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[Impeachment] for ... Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors

monikermoniker Registered User regular
edited October 2019 in Debate and/or Discourse
a55cku7ldezh.jpg



The Constitution wrote:
The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

—Article I, Section II, Clause V
The Constitution wrote:
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

—Article I, Section III, Clauses VI and VII



And so it begins

https://youtu.be/k_Q5sFbZhNc

Transcript:
Speaker of the House of Representatives, the Honorable Nancy Pelosi wrote:
Good afternoon. Last Tuesday, we observed the anniversary of the adoption of the Constitution on September 17.

Sadly, on that day, the Intelligence Community Inspector General formally notified the Congress that the Administration was forbidding him from turning over a whistleblower complaint. On Constitution Day. This is a violation of law.

Shortly thereafter, press reports began to break of a phone call by the President of the United States calling upon a foreign power to intervene in his election. This is a breach of his constitutional responsibilities.

The facts are these: the Intelligence Community Inspector General, who was appointed by President Trump, determined that the complaint is both of ‘urgent concern and credible,’ and its disclosure, he went on to say, that it ‘relates to one of the most significant and important of the Director of National Intelligence’s responsibilities to the American people.’

On Thursday, the Inspector General testified before the House Intelligence Committee, stating that the Acting Director of National Intelligence blocked him from disclosing the whistleblower complaint. This is a violation of the law.

The law is unequivocal. The DNI, it says, the Director of National Intelligence ‘shall’ provide Congress the full whistleblower complaint.

For more than 25 years, I have served on the Intelligence Committee – as a Member, as the Ranking Member, as part of the Gang of 4 even before I was in the Leadership.

I was there when we created the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. That did not exist before 2004.

I was there ever earlier in 90’s when we wrote the whistleblower laws and continue to write them, to improve them to ensure the security of our intelligence and the safety of our whistleblowers.

I know what their purpose was, and we proceeded with balance and caution as we wrote the laws. I can say with authority, that the Trump Administration’s actions undermine both: our national security and our intelligence and our protections of whistleblowers – more than both.

This Thursday, the Acting DNI will appear before the House Intelligence Committee.

At that time, he must turn over the whistleblower’s full complaint to the Committee. He will have to choose whether to break the law or honor his responsibility to the Constitution.

On the final day of the Constitutional Convention in 1787, when our Constitution was adopted, Americans gathered on the steps of Independence Hall to await the news of the government our Founders had crafted.

They asked Benjamin Franklin, ‘What do we have: a republic or a monarchy?’ Franklin replied: ‘A republic, if you can keep it.’

Our responsibility is to keep it.

Our republic endures because of the wisdom of our Constitution, enshrined in three co-equal branches of government, serving as checks and balances on each other.

The actions taken to date by the President have seriously violated the Constitution – especially when the President says, ‘Article II says, I can do whatever I want.’

For the past several months, we have been investigating in our Committees and litigating in the courts, so the House can gather ‘all the relevant facts and consider whether to exercise its full Article I powers, including a constitutional power of the utmost gravity — approval of articles of impeachment.’

And this week, the President has admitted to asking the President of Ukraine to take actions which would benefit him politically. The action of – the actions of the Trump Presidency revealed the dishonorable fact of the President’s betrayal of his oath of office, betrayal of our national security, and betrayal of the integrity of our elections.

Therefore, today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry. I am directing our six Committees to proceed with their investigations under that umbrella of impeachment inquiry.

The President must be held accountable. No one is above the law.

Getting back to our Founders – in the darkest days of the American Revolution, Thomas Paine wrote: ‘The times have found us.’ The times found them to fight for and establish our democracy. The times have found us today, not to place ourselves in the same category of greatness as our Founders, but to place us in the urgency of protecting and defending our Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. In the words of Ben Franklin, to keep our Republic.

I thank our Chairmen – Chairman Nadler, Chairman Schiff. Chairman Nadler of Judiciary. Chairman Schiff of Intelligence. Chairman Engel of Foreign Affairs. Chairman Cummings of Oversight and Chairman Cummings I have been in touch with constantly. He is a master of so much but including, Inspectors General and whistleblowers. Congressman Richie Neal of the Ways and Means Committee. Congresswomen Maxine Waters of the Financial Services Committee.

And I commend all of our Members, our colleagues for their thoughtful, thoughtful approach to all of this – for their careful statements.

God bless them and God Bless America. Thank you all

Source: https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/92419-0

Full Video:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?464684-1/speaker-pelosi-announces-formal-impeachment-inquiry-president-trump


Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III

Report on the Investigation into Russian Interference in the 2016 Presidential Election [PDF]


Washington Post

Full Timeline of the President's interactions with Ukraine

House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
Whistleblower Report

Fact Sheet released by Speaker Pelosi (D CA-12)

https://www.speaker.gov/sites/speaker.house.gov/files/Trump Shakedown and Coverup.pdf



Surfpossum wrote: »
I just spent far too much time writing up a facebook post to try and provide a sort of high-level, citation-filled rundown of The Ukraine Call since I haven't seen anything laying it out in a simple manner so I figured I'd post it here, too.
The Misuse of Presidential Power to Solicit Foreign Interference in Our Election

“In the course of my official duties, I have received information from multiple U.S. Government officials that the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election. This interference includes, among other things, pressuring a foreign country to investigate one of the President's main domestic political rivals.” 1


The money: the US was planning to send several hundred million dollars to Ukraine to help them purchase military hardware.

This aid package (announced in June of 2019) was contingent on Ukraine’s efforts to combat corruption, and the Pentagon sent a letter to Congress in which they "certified that the Government of Ukraine has taken substantial actions to make defense institutional reforms for the purposes of decreasing corruption [and] increasing accountability." 2


The setup: in June, the White House suddenly blocked the aid package without explanation.

In July, “Administration officials were instructed to tell lawmakers that the delays were part of an “interagency process” but to give them no additional information — a pattern that continued for nearly two months, until the White House released the funds on the night of Sept. 11.” 3


The shakedown: this was followed by a phone call in July between Trump and the Ukrainian President in which the Ukrainian President brought up wanting to purchase military hardware and Trump’s response was to ask for some “favors.”

From the official “reconstructed transcript” created from notes on the phone call, we can see that Trump’s response to the Ukrainian President’s comment about the financial aid they are expecting to receive is to request some investigations:

“President Zelenskyy: We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.
The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it.
[here the Ukrainian President, Zelenskyy, assures Trump that they are “great friends” and that “all the investigations will be done openly and candidly”]
The President: The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.” 4


The crime: the use of the US government’s money to pressure a foreign government into manufacturing an investigation to hurt a political rival in the upcoming election is an abuse of power.

Even setting aside the use of the US government’s resources to extort assistance, “It is illegal for any person to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election.” 5


The cover-up: realizing the seriousness of what just happened, the White House attempted to hide the transcript of the phone call on a server used for classified national security info.

“White House lawyers directed White House officials to remove the electronic transcript of the Zelensky call from the computer system where such transcripts normally are stored. That transcript then was loaded into a “separate electronic system” that is otherwise used to store and handle classified information of an especially sensitive nature. “One White House official described this act as an abuse of this electronic system because the call did not contain anything remotely sensitive from a national security perspective.”” 6

The whistleblower elaborates on what that server is usually for: “According to multiple White House officials I spoke with, the transcript of the President's call with President Zelenskyy was placed into a computer system managed directly by the National Security Council (NSC) Directorate for Intelligence Programs. This is a standalone computer system reserved for codeword-level intelligence information, such as covert action.” 1


The conclusion:

“I am deeply concerned that the actions described below constitute “a serious or flagrant problem, abuse, or violation of law or Executive Order” [...] I am also concerned that these actions pose risks to U.S. national security and undermine the U.S. Government's efforts to deter and counter foreign interference in U.S. elections.” 1

Sources:
  1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/read-the-whistleblower-complaint-regarding-president-trump-s-communications-with-ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky/4b9e0ca5-3824-467f-b1a3-77f2d4ee16aa/?fbclid=IwAR0oj1nxRlu_PNQmeakdyEb-WwWgrLKXWPtyBUCTPDGcYab1f7WYdjRwocc
  2. https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764453663/pentagon-letter-undercuts-trump-assertion-on-delaying-aid-to-ukraine-over-corrup?fbclid=IwAR2MxuFi7LICAqM9rj7G6RaE2l_JFZ_dF3HiWoTT1W4l1j05CF3ZILIKWA4
  3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-ordered-hold-on-military-aid-days-before-calling-ukrainian-president-officials-say/2019/09/23/df93a6ca-de38-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html?fbclid=IwAR1QyVOTWyGYcMqN_ojzqUsGXPZeVUJ-dYefgbE8GS2hjdzyLK-iAy78ToY
  4. https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2tLXsD_2tSOnqMvNpXvIoFevBjuqCCGnQjO4r224923u54fwO9V_RyeCA
  5. https://mobile.twitter.com/EllenLWeintraub/status/1139309394968096768?fbclid=IwAR3Q1xwX-qk6TbgJan_dj4d15B_RmHlzh2YEPxEpKQLfXHfPjWvU5hLvwpk
  6. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/biggest-bombshells-in-trump-whistleblower-complaint-cover-up.html?fbclid=IwAR1Axs0UcMTe9Ul9yeEcPddGY1DoOW-gSb5afE_sns9L8--QxWs1qq8oRxM

Suggestions and/or corrections are welcome



*************
The OP will be continually updated as information becomes available, and I have time to add to it.

moniker on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    Opening Statement of Lieutenant Colonel Alexander S. Vindman
    Before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, the House
    Committee on Foreign Affairs, and the House Committee on Oversight and
    Reform

    October 29, 2019

    Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, thank you for the opportunity to address the Committees concerning the activities relating to Ukraine and my role in the events under investigation.

    Background
    I have dedicated my entire professional life to the United States of America. For
    more than two decades, it has been my honor to serve as an officer in the United States Army. As an infantry officer, I served multiple overseas tours, including South Korea and Germany, and a deployment to Iraq for combat operations. In Iraq, I was wounded in an IED attack and awarded a Purple Heart.
    Since 2008, I have been a Foreign Area Officer specializing in Eurasia. In this role, I have served in the United States’ embassies in Kiev, Ukraine and Moscow, Russia. In Washington, D.C., I was a politico-military affairs officer for Russia for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs where I authored the principle strategy for managing competition with Russia. In July 2018, I was asked to serve at the National Security
    Council. The privilege of serving my country is not only rooted in my military service, but also in my personal history. I sit here, as a Lieutenant Colonel in the United States Army, an immigrant. My family fled the Soviet Union when I was three and a half years old. Upon arriving in New York City in 1979, my father worked multiple jobs to support us, all the while learning English at night. He stressed to us the importance of fully integrating into our adopted country. For many years, life was quite difficult. In spite of our challenging beginnings, my family worked to build its own American dream. I have a deep appreciation for American values and ideals and the power of freedom. I am a patriot, and it is my sacred duty and honor to advance and defend OUR country, irrespective of party or politics.

    For over twenty years as an active duty United States military officer and diplomat, I have served this country in a nonpartisan manner, and have done so with the utmost respect and professionalism for both Republican and Democratic administrations.

    Introduction

    Before recounting my recollection of various events under investigation, I want to clarify a few issues. I am appearing today voluntarily pursuant to a subpoena and will answer all questions to the best of my recollection. I want the Committees to know I am not the whistleblower who brought this issue to the CIA and the Committees’ attention. I do not know who the whistleblower is and I would not feel comfortable to speculate as to the identity of the whistleblower.

    Also, as I will detail herein, I did convey certain concerns internally to National
    Security officials in accordance with my decades of experience and training, sense of duty, and obligation to operate within the chain of command. As an active duty military officer, the command structure is extremely important to me. On many
    occasions I have been told I should express my views and share my concerns with my chain of command and proper authorities. I believe that any good military officer should and would do the same, thus providing his or her best advice to leadership. Furthermore, in performing my coordination role as a Director on the National Security Council, I provided readouts of relevant meetings and communications to a very small group of properly cleared national security counterparts with a relevant need-to-know.

    My Service on the National Security Council

    When I joined the White House’s National Security Council (“NSC”), I reported to Dr. Fiona Hill, who in turn reported to John Bolton, the National Security Advisor. My role at the NSC includes developing, coordinating, and executing plans and policies to manage the full range of diplomatic, informational, military, and economic national security issues for the countries in my portfolio, which includes Ukraine. In my position, I coordinate with a superb cohort of inter-agency partners. I regularly prepare internal memoranda, talking points, and other materials for the
    National Security Advisor and senior staff. Most of my interactions relate to national security issues and are therefore especially sensitive. I would urge the Committees to carefully balance the need for information against the impact that disclosure would have on our foreign policy
    and national security. I have never had direct contact or communications with the President.

    The Geopolitical Importance of Ukraine

    Since 2008, Russia has manifested an overtly aggressive foreign policy, leveraging military power and employing hybrid warfare to achieve its objectives of regional hegemony and global influence. Absent a deterrent to dissuade Russia from such aggression, there is an increased risk of further confrontations with the West. In this situation, a strong and independent Ukraine is critical to U.S. national security interests because Ukraine is a frontline state and a bulwark against Russian aggression. In spite of being under assault from Russia for more than five years, Ukraine has taken major steps towards integrating with the West. The U.S. government policy
    community’s view is that the election of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and the
    promise of reforms to eliminate corruption will lock in Ukraine’s Western-leaning trajectory, and allow Ukraine to realize its dream of a vibrant democracy and economic prosperity.
    Given this perspective and my commitment to advancing our government’s strategic interests, I will now recount several events that occurred.

    Relevant Events

    When I joined the NSC in July 2018, I began implementing the administration’s policy on Ukraine. In the Spring of 2019, I became aware of outside influencers promoting a false narrative of Ukraine inconsistent with the consensus views of the interagency. This narrative was harmful to U.S. government policy. While my
    interagency colleagues and I were becoming increasingly optimistic on Ukraine’s prospects, this alternative narrative undermined U.S. government efforts to expand cooperation with Ukraine.

    April 21, 2019: President Trump Calls Ukraine President Zelenskyy

    On April 21, 2019, Volodymyr Zelenskyy was elected President of Ukraine in a
    landslide victory. President Zelenskyy was seen as a unifying figure within the
    country. He was the first candidate to win a majority in every region of the country, breaking the claims that Ukraine would be subject to a perpetual divide between the Ukrainian- and Russian-speaking populations. President Zelenskyy ran on a platform of unity, reform, and anti-corruption, which resonated with the entire
    country. In support of U.S. policy objectives to support Ukrainian sovereignty, President Trump called President Zelenskyy on April 21, 2019. I was one of several staff and officers who listened to the call. The call was positive, and President Trump expressed his desire to work with President Zelenskyy and extended an invitation to visit the White House.

    May 21, 2019: Inauguration Delegation Goes to Ukraine

    On May 21, 2019, I was directed by Ambassador Bolton and Dr. Hill to join the delegation attending President Zelenkskyy’s inauguration. When the delegation returned, they provided a debriefing to President Trump and explained their positive assessment of President Zelenskyy and his team. I did not participate in the debriefing.

    Oleksandr Danylyuk Visit – July 10, 2019

    On July 10, 2019, Oleksandr Danylyuk, the Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council for Ukraine, visited Washington, D.C. for a meeting with National Security Advisor Bolton. Ambassadors Volker and Sondland also attended, along with Energy Secretary Rick Perry. The meeting proceeded well until the Ukrainians broached the subject of a meeting between the two presidents. The Ukrainians saw this meeting as critically important in order to solidify the support of their most important international partner. Amb. Sondland started to speak about Ukraine delivering specific investigations in order to secure the meeting with the President, at which time Ambassador Bolton cut the meeting short. Following this meeting, there was a scheduled debriefing during which Amb. Sondland emphasized the importance that Ukraine deliver the investigations into the 2016 election, the Bidens, and Burisma. I stated to Amb. Sondland that his statements were inappropriate, that the request to investigate Biden and his son had nothing to do with national security, and that such investigations were not
    something the NSC was going to get involved in or push. Dr. Hill then entered the room and asserted to Amb. Sondland that his statements were inappropriate. Following the debriefing meeting, I reported my concerns to the NSC’s lead counsel. Dr. Hill also reported the incident to the NSC’s lead counsel.

    Election Call – July 25, 2019

    On July 21, 2019, President Zelenskyy’s party won Parliamentary elections in a
    landslide victory. The NSC proposed that President Trump call President Zelenskyy to congratulate him. On July 25, 2019, the call occurred. I listened in on the call in the Situation Room
    with colleagues from the NSC and the office of the Vice President. As the transcript is in the public record, we are all aware of what was said. I was concerned by the call. I did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign
    government investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was worried about the implications for the U.S. government’s support of Ukraine. I realized that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the Bidens and Burisma, it would likely be interpreted as a partisan play which would undoubtedly result in Ukraine losing the bipartisan support it has thus far maintained. This would all undermine U.S. national security.
    Following the call, I again reported my concerns to NSC’s lead counsel.

    Conclusion

    The United States and Ukraine are and must remain strategic partners, working
    together to realize the shared vision of a stable, prosperous, and democratic
    Ukraine that is integrated into the Euro-Atlantic community. Our partnership is
    rooted in the idea that free citizens should be able to exercise their democratic rights, choose their own destiny, and live in peace. It has been a great honor to serve the American people and a privilege to work in
    the White House and on the National Security Council. I hope to continue to serve and advance America’s national security interests. Thank you again for your consideration, and now I would be happy to answer your questions.

    moniker on
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Oh sure Moniker, like we're going to have enough impeachment news you need two OPs.

    Actually I'm now pondering what kind of news we'll get in these next two weeks if they're like the last two weeks.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    DevoutlyApathetic wrote: »
    Oh sure Moniker, like we're going to have enough impeachment news you need two OPs.

    Actually I'm now pondering what kind of news we'll get in these next two weeks if they're like the last two weeks.

    I think it’s possible things might get pretty wild if there truly are multiple whistleblowers now, especially if they are blowing the whistle on new and exciting crimes and not just adding the what we already know about Ukraine.

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    DevoutlyApathetic wrote: »
    Oh sure Moniker, like we're going to have enough impeachment news you need two OPs.

    Actually I'm now pondering what kind of news we'll get in these next two weeks if they're like the last two weeks.

    I think it’s possible things might get pretty wild if there truly are multiple whistleblowers now, especially if they are blowing the whistle on new and exciting crimes and not just adding the what we already know about Ukraine.

    The newest one didn't provide any new information but did provide first hand account confirming the first officer's claims. Which should put to bed any claims that it's all unverified second hand info.

    Should.

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    GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    The newest one didn't provide any new information but did provide first hand account confirming the first officer's claims. Which should put to bed any claims that it's all unverified second hand info.

    Should.

    Second hand info that the President himself confirmed as perfect factual after releasing a memo summarizing the actual transcript of the call.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    Desktop Hippie wrote:
    The Associated Press are reporting that while Trump was urging Ukraine to "investigate corruption" in their country, Giuliani decided to help his friends benefit from a spot of corruption in their country.


    The Associated Press
    AP sources: Trump allies sought changes at Ukraine utility
    KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — As Rudy Giuliani was pushing Ukrainian officials last spring to investigate one of Donald Trump's main political rivals, a group of individuals with ties to the president and...
    https://apnews.com/d7440cffba4940f5b85cd3dfa3500fb2?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

    AP wrote:
    BREAKING: As President Trump urged Ukraine’s leaders to investigate his political rival Joe Biden, associates of his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani were looking to profit from the country’s state-run natural gas company, AP sources say.

    This honestly caught me flat footed. Like, it isn't necessarily shocking or surprising, but if you had asked I never would have guessed it. And yet, it makes absolute and total sense

    moniker on
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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    The newest one didn't provide any new information but did provide first hand account confirming the first officer's claims. Which should put to bed any claims that it's all unverified second hand info.

    Should.

    Second hand info that the President himself confirmed as perfect factual after releasing a memo summarizing the actual transcript of the call.

    I guess we'll at least find out if the so called memo was accurate or maybe left out some super important bits.

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    lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    I saw my first "reelect" Trump ad during football on Sunday. I put it in quotes as it is definitely a push back for impeachment as it talks about how this latest round of investigation is the same old same old Swamp (insert picture of Pelosi and Schiff) trying to stop Trump from draining the Swamp.

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
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    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Desktop Hippie wrote:
    The Associated Press are reporting that while Trump was urging Ukraine to "investigate corruption" in their country, Giuliani decided to help his friends benefit from a spot of corruption in their country.


    The Associated Press
    AP sources: Trump allies sought changes at Ukraine utility
    KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — As Rudy Giuliani was pushing Ukrainian officials last spring to investigate one of Donald Trump's main political rivals, a group of individuals with ties to the president and...
    https://apnews.com/d7440cffba4940f5b85cd3dfa3500fb2?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

    AP wrote:
    BREAKING: As President Trump urged Ukraine’s leaders to investigate his political rival Joe Biden, associates of his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani were looking to profit from the country’s state-run natural gas company, AP sources say.

    This honestly caught me flat footed. Like, it isn't necessarily shocking or surprising, but if you had asked I never would have guessed it. And yet, it makes absolute and total sense

    As a general rule.

    Every Time Trump accuses someones of doing something, it is only because the "something" is a thing that Donald Trump has done, is doing, or wants to do.

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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Desktop Hippie wrote:
    The Associated Press are reporting that while Trump was urging Ukraine to "investigate corruption" in their country, Giuliani decided to help his friends benefit from a spot of corruption in their country.


    The Associated Press
    AP sources: Trump allies sought changes at Ukraine utility
    KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — As Rudy Giuliani was pushing Ukrainian officials last spring to investigate one of Donald Trump's main political rivals, a group of individuals with ties to the president and...
    https://apnews.com/d7440cffba4940f5b85cd3dfa3500fb2?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

    AP wrote:
    BREAKING: As President Trump urged Ukraine’s leaders to investigate his political rival Joe Biden, associates of his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani were looking to profit from the country’s state-run natural gas company, AP sources say.

    This honestly caught me flat footed. Like, it isn't necessarily shocking or surprising, but if you had asked I never would have guessed it. And yet, it makes absolute and total sense

    As a general rule.

    Every Time Trump accuses someones of doing something, it is only because the "something" is a thing that Donald Trump has done, is doing, or wants to do.

    I'm pretty sure that, at least some of the time, it's all three.

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    Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    If you're going to steal with impunity, you may as well bring a truck.



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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    I saw my first "reelect" Trump ad during football on Sunday. I put it in quotes as it is definitely a push back for impeachment as it talks about how this latest round of investigation is the same old same old Swamp (insert picture of Pelosi and Schiff) trying to stop Trump from draining the Swamp.

    Trump has proven less interested in draining the swamp then he is in, well, becoming this:
    bzgfjzj3xp7c.png

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Hilarious joke images are great and not really wanted in the thread, thanks.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    So... Trump tweeted last night that Pelosi and Schiff are guilty of treason. That they are the ones who need to be impeached.

    ...what the hell has Trump been up to that we DON'T know about?

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    ExtreaminatusExtreaminatus Go forth and amplify, the Noise Marines are here!Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So... Trump tweeted last night that Pelosi and Schiff are guilty of treason. That they are the ones who need to be impeached.

    ...what the hell has Trump been up to that we DON'T know about?
    Viskod wrote: »

    As a general rule.

    Every Time Trump accuses someones of doing something, it is only because the "something" is a thing that Donald Trump has done, is doing, or wants to do.


    I'm guessing...treason.

    Extreaminatus on
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    rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Its funnier because they can't be impeached, only expelled.

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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Extreaminatus wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So... Trump tweeted last night that Pelosi and Schiff are guilty of treason. That they are the ones who need to be impeached.

    ...what the hell has Trump been up to that we DON'T know about?
    Viskod wrote: »

    As a general rule.

    Every Time Trump accuses someones of doing something, it is only because the "something" is a thing that Donald Trump has done, is doing, or wants to do.


    I'm guessing...treason.

    That would be hard, considering that the USA considers treason only as aiding a country that the US is at war with. Even if Trump was taking direct bribes from Putin, that would only be corruption, not treason, since we aren't at war with Russia.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    CelestialBadger wrote: »
    Extreaminatus wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So... Trump tweeted last night that Pelosi and Schiff are guilty of treason. That they are the ones who need to be impeached.

    ...what the hell has Trump been up to that we DON'T know about?
    Viskod wrote: »

    As a general rule.

    Every Time Trump accuses someones of doing something, it is only because the "something" is a thing that Donald Trump has done, is doing, or wants to do.


    I'm guessing...treason.

    That would be hard, considering that the USA considers treason only as aiding a country that the US is at war with. Even if Trump was taking direct bribes from Putin, that would only be corruption, not treason, since we aren't at war with Russia.

    Not quite. It only requires they be an enemy. War is a sufficient but not a necessary condition.

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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    rahkeesh2000 wrote: »
    Its funnier because they can't be impeached, only expelled.

    It’s funny, in a pathetic sort of way, that now when he’s facing impeachment he starts saying that everyone who criticizes him should be impeached themselves.

    It’s like he heard a new word and he knows it means something bad, but doesn’t understand what it means. So he just uses it as an attack for everything.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    rahkeesh2000 wrote: »
    Its funnier because they can't be impeached, only expelled.

    It’s funny, in a pathetic sort of way, that now when he’s facing impeachment he starts saying that everyone who criticizes him should be impeached themselves.

    It’s like he heard a new word and he knows it means something bad, but doesn’t understand what it means. So he just uses it as an attack for everything.

    That probably exactly what it is.

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    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So... Trump tweeted last night that Pelosi and Schiff are guilty of treason. That they are the ones who need to be impeached.

    ...what the hell has Trump been up to that we DON'T know about?

    He also calls them his little jokey nicknames while accusing them of crimes punishable by death. He can't take his own impeachment defense seriously, he has to turn it into entertainment for his base.

    I've noticed this about Trump. He behaves as if he's at a Trump rally 100% of the time, because that's probably the environment he's been in for most of his life. Everyone's excited to see him, laughing at his jokes, congratulating him for being so rich. He got in trouble for it when he visited the El Paso shooting victims and acted like it was a campaign event. It's exhausting to watch, it must be really painful to be around.

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    mcpmcp Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So... Trump tweeted last night that Pelosi and Schiff are guilty of treason. That they are the ones who need to be impeached.

    ...what the hell has Trump been up to that we DON'T know about?
    Probably a lot of stuff

    It's been making its way around twitter a bit this morning, but I'm curious about us pulling out of Syria with regards to Trump Tower Istanbul.

    Everyone has leverage on this motherfucker because if his shitty ass hotels.

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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Turkey and Russia are allies.

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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    rahkeesh2000 wrote: »
    Its funnier because they can't be impeached, only expelled.

    It’s funny, in a pathetic sort of way, that now when he’s facing impeachment he starts saying that everyone who criticizes him should be impeached themselves.

    It’s like he heard a new word and he knows it means something bad, but doesn’t understand what it means. So he just uses it as an attack for everything.

    That probably exactly what it is.

    See also: Collusion, fake news, etc.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    CelestialBadger wrote: »
    Turkey and Russia are allies.

    Yes and no. Turkey is a member of NATO. I wonder if that phone call landed on the codeword classified server. Because HIC is going to be going over that with a fine toothed comb now.

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    kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So... Trump tweeted last night that Pelosi and Schiff are guilty of treason. That they are the ones who need to be impeached.

    ...what the hell has Trump been up to that we DON'T know about?

    He also calls them his little jokey nicknames while accusing them of crimes punishable by death. He can't take his own impeachment defense seriously, he has to turn it into entertainment for his base.

    I've noticed this about Trump. He behaves as if he's at a Trump rally 100% of the time, because that's probably the environment he's been in for most of his life. Everyone's excited to see him, laughing at his jokes, congratulating him for being so rich. He got in trouble for it when he visited the El Paso shooting victims and acted like it was a campaign event. It's exhausting to watch, it must be really painful to be around.

    Trump has never developed past grade school. The fact his I am rubber you are glue scthick has worked as long as it has is embarrassing to adults everywhere.

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    CelestialBadger wrote: »
    Turkey and Russia are allies.

    Not really

    Syria and Russia are allies

    Turkey and Syria have a common cause of wiping out the Kurds

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    nexuscrawler wrote: »
    CelestialBadger wrote: »
    Turkey and Russia are allies.

    Not really

    Syria and Russia are allies

    Turkey and Syria have a common cause of wiping out the Kurds

    Edrogan is playing the West and Russia against each other from the safety of NATO membership, while selling audiences at home on the rise of a new Ottoman Empire. It's yet another slow-moving disaster that's starting to pick up speed.

    Phillishere on
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    So probably the republican congress critters to watch for if the dam is about to break or if things are looking dire for Trump, but falling short of dam breaking. Are going to be Rep Wittman (VA 01 R) and Rep. Riggleman (VA 05 R). Both districts are purple, but skew enough to the GOP side, that if they jump ship, it probably means that Trump is done. I'd also be looking at districts and states will similar partisan leans as those two's districts for other critters to keep an eye on.

    I also see the asshat GOP trying to liken the whistle blowers coming forward to the Kavanaugh scandal, where they confirmed a rapist, by claiming that more people coming forward doesn't make it more reliable. They clearly do not get how the intelligence community works. That shit is documented for a variety of reasons. Still no word on if any of the new whistle blowers have knowledge of scandals outside of the one involving Ukraine.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    CelestialBadger wrote: »
    Extreaminatus wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So... Trump tweeted last night that Pelosi and Schiff are guilty of treason. That they are the ones who need to be impeached.

    ...what the hell has Trump been up to that we DON'T know about?
    Viskod wrote: »

    As a general rule.

    Every Time Trump accuses someones of doing something, it is only because the "something" is a thing that Donald Trump has done, is doing, or wants to do.


    I'm guessing...treason.

    That would be hard, considering that the USA considers treason only as aiding a country that the US is at war with. Even if Trump was taking direct bribes from Putin, that would only be corruption, not treason, since we aren't at war with Russia.

    Isn't the US still technically at war with North Korea? Given his penchant for quid pro quo, and his cozy relationship with KJU, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was something there.

    But it's more likely he's at best using the more colloquial usage, and not the technically accurate one, and at worst, he's just parroting a word with no understanding of the context.

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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    CelestialBadger wrote: »
    Extreaminatus wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So... Trump tweeted last night that Pelosi and Schiff are guilty of treason. That they are the ones who need to be impeached.

    ...what the hell has Trump been up to that we DON'T know about?
    Viskod wrote: »

    As a general rule.

    Every Time Trump accuses someones of doing something, it is only because the "something" is a thing that Donald Trump has done, is doing, or wants to do.


    I'm guessing...treason.

    That would be hard, considering that the USA considers treason only as aiding a country that the US is at war with. Even if Trump was taking direct bribes from Putin, that would only be corruption, not treason, since we aren't at war with Russia.

    Isn't the US still technically at war with North Korea? Given his penchant for quid pro quo, and his cozy relationship with KJU, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was something there.

    But it's more likely he's at best using the more colloquial usage, and not the technically accurate one, and at worst, he's just parroting a word with no understanding of the context.

    South Korea is still at war with North Korea. The US was never formally at war with Korea in the first place. It was a "policing action."

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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    So probably the republican congress critters to watch for if the dam is about to break or if things are looking dire for Trump, but falling short of dam breaking. Are going to be Rep Wittman (VA 01 R) and Rep. Riggleman (VA 05 R). Both districts are purple, but skew enough to the GOP side, that if they jump ship, it probably means that Trump is done. I'd also be looking at districts and states will similar partisan leans as those two's districts for other critters to keep an eye on.

    I also see the asshat GOP trying to liken the whistle blowers coming forward to the Kavanaugh scandal, where they confirmed a rapist, by claiming that more people coming forward doesn't make it more reliable. They clearly do not get how the intelligence community works. That shit is documented for a variety of reasons. Still no word on if any of the new whistle blowers have knowledge of scandals outside of the one involving Ukraine.

    Purple district Congressmen turning doesn't really mean anything. It's GOP Senators that have the power to sink Trump.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Again, this is the impeachment thread. Foreign policy is over there.

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    FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    CelestialBadger wrote: »
    Extreaminatus wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So... Trump tweeted last night that Pelosi and Schiff are guilty of treason. That they are the ones who need to be impeached.

    ...what the hell has Trump been up to that we DON'T know about?
    Viskod wrote: »

    As a general rule.

    Every Time Trump accuses someones of doing something, it is only because the "something" is a thing that Donald Trump has done, is doing, or wants to do.


    I'm guessing...treason.

    That would be hard, considering that the USA considers treason only as aiding a country that the US is at war with. Even if Trump was taking direct bribes from Putin, that would only be corruption, not treason, since we aren't at war with Russia.

    Not quite. It only requires they be an enemy. War is a sufficient but not a necessary condition.

    The Rosenbergs weren't even charged with treason, and they gave the Soviet Union the secrets to build nukes.

    Pretty sure "at war" is, at the very least, the condition that has been agreed upon by every administration so far, and for good reason.

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    rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    More like the courts have decided this I thought.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    On CNN, chyron reads "GOP Homeland Security Head: "I don't trust the FBI or CIA" "

    Perfectly normal thing to say.

    Also, the GOP is claiming Trump asking China to look into Biden was "just a joke," so mark your free space on your bingo card.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    There usually isn't really any reason to charge a person with treason except as an example when there are always laws that will be easier to prove if you have enough evidence to even have a chance to prove treason.

    Couscous on
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    So probably the republican congress critters to watch for if the dam is about to break or if things are looking dire for Trump, but falling short of dam breaking. Are going to be Rep Wittman (VA 01 R) and Rep. Riggleman (VA 05 R). Both districts are purple, but skew enough to the GOP side, that if they jump ship, it probably means that Trump is done. I'd also be looking at districts and states will similar partisan leans as those two's districts for other critters to keep an eye on.

    I also see the asshat GOP trying to liken the whistle blowers coming forward to the Kavanaugh scandal, where they confirmed a rapist, by claiming that more people coming forward doesn't make it more reliable. They clearly do not get how the intelligence community works. That shit is documented for a variety of reasons. Still no word on if any of the new whistle blowers have knowledge of scandals outside of the one involving Ukraine.

    Purple district Congressmen turning doesn't really mean anything. It's GOP Senators that have the power to sink Trump.

    Except those guys also represent the kinds of states that have a partisan lean similar to where there are senators. As has been said, the GOP flip will not be slow. It'll be quick and sudden. If those two representatives start voicing they are in favor of impeachment, then you know that the republican senators in AZ, GA, FL, IA, NC & OH aren't too far behind. Another factor we really should consider here, is how things will look if we get a bipartisan vote in the house for impeachment and a majority of senators vote in favor of removal, but fall short of the 67 needed. It's not a good look and I'd wager that there are a number of republican senators that don't want their record being "shit bird that voted against Trump's removal despite a bipartisan house vote to remove and a majority of senators being in agreement." I'd say the threshold probably isn't going to be getting 66 or 67 saying they are in favor of removal. Rather, the moment we get 51+, the rest of the GOP senators will probably turn on Trump because that's an easier vote to defend over "I disagree with a majority of elected officials." Also I think people are writing some states off way too much as red country, Kansas elected a democrat for governor and Alabama gave us Doug Jones in the senate. There does appear to be a line with a majority of the public and senate seats can be gerrymandered into an unapproachable stronghold.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    There usually isn't really any reason to charge a person with treason except as an example when there are always laws that will be easier to prove if you have enough evidence to even have a chance to prove treason.

    Treason requires witnesses to an overt act for conviction, so the evidence might not even exist.

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Trump must be feeling pretty confident on the impeachment inquiry to dare to go against the neocons in Syria.

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