Marco Rubio said essentially the same thing when asked by reporters about it. That Trump was trolling the media and it wasn't a serious request and they were all falling for it. I don't think I saw the reporters response to that answer (or if he even had one) but he should have then asked Rubio if that means people should just not believe anything Trump says.
"You can't impeach Trump because he was just kidding." doesn't' seem like a very strong defense.
The issue is it's impossible to tell when he's just trolling and when he's serious.
Probably because he's always serious.
And the Presidency isn’t the kind of job where you get to just casually fuck with people.
Bidens firm* (but not Biden) did receive a 1.5 billion dollar investment (not payment) from a Chinese firm/aligned organization. That is where the number comes from
*or maybe it was a wealth management firm that the lawfirm that Biden works for got it i am not sure exactly.
Marco Rubio said essentially the same thing when asked by reporters about it. That Trump was trolling the media and it wasn't a serious request and they were all falling for it. I don't think I saw the reporters response to that answer (or if he even had one) but he should have then asked Rubio if that means people should just not believe anything Trump says.
"You can't impeach Trump because he was just kidding." doesn't' seem like a very strong defense.
The issue is it's impossible to tell when he's just trolling and when he's serious.
Probably because he's always serious.
Either he's serious, or he's got the worst comedic timing on the planet. Like if Kevin Spacey and Harvey Weinstein did a tour built completely about making sexual assault jokes. And not self-deprecating jokes either.
And few people, even his allies, know if Trump is joking or not. Even Rubio seems unsure, because he's afraid if he definitively declares it's a joke, and Trump demands it isn't (which has happened more than a couple times already) he looks like an even bigger tool.
And Rubio's built a reputation around being a small tool. A small, spineless tool. Spackle, maybe.
Just saw a Trump campaign commercial on CNN showing that clip of Biden talking about how he told Ukraine that they need to fire a prosecutor or they get no money, then some quote from said prosecutor claiming he was fired for investigating Hunter Biden, then a declaration that Democrats are trying to impeach Trump for simply asking Ukraine about it.
This is Biden's "her emails" moment and impeachment will be elevating it into the consciousnesses of every American household twisted by Trump's lies.
I'm so very glad that we have a large field vying to run against Trump this year, and we still have options with early frontrunners starting to look substantially vulnerable.
It's a good thing that sound bites in political ads are always true.
Marco Rubio said essentially the same thing when asked by reporters about it. That Trump was trolling the media and it wasn't a serious request and they were all falling for it. I don't think I saw the reporters response to that answer (or if he even had one) but he should have then asked Rubio if that means people should just not believe anything Trump says.
"You can't impeach Trump because he was just kidding." doesn't' seem like a very strong defense.
The issue is it's impossible to tell when he's just trolling and when he's serious.
Probably because he's always serious.
Those are not mutually exclusive.
EDIT:
Also, the "Trump was only joking" is commonly understood to be Shrodinger's joke. It's only a joke when your audience is offended.
The "second hand information" thing has always just been a gish gallop attempt to spread more confusion, even though nobody really doubts that this conversation happened exactly as described. A second whistleblower probably defeats that argument, but they've got lots more. Maybe it helps with perception though that more people keep coming forward against Trump. The more the tides appear to be turning, the more likely it is that the GOP cuts him loose.
The "second hand information" thing has always just been a gish gallop attempt to spread more confusion, even though nobody really doubts that this conversation happened exactly as described. A second whistleblower probably defeats that argument, but they've got lots more. Maybe it helps with perception though that more people keep coming forward against Trump. The more the tides appear to be turning, the more likely it is that the GOP cuts him loose.
The second hand information thing never made sense because they released an official direct summary of the phone call, and it was worse than what the whistleblower suggested it might be.
You think they mailed out new talking to points to all the GOP senators? "If you pressured, just say Trump was only maybe kidding (unless he wasn't)"
This is definitely a thing that happens, and all flimsy denial of that went away when they sent it to the wrong list a couple weeks back and the Democrats got it first.
You think they mailed out new talking to points to all the GOP senators? "If you pressured, just say Trump was only maybe kidding (unless he wasn't)"
You know the GOP are feverishly pressuring Whitd House aides to tell Trump "Please, for the love of God, say you were joking!".
And even if he does say that, and even if the media buy that, and even if he doesn't double down on it tomorrow, it still changes absolutely nothing.
Because China is like the 8th thing wrong here. He still pressured the Ukranian President for interference in domestic politics. Anything else is just extra impeachment.
You think they mailed out new talking to points to all the GOP senators? "If you pressured, just say Trump was only maybe kidding (unless he wasn't)"
You know the GOP are feverishly pressuring Whitd House aides to tell Trump "Please, for the love of God, say you were joking!".
And even if he does say that, and even if the media buy that, and even if he doesn't double down on it tomorrow, it still changes absolutely nothing.
Because China is like the 8th thing wrong here. He still pressured the Ukranian President for interference in domestic politics. Anything else is just extra impeachment.
The main dynamic here is that Trump hates the GOP leadership, and the base loves Trump. So, they protect him, but he does not give a shit about them.
+6
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MeeqeLord of the pants most fancySomeplace amazingRegistered Userregular
They are throwing anything and everything at the wall right now, just to see what sticks. That the litany of excuses has continued to flail finding something that will stick in the face of growing support for impeachment means that, on the whole, the GOP attempts to control narrative aren't working outside their base. Good news to me at least.
Just saw a Trump campaign commercial on CNN showing that clip of Biden talking about how he told Ukraine that they need to fire a prosecutor or they get no money, then some quote from said prosecutor claiming he was fired for investigating Hunter Biden, then a declaration that Democrats are trying to impeach Trump for simply asking Ukraine about it.
This is Biden's "her emails" moment and impeachment will be elevating it into the consciousnesses of every American household twisted by Trump's lies.
I'm so very glad that we have a large field vying to run against Trump this year, and we still have options with early frontrunners starting to look substantially vulnerable.
I find the "he is not serious" or "he did not literally mean that" argument infuriating because the GOP tried it several times and failed because Trump kept saying he was serious. Like the border wall. Or gestapo like immigration enforcement.
They are throwing anything and everything at the wall right now, just to see what sticks. That the litany of excuses has continued to flail finding something that will stick in the face of growing support for impeachment means that, on the whole, the GOP attempts to control narrative aren't working outside their base. Good news to me at least.
Their base is probably still at the false "he did not mention Biden in the call" talking point stage.
Marco Rubio said essentially the same thing when asked by reporters about it. That Trump was trolling the media and it wasn't a serious request and they were all falling for it. I don't think I saw the reporters response to that answer (or if he even had one) but he should have then asked Rubio if that means people should just not believe anything Trump says.
"You can't impeach Trump because he was just kidding." doesn't' seem like a very strong defense.
The issue is it's impossible to tell when he's just trolling and when he's serious.
Probably because he's always serious.
And the Presidency isn’t the kind of job where you get to just casually fuck with people.
It isn't even worth the air spent rebutting it, because we already know he's serious, because he's attempted to do the exact same thing in private.
Marco Rubio said essentially the same thing when asked by reporters about it. That Trump was trolling the media and it wasn't a serious request and they were all falling for it. I don't think I saw the reporters response to that answer (or if he even had one) but he should have then asked Rubio if that means people should just not believe anything Trump says.
"You can't impeach Trump because he was just kidding." doesn't' seem like a very strong defense.
The issue is it's impossible to tell when he's just trolling and when he's serious.
Probably because he's always serious.
And the Presidency isn’t the kind of job where you get to just casually fuck with people.
It isn't even worth the air spent rebutting it, because we already know he's serious, because he's attempted to do the exact same thing in private.
also his continued ALL CAPS insistence that he’s serious
It doesn't matter to Trump's base whether or not he was being serious, they will read it whichever way is most advantageous for them at any given moment.
What matters is how long the fabled "principled Republican" section is going to continue to engage in the same cognitive dissonance because they prefer getting their agendas advanced more than actually sticking by the principles they ostensibly stand for.
If they're actually principled then surely at some point, they will be against Trump's behavior... and they will always have been. Just like with Nixon.
It doesn't matter to Trump's base whether or not he was being serious, they will read it whichever way is most advantageous for them at any given moment.
What matters is how long the fabled "principled Republican" section is going to continue to engage in the same cognitive dissonance because they prefer getting their agendas advanced more than actually sticking by the principles they ostensibly stand for.
If they're actually principled then surely at some point, they will be against Trump's behavior... and they will always have been. Just like with Nixon.
The GOP turning on trump is going to be very much like a mudslide; it looks really benign at first because of how slow it's moving, but as it adds more mass to itself it increases in speed.
My guess is that the handful of GOP critters that have already called out trump on this are the first bits of that hypthetical slide and as more time and evidence comes out trump will rapidly find the senate flipping on him.
When he called himself the chosen one, he was probably joking. When he asked China to investigate Biden he was having a hissy fit and pretty clearly lashing out. He was definitely not joking.
+21
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Mx. QuillI now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually...{They/Them}Registered Userregular
When he called himself the chosen one, he was probably joking. When he asked China to investigate Biden he was having a hissy fit and pretty clearly lashing out. He was definitely not joking.
Being the egotistical nightmare that he is, he most assuredly wasn't joking about being The Chosen One.
The thing that gets to me about all of this is that Trump could have gotten away with all of this shit regarding Hunter if this had been relegated to a lower tier investigation by the justice and state departments; you could have gotten all that you wanted (whatever the hell that might be) without having to directly implicate yourself or your appointees.
But of course that's what someone who had any idea of how to work the system would do if they had like, a year's worth of expierience in government prior to being president.
That's kind of the thing, everything illegal trump has done, there's a completely legal loophole way to do. Even paying off the story on stormy. He just doesn't understand or care, because he's never been held accountable for anything hes ever done. And on the rare occasion it might have, it just put a chip on his shoulder to do worse things later and justify it by what he feels is injustice on him.
When he called himself the chosen one, he was probably joking. When he asked China to investigate Biden he was having a hissy fit and pretty clearly lashing out. He was definitely not joking.
Being the egotistical nightmare that he is, he most assuredly wasn't joking about being The Chosen One.
His base refers to him as such, he was just repeating it. Like how everything else he says comes from the same conspiracy sources.
It doesn't matter to Trump's base whether or not he was being serious, they will read it whichever way is most advantageous for them at any given moment.
What matters is how long the fabled "principled Republican" section is going to continue to engage in the same cognitive dissonance because they prefer getting their agendas advanced more than actually sticking by the principles they ostensibly stand for.
If they're actually principled then surely at some point, they will be against Trump's behavior... and they will always have been. Just like with Nixon.
The GOP turning on trump is going to be very much like a mudslide; it looks really benign at first because of how slow it's moving, but as it adds more mass to itself it increases in speed.
My guess is that the handful of GOP critters that have already called out trump on this are the first bits of that hypthetical slide and as more time and evidence comes out trump will rapidly find the senate flipping on him.
I think what most of these GOP senators will want is camouflage. They need to know that enough of the party is doing it that they won't personally take the blame from the perspective of their voters. If the GOP itself has decided to convict Trump, then if challenged the individual members can say they were reluctant but they stand with the party, etc. That's why it's pretty much an all or nothing thing. Either it happens all at once, or not at all.
There are no principled Republicans. There is no cohesive strategy against impeachment. Trump's administration has almost no one of intelligence as most of those have left or been forced out. Elected Republicans are beholden to the base, and for now that base belongs to Trump.
Thus, what we are seeing is either chaotic flailing or callous self preservation. I don't think any Republican in power really knows what the hell to do. They want to hold onto power and avoid consequences but it's tough (for me at least) to see how that can be accomplished.
Trump has taught the GOP to just weather through all of his dumbass actions, and they'll come out on the other side no worse for wear. They still think 2018 was a fluke (and who knows, they could be right) and they fear primary challenges more than they do democrat challengers. (As I've mentioned, they have a great big playbook for fighting against Democrats; they do not have the first clue how to fight against a strong far-right challenger.)
If the House votes to start impeachment, I'll be genuinely shocked if they manage to get 50 votes in the Senate, let alone anywhere near the 67 needed.
It doesn't matter to Trump's base whether or not he was being serious, they will read it whichever way is most advantageous for them at any given moment.
What matters is how long the fabled "principled Republican" section is going to continue to engage in the same cognitive dissonance because they prefer getting their agendas advanced more than actually sticking by the principles they ostensibly stand for.
If they're actually principled then surely at some point, they will be against Trump's behavior... and they will always have been. Just like with Nixon.
The GOP turning on trump is going to be very much like a mudslide; it looks really benign at first because of how slow it's moving, but as it adds more mass to itself it increases in speed.
My guess is that the handful of GOP critters that have already called out trump on this are the first bits of that hypthetical slide and as more time and evidence comes out trump will rapidly find the senate flipping on him.
When he called himself the chosen one, he was probably joking. When he asked China to investigate Biden he was having a hissy fit and pretty clearly lashing out. He was definitely not joking.
"Just a joke, bro" only gets said once the 'joke' creates backlash. We aren't at that step yet, because the 3 other times he's done this has had no repercussions thus far. That's why statements like 'I am the chosen one' are truly scary in a culture that is just continuously pushing the boundry but ready to step it back if its not accepted. If Trump ever takes a stand, thats when we will get the 'I wasnt serious' response.
Even before this story broke, Trump was pretty much hated by most of the public. It's kind of mystifying that the GOP insists on trying to cover his ass, but then this is the crowd of assclowns that assumes their brand of conservatism can't fail, it can only be failed or cheated. So naturally, they didn't learn anything from 2018. A ton of the pubic had no fucking patience left for Trump or the GOP that was enabling him and this was when most people just considered him to be a giant incompetent, rat fucking, authoritarian, racist, egotistical shit lord. We can now definitively add traitor fucker, that asks foreign powers to rig the elections in his favor to the list. The GOP are fools if they think their current play won't bite them in the ass.
I think they likely do turn on him in the end because the scandal that started this wasn't the worst thing. Now that Trump has essentially made clear that he wants to purge the intel community of all those not deemed loyal enough, most shit is going to come to light. The people in the intel community that were keeping their heads down, now have little reason to do so. Not to mention, there are going to be other agencies full of people say "if being in intelligence won't save your ass. I might as well blow my whistle, while I still have a chance at helping shut this fucker down and keeping my job because if I don't, I'll probably get fired because one of his toadies felt I wasn't being a loyal enough." Of course, by the time they do, the public will find out that so much of Trump's administration was pulling super heinous shit and they'll remember that the GOP bent over backwards to defend him. Once that connection is made, the GOP is going to be in for some very bad times. Methinks, they'll find out that as bad as the pubic memory is, there are times where it crystalizes vividly around an event. Selling your country out, seems like it'll be one of those events; especially, when that is done in the defense of people as loathsome as Trump.
I mean there is a reason the media isn't carrying water for them this time around. It's not just because making the shit lords squirm gets them eyeballs, the media is probably aware enough of the fact that there is likely worse to be revealed and that the public will not be forgiving of those that try to brush this shit storm under the rug.
Impeachment talk hasn't yet had any notable affect on Don's approval rating. I think forecasts of the GOP's imminent demise are overly optimistic.
Unless there's a real slam dunk incoming, I don't see anything changing. It doesn't matter if Trump or the GOP are stupid if the votes keep rewarding them for it.
I've said this before, but my brain cannot escape the logic. If a full blown confession of guilt from Trump only elicits a "meh" from conservatives and independents, then I see no hope for the future. And I know one of these "independent" libertarians. I also can't escape the conclusion that a GOP hopeful will look at Trump and go, "Well if that idiot can do it, then so can I." Then he crowns himself and there's nothing you or I can do about it.
My understanding of independents is that they're usually more right-leaning or left-leaning than the label implies.
Libertarians are functionally Republican-lite in my experience and their stated ideology in no way corresponds to actual practice. They hate Hillary with a sharp loathing, believe soy feminizes men and really do think AOC wants to ban planes. Which means they're the exact crowd that don't really don't care or understand the significance of Trump confessing to a crime. Partly that may be because they are perfectly happy to watch the government burn down because the government is always the Deep State Empire. Federalism is always bad, mmkay. They're only liberal on social issues in a lazy slacktivist lip-service sort of way. They don't vote based on those ideals.
Left-leaning independents are the part of the crowd that will stay home just because Bernie didn't get the nomination. If the Democrats aren't as virtuous and pure as the driven snow, then there is never any compromise for them.
These are the people you're relying on to vote Democrat. And it's winner-takes-all. You don't get anything if these people stay home. 41% approval isn't exactly a large margin of error, with the way the electoral system works.
The Associated Press are reporting that while Trump was urging Ukraine to "investigate corruption" in their country, Giuliani decided to help his friends benefit from a spot of corruption in their country.
BREAKING: As President Trump urged Ukraine’s leaders to investigate his political rival Joe Biden, associates of his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani were looking to profit from the country’s state-run natural gas company, AP sources say.
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And the Presidency isn’t the kind of job where you get to just casually fuck with people.
Bidens firm* (but not Biden) did receive a 1.5 billion dollar investment (not payment) from a Chinese firm/aligned organization. That is where the number comes from
*or maybe it was a wealth management firm that the lawfirm that Biden works for got it i am not sure exactly.
Either he's serious, or he's got the worst comedic timing on the planet. Like if Kevin Spacey and Harvey Weinstein did a tour built completely about making sexual assault jokes. And not self-deprecating jokes either.
And few people, even his allies, know if Trump is joking or not. Even Rubio seems unsure, because he's afraid if he definitively declares it's a joke, and Trump demands it isn't (which has happened more than a couple times already) he looks like an even bigger tool.
And Rubio's built a reputation around being a small tool. A small, spineless tool. Spackle, maybe.
It's a good thing that sound bites in political ads are always true.
Those are not mutually exclusive.
EDIT:
Also, the "Trump was only joking" is commonly understood to be Shrodinger's joke. It's only a joke when your audience is offended.
The second hand information thing never made sense because they released an official direct summary of the phone call, and it was worse than what the whistleblower suggested it might be.
Embarrassed for you
It must be the GOP's new stance.
Jim Jordan said the same thing on This Week this morning.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rep-jim-jordan-trumps-comments-china/story?id=66083374
This is definitely a thing that happens, and all flimsy denial of that went away when they sent it to the wrong list a couple weeks back and the Democrats got it first.
Words matter. Words said by the President of the United States matter. The "it wasn't serious" defense is, or at least should be, a joke in itself.
You know the GOP are feverishly pressuring Whitd House aides to tell Trump "Please, for the love of God, say you were joking!".
And even if he does say that, and even if the media buy that, and even if he doesn't double down on it tomorrow, it still changes absolutely nothing.
Because China is like the 8th thing wrong here. He still pressured the Ukranian President for interference in domestic politics. Anything else is just extra impeachment.
The main dynamic here is that Trump hates the GOP leadership, and the base loves Trump. So, they protect him, but he does not give a shit about them.
Swift Boat Veterans for Ukrainian Extortion
Their base is probably still at the false "he did not mention Biden in the call" talking point stage.
It isn't even worth the air spent rebutting it, because we already know he's serious, because he's attempted to do the exact same thing in private.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
also his continued ALL CAPS insistence that he’s serious
What matters is how long the fabled "principled Republican" section is going to continue to engage in the same cognitive dissonance because they prefer getting their agendas advanced more than actually sticking by the principles they ostensibly stand for.
If they're actually principled then surely at some point, they will be against Trump's behavior... and they will always have been. Just like with Nixon.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
The GOP turning on trump is going to be very much like a mudslide; it looks really benign at first because of how slow it's moving, but as it adds more mass to itself it increases in speed.
My guess is that the handful of GOP critters that have already called out trump on this are the first bits of that hypthetical slide and as more time and evidence comes out trump will rapidly find the senate flipping on him.
Being the egotistical nightmare that he is, he most assuredly wasn't joking about being The Chosen One.
That's kind of the thing, everything illegal trump has done, there's a completely legal loophole way to do. Even paying off the story on stormy. He just doesn't understand or care, because he's never been held accountable for anything hes ever done. And on the rare occasion it might have, it just put a chip on his shoulder to do worse things later and justify it by what he feels is injustice on him.
His base refers to him as such, he was just repeating it. Like how everything else he says comes from the same conspiracy sources.
I think what most of these GOP senators will want is camouflage. They need to know that enough of the party is doing it that they won't personally take the blame from the perspective of their voters. If the GOP itself has decided to convict Trump, then if challenged the individual members can say they were reluctant but they stand with the party, etc. That's why it's pretty much an all or nothing thing. Either it happens all at once, or not at all.
Thus, what we are seeing is either chaotic flailing or callous self preservation. I don't think any Republican in power really knows what the hell to do. They want to hold onto power and avoid consequences but it's tough (for me at least) to see how that can be accomplished.
If the House votes to start impeachment, I'll be genuinely shocked if they manage to get 50 votes in the Senate, let alone anywhere near the 67 needed.
It's like bankruptcy.
Gradually, and then suddenly.
"Just a joke, bro" only gets said once the 'joke' creates backlash. We aren't at that step yet, because the 3 other times he's done this has had no repercussions thus far. That's why statements like 'I am the chosen one' are truly scary in a culture that is just continuously pushing the boundry but ready to step it back if its not accepted. If Trump ever takes a stand, thats when we will get the 'I wasnt serious' response.
I think they likely do turn on him in the end because the scandal that started this wasn't the worst thing. Now that Trump has essentially made clear that he wants to purge the intel community of all those not deemed loyal enough, most shit is going to come to light. The people in the intel community that were keeping their heads down, now have little reason to do so. Not to mention, there are going to be other agencies full of people say "if being in intelligence won't save your ass. I might as well blow my whistle, while I still have a chance at helping shut this fucker down and keeping my job because if I don't, I'll probably get fired because one of his toadies felt I wasn't being a loyal enough." Of course, by the time they do, the public will find out that so much of Trump's administration was pulling super heinous shit and they'll remember that the GOP bent over backwards to defend him. Once that connection is made, the GOP is going to be in for some very bad times. Methinks, they'll find out that as bad as the pubic memory is, there are times where it crystalizes vividly around an event. Selling your country out, seems like it'll be one of those events; especially, when that is done in the defense of people as loathsome as Trump.
I mean there is a reason the media isn't carrying water for them this time around. It's not just because making the shit lords squirm gets them eyeballs, the media is probably aware enough of the fact that there is likely worse to be revealed and that the public will not be forgiving of those that try to brush this shit storm under the rug.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
But these past three years...
Unless there's a real slam dunk incoming, I don't see anything changing. It doesn't matter if Trump or the GOP are stupid if the votes keep rewarding them for it.
I've said this before, but my brain cannot escape the logic. If a full blown confession of guilt from Trump only elicits a "meh" from conservatives and independents, then I see no hope for the future. And I know one of these "independent" libertarians. I also can't escape the conclusion that a GOP hopeful will look at Trump and go, "Well if that idiot can do it, then so can I." Then he crowns himself and there's nothing you or I can do about it.
Trump isn't the end of all this.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Libertarians are functionally Republican-lite in my experience and their stated ideology in no way corresponds to actual practice. They hate Hillary with a sharp loathing, believe soy feminizes men and really do think AOC wants to ban planes. Which means they're the exact crowd that don't really don't care or understand the significance of Trump confessing to a crime. Partly that may be because they are perfectly happy to watch the government burn down because the government is always the Deep State Empire. Federalism is always bad, mmkay. They're only liberal on social issues in a lazy slacktivist lip-service sort of way. They don't vote based on those ideals.
Left-leaning independents are the part of the crowd that will stay home just because Bernie didn't get the nomination. If the Democrats aren't as virtuous and pure as the driven snow, then there is never any compromise for them.
These are the people you're relying on to vote Democrat. And it's winner-takes-all. You don't get anything if these people stay home. 41% approval isn't exactly a large margin of error, with the way the electoral system works.