MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited October 2019
So this is nearly done.
It takes 110°C steam and 95°C salt water and outputs ~60°C clean water.
Only 1 aqautuner runs at a time, water gets added as needed and the temp tries to stay between 130-150°C. I recover about 2/3rds of the power required to run it.
Still playing with the numbers since I want the final output to be about 70°C ideally.
And it's now 100% hands-off.
And if I have some poluted water or brine or anything to get rid off, I can just attach it to my input pipe and presto. Sweepers pick up any solid outputs and drops it in the cooling loop by the steam turbines.
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I did some reading on automatic kill systems for critters for meat harvesting and after some work - most of the ones I've seen are way too complicated.
I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....
I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.
So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.
That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.
I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).
One thing bugs me:
So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.
I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.
But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Was there another type of gas floating around at a lower pressure or a puddle of liquid?
A puddle of liquid will occupy the entire tile but won't be high enough pressure to prevent off gassing.
A useful, if hacky, technique to over pressurise rooms for storage.
I did some reading on automatic kill systems for critters for meat harvesting and after some work - most of the ones I've seen are way too complicated.
I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....
I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.
So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.
That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.
I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).
One thing bugs me:
So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.
I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.
But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?
Materials still sublimate on conveyor tracks, and I'm not 100% sure they care about air pressure while on there. All it takes is one puft and they now have a tile of low pressure polluted O2 to continue to dissolve in.
I find it easier to have the storage in a puddle on the floor, which will make absolute certain the slime doesn't become P. O2. Yeah, it doesn't get rid of the slimelung before it becomes algae, but you can use some automation to give the chlorine time to kill off the germs (I *think* algae will still interact with the air in a conveyor loader, so you can set a clock sensor connect to the loader, and the auto-sweeper through a NOT gate, set to go active for about 10% of the day, which will give enough time for the loader to send off all the algae, with the auto-sweeper prevented from adding in more and contaminating the clean algae going out) and as long as it never gets stored in a way it can start to turn into polluted oxygen there is no way for your dupes to get sick from the slimelung in the p. water.
Glossy dreckos just seem so much better than a polymer press,if just for the heat saving.
I personally try to get a rudimentary glosyy ranch up as soon as possible, giving me access to plastics way before I get to oil.
Also egg shells, meat, phosphorite (now that wheezeworts need them) they're probably my single most useful critter.
Part of the reason I mention it is I skipped setting up glossy dreckos early this time and still got my industrial brick up easily enough - even scavenging a tiny bit from gravitas triggers the printing pod to make it for you.
The line about the cooling also confuses me, honestly - I use the same cooling loop for keeping my kilns, metal refinery's, rock crushers and everything chill, and it's an icy 1c in there. Even before I get a cooling loop setup, it should be easy enough to just slam some ice tempshift plates behind things as a stop gap while I'm building stuff. Ice tempshift plates are the silliest things. (I beat up a volcano heat bloom with them!). Right now i'm plastering my frozen core in them to help keep it pretty cold, and freeze the output of a P02 geyser because... Eh, why not. Have a zone where it rains C02 is amusing to me.
As to water... Once you harness geysers it feels like water stops being an issue. I've only ever had water issues when I've delayed even crude harnessing of geysers. Heck at in my current game I've already created an infinite storage tank for p02, and I need to do the same for clean water. (though admittedly, this map is nutty what with 3 cool steam, 1 steam, 2 pw and 1 slush. I'm still yet to harness the slush or the other p02).
I dunno. This is stuff i'm poking at and figuring out. There's certainly advantages to Drecko ranches, but they're also a very slow way to get plastic. On the other hand, they're mostly passive and minimal dupe time once setup, and as noted they do make more than just plastic. But on the other other hand, When you can industrialise plastic production, is it really that beneficial to have a passive trickle of it? If it's not, then is it worth trying to rush a ranch to get that trickle pre Industry, or is it better to instead rush the industry itself?
This is the sort of stuff i enjoy figuring out. Which reminds me, i need
Thanks for that link, @Foefaller. I'd seen it already - honestly, i need to rewatch it a few times and let the concepts digest, because it feels too complex for me right now? Not sure how to put it. Gotta give my brain time to wrap around the concepts and eat em all up
Different map features and asteroid types are going to mix up your starts and mid-game strats now and again. If I didn't luck out from a nearby polluted water geyser my Badlands map would be hard pressed for water, because the only guaranteed renewable water is a single cool steam vent. And all that extra water is pretty much the only reason I can run multiple gas generators, because the map has zero nat gas vents, and all my gas comes from oil wells and refineries. Different map roll, and I'd probably would be stuck pumping loose oil deposits almost exclusively and scouring the map for all the rust it had so I wouldn't have to use electrolyzers as much. At least until I could cooble together a petroleum boiler that's net gain on water.
That, plus the fact that there is no slime biome in Badlands was the reason I set up an early drecko ranch this map, which, once I got some thimble reed seeds from the printing pod were bred into glossy (because I already had them, so why not?) Last base on Volcanea and going for Super Sustainable, it was the only way I was going to get plastic for a long time thanks to the several hundred tiles of 800°C+ rock and obsidian between me and the oil biome, and with the restrictions for the achievement I absolutely needed those turbines if I was going to produce enough power to continue to keep my base out of scalding temperatures. And even then I don't think I ever used the polymer press because I was already needing to run two aquatuners just to keep the base at a livable temp and the cooling magma vents meant I didn't have the power for a third (actually, I think it would have been 5th?)
The valuing water thing might be another learned habit from EA though; there was no tidepool biome with guaranteed salt water geyser until the launch update, so you had to go in assuming that the two steam vents were they only infinite sources of water you were going to get.
...and the line about using a cooling loop for your industrial block confuses me. Kilns can't overheat, and can make enough ceramic by the time you unlock Metal Refineries that you can make them out of it, which means it's not going to overheat unless the room it's in is nearly hot enough to melt lead, which you could prevent by, humorously enough, running the crude oil or petrol coolant around a bit in radiant pipes after it's cycled through the steam chamber until it's *only* 125°C. And as long as you aren't putting the rock crusher in the same exact room, in most maps it should stay cool enough on it's own without almost any cooling whatsoever, certainly not super coolant cool. You're spending 1.2kw of power to do something you should only need atmo suits and, at most, 8kg/cycle of phosporite and a pair of wheezeworts to do.
If you're worried about atmo suits limiting dupe access for delivery, just make a metal ore storage of priority 8 containers with a priority 9 loader for each ore, each leading to it's own receptacle, which will hold 100kg of that metal in reserve and keep the rest from being set in by virtue of backing up the line until the refinery order is made. That should make sure you only need the dupes who run the block inside without having all your metal ore stuck in there as well.
I'm spending a whole lot less than 1.2k watts. The single aquatuner in my brick is cooling the steam turbines as well as the metal refineries, rock crushers, and presses. It was doing the oil refineries too, but they've been scraped. Haven't figured out what I'll put in the bottom yet... Molecular forge, I guess?
But seriously, my current setup is costing me about 300 kj to run the aquatuner. So you know, a right pittance. When the brick is going full tilt... I actually start making power. 8 turbines is Overkill, but boy do they do work. That and I only have 3 aquatuners on the map. You just... Don't need a lot of them when you use icebox designs. They pump out disturbing amounts of cooling
I've only even got near brownouts when I had every single refinery running before I installed the extras.
Mostly I just like keeping it cool because it saves me headaches - I centralize my storage, I don't have to worry about anything going screwed, the whole thing just works. Heck, that's what I should do down the bottom - slam a glass forge in and give this baby some real heat to play with.
I get the impression we've got pretty different playstyles and ways of thinking about what we're trying to do in the game. (Which is cool! I enjoy contrasting things).
Map difference also a significant thing - I'm on a geoactive rime map so whooo boy, water is not an issue.
Well early game stopping it freezing in bad places were, but that's not been a problem for hundreds of cycles
I did some reading on automatic kill systems for critters for meat harvesting and after some work - most of the ones I've seen are way too complicated.
I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....
I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.
So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.
That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.
I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).
One thing bugs me:
So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.
I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.
But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?
Materials still sublimate on conveyor tracks, and I'm not 100% sure they care about air pressure while on there. All it takes is one puft and they now have a tile of low pressure polluted O2 to continue to dissolve in.
I find it easier to have the storage in a puddle on the floor, which will make absolute certain the slime doesn't become P. O2. Yeah, it doesn't get rid of the slimelung before it becomes algae, but you can use some automation to give the chlorine time to kill off the germs (I *think* algae will still interact with the air in a conveyor loader, so you can set a clock sensor connect to the loader, and the auto-sweeper through a NOT gate, set to go active for about 10% of the day, which will give enough time for the loader to send off all the algae, with the auto-sweeper prevented from adding in more and contaminating the clean algae going out) and as long as it never gets stored in a way it can start to turn into polluted oxygen there is no way for your dupes to get sick from the slimelung in the p. water.
This was my suspicion.
Dammit. Then I either exchange the air once in a while, or completely tear down my slime processing area.
I'm spending a whole lot less than 1.2k watts. The single aquatuner in my brick is cooling the steam turbines as well as the metal refineries, rock crushers, and presses. It was doing the oil refineries too, but they've been scraped. Haven't figured out what I'll put in the bottom yet... Molecular forge, I guess?
But seriously, my current setup is costing me about 300 kj to run the aquatuner. So you know, a right pittance. When the brick is going full tilt... I actually start making power. 8 turbines is Overkill, but boy do they do work. That and I only have 3 aquatuners on the map. You just... Don't need a lot of them when you use icebox designs. They pump out disturbing amounts of cooling
I've only even got near brownouts when I had every single refinery running before I installed the extras.
Mostly I just like keeping it cool because it saves me headaches - I centralize my storage, I don't have to worry about anything going screwed, the whole thing just works. Heck, that's what I should do down the bottom - slam a glass forge in and give this baby some real heat to play with.
I get the impression we've got pretty different playstyles and ways of thinking about what we're trying to do in the game. (Which is cool! I enjoy contrasting things).
Map difference also a significant thing - I'm on a geoactive rime map so whooo boy, water is not an issue.
Well early game stopping it freezing in bad places were, but that's not been a problem for hundreds of cycles
You're still playing on No Sweat too, right? Most of my cooling efforts are related to farming, because I find that on Survival getting ranching large enough to sustain a reasonable dupe population without at least early mealwood planter boxes is simply not possible when they are eating 1000kcal/cycle, at least if you want more than 3-4 dupes before cycle 30. And once the farming conditions are set, expansion is usually really quick; add a bridge or two, some radiant pipe, wait a couple cycles and voila, another room cool enough for whatever it is you want to grow.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
I did some reading on automatic kill systems for critters for meat harvesting and after some work - most of the ones I've seen are way too complicated.
I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....
I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.
So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.
That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.
I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).
One thing bugs me:
So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.
I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.
But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?
Materials still sublimate on conveyor tracks, and I'm not 100% sure they care about air pressure while on there. All it takes is one puft and they now have a tile of low pressure polluted O2 to continue to dissolve in.
I find it easier to have the storage in a puddle on the floor, which will make absolute certain the slime doesn't become P. O2. Yeah, it doesn't get rid of the slimelung before it becomes algae, but you can use some automation to give the chlorine time to kill off the germs (I *think* algae will still interact with the air in a conveyor loader, so you can set a clock sensor connect to the loader, and the auto-sweeper through a NOT gate, set to go active for about 10% of the day, which will give enough time for the loader to send off all the algae, with the auto-sweeper prevented from adding in more and contaminating the clean algae going out) and as long as it never gets stored in a way it can start to turn into polluted oxygen there is no way for your dupes to get sick from the slimelung in the p. water.
This was my suspicion.
Dammit. Then I either exchange the air once in a while, or completely tear down my slime processing area.
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
I am running 5 aquatuners pretty much constantly for cooling.
This map has zero ice biomes, and hence no nullifies and so many sources of heat. I have 1 cool slush gesyer so far, but I buried it under a mile of salt water by accedent. Gonna take a lot of cycles to clean that up.
So I don't do anything that produces net heat if I don't have to.
I am over 1k cycles and I still don't use electrolyzers for base oxygen, only for atmosuit stations, since I don't need to cool it that way.
I did some reading on automatic kill systems for critters for meat harvesting and after some work - most of the ones I've seen are way too complicated.
I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....
I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.
So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.
That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.
I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).
One thing bugs me:
So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.
I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.
But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?
Materials still sublimate on conveyor tracks, and I'm not 100% sure they care about air pressure while on there. All it takes is one puft and they now have a tile of low pressure polluted O2 to continue to dissolve in.
I find it easier to have the storage in a puddle on the floor, which will make absolute certain the slime doesn't become P. O2. Yeah, it doesn't get rid of the slimelung before it becomes algae, but you can use some automation to give the chlorine time to kill off the germs (I *think* algae will still interact with the air in a conveyor loader, so you can set a clock sensor connect to the loader, and the auto-sweeper through a NOT gate, set to go active for about 10% of the day, which will give enough time for the loader to send off all the algae, with the auto-sweeper prevented from adding in more and contaminating the clean algae going out) and as long as it never gets stored in a way it can start to turn into polluted oxygen there is no way for your dupes to get sick from the slimelung in the p. water.
This was my suspicion.
Dammit. Then I either exchange the air once in a while, or completely tear down my slime processing area.
Bleh.
You can run the conveyer belts through tiles.
They are, and the conveyor receptacle is right adjacent to the tile, but it's still putting out polluted oxygen.
I think what I'll do is have two chambers. One for the distillers and no chlorine and one for the storage with chlorine and only algae will go into the chlorine room.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
This talk of cooling and my problem with just too much damn water has presented me with a solution though; ice!
All I need to do is freeze an entire subsurface ocean's worth of water (plus all the map's poluted water + some vents), dig it out into loose ice, and then it will just occupy a tile. Until I forget about it, some heat gets in, and the entire thing explodes.
This talk of cooling and my problem with just too much damn water has presented me with a solution though; ice!
All I need to do is freeze an entire subsurface ocean's worth of water (plus all the map's poluted water + some vents), dig it out into loose ice, and then it will just occupy a tile. Until I forget about it, some heat gets in, and the entire thing explodes.
Um, excuse me?
At first I thought this was saying I had over a million mealwood seeds (which seemed improbable), but I guess I've somehow lost 0.7646 of a seed somewhere?
I can't find where the remaining .2354 is, so this is just going to bug me.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
That's weird. Could composting a seed and deconstructing the compost heap do that?
@Mortious & @Foefaller could you both provide screenshots of your cooling loops? I'm really curious how you've got em setup now.
To check, your not plugging the loop straight into an aquatuner are you? Icebox designs give you way more chilling
On rime, early the issue tends to be reversed - I had to learn how to build a heating loop so that my plants wouldn't freeze to death. Thankfully, that's pretty easy to do. Though I did lose my nature reserve to a flooding accident. Plants do not like being submerged in negative 15c water
@klemming - it's a bug with storage containers. A very annoying one!
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited October 2019
I'll post a screenshot in a couple of hours when I get home, but I have few different designs depending on what the use case is.
The most generic one is steam turbine on top of two aqautuners encased in ceramic with water/vacuum that run radiant pipes of crude oil through a giant pool of crude oil encased in metal tiles. 7x14 tiles of it.
It's purpose is just to cool everything around it and usually lives in the middle of a hot area, and then I snake pipes off it using the "bridge" trick to keep the coolant flowing without needing a pump.
Then I have a smaller design that goes over a metal volcano or that metal refinery one I posted earlier (which needs a second or third steam turbine added) to remove heat from a closed loop, but not really cool anything outside itself.
They only setup where I use the aqautuner to cool something directly was my weird steam vent/salt water vent setup I posted yesterday.
Which btw works really well! Foefaller was correct about the bypass pipe by the aqautuner. Water got stuck in there and eventually broke the pipe, so I've removed the bypass. There isn't really a likely scenario where there would be water sitting in the aquatuner pipe.
Mortious & Foefaller could you both provide screenshots of your cooling loops? I'm really curious how you've got em setup now.
To check, your not plugging the loop straight into an aquatuner are you? Icebox designs give you way more chilling
On rime, early the issue tends to be reversed - I had to learn how to build a heating loop so that my plants wouldn't freeze to death. Thankfully, that's pretty easy to do. Though I did lose my nature reserve to a flooding accident. Plants do not like being submerged in negative 15c water
klemming - it's a bug with storage containers. A very annoying one!
Never heard of an "icebox" design. From your previous comments, I'm guessing you're using a p water or super coolant cooling loop to make ice and then use it as tempshift plates where you need them?
Not sure if that's actually better. Unless tempshift are an exception, I believe buildings (which IIRC for heat/gameplay purposes means pretty much everything buildable except tiles) are normally treated as having only 1/5 their actual mass for heat capacity purposes, so a building of ice is going to take less heat out of the area before it melts than the same mass of ice as debris, even if the building has a faster change in the temperature thanks to (usually) touching more cells and the formula used for building-to-occupied-cells heat transfer being more favorable for sudden temp changes.
The other meaning I can think of is making a freezing cold room with a small loop to chill the larger loop. This would be a superior setup if you are maximising the limited super coolant you might have for the small loop, or want to keep that room colder than the rest for other reasons, but if both loops are using water or polluted water* there really isn't any point; tuner+turbine is going to take the same amount of DTUs out of the world regardless of how long or short the loop is. Only the heat capacity of the liquid flowing through it matters.
I'll post a screenshot in a couple of hours when I get home, but I have few different designs depending on what the use case is.
The most generic one is steam turbine on top of two aqautuners encased in ceramic with water/vacuum that run radiant pipes of crude oil through a giant pool of crude oil encased in metal tiles. 7x14 tiles of it.
It's purpose is just to cool everything around it and usually lives in the middle of a hot area, and then I snake pipes off it using the "bridge" trick to keep the coolant flowing without needing a pump.
Then I have a smaller design that goes over a metal volcano or that metal refinery one I posted earlier (which needs a second or third steam turbine added) to remove heat from a closed loop, but not really cool anything outside itself.
They only setup where I use the aqautuner to cool something directly was my weird steam vent/salt water vent setup I posted yesterday.
Which btw works really well! Foefaller was correct about the bypass pipe by the aqautuner. Water got stuck in there and eventually broke the pipe, so I've removed the bypass. There isn't really a likely scenario where there would be water sitting in the aquatuner pipe.
Worth noting that Crude is a really bad coolant to be using in that sort of system. Polluted Water or just Water (As long as things arent going to break/vaporize in the pipes) have much better ability to move heat around. My coolant pipes are currently all either water or p.water - When i get super coolant, i'll probablyt use some of that somewhere ,but right now? No real need.
@Foefaller the following screenshots have a couple of takes on the icebox design - Pump based and Injector based. Pump based is a lot more space efficient, but obviously a lot more power hungry. Injector based is waaaay more power efficient, but like 2-3 times as big. These things are amazing at giving you consistent temperature. Also you get to leverage all that delicious thermal mass of the water. Pump-based pulls water from a contained room (I dunno how mine managed to offgass, it's annoying - i need to fix that but have been lazy), pumps it into the aquatuner and drops it right back in, with radiant piping for the aquatuner's output on the way to the drop. The cooling loops cycle around the aluminum metal tiles around the outside of the box. Injector based cycles a loop into the cool room (I was lazy here and made it the same loop that chilled the steam turbines because i dont need THAT much cooling on this loop), which uses a set of metal tiles, steel door, metal tiles to connect with a second cool room. Temp sensor in that room controls the door - temp gets above whatever i want my cooling loop to be at? Door closes, cold rushes into the room from the cool room, and eventually the temp stabilises to what it should be - at which point the door slams open and we have delicious vacuum, perfectly thermally isolating things.
The brick design in the spoiler is pump based, the battery/geothermal one is an injector. Heat maps included so you can see how crazy good these are - The only reason my industrial brick is even slightly warm? I made molten glass. That's what it took to even mildly heat that area vs a single aquatuner. The other heat map? That single aquatuner is chilling ALL those batteries, 3 steam turbines, and my ENTIRE BASE, including it's power brick. One aqua tuner. (The heatbloom at the bottom is intentional, by the by - i'm pumping the hot water from my geysers through there to kill off germs in it, while chilling it down before it goes into my main water tank. i actually need to setup a proper infinite storage block for clean water, i'm getting a lot of it)
Also, i upgraded my industrial brick - it now has an attached petroleum boiler. +Glass forges and molecular forges. Hooray! I also beat up space. Stupid space. Full of space stuff.
Drecko ranch has been scrapped as well. With my industrial brick up and running, i now maintain a steady 40 tons of plastic - and if it falls below that amount? On go the plastic presses till i hit that amount again. Insteadi'm ranching pokeshells - I need to do some work to optimize that, including setting up a food store for my Pokeshells, and multiple "Storage" rooms for excess Pokeshells to be delivered too. Or something - the goal here is to get a steady flow of lime, which is my current choke. I mean, i have 60 tons of steel, but my map has only a few tiny fragments of fossil left. The problem i' mrunning into is dupes will not deliver pokeshells elsewhere if there's more than 20 at the delivery point - which given the excess pokeshell "Room" is techincally the entire map, that's... irksome. I have some ideas on how to fix this though.
Considering scrapping the Hatch ranches too, and just ranching voles. I'm sitting on over 200t of refined carbon, i've lost track of how much coal, and i havent even dug out the entire map, and every single one of my power generators that's not my Petroleum generators have shut down because i'm over producing power by a ton (...even my battery brick is full, and i'm still making an excess 400kj every day). So it's probably a more productive use of rancher time at this point? I'll need to do some room re-designs to handle voles though. It's not like my single rancher is exactly busy with life. 16 hatches, 1 Pokeshell, and i still find him out delivering stuff or collecting things because his grooming lasts for so long.
I have vauge plans to build a proper pacu ranch as well, mainly with an eye to getting More Lime via eggshells. a tame pacu lives 25 days and makes 16 eggs during that time, and those eggs could either be cracked, or hatch in a single day if hugged and incubated. Though, i'd need to sort out alage refining, which is going to be a limited process, sicne i dont really want to try and ranch Pufts just to keep a single pacu fed. Feeding the pokeshell alone is going to require a dedicated arbor grove and ethanol distiller. (One distiller is enough to keep a single pokeshell fed all day, and i have no idea what i'll do with the actual ethanol. I'd burn it, but uh... Guess it's time for yet anotehr infintie storage lock)
The more i type this, the more i think i'm going to scrap the hatch ranches and just redesign that whole ranch area to fit in new stuff. I should also really, really figure out ranching molten Slicksters, just to make the whole petroleum refining process more efficient - right now all the c02 that process makes is getting crapped out into space.
I think I still don't get how conveyors work.
I just want to clear an area of debris before it gets drowned in too-hot water.
It's past an atmo-suit checkpoint that only has two suits (and I have other stuff I want my dupes working on anyway), so I figured I'd set up a quick conveyor system to just shift everything inside my base where they can pick it up at their leisure:
I tried just dropping everything from the conveyor, but that resulted in dupes running up, grabbing every 20kg parcel the moment it landed, and just all getting tied up with it.
So I tried a receptacle, and it just gets full and sits there and no-one empties it, even when I set it to manual use.
I think I still don't get how conveyors work.
I just want to clear an area of debris before it gets drowned in too-hot water.
It's past an atmo-suit checkpoint that only has two suits (and I have other stuff I want my dupes working on anyway), so I figured I'd set up a quick conveyor system to just shift everything inside my base where they can pick it up at their leisure:
I tried just dropping everything from the conveyor, but that resulted in dupes running up, grabbing every 20kg parcel the moment it landed, and just all getting tied up with it.
So I tried a receptacle, and it just gets full and sits there and no-one empties it, even when I set it to manual use.
If they're running and picking it up immediately, it means that they want it for something, or they're trying to store it somewhere. Receptacles set to manual use just mean that dupes can put stuff INTO them. The onyl thing receptacles do is act as an end point for where things go. One thing to try - click on a dupe when they're running to grab the 20kg parcel, and see what they're trying to do with it. Storing? Supplying? something else? That'll give you some information on why they're obsessed with it. Like right now, your dupes should only be taking stuff from the receptacle if they need it, as i understand it. Receptacles also dont hold much - only 100kg. You could improve matters by sticking another auto sweeper by the receptacle, and a couple of storage bins - it should pull stuff out the receptacle and put it into the bins.
The best way to make use of conveyor systems for storage/cleaning (in my opinion) is to have a dedicated dump point, and just limit places where you try and pack materials into a container. Like this glorious mess is my central shipping and storage:
The automatic dispensers are set to sweep only. So dupes will only put materials in them if i mark materials for clean up - this blocks the dupes from getting stuck in infinite loops of picking up and dropping materials. The materials are dropped into a short pool of water - this stops the materials from off gassing, if that's a risk. Also acts as a heatsink, which is a pleasant side benefit. Conveyor rails are setup so that where i do have swepers, everything gets shipped back to one of the Chutes, and again - dropped straight in the water. Loaders are set up for various specific resources that always in use, so they're collected and shipped right back out to where i need them. Like in this screenshot you can see coal, sand & igenous rock being shipped out - supplied to my Industrial brick, my various water cleaners, and my hatch ranches specifically. Once i set it all up, it's very hands off.
A second tip - This is personal preference, but I've found building one giant dock and having it as the single entry/exit to the base tends to improve flow drastically. It also cuts down on dupes being dumbarses and leaving suits on the floor or getting stuck (like i have 20 dupes, my dock holds 30 suits, so there's never issues with suits being unavailable or or unoxygented. Though, it does mean this system is a huge oxygen hog, so i have a very big spom to fuel it. Costs and benefits). Also makes it much easier to lock dupes inside the base if need be - like any newbies to the base are not allowed out until they've hit the gym long enough to get Astronomy & Exosuit Training. (Research part isnt neccesary, but it DOES increase the rate they skill up, and when i'm at the point i'm making dupes hit the gym, having them get a bulky 15+ atheltics before they even learn Exosuit training is really nice. It also means they'll grow faster in whatever their actual job is goign to be. again, totally not necessary - just something i like to do)
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
I'm using crude for it's temp range which is larger than polluted water or water. Hard to boil/freeze water using water. Only difference is crude uses a bit more energy to get there.
@The Zombie Penguin I still don't see the appeal, other than future proofing for Super Coolant (put the coolant in the small loop of the pump-free version and have your tuners work even less time for the same amount of cooling.) I guess it's a way to reach the target temp quicker on setup/brownout recovery, but once it's there it shouldn't matter if you're using a icebox or not to keep it that cool; shorter loop doesn't somehow make it take out more DTUs than what the 14C per packet per second the tuner removes does.
Though that might be just me. I tend to take a lax approach to optimizing, which probably bites me in the butt from time to time (especially in regards to power) but also keeps me sane, as letting perfect become the enemy of good and spending too much time on optimizing is a surefire way to have me just give up the current base and start a new one.
That said, you also might be able to make that second one smaller by having it be all metal tile, except for one square in the middle where the thermo sensor and a bit of some liquid (Probably crude, as it would react to the temp changes quickly) so it can gauge the temp of the tiles around it. Radiant pipes are always going to have better conductivity than the matter that makes up the cell it's in (unless you make the mistake of building them out of lead, which I have done a couple times >_<), so you might as well go for broke with keeping it in metal tiles for the heat exchanger.
As for ranching Molten Slicksters, best way I've found is to have the refinery coolant first snake through the ranch until it's over 100C before it starts going through the turbines. Course that requires having the foresight of putting your industry next to your power (don't necessarily need to leave space between them for the ranch though, unless it's side-by-side, as you probably want to build it more like a silo for reasons I'll get into below) Another would be regolith. If you can ship it through insulated tiles and/or vacuum the entire way it should reach there at or around the 300C it impacts the surface at. You could also melt it into magma with a volcano (or an insulated chamber below a rocket silo that sees constant use, which I believe Brothgar did in his latest video) Which effectively increases the amount of heat that's there by a factor of 5.
You might also make everything in your power block out of steel and insulate it and the ranch from the outside world, but you'll probably still need some extra heat from somewhere. This is because slicksters, even molten ones, delete a LOT of heat while eating. Which comes up to the next thing you need to make sure of, that the slicksters never spend ANY time in the oil/petroleum they "produce," because no matter how hot the slickster is, it always comes out literally cold enough to kill them. First attempts at a slickster ranch failed utterly because of this, so you'll need to make sure they're on mesh tiles so the petroleum can drop into a lower chamber with an automated door conveyor to push it to the pump. I have mine on a 200s filter gate, but honestly I could probably do a clock sensor that triggers it once per cycle (I'm also using a CO2 vent, so I didn't have to worry about keeping my refineries next to my power, though I have built an extra petroleum generator or two above it when I needed it. In retrospect, I probably should have built the ranch tall and narrow so I wouldn't have needed quite as long of a conveyor, but eh.
I'm using crude for it's temp range which is larger than polluted water or water. Hard to boil/freeze water using water. Only difference is crude uses a bit more energy to get there.
More than "a bit," you have to run crude oil through the loop at least five times to remove the same amount of heat as running water through twice.
Should only be using crude (or better, petroleum) for temps above 100C. For temps at or below freezing for P.water I usually use ethanol; the way radiant pipes work means the low conductivity doesn't hurt it as much as you'd think compared to crude, and I'm pulling twice as much heat out when the tuner is running that I would with crude or petroleum.
@The Zombie Penguin I still don't see the appeal, other than future proofing for Super Coolant (put the coolant in the small loop of the pump-free version and have your tuners work even less time for the same amount of cooling.) I guess it's a way to reach the target temp quicker on setup/brownout recovery, but once it's there it shouldn't matter if you're using a icebox or not to keep it that cool; shorter loop doesn't somehow make it take out more DTUs than what the 14C per packet per second the tuner removes does.
I wish i knew the math on this stuff - i will say i've seen vastly better results ever since using an icebox design than when i was trying to just hook stuff straight through the aquatuners. ceartinly, it's a lot easier to build customzied loops using icebox designs - you can for instance have multiple chill rooms atached to the icebox, just with different settings in them on when they open the door.
Also part of the point of all that liquid is just have a huge chunk of thermal mass - so the loop chills very, very fast when it passes through.
My current slickster plan is just to give them an Aquatuner, and run petroleum through it to make the heat. Power inefficient, but the way i'm running my base i am generating 12-15k watts constantly. As you do. So i've gotta do SOMETHING with all that power.... (Pro tip: Petroleum boilers are hot bullshit in the best way). And an aquatuner seems like the best way to keep the room nice and toasty - and have precision control over exactly how toasty. Plus it'll actually make the entire system Petroleum postive, rather than neutral. Though i'm not going to try and ranch enough to eat the entire output, that would be, well, insane. So, so insane.
Still, setting all this up should be a fun project. I also need to set up an arbor tree farm and ethanol refining setup... because that seems to be the best way to get Polluted dirt, and one Ethanol Distiller running all day is enough to feed one pokeshell. All this to get lime. (And since i think i have a polluted oxygen vent somewhere, maybe i'll setup some sort of algae creation system to feed a pacu. Maybe.) Once i've nailed all of that into place, i'll actually start figuring out firing off some ROCKETS into space.
Well I finally am making it into the mid game and I think I’m doing decently well. I have enough power, several cooling turbines going although I really need to reorganize. However I have a real problem.
The magma had a POI spawn and break the abyssalite barrier into the oil biome at the bottom. I’ve walled it off on either side but I didn’t notice it until it got so hot it broke through the top of the oil biome just below my base. So I have a single layer of insulation tiles at the bottom of my base staving off ever increasing temps. Currently it’s nearly 300C. What kinds of approaches would you guys suggest to tackle this?
Well I finally am making it into the mid game and I think I’m doing decently well. I have enough power, several cooling turbines going although I really need to reorganize. However I have a real problem.
The magma had a POI spawn and break the abyssalite barrier into the oil biome at the bottom. I’ve walled it off on either side but I didn’t notice it until it got so hot it broke through the top of the oil biome just below my base. So I have a single layer of insulation tiles at the bottom of my base staving off ever increasing temps. Currently it’s nearly 300C. What kinds of approaches would you guys suggest to tackle this?
Turn it into geothermal power; Pour excess water in the space below the insulated tiles and build at least one steam turbine on it. The heat capacity of good ol' H2O is about 4 times greater than igneous rock/magma and 20 times greater than obsidian, so it should keep things from getting hotter (or at least, too hot that the cooling loops can't keep up with it to make sure the turbines keep running)
Once it cools down enough that you're no longer getting a useful amount of power out of it (and it will, especially if it's "just" a magma vent and doesn't have a volcano buried in there somewhere) you can start digging into it for more heat, and then when there is enough space cleared, wall it off from the rest of the vent with insulated tiles, wait for the turbine to run out of steam (pun unintended) and rebuild it below after extending or adding a cooling loop to it; our you can just keep it there waiting for the day steel is no longer required to build anything down there first.
Thanks for that. Was able to dump a bunch of polluted water on it and get it cool enough to walk off the break in the magma later for the time being and now to just let the turbine run awhile to cool it further.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
So I've put it off long enough, but I have breached the space biome.
i started a new game the other day, 200 cycles in i decided to finally try to make some sort of cooling loop with aquatuners and steam turbines but the damned thing doesn't work at all, i guess i didn't use enough tempshift plates or something but to get in there to fix it would be nearly impossible.
think i'm going to take a break, it took me like 30 cycles of play to get that thing setup and it's not working and everything is overheating now. alas, oni is a good game but i think it's too hard to build the high level structures you need to get into the late game.
Knight_ on
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Can you post a screenshot of it? Pipelayout and automation.
People here should be able to point out what went wrong.
These things can be finicky, but once you have it working, and can see how the systems work together it starts making sense and opens up a lot of different build options.
This is at it's heart a game of making mistakes and learning how the systems work.
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
And I don't have a screenshot handy, but I am very happy with my steam vent+salt water vent tamer setup.
It is a joy to watch as it runs with all the different inputs and outputs snaking around, and the various automation systems make it self regulating with zero manual input.
Though my "enough water" trigger just cuts the power and then it eventually sputters out when it runs out of steam over a few cycles. Not the most elegant, but with so many different system on their own automation loops that are made to try and keep things running, that one power cable was the most simple target.
I'm constantly finding myself in a place where I know what I want to do next (Go and do X), but I can't because I don't have Y. Getting Y means that I have to do Z, but I won't have the means to effectively do that until I can do X.
I'm right at the edge of my first oil biome, but it's taking forever for my dupes to get down to it so building is at a crawl. Sounds like I need some transit tubes. Fine, I'll just get some plastic from this oil biome.
Hmm.
(I have a glossy drekko farm that's slowly getting me what I need, but it's taking forever)
Given the name of the game, I'm finding it quite funny that oxygen is the one thing I'm really not having trouble with.
(also, I got a care package of Pacu, then reloaded so I could get something useful. Am I missing something or is there no way to move them to a fish drop-off when they're flopping around on the ground? The only way I could see was to make a pool somewhere in flopping range (which wasn't happening with my base layout) then building fish traps with my plentiful supplies of plastic.)
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
I'm constantly finding myself in a place where I know what I want to do next (Go and do X), but I can't because I don't have Y. Getting Y means that I have to do Z, but I won't have the means to effectively do that until I can do X.
I'm right at the edge of my first oil biome, but it's taking forever for my dupes to get down to it so building is at a crawl. Sounds like I need some transit tubes. Fine, I'll just get some plastic from this oil biome.
Hmm.
(I have a glossy drekko farm that's slowly getting me what I need, but it's taking forever)
Given the name of the game, I'm finding it quite funny that oxygen is the one thing I'm really not having trouble with.
(also, I got a care package of Pacu, then reloaded so I could get something useful. Am I missing something or is there no way to move them to a fish drop-off when they're flopping around on the ground? The only way I could see was to make a pool somewhere in flopping range (which wasn't happening with my base layout) then building fish traps with my plentiful supplies of plastic.)
You want a hole next to your portal for the fish to drop into. Some people just do a 1 tile dip, since that works fine and holds an indefinite number of fish. Mine is slightly more elaborate but less efficient since it looks better imo.
It is a surprisingly powerful setup. You get 1 fillet per fish every 25 cycles, and some egg shells. I've taken the 8 fish drop whenever it presented itself, and it is providing a massive surplus of food for my 16 dupes to the point that I am sad I can't really dabble with the other food production setups.
But it is also effort free, and I am short on effort since I have 101 things to do not including going to space! so my semi-exploity fish farm stays.
I do have about 80 eggs in a water pit that have become a regular source of meat. If I can set up a pacu farm as well, that's some high quality meals in the future.
I'm constantly finding myself in a place where I know what I want to do next (Go and do X), but I can't because I don't have Y. Getting Y means that I have to do Z, but I won't have the means to effectively do that until I can do X.
I'm right at the edge of my first oil biome, but it's taking forever for my dupes to get down to it so building is at a crawl. Sounds like I need some transit tubes. Fine, I'll just get some plastic from this oil biome.
Hmm.
(I have a glossy drekko farm that's slowly getting me what I need, but it's taking forever)
Given the name of the game, I'm finding it quite funny that oxygen is the one thing I'm really not having trouble with.
(also, I got a care package of Pacu, then reloaded so I could get something useful. Am I missing something or is there no way to move them to a fish drop-off when they're flopping around on the ground? The only way I could see was to make a pool somewhere in flopping range (which wasn't happening with my base layout) then building fish traps with my plentiful supplies of plastic.)
You always want to build fire poles to the oil biome as companion to your ladders. That will get dupes down to the bottom quickly.
Once everything it built, a dupe usually only needs to go there every 3 cycles or so to relieve pressure from the oil well (when you run out of free-floating oil) or to mine out more lead/fossil, and you can build the oil refinery somewhere more accessible. Just make sure both are in enclosed spaces that also have a nearby gas pump for the natural gas byproduct both make, as you can get a decent amount of power from both.
i started a new game the other day, 200 cycles in i decided to finally try to make some sort of cooling loop with aquatuners and steam turbines but the damned thing doesn't work at all, i guess i didn't use enough tempshift plates or something but to get in there to fix it would be nearly impossible.
think i'm going to take a break, it took me like 30 cycles of play to get that thing setup and it's not working and everything is overheating now. alas, oni is a good game but i think it's too hard to build the high level structures you need to get into the late game.
Without more details, I'm just going to throw out a bunch of random things that could cause problems.
1.) you only want about 1000-1500kg of water in the steam chamber, otherwise there's too much mass for the tuner to boil effectively, which can lead to it overheating if it's running all the time. Easy fix if this is your problem; worm the exhaust pipe for the turbine from out behind it and add a liquid shutoff, set to stay open as long as the pool you're dumping the extra water is below what the extra water you need to get rid of is, and use any automation sensors to regulate the aquatuner's temp until the turbine kicks on.
2.) usually also good idea to get rid of any air in the steam chamber, or at least any hydrogen, Polluted oxygen or natural gas, or otherwise it might get in the way of the turbine intakes (any other gas is heavier than steam, so it won't get it the way, though too much of it might impair heating the steam after the water has been boiled.) You could build a gas pump that you leave in there (usually can deconstruct it through a corner so you don't have a permanent "building broken" notice, though whatever materials it was made of will be stuck in there unless you're *really* clever) or fill the bottom 2/3rds with crude oil (having almost 4x the conductivity of water, and a much lower capacity, it shouldn't impede heating the water too much.) Easy fix; you can extend the size of the steam chamber without breaching it by build a tile adjacent to the side and then deconstructing the tile you built in next to from corner (gases don't move diagonally, so you won't breach the chamber) you can do this to create a little "bubble" next to the turbine for lighter gases to get pushed into, and a small pit (probably filled with airflow tiles to make sure water doesn't get stuck down there) if heavier gases are consistently covering one or more tiles of the tuner.
3.) If it's made out of gold amalgam (anything less than that will fry before the steam is hot enough for the turbine), you'll also need a temp sensor for the chamber, as on top of the one for the liquid being piped, and use it to manage the initial heat buildup, because gold amalgam's tiny as fuck thermal capacity means it will shoot up in temp at an ungodly rate and *will* fry itself before the water gets even close boiling if left unattended (especially if it's not sitting in crude with it's higher conductivity). It's so annoying, I'd actually recommend never building it out of anything less than Steel; Might still want a temp sensor just to be safe, but then at least you can set it to 220C (Turbines reach their max output at 200C, so no need to let it go much higher) and never have to think about it again. Easy Fix: There really isn't one. you *could* use the trick above to move a side wall closer to the tuner to deconstruct from the top corner (will probably need some ladders for dupes to get the right angle) but if the water hasn't boiled yet, and sometimes even if it has, it would frankly be easier to just breach the chamber and either use yellow alert to make the adjustments as quickly as possible or start from square 1.)
3a.) bypass for when the tuner is shut off to keep the coolant circulating should take no more than 1 tile of pipe to reach a liquid bridge, and the output pipe should only have to be 2 tiles from the tuner to connect with to the endpoint of said liquid bridge, otherwise liquid will get stuck in the bypass, which can lead to anything from slowing and sometimes even stopping the cooling loop to pipes breaking from the stuck liquid getting too hot.
4.) For the loop itself, you usually want polluted water, same thermal capacity as regular water with a larger temp range. 99% of the time, radiant pipes behind or within a tile of what you want you cool is enough; avoid lead, use copper or gold before you'd consider iron, and iron before steel. But if you have aluminum on your map, use that, it's thermal conductivity is simply bonkers. Easy fixes: to change out the liquid, you can put a bridge leading out of the loop, and once it's empty, deconstruct that and build a new bridge to bring the new liquid in, and pipes can be replaced by a different type of pipe by building over them without having to empty them first.
Sadly, my current base has hit the point where my computer is struggling to play it and it's just not fun anymore. No space for me this run. Still, i learned a ton!
One final project before i decided to end things was an upgraded kitchen design. It features vacum based food storage solutions (Ensuring food is both , clever automation to handle providing food to be cooked, and since my bases are prone to copiously overproducing on food? It also has a waste disposal system so all that excess food can be flushed and turned into tasty tasty polluted dirt. (and therefore used for clay production or whatever else i want polluted dirt/polluted oxygen for)
A big step up over my previous base. I'm thinking that for my next run i'm going to lets play it here - do updates on how the base is devleoping and goals, and what dupes i've been yelling at. On that note, who wants dupes named after them? The starting dupes are going to be two molehanded abominators of digging, and a scientist.
The next map is going to be Rime - Volcanos, Metal Rich, Geoactive and Geodes. So on the one hand: Lots of resources to play with. On the other hand: Extremes of temp in both directions, with serious hot patches i'll have to carefully work, and lots of hard to dig through stuff. I'm also finally going to do a survival run, so this should be good.
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It takes 110°C steam and 95°C salt water and outputs ~60°C clean water.
Only 1 aqautuner runs at a time, water gets added as needed and the temp tries to stay between 130-150°C. I recover about 2/3rds of the power required to run it.
Still playing with the numbers since I want the final output to be about 70°C ideally.
And it's now 100% hands-off.
And if I have some poluted water or brine or anything to get rid off, I can just attach it to my input pipe and presto. Sweepers pick up any solid outputs and drops it in the cooling loop by the steam turbines.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
I mean, I think my solution only works for hatches, but it's two mechanical doors, a critter sensor, a critter drop off, a mesh tile and two NOT gates and two BUFFER gates. I've seen kill systems with seriously complex wiring and just....
I guess maybe they're for any critter? I dunno. But it's surprisingly easy to do.
So without too much trouble, I have 8 dupes who eat only burgers now. :P Hell, on No Sweat mode, a single lettuce plant (Waterwort? Waterweed?) is enough and I'll never need to set up a sleet wheat farm. I have too many buns as it is.
That's a nice change from my previous bases where eating a burger was a rare treat.
I've automated the fertilizer refining, filtration and composting (Excepting the mixing of the compost, which you'd think there'd be an upgrade to automate that), and power generation (Excepting tune ups of course).
One thing bugs me:
So, I was clearing the slime biomes using a pair of water airlocks to contain my chlorine zone. Within the chlorine zone I'd have it at max pressure (2kg/tile) and there'd be two algae distillers and containment to ensure all algae and slime was purifed by the chlorine before going any further. The pressure of the chlorine would keep the slime from forming polluting oxygen, so I wouldn't have to worry about pockets of polluted oxygen messing with the purification.
I decided to try to automate things so I wouldn't have to use a water airlock, and instead have the dupes wear atmo supes while digging, and put the slime and alge into a conveyor loader, which goes into a sealed chlorine room, and an autosweeper places the stuff into the distillers/storage.
But even at max pressure, there is polluted oxygen forming. I don't get it. Why does polluted oxygen form in this chamber, but not when the dupes are manually moving things around?
A puddle of liquid will occupy the entire tile but won't be high enough pressure to prevent off gassing.
A useful, if hacky, technique to over pressurise rooms for storage.
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Materials still sublimate on conveyor tracks, and I'm not 100% sure they care about air pressure while on there. All it takes is one puft and they now have a tile of low pressure polluted O2 to continue to dissolve in.
I find it easier to have the storage in a puddle on the floor, which will make absolute certain the slime doesn't become P. O2. Yeah, it doesn't get rid of the slimelung before it becomes algae, but you can use some automation to give the chlorine time to kill off the germs (I *think* algae will still interact with the air in a conveyor loader, so you can set a clock sensor connect to the loader, and the auto-sweeper through a NOT gate, set to go active for about 10% of the day, which will give enough time for the loader to send off all the algae, with the auto-sweeper prevented from adding in more and contaminating the clean algae going out) and as long as it never gets stored in a way it can start to turn into polluted oxygen there is no way for your dupes to get sick from the slimelung in the p. water.
Part of the reason I mention it is I skipped setting up glossy dreckos early this time and still got my industrial brick up easily enough - even scavenging a tiny bit from gravitas triggers the printing pod to make it for you.
The line about the cooling also confuses me, honestly - I use the same cooling loop for keeping my kilns, metal refinery's, rock crushers and everything chill, and it's an icy 1c in there. Even before I get a cooling loop setup, it should be easy enough to just slam some ice tempshift plates behind things as a stop gap while I'm building stuff. Ice tempshift plates are the silliest things. (I beat up a volcano heat bloom with them!). Right now i'm plastering my frozen core in them to help keep it pretty cold, and freeze the output of a P02 geyser because... Eh, why not. Have a zone where it rains C02 is amusing to me.
As to water... Once you harness geysers it feels like water stops being an issue. I've only ever had water issues when I've delayed even crude harnessing of geysers. Heck at in my current game I've already created an infinite storage tank for p02, and I need to do the same for clean water. (though admittedly, this map is nutty what with 3 cool steam, 1 steam, 2 pw and 1 slush. I'm still yet to harness the slush or the other p02).
I dunno. This is stuff i'm poking at and figuring out. There's certainly advantages to Drecko ranches, but they're also a very slow way to get plastic. On the other hand, they're mostly passive and minimal dupe time once setup, and as noted they do make more than just plastic. But on the other other hand, When you can industrialise plastic production, is it really that beneficial to have a passive trickle of it? If it's not, then is it worth trying to rush a ranch to get that trickle pre Industry, or is it better to instead rush the industry itself?
This is the sort of stuff i enjoy figuring out. Which reminds me, i need
Thanks for that link, @Foefaller. I'd seen it already - honestly, i need to rewatch it a few times and let the concepts digest, because it feels too complex for me right now? Not sure how to put it. Gotta give my brain time to wrap around the concepts and eat em all up
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That, plus the fact that there is no slime biome in Badlands was the reason I set up an early drecko ranch this map, which, once I got some thimble reed seeds from the printing pod were bred into glossy (because I already had them, so why not?) Last base on Volcanea and going for Super Sustainable, it was the only way I was going to get plastic for a long time thanks to the several hundred tiles of 800°C+ rock and obsidian between me and the oil biome, and with the restrictions for the achievement I absolutely needed those turbines if I was going to produce enough power to continue to keep my base out of scalding temperatures. And even then I don't think I ever used the polymer press because I was already needing to run two aquatuners just to keep the base at a livable temp and the cooling magma vents meant I didn't have the power for a third (actually, I think it would have been 5th?)
The valuing water thing might be another learned habit from EA though; there was no tidepool biome with guaranteed salt water geyser until the launch update, so you had to go in assuming that the two steam vents were they only infinite sources of water you were going to get.
...and the line about using a cooling loop for your industrial block confuses me. Kilns can't overheat, and can make enough ceramic by the time you unlock Metal Refineries that you can make them out of it, which means it's not going to overheat unless the room it's in is nearly hot enough to melt lead, which you could prevent by, humorously enough, running the crude oil or petrol coolant around a bit in radiant pipes after it's cycled through the steam chamber until it's *only* 125°C. And as long as you aren't putting the rock crusher in the same exact room, in most maps it should stay cool enough on it's own without almost any cooling whatsoever, certainly not super coolant cool. You're spending 1.2kw of power to do something you should only need atmo suits and, at most, 8kg/cycle of phosporite and a pair of wheezeworts to do.
If you're worried about atmo suits limiting dupe access for delivery, just make a metal ore storage of priority 8 containers with a priority 9 loader for each ore, each leading to it's own receptacle, which will hold 100kg of that metal in reserve and keep the rest from being set in by virtue of backing up the line until the refinery order is made. That should make sure you only need the dupes who run the block inside without having all your metal ore stuck in there as well.
But seriously, my current setup is costing me about 300 kj to run the aquatuner. So you know, a right pittance. When the brick is going full tilt... I actually start making power. 8 turbines is Overkill, but boy do they do work. That and I only have 3 aquatuners on the map. You just... Don't need a lot of them when you use icebox designs. They pump out disturbing amounts of cooling
I've only even got near brownouts when I had every single refinery running before I installed the extras.
Mostly I just like keeping it cool because it saves me headaches - I centralize my storage, I don't have to worry about anything going screwed, the whole thing just works. Heck, that's what I should do down the bottom - slam a glass forge in and give this baby some real heat to play with.
I get the impression we've got pretty different playstyles and ways of thinking about what we're trying to do in the game. (Which is cool! I enjoy contrasting things).
Map difference also a significant thing - I'm on a geoactive rime map so whooo boy, water is not an issue.
Well early game stopping it freezing in bad places were, but that's not been a problem for hundreds of cycles
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This was my suspicion.
Dammit. Then I either exchange the air once in a while, or completely tear down my slime processing area.
Bleh.
You're still playing on No Sweat too, right? Most of my cooling efforts are related to farming, because I find that on Survival getting ranching large enough to sustain a reasonable dupe population without at least early mealwood planter boxes is simply not possible when they are eating 1000kcal/cycle, at least if you want more than 3-4 dupes before cycle 30. And once the farming conditions are set, expansion is usually really quick; add a bridge or two, some radiant pipe, wait a couple cycles and voila, another room cool enough for whatever it is you want to grow.
You can run the conveyer belts through tiles.
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This map has zero ice biomes, and hence no nullifies and so many sources of heat. I have 1 cool slush gesyer so far, but I buried it under a mile of salt water by accedent. Gonna take a lot of cycles to clean that up.
So I don't do anything that produces net heat if I don't have to.
I am over 1k cycles and I still don't use electrolyzers for base oxygen, only for atmosuit stations, since I don't need to cool it that way.
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I would guess it does, the game is pretty good about preserving mass on inputs and outputs.
They are, and the conveyor receptacle is right adjacent to the tile, but it's still putting out polluted oxygen.
I think what I'll do is have two chambers. One for the distillers and no chlorine and one for the storage with chlorine and only algae will go into the chlorine room.
All I need to do is freeze an entire subsurface ocean's worth of water (plus all the map's poluted water + some vents), dig it out into loose ice, and then it will just occupy a tile. Until I forget about it, some heat gets in, and the entire thing explodes.
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It's win win!
At first I thought this was saying I had over a million mealwood seeds (which seemed improbable), but I guess I've somehow lost 0.7646 of a seed somewhere?
I can't find where the remaining .2354 is, so this is just going to bug me.
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To check, your not plugging the loop straight into an aquatuner are you? Icebox designs give you way more chilling
On rime, early the issue tends to be reversed - I had to learn how to build a heating loop so that my plants wouldn't freeze to death. Thankfully, that's pretty easy to do. Though I did lose my nature reserve to a flooding accident. Plants do not like being submerged in negative 15c water
@klemming - it's a bug with storage containers. A very annoying one!
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The most generic one is steam turbine on top of two aqautuners encased in ceramic with water/vacuum that run radiant pipes of crude oil through a giant pool of crude oil encased in metal tiles. 7x14 tiles of it.
It's purpose is just to cool everything around it and usually lives in the middle of a hot area, and then I snake pipes off it using the "bridge" trick to keep the coolant flowing without needing a pump.
Then I have a smaller design that goes over a metal volcano or that metal refinery one I posted earlier (which needs a second or third steam turbine added) to remove heat from a closed loop, but not really cool anything outside itself.
They only setup where I use the aqautuner to cool something directly was my weird steam vent/salt water vent setup I posted yesterday.
Which btw works really well! Foefaller was correct about the bypass pipe by the aqautuner. Water got stuck in there and eventually broke the pipe, so I've removed the bypass. There isn't really a likely scenario where there would be water sitting in the aquatuner pipe.
e.g.
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Never heard of an "icebox" design. From your previous comments, I'm guessing you're using a p water or super coolant cooling loop to make ice and then use it as tempshift plates where you need them?
Not sure if that's actually better. Unless tempshift are an exception, I believe buildings (which IIRC for heat/gameplay purposes means pretty much everything buildable except tiles) are normally treated as having only 1/5 their actual mass for heat capacity purposes, so a building of ice is going to take less heat out of the area before it melts than the same mass of ice as debris, even if the building has a faster change in the temperature thanks to (usually) touching more cells and the formula used for building-to-occupied-cells heat transfer being more favorable for sudden temp changes.
The other meaning I can think of is making a freezing cold room with a small loop to chill the larger loop. This would be a superior setup if you are maximising the limited super coolant you might have for the small loop, or want to keep that room colder than the rest for other reasons, but if both loops are using water or polluted water* there really isn't any point; tuner+turbine is going to take the same amount of DTUs out of the world regardless of how long or short the loop is. Only the heat capacity of the liquid flowing through it matters.
Worth noting that Crude is a really bad coolant to be using in that sort of system. Polluted Water or just Water (As long as things arent going to break/vaporize in the pipes) have much better ability to move heat around. My coolant pipes are currently all either water or p.water - When i get super coolant, i'll probablyt use some of that somewhere ,but right now? No real need.
@Foefaller the following screenshots have a couple of takes on the icebox design - Pump based and Injector based. Pump based is a lot more space efficient, but obviously a lot more power hungry. Injector based is waaaay more power efficient, but like 2-3 times as big. These things are amazing at giving you consistent temperature. Also you get to leverage all that delicious thermal mass of the water. Pump-based pulls water from a contained room (I dunno how mine managed to offgass, it's annoying - i need to fix that but have been lazy), pumps it into the aquatuner and drops it right back in, with radiant piping for the aquatuner's output on the way to the drop. The cooling loops cycle around the aluminum metal tiles around the outside of the box. Injector based cycles a loop into the cool room (I was lazy here and made it the same loop that chilled the steam turbines because i dont need THAT much cooling on this loop), which uses a set of metal tiles, steel door, metal tiles to connect with a second cool room. Temp sensor in that room controls the door - temp gets above whatever i want my cooling loop to be at? Door closes, cold rushes into the room from the cool room, and eventually the temp stabilises to what it should be - at which point the door slams open and we have delicious vacuum, perfectly thermally isolating things.
The brick design in the spoiler is pump based, the battery/geothermal one is an injector. Heat maps included so you can see how crazy good these are - The only reason my industrial brick is even slightly warm? I made molten glass. That's what it took to even mildly heat that area vs a single aquatuner. The other heat map? That single aquatuner is chilling ALL those batteries, 3 steam turbines, and my ENTIRE BASE, including it's power brick. One aqua tuner. (The heatbloom at the bottom is intentional, by the by - i'm pumping the hot water from my geysers through there to kill off germs in it, while chilling it down before it goes into my main water tank. i actually need to setup a proper infinite storage block for clean water, i'm getting a lot of it)
Also, i upgraded my industrial brick - it now has an attached petroleum boiler. +Glass forges and molecular forges. Hooray! I also beat up space. Stupid space. Full of space stuff.
Drecko ranch has been scrapped as well. With my industrial brick up and running, i now maintain a steady 40 tons of plastic - and if it falls below that amount? On go the plastic presses till i hit that amount again. Insteadi'm ranching pokeshells - I need to do some work to optimize that, including setting up a food store for my Pokeshells, and multiple "Storage" rooms for excess Pokeshells to be delivered too. Or something - the goal here is to get a steady flow of lime, which is my current choke. I mean, i have 60 tons of steel, but my map has only a few tiny fragments of fossil left. The problem i' mrunning into is dupes will not deliver pokeshells elsewhere if there's more than 20 at the delivery point - which given the excess pokeshell "Room" is techincally the entire map, that's... irksome. I have some ideas on how to fix this though.
Considering scrapping the Hatch ranches too, and just ranching voles. I'm sitting on over 200t of refined carbon, i've lost track of how much coal, and i havent even dug out the entire map, and every single one of my power generators that's not my Petroleum generators have shut down because i'm over producing power by a ton (...even my battery brick is full, and i'm still making an excess 400kj every day). So it's probably a more productive use of rancher time at this point? I'll need to do some room re-designs to handle voles though. It's not like my single rancher is exactly busy with life. 16 hatches, 1 Pokeshell, and i still find him out delivering stuff or collecting things because his grooming lasts for so long.
I have vauge plans to build a proper pacu ranch as well, mainly with an eye to getting More Lime via eggshells. a tame pacu lives 25 days and makes 16 eggs during that time, and those eggs could either be cracked, or hatch in a single day if hugged and incubated. Though, i'd need to sort out alage refining, which is going to be a limited process, sicne i dont really want to try and ranch Pufts just to keep a single pacu fed. Feeding the pokeshell alone is going to require a dedicated arbor grove and ethanol distiller. (One distiller is enough to keep a single pokeshell fed all day, and i have no idea what i'll do with the actual ethanol. I'd burn it, but uh... Guess it's time for yet anotehr infintie storage lock)
The more i type this, the more i think i'm going to scrap the hatch ranches and just redesign that whole ranch area to fit in new stuff. I should also really, really figure out ranching molten Slicksters, just to make the whole petroleum refining process more efficient - right now all the c02 that process makes is getting crapped out into space.
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I just want to clear an area of debris before it gets drowned in too-hot water.
It's past an atmo-suit checkpoint that only has two suits (and I have other stuff I want my dupes working on anyway), so I figured I'd set up a quick conveyor system to just shift everything inside my base where they can pick it up at their leisure:
So I tried a receptacle, and it just gets full and sits there and no-one empties it, even when I set it to manual use.
What's my best option here?
@klemming
If they're running and picking it up immediately, it means that they want it for something, or they're trying to store it somewhere. Receptacles set to manual use just mean that dupes can put stuff INTO them. The onyl thing receptacles do is act as an end point for where things go. One thing to try - click on a dupe when they're running to grab the 20kg parcel, and see what they're trying to do with it. Storing? Supplying? something else? That'll give you some information on why they're obsessed with it. Like right now, your dupes should only be taking stuff from the receptacle if they need it, as i understand it. Receptacles also dont hold much - only 100kg. You could improve matters by sticking another auto sweeper by the receptacle, and a couple of storage bins - it should pull stuff out the receptacle and put it into the bins.
The best way to make use of conveyor systems for storage/cleaning (in my opinion) is to have a dedicated dump point, and just limit places where you try and pack materials into a container. Like this glorious mess is my central shipping and storage:
The automatic dispensers are set to sweep only. So dupes will only put materials in them if i mark materials for clean up - this blocks the dupes from getting stuck in infinite loops of picking up and dropping materials. The materials are dropped into a short pool of water - this stops the materials from off gassing, if that's a risk. Also acts as a heatsink, which is a pleasant side benefit. Conveyor rails are setup so that where i do have swepers, everything gets shipped back to one of the Chutes, and again - dropped straight in the water. Loaders are set up for various specific resources that always in use, so they're collected and shipped right back out to where i need them. Like in this screenshot you can see coal, sand & igenous rock being shipped out - supplied to my Industrial brick, my various water cleaners, and my hatch ranches specifically. Once i set it all up, it's very hands off.
A second tip - This is personal preference, but I've found building one giant dock and having it as the single entry/exit to the base tends to improve flow drastically. It also cuts down on dupes being dumbarses and leaving suits on the floor or getting stuck (like i have 20 dupes, my dock holds 30 suits, so there's never issues with suits being unavailable or or unoxygented. Though, it does mean this system is a huge oxygen hog, so i have a very big spom to fuel it. Costs and benefits). Also makes it much easier to lock dupes inside the base if need be - like any newbies to the base are not allowed out until they've hit the gym long enough to get Astronomy & Exosuit Training. (Research part isnt neccesary, but it DOES increase the rate they skill up, and when i'm at the point i'm making dupes hit the gym, having them get a bulky 15+ atheltics before they even learn Exosuit training is really nice. It also means they'll grow faster in whatever their actual job is goign to be. again, totally not necessary - just something i like to do)
I hope that all helps!
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Though that might be just me. I tend to take a lax approach to optimizing, which probably bites me in the butt from time to time (especially in regards to power) but also keeps me sane, as letting perfect become the enemy of good and spending too much time on optimizing is a surefire way to have me just give up the current base and start a new one.
That said, you also might be able to make that second one smaller by having it be all metal tile, except for one square in the middle where the thermo sensor and a bit of some liquid (Probably crude, as it would react to the temp changes quickly) so it can gauge the temp of the tiles around it. Radiant pipes are always going to have better conductivity than the matter that makes up the cell it's in (unless you make the mistake of building them out of lead, which I have done a couple times >_<), so you might as well go for broke with keeping it in metal tiles for the heat exchanger.
As for ranching Molten Slicksters, best way I've found is to have the refinery coolant first snake through the ranch until it's over 100C before it starts going through the turbines. Course that requires having the foresight of putting your industry next to your power (don't necessarily need to leave space between them for the ranch though, unless it's side-by-side, as you probably want to build it more like a silo for reasons I'll get into below) Another would be regolith. If you can ship it through insulated tiles and/or vacuum the entire way it should reach there at or around the 300C it impacts the surface at. You could also melt it into magma with a volcano (or an insulated chamber below a rocket silo that sees constant use, which I believe Brothgar did in his latest video) Which effectively increases the amount of heat that's there by a factor of 5.
You might also make everything in your power block out of steel and insulate it and the ranch from the outside world, but you'll probably still need some extra heat from somewhere. This is because slicksters, even molten ones, delete a LOT of heat while eating. Which comes up to the next thing you need to make sure of, that the slicksters never spend ANY time in the oil/petroleum they "produce," because no matter how hot the slickster is, it always comes out literally cold enough to kill them. First attempts at a slickster ranch failed utterly because of this, so you'll need to make sure they're on mesh tiles so the petroleum can drop into a lower chamber with an automated door conveyor to push it to the pump. I have mine on a 200s filter gate, but honestly I could probably do a clock sensor that triggers it once per cycle (I'm also using a CO2 vent, so I didn't have to worry about keeping my refineries next to my power, though I have built an extra petroleum generator or two above it when I needed it. In retrospect, I probably should have built the ranch tall and narrow so I wouldn't have needed quite as long of a conveyor, but eh.
More than "a bit," you have to run crude oil through the loop at least five times to remove the same amount of heat as running water through twice.
Should only be using crude (or better, petroleum) for temps above 100C. For temps at or below freezing for P.water I usually use ethanol; the way radiant pipes work means the low conductivity doesn't hurt it as much as you'd think compared to crude, and I'm pulling twice as much heat out when the tuner is running that I would with crude or petroleum.
I wish i knew the math on this stuff - i will say i've seen vastly better results ever since using an icebox design than when i was trying to just hook stuff straight through the aquatuners. ceartinly, it's a lot easier to build customzied loops using icebox designs - you can for instance have multiple chill rooms atached to the icebox, just with different settings in them on when they open the door.
Also part of the point of all that liquid is just have a huge chunk of thermal mass - so the loop chills very, very fast when it passes through.
My current slickster plan is just to give them an Aquatuner, and run petroleum through it to make the heat. Power inefficient, but the way i'm running my base i am generating 12-15k watts constantly. As you do. So i've gotta do SOMETHING with all that power.... (Pro tip: Petroleum boilers are hot bullshit in the best way). And an aquatuner seems like the best way to keep the room nice and toasty - and have precision control over exactly how toasty. Plus it'll actually make the entire system Petroleum postive, rather than neutral. Though i'm not going to try and ranch enough to eat the entire output, that would be, well, insane. So, so insane.
Still, setting all this up should be a fun project. I also need to set up an arbor tree farm and ethanol refining setup... because that seems to be the best way to get Polluted dirt, and one Ethanol Distiller running all day is enough to feed one pokeshell. All this to get lime. (And since i think i have a polluted oxygen vent somewhere, maybe i'll setup some sort of algae creation system to feed a pacu. Maybe.) Once i've nailed all of that into place, i'll actually start figuring out firing off some ROCKETS into space.
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The magma had a POI spawn and break the abyssalite barrier into the oil biome at the bottom. I’ve walled it off on either side but I didn’t notice it until it got so hot it broke through the top of the oil biome just below my base. So I have a single layer of insulation tiles at the bottom of my base staving off ever increasing temps. Currently it’s nearly 300C. What kinds of approaches would you guys suggest to tackle this?
Turn it into geothermal power; Pour excess water in the space below the insulated tiles and build at least one steam turbine on it. The heat capacity of good ol' H2O is about 4 times greater than igneous rock/magma and 20 times greater than obsidian, so it should keep things from getting hotter (or at least, too hot that the cooling loops can't keep up with it to make sure the turbines keep running)
Once it cools down enough that you're no longer getting a useful amount of power out of it (and it will, especially if it's "just" a magma vent and doesn't have a volcano buried in there somewhere) you can start digging into it for more heat, and then when there is enough space cleared, wall it off from the rest of the vent with insulated tiles, wait for the turbine to run out of steam (pun unintended) and rebuild it below after extending or adding a cooling loop to it; our you can just keep it there waiting for the day steel is no longer required to build anything down there first.
Time to build a spaceship!
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think i'm going to take a break, it took me like 30 cycles of play to get that thing setup and it's not working and everything is overheating now. alas, oni is a good game but i think it's too hard to build the high level structures you need to get into the late game.
People here should be able to point out what went wrong.
These things can be finicky, but once you have it working, and can see how the systems work together it starts making sense and opens up a lot of different build options.
This is at it's heart a game of making mistakes and learning how the systems work.
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It is a joy to watch as it runs with all the different inputs and outputs snaking around, and the various automation systems make it self regulating with zero manual input.
Though my "enough water" trigger just cuts the power and then it eventually sputters out when it runs out of steam over a few cycles. Not the most elegant, but with so many different system on their own automation loops that are made to try and keep things running, that one power cable was the most simple target.
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I'm right at the edge of my first oil biome, but it's taking forever for my dupes to get down to it so building is at a crawl. Sounds like I need some transit tubes. Fine, I'll just get some plastic from this oil biome.
Hmm.
(I have a glossy drekko farm that's slowly getting me what I need, but it's taking forever)
Given the name of the game, I'm finding it quite funny that oxygen is the one thing I'm really not having trouble with.
(also, I got a care package of Pacu, then reloaded so I could get something useful. Am I missing something or is there no way to move them to a fish drop-off when they're flopping around on the ground? The only way I could see was to make a pool somewhere in flopping range (which wasn't happening with my base layout) then building fish traps with my plentiful supplies of plastic.)
You want a hole next to your portal for the fish to drop into. Some people just do a 1 tile dip, since that works fine and holds an indefinite number of fish. Mine is slightly more elaborate but less efficient since it looks better imo.
It is a surprisingly powerful setup. You get 1 fillet per fish every 25 cycles, and some egg shells. I've taken the 8 fish drop whenever it presented itself, and it is providing a massive surplus of food for my 16 dupes to the point that I am sad I can't really dabble with the other food production setups.
But it is also effort free, and I am short on effort since I have 101 things to do not including going to space! so my semi-exploity fish farm stays.
As does my semi-exploity feeling food storage.
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You always want to build fire poles to the oil biome as companion to your ladders. That will get dupes down to the bottom quickly.
Once everything it built, a dupe usually only needs to go there every 3 cycles or so to relieve pressure from the oil well (when you run out of free-floating oil) or to mine out more lead/fossil, and you can build the oil refinery somewhere more accessible. Just make sure both are in enclosed spaces that also have a nearby gas pump for the natural gas byproduct both make, as you can get a decent amount of power from both.
Without more details, I'm just going to throw out a bunch of random things that could cause problems.
1.) you only want about 1000-1500kg of water in the steam chamber, otherwise there's too much mass for the tuner to boil effectively, which can lead to it overheating if it's running all the time. Easy fix if this is your problem; worm the exhaust pipe for the turbine from out behind it and add a liquid shutoff, set to stay open as long as the pool you're dumping the extra water is below what the extra water you need to get rid of is, and use any automation sensors to regulate the aquatuner's temp until the turbine kicks on.
2.) usually also good idea to get rid of any air in the steam chamber, or at least any hydrogen, Polluted oxygen or natural gas, or otherwise it might get in the way of the turbine intakes (any other gas is heavier than steam, so it won't get it the way, though too much of it might impair heating the steam after the water has been boiled.) You could build a gas pump that you leave in there (usually can deconstruct it through a corner so you don't have a permanent "building broken" notice, though whatever materials it was made of will be stuck in there unless you're *really* clever) or fill the bottom 2/3rds with crude oil (having almost 4x the conductivity of water, and a much lower capacity, it shouldn't impede heating the water too much.) Easy fix; you can extend the size of the steam chamber without breaching it by build a tile adjacent to the side and then deconstructing the tile you built in next to from corner (gases don't move diagonally, so you won't breach the chamber) you can do this to create a little "bubble" next to the turbine for lighter gases to get pushed into, and a small pit (probably filled with airflow tiles to make sure water doesn't get stuck down there) if heavier gases are consistently covering one or more tiles of the tuner.
3.) If it's made out of gold amalgam (anything less than that will fry before the steam is hot enough for the turbine), you'll also need a temp sensor for the chamber, as on top of the one for the liquid being piped, and use it to manage the initial heat buildup, because gold amalgam's tiny as fuck thermal capacity means it will shoot up in temp at an ungodly rate and *will* fry itself before the water gets even close boiling if left unattended (especially if it's not sitting in crude with it's higher conductivity). It's so annoying, I'd actually recommend never building it out of anything less than Steel; Might still want a temp sensor just to be safe, but then at least you can set it to 220C (Turbines reach their max output at 200C, so no need to let it go much higher) and never have to think about it again. Easy Fix: There really isn't one. you *could* use the trick above to move a side wall closer to the tuner to deconstruct from the top corner (will probably need some ladders for dupes to get the right angle) but if the water hasn't boiled yet, and sometimes even if it has, it would frankly be easier to just breach the chamber and either use yellow alert to make the adjustments as quickly as possible or start from square 1.)
3a.) bypass for when the tuner is shut off to keep the coolant circulating should take no more than 1 tile of pipe to reach a liquid bridge, and the output pipe should only have to be 2 tiles from the tuner to connect with to the endpoint of said liquid bridge, otherwise liquid will get stuck in the bypass, which can lead to anything from slowing and sometimes even stopping the cooling loop to pipes breaking from the stuck liquid getting too hot.
4.) For the loop itself, you usually want polluted water, same thermal capacity as regular water with a larger temp range. 99% of the time, radiant pipes behind or within a tile of what you want you cool is enough; avoid lead, use copper or gold before you'd consider iron, and iron before steel. But if you have aluminum on your map, use that, it's thermal conductivity is simply bonkers. Easy fixes: to change out the liquid, you can put a bridge leading out of the loop, and once it's empty, deconstruct that and build a new bridge to bring the new liquid in, and pipes can be replaced by a different type of pipe by building over them without having to empty them first.
One final project before i decided to end things was an upgraded kitchen design. It features vacum based food storage solutions (Ensuring food is both , clever automation to handle providing food to be cooked, and since my bases are prone to copiously overproducing on food? It also has a waste disposal system so all that excess food can be flushed and turned into tasty tasty polluted dirt. (and therefore used for clay production or whatever else i want polluted dirt/polluted oxygen for)
A big step up over my previous base. I'm thinking that for my next run i'm going to lets play it here - do updates on how the base is devleoping and goals, and what dupes i've been yelling at. On that note, who wants dupes named after them? The starting dupes are going to be two molehanded abominators of digging, and a scientist.
The next map is going to be Rime - Volcanos, Metal Rich, Geoactive and Geodes. So on the one hand: Lots of resources to play with. On the other hand: Extremes of temp in both directions, with serious hot patches i'll have to carefully work, and lots of hard to dig through stuff. I'm also finally going to do a survival run, so this should be good.
@Klemming
I'll also try and post a pic later of the simple little oil well module i've designed, that captures the gas and oil without wasting anything.
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