I'm... kind of tempted? I keep meaning to buy the Black Library bundle whenever it resurfaces, but I keep not doing it (partially because I'm pretty sure I don't have time for all those books). The audio book version might be worth it, though? Certainly it has the benefit that I get to hear people actually pronounce all the dopey, overwrought 40k proper nouns.
Which of the books are worth reading/listening to? Which tier offers the Best Value(tm)?
I'm... kind of tempted? I keep meaning to buy the Black Library bundle whenever it resurfaces, but I keep not doing it (partially because I'm pretty sure I don't have time for all those books). The audio book version might be worth it, though? Certainly it has the benefit that I get to hear people actually pronounce all the dopey, overwrought 40k proper nouns.
Which of the books are worth reading/listening to? Which tier offers the Best Value(tm)?
I have a bunch of those audiobooks and they're excellent.
Overall the quality of most of GW's audiobooks is very high. The guy that narrates Magnus the Red isn't great, but most of the other narrators are solid gold.
Keep in mind, some of these audios are very short... like an hour front to back.
I just scrape them off with a scalpel. Been thinking about getting the GW Official Moldline Remover Tool™, but honestly a scalpel works well enough for me.
I use a scalpel mostly, and then I have a hobby file I will occasionally use
0
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
I mostly use hobby/needle files and scrape. Sandpaper is only really useful for quite large surfaces but when I do use it I tend to use about 2000 grit, mostly because thats what I have. For scraping though, the back of a box cutter blade is fine and won’t prematurely blunt the edge either.
I'm... kind of tempted? I keep meaning to buy the Black Library bundle whenever it resurfaces, but I keep not doing it (partially because I'm pretty sure I don't have time for all those books). The audio book version might be worth it, though? Certainly it has the benefit that I get to hear people actually pronounce all the dopey, overwrought 40k proper nouns.
Which of the books are worth reading/listening to? Which tier offers the Best Value(tm)?
I have a bunch of those audiobooks and they're excellent.
Overall the quality of most of GW's audiobooks is very high. The guy that narrates Magnus the Red isn't great, but most of the other narrators are solid gold.
That's good, but like... how's the quality of the books? You know what I mean? Like it's good that the narrators are putting their all into it, but even a magnificent narrator can only elevate crummy material so much. I know this has been asked and answered multiple times on the forums, but I always neglect to take notes on which books are good and which aren't worth the time.
Keep in mind, some of these audios are very short... like an hour front to back.
I'll be honest: to me, that's an upside! It means I'll have time to actually get through it. It's like listening to an episode of a podcast.
I'm... kind of tempted? I keep meaning to buy the Black Library bundle whenever it resurfaces, but I keep not doing it (partially because I'm pretty sure I don't have time for all those books). The audio book version might be worth it, though? Certainly it has the benefit that I get to hear people actually pronounce all the dopey, overwrought 40k proper nouns.
Which of the books are worth reading/listening to? Which tier offers the Best Value(tm)?
I have a bunch of those audiobooks and they're excellent.
Overall the quality of most of GW's audiobooks is very high. The guy that narrates Magnus the Red isn't great, but most of the other narrators are solid gold.
That's good, but like... how's the quality of the books? You know what I mean? Like it's good that the narrators are putting their all into it, but even a magnificent narrator can only elevate crummy material so much. I know this has been asked and answered multiple times on the forums, but I always neglect to take notes on which books are good and which aren't worth the time.
Keep in mind, some of these audios are very short... like an hour front to back.
I'll be honest: to me, that's an upside! It means I'll have time to actually get through it. It's like listening to an episode of a podcast.
90% of the Horus heresy stuff is as good as it gets for 40k novels.
The girlyman primarchs novel is pretty meh, cuz it's girlyman and he's pretty dull. The Magnus was rates a solid "good". And the Russ one was really good.
I'm... kind of tempted? I keep meaning to buy the Black Library bundle whenever it resurfaces, but I keep not doing it (partially because I'm pretty sure I don't have time for all those books). The audio book version might be worth it, though? Certainly it has the benefit that I get to hear people actually pronounce all the dopey, overwrought 40k proper nouns.
Which of the books are worth reading/listening to? Which tier offers the Best Value(tm)?
I have a bunch of those audiobooks and they're excellent.
Overall the quality of most of GW's audiobooks is very high. The guy that narrates Magnus the Red isn't great, but most of the other narrators are solid gold.
That's good, but like... how's the quality of the books? You know what I mean? Like it's good that the narrators are putting their all into it, but even a magnificent narrator can only elevate crummy material so much. I know this has been asked and answered multiple times on the forums, but I always neglect to take notes on which books are good and which aren't worth the time.
Keep in mind, some of these audios are very short... like an hour front to back.
I'll be honest: to me, that's an upside! It means I'll have time to actually get through it. It's like listening to an episode of a podcast.
90% of the Horus heresy stuff is as good as it gets for 40k novels.
The girlyman primarchs novel is pretty meh, cuz it's girlyman and he's pretty dull. The Magnus was rates a solid "good". And the Russ one was really good.
I thought Dan Abnett's novels single handedly rescued that whole character.
I'm... kind of tempted? I keep meaning to buy the Black Library bundle whenever it resurfaces, but I keep not doing it (partially because I'm pretty sure I don't have time for all those books). The audio book version might be worth it, though? Certainly it has the benefit that I get to hear people actually pronounce all the dopey, overwrought 40k proper nouns.
Which of the books are worth reading/listening to? Which tier offers the Best Value(tm)?
I have a bunch of those audiobooks and they're excellent.
Overall the quality of most of GW's audiobooks is very high. The guy that narrates Magnus the Red isn't great, but most of the other narrators are solid gold.
That's good, but like... how's the quality of the books? You know what I mean? Like it's good that the narrators are putting their all into it, but even a magnificent narrator can only elevate crummy material so much. I know this has been asked and answered multiple times on the forums, but I always neglect to take notes on which books are good and which aren't worth the time.
Keep in mind, some of these audios are very short... like an hour front to back.
I'll be honest: to me, that's an upside! It means I'll have time to actually get through it. It's like listening to an episode of a podcast.
90% of the Horus heresy stuff is as good as it gets for 40k novels.
The girlyman primarchs novel is pretty meh, cuz it's girlyman and he's pretty dull. The Magnus was rates a solid "good". And the Russ one was really good.
I thought Dan Abnett's novels single handedly rescued that whole character.
Unremembered empire was good and featured Guilliman, Sanguinus and the Lion and, I believe, gave the other 40k authors some material to work with in making Guilliman interesting.... I just wrapped up Ruinstorm (book 46) and Annandale did a good job rolling with Abnetts Guilliman.
But Guillimans Primarchs novel feels very paint by numbers. We already know a lot about guilliman, so it's really just a story that expands a bit on how the Ultramarines had a Destroyers chapter at one point, but otherwise is just Guilliman vs the Orks and lots of chatter about "theoreticals and practicals". It's like reading about an accountant battling orks.
Compared to other Primarchs novels guilliman and the Vulkan novels are pretty dull. Vulkan I actually put down halfway through.
The best primarchs novels (IMO) are the ones that expand on stuff we don't know about each of the Primarchs… the Angron book is awesome in that way, as well as the Khan, Perturabo, Fulgrim. Lorgars is good but is mostly known lore. Corax is ok... he's not the most interesting protagonist, though the subplots are excellent and expand on some crazy stuff. Magnus doesn't expand much on Magnus, but does tell some cool stuff about the Thousand Sons. Curze's story is great... it'd fit in with the new 40k horror stuff and has some sad turns.
I like A Thousand Sons. In fact, gimme that space wizardry, love it to bits.
I actually had a hard time reading A Thousand Sons. It just never really took off for me, and by the time the Wolves did their thing, I was done. It just seemed like stuff happened because it was supposed to and seemingly out of nowhere.
+1
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
My brother and I were just having an argument about 'space wizardry', he was insisting that 40k doesn't have magic, and that psyker powers don't work like magic because it all relies on the psyker's own ability to channel the warp or use extradimensional aliens to get the effect you want. I was adamant that many universes with magic, explicit magic, also have frameworks and attempt to have consistent internal logic for how they work, and that one could equally say an elemental you summon to empower your golem is an extradimensional alien you're using to get the effect you want.
Basically my argument was that in 40k psyker powers are just magic by another name, his argument was that there was in fact a meaningful distinction between psyker powers in 40k, as sci fi, and magic as it appears in WHF and other fantasy universes.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
I agree with your brother in how 40k's "magic" works as the warp is the fuel and power for much for it
Just the necrons use math and other things instead
I'd argue 40k has both, in that psykers have warp channeling and the baddies have some pretty distinct rituals that are very much OG magic. Mostly involving blood sacrifice.
Also the goodies in 40k frequently use hexagrammic warding, which seems like a very magic trope.
My brother and I were just having an argument about 'space wizardry', he was insisting that 40k doesn't have magic, and that psyker powers don't work like magic because it all relies on the psyker's own ability to channel the warp or use extradimensional aliens to get the effect you want. I was adamant that many universes with magic, explicit magic, also have frameworks and attempt to have consistent internal logic for how they work, and that one could equally say an elemental you summon to empower your golem is an extradimensional alien you're using to get the effect you want.
Basically my argument was that in 40k psyker powers are just magic by another name, his argument was that there was in fact a meaningful distinction between psyker powers in 40k, as sci fi, and magic as it appears in WHF and other fantasy universes.
Bro.
It's magic.
Any explanations are after the fact. Just like Star Trek. In soft-sci fi, story drives the tech, in hard sci-fi, it's the other way around.
I like A Thousand Sons. In fact, gimme that space wizardry, love it to bits.
I actually had a hard time reading A Thousand Sons. It just never really took off for me, and by the time the Wolves did their thing, I was done. It just seemed like stuff happened because it was supposed to and seemingly out of nowhere.
Same, I really wanted to like it because the Thousand Sons are one of my favourite legions. Graham McNeill is...not a good writer
My brother and I were just having an argument about 'space wizardry', he was insisting that 40k doesn't have magic, and that psyker powers don't work like magic because it all relies on the psyker's own ability to channel the warp or use extradimensional aliens to get the effect you want.
I don't understand how this is different from magic.
Like I guess if your strict definition of magic is that there are some musty tomes with formulas, and anybody can come along and just follow instructions to achieve the miraculous effects, then 40k warp-stuff might not be magic. But, there are billions of settings and franchises where magic depends on one's talent, or skill, or willpower, or some other personal trait.
There's an entire pen-and-paper RPG called "Mage: the Ascension" where magic is very specifically a person using their raw willpower and/or belief to twist and bend and warp and push around reality to achieve whatever effect they want, and it requires a specific supernatural trait - and the act of using stable, explicit formulas that achieve minor miraculous effects by following loopholes in reality's laws (instead of bending them), and which can be done by any mere mortal with the right knowledge, is called "sorcery" or "hedge magic", and is looked down upon by the True Mages.
Like I guess if your strict definition of magic is that there are some musty tomes with formulas, and anybody can come along and just follow instructions to achieve the miraculous effects, then 40k warp-stuff might not be magic. But, there are billions of settings and franchises where magic depends on one's talent, or skill, or willpower, or some other personal trait.
There's an entire pen-and-paper RPG called "Mage: the Ascension" where magic is very specifically a person using their raw willpower and/or belief to twist and bend and warp and push around reality to achieve whatever effect they want, and it requires a specific supernatural trait - and the act of using stable, explicit formulas that achieve minor miraculous effects by following loopholes in reality's laws (instead of bending them), and which can be done by any mere mortal with the right knowledge, is called "sorcery" or "hedge magic", and is looked down upon by the True Mages.
Well, there is a science to warp-stuff, it's called psyniscience, and there are some hints that the act of channeling the warp is universal (there's a bit in Fear to Tread where a Blood Angel ex-Librarian notices that the Ork weirdboy is doing the same gestures he has done to summon warpfire.)
So forget what I said about the Force. It's all about that arcane knowledge, baby!
Children's rights are human rights.
0
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Basically it goes like this:
Psykery is the practitioner grabbing raw warp energy, dragging it into realspace, shaping it with their will and unleashing it. Obviously this comes with a rather heavy risk of attracting the attention of the beings that live there, whose energy you’re stealing and who may object, violently. You need the psyker gene and training, the first to get the energy in the first place and the second to not get your brain eaten from the inside out. Doing it right is epically badass by default because you’re literally enforcing your will on two separate universes simultaneously. Doing it wrong is very, very brief, though it may not feel like it.
Sorcery is the practitioner deliberately attracting the attention of warp-residents and asking nicely for a cup of power kindly please. Somewhat obviously this has the risk of the attracted denizen saying no, violently but also has the much more subtle and frankly more dangerous circumstance where they say yes but require an exchange, be it worship, or sacrifice, or destroying the being’s enemies. Psyker gene not strictly required but handy for the getting attention part. A decent book of known recipes and a steady supply of suckersacolytes will suffice for the rest most of the time. Doing it right is less badass but easier. Wrong is about the same.
Magic is using warp power that is already in the Real somehow, gathering it to you and shaping it to do things. On the surface this is vastly safer because you don’t have to directly interact with the warp but that is, of course, a lie mages tell themselves to feel better about Exploding Head Syndrome which isn’t common at all and surely has no statistical correlation with anything they’re doing, oh no. No psyker gene required but large amounts of training and hallucinogens are, mostly to trick yourself into believing it can actually work. Not actually very useful outside of places with an existing warp rift nearby. Doing it right may feel badass but that’s mostly just the drugs talking. Doing it wrong can occasionally be merely instantly fatal, if you’re lucky.
My brother and I were just having an argument about 'space wizardry', he was insisting that 40k doesn't have magic, and that psyker powers don't work like magic because it all relies on the psyker's own ability to channel the warp or use extradimensional aliens to get the effect you want. I was adamant that many universes with magic, explicit magic, also have frameworks and attempt to have consistent internal logic for how they work, and that one could equally say an elemental you summon to empower your golem is an extradimensional alien you're using to get the effect you want.
Basically my argument was that in 40k psyker powers are just magic by another name, his argument was that there was in fact a meaningful distinction between psyker powers in 40k, as sci fi, and magic as it appears in WHF and other fantasy universes.
I was under the impression that the warp is canonically an astral plane reflecting the thoughts and experiences of sentient beings in the material plane (possibly even limited to the sapient, do unintelligent animals like dogs and cats contribute?), and that daemons aren't living things of any sort, but essentially self-aware accumulations of thought energy (because psychic energy tends to attract and adhere to similar emotions/drives). This is where the Orkz' ability to make machines work through belief draws its power; it's like a passive psyker spell.
It's definitely a kind of magic though. Anything not explicitly based in scientific theory or described as being made possible by technology is magic, no matter how a given series dresses it up. Hell, magic is often tied to bloodlines/genetics in a lot of folklore & fiction, so I'd even argue that X-Men are basically magic. Having rules about how it works doesn't make something not-magic; how could worlds like Harry Potter's have academic schools of magic if it doesn't have reproducible results for a given effort/input?
Is the Ork gestalt consciousness and weirdboy power magic or psyker energy?
I feel Weirdboys as it was said in the Er we go book can use the warp on a primal level but it's like playing with a fire hose as they can only hold in the energy to bits and sparks of it come off all the time as the pressure builds they can either use the power or go pop both are amusing and useful to the orks
0
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Is the Ork gestalt consciousness and weirdboy power magic or psyker energy?
Yes.
No, really, it’s both. They gotta private, firewalled chunk of the warp that regular Orks draw on to manifest the Waaagh! but that energy dissipates into the Real as green magic their Shamans gather subconsciously and either learn how to use or explode. Either way it entertains the troops so no-one minds too much.
Posts
https://www.humblebundle.com/books/voices-heresy-black-library-books
I'm... kind of tempted? I keep meaning to buy the Black Library bundle whenever it resurfaces, but I keep not doing it (partially because I'm pretty sure I don't have time for all those books). The audio book version might be worth it, though? Certainly it has the benefit that I get to hear people actually pronounce all the dopey, overwrought 40k proper nouns.
Which of the books are worth reading/listening to? Which tier offers the Best Value(tm)?
I kind of like the look of the inceptors. But they are a pain to highlight
I have a bunch of those audiobooks and they're excellent.
Overall the quality of most of GW's audiobooks is very high. The guy that narrates Magnus the Red isn't great, but most of the other narrators are solid gold.
Keep in mind, some of these audios are very short... like an hour front to back.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Satans..... hints.....
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
I'll be honest: to me, that's an upside! It means I'll have time to actually get through it. It's like listening to an episode of a podcast.
90% of the Horus heresy stuff is as good as it gets for 40k novels.
The girlyman primarchs novel is pretty meh, cuz it's girlyman and he's pretty dull. The Magnus was rates a solid "good". And the Russ one was really good.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
So I guess that means there are 50+ books in the Horus Heresy alone.
I thought Dan Abnett's novels single handedly rescued that whole character.
Also possibly relevant.
Unremembered empire was good and featured Guilliman, Sanguinus and the Lion and, I believe, gave the other 40k authors some material to work with in making Guilliman interesting.... I just wrapped up Ruinstorm (book 46) and Annandale did a good job rolling with Abnetts Guilliman.
But Guillimans Primarchs novel feels very paint by numbers. We already know a lot about guilliman, so it's really just a story that expands a bit on how the Ultramarines had a Destroyers chapter at one point, but otherwise is just Guilliman vs the Orks and lots of chatter about "theoreticals and practicals". It's like reading about an accountant battling orks.
Compared to other Primarchs novels guilliman and the Vulkan novels are pretty dull. Vulkan I actually put down halfway through.
The best primarchs novels (IMO) are the ones that expand on stuff we don't know about each of the Primarchs… the Angron book is awesome in that way, as well as the Khan, Perturabo, Fulgrim. Lorgars is good but is mostly known lore. Corax is ok... he's not the most interesting protagonist, though the subplots are excellent and expand on some crazy stuff. Magnus doesn't expand much on Magnus, but does tell some cool stuff about the Thousand Sons. Curze's story is great... it'd fit in with the new 40k horror stuff and has some sad turns.
Yeah... that's my quick Primarchs novels review.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Know No Fear is a good book! It makes the Ultramarines seem cool, and the rowboat actually comes off as a person with emotions
I actually had a hard time reading A Thousand Sons. It just never really took off for me, and by the time the Wolves did their thing, I was done. It just seemed like stuff happened because it was supposed to and seemingly out of nowhere.
Basically my argument was that in 40k psyker powers are just magic by another name, his argument was that there was in fact a meaningful distinction between psyker powers in 40k, as sci fi, and magic as it appears in WHF and other fantasy universes.
Just the necrons use math and other things instead
Also the goodies in 40k frequently use hexagrammic warding, which seems like a very magic trope.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Bro.
It's magic.
Any explanations are after the fact. Just like Star Trek. In soft-sci fi, story drives the tech, in hard sci-fi, it's the other way around.
Same, I really wanted to like it because the Thousand Sons are one of my favourite legions. Graham McNeill is...not a good writer
Almost like a wizard did it?
There's an entire pen-and-paper RPG called "Mage: the Ascension" where magic is very specifically a person using their raw willpower and/or belief to twist and bend and warp and push around reality to achieve whatever effect they want, and it requires a specific supernatural trait - and the act of using stable, explicit formulas that achieve minor miraculous effects by following loopholes in reality's laws (instead of bending them), and which can be done by any mere mortal with the right knowledge, is called "sorcery" or "hedge magic", and is looked down upon by the True Mages.
Well, there is a science to warp-stuff, it's called psyniscience, and there are some hints that the act of channeling the warp is universal (there's a bit in Fear to Tread where a Blood Angel ex-Librarian notices that the Ork weirdboy is doing the same gestures he has done to summon warpfire.)
So forget what I said about the Force. It's all about that arcane knowledge, baby!
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
I was under the impression that the warp is canonically an astral plane reflecting the thoughts and experiences of sentient beings in the material plane (possibly even limited to the sapient, do unintelligent animals like dogs and cats contribute?), and that daemons aren't living things of any sort, but essentially self-aware accumulations of thought energy (because psychic energy tends to attract and adhere to similar emotions/drives). This is where the Orkz' ability to make machines work through belief draws its power; it's like a passive psyker spell.
It's definitely a kind of magic though. Anything not explicitly based in scientific theory or described as being made possible by technology is magic, no matter how a given series dresses it up. Hell, magic is often tied to bloodlines/genetics in a lot of folklore & fiction, so I'd even argue that X-Men are basically magic. Having rules about how it works doesn't make something not-magic; how could worlds like Harry Potter's have academic schools of magic if it doesn't have reproducible results for a given effort/input?
I feel Weirdboys as it was said in the Er we go book can use the warp on a primal level but it's like playing with a fire hose as they can only hold in the energy to bits and sparks of it come off all the time as the pressure builds they can either use the power or go pop both are amusing and useful to the orks
No, really, it’s both. They gotta private, firewalled chunk of the warp that regular Orks draw on to manifest the Waaagh! but that energy dissipates into the Real as green magic their Shamans gather subconsciously and either learn how to use or explode. Either way it entertains the troops so no-one minds too much.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.