep the light running. Then you just keep the whole thing in a room with a door that only the dupes you want training can access, and that should do it.
The other possibility is to set the "when to activate" level for the wheels at 100%, and set the smart batteries that automate your normal generators to 98%, that way the batteries are never technically "full" enough for dupes to stop running the wheels, nor get topped off and kick your dupes off them.
Foefaller on
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DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
For my first 3 dupes I've been using a +7 scientist with quick learning, a +7 digger with mole hands and a +7 creative with interior decorating. The decorator comes first because you can produce a good enough statue after you unlock the level 2 skill to kick a mess hall into a great hall rather than waiting for them to skill up over time. I typically don't get into ranching quick enough to make that one of my first.
I did get a mod to allow you to customize your dupe skills at start so that I don't have to reroll hundreds of times just to get skills I want.
For my first 3 dupes I've been using a +7 scientist with quick learning, a +7 digger with mole hands and a +7 creative with interior decorating. The decorator comes first because you can produce a good enough statue after you unlock the level 2 skill to kick a mess hall into a great hall rather than waiting for them to skill up over time. I typically don't get into ranching quick enough to make that one of my first.
I did get a mod to allow you to customize your dupe skills at start so that I don't have to reroll hundreds of times just to get skills I want.
You can also do it with a flower pot holding a bluff briar.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
So I have an interesting problem that I don't quite know how to solve.
I am building a salt water boiler because of my obsession with cooling water by heating it up instead, which will output hot water and hot salt.
My plan for the salt is then to crush it into hot sand and hot table salt. Hot table salt is not a problem because the weight is negligible, and the hot sand will then be turned into glass.
So I need to design a setup that prevents the dupes from delivering cold salt/sand to the stations and removing hot sand to be used in other parts of the base as filters. Because they will definitely skip using the nice cool sand and instead truck in 100ºC+ sand into my base.
My starting dupes are usually a digger/builder, a rancher, and a researcher. Next dupes I usually get as good ones appear are a farmer, supply runner, operator/metatronics, a digger who can dig 100% so the first one can build primary and dig when there's no building to be done, eventually a dedicated cook, second operator, second supplier, tidy/repair jockey, and nightshift builder, digger, rancher and cook. I want a rancher ready as soon as I get ranching research, which is why they're part of the starting batch, though in my case most of my early ranching for resources rather than food, ala coal/plastic/lime/arbor seeds, at least until I find some Shove Voles, plus I usually grow my dupe pop too fast for muckroot and wild mealwood to last me until ranching would make enough food.
This "Critters for goods, not food" is especially true in my current Badlands base, since their are no slime biomes, so all my reed fiber has to come from ordinary dreckos. Plus, this map saw fit to split up the starting biome into about 5 or 6 pieces with the "badlands" separating it, so there was no way of getting all the food I needed just from muckroot.
So i'm confused here - You're talking like critters for food is mutually exclusives with critters for resources. At least, that's how i'm parsing it. And that it just does not map with my experiences. Like i'm farming hatches for coal early on. Fuel to keep my power grid going, and building up supplies for refined carbon and ceramic later on. And 16 hatches hooked up with some pretty simple automation keeps the ranches healthy while resulting in a veritable BBQ volcano. and before that's setup, an egg volcano.
Also, @Mortious autosweepers and careful use of doors should do the trick? Also having a pit filled with super chilled sand to have your dupes drop things into might work, as due to averaging that'll chill the hot sand when you drop it it in.
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
It'll take some doing, since both the crusher and glass forge are dupe operated.
It's not just the hot material getting out, it's also cool materials getting in when I don't want them to.
So autosweepers are a must, and I might have to decrease the priority of the stations to give the sweepers a chance to load up the machine before the dupes do, and then some sort of way to tell when I run out of materials to disable the machines.
Possibly a weight plate? Smart storage would be easier probably, but I since I will be running 6 aquatuners constantly, I should start being more energy conscious.
It'll take some doing, since both the crusher and glass forge are dupe operated.
It's not just the hot material getting out, it's also cool materials getting in when I don't want them to.
So autosweepers are a must, and I might have to decrease the priority of the stations to give the sweepers a chance to load up the machine before the dupes do, and then some sort of way to tell when I run out of materials to disable the machines.
Possibly a weight plate? Smart storage would be easier probably, but I since I will be running 6 aquatuners constantly, I should start being more energy conscious.
My thought would be to have a central room that's dupe inacessible all your sand is sent to. Then have autosweepers in there that can load stuff onto conveyors and use temp sensors + conveyor shutoffs to sort the sand between cool and hot. Hot stuff is sent to storage in front of the glass forge, so dueps can instnatly grab it, cool stuff is sent to storage elsewhere. Should work?
Honestly though, i'm unsure why you're worrying this much about hot material getting into the base - a good cooling system should handle things fine, and hot materials don't shed that much heat. Usually. Thoguh actually, conveyors can screw with that, so hmm. Eh, worse case, dedicated cooling loop and tempshift plates right where the hot material is created should let you suck the heat out of it and turn it into power. Gotta love the wonderful bullshit that is steam turbines
Re: Number of aquatuners - Have you seen icebox designs? I learned (Much to my annoyance) that one aquatuner can chill an absoloute ton of stuff via icebox designs, rather than having one aquatuner per loop of liquid.
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
It's mostly just efficiency. Seperating the hot stuff to be used in a way to delete the heat just saves that extra bit of cooling, and as such power.
Same reason I setup my metal refineries to reclaim the heat energy and cool the coolant, even though the area I built them in is currently -30°C because I have a big cooling setup there.
I could just run the salt water through a desalinator and cool the entire output (which I am currently doing to the subsurface ocean), but having it as a geyser presents the oppertunity to try and be clever with it.
Watching something like my metal refinery or iron volcano setup run, and not just delete the heat but also power my base a bit, makes me happy.
My starting dupes are usually a digger/builder, a rancher, and a researcher. Next dupes I usually get as good ones appear are a farmer, supply runner, operator/metatronics, a digger who can dig 100% so the first one can build primary and dig when there's no building to be done, eventually a dedicated cook, second operator, second supplier, tidy/repair jockey, and nightshift builder, digger, rancher and cook. I want a rancher ready as soon as I get ranching research, which is why they're part of the starting batch, though in my case most of my early ranching for resources rather than food, ala coal/plastic/lime/arbor seeds, at least until I find some Shove Voles, plus I usually grow my dupe pop too fast for muckroot and wild mealwood to last me until ranching would make enough food.
This "Critters for goods, not food" is especially true in my current Badlands base, since their are no slime biomes, so all my reed fiber has to come from ordinary dreckos. Plus, this map saw fit to split up the starting biome into about 5 or 6 pieces with the "badlands" separating it, so there was no way of getting all the food I needed just from muckroot.
So i'm confused here - You're talking like critters for food is mutually exclusives with critters for resources. At least, that's how i'm parsing it. And that it just does not map with my experiences. Like i'm farming hatches for coal early on. Fuel to keep my power grid going, and building up supplies for refined carbon and ceramic later on. And 16 hatches hooked up with some pretty simple automation keeps the ranches healthy while resulting in a veritable BBQ volcano. and before that's setup, an egg volcano.
Also, Mortious autosweepers and careful use of doors should do the trick? Also having a pit filled with super chilled sand to have your dupes drop things into might work, as due to averaging that'll chill the hot sand when you drop it it in.
It isn't mutually exclusive when you are doing just hatches or pips, but Ranches 2 and 3 for me are pretty much always Dreckos and either Dense Pufts or Pokeshells. Dreckos ranches usually can't be filled without it occupying one rancher by itself, while Pufts and especially Pokeshells are a terrible source of kcal.
It's also a perception of things I probably picked up from playing a lot of EA. When critter ranch first became a thing, the main appeal *was* the non-food resources you could get from them. Part of this was because IIRC mealwood at the time required no resources to grow, even domesticated, and another part was because the way the skill system worked back then, any dupe that was going to ranch *had* to farm to ever unlock the ability to ranch, but arguably the biggest part was because bases were a lot harder to keep perpetually sustainable back then (little to no geysers, and no surface or space travel) and having the tools to ranch pufts for slime to grow mushrooms forever, or breeding all the coal-making hatches you'd ever want, plastic that left more petrol for p.water gushing petroleum generators and phosphorite poop to make fertilizer (back when fertilizer synthesizers made enough nat gas byproduct for 2-3 to power a single generator for a net gain) was much more appealing than the omelettes which at the time were "only" as good as fried mushrooms and BBQ that took pincha peppers and slowed dupes with Soul Food.
Finally, and I think I've mentioned this before, I also value dupe labor enough that I'm willing to take a less-than-efficient method if it means they can spend more time doing things that I find more important. I could sustain about 14 dupes with a pair of ranchers doing nothing but grooming hatches all cycle... or I can feed 20 with one rancher spending half their day with one ranch of hatches and a farmer spend less than half their day fertilizing a Bristle blossom farm. With almost 50% more food at half the labor, for me it's no contest.
Finally, and I think I've mentioned this before, I also value dupe labor enough that I'm willing to take a less-than-efficient method if it means they can spend more time doing things that I find more important. I could sustain about 14 dupes with a pair of ranchers doing nothing but grooming hatches all cycle... or I can feed 20 with one rancher spending half their day with one ranch of hatches and a farmer spend less than half their day fertilizing a Bristle blossom farm. With almost 50% more food at half the labor, for me it's no contest.
I wonder if part of it is that i play on No Sweat, and so that's distorting things a bit due to the reduced calories- because my single rancher def spends so little time caring for the hatches that they do other stuff. But just 16 hatches seem to be a calorie volcano. Though i will note i'm also passive-farming pacu, which means i can very easily produce massive quanities of surf'n'turf (The way i handle it, i ban my dupes from eating Meat, Pacu Fillets or Cooked fish - BBQ and Surf'N'Turf for higher need dupes are fair game).
I mean, mathing that out - each ranched hatch gives me a minimum of 64k calories over it's 100 cycle life span. Or it'll feed a dupe for 64 cycles off it's life span. So realistically, you need 3 hatches per 2 dupes (very Slightly more, actually)
Still. For how easy they are to set up, Hatch ranches are crazy. In the long run, wild Vole farming obviously is going to take over for meat production, but that's a late game thing you do when you have infinite burning hot sand raining form the sky and you need to do something with it.
Passive farming pacu is also kinda stupid good, honestly. Those things are stupid productive for the minimal effort of "Ensure your water tank is pacu accessible from your printing pod". (They're almost impossible to overcrowd, so they always make an egg, and at 25 cycle life span, you get the meat from them pretty fast passively)
Kinda wondering about scrapping even doing dreckos currently, and just going straight to full on plastic production via petroleum. Would probably let me kick in a third ranch for stone hatches, whcih means more coal and yet more egg volcano. Not that that's exactly necessary though. Would free up rancher time to ranch something else, but I've no idea what I'd ranch. Probably pokeshells, actually...
Finally, and I think I've mentioned this before, I also value dupe labor enough that I'm willing to take a less-than-efficient method if it means they can spend more time doing things that I find more important. I could sustain about 14 dupes with a pair of ranchers doing nothing but grooming hatches all cycle... or I can feed 20 with one rancher spending half their day with one ranch of hatches and a farmer spend less than half their day fertilizing a Bristle blossom farm. With almost 50% more food at half the labor, for me it's no contest.
I wonder if part of it is that i play on No Sweat, and so that's distorting things a bit due to the reduced calories- because my single rancher def spends so little time caring for the hatches that they do other stuff. But just 16 hatches seem to be a calorie volcano. Though i will note i'm also passive-farming pacu, which means i can very easily produce massive quanities of surf'n'turf (The way i handle it, i ban my dupes from eating Meat, Pacu Fillets or Cooked fish - BBQ and Surf'N'Turf for higher need dupes are fair game).
I mean, mathing that out - each ranched hatch gives me a minimum of 64k calories over it's 100 cycle life span. Or it'll feed a dupe for 64 cycles off it's life span. So realistically, you need 3 hatches per 2 dupes (very Slightly more, actually)
Still. For how easy they are to set up, Hatch ranches are crazy. In the long run, wild Vole farming obviously is going to take over for meat production, but that's a late game thing you do when you have infinite burning hot sand raining form the sky and you need to do something with it.
Passive farming pacu is also kinda stupid good, honestly. Those things are stupid productive for the minimal effort of "Ensure your water tank is pacu accessible from your printing pod". (They're almost impossible to overcrowd, so they always make an egg, and at 25 cycle life span, you get the meat from them pretty fast passively)
Kinda wondering about scrapping even doing dreckos currently, and just going straight to full on plastic production via petroleum. Would probably let me kick in a third ranch for stone hatches, whcih means more coal and yet more egg volcano. Not that that's exactly necessary though. Would free up rancher time to ranch something else, but I've no idea what I'd ranch. Probably pokeshells, actually...
Yeah, I'm playing on Survival. Dupes only need 500kcal a cycle to survive in No Sweat, so a ranched hatch isn't feed a dupe 64 days per lifespan; it's feeding them for 128.
When every four hatches are feeding five dupes, I bet hatch ranches feel like infinite food.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Finally, and I think I've mentioned this before, I also value dupe labor enough that I'm willing to take a less-than-efficient method if it means they can spend more time doing things that I find more important. I could sustain about 14 dupes with a pair of ranchers doing nothing but grooming hatches all cycle... or I can feed 20 with one rancher spending half their day with one ranch of hatches and a farmer spend less than half their day fertilizing a Bristle blossom farm. With almost 50% more food at half the labor, for me it's no contest.
I wonder if part of it is that i play on No Sweat, and so that's distorting things a bit due to the reduced calories- because my single rancher def spends so little time caring for the hatches that they do other stuff. But just 16 hatches seem to be a calorie volcano. Though i will note i'm also passive-farming pacu, which means i can very easily produce massive quanities of surf'n'turf (The way i handle it, i ban my dupes from eating Meat, Pacu Fillets or Cooked fish - BBQ and Surf'N'Turf for higher need dupes are fair game).
I mean, mathing that out - each ranched hatch gives me a minimum of 64k calories over it's 100 cycle life span. Or it'll feed a dupe for 64 cycles off it's life span. So realistically, you need 3 hatches per 2 dupes (very Slightly more, actually)
Still. For how easy they are to set up, Hatch ranches are crazy. In the long run, wild Vole farming obviously is going to take over for meat production, but that's a late game thing you do when you have infinite burning hot sand raining form the sky and you need to do something with it.
Passive farming pacu is also kinda stupid good, honestly. Those things are stupid productive for the minimal effort of "Ensure your water tank is pacu accessible from your printing pod". (They're almost impossible to overcrowd, so they always make an egg, and at 25 cycle life span, you get the meat from them pretty fast passively)
Kinda wondering about scrapping even doing dreckos currently, and just going straight to full on plastic production via petroleum. Would probably let me kick in a third ranch for stone hatches, whcih means more coal and yet more egg volcano. Not that that's exactly necessary though. Would free up rancher time to ranch something else, but I've no idea what I'd ranch. Probably pokeshells, actually...
Yeah, I'm playing on Survival. Dupes only need 500kcal a cycle to survive in No Sweat, so a ranched hatch isn't feed a dupe 64 days per lifespan; it's feeding them for 128.
When every four hatches are feeding five dupes, I bet hatch ranches feel like infinite food.
I'm actually thinking I might be making things too easy with no sweat mode, because just doing a little reading - the parts of the game that are harder: Temperature management, oxygen, resource generation, are unchanged.
Although maybe morale might kill me without it being chill? I find food to be such an easy thing that I don't even really concern myself with it beyond just setting up the chain.
On second thought - Before I set that chain up, I may run out of initial food. Hmmmm.........
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Someday, I'm going to get a game going on for long enough to cool my base with Super Coolant.
I'm thinking of retiring my Volcanea base. The Steam Turbines I've relied on to keep afloat on power have sucked pretty much all the heat out of the formerly magma vent below them, and the volcanoes I've dug out within them that aren't dormant are don't seem to produce enough DTU's to "restore" it, or are at least too far from anywhere I can put new turbines and expect them to run (and I haven't gotten enough space resources to feel comfortable to tap metal volcanoes instead) so I'm dealing with constant brownouts despite having one petroleum generator running on ethanol, one on petroleum, and 3 natural gas generators, all with the production and storage to stay up 100% of the time. Only when they've gotten tune-ups by the electrical engineer do I actually generate enough surplus for them to shut off, and that ends when I reconnect the upper parts of my base where all the space machinery is.
Last hurrah will be attempting to make a Petroleum boiler, since in theory all I really need is thermium for pumps, liquid shutoffs and an Aquatuner or two, plus ceramic insulated tiles and pipes for the liquid (I do have about 300kg of Super Coolant; probably not enough to do a sour gas boiler, or at least one that would be able to keep up with an oil well, but at least enough to keep the Aquatuner running enough to boil crude without having to worry about the coolant freezing and maybe cool off the fresh petrol) Only catch is I still have to make the thermium, and while I do have enough of the base space resource and tungsten, molecular forges take 1.6kJ of power to run for a base that's having brownouts... though I might be able to use some smart batteries and a shutoff to make sure it's off the grind so as to not take down anything else if it drains all available power, already did something similar to the systems around the oil refinery and nat gas geysers to make sure they keep running even when the rest of the base is out of power.
If I can make the thermium and the setup works, I effectively double the amount of petroleum I'm getting from the well, enough to run 3 petroleum generators nonstop with more to spare, and only needing sand for a sieve to be completely self-sufficient.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Agreed. I tried them once and didn't see them as being close to worth the Minion time they consume.
I've gotta admit I'm curious how you're plowing through that many resources power wise to hit brownouts - my current base has been handling it power needs off a mix of natural gas and hydrogen - some of it being the excess power+ hydrogen from the spom, the rest being a pair of natural gas geysers and a hydrogen vent.
And now of course, I've added the industrial bank to things, but that's really more power reclamation than generation.
Also, have you checked out Francis John's videos? Pretty sure he's got a petroleum boiler setup that needs no space be materials to make.
I'm thinking of setting one up in my game, or some sort of geothermal plant, but I haven't felt the need. I still need to get sound to tapping the 3 (yes, really) salt water geysers I have access to, as well as the three cool steam geysers. And the cool slush geyser. (This is a very geyser rich map).
One other time I'm curious about - do you really find ethanol power worth it? It seems incredibly intensive to setup, and to really optimize it you'd need to combine it with slickster ranching, given how much c02 the process produces.
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Two biggest draws are Aquatuners and Gas pumps, they make up nearly half my typical power needs per cycle. I actually have to run the cooling loop that keeps everything from overheat through two aquatuners, more or less on opposite sides of the base, or the temprature starts to creep up each cycle until things start to fry or stop growing. You got to remember, *everything* outside the bottom half of my base, except for the path to the frozen (well, formerly frozen) biome is at least hot enough to fry anything not made from steel, and most of it is steam at about 10-20+ kg per tile, so the heat has no problem bleeding through anything that isn't insulated tile, especially if it's an airlock instead of a waterlock (I mean, I had to make corridors of insulated tile to oil biome so that all the lead inside wouldn't melt when I breached it) After that, one aquatuner to cool the water I'm getting from the steam and salt water geysers once I realized it using it at 70C was basically undoing the whole point of the second aquatuner (all that insulated tile, you see, does a pretty good job of keeping heat *in* as it does *out*), plus a fourth for an experiment to see if I could actually "reclaim" parts of the lower map, cooling to the point that I can set up transit tubes. Conclusion: I'm not going to get anywhere with that idea at a rate I'd be happy with without a few metric tons of Super Coolant, though it has cooled down to the point I could swap out the crude oil for P. Water and not have to run it so much to keep it at a bearable temp for dupes. As for pumps, I got five set up for the two main electrolizers, and two more elsewhere around the base running 24/7 for more oxygen ( With the brownouts, I wasn't generating enough extra oxygen from the electrolyzers to keep all the atmo suits I needed to do basically anything outside the base fully charged with air, never mind making oxylite for space, so next to two of them I put a diffuser or electrolyzer right next to an air pump so I could make sure they would be fully charged) Finally, three more for natural gas sources. Though those are set to automate, I've built up a ton of storage for the ones next to geysers so that they are almost never not running because of a backup when the geyser is active (in fact, one of them, the one I usually drop off the solid methane I get during my space trips for resources, is on the verge of overflowing it's bank and I'm going to have to divert some of it to the other until it goes active... or maybe a 4th generator, considering it's usually about 10 cycles worth and the trip is only 5.5)
I'm actually building my boiler based on one Brothgar did in an older video. It's a nice, compact thing that I'll be able to set up in pretty much the same exact area that the refinery now takes. I actually *did* have a no space material one set up for a while, but it depended on the same lump of volcanic rock that the steam turbines did, so it's not hot enough to boil petroleum anymore (plus I could never quite get the setup right to have the pump not constantly break down and need repair/replacing)
As for Petroleum generators, I usually like them for the polluted water byproduct. If this works, I'm going to be generating about 1,350 Kg of water per cycle, that covers the oil well + an electrolizer, with about 150kg to spare. In this case it might not be as much of a draw, since I have two cool steam vents + the salt water geyser to drawn on, plus a water geyser I haven't dug up yet if I want to do sleet wheat farming or something, but my next base will probably be Badlands, which has no Tidepool biomes (unless you get subsurface Ocean) or Slime biomes, from what I understand means it will be missing the normal guaranteed salt water geyser and possibly one of the two guaranteed cool steam vents as well. And one cool steam vent, on average, will be enough for 1 1/2 electrolyzers, and that's it. As for CO2, I usually just run a bunch of skimmers, Haven't done slicksters, though from what I understand without a CO2 vent you're going to struggle keeping them hot enough to not breed longhairs, and unless it's going into a sour gas boiler, only molten slicksters will give you enough net power in return to cover pumping the CO2 from the generator in the first place, though I guess they do produce as much food as hatches... That said, one of the reasons I tried that reclamation project form earlier was to gain easy access to a CO2 vent right next to my base, where one could, in theory, build a power station and have the excess CO2 just float down on it's own.
Easier to just make an easy big block cooler and put it near them, and filter the salt water with a desalinator. Uses more power but currently I have more than enough.
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Lights would make it go faster, as would a dupe with high operation.
In any case, the draw usually isn't that you are generating more power, but are saving on whatever fuel that generator would normally use to keep everything running over the next three cycles, as well as dealing with less heat and CO2. Even if you set it up so the generators you're applying it to run 100% of the time (as long as it's 12 tile big, that room can fit as many or as few generators as you want, and nothing says all your generators have to run on the same smart battery settings), there isn't much point unless it's to make sure other generators don't run as much, because doing the foolish thing I'm doing and getting to the point where you *need* that buff to keep the lights on is just asking for brownouts whenever the buff(s) wear off.
Yeah, i'm still working out how to optimize power room designs to include lights. The 15% faster speed buff is pretty signifacnt... but the problem is dupes have a pretty lengthy range that they can apply it from, so i've seen dupes stand outside a power room to apply it. And if you're trying to shove as many generators as possible into a room power room.
I need to do some thinking on it, esp to figure out the automation so i'm not wasting power on the lights when they're not needed. Probably want a motion sensor and channel the dupes through a single entry way, perhaps?
Having finished my first ever industrial brick and then gotten lost in fiddling with it, I've decided to restart - this time with the goal of getting said brick up and running faster. Plus the usual experiments with optimizing.
I also decided to double down on time being cold - glaciers AND frozen core. Already making things interesting, as there's a lot less water available. Going to be interesting when I find the oil biome - it's possible the entire thing will be solid.
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I tried setting up a motion sensor, but the dupe punching the button doesn't trigger it.
So I tried a weight sensor where they're standing, and they don't seem to weigh anything.
Motion sensors pick them up when they're using grooming and shearing stations. Is it just the ore crusher, or am I missing something?
I think you can make sure they're inside with the power control station at the entrance followed by a nat gas generator. Has to be from the correct side as well (want to say right?) To take advantage of the generator's 4 tile width and the fact it means the tile the dupe interacts with is off center.
I've also found that to maximize the tune-up's up time, you need the dupe who you expect to do the tune ups also be completely banned from entering the industrial block, and/or have enough dupes that prioritizes operating jobs that you can afford to set the priorities for everything in your block to 4. This is because the priority setting for the control station is *only* for crafting microchips, and actually applying is based on the generator... and other than coal and wood generators, you can't set the priority, so it's always the default 5 (even if you set it to deconstruct, priority 9, and then turn it off, it still will be set to 5 for tune ups) so if you have a bunch of operating jobs that are priority 6 or higher, your dupes will never get to them.
Once nice thing about the map, all the swamp biomes I've discovered so far are so cold that there is no slime lung, so expansion should be a breeze in that regard.
I had a nice Slickster farm after the printing pod gave me a few eggs, which let me get oil way before I could reach the lower biomes.
I figured I had a massive pit of CO2, so they'd be no problem. Time to focus on tearing apart that massive slime biome on the other side of the base, right?
I grossly underestimated how much these things eat. I check in on them and they're going to start starving in a half-dozen cycles.
Launch a petroleum fueled rocket? Otherwise any of the generators (except hydrogen) should do the job. Make sure you don't have an algae plant or skimmer set up in the area as well since they eat CO2.
I figured, but was just thinking of the first time I launched a rocket, it left my bay full of CO2 at 5kg per tile pressure.
I've kind of put that game on the back burner since I am not that good at rocketry or heavy industry yet so it was getting to be a grind but I would like to finish it off someday.
The wood burner generates a lot of CO2 and heat, perfect to put in a slickster farm.
To the point that I think that's its purpose, its certainly not for generating power.
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Well, they're both based on lumber. All you really need to get lumber production going is grab some pip eggs and arbor acorns. Shove both in a room and eventually you'll end up with more acorns and more lumber.
Mathwise you need 7.2 trees to feed four distillers running full tilt which in turn is enough to run one petrolem generator. The big issue I have with all this is you usually then eat a ton of the power it would make just to run carbon skimmers to handle everything. On top of what the ethanol distillers etc take.
But if you can figure out a way to sanely combo it with slickster ranching, ideally, molten slickster ranching, you can turn all of that c02 output into even more power for basically free, while saving you power on the skimmers. I haven't crunched the math on that though, but still.
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If you're worried about power, Wood Burners beat ethanol-based petroleum generators once you factor in the skimmers. Pretty much need twice as many skimmers for the whole ethanol setup vs wood, with the generator only being about 4% more power per kg of wood.
However, The real reason you create and burn ethanol, IMO, is for the p. Water and dirt. I almost feel like it's mandatory to run an ethanol based generator to get the P. Dirt to ranch pokeshells, and if you're feeding that P.dirt to sage hatches, then the extra power you get from the coal will cover the extra carbon skimmers you need for how often everything runs about 2.5 times over, even if you are using domesticated arbor trees and need some of the dirt as fertilizer.
Less worried about the power, more thinking about ways to reclaim stuff. Personally, i've kinda scrapped using Sage Hatches - i might try ranching pokeshells this run, given this is a run i'm trying to build industry and space, so lime is going to be a priority, but we'll see? As said, i think the way to go with Ehthanol if you're trying to get power is just to feed it to Molten Slicksters. I'll have to take a crack at figuring that out at some point, it sounds like a fun project.
I'm curious, what are people's starting game plans?
Right now, on rime my current stratergy:
Starting dupes: 7 Digging, Mole Hands - my dedicated digger. 3 Consturction, 3 Digging, Molehands - Early game, she Digs. Later on she becomes a dedicated builder. Still tinkering with this - I'm thinkign about just going 7 Construction, Molehands. 7 Science, Quick Learner. Researcher for plowing the research tree. Eventually she's turned into an operator for industry, power, etc.
Super early, i recruit a 7 husbandry dupe, who acts as the dogsbody for the colony. One of my goals is to bumrush hatch ranching asap, and get a pair of 8 hatch ranches up. That lets me feed the colony with eggs and smoothly switch to BBQ often by cycle 60 or so. After that, it's a proper dogsbody (Ideally, athletics 7, becuase they gonna be doing a lot of running), and then a chef who also gets cross trained in decorating. After that i usually hold off on recruiting anyone until i've got stable food production up, then i start recruiting more builders, diggers and dogsbodys in roughly even quantieis - and then eventually i'll recruit a couple more operators. Somewhere in here getting a Drecko ranch up and running for early plastics happens, but that's a more midterm goal.
I've honestly just entirely given up on farming mealwood or whatever - there's SO MUCH buried food between muckroot and hexalent food that it's just so easy to sustain a colony on what you dig up until you get eggs farming up and running. And once you have that up and running it's a small hop skip and jump to get BBQ production. Though i find it's important to have shipping up for that, just to make your egg production go nuts.
Eventually when i get atmosuits done, i tend to make sure i've got a gym installed, and ban any new dupes from doing anything until they're trained to have 3 ranks in research then Exosuit training. One - easy to cross train them into astronauts if i want. But the results give them a CRAZY amount of athletics and operating skill, which makes them very useful in general.
I kinda want to figure out what i'd need to do with automation to make sure gym dupes are always gyming, but i can actually harness the power they make - they generate a LOT over the day.
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Digger as you noted is great, especially with mole hands.
I try to get a farmer/rancher as well, not really for the increased speed but the reduced stress since they usually get hard digging, cooking, decorating etc. as I need those skills and if a suitable dupe doesn't appear.
For skill points, beyond things like digging, cooking etc that actually unlock tasks I prioritize supply and cleaning for the str bonus, and suit wearing (at the end of supply) for the athletics.
Strength is super useful as it makes so many tasks faster just by reducing the trips needed.
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Whatever it is, it's obscuring air, pipes, wires and doors.
Your link got a bit messed up. This might work better: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/112335-game-update-371502/
I saw that flash on and off a couple of times after their performance update but it never stuck around so I would guess it will need a hotfix.
It looks like an atmo sensor over something over a logic gate? And turned around?
I wonder if this is like one of those textured cubes you see in behind the camera videos that take apart 3D games to see how they work? Maybe it's used to calibrate textures or something?
I seem to be asking a lot of questions? I don't know why?
My starting dupes are usually a digger/builder, a rancher, and a researcher. Next dupes I usually get as good ones appear are a farmer, supply runner, operator/metatronics, a digger who can dig 100% so the first one can build primary and dig when there's no building to be done, eventually a dedicated cook, second operator, second supplier, tidy/repair jockey, and nightshift builder, digger, rancher and cook. I want a rancher ready as soon as I get ranching research, which is why they're part of the starting batch, though in my case most of my early ranching for resources rather than food, ala coal/plastic/lime/arbor seeds, at least until I find some Shove Voles, plus I usually grow my dupe pop too fast for muckroot and wild mealwood to last me until ranching would make enough food.
This "Critters for goods, not food" is especially true in my current Badlands base, since their are no slime biomes, so all my reed fiber has to come from ordinary dreckos. Plus, this map saw fit to split up the starting biome into about 5 or 6 pieces with the "badlands" separating it, so there was no way of getting all the food I needed just from muckroot.
As for making dupes run the wheels forever while still using all the power they generate, that's easy: You have a wheel, a light, and a transformer. Transformer feeds into the main heavy-watt circuit, with the light on the same circuit as the wheel. Since there is a transformer between the wheel and the rest of the generators and their batteries, the dupes will judge the need to run based on that circuit, rather than the entire grid, and since there is no battery on that circuit, they'll insist on having to run the wheel all day long to keep the light running. Then you just keep the whole thing in a room with a door that only the dupes you want training can access, and that should do it.
The other possibility is to set the "when to activate" level for the wheels at 100%, and set the smart batteries that automate your normal generators to 98%, that way the batteries are never technically "full" enough for dupes to stop running the wheels, nor get topped off and kick your dupes off them.
I did get a mod to allow you to customize your dupe skills at start so that I don't have to reroll hundreds of times just to get skills I want.
You can also do it with a flower pot holding a bluff briar.
I am building a salt water boiler because of my obsession with cooling water by heating it up instead, which will output hot water and hot salt.
My plan for the salt is then to crush it into hot sand and hot table salt. Hot table salt is not a problem because the weight is negligible, and the hot sand will then be turned into glass.
So I need to design a setup that prevents the dupes from delivering cold salt/sand to the stations and removing hot sand to be used in other parts of the base as filters. Because they will definitely skip using the nice cool sand and instead truck in 100ºC+ sand into my base.
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So i'm confused here - You're talking like critters for food is mutually exclusives with critters for resources. At least, that's how i'm parsing it. And that it just does not map with my experiences. Like i'm farming hatches for coal early on. Fuel to keep my power grid going, and building up supplies for refined carbon and ceramic later on. And 16 hatches hooked up with some pretty simple automation keeps the ranches healthy while resulting in a veritable BBQ volcano. and before that's setup, an egg volcano.
Also, @Mortious autosweepers and careful use of doors should do the trick? Also having a pit filled with super chilled sand to have your dupes drop things into might work, as due to averaging that'll chill the hot sand when you drop it it in.
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It's not just the hot material getting out, it's also cool materials getting in when I don't want them to.
So autosweepers are a must, and I might have to decrease the priority of the stations to give the sweepers a chance to load up the machine before the dupes do, and then some sort of way to tell when I run out of materials to disable the machines.
Possibly a weight plate? Smart storage would be easier probably, but I since I will be running 6 aquatuners constantly, I should start being more energy conscious.
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My thought would be to have a central room that's dupe inacessible all your sand is sent to. Then have autosweepers in there that can load stuff onto conveyors and use temp sensors + conveyor shutoffs to sort the sand between cool and hot. Hot stuff is sent to storage in front of the glass forge, so dueps can instnatly grab it, cool stuff is sent to storage elsewhere. Should work?
Honestly though, i'm unsure why you're worrying this much about hot material getting into the base - a good cooling system should handle things fine, and hot materials don't shed that much heat. Usually. Thoguh actually, conveyors can screw with that, so hmm. Eh, worse case, dedicated cooling loop and tempshift plates right where the hot material is created should let you suck the heat out of it and turn it into power. Gotta love the wonderful bullshit that is steam turbines
Re: Number of aquatuners - Have you seen icebox designs? I learned (Much to my annoyance) that one aquatuner can chill an absoloute ton of stuff via icebox designs, rather than having one aquatuner per loop of liquid.
Francis John has a pretty good video on temp managment here:
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Same reason I setup my metal refineries to reclaim the heat energy and cool the coolant, even though the area I built them in is currently -30°C because I have a big cooling setup there.
I could just run the salt water through a desalinator and cool the entire output (which I am currently doing to the subsurface ocean), but having it as a geyser presents the oppertunity to try and be clever with it.
Watching something like my metal refinery or iron volcano setup run, and not just delete the heat but also power my base a bit, makes me happy.
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It isn't mutually exclusive when you are doing just hatches or pips, but Ranches 2 and 3 for me are pretty much always Dreckos and either Dense Pufts or Pokeshells. Dreckos ranches usually can't be filled without it occupying one rancher by itself, while Pufts and especially Pokeshells are a terrible source of kcal.
It's also a perception of things I probably picked up from playing a lot of EA. When critter ranch first became a thing, the main appeal *was* the non-food resources you could get from them. Part of this was because IIRC mealwood at the time required no resources to grow, even domesticated, and another part was because the way the skill system worked back then, any dupe that was going to ranch *had* to farm to ever unlock the ability to ranch, but arguably the biggest part was because bases were a lot harder to keep perpetually sustainable back then (little to no geysers, and no surface or space travel) and having the tools to ranch pufts for slime to grow mushrooms forever, or breeding all the coal-making hatches you'd ever want, plastic that left more petrol for p.water gushing petroleum generators and phosphorite poop to make fertilizer (back when fertilizer synthesizers made enough nat gas byproduct for 2-3 to power a single generator for a net gain) was much more appealing than the omelettes which at the time were "only" as good as fried mushrooms and BBQ that took pincha peppers and slowed dupes with Soul Food.
Finally, and I think I've mentioned this before, I also value dupe labor enough that I'm willing to take a less-than-efficient method if it means they can spend more time doing things that I find more important. I could sustain about 14 dupes with a pair of ranchers doing nothing but grooming hatches all cycle... or I can feed 20 with one rancher spending half their day with one ranch of hatches and a farmer spend less than half their day fertilizing a Bristle blossom farm. With almost 50% more food at half the labor, for me it's no contest.
I wonder if part of it is that i play on No Sweat, and so that's distorting things a bit due to the reduced calories- because my single rancher def spends so little time caring for the hatches that they do other stuff. But just 16 hatches seem to be a calorie volcano. Though i will note i'm also passive-farming pacu, which means i can very easily produce massive quanities of surf'n'turf (The way i handle it, i ban my dupes from eating Meat, Pacu Fillets or Cooked fish - BBQ and Surf'N'Turf for higher need dupes are fair game).
I mean, mathing that out - each ranched hatch gives me a minimum of 64k calories over it's 100 cycle life span. Or it'll feed a dupe for 64 cycles off it's life span. So realistically, you need 3 hatches per 2 dupes (very Slightly more, actually)
Still. For how easy they are to set up, Hatch ranches are crazy. In the long run, wild Vole farming obviously is going to take over for meat production, but that's a late game thing you do when you have infinite burning hot sand raining form the sky and you need to do something with it.
Passive farming pacu is also kinda stupid good, honestly. Those things are stupid productive for the minimal effort of "Ensure your water tank is pacu accessible from your printing pod". (They're almost impossible to overcrowd, so they always make an egg, and at 25 cycle life span, you get the meat from them pretty fast passively)
Kinda wondering about scrapping even doing dreckos currently, and just going straight to full on plastic production via petroleum. Would probably let me kick in a third ranch for stone hatches, whcih means more coal and yet more egg volcano. Not that that's exactly necessary though. Would free up rancher time to ranch something else, but I've no idea what I'd ranch. Probably pokeshells, actually...
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Yeah, I'm playing on Survival. Dupes only need 500kcal a cycle to survive in No Sweat, so a ranched hatch isn't feed a dupe 64 days per lifespan; it's feeding them for 128.
When every four hatches are feeding five dupes, I bet hatch ranches feel like infinite food.
I'm actually thinking I might be making things too easy with no sweat mode, because just doing a little reading - the parts of the game that are harder: Temperature management, oxygen, resource generation, are unchanged.
Although maybe morale might kill me without it being chill? I find food to be such an easy thing that I don't even really concern myself with it beyond just setting up the chain.
On second thought - Before I set that chain up, I may run out of initial food. Hmmmm.........