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[Star Wars Thread] Solid... I’m going to say analysis?

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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The trick to understanding the force is to realize there is no such thing as a force user.

    Rey: its a power that jedi have that lets them control people and move rocks
    Luke: amazing. Everything in that sentence was wrong

    The jedi do not move rocks. The force moves rocks when a jedi knows the force needs rocks to be moved.

    You mean it controls your actions?

    Partially, but it also obeys your commands

    Te rock will not move without the jedi to tell the force to move it. But neither will it move if the force does not will the rock to move

    No thanks, that's lame. The Force has always been the collective id of the galaxy's life. It is not plot, or story, or what have you. That's some Stephen King self insert fiction.

    Its not an in universe explanation no. But that is what it is.

    Either way, the force cannot be the collective Id of the galaxy's life. Since the force is in all things, alive and dead.

    Where the Force is doesn't change what it is. It's right there in Obi Wan's speech. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. The Force is in every nook and cranny of the galaxy because life is in every nook and cranny of the galaxy. It absolutely is the collective id.

    Besides being the actual intent, it's just a more beautiful and moving idea, that life is all bound together and it creates something bigger than the individual. Plot power is silly freshman lit.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The trick to understanding the force is to realize there is no such thing as a force user.

    Rey: its a power that jedi have that lets them control people and move rocks
    Luke: amazing. Everything in that sentence was wrong

    The jedi do not move rocks. The force moves rocks when a jedi knows the force needs rocks to be moved.

    You mean it controls your actions?

    Partially, but it also obeys your commands

    Te rock will not move without the jedi to tell the force to move it. But neither will it move if the force does not will the rock to move

    No thanks, that's lame. The Force has always been the collective id of the galaxy's life. It is not plot, or story, or what have you. That's some Stephen King self insert fiction.

    Its not an in universe explanation no. But that is what it is.

    Either way, the force cannot be the collective Id of the galaxy's life. Since the force is in all things, alive and dead.

    Where the Force is doesn't change what it is. It's right there in Obi Wan's speech. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. The Force is in every nook and cranny of the galaxy because life is in every nook and cranny of the galaxy. It absolutely is the collective id.

    Besides being the actual intent, it's just a more beautiful and moving idea, that life is all bound together and it creates something bigger than the individual. Plot power is silly freshman lit.

    Plot Power may be "silly freshman lit" but its also very clearly the meta construction of what is going on. Lucas wrote a silly freshman lit story. Its what it is.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Couple big fucking tree spaceships set up on vines hundreds of thousands of kilometers long, fuckin wookie in a spacesuit hits a rope with an axe and crushes a star destroyer

    Broke as fuck in the style of the times. Gratitude is all that can return on your generosity.

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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The trick to understanding the force is to realize there is no such thing as a force user.

    Rey: its a power that jedi have that lets them control people and move rocks
    Luke: amazing. Everything in that sentence was wrong

    The jedi do not move rocks. The force moves rocks when a jedi knows the force needs rocks to be moved.

    You mean it controls your actions?

    Partially, but it also obeys your commands

    Te rock will not move without the jedi to tell the force to move it. But neither will it move if the force does not will the rock to move

    No thanks, that's lame. The Force has always been the collective id of the galaxy's life. It is not plot, or story, or what have you. That's some Stephen King self insert fiction.

    Its not an in universe explanation no. But that is what it is.

    Either way, the force cannot be the collective Id of the galaxy's life. Since the force is in all things, alive and dead.

    Where the Force is doesn't change what it is. It's right there in Obi Wan's speech. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. The Force is in every nook and cranny of the galaxy because life is in every nook and cranny of the galaxy. It absolutely is the collective id.

    Besides being the actual intent, it's just a more beautiful and moving idea, that life is all bound together and it creates something bigger than the individual. Plot power is silly freshman lit.

    Plot Power may be "silly freshman lit" but its also very clearly the meta construction of what is going on. Lucas wrote a silly freshman lit story. Its what it is.

    All stories are moved along with the plot's needs in mind. Why does Leia do x? is the same question as why did the Force will y? In both cases, a good story has internal reasons to explain the actions in the story. Pointing out the Force in particular as a writer's crutch doesn't make it any less unsatisfying.

  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    I don’t think of the First Order as “a new generation pining for the days of the Empire” at all. After the death of the Emperor and the destruction of the Death Star II, I imagine that it took some time for the Galaxy-spanning machinery of the Empire to give way to the New Republic. In lots of places there would be violent overthrow of the garrison or governor, some places that the Empire hadn’t yet gotten around to squeezing too hard would maybe have a more peaceful transition. In any event, surely any former Imperial officer or administrator who could manage it would just toss their uniform in a burn barrel, grab a duffel bag full of credits, and go incognito on the first transport to a new life in a different star system.
    The First Order are just the ones from that lot who really wanted to get the band back together, plus the kids they kidnapped and brainwashed out on the Rim.

    _
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  • Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza Ask me about 8bitdo RIP Iwata-sanRegistered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The trick to understanding the force is to realize there is no such thing as a force user.

    Rey: its a power that jedi have that lets them control people and move rocks
    Luke: amazing. Everything in that sentence was wrong

    The jedi do not move rocks. The force moves rocks when a jedi knows the force needs rocks to be moved.

    This is 100% correct.
    I agree, and I also hear this kind of argument in all sorts of narratives all the damn time.

    Well maybe thats because it's literally George Lucas's argument (which means it might as well be Gods as far as the SW universe is concerned), and has been the basis behind The Force and the backbone of everything that's happened from the very start. There's no leveling up in Star Wars. People who are powerful in The Force are powerful because The Force wants them to be to achieve balance. If a Jedi needs to suddenly be able to lift a bunch of rocks to achieve an outcome that The Force needs to happen, then it will make that happen. If a Force User needs to suddenly be able to use mind tricks on a guard to create the outcome that The Force needs, it will do that. if a Force User needs to be able to shoot some missiles down a tiny port opening and around a 90 degree corner despite just getting their first lightsaber an hour and a half before, The Force will do that. If they decide to go evil of their own free will then The Force creates those who wont to balance it out. It doesn't eliminate agency, but it is the guiding force of the universe and to deny that simple truth is to simply deny what the very essence of Star Wars is. If you don't like it that's fine, but it is what it is. This is not a thing that is up for debate.


    Funny how people want to use GL as this beacon for hate against the Disney acquisition and yet want to disregard anything he says that doesn't fit with their narrative, because I hear this all the time.


    edit: I added a bunch of stuff and fixed some syntax.

    edit2: Training doesn't make you more powerful in The Force either, it simply unlocks more of the potential you already have and allows you to learn how to control it.

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  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I mean, I think the problem is that they are in literally the same situation they were in 40 years ago. Nothing is particularly different.

    It's not like we don't rehash the same few wars in real life every couple of decades...

    "Boomer generation creates fertile ground for the nightmares their parents generation saw rise, which the next generations have to then put down" is pretty spot on for cultural parallels and commentary.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I mean, I think the problem is that they are in literally the same situation they were in 40 years ago. Nothing is particularly different.

    It's not like we don't rehash the same few wars in real life every couple of decades...

    "Boomer generation creates fertile ground for the nightmares their parents generation saw rise, which the next generations have to then put down" is pretty spot on for cultural parallels and commentary.

    And if we actually saw any of that, then my objection to it would be much different.

    But it's pretty clear that isn't the direction Abrams was going.

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I mean, I think the problem is that they are in literally the same situation they were in 40 years ago. Nothing is particularly different.

    It's not like we don't rehash the same few wars in real life every couple of decades...

    "Boomer generation creates fertile ground for the nightmares their parents generation saw rise, which the next generations have to then put down" is pretty spot on for cultural parallels and commentary.

    And if we actually saw any of that, then my objection to it would be much different.

    But it's pretty clear that isn't the direction Abrams was going.

    oh no Abrams at best stumbles into that.



    Abrams just really really wants to play with his Star Wars action figures in a sandbox worth a few hundred million dollars.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Finishing up Star Wars Rebels after picking up Disney+ and gotta say, last season is kinda dull up til episode 9.

  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Kamar wrote: »
    Almost every EU story is completely revamping a character who had zero character development (Boba Fett) or trotting out fan favorite characters to say they had no idea they were being cloned/their children turned to the dark side/the emperor never really died/Luke learning some bogus new Force power late game. People always say the EU needs to be saved, but it's like the 30% percent with actually new, well written characters (or blank canvases that they were able to breathe life into like the bounty hunters) that's salvageable.. and even that might be a generous percentage.

    Also it's a bit much to expect the heroes of the OT to exist only as the same exact person they were 40 years ago, never growing or changing, just staying the same with the same motivations and never having any off-screen conflict or character development. Just because a character encounters hardship in their arc, does not make them abject failures but simply more human characters... Because humans fail, even ones with space magic. And nevermind the fact there's probably at least 20 solid years of Han, Luke and Leia having standard Star Warsian adventure before the fall of Luke's new Jedi summer camp.

    By EU I meant the new non-mainline content, which is more hit than miss IMO.

    And I don't expect the characters to live blissful happily ever after lives, but they all got it HARD in ways that betray the character development they ended the OT on. I saw this on reddit earlier, and other than a bit of whining about Rey's competence I felt it hard. https://i.redd.it/60rnsq7x9k141.jpg

    The mainline Star Wars movies, as it stands, are actually quite negative in tone; evil consistently wins and every gain by the heroes is shortlived in the face of personal flaws, societal flaws, and the unending supply of evil in the galaxy. Which almost makes sense; there are a lot of people who think Star Wars is at its best when the villains are crushing the heroes, i.e. Empire for the OT and Revenge for the PT.

    Some notes about all this. People really like to shit on the Disney canon, raging about how the EU was much better. What's interesting is how similar they actually are, and how people either don't know anything about the EU and are talking out of their asses or are blind to just how similar they are.

    The Fate of the Jedi EU
    Luke decides to train new Jedi. He immediately fails and one of his first class of recruits goes full on Evil. MILLIONS of people are wiped out when the now-evil trainee, Kyp Durron, uses a superweapon based on a personal grudge. Kyp even kills a member of his own family trying to get his way, which he immediately regrets. Luke takes this failure in stride (??) and retrains Kyp to the Light side. Everyone is basically fine with what happened and both Kyp and Luke are accepted as assets to the galaxy, still.

    The Fate of the Jedi Disney
    Luke decides to train new Jedi. He immediately fails and one of his first class of recruits goes full on Evil. MILLIONS of people are wiped out when the now-evil trainee, Ben Solo, assists in using a superweapon based on hatred of the current world order. Ben even kills a member of his own family trying to master his dark side powers, which he immediately regrets. Luke is DEVASTATED by his failure and gives up on dreams of restarting the Jedi, until an apprentice too interesting to turn away arrives to change his mind.

    I have to give this one to Disney. The fallout to this storyline is basically incoherent in the EU.

    The Solo family EU
    The Solo family has three kids. The eldest male seems destined for great things, but instead tips over to the Dark Side. Despite friends and family trying to turn him back, he seems hell bent on achieving his goals through any means, even the Dark side. He goes so far as to kill an immediate family member, his aunt. In the end, he's killed by his sister.

    The Solo family Disney
    The Solo family has one kid. Their son seems destined for great things, but instead tips over to the Dark Side. Despite friends and family trying to turn him back, he seems hell bent on achieving his goals through any means, even the Dark side. He goes so far as to kill an immediate family member, his father. In the end, ??? (Seems extremely likely that he will die though.)

    We'll have to see the ending of the Sequel Trilogy to see how this turns out, but uh... they're really similar so far.

    Here's a couple of bonus rounds, for funsies.

    Luke regresses EU
    Despite refusing the pull of the Dark Side previously, Luke is tempted again, in Dark Empire. He self justifies taking a step towards the Dark Side in order to save the galaxy (by stopping the plans of the Reborn Emperor before they can come to fruition), but this is a HUGE mistake. He eventually comes back to the Light, but still regrets the mistakes he made and the people that were hurt because of it.

    Luke regresses Disney
    Despite refusing the pull of the Dark Side previously, Luke is tempted again, in the flashbacks of The Last Jedi. He self justifies taking a step towards the Dark Side in order to save the galaxy (by stopping the plans of Snoke to turn Ben before they can come to fruition), but this is a HUGE mistake. He eventually comes back to the Light, but still regrets the mistakes he made and the people that were hurt because of it.

    It is LAUGHABLE that people shit on TLJ for Luke's failure when the EU had Luke straight up turn to the Dark Side, use the Dark Side to hurt people, obey the commands of the Emperor, duel his sister, etc.

    Han regresses EU
    Han loses someone he loves (Chewbacca) and cannot handle it. He abandons the remaining members of his family and goes back to gambling, drinking, smuggling, and basically being a dirtbag. He meets someone new (Droma) who makes him think about his responsibilities again, though. Han once again feels the call to heroism and comes back to help his family and try to save the galaxy, once again.

    Han regresses Disney
    Han loses someone he loves (Ben) and cannot handle it. He abandons the remaining members of his family and goes back to gambling, drinking, smuggling, and basically being a dirtbag. He meets someone new (Rey) who makes him think about his responsibilities again, though. Han once again feels the call to heroism and comes back to help his family and try to save the galaxy, once again.

    This is like... exactly the same.

    The Rebel heroes have some sad stuff happen EU
    Han and Leia fall in love and have kids. Yay! But the Reborn Emperor tries to possess their third kid in the womb! YIKES! They manage to escape that fate, but DAMN. At least the kids are alive and healthy now. But then those kids are kidnapped again and again. They manage to save them each time but it is the most harrowing parentage imaginable. Leia's life work with the government has mixed results, since one of her chief political rivals takes power over the government and stymies her best efforts to improve the galaxy. Still, they survived... but oh damn, the galaxy is at war again, just after the Empire was done for good. In the opening shot of the war, Chewbacca dies and Han collapses (see above), while making sure to make his youngest son understand that he BLAMES HIM for it, specifically. This gives the youngest an incredible complex about failing his friends, that he resolves by dying in battle, the overuse of the Force killing him in the end. After the war, trauma gathered throughout the experience turns the eldest to the Dark Side (see above). His sister kills him.

    Luke tries to raise the Jedi up, and pooches it (see above). He falls to the Dark Side for a bit and has to fight his own clone. Later, he falls in love and gets married and has a child of his own. His wife is then murdered by his nephew and his son has MANY close calls with the Dark side himself. Later, the Jedi order that survived that earlier stuff becomes an enemy of the government, hated and feared by the galaxy at large.
    Cheerful stuff for sure! I can see why the dour sequel trilogy got people down, considering what a fun time the characters had of it in the EU. Also, the Solo's youngest's death was essentially the same as Luke's in Disney.

    shoeboxjeddy on
  • CristovalCristoval Registered User regular
    @shoeboxjeddy after making this post.


    Thank you for all your hard work today.


  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    I don't think I've ever seen anyone here deride the ST and then talk about how the EU was so much better, so this seems a pretty heavily strawman thing to me. The EU was a wreck, which is why some people hated Disney for ditching it, some people loved them for it, and most people went "yeah, that's understandable".
    Additionally, Luke's initial failure in the EU led to a concrete rebirth of the Jedi, who then proceeded to save the galaxy from the likes of the (ugh) Yuuzhan Vong. So the whole "he failed and bailed" thing doesn't apply. In the EU, Han doesn't just up and abandon his family when his son dies, he just stops playing at general and goes down to operating at a more personal level until eventually returning after working through the loss of his son. And throughout all this other stuff, the New Republic is building and growing in stability, order, and reach, instead of apparently just falling into several decades of helpless flailing despite the galaxy formerly being at large-scale peace for thousands of years. So there are some pretty huge, massive differences.
    "But the EU had it dumb too" is a lousy defense for the ST also doing dumb things. In fact, I'm all but certain that at some point I've made the exact criticism that ditching the EU was a big waste if the likes of the ST just replaces it with the same kind of crap but from new sources. The point is to have the space to actually do something better, not just rehash things in slightly different dumb ways.

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    I don't think I've ever seen anyone here deride the ST and then talk about how the EU was so much better, so this seems a pretty heavily strawman thing to me. The EU was a wreck, which is why some people hated Disney for ditching it, some people loved them for it, and most people went "yeah, that's understandable".
    Additionally, Luke's initial failure in the EU led to a concrete rebirth of the Jedi, who then proceeded to save the galaxy from the likes of the (ugh) Yuuzhan Vong. So the whole "he failed and bailed" thing doesn't apply. In the EU, Han doesn't just up and abandon his family when his son dies, he just stops playing at general and goes down to operating at a more personal level until eventually returning after working through the loss of his son. And throughout all this other stuff, the New Republic is building and growing in stability, order, and reach, instead of apparently just falling into several decades of helpless flailing despite the galaxy formerly being at large-scale peace for thousands of years. So there are some pretty huge, massive differences.
    "But the EU had it dumb too" is a lousy defense for the ST also doing dumb things. In fact, I'm all but certain that at some point I've made the exact criticism that ditching the EU was a big waste if the likes of the ST just replaces it with the same kind of crap but from new sources. The point is to have the space to actually do something better, not just rehash things in slightly different dumb ways.

    So the Jedi are rebirthed in the EU despite there being objective reasons why this shouldn't happen. There are SO MANY Dark Jedi turns in the EU, but until 2 series AFTER the NJO books, the galaxy just kind of shrugs and allows this. Kyp Durron is a legit reason for a new Jedi purge, yet nobody even mentions it. The failed and bailed thing would be a natural consequence of what happened in the Jedi Order Trilogy. Instead, it's just a dumb happy ending where the solar system that was wiped off the map is completely forgiven and forgotten by everyone. Also, people are mad about the new Empire, aka the First Order. The EU had this happen MULTIPLE times. Grand Admiral Thrawn has a reborn Empire that pushes the galaxy back on its heels as does the Reborn Emperor. New super weapons are EXTREMELY common in the EU, they take your Starkiller Base and raise you the Darksaber, the Galaxy Gun, the Sun Crusher, and so on.

    Regarding Han, he has his arc after Chewie dies, not after Anakin dies. You're misrepresenting there. He doesn't re-regress after Anakin's death because that would have been a bit much for the series to take, so soon after the previous instance of character drama.

    Regarding the New Republic... nah. Days after it starts, they have to deal with invaders from another system in Truce at Bakura. Then they fight a much longer and more drawn out conflict with the Imperial Remnants, which is people's complaints about the First Order x100. Then, another invading force in the NJO, which utterly destroys many planets, including their capital (HMMM that sounds familiar). Much of the peace time gains are completely lost and the New Republic actually ends completely during the war (HMMMMM familiar again). They reform along with the people who have joined them from the Imperial Remnant as the "Galactic Alliance", which is clearly a reference to the Rebel naming structure (you get what I'm getting at here, I HOPE).

    I will say that being disappointed in the Disney stuff AND the EU is a totally fair position. You don't have to like anything. It's just this cherry picking from the EU like it was perfect + ignoring the Disney stuff that's clearly a new take on the exact same story ideas (or a direct homage TO those stories) + the taking the worst possible interpretation of Disney interviews that drives me nutty. Somebody said (in this thread? forgive me if that's wrong) that you could pull their Zahn Thrawn books from their cold, dead hands.... Zahn wrote a brand new Thrawn trilogy for Disney! Clearly his work was extremely valued!

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    And anecdotally, I've seen a hell of a lot more of "why did they get rid of the EU if they're just gonna do the dumb stuff again?" than I have of people lauding the EU as anything but an impressive trainwreck of pulp scifi. I really can't recall anybody holding up the EU as some paragon of better material, just that the EU has things that are better than the ST's horribly cliche and tired grimdark angle. All that stuff you're listing are really really good reasons for why ditching the EU was a good idea and there's mountains of material for that, but then the ST just rolls up and goes "hold my space beer".
    The exception possibly being the Rogue Squadron series, because I unreservedly enjoyed the hell out of that (largely because it didn't involve things like superweapons and Jedi). I would personally run a lawnmower over a lot of porgs to get the Rogue Squadron series done live action, particularly if it caps off with the glorious Starfighters of Adumar.

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    And anecdotally, I've seen a hell of a lot more of "why did they get rid of the EU if they're just gonna do the dumb stuff again?" than I have of people lauding the EU as anything but an impressive trainwreck of pulp scifi. I really can't recall anybody holding up the EU as some paragon of better material, just that the EU has things that are better than the ST's horribly cliche and tired grimdark angle. All that stuff you're listing are really really good reasons for why ditching the EU was a good idea and there's mountains of material for that, but then the ST just rolls up and goes "hold my space beer".
    The exception possibly being the Rogue Squadron series, because I unreservedly enjoyed the hell out of that (largely because it didn't involve things like superweapons and Jedi). I would personally run a lawnmower over a lot of porgs to get the Rogue Squadron series done live action, particularly if it caps off with the glorious Starfighters of Adumar.

    I love Rogue Squadron to death. Unfortunately, Allston died after publishing the extremely late followup to Starfighters of Adumar, so he can't come back to do some Disney books like Zahn did. I wonder what Stackpole has been up to and if his writing has improved or gotten worse since then...

    shoeboxjeddy on
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I never got into any of the EU stuff but reading about it secondhand, along with the corresponding discussions, is the closest I think I will ever get to a mushroom-fueled anthropological study of the ancient myths of a forgotten tribe that wiped itself out in a civil war.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    And anecdotally, I've seen a hell of a lot more of "why did they get rid of the EU if they're just gonna do the dumb stuff again?" than I have of people lauding the EU as anything but an impressive trainwreck of pulp scifi. I really can't recall anybody holding up the EU as some paragon of better material, just that the EU has things that are better than the ST's horribly cliche and tired grimdark angle. All that stuff you're listing are really really good reasons for why ditching the EU was a good idea and there's mountains of material for that, but then the ST just rolls up and goes "hold my space beer".
    The exception possibly being the Rogue Squadron series, because I unreservedly enjoyed the hell out of that (largely because it didn't involve things like superweapons and Jedi). I would personally run a lawnmower over a lot of porgs to get the Rogue Squadron series done live action, particularly if it caps off with the glorious Starfighters of Adumar.

    I love Rogue Squadron to death. Unfortunately, Allston died after publishing the extremely late followup to Starfighters of Adumar, so he can't come back to do some Disney books like Zahn did. I wonder what Stackpole has been up to and if his writing has improved or gotten worse since then...

    *waps on the nose*

    No Corran Horn.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    The EU was wonderful for a while. 1) It was all we had as Star Wars nerds and 2) The Thrawn Trilogy was legit amazing. Unfortunately, the EU was mostly shit after that, but I devoured each and everybook. Finally faltering somewhere before the Yuzhann Vong stuff even though I still went back and read most of it. (For the record, I adored the Republic Commando stuff too)

    But very much like the PT, it was full of great ideas fouled by poor execution.

  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    I remember the EU fondly because it was the 90s, there wasn't much else Star Wars to consume, and I was a hapless kid. Going back now, nearly all the books are either misogynistic trash or middling-level mass-market sci-fi. But, man. I loved those X-wing books as a kid and now, going back, the author was a real prick when it came to women.

  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I rewatched TPM last night and oh my god it's so bad. If you want to gain an appreciation for the ST, go back and watch TPM. Bad acting, bad direction, bad writing, it's a triple threat! I could at least tolerate it if they cut out all the shoehorned in silly noises, slapstick humor, and needless Jar Jar reaction shots. It's insipid, toddler-pandering and stupid at best.

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  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Okay it did take a while to ramp up but I'm cruising through the rest of Rebels and god damn the second half of the season is intense.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    The Vong stuff was pretty terrible with some good character moments. It also took the EU from "nobody important ever dies" to "we're gonna kill somebody important at least twice a book from now on", which got really fucking old in a hurry. The quitting point for me was Jacen going Dark Side because it was so damned forced, but everybody just goes along with it even after he starts murdering officers Vader-style and one-upping Empire atrocities. The galaxy is still in the throes of putting itself together after the last couple of Dark Side jerks fucked it up, you'd have mountains of people in the government going "another Force-using leader? No fucking way."

    But the EU only got above pulp scifi grade on very rare occasion. It was mostly propped up by being Star Wars during a long stretch where there wasn't anything new for Star Wars.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    And anecdotally, I've seen a hell of a lot more of "why did they get rid of the EU if they're just gonna do the dumb stuff again?" than I have of people lauding the EU as anything but an impressive trainwreck of pulp scifi. I really can't recall anybody holding up the EU as some paragon of better material, just that the EU has things that are better than the ST's horribly cliche and tired grimdark angle. All that stuff you're listing are really really good reasons for why ditching the EU was a good idea and there's mountains of material for that, but then the ST just rolls up and goes "hold my space beer".
    The exception possibly being the Rogue Squadron series, because I unreservedly enjoyed the hell out of that (largely because it didn't involve things like superweapons and Jedi). I would personally run a lawnmower over a lot of porgs to get the Rogue Squadron series done live action, particularly if it caps off with the glorious Starfighters of Adumar.

    I love Rogue Squadron to death. Unfortunately, Allston died after publishing the extremely late followup to Starfighters of Adumar, so he can't come back to do some Disney books like Zahn did. I wonder what Stackpole has been up to and if his writing has improved or gotten worse since then...

    *waps on the nose*

    No Corran Horn.

    Man you are going to be dissapointed in Episode 9 when Rey is down and out and Poe Dameron steps up "You know Poe was what I called myself, but I was born CORRAN HORN!" And pulls out a triple bladed lightsaber

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Man you are going to be dissapointed in Episode 9 when Rey is down and out and Poe Dameron steps up "You know Poe was what I called myself, but I was born CORRAN HORN!" And pulls out a triple bladed lightsaber

    More blades is more better

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Man you are going to be dissapointed in Episode 9 when Rey is down and out and Poe Dameron steps up "You know Poe was what I called myself, but I was born CORRAN HORN!" And pulls out a triple bladed lightsaber

    More blades is more better

    Yes this exactly. Also he has a lightsaber penis in case of emergencies.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Man you are going to be dissapointed in Episode 9 when Rey is down and out and Poe Dameron steps up "You know Poe was what I called myself, but I was born CORRAN HORN!" And pulls out a triple bladed lightsaber

    More blades is more better

    Yes this exactly. Also he has a lightsaber penis in case of emergencies.

    You're joking.

    That was not a question, that was a demand.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Just reinstalled KOTOR 2 fuck yessssss

  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    RIP forever KoTOR 3

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    The exception possibly being the Rogue Squadron series, because I unreservedly enjoyed the hell out of that (largely because it didn't involve things like superweapons and Jedi).

    And then the video game was like lol world devastators

  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    If we’re talking/mourning KOTOR, I’ve got a question.

    Anakin and Mace are clearly Jedi Guardians.
    Obi-Wan and Yoda are clearly Jedi Consulars.

    Is Luke a Guardian, Sentinel, or Consular?

    Mancingtom on
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    RIP forever KoTOR 3

    I am fine with SWTOR being our de facto KOTOR 3. Setting aside a raid boss having a Tower of Hanoi mechanic and some questionable Revan usage, it had some entertaining stories to tell from the three classes I experienced at launch.

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    If we’re talking/mourning KOTOR, I’ve got a question.

    Anakin and Mace are clearly Jedi Guardians.
    Obi-Wan and Yoda are clearly Jedi Consulars.

    Is Luke a Guardian, Sentinel, or Consular?

    Some kind of homebrew multiclass

    Starts out weak but upper levels are sneakily OP as shit

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Force Adept / Couneor or Force Adept / Sentinel /Counselor

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  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Kana wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    If we’re talking/mourning KOTOR, I’ve got a question.

    Anakin and Mace are clearly Jedi Guardians.
    Obi-Wan and Yoda are clearly Jedi Consulars.

    Is Luke a Guardian, Sentinel, or Consular?

    Some kind of homebrew multiclass

    Starts out weak but upper levels are sneakily OP as shit

    FFG system probably works out best for Luke.
    Because Luke probably works out best as some kind of Starfighter Ace from Force and Destiny. Or the Pilot class from Rebellion. And then just dump a metric fuckton of XP on him. So he can just snatch up powers and abilities that he wants to.
    KOTOR was a fun system, but very inflexible.
    If you wanted to make Luke in it, you'd probably do what I did. Scout for 4 levels, Jedi Guardian for 16. Gets you 2 levels of implant, enough feats to fill out several combat trees, you can get dueling and deflection up to master and then just waltz through opfor.

    GiantGeek2020 on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    If we’re talking/mourning KOTOR, I’ve got a question.

    Anakin and Mace are clearly Jedi Guardians.
    Obi-Wan and Yoda are clearly Jedi Consulars.

    Is Luke a Guardian, Sentinel, or Consular?

    Luke is an Ace Pilot.

  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    Crossposting this from the Fallen Order thread:

    The way some of the purge stuff was handled in the this game got me thinking that a Star Wars horror movie could be a neat thing. I just never really considered how horrifying the purge would've been for the Jedi - particularly the padawans and younglings. This game did a good job of conveying how scary it would be to have a bunch of your besties suddenly turn into blood-thirsty murderers.

  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I dunno them younglings in them movies never seemed very switched on, I think they were doped up on midichlorians and barely noticed getting murdered

    Broke as fuck in the style of the times. Gratitude is all that can return on your generosity.

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  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Edit whoops this isn't the Madno thread.

    Karoz on
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    A Rogue Squadron series is literally all l ever wanted

    Dongs Galore on
This discussion has been closed.