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Holy crap, there's a new Dawn of War Expansion (WH40K)

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Posts

  • AkiraAkira Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Tau turrets would be fun. I know Broadsides are supposed to substitute but taking cap and being tier 2 makes them a pretty awful alternative.

    Akira on
    akira.gif
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    You've kind of got it backwards with Chaos being 'evil daemons who go find you and turn you to the dark side', particularly when you realize they're the manifestations of human and alien desires and emotions. They're not 'evil', they're forces of chaos that run contrary to order, and they act the way they do simply because we've defined them that way.

    Imagine the Warp being the opposite of the material universe, in the sense that while our side of reality's energy has condensed into stars and planets and given to the rise of animals and people, the immaterial realm is all the thoughts and intangible elements forming conscious beings of pure will and abstract thought. Except the Warp receives a constant influx of immaterial energy while the physical realm dissipates and scatters over time & space.

    Hence how the Eldar created Slaanesh simply by perpetuating excess and decadence.

    It's not a good vs evil setting at all. In fact, the only 'good' faction around turns out to be the:
    Orks. They're the only ones who get it.

    That's what I like about it; if nothing else it's something to trade off to when I'm bored of all the triumphant high fantasy hubbub.

    Very interesting. I do like how there isn't one truly good race, the Tau seem to be the closest. Even then they have the whole class system where the Ethereals are, apparently,
    controlling minds to some extent.
    I imagine there is some twist deeper in the story that makes them out to be "evil." Personally I hope the "Greater Good" actually is something traditionally considered good but
    controlling minds to get there makes it seem bad. Free will, and all that.
    I like the fact that they are the one race in all of 40k that isn't overtly hostile.

    The last story I read mentioned something about the Warp being made from emotions but it was just a little blurb without an explanation.
    I've never been interested in fantasy, even Star Wars has too much fantasy and not enough sci-fi for me, but somehow 40k seems to blend it all in a way that I love. I'm getting rather sucked in by it. I am even thinking about going to paint night tomorrow at my local table top store. Figured I could buy a couple of small Tau and Chaos figures to try painting and see if there are any people there who don't make me want to cut off my own ears. Even if I never end up playing the table top I would like to have a couple Firewarriors and Khorne Beserkers on my computer desk.

    Accualt on
  • Milquetoast ThugMilquetoast Thug Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Goomba wrote: »
    Also IG get some neat upgrades. "guard_multi_laser_sentinel" and "guard_autocannon_sentinel". I don't know what those could reference to, though.

    Marines have a "blessing of the omnissiah" spell.

    Chaos have a "blood rage" (Or rage. I think one of those are new. DoA would know.) and "biotoxin".

    Eldar get a "soulstone" thing.

    If IG gets the weapon upgrades for their vehicles that every fucking mod has been putting on their vehicles for the last two years or so, then I am fucking sold on this game. Demolisher tanks just seal the deal.

    Milquetoast Thug on
  • Milquetoast ThugMilquetoast Thug Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    A_ccualt wrote: »
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    You've kind of got it backwards with Chaos being 'evil daemons who go find you and turn you to the dark side', particularly when you realize they're the manifestations of human and alien desires and emotions. They're not 'evil', they're forces of chaos that run contrary to order, and they act the way they do simply because we've defined them that way.

    Imagine the Warp being the opposite of the material universe, in the sense that while our side of reality's energy has condensed into stars and planets and given to the rise of animals and people, the immaterial realm is all the thoughts and intangible elements forming conscious beings of pure will and abstract thought. Except the Warp receives a constant influx of immaterial energy while the physical realm dissipates and scatters over time & space.

    Hence how the Eldar created Slaanesh simply by perpetuating excess and decadence.

    It's not a good vs evil setting at all. In fact, the only 'good' faction around turns out to be the:
    Orks. They're the only ones who get it.

    That's what I like about it; if nothing else it's something to trade off to when I'm bored of all the triumphant high fantasy hubbub.

    Very interesting. I do like how there isn't one truly good race, the Tau seem to be the closest. Even then they have the whole class system where the Ethereals are, apparently,
    controlling minds to some extent.
    I imagine there is some twist deeper in the story that makes them out to be "evil." Personally I hope the "Greater Good" actually is something traditionally considered good but
    controlling minds to get there makes it seem bad. Free will, and all that.
    I like the fact that they are the one race in all of 40k that isn't overtly hostile.

    The last story I read mentioned something about the Warp being made from emotions but it was just a little blurb without an explanation.
    I've never been interested in fantasy, even Star Wars has too much fantasy and not enough sci-fi for me, but somehow 40k seems to blend it all in a way that I love. I'm getting rather sucked in by it. I am even thinking about going to paint night tomorrow at my local table top store. Figured I could buy a couple of small Tau and Chaos figures to try painting and see if there are any people there who don't make me want to cut off my own ears. Even if I never end up playing the table top I would like to have a couple Firewarriors and Khorne Beserkers on my computer desk.

    And while we're on the topic, I would just like to say that I think the Necrotyr and the Tau are the same species with different names.

    Milquetoast Thug on
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    That would be pretty hot. But Tau don't show up in the warp and the Necrontyr... did? Maybe? I dunno.

    august on
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    And while we're on the topic, I would just like to say that I think the Necrotyr and the Tau are the same species with different names.
    Necrontyr is like the oldest race, now. They got pissed that they only lived for two years versus those faggot Old Ones that got to not be depressed and live longer than a week. Then they got duped by the new necron unit.

    I thought Tau were just new, naive, fascists with big guns.

    Goomba on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Goomba wrote: »
    And while we're on the topic, I would just like to say that I think the Necrotyr and the Tau are the same species with different names.
    Necrontyr is like the oldest race, now. They got pissed that they only lived for two years versus those faggot Old Ones that got to not be depressed and live longer than a week. Then they got duped by the new necron unit.

    I thought Tau were just new, naive, fascists with big guns.

    Plot twist?

    Might explain why that one dude went rouge?

    And stuff?

    august on
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    august wrote: »
    Goomba wrote: »
    And while we're on the topic, I would just like to say that I think the Necrotyr and the Tau are the same species with different names.
    Necrontyr is like the oldest race, now. They got pissed that they only lived for two years versus those faggot Old Ones that got to not be depressed and live longer than a week. Then they got duped by the new necron unit.

    I thought Tau were just new, naive, fascists with big guns.

    Plot twist?

    Might explain why that one dude went rouge?

    And stuff?
    You mean Farsight? I'm pretty sure that he's crazy because he stumbled upon good ol' Anaris.

    Or just a really racist prick.

    Goomba on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    A_ccualt wrote: »
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    You've kind of got it backwards with Chaos being 'evil daemons who go find you and turn you to the dark side', particularly when you realize they're the manifestations of human and alien desires and emotions. They're not 'evil', they're forces of chaos that run contrary to order, and they act the way they do simply because we've defined them that way.

    Imagine the Warp being the opposite of the material universe, in the sense that while our side of reality's energy has condensed into stars and planets and given to the rise of animals and people, the immaterial realm is all the thoughts and intangible elements forming conscious beings of pure will and abstract thought. Except the Warp receives a constant influx of immaterial energy while the physical realm dissipates and scatters over time & space.

    Hence how the Eldar created Slaanesh simply by perpetuating excess and decadence.

    It's not a good vs evil setting at all. In fact, the only 'good' faction around turns out to be the:
    Orks. They're the only ones who get it.

    That's what I like about it; if nothing else it's something to trade off to when I'm bored of all the triumphant high fantasy hubbub.

    Very interesting. I do like how there isn't one truly good race, the Tau seem to be the closest. Even then they have the whole class system where the Ethereals are, apparently,
    controlling minds to some extent.
    I imagine there is some twist deeper in the story that makes them out to be "evil." Personally I hope the "Greater Good" actually is something traditionally considered good but
    controlling minds to get there makes it seem bad. Free will, and all that.
    I like the fact that they are the one race in all of 40k that isn't overtly hostile.

    The last story I read mentioned something about the Warp being made from emotions but it was just a little blurb without an explanation.
    I've never been interested in fantasy, even Star Wars has too much fantasy and not enough sci-fi for me, but somehow 40k seems to blend it all in a way that I love. I'm getting rather sucked in by it. I am even thinking about going to paint night tomorrow at my local table top store. Figured I could buy a couple of small Tau and Chaos figures to try painting and see if there are any people there who don't make me want to cut off my own ears. Even if I never end up playing the table top I would like to have a couple Firewarriors and Khorne Beserkers on my computer desk.

    If the mythos really interests you, you should try and find a copy of the Warhammer 40k fluff bible that's floating around on the internet. I don't remember where I found it, but I recently finished reading it (it's like 230 something pages) but it was very, very interesting (even if most of it was fan-written).

    Darmak on
    JtgVX0H.png
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    august wrote: »
    Goomba wrote: »
    And while we're on the topic, I would just like to say that I think the Necrotyr and the Tau are the same species with different names.
    Necrontyr is like the oldest race, now. They got pissed that they only lived for two years versus those faggot Old Ones that got to not be depressed and live longer than a week. Then they got duped by the new necron unit.

    I thought Tau were just new, naive, fascists with big guns.

    Plot twist?

    Might explain why that one dude went rouge?

    And stuff?
    I have to admit I'm a bit curious about the origins of the Ethereals and what exactly their power is over the other Tau caste. They're a bit too mellow to be some manifestation of Chaos, but it's possible that the C'Tan or the Eldar are responsible for them. For what reason, who can say?

    Golden Yak on
    H9f4bVe.png
  • VytaeVytae Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    If IG gets the weapon upgrades for their vehicles that every fucking mod has been putting on their vehicles for the last two years or so, then I am fucking sold on this game. Demolisher tanks just seal the deal.

    Actually,the weapon upgrades Have been in the game since fucking WA,but they were never implemented because it was a rushed release. The mods have basicly been just flipping False to trues,and 0s to 1s to access them.

    And with the exception of Dark eldar and Chaos no race is *truely* evil in the 40k,simply savage. It IS the dark ages after all. The tau are basicly commies that are actually COMMIES (not that bullshit facist some of us are more equal then other commies we always get). Go wiki noosphere.

    A Brief Rundown of the Warhammer timeline.

    Necrontyr regular type demi-god race,catch is they only live for 2 years before dieing. Obviously this makes them pissy. Old Ones, Other regular Demi-god type race with slightly higher technology but live for a very long time.

    Necrontyr go fuck you guys,misery loves company . Old ones go Nuh uh,genocide not yours,cant have. Necrontyr discover star gods (C'Tan),star gods say we will like,totally make you immortal just seperate your souls and put them in these shiny killing machines. Necrontyr go okay! and essentially have their souls stolen. Necrons (as their now called) proceed to shit all over old ones feeding their souls to the star gods. Old ones go well fuck we need more troops! And create Eldar and Orks. Necrontyr finish eating old ones and get indigestion,take a nap for a few billion years.

    Orks commence fighting eachother. Necrons wake up,and proceed to eat more souls but eldar say ' Down bitch" and have their god Khaine bitchslap the C'Tan (but is greivously and PERMANTLY wounded in the proccess) and own the necrons. Causing them to sleep again. Eldar then have million year orgy which culminates in the eldar race imploding,creating the chaos god Slaanesh as well as the stellar constellation known as the eye of terror and generally fucking themselves over. Orks fighting each other still,as well as anyone that happens by. Fast forward a few million years.

    Man stand upright and starts making the Imperium,as man advances,so does chaos (its been around,but humans with their massive psychic abilities,but not much control feeding it. Not to mention Its been getting bigger since Eldar gimped themselves). Orks,Eldar,Chaos and humans start happily butchering other endlessly. Tau go lol this tribe stuff sucks,lets go from spear chucking yahoos into a super advanced noosphere minded commie race in the space of a few millenia and have some fun with them. Tyranids randomly fuck with people.

    Necron alarm clock goes off. Everyone goes " fuck fuck,shit fuck " and starts to sing lullabies and wonder who the fuck is gonna stop the this time.

    And here we are!

    Vytae on
  • zerg rushzerg rush Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Vytae wrote: »
    A Brief Rundown of the Warhammer timeline.

    Necrontyr regular type race, catch is they live short and painful lives. They are also assholes. Old Ones, Demi-god type race with massively higher technology and live for a very long time.

    Necrontyr try to fight Old ones, but get smacked down. Necrontyr discover star gods (C'Tan), star gods say we will like, "totally make you immortal just seperate your souls and put them in these shiny killing machines." Necrontyr go, "okay!" and essentially have their souls stolen. Necrons (as their now called) proceed to shit all over old ones feeding their souls to the star gods. Old ones go well fuck we need more troops! And create Eldar and Orks. Orks commence WUAAAAAAAGGGGH and smack down some Necrons. Eldar say ' Down bitch" and have their god Khaine bitchslap the C'Tan (but is greivously and PERMANTLY wounded in the proccess) and own the necrons. Then all of a sudden "The Enslavers" come out of the warp and annihilate almost all life in the universe. Necrons take a nap for a few billion years.


    Orks lose their intelligence, and fight everyone and themselves as well. Eldar then have million year orgy which culminates in the eldar race imploding,creating the chaos god Slaanesh as well as the stellar constellation known as the Eye of Terror and generally fucking themselves over. This occurs in the year 20,000 AD.

    Man had been getting bitchslapped around by all the pissy, minor alien races and is completely fractured. The Emperor is born and reunites all of humanity under one banner, then gets hurt and needs to sleep it off for a bit. Orks, Eldar, Chaos and Humans start happily butchering other endlessly. Etherials go to Tau and form them into a government, within 6000 years they are able to almost go toe-to-toe with the big boys. Tyranids randomly wipe out solar systems. Necrons are awakened by the life that has returned to the galaxy. Everyone goes "meh."


    Afterall, what's a couple of angry T-1000s compared to ever evolving bugs that come from the darkness and consume whole worlds. Also, Necrons are terrified of chaos for some reason.

    Your lies, let me fix them.

    zerg rush on
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Orks used to be intelligent?

    Also, robot zombies (necrons) are awesome, just like the biomass of rape that is the tyranid fleets.

    Zzulu on
    t5qfc9.jpg
  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Its mentioned in some short story fluff that one of the C'tan has "children on the edge of the universe". Tau have no presence in the warp. Phariahs are humans who have a gene which means that they too, have no presence in the warp. The answer here is kinda obvious.

    Also this "Tau must be good guys" is why alot of veterans didn't agree with their addition. But what you have to remember is that is the greater good at the expensive of anything. If you complete the Tau campaign on DC they
    Kill alot of the human populace and steralise the rest because the're too disruptive to society.

    Norgoth on
  • Track NineTrack Nine Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    zerg rush wrote: »
    Vytae wrote: »
    A Brief Rundown of the Warhammer timeline.

    Necrontyr regular type race, catch is they live short and painful lives. They are also assholes. Old Ones, Demi-god type race with massively higher technology and live for a very long time.

    Necrontyr try to fight Old ones, but get smacked down. Necrontyr discover star gods (C'Tan), star gods say we will like, "totally make you immortal just seperate your souls and put them in these shiny killing machines." Necrontyr go, "okay!" and essentially have their souls stolen. Necrons (as their now called) proceed to shit all over old ones feeding their souls to the star gods. Old ones go well fuck we need more troops! And create Eldar and Orks. Orks commence WUAAAAAAAGGGGH and smack down some Necrons. Eldar say ' Down bitch" and have their god Khaine bitchslap the C'Tan (but is greivously and PERMANTLY wounded in the proccess) and own the necrons. Then all of a sudden "The Enslavers" come out of the warp and annihilate almost all life in the universe. Necrons take a nap for a few billion years.


    Orks lose their intelligence, and fight everyone and themselves as well. Eldar then have million year orgy which culminates in the eldar race imploding,creating the chaos god Slaanesh as well as the stellar constellation known as the Eye of Terror and generally fucking themselves over. This occurs in the year 20,000 AD.

    Man had been getting bitchslapped around by all the pissy, minor alien races and is completely fractured. The Emperor is born and reunites all of humanity under one banner, then gets hurt and needs to sleep it off for a bit. Orks, Eldar, Chaos and Humans start happily butchering other endlessly. Etherials go to Tau and form them into a government, within 6000 years they are able to almost go toe-to-toe with the big boys. Tyranids randomly wipe out solar systems. Necrons are awakened by the life that has returned to the galaxy. Everyone goes "meh."


    Afterall, what's a couple of angry T-1000s compared to ever evolving bugs that come from the darkness and consume whole worlds. Also, Necrons are terrified of chaos for some reason.

    Bravo, guys, bravo. Nicely summerized.

    Damn I love Orks and Eldar though - I just wish this game had done Harlequins right and given orks Runtherdz..

    Track Nine on
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    You forgot where Khaine killed the greatest Farseer to ever live, some other Eldar gods, then because he was such a dick and didn't have the 100s blade of Vaul, got that mortal wound from the Nightbringer. Then Khorne was all "You my bitch now" and Khaine decided to split up and live on through Eldar that took his form. Also the Laughing God is the most clever God and the Deceiver can't hold a candle to him.

    Also the C'Tan were eating the souls of the necrontyr which is why they only lived a few years.

    Also Horus got jealous that the Emperor of man had more than one clone offsrping and decided to bring the whole system down. Chaos are dicks like that.


    But hey the SoB icons look pretty neat. Multimelta guns/turrets sound awesome.

    Goomba on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Bros before Does Rollin' in the thlayRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    If by 'decided to split up' you mean 'killed and fragmented during Slaanesh's devouring of the Eldar Gods (c. 30,000 AD)', then yeah he followed that decision pretty thoroughly.

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    You've kind of got it backwards with Chaos being 'evil daemons who go find you and turn you to the dark side', particularly when you realize they're the manifestations of human and alien desires and emotions. They're not 'evil', they're forces of chaos that run contrary to order, and they act the way they do simply because we've defined them that way.

    Then how come there's no pure pleasure chaos god, or a chaos god of rampant creation without destruction?
    Vytae wrote: »
    Afterall, what's a couple of angry T-1000s compared to ever evolving bugs that come from the darkness and consume whole worlds. Also, Necrons are terrified of chaos for some reason.

    Well, maybe they ought to scare the Imperium after easily bypassing so many of their defenses and reaching Mars.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • Track NineTrack Nine Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    If by 'decided to split up' you mean 'killed and fragmented during Slaanesh's devouring of the Eldar Gods (c. 30,000 AD)', then yeah he followed that decision pretty thoroughly.

    Not quite.. Slaanesh couldn't kill him, so it broke him up and the fragments scattered across the universe. Khaine really was a tough bastard to kill.

    And, yes, Goomba wins - The Deciever can't hold a candle to the laughing god and is really just a pale imitation. For comparisons sake, the laughing god would be like the the lovechild of the Joker and Houdini, while the Deciever would be 40k's Ronald McDonald.

    Track Nine on
  • Track NineTrack Nine Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    Then how come there's no pure pleasure chaos god, or a chaos god of rampant creation without destruction?

    Slaanesh

    Creation is not chaotic, or at least is not considered a negative aspect unto itself.

    Track Nine on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Track Nine wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Then how come there's no pure pleasure chaos god, or a chaos god of rampant creation without destruction?

    Slaanesh

    Creation is not chaotic, or at least is not considered a negative aspect unto itself.

    I thought Slaanesh was basically pain and pleasure but mostly pain. And we generally consider that getting pleasure through inflicting pain to be an evil thing.

    Rampant, uncontrolled creation definitely is chaotic. I think my best example here would be from the White Wolf's Werewolf RPG, where you had the triad. The Weaver was a force of order, creating patterns in everything, the Wyrm was a force of destruction and corruption, and the Wyld was a force of unbound creation.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Slaanesh is rampant overindulgence of pleasure. It became pain because all other means were dull to it. Something like that.

    Zen Vulgarity on
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    Track Nine wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Then how come there's no pure pleasure chaos god, or a chaos god of rampant creation without destruction?

    Slaanesh

    Creation is not chaotic, or at least is not considered a negative aspect unto itself.

    I thought Slaanesh was basically pain and pleasure but mostly pain. And we generally consider that getting pleasure through inflicting pain to be an evil thing.

    Rampant, uncontrolled creation definitely is chaotic. I think my best example here would be from the White Wolf's Werewolf RPG, where you had the triad. The Weaver was a force of order, creating patterns in everything, the Wyrm was a force of destruction and corruption, and the Wyld was a force of unbound creation.
    The basic facts are that Chaos is chaotic. They aren't any more evil than Necrons or Tau or Space Marines or Witchhunters or Daemonhunters or Imperial Guardsmen or Dark Eldar. Just different.

    I mean, you can go ahead and say that all of those people I listed are evil, but Chaos isn't the most evil force in the universe. Not even close.

    Oh, and Slaanesh basically did kill every Eldar god except Khaine and The Laughing God. Khaine got his shit served by Khorne, though.

    Goomba on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    My point wasn't necessarily that chaos is the most evil, just that it is evil. Again, I say that killing and inflicting pain for pleasure is more evil than cold destruction in a war for survival and expansion. And what about Nurgle? Does he create and spread despair and disease? Doing those for their own end, I would say is more evil than a war for survival and expansion. But if Chaos was simply chaos, there would be other aspects, why isn't there a love god or creation god?

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • Tom AtoTom Ato Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    My point wasn't necessarily that chaos is the most evil, just that it is evil. Again, I say that killing and inflicting pain for pleasure is more evil than cold destruction in a war for survival and expansion. And what about Nurgle? Does he create and spread despair and disease? Doing those for their own end, I would say is more evil than a war for survival and expansion. But if Chaos was simply chaos, there would be other aspects, why isn't there a love god or creation god?

    Well, actually, the Chaos Gods do those things in order to survive and expand. The actions and beliefs of their followers or things that resonate with them make them stronger. So, for example, when Bezerkers kill their enemies and take their skulls, they do it so that Khorne will become more powerful. Same with servants of Slaanesh who experience both pleasure and pain. The Chaos Gods are the most powerful of the Warp spawned creatures, however they have to work to make sure it stays that way.

    Tom Ato on
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Because it's over-the-top Gothic space fantasy.

    august on
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    My point wasn't necessarily that chaos is the most evil, just that it is evil. Again, I say that killing and inflicting pain for pleasure is more evil than cold destruction in a war for survival and expansion. And what about Nurgle? Does he create and spread despair and disease? Doing those for their own end, I would say is more evil than a war for survival and expansion. But if Chaos was simply chaos, there would be other aspects, why isn't there a love god or creation god?
    Chaos is the opposite of Order. Order, in this case, refers to Humans, Eldar, and their ilk. Chaos isn't literally "chaos", just the opposite of Order, which isn't literally "order".

    Also, if you think that Humans just fight for survival maybe you should read up on them more. They exterminate whole planets just in case there was a slight hint of Chaos on it. People find old ruins of Xenos? That's an extermination. Fighting against Chaos troops? Dead. Chaos just goes out and kills people that they hate, maybe with some rituals for their gods thrown in. I dunno, that seems better in my eyes.

    Goomba on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Bros before Does Rollin' in the thlayRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    Then how come there's no pure pleasure chaos god, or a chaos god of rampant creation without destruction?

    There very well could be, as a lesser aspect of Slaanesh itself. The four greater powers are gestalt conciousnesses containing lesser powers and greater daemons. Khaine was a concious god within Khorne, for example.

    Part of it is also the sheer size and extremity of the gods' powers and spheres of influence. Slaanesh's definition of 'pleasure' is of sensation taken to the extreme, the difference between it and pain being irrelevant. So to take note from Hellraiser, blasting out your eardrums and being flayed alive is simply a full-body sensation superior to mortals' pussyfooting idea of it.

    Anyway, the gods have much broader domains than they're usually summarized (although Slaanesh usually gets the most thorough coverage through the history of the fall of the eldar), so there's plenty of aspects not covered often, like Tzeentch being the Chaos god of hope and beasts of Nurgle adoring their victims to death.

    Also, Chaos /= evil, good /= order. I don't know why this keeps being suggested. They're not evil beings, they're the culmination of desires of physical beings. They just invaribly reflect the strong and disorderly ones.

    EDIT: Technically, Nurgle is the god of love, Tzeentch of creation.

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    Because spikes and demons are bad.

    I mean it's not like Order uses daemons and chaos inspired troops or anything.

    Goomba on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Track NineTrack Nine Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Goomba wrote: »
    Because spikes and demons are bad.

    I mean it's not like Order uses daemons and chaos inspired troops or anything.

    No, it uses witch hunters, inquisitions and ethnic cleansing. All of which come with their own individual spikes and stabbys.

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  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    And pyskers and, hell, half of the witch/daemon hunters are touched by chaos in some way.

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  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Bros before Does Rollin' in the thlayRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Goomba wrote: »
    Because spikes and demons are bad.

    I mean it's not like Order uses daemons and chaos inspired troops or anything.

    Unless you count Acts of Faith and living saints.

    It's not like the Warp is selective on what forms in there just because trillions of people are all worshipping a persona and ideal they consider 'good'.

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  • Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    That one everliving Sister of Battle chick scares the shit out of me.

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  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    So

    Is the emperor alive in his zombie state? Or did he move on to godhood? In Warhammer fantasy, the people who worship sigmar get obvious rewards for their faith, indicating that sigmar ascended.

    Is it like that in 40K as well? Or is he just a zombie?

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  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Also, yes, the humans in 40K are just as disturbing (and if you choose to accept the concept of evil), evil as any other race.

    I mean, just look at the inquisition. Jesus christ

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  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Bros before Does Rollin' in the thlayRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    It's basically the same in 40k; the Warp is the same in both settings (or it's the same setting, one featuring a single isolated world, if you go by some older books) with the same function of Chaos and the same basic gods.

    The Emperor's immaterial godly nature is further entriguing when you realize how his birth was comparable to that of Daemon princes.

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  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    For emphasis, I think these pictures show off just how far from "humanity" the empire forces constantly stray. They have about as much regard for life as chaos do, and they are equally fanatical;

    NSFW -
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    They're just a big slobbering mess of soulless people who will destroy everything in their way if it is marked as even the slightest inconvenience to them.

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  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    Rampant, uncontrolled creation definitely is chaotic. I think my best example here would be from the White Wolf's Werewolf RPG, where you had the triad. The Weaver was a force of order, creating patterns in everything, the Wyrm was a force of destruction and corruption, and the Wyld was a force of unbound creation.
    That would be Tzeentch, then, with change and creation being more or less synonymous. Nurgle is decay, and Tzeentch is meant to be his opposite.

    So has there been any preview of what the single player campaign is going to be like in the new expansion? Is it going to be an improvement on the Dark Crusade system (for crying out loud make it moddable), or is it going to be more like the vanilla and Winter Assault linear campaigns?

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  • Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    They're just a big slobbering mess of soulless people who will destroy everything in their way if it is marked as even the slightest inconvenience to them.
    I don't think it's fair to judge humanity by its military. Unlike most of the other 40k races, humans actually have some average Joes. I mean, sure, they're all flavours of Joe Ignorant Xenophobic Religious Fanatic, but you can't exactly blame them for that.

    Grid System on
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    The Emperor is basically a vegetable. The irony being that if they would let him die, he would be reborn and humanity would be a-okay.

    Also, the SS campaign looks like the DC campaign but with improvements.

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