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[Impeachment] Intel Cmte Report Released (OP-2) | Judiciary Hearings Begin (2019/12/04)

monikermoniker Registered User regular
edited December 4 in Debate and/or Discourse
a55cku7ldezh.jpg



The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

—Article I, Section II, Clause V
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

—Article I, Section III, Clauses VI and VII



And so it begins



Transcript:
Good afternoon. Last Tuesday, we observed the anniversary of the adoption of the Constitution on September 17.

Sadly, on that day, the Intelligence Community Inspector General formally notified the Congress that the Administration was forbidding him from turning over a whistleblower complaint. On Constitution Day. This is a violation of law.

Shortly thereafter, press reports began to break of a phone call by the President of the United States calling upon a foreign power to intervene in his election. This is a breach of his constitutional responsibilities.

The facts are these: the Intelligence Community Inspector General, who was appointed by President Trump, determined that the complaint is both of ‘urgent concern and credible,’ and its disclosure, he went on to say, that it ‘relates to one of the most significant and important of the Director of National Intelligence’s responsibilities to the American people.’

On Thursday, the Inspector General testified before the House Intelligence Committee, stating that the Acting Director of National Intelligence blocked him from disclosing the whistleblower complaint. This is a violation of the law.

The law is unequivocal. The DNI, it says, the Director of National Intelligence ‘shall’ provide Congress the full whistleblower complaint.

For more than 25 years, I have served on the Intelligence Committee – as a Member, as the Ranking Member, as part of the Gang of 4 even before I was in the Leadership.

I was there when we created the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. That did not exist before 2004.

I was there ever earlier in 90’s when we wrote the whistleblower laws and continue to write them, to improve them to ensure the security of our intelligence and the safety of our whistleblowers.

I know what their purpose was, and we proceeded with balance and caution as we wrote the laws. I can say with authority, that the Trump Administration’s actions undermine both: our national security and our intelligence and our protections of whistleblowers – more than both.

This Thursday, the Acting DNI will appear before the House Intelligence Committee.

At that time, he must turn over the whistleblower’s full complaint to the Committee. He will have to choose whether to break the law or honor his responsibility to the Constitution.

On the final day of the Constitutional Convention in 1787, when our Constitution was adopted, Americans gathered on the steps of Independence Hall to await the news of the government our Founders had crafted.

They asked Benjamin Franklin, ‘What do we have: a republic or a monarchy?’ Franklin replied: ‘A republic, if you can keep it.’

Our responsibility is to keep it.

Our republic endures because of the wisdom of our Constitution, enshrined in three co-equal branches of government, serving as checks and balances on each other.

The actions taken to date by the President have seriously violated the Constitution – especially when the President says, ‘Article II says, I can do whatever I want.’

For the past several months, we have been investigating in our Committees and litigating in the courts, so the House can gather ‘all the relevant facts and consider whether to exercise its full Article I powers, including a constitutional power of the utmost gravity — approval of articles of impeachment.’

And this week, the President has admitted to asking the President of Ukraine to take actions which would benefit him politically. The action of – the actions of the Trump Presidency revealed the dishonorable fact of the President’s betrayal of his oath of office, betrayal of our national security, and betrayal of the integrity of our elections.

Therefore, today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry. I am directing our six Committees to proceed with their investigations under that umbrella of impeachment inquiry.

The President must be held accountable. No one is above the law.

Getting back to our Founders – in the darkest days of the American Revolution, Thomas Paine wrote: ‘The times have found us.’ The times found them to fight for and establish our democracy. The times have found us today, not to place ourselves in the same category of greatness as our Founders, but to place us in the urgency of protecting and defending our Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. In the words of Ben Franklin, to keep our Republic.

I thank our Chairmen – Chairman Nadler, Chairman Schiff. Chairman Nadler of Judiciary. Chairman Schiff of Intelligence. Chairman Engel of Foreign Affairs. Chairman Cummings of Oversight and Chairman Cummings I have been in touch with constantly. He is a master of so much but including, Inspectors General and whistleblowers. Congressman Richie Neal of the Ways and Means Committee. Congresswomen Maxine Waters of the Financial Services Committee.

And I commend all of our Members, our colleagues for their thoughtful, thoughtful approach to all of this – for their careful statements.

God bless them and God Bless America. Thank you all

Source: https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/92419-0

Full Video:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?464684-1/speaker-pelosi-announces-formal-impeachment-inquiry-president-trump


Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III

Report on the Investigation into Russian Interference in the 2016 Presidential Election
[PDF]


Washington Post

Full Timeline of the President's interactions with Ukraine


House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
Whistleblower Report

Fact Sheet released by Speaker Pelosi (D CA-12)

https://www.speaker.gov/sites/speaker.house.gov/files/Trump Shakedown and Coverup.pdf



Surfpossum wrote: »
I just spent far too much time writing up a facebook post to try and provide a sort of high-level, citation-filled rundown of The Ukraine Call since I haven't seen anything laying it out in a simple manner so I figured I'd post it here, too.
The Misuse of Presidential Power to Solicit Foreign Interference in Our Election

“In the course of my official duties, I have received information from multiple U.S. Government officials that the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election. This interference includes, among other things, pressuring a foreign country to investigate one of the President's main domestic political rivals.” 1


The money: the US was planning to send several hundred million dollars to Ukraine to help them purchase military hardware.

This aid package (announced in June of 2019) was contingent on Ukraine’s efforts to combat corruption, and the Pentagon sent a letter to Congress in which they "certified that the Government of Ukraine has taken substantial actions to make defense institutional reforms for the purposes of decreasing corruption [and] increasing accountability." 2


The setup: in June, the White House suddenly blocked the aid package without explanation.

In July, “Administration officials were instructed to tell lawmakers that the delays were part of an “interagency process” but to give them no additional information — a pattern that continued for nearly two months, until the White House released the funds on the night of Sept. 11.” 3


The shakedown: this was followed by a phone call in July between Trump and the Ukrainian President in which the Ukrainian President brought up wanting to purchase military hardware and Trump’s response was to ask for some “favors.”

From the official “reconstructed transcript” created from notes on the phone call, we can see that Trump’s response to the Ukrainian President’s comment about the financial aid they are expecting to receive is to request some investigations:

“President Zelenskyy: We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.
The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it.
[here the Ukrainian President, Zelenskyy, assures Trump that they are “great friends” and that “all the investigations will be done openly and candidly”]
The President: The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.” 4


The crime: the use of the US government’s money to pressure a foreign government into manufacturing an investigation to hurt a political rival in the upcoming election is an abuse of power.

Even setting aside the use of the US government’s resources to extort assistance, “It is illegal for any person to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election.” 5


The cover-up: realizing the seriousness of what just happened, the White House attempted to hide the transcript of the phone call on a server used for classified national security info.

“White House lawyers directed White House officials to remove the electronic transcript of the Zelensky call from the computer system where such transcripts normally are stored. That transcript then was loaded into a “separate electronic system” that is otherwise used to store and handle classified information of an especially sensitive nature. “One White House official described this act as an abuse of this electronic system because the call did not contain anything remotely sensitive from a national security perspective.”” 6

The whistleblower elaborates on what that server is usually for: “According to multiple White House officials I spoke with, the transcript of the President's call with President Zelenskyy was placed into a computer system managed directly by the National Security Council (NSC) Directorate for Intelligence Programs. This is a standalone computer system reserved for codeword-level intelligence information, such as covert action.” 1


The conclusion:

“I am deeply concerned that the actions described below constitute “a serious or flagrant problem, abuse, or violation of law or Executive Order” [...] I am also concerned that these actions pose risks to U.S. national security and undermine the U.S. Government's efforts to deter and counter foreign interference in U.S. elections.” 1

Sources:
  1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/read-the-whistleblower-complaint-regarding-president-trump-s-communications-with-ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky/4b9e0ca5-3824-467f-b1a3-77f2d4ee16aa/?fbclid=IwAR0oj1nxRlu_PNQmeakdyEb-WwWgrLKXWPtyBUCTPDGcYab1f7WYdjRwocc
  2. https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764453663/pentagon-letter-undercuts-trump-assertion-on-delaying-aid-to-ukraine-over-corrup?fbclid=IwAR2MxuFi7LICAqM9rj7G6RaE2l_JFZ_dF3HiWoTT1W4l1j05CF3ZILIKWA4
  3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-ordered-hold-on-military-aid-days-before-calling-ukrainian-president-officials-say/2019/09/23/df93a6ca-de38-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html?fbclid=IwAR1QyVOTWyGYcMqN_ojzqUsGXPZeVUJ-dYefgbE8GS2hjdzyLK-iAy78ToY
  4. https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2tLXsD_2tSOnqMvNpXvIoFevBjuqCCGnQjO4r224923u54fwO9V_RyeCA
  5. https://mobile.twitter.com/EllenLWeintraub/status/1139309394968096768?fbclid=IwAR3Q1xwX-qk6TbgJan_dj4d15B_RmHlzh2YEPxEpKQLfXHfPjWvU5hLvwpk
  6. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/biggest-bombshells-in-trump-whistleblower-complaint-cover-up.html?fbclid=IwAR1Axs0UcMTe9Ul9yeEcPddGY1DoOW-gSb5afE_sns9L8--QxWs1qq8oRxM

Suggestions and/or corrections are welcome



*************
The OP will be continually updated as information becomes available, and I have time to add to it.

moniker on
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«13456799

Posts

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited December 4
    Resources to follow Congressional actions:

    House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence summary and highlights:
    https://intelligence.house.gov/defendourdemocracy/

    C-SPAN:
    https://www.c-span.org/impeachment/

    NPR:
    https://www.npr.org/tags/216163255/impeachment

    PBS Livestream:
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-the-trump-impeachment-hearings-day-5

    Once more into the breach, thread.

    So today at 10AM the House Judiciary Committee will hold Impeachment hearings. Cursory googling reveals four Constitutional Law experts will testify: Noah Feldman, Pamela Karlan, Michael Gerhardt and Jonathan Turley.

    They will also consider the just released House Intelligence Report:
    moniker wrote: »

    For your viewing pleasure I have dug up the C-Span stream, official stream of the US Congress:


    During breaks in the testimony they have *shudders* viewers call in, so you might want to switch to the PBS stream for somewhat nuanced commentary:


    Hooray for public television.

    I'm still pulling for democracy, so if you can glue you eyeballs here and witness history, for better or worse, in the making.

    moniker on
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Moniker your impeachment OPs have been excellent.

    bowenDoctor DetroitmonikerfightinfilipinoNitsuaiTunesIsEvilShadowfireMorganVSorceArbitraryDescriptorTetraNitroCubaneRMS OceanicboogedybooKoopahTroopahArithon32BhowPolaritieDisco11HonkVishNubTicaldfjamMathew BurrackNo-QuarterChomp-ChompMartini_PhilosopherForarStabbity StyleMillFawstFencingsaxAegisN1tSt4lkerCommander Zoomlonelyahavaspool32never dieTofystedethjoshofalltradesMild ConfusionSpoitTetraRaymarajiPreacherTynnanJaysonFourElvenshaeIncenjucarshrykeLabelBloodsheedH0b0manKristmas KthulhuAbsoluteZeroToxMidnitedispatch.oSkeithGennenalyse RuebenA Kobold's KoboldHeirsanstodoAntoshkaMcFodderMoridin889TNTrooperHellerbooyNobeardArdolLord_AsmodeusChillyWillysarukunZonugallwt1973PenumbraBucketmanAegeriNiryaMan in the MistsElldrenZilla36038thDoeGSMemp123
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    edited November 5
    They have been unimpeachable.

    Viskod on
    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
    QuidDoctor DetroitmonikerArchiTunesIsEvilShadowfireMorganVDescendant Xchrono_travellerSorceFoolOnTheHillMeeqeBrodyTetraNitroCubaneRMS OceanicboogedybooKoopahTroopahEncGnome-InterruptusArithon32PolaritieDisco11Out Of ContextVishNubHonkYoutubeRaiden333Emerlmaster999No-QuarterChomp-ChompMartini_PhilosopherStabbity StyleShortyFawstFencingsaxAegisN1tSt4lkerBlackDragon480Jebus314Commander Zoomlonelyahavaspool32never dieMrMisterTofystedethjoshofalltradesSpoitTetraRayRickRudemarajiThe_InfidelTynnanJaysonFourCantideDark Raven XElvenshaeIncenjucarMild ConfusionshrykeLabelBloodsheedH0b0manmRahmaniKristmas KthulhuAbsoluteZeroToxMidnitedispatch.oSkeithKasynGennenalyse RuebenWho-PsydEmperorSethHeirsanstodoDisruptedCapitalistMoridin889TNTrooperVanguardNobeardArdolLegacyLord_AsmodeussarukunMarekTarantioZonugalDrezwanderingPenumbraFryBucketmanAegeriCaptain CarrotNiryapainfulPleasancemiscellaneousinsanityElldrenGreenZilla360Blameless Cleric38thDoeGSMemp123Stragint
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Moniker your impeachment OPs have been excellent.

    I need to put the work in to make it comprehensive, and easier to pull from for stupid Foxy arguments, but life gets in the way

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular

    New DOJ memo says executive branch witnesses must be allowed to bring lawyers to testimony

    It's cute that the DOJ is trying to impose rules on the House by memo, but it already worked once for Mueller, so anything's worth a try! ...Depressingly.

    YoutubeTuminchrono_travellerFencingsaxN1tSt4lkerspool32marajiJaysonFourCantideElvenshaeIncenjucarshrykeNitsuaKristmas KthulhuAbsoluteZeroToxMidnitejdarksunSkeithGennenalyse RuebenKayne Red RobeA Kobold's KoboldHeirMoridin889TNTrooperHellerbooyLord_AsmodeusZonugalAegeriBucketmanNiryapainfulPleasanceMan in the MistsElldrenBlameless Clericemp123
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »

    New DOJ memo says executive branch witnesses must be allowed to bring lawyers to testimony

    It's cute that the DOJ is trying to impose rules on the House by memo, but it already worked once for Mueller, so anything's worth a try! ...Depressingly.

    Pretty sure this is a different kettle of fish since Impeachment isn't a legal process so much as it is a political one.

    As such what Barr thinks matters about as much as how much you lament the way in which you lost your virginity.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    spool32never dieElvenshaedispatch.oHeirMoridin889Man in the Mists
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited November 5
    This quote stuck out to me on the latest Pod Save America.

    Jon Lovett quoted from George Mason, in the debates about the Constitution and the Impeachment clause:

    https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/debates_720.asp
    Col. MASON. No point is of more importance than that the right of impeachment should be continued. Shall any man be above Justice? Above all shall that man be above it, who can commit the most extensive injustice? When great crimes were committed he was for punishing the principal as well as the Coadjutors. There had been much debate & difficulty as to the mode of chusing the Executive. He approved of that which had been adopted at first, namely of referring the appointment to the Natl. Legislature. One objection agst. Electors was the danger of their being corrupted by the Candidates; & this furnished a peculiar reason in favor of impeachments whilst in office. Shall the man who has practised corruption & by that means procured his appointment in the first instance, be suffered to escape punishment, by repeating his guilt?

    Honestly this should be cut and dry, but the Republicans are clouding things by saying there wasn't corruption in the first place, so they can keep doing it. This isn't a legal argument.

    Athenor on
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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited November 5
    ArcTangent on
  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular


    MSNBC Producer

    "When I said 'no quid pro quo' I actually meant 'absolutely yes quid pro quo' my bad, dude."

    monikerchrono_travellerjmcdonaldspool32TofystedethYoutubemarajiQuidMartini_PhilosopherJaysonFourElvenshaeSleepNo-QuarterKoopahTroopahMild ConfusionMorganVshrykeLabelFawstNitsuaDuke 2.0Kristmas KthulhuToxTheDrifterMidniteKanadispatch.oKetBraGennenalyse RuebenRchanenjdarksunboogedybooHeirEmerlmaster999Moridin889TNTrooperThe SauceHellerbooyNobeardArdolLord_AsmodeusSorcesarukunButtersApogeekimeGnome-Interruptusmjn6172AegeriBucketmanNiryaMan in the MistsElldrenGreenZilla360emp123
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    When I said "No problem", I meant "No! Problem!"

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    MSNBC Producer

    "When I said 'no quid pro quo' I actually meant 'absolutely yes quid pro quo' my bad, dude."
    In his updated testimony, Mr. Sondland recounted how he had discussed the linkage with Andriy Yermak, a top adviser to President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine, on the sidelines of a Sept. 1 meeting between Vice President Mike Pence and Mr. Zelensky in Warsaw. Mr. Zelensky had discussed the suspension of aid with Mr. Pence, Mr. Sondland said.

    “I said that resumption of the U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anticorruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks,” Mr. Sondland said in the document, which was released by the House committees leading the inquiry, along with the transcript of his original testimony from last month.

    The new information surfaced as the House committees also released a transcript of their interview last month with Kurt D. Volker, the former special envoy to Ukraine. Rushing to complete their final round of requests for key witnesses before they commence public impeachment hearings, the panels also scheduled testimony on Friday by Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff. And two more administration witnesses who had been scheduled to testify on Tuesday — Michael Duffey, a top official on the White House budget office, and Wells Griffith, a senior aide to Energy Secretary Rick Perry — failed to appear.

    In his new testimony, Mr. Sondland said he believed that withholding the aid — a package of $391 million in security assistance that had been approved by Congress — was “ill-advised,” although he did not know “when, why or by whom the aid was suspended.” But he said he came to believe that the aid was tied to the investigations.

    “I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anticorruption statement,” Mr. Sondland said.

    In his closed-door interview last month, Mr. Sondland portrayed himself as a well-meaning and at times unwitting player who was trying to conduct American foreign policy with Ukraine with the full backing of the State Department while Mr. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s lawyer, repeatedly inserted himself at the behest of the president.

    But some Democrats painted him as a lackey of Mr. Trump’s who had been an agent of the shadow foreign policy on Ukraine, eager to go along with what the president wanted. Democrats contended Mr. Sondland, a wealthy hotelier from Oregon, had evaded crucial questions during his testimony, repeatedly claiming not to recall the events under scrutiny.
    I see some Democrats can see the obvious.

    Commander ZoomFencingsaxYoutubeBrodySpoitTetraRaymrpakuJaysonFourElvenshaeMild ConfusionKristmas KthulhuTheDrifterGennenalyse RuebenRchanenjdarksunA Kobold's KoboldTNTrooperArdolLord_AsmodeussarukunBucketmanMan in the MistsZilla360emp123
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Okay now charge him with perjury anyway.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    anti-corruption statement my ass

    Element BrianGaddez
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Okay now charge him with perjury anyway.

    Apparently perjury requires intent, so he can just claim he didn't remember or some other garbage.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    ArbitraryDescriptor
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular


    Lawrence O'Donnell argues that transcript show that the republicans are completely lost on how to actually defend the President during the closed door depositions. They couldn't come up with any relevant questions on how to make the president look good.

    A lot of people have noted that the Republicans were a united front on the inquiry vote, and were almost united on the Graham vote. Right now, the republicans have to be a united front, because that's the only strategy they have. They have nothing else to fall back on. It's basically gas lighting, except they're not simply trying to gaslight the public, they also need to gaslight members of their own party. The reason they were against the closed door hearings is because gaslighting doesn't really work when the only other people in the room is the opposition party.

    For those familiar with game theory, the GOP has basically positioned themselves in a game of chicken. Lots of people want to jump ship and disavow themselves from Trump, but no one wants to be the first to jump, because they'll know that they'll be targeted by their own party if they do. Now, it's entirely possible that none of them jump ship, that all of them drive their cars off the cliff and take this country with them. But this gets harder and harder to maintain the closer you get to the edge.

    The retiring members of Congress are very telling. Because right now, retiring from the Congress is the only way to abandon the Trump train without being called a traitor to the party. If there were one or two token defections, then you could tell yourself, "Well, the rest of the GOP could vote against Trump if they wanted to, but they simply don't want to." Zero defections tells me that the party is either terrified to let even one through, or it tells me that they are all true believers. But if they were all true believers, then they would have no reason to retire. You also wouldn't see them running away from reporters asking questions.

    Elvenshaechrono_travellerFencingsaxBlackDragon480JaysonFourMild ConfusionCambiatashrykeNo-QuarterDuke 2.0Martini_PhilosopherKristmas KthulhuToxTheDrifterMidniteDescendant XGennenalyse RuebenjdarksunA Kobold's KoboldDocNobeardLord_AsmodeusGaddezN1tSt4lkerApogeeHefflingAegeriBucketmanNiryaMan in the MistsElldrenZilla36038thDoe
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Kyle Cheney works for politico



    Normal government stuff, texting the exact wording you want your extortion victim to say. This is normal.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited November 5
    It’s so infuriating to read that projection as well. I mean all your own intelligence agencies, and the intelligence agencies of allies, say that it was Russia that interfered on trumps behalf, but just swap in Ukraine and Biden and believe hard enough

    That text, it’s so casual sounding, like they really don’t believe they’re doing anything wrong, they’ve bought their own propaganda about how everyone does it, so it’s no big deal

    Prohass on
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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    What the fuck Volker! Isn't he more of a career guy? Why did he go along with this stuff?

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Presumably, the SecState told him to.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    What the fuck Volker! Isn't he more of a career guy? Why did he go along with this stuff?

    Because he just saw another career official ridden out on a rail and threatened by the President of the United States. I mean that feels like part of it.

    At the same time, the level of stupid in stupid Watergate is making my head hurt. Though doing it through text is also not a bad way to make sure that there is a record someone can pull off you.

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  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    What the fuck Volker! Isn't he more of a career guy? Why did he go along with this stuff?

    Some people are never tested in a capacity where their weakness can become apparent.

    We probably all know folks we thought we knew and respected that unmasked themselves when Trump was elected.

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  • HeraldSHeraldS Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    What the fuck Volker! Isn't he more of a career guy? Why did he go along with this stuff?

    Because he just saw another career official ridden out on a rail and threatened by the President of the United States. I mean that feels like part of it.

    At the same time, the level of stupid in stupid Watergate is making my head hurt. Though doing it through text is also not a bad way to make sure that there is a record someone can pull off you.

    Also, working for this administration is like being thrown into a latrine with greased sides. There's no way out, you're covered in shit, you're fucked as soon as you're in there, and your only hope for survival is to take enough people down with you that you can stand on their corpses and somehow keep your head above water until someone throws you a rope.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Kyle Cheney works for politico



    Normal government stuff, texting the exact wording you want your extortion victim to say. This is normal.

    I would be surprised if sending proposed boilerplate is unusual for diplomats. Via text rather than cables is odd, and the extortion aspect of it is illegal, but agreeing to use specific language in public statements seems like most of what the State Department does.

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  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited November 5
    Yeees, please aim the bus at Pence.


    NEW: Sondland has revised his testimony to include a new 4 page sworn statement that admits there was a quid pro quo, that Pence was aware of the arrangements and that he was a key player in getting Ukraine to play ball.

    Tweeter is a contributor for BBC and... Playboy?

    edit: followup tweet clarifies that "key player" refers to Sondland.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 5
    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/11/05/politics/jennifer-williams-impeachment-inquiry/index.html
    Washington(CNN)A senior adviser to Vice President Mike Pence is likely to comply with a request to testify on Thursday in front of the committees leading the impeachment inquiry, multiple sources say.

    Jennifer Williams would be the first person on Pence's national security team to appear and has knowledge of how much the vice president knew about the efforts by President Donald Trump and those around him to push Ukraine to launch investigations into Joe Biden and his son, as well as 2016 election interference, according to a source familiar with her thinking.

    Williams, along with other senior administration and national security officials, was listening to the phone call on July 25 in which Trump asked for a "favor" of his newly-elected Ukrainian counterpart, President Volodymyr Zelensky, a White House source says. Trump asked Zelensky to work with his attorney general, William Barr, and personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, on investigations after Zelensky said he was ready to proceed with the transfer of US military aid to Ukraine.
    We should know if Pence learned about the call from them, which is interesting in terms of how badly off Pence is.

    Couscous on
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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular


    CBS News reporter

    If you were wondering if any of this phased Lindsay Graham, you will be unsurprised to learn that the answer is 'absolutely not'

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Kyle Cheney works for politico



    Normal government stuff, texting the exact wording you want your extortion victim to say. This is normal.

    The alleged interference by Ukraine that probably didn't happen is unacceptable?

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    CNN correspondent:
    —>> EU Amb Gordon Sondland, testified he believed Rudy Giuliani's push for Ukraine to investigate Bidens was potentially illegal. When asked if it was illegal, Sondland responded, "I'm not a lawyer, but I assume so.” (Sondland is a Trump appointee & donor)
    And he just decided to go along with it and not report it over and over?

    Well, knowingly helping illegal stuff is very believable for these people.

    Elvenshae
  • PiotyrPiotyr Registered User regular
    CBS News White House Reporter:


    Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal.

    "I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S."

    Can't defend it, so we're ignoring it, says the chair of the Senate Judiciary committee.

    Is there something that can be done if a potential juror in a trial has made up his mind about the outcome of a trial and ignores evidence? That doesn't sound much like due process.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    CBS News reporter

    If you were wondering if any of this phased Lindsay Graham, you will be unsurprised to learn that the answer is 'absolutely not'

    I reject your reality and substitute my own. Whatever happened to read the transcript?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    First it was a sham they were doing it behind closed doors. Now it's in the open, and Graham is plugging his ears. He's moved the goalposts so many times it's in someone's backyard now.

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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    Piotyr wrote: »
    CBS News White House Reporter:


    Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal.

    "I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S."

    Can't defend it, so we're ignoring it, says the chair of the Senate Judiciary committee.

    Is there something that can be done if a potential juror in a trial has made up his mind about the outcome of a trial and ignores evidence? That doesn't sound much like due process.

    I wish I could tell my boss "Nah, I'm not gonna do my job, it's BS"

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Piotyr wrote: »
    CBS News White House Reporter:


    Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal.

    "I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S."

    Can't defend it, so we're ignoring it, says the chair of the Senate Judiciary committee.

    Is there something that can be done if a potential juror in a trial has made up his mind about the outcome of a trial and ignores evidence? That doesn't sound much like due process.

    I wish I could tell my boss "Nah, I'm not gonna do my job, it's BS"

    Funny thing is, I've seen them run this playbook before. The idea is basically, if you ignore the documentation, you can't be blamed or held accountable for it. So by not reading the transcript, he can continue to claim whatever he wants.

    I'd like to point out that in most areas, ignorance of the law is not a defense against said law. I would have so much more respect for anyone if they said "hmm, this looks damaging, let's investigate further" and THEN use that new information to write off things. But no, that path may lead to something indefensible.

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  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    Piotyr wrote: »
    CBS News White House Reporter:


    Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal.

    "I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S."

    Can't defend it, so we're ignoring it, says the chair of the Senate Judiciary committee.

    Is there something that can be done if a potential juror in a trial has made up his mind about the outcome of a trial and ignores evidence? That doesn't sound much like due process.

    I wish I could tell my boss "Nah, I'm not gonna do my job, it's BS"

    When your bosses keep electing you, year after year, no matter how much of a shitheel you are then it's about the same as having no boss at all.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Piotyr wrote: »
    CBS News White House Reporter:


    Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal.

    "I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S."

    Can't defend it, so we're ignoring it, says the chair of the Senate Judiciary committee.

    Is there something that can be done if a potential juror in a trial has made up his mind about the outcome of a trial and ignores evidence? That doesn't sound much like due process.

    I wish I could tell my boss "Nah, I'm not gonna do my job, it's BS"

    Lindsey Graham's boss is Trump.

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  • PiotyrPiotyr Registered User regular
    Piotyr wrote: »
    CBS News White House Reporter:


    Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal.

    "I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S."

    Can't defend it, so we're ignoring it, says the chair of the Senate Judiciary committee.

    Is there something that can be done if a potential juror in a trial has made up his mind about the outcome of a trial and ignores evidence? That doesn't sound much like due process.

    I wish I could tell my boss "Nah, I'm not gonna do my job, it's BS"

    Lindsey Graham's boss is Trump.

    Lindsay Graham's boss is not Trump, it's his constituents.

    The whole reason this whole impeachment is even a contest is because Republicans think Trump is their boss.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    CBS News reporter

    If you were wondering if any of this phased Lindsay Graham, you will be unsurprised to learn that the answer is 'absolutely not'

    I reject your reality and substitute my own. Whatever happened to read the transcript?

    Minority Leader McCarthy didn't even read the damn memo

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited November 6
    Remember last thread, when Graham said, "show me proof"?
    And here we are. What a surprise.

    Commander Zoom on
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  • ChanusChanus Ribbit! Registered User regular
    ok show me two proofs

    what?

    okay show me four hundred

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