Z was shit about power and we should just forget about it.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I would argue that them playing Calvinball with the relative power levels of the characters makes the series better and more fun because more characters are allowed to participate in the story
Z was shit about power and we should just forget about it.
Well I have never been in a fight ever. But thanks to the Super power scale, it will be easy for me to fight you to the death.
No, I think the Super scale is trash. I would have accepted a handwave, like a fruit of the Gods that brought everyone up to a new low tier that would have been insanity in the Z days. But just pretending that Roshi can play now because we want him to is obnoxious and sabotages the series core themes of hard work and combat technique breakthroughs won through intense circumstances.
Z was shit about power and we should just forget about it.
Well I have never been in a fight ever. But thanks to the Super power scale, it will be easy for me to fight you to the death.
No, I think the Super scale is trash. I would have accepted a handwave, like a fruit of the Gods that brought everyone up to a new low tier that would have been insanity in the Z days. But just pretending that Roshi can play now because we want him to is obnoxious and sabotages the series core themes of hard work and combat technique breakthroughs won through intense circumstances.
What series have you been watching?
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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WhiteZinfandelYour insidesLet me show you themRegistered Userregular
hmm, who's lower tier than launch... oh yeah Yamcha will bleed on Moro to death
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Launch can hurt anyone as long as it’s funny for her to do so
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Never fight a gag manga character
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Z was shit about power and we should just forget about it.
Well I have never been in a fight ever. But thanks to the Super power scale, it will be easy for me to fight you to the death.
No, I think the Super scale is trash. I would have accepted a handwave, like a fruit of the Gods that brought everyone up to a new low tier that would have been insanity in the Z days. But just pretending that Roshi can play now because we want him to is obnoxious and sabotages the series core themes of hard work and combat technique breakthroughs won through intense circumstances.
What series have you been watching?
No, what series have you been watching. Was it not one where every word out of the strongest character's mouth WASN'T "training"? Goku trains the entire flight over to Namek, then has an emotional breakthrough to get Super Saiyan. Etc. Not even sure what you're trying to say here.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
There is absolutely zero emotional commitment to the idea of training in the series, it's basically just what happens in downtime, the series never places any kind of emotional importance on the idea of overcoming odds through hard work, it's just "Oh we spent awhile training in ten hojillion times gravity and now we're stronger"
"Training" is more often used for gags in the series than it is for actual delivery of any kind of central thematic elements
I mean even DBZ turned "training to get stronger" into a magic power up cause Time Chamber.
That is when they weren't handing out actual literal magical power ups via Guru and the Elder Kai, or the sacred murder water from way back in Dragonball
Maddoc on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Really I don't care about the 'training' parts of DBZ and DB.
I care about when Goku/Gohan flip the fuck out and reach a new level because someone fucked with the wrong dude
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
There is absolutely zero emotional commitment to the idea of training in the series, it's basically just what happens in downtime, the series never places any kind of emotional importance on the idea of overcoming odds through hard work, it's just "Oh we spent awhile training in ten hojillion times gravity and now we're stronger"
"Training" is more often used for gags in the series than it is for actual delivery of any kind of central thematic elements
Again, gotta really disagree. The entire Saiyan arc is about Goku and the others furiously training to be tough enough to save the world and the entire devastation of Nappa is that their work didn't pay off. They're the strongest they've ever been, by a lot, but unlike when Goku trained with Korrin or with Roshi it wasn't enough. Yamcha dies horribly without even getting to try his hardest and both Tien and Chiaotzu use self sacrifice that accomplishes nothing. Then this is reversed when Goku arrives and IS strong enough to turn the tide because he worked so so hard.
In the Super version of this story, they invite the Ox King to fight because he's popular with the fans. He didn't do any of the training but surprisingly trades punches with Nappa just fine. Turns out the year of work was meaningless and just having readers who like you is good enough!
Edit: But what if we want all the power scaled out characters to come back and make a difference? That's fine, it's silly fiction. You just have to come up with a silly fiction reason that this is possible. Have a dragon wish Roshi's strength higher for some odd reason (he is wished young and then gets trapped in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, WHATEVER). Just don't keep horribly writing in the old style and this new, much much stupider style. Gohan did not train in between Z and Super and as a consequence, nearly kills himself trying to go Super Saiyan when Frieza arrives. Okay, that checks out by the old rules, so they're still in play. Oh wait, Roshi is now stronger than Goku was at the END of Z. That makes negative 10 million percent sense, by ANY rules you could ever think of. COOL!
So I started a rewatch of DBZ since I finished Dragonball, and I looked up the voice actor for Raditz because he sounded familiar to me. So, in the dub, it was this dude named Justin Cook, who was apparently born in 1982.
This show was dubbed in 1993 how in the blue fuck did an 11 year old get hired to do voice acting? Or is there a typo for the guy's birthday on his imdb and wiki pages?
So I started a rewatch of DBZ since I finished Dragonball, and I looked up the voice actor for Raditz because he sounded familiar to me. So, in the dub, it was this dude named Justin Cook, who was apparently born in 1982.
This show was dubbed in 1993 how in the blue fuck did an 11 year old get hired to do voice acting? Or is there a typo for the guy's birthday on his imdb and wiki pages?
There have been multiple different American DBZ dubs. One of them started in 1999, maybe that's the one he's in.
That would have still put him at 16 or 17, which also seems incorrect.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The ocean dub started in 99' I think.
The Funi dub didn't start until the aughts and the saiyan saga was the last thing they dubbed.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
So basically imdb needs to get its shit together and put the date of release of that dub project, not the date of release of that show?
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Yeah like, 92 was when it was airing in Japan.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
The english airdates feel about right. Ocean dub was 1996. Then around '98 during the Ginyu part was when the big voice change happened. And then 2005 was when they redid the old episodes.
I just remember the dub change happened around high school, about '98-2000, because that's also when the internet and global information was really starting to take off. Because it was also around this time that people were discovering just how horrendously edited the dub was. Completely different music, and censorship galore like blood. To say nothing of the whole "Next dimension/HFIL/I can see their parachutes!" dialog changes. It's honestly all kind of funny now. Teenage me just kind of wrote the whole localization off as trash at that point. I'm pretty sure if I went back in time and told him that not only did that group keep going, but also completely turn their reputation around and become absolutely amazing, he'd probably lose his mind.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
There is absolutely zero emotional commitment to the idea of training in the series, it's basically just what happens in downtime, the series never places any kind of emotional importance on the idea of overcoming odds through hard work, it's just "Oh we spent awhile training in ten hojillion times gravity and now we're stronger"
"Training" is more often used for gags in the series than it is for actual delivery of any kind of central thematic elements
Again, gotta really disagree. The entire Saiyan arc is about Goku and the others furiously training to be tough enough to save the world and the entire devastation of Nappa is that their work didn't pay off. They're the strongest they've ever been, by a lot, but unlike when Goku trained with Korrin or with Roshi it wasn't enough. Yamcha dies horribly without even getting to try his hardest and both Tien and Chiaotzu use self sacrifice that accomplishes nothing. Then this is reversed when Goku arrives and IS strong enough to turn the tide because he worked so so hard.
In the Super version of this story, they invite the Ox King to fight because he's popular with the fans. He didn't do any of the training but surprisingly trades punches with Nappa just fine. Turns out the year of work was meaningless and just having readers who like you is good enough!
Edit: But what if we want all the power scaled out characters to come back and make a difference? That's fine, it's silly fiction. You just have to come up with a silly fiction reason that this is possible. Have a dragon wish Roshi's strength higher for some odd reason (he is wished young and then gets trapped in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, WHATEVER). Just don't keep horribly writing in the old style and this new, much much stupider style. Gohan did not train in between Z and Super and as a consequence, nearly kills himself trying to go Super Saiyan when Frieza arrives. Okay, that checks out by the old rules, so they're still in play. Oh wait, Roshi is now stronger than Goku was at the END of Z. That makes negative 10 million percent sense, by ANY rules you could ever think of. COOL!
Honestly, the "everyone can play" thing wouldn't bother me in the slightest, I watch JoJo, power levels not meaning shit is a thing you get used to.
BUT.
What does bother me is the inconsistency with which it is applied. Gohan gets to be laughed at and depowered because he didn't train, but Roshi trains for a weekend and suddenly he's punching up with the big boys. Either everyone gets to play or not, I don't mind, but make up your mind!
Buu being in the ToP would of been rad because he has a unique power set and they already had a way written in for him to be eliminated when things inevitably end up like they do with the whole ring-out thing.
I want to see candy-jiren beat the shit out of buu
There is absolutely zero emotional commitment to the idea of training in the series, it's basically just what happens in downtime, the series never places any kind of emotional importance on the idea of overcoming odds through hard work, it's just "Oh we spent awhile training in ten hojillion times gravity and now we're stronger"
"Training" is more often used for gags in the series than it is for actual delivery of any kind of central thematic elements
Again, gotta really disagree. The entire Saiyan arc is about Goku and the others furiously training to be tough enough to save the world and the entire devastation of Nappa is that their work didn't pay off. They're the strongest they've ever been, by a lot, but unlike when Goku trained with Korrin or with Roshi it wasn't enough. Yamcha dies horribly without even getting to try his hardest and both Tien and Chiaotzu use self sacrifice that accomplishes nothing. Then this is reversed when Goku arrives and IS strong enough to turn the tide because he worked so so hard.
In the Super version of this story, they invite the Ox King to fight because he's popular with the fans. He didn't do any of the training but surprisingly trades punches with Nappa just fine. Turns out the year of work was meaningless and just having readers who like you is good enough!
Edit: But what if we want all the power scaled out characters to come back and make a difference? That's fine, it's silly fiction. You just have to come up with a silly fiction reason that this is possible. Have a dragon wish Roshi's strength higher for some odd reason (he is wished young and then gets trapped in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, WHATEVER). Just don't keep horribly writing in the old style and this new, much much stupider style. Gohan did not train in between Z and Super and as a consequence, nearly kills himself trying to go Super Saiyan when Frieza arrives. Okay, that checks out by the old rules, so they're still in play. Oh wait, Roshi is now stronger than Goku was at the END of Z. That makes negative 10 million percent sense, by ANY rules you could ever think of. COOL!
Yeah, they did that in the Saiyan arc. And that was the last time training was ever worth anything.
Namek Saga? Guru powerup, Saiyan revival powerup, pure rage powerup into Super Saiyan, fusion with Nail powerup. Goku did train in the ship while flying to Namek but that was only good for fighting the Ginyu Force and was borderline worthless for Frieza.
Android Saga? Chamber of Time powerup, fusion with Kami powerup, pure rage powerup into Super Saiyan 2. The training they did in the interim from Frieza and the Androids? Near worthless outside of Androids 19 and 20. 17 and 18 wiped the floor with everyone.
Buu Saga? Magic Kai powerup, magic earrings powerup, Spirit Bomb ended the threat and considering the energy is from other people even Krillin could do the same thing if he was capable of using the move.
At no point has training been anything more than filler or a cheap excuse to let them briefly look strong before being cratered and needing some of that plot juice to carry the day.
My head canon is that as Goku and friends train, they unlock the ability for others to get stronger, which is why it's more easily accessible for guys like Roshi, Krillin, and Tien to get stronger and keep up with the main characters.
Posts
Z was shit about power and we should just forget about it.
Well I have never been in a fight ever. But thanks to the Super power scale, it will be easy for me to fight you to the death.
No, I think the Super scale is trash. I would have accepted a handwave, like a fruit of the Gods that brought everyone up to a new low tier that would have been insanity in the Z days. But just pretending that Roshi can play now because we want him to is obnoxious and sabotages the series core themes of hard work and combat technique breakthroughs won through intense circumstances.
What series have you been watching?
Never bet on DBZ
Always bet on DBZ
It's that Roshi fucking sucks
If any of the humans deserve a power-up it's goddamn Videl
No, what series have you been watching. Was it not one where every word out of the strongest character's mouth WASN'T "training"? Goku trains the entire flight over to Namek, then has an emotional breakthrough to get Super Saiyan. Etc. Not even sure what you're trying to say here.
"Training" is more often used for gags in the series than it is for actual delivery of any kind of central thematic elements
That is when they weren't handing out actual literal magical power ups via Guru and the Elder Kai, or the sacred murder water from way back in Dragonball
I care about when Goku/Gohan flip the fuck out and reach a new level because someone fucked with the wrong dude
Again, gotta really disagree. The entire Saiyan arc is about Goku and the others furiously training to be tough enough to save the world and the entire devastation of Nappa is that their work didn't pay off. They're the strongest they've ever been, by a lot, but unlike when Goku trained with Korrin or with Roshi it wasn't enough. Yamcha dies horribly without even getting to try his hardest and both Tien and Chiaotzu use self sacrifice that accomplishes nothing. Then this is reversed when Goku arrives and IS strong enough to turn the tide because he worked so so hard.
In the Super version of this story, they invite the Ox King to fight because he's popular with the fans. He didn't do any of the training but surprisingly trades punches with Nappa just fine. Turns out the year of work was meaningless and just having readers who like you is good enough!
Edit: But what if we want all the power scaled out characters to come back and make a difference? That's fine, it's silly fiction. You just have to come up with a silly fiction reason that this is possible. Have a dragon wish Roshi's strength higher for some odd reason (he is wished young and then gets trapped in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, WHATEVER). Just don't keep horribly writing in the old style and this new, much much stupider style. Gohan did not train in between Z and Super and as a consequence, nearly kills himself trying to go Super Saiyan when Frieza arrives. Okay, that checks out by the old rules, so they're still in play. Oh wait, Roshi is now stronger than Goku was at the END of Z. That makes negative 10 million percent sense, by ANY rules you could ever think of. COOL!
This show was dubbed in 1993 how in the blue fuck did an 11 year old get hired to do voice acting? Or is there a typo for the guy's birthday on his imdb and wiki pages?
There have been multiple different American DBZ dubs. One of them started in 1999, maybe that's the one he's in.
The Funi dub didn't start until the aughts and the saiyan saga was the last thing they dubbed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dragon_Ball_Z_episodes
The english airdates feel about right. Ocean dub was 1996. Then around '98 during the Ginyu part was when the big voice change happened. And then 2005 was when they redid the old episodes.
I just remember the dub change happened around high school, about '98-2000, because that's also when the internet and global information was really starting to take off. Because it was also around this time that people were discovering just how horrendously edited the dub was. Completely different music, and censorship galore like blood. To say nothing of the whole "Next dimension/HFIL/I can see their parachutes!" dialog changes. It's honestly all kind of funny now. Teenage me just kind of wrote the whole localization off as trash at that point. I'm pretty sure if I went back in time and told him that not only did that group keep going, but also completely turn their reputation around and become absolutely amazing, he'd probably lose his mind.
Honestly, the "everyone can play" thing wouldn't bother me in the slightest, I watch JoJo, power levels not meaning shit is a thing you get used to.
BUT.
What does bother me is the inconsistency with which it is applied. Gohan gets to be laughed at and depowered because he didn't train, but Roshi trains for a weekend and suddenly he's punching up with the big boys. Either everyone gets to play or not, I don't mind, but make up your mind!
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
I don't hate Buu, but I wouldn't say I liked him either. He was fine for his arc, but I really don't need him around.
I could look past that if his character was interesting but maaaaan
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
I want to see candy-jiren beat the shit out of buu
Yeah, they did that in the Saiyan arc. And that was the last time training was ever worth anything.
Namek Saga? Guru powerup, Saiyan revival powerup, pure rage powerup into Super Saiyan, fusion with Nail powerup. Goku did train in the ship while flying to Namek but that was only good for fighting the Ginyu Force and was borderline worthless for Frieza.
Android Saga? Chamber of Time powerup, fusion with Kami powerup, pure rage powerup into Super Saiyan 2. The training they did in the interim from Frieza and the Androids? Near worthless outside of Androids 19 and 20. 17 and 18 wiped the floor with everyone.
Buu Saga? Magic Kai powerup, magic earrings powerup, Spirit Bomb ended the threat and considering the energy is from other people even Krillin could do the same thing if he was capable of using the move.
At no point has training been anything more than filler or a cheap excuse to let them briefly look strong before being cratered and needing some of that plot juice to carry the day.
Coran Attack!
The Moro arc has decided “hey, Buu is interesting now”
It's included in this video:
"Yes, I am."
"You stay out of this!"
"Well look at that, SO DID WE!"
"How old's that baby?"
"I don't give a shit about butterflies!"
I love Buu, he's the best