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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Platy wrote: »
    It took me ten years of looking at maps to actually see the fish hook which ancient people thought gave Anglia and England their names

    I find it a lot easier if you just kind of pretend that Cornwall and Devon don't exist. Then you can just trace the Eastern/Southern coastline and it's pretty close.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    The coastline probably looked a bit different back in the day but here it is

    "Angle" means a fish hook and when people from Anglia went over to what is now England they took the name with them

    pNybotc.jpg

    Metzger MeisterDouglasDangerEddy
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Oh whoops yeah I was thinking of the English coastline, but it would be the Anglian peninsula of course

    And that one is a lot harder to see

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Platy wrote: »
    It took me ten years of looking at maps to actually see the fish hook which ancient people thought gave Anglia and England their names

    I find it a lot easier if you just kind of pretend that Cornwall and Devon don't exist. Then you can just trace the Eastern/Southern coastline and it's pretty close.

    this is why Cornwall voted UKIP.

    Fencingsaxchrishallett83Elvenshae
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    This is what I'm seeing for it I guess:

    ubg444a2dyyv.png

    Which looks kind of like the end of like, a bone fish hook, but doesn't... feel hooked enough?

  • IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost Registered User regular
    I know it's not the name, but on that map I'm reading the name of that....fjord? As "Fuckerforde."

    Poorochondriac
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    man that must been a fun time

    I wish I was born back when you could just live as a "scholar" or "philosopher" and just make shit up like fact

    Good news, the internet lets people do exactly that! Just make up some shit, and as long as a perceptible percentage of the population can use it to excuse their failures, justify their preconceptions or just imagine that they know something about the world that most people don't, then you're made. Making shit up too hard? Take your pick: Flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, incels, Q-Anons, or many, many more will lap up your shit as long as you put a slightly new spin on it.

    chrishallett83
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    TL3vjUr.jpg
    Paving block barricades of the Paris Commune, April 1871. Corner of the Place de l'Hôtel-de-Ville and the Rue de Rivoli.

    What do you figure that dude in the top centre was doing to be still long enough to show up that well, I bet he was havin a smoke

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  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    I bet he was jerkin' it

    sarukunMetzger Meister
  • MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    I bet he was jerkin' it

    Hell yeah dude

  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    we has taking a number one

    you know, oui'ing

    Elvenshaekime
  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    Probably scared stiff from being surrounded by all the ghosts around him

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  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Paving block barricades of the Paris Commune, April 1871. Corner of the Place de l'Hôtel-de-Ville and the Rue de Rivoli.

    What do you figure that dude in the top centre was doing to be still long enough to show up that well, I bet he was havin a smoke

    Photobombing. They didn't have the science down quite right in 1871.

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
    Captain InertiaEddynever die
  • JedocJedoc Once to start a new life and once just to start a fireRegistered User regular
    I bet he was jerkin' it

    When the beating of your meat
    Echoes the beating of the drums
    There is a life about to start
    When that dude over there comes

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  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    Bodhidharma: Founder of Zen, from India to Shaolin 20:44

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    HobnailIronKnuckle's Ghost
  • PhantPhant Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    game of thrones also bought into the fallacy that everything was brown and everybody nobles were covered in shit

    people wore bright colors and cared about their appearance, also people bathed at least once a week and washed their hands, feet and face daily

    at least until the second plague and the church started saying public baths were the cause of the spread
    I mean, it all depends on where you are drawing from, there is definately a period in the middle ages in Europe where bathing wasn't a thing. One of the french kings, a Louis, notoriously stunk so bad people went ahead of him to open windows and he bragged about having only ever bathed like, twice in his life.

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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Was that like an widely admired trait or like an inbred royalty wince inducing eccentric crazy person trait

    Kayne Red Robe
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Was that like an widely admired trait or like an inbred royalty wince inducing eccentric crazy person trait

    The latter, for sure.

    Saying that people didn't bathe in the middle ages is like saying people don't bathe in the modern day because most of us take showers. Not bathing is different than not washing, and those terms were not used interchangeably.

    Also Europe has a long history of bathhouses and other bathing facilities, only some of which were facades for prostitution.

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Was that like an widely admired trait or like an inbred royalty wince inducing eccentric crazy person trait

    The latter, for sure.

    Saying that people didn't bathe in the middle ages is like saying people don't bathe in the modern day because most of us take showers. Not bathing is different than not washing, and those terms were not used interchangeably.

    Also Europe has a long history of bathhouses and other bathing facilities, only some of which were facades for prostitution.

    there is no cannibalism in the british navy

  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    I mentioned in the book threading I'm still reading Antony Beevor's ww2 histories.

    One thing I don't think is mentioned a whole lot in the more mainstream WW2 narrative is just how bad at war Hitler was, and how, more or less, the war was virtually unwinnable for Germany.

    Like, holy shit he made so many ridiculous decisions that were very plainly awful from a tactical standpoint.

    I guess that's what happens when you put an egotistical, puerile psychopath into office who has a deep seated mistrust and contempt of established institutions and people who aren't slavering, rat fucking sycophants loyal only to them. Sounds... weirdly familiar.

    Kayne Red RobeElvenshaepainfulPleasanceShadowhopeV1mchrishallett83Eddy
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Oh, that is definitely the mainstream narrative and unfortunately it is mostly a product of German generals giving their own version of events after the fact, trying to absolve themselves of a genocidal war strategy by pinning everything on Hitler

    Platy on
  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    Was there any threat of the USSR entering the war against Germany? Because the basic narrative is that Germany did it out of the blue, and that it was an idiotic thing to do.

    I mean, everyone knew that the two dictatorships were going to stab each other in the back (lots of political cartoons at the time showing the smiling with guns pointed at each other behind their backs) but I think people assumed that the USSR was next after the western front was finished.

    And seeing as Hitler liked to sack generals who failed/argued with him, natural selection by the end of the war was that the only generals left were the sycophantic yes men.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    stalin's government seems to have been kind of bizarrely trusting of hitler; they presumably figured germany had enough on her plate for the moment, but you'd still think the nazis history prior to barbarossa would leave them alert for betrayal. But no; russia ignored various warnings and the red army was pretty much totally unprepared to defend itself.

    stalin's surprise was so total that he took more than 24 hours to even issue a response, presumably because he thought someone from his own government would assassinate him and seize power. It was only once none did that he responded

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    painfulPleasance
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    Was there any threat of the USSR entering the war against Germany? Because the basic narrative is that Germany did it out of the blue, and that it was an idiotic thing to do.

    I mean, everyone knew that the two dictatorships were going to stab each other in the back (lots of political cartoons at the time showing the smiling with guns pointed at each other behind their backs) but I think people assumed that the USSR was next after the western front was finished.

    And seeing as Hitler liked to sack generals who failed/argued with him, natural selection by the end of the war was that the only generals left were the sycophantic yes men.

    I'm pretty sure it was like, global politics prisoner's dilemma playing out in realtime.

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  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Hindsight being 20/20, Hitler's history of backstabbing both countries and people, including 'friends', should have alerted the Soviets.

    But I can kinda understand, Germany was busy was fighting a war on the Western Front, and Stalin and his Foreign Ministry knew that despite what the Nazi's said, they were having a bit of trouble finishing the job. So, what idiot would attempt to open a second, incredibly wide front?
    Answer: The Nazis

    Muzzmuzz on
    valhalla130
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    Was there any threat of the USSR entering the war against Germany? Because the basic narrative is that Germany did it out of the blue, and that it was an idiotic thing to do.

    I mean, everyone knew that the two dictatorships were going to stab each other in the back (lots of political cartoons at the time showing the smiling with guns pointed at each other behind their backs) but I think people assumed that the USSR was next after the western front was finished.

    And seeing as Hitler liked to sack generals who failed/argued with him, natural selection by the end of the war was that the only generals left were the sycophantic yes men.
    Kind of, yeah? Like you said, both sides knew their non-aggression pact was a very temporary measure. The USSR, despite Stalin slaughtering half his officers and literally decimating his regular soldiers, was continuing to up their military production and conscription numbers. Germany was definitely the USSR's most existential threat so it'd be fairly logical for them to invade them once they thought themselves sufficiently militarily prepared, especially if Germany is still fighting in the Atlantic and North Africa.

    Also some other things: While Hitler was a dumbass his move to invade the USSR was, given the information he had, was not a terrible idea in general. The USSR's armed forces had accrued a very poor reputation after the Winter War. And to be fair, in the first year of the war against the USSR the Soviets took such absolutely horrific losses that almost any other nation would have surrendered. It's only in hindsight and the knowledge that Stalin had the capability and willingness to sacrifice every man woman and child in the USSR to obtain victory that the invasion seems idiotic.

    It's also worth noting that Germany's generals were not as good as history likes to portray them. They were super, super bad at long-term planning. A bunch of them also became insanely arrogant after their surprise victory over France. See, most of the German high command thought that attacking France and Britain was suicidal at the beginning of the war. Then, when they beat France, quickly and easily, they essentially started believing their own hype. They attributed their victories in the west to extreme tactical brilliance on their part when it was more extreme tactical negligence on the part of the Allies.

    Shadowhope
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    To go east was the entire point of the war

  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    Yeah, I may be off on this but I think the Caucus oil fields were identified pretty early as necessary to fuel the army.

    Plus Hitler just straight up despised the Bolsheviks.

    valhalla130Eddy
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Everyone knew that Hitler would eventually come to blows with Stalin. It's just that it was in both of their best interests to not push the matter while Germany was fighting literally everyone else.

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  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    The scale of the Eastern front is absolutely staggering to think of.

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    The USSR's armed forces had accrued a very poor reputation after the Winter War.
    The Winter War went terribly for the Soviets. Its mindblowing how well the Finns did and how embarrassing it was for the Soviets.

    MayabirdMagellvalhalla130Midnite
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    The scale of the Eastern front is absolutely staggering to think of.

    That's largely why Russia is so hard to invade. They can just keep retreating. Eventually you start to bleed manpower, equipment completely breaks down, and supply lines get stretched because you're advancing so far and so fast. Then the whole country turns into a frozen hellscape and you stall out.

    The fact Germany got as close to the Kremlin as they did is fairly impressive. The fact Russia was able to hold out long enough for the winter to hit and then adapt their tactics even more so. The Eastern front is pretty fascinating and a horrifying example of what happens when two regimes who are willing to needlessly sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives meet in battle.

    FencingsaxElvenshaesarukunvalhalla130ShadowhopeEddynever die
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    I've always liked this Da Vinci drawing of a mercenary captain

    CHMVgsI.jpg

    Like that is some wild lookin shit that dude is wearing, most of the plate mail in Game of Thrones looked like pots and pans

    wow this rules, this is some fuckin' Final Fantasy-ass shit and I love it

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  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    What was It Actually Like to Be a Court Jester in Medieval Times? 15:06

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  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    edited January 4
    The Legendary Black Samurai 12:13

    Peas on
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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Juggernut wrote: »
    I mentioned in the book threading I'm still reading Antony Beevor's ww2 histories.

    One thing I don't think is mentioned a whole lot in the more mainstream WW2 narrative is just how bad at war Hitler was, and how, more or less, the war was virtually unwinnable for Germany.

    Like, holy shit he made so many ridiculous decisions that were very plainly awful from a tactical standpoint.

    I guess that's what happens when you put an egotistical, puerile psychopath into office who has a deep seated mistrust and contempt of established institutions and people who aren't slavering, rat fucking sycophants loyal only to them. Sounds... weirdly familiar.

    Oh hey, I’ve also been working my way through these. I started with Beevor’s book on the fall of Berlin, then Stalingrad, and now I’m reading his book on WWII as a whole. Everything he writes about the Eastern Front basically reads as “there were a lot of regular people doing terrible things on both sides, while supremely terrible people at the top of each regime making decisions horrible for moral and/or strategic reasons, and holy shit it’s amazing what capacity for suffering human beings can endure before they die and have their body tossed into an unmarked grave.”

    And yeah, boy, do the similarities between Hitler and certain modern day politicians come through strong.

    Wash your hands like you've been cutting habaneros and need to put in your contacts.
    JuggernutTynnanchrishallett83Eddy
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    He also does not particularly like Montgomery.

    TynnanEddy
  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    I’m working on his WW2 overall book and it’s a fascinating read. I appreciate getting a look inside the commanders’ and politicians’ heads as events proceed, rather than just hearing about such and such divisions moving to different places.

    Shadowhope
  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    Has anyone here read "Hitler and Stalin: Parallel Lives" by Alan Bullock? I read it back in the early 90s when it was first published and I found it fascinating how closely their lives mirrored each other.

  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Dan Carlin did a Hardcore History Addendum episode comparing Imperial and Nazi Germanys (Germanies?), specifically their armies, and it's really interesting how he breaks down all the issues directly caused by the fanaticism going on in WW2

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