Were Zelda 2 to be remade, it would need the Resident Evil 2 treatment rather than the Link's Awakening treatment
Nintendo will of course never do that; given this, Zelda 2 should remain a weird, janky, frustrating NES game
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
remake Zelda 2 but it's a Quake clone
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
Zelda 2 does a lot of cool shit and it's a really neat iteration on the first game
but it's also held back by the hardware and, yeah, lack of experience designing games
imo the biggest problem, other than the punishing difficulty, is the same one that the original Metroid had, which was that rooms with the same tileset were basically impossible to tell apart, and the decision not to have an in-game dungeon map is pretty indefensible because of that
ultimately I wouldn't say it holds up well, not in any absolute sense, but I would say that I'd rather play it than damn near any of its contemporaries
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
I've never gotten further than two dungeons deep on Zelda 2 and I don't suspect I'll ever have occasion to. I've played a lot of NES games, including ones older and younger, and I don't think Adventure of Link compares well to contemporaneous texts. It tries to do too much, between the RPG elements and the punishing platforming and the combat that feels arbitrary at first blush and the exploration being like its predecessor only everything takes 5 times longer to do or check or travel between
It's a game that is overshadowed by its forebear and its successor, and rightfully so. I want to like it--hell I want desperately to like it--but it is a thorny, stand-offish game that doesn't realize when its reach is exceeding its grasp.
I would very much like a good Zelda platformer, though. Including one with good RPG elements. Let an indie studio handle that; have them make a game that's like Adventure of Link, only with better signposting and better combat and better platforming, and I think it could be a real gem
Were Zelda 2 to be remade, it would need the Resident Evil 2 treatment rather than the Link's Awakening treatment
Nintendo will of course never do that; given this, Zelda 2 should remain a weird, janky, frustrating NES game
hmmmm I dunno
I think the more apt comparison is Metroid: Zero Mission, and I don't think that's impossible
You know, that is pretty apt, I had forgotten about Zero Mission (though that was 15 years ago and Nintendo's never really done anything like it since).
Still, take that central thesis, and you're left with a problem. Zero Mission was, "What if the original Metroid played like Super?" RE2Make was, "What if RE2 played like a scarier RE4?" We're left with a question: what would Adventure of Link look like? It would be a new game, more or less. I just don't know that we could expect that out of the team, especially since Zelda doesn't have a Sakamoto who's obsessed with bringing the lore of the series in line
Wyborn on
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
yes that is fair
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Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
Remake Zelda 2 and get the team behind Guilty Gear Xrd/DBZF
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Zelda 1 is fine and playable still.
Zelda 2 is a fuckin nightmare.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I just can't really do games as old as Zelda 1 or 2
I wasn't raised on them and it's hard for me to navigate them and stay engaged
Same, I appreciate the games for what they are and what they became but dang, they're tough to play now.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
zelda???? more like "no thank you i don't have any particular desire to play that in 2019"!!!!
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Zelda 1 was designed so that you'd make a map with people and talk about the secrets you found.
So like, using a guide that tells you which tiles to do what with is actually doing the game a solid.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I actually feel like Zelda 2 is more of a "necessary"* experience for a Zelda fan than Zelda 1, because it's one of the most unique of the whole series. A majority of the series is either Zelda 1-esque or Ocarina of Time-esque. Zelda 2 kind of sits on its own.
I'm definitely in the "Zelda 2 is pretty damned awesome" camp and it is of my favorites of the series, though, so take my opinion for what it is.
*I mean, nothing is necessary here, but if someone asked me if it was better to play Zelda 1 or Zelda 2, I would argue Zelda 2, since Zelda 1's feel and formula has been approximated and improved upon so many times already.
Zelda 1 is just as weird as Zelda 2 is in hindsight, it's just Zelda 2 has more of mechanical barrier and is way more visually distinct from the rest of the series
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
If people want a somewhat more friendly version of Zelda 1 they should look into BS Zelda no Densetsu for the SNES.
BS stands for Broadcast Satellite. The game was for a weird add on for the SNES that downloaded things off of radio signals, and the game had events that triggered off broadcasts that went out at certain times.
A couple years ago folk managed to compile the thing, translate it, and release it as a ROM, and made the broadcast events trigger from dungeon completions.
IDK how hard it is to find now a days since Nintendo went scorched earth on the emulation scene.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
I played a version of that way back in...I'm not sure, like 1999 or 2000, somewhere in there
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Zelda 1 is just as weird as Zelda 2 is in hindsight, it's just Zelda 2 has more of mechanical barrier and is way more visually distinct from the rest of the series
Eh, Zelda 2 has a lot of really esoteric secrets that aren't intuitive and way more "mandatory item X to progress" and ways to accidentally get fucked. And also the fact that you have to go through Death Fucking Mountain at the start of the game is a hamper on it.
But really the issue to me is that it uses way to many bad systems (XP, magic, stats) that were incredibly unrefined on the NES compared to Zelda 1, which has very few elements that while unrefined can still work well because the core is still good.
EDIT: If anything Zelda 2 is more of a metroidvania prototype than anything else.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
Yeah I think a modern Zelda 2 would end up being pretty similar to a Metroid game. Or Castlevania more like.
If people want a somewhat more friendly version of Zelda 1 they should look into BS Zelda no Densetsu for the SNES.
BS stands for Broadcast Satellite. The game was for a weird add on for the SNES that downloaded things off of radio signals, and the game had events that triggered off broadcasts that went out at certain times.
BS Zelda was broadcast in I believe four separate parts, each part during one week increments within a period of a month for a total of about four months between late 1995 and early 1997, not ever as a single full game. The Satellaview only kept a broadcast in memory until the next one, which meant that finding a Satellaview with a specific broadcast in memory that hadn't been overwritten by the next week's broadcast was exceedingly rare(it basically had to have never been turned used again since that broadcast), moreso when you're trying to track down specific parts of four total. Not going to really go into this for obvious reasons but as you can probably guess, many years of hunting by retro hounds eventually turned up all four broadcasts in some form or another and the game was pieced together into a full experience. It's basically a full SNES quality remake of the original game and is really quite gorgeous for what it is, it's a shame we never got it.
If people want a somewhat more friendly version of Zelda 1 they should look into BS Zelda no Densetsu for the SNES.
BS stands for Broadcast Satellite. The game was for a weird add on for the SNES that downloaded things off of radio signals, and the game had events that triggered off broadcasts that went out at certain times.
A couple years ago folk managed to compile the thing, translate it, and release it as a ROM, and made the broadcast events trigger from dungeon completions.
IDK how hard it is to find now a days since Nintendo went scorched earth on the emulation scene.
Zelda 1 is approachable in a way that Zelda 2 is not, he says as a person who made an overworld map for Zelda 1 by hand when he first played it about a decade ago on the Wii Virtual Console. The dungeons don't necessarily make intuitive sense, but they are about 95% of the time full of problems that you can solve by staring at the map and looking for gaps in it (the remaining 5% mostly takes place in Death Mountain, which stumped me a little when I replayed the game last year)
Puerile is the right word; it’s not so much the sexualization so much as the dialogue sounds better suited to 15 year olds, not characters in their 30s.
...I retract my statement
Also I guess whatever the issue was with my Switch it wasn’t easy to fix, because they just sent back a whole new one.
Every Zelda game from 1991 until 2015 were different variations on the formula set down by Zelda 3
Zelda 19 was, finally, a sequel to Zelda 1; we have yet to get a sequel to Zelda 2, and I suspect that we never will
What
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Zelda 1 is approachable in a way that Zelda 2 is not, he says as a person who made an overworld map for Zelda 1 by hand when he first played it about a decade ago on the Wii Virtual Console. The dungeons don't necessarily make intuitive sense, but they are about 95% of the time full of problems that you can solve by staring at the map and looking for gaps in it (the remaining 5% mostly takes place in Death Mountain, which stumped me a little when I replayed the game last year)
Skull Rock is a fucking terrible map. I got through to ganon once and then got through to the silver arrow another time, then I gave up on getting back to ganon because despite having the entire map explored I couldn't figure out where the fuck to go
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Zelda 1 is approachable in a way that Zelda 2 is not, he says as a person who made an overworld map for Zelda 1 by hand when he first played it about a decade ago on the Wii Virtual Console. The dungeons don't necessarily make intuitive sense, but they are about 95% of the time full of problems that you can solve by staring at the map and looking for gaps in it (the remaining 5% mostly takes place in Death Mountain, which stumped me a little when I replayed the game last year)
The best possible Zelda 1 tutorial for the Modern Gamer is Binding of Isaac, if it's made explicitly clear that "no, everything in Isaac is from this game. Everything."
Reading this post I thought "oh, so like secret rooms in Isa--oh I'm fuckin' idiot"
The Escape Goat on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Binding of Issac is a nice Zelda Ruglike yesh
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Posts
Nintendo will of course never do that; given this, Zelda 2 should remain a weird, janky, frustrating NES game
but it's also held back by the hardware and, yeah, lack of experience designing games
imo the biggest problem, other than the punishing difficulty, is the same one that the original Metroid had, which was that rooms with the same tileset were basically impossible to tell apart, and the decision not to have an in-game dungeon map is pretty indefensible because of that
ultimately I wouldn't say it holds up well, not in any absolute sense, but I would say that I'd rather play it than damn near any of its contemporaries
hmmmm I dunno
I think the more apt comparison is Metroid: Zero Mission, and I don't think that's impossible
It's a game that is overshadowed by its forebear and its successor, and rightfully so. I want to like it--hell I want desperately to like it--but it is a thorny, stand-offish game that doesn't realize when its reach is exceeding its grasp.
I would very much like a good Zelda platformer, though. Including one with good RPG elements. Let an indie studio handle that; have them make a game that's like Adventure of Link, only with better signposting and better combat and better platforming, and I think it could be a real gem
You know, that is pretty apt, I had forgotten about Zero Mission (though that was 15 years ago and Nintendo's never really done anything like it since).
Still, take that central thesis, and you're left with a problem. Zero Mission was, "What if the original Metroid played like Super?" RE2Make was, "What if RE2 played like a scarier RE4?" We're left with a question: what would Adventure of Link look like? It would be a new game, more or less. I just don't know that we could expect that out of the team, especially since Zelda doesn't have a Sakamoto who's obsessed with bringing the lore of the series in line
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
I wasn't raised on them and it's hard for me to navigate them and stay engaged
Zelda 2 is a fuckin nightmare.
Same, I appreciate the games for what they are and what they became but dang, they're tough to play now.
Zelda one is perfectly fine! It's got very simple controls and simple goals and isn't like, turbo bullshit like Zelda 2.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Edit plus all the hidden shit you have to find with no actual clues
I fucking love that game and would do anything for a sequel
My caveat is you absolutely must use a wallthrough
I also cannot play those games and get any sort of enjoyment out of them but I understand how important they are
But like
There are so many games to play that build off what Zelda started I don’t feel the need to do so
It’s like how I don’t care much about Seinfeld despite it being the inspiration for a lot of modern comedy
So like, using a guide that tells you which tiles to do what with is actually doing the game a solid.
I'm definitely in the "Zelda 2 is pretty damned awesome" camp and it is of my favorites of the series, though, so take my opinion for what it is.
*I mean, nothing is necessary here, but if someone asked me if it was better to play Zelda 1 or Zelda 2, I would argue Zelda 2, since Zelda 1's feel and formula has been approximated and improved upon so many times already.
this, but OoT
BS stands for Broadcast Satellite. The game was for a weird add on for the SNES that downloaded things off of radio signals, and the game had events that triggered off broadcasts that went out at certain times.
A couple years ago folk managed to compile the thing, translate it, and release it as a ROM, and made the broadcast events trigger from dungeon completions.
IDK how hard it is to find now a days since Nintendo went scorched earth on the emulation scene.
Eh, Zelda 2 has a lot of really esoteric secrets that aren't intuitive and way more "mandatory item X to progress" and ways to accidentally get fucked. And also the fact that you have to go through Death Fucking Mountain at the start of the game is a hamper on it.
But really the issue to me is that it uses way to many bad systems (XP, magic, stats) that were incredibly unrefined on the NES compared to Zelda 1, which has very few elements that while unrefined can still work well because the core is still good.
EDIT: If anything Zelda 2 is more of a metroidvania prototype than anything else.
Which, uh, yes please.
BS Zelda was broadcast in I believe four separate parts, each part during one week increments within a period of a month for a total of about four months between late 1995 and early 1997, not ever as a single full game. The Satellaview only kept a broadcast in memory until the next one, which meant that finding a Satellaview with a specific broadcast in memory that hadn't been overwritten by the next week's broadcast was exceedingly rare(it basically had to have never been turned used again since that broadcast), moreso when you're trying to track down specific parts of four total. Not going to really go into this for obvious reasons but as you can probably guess, many years of hunting by retro hounds eventually turned up all four broadcasts in some form or another and the game was pieced together into a full experience. It's basically a full SNES quality remake of the original game and is really quite gorgeous for what it is, it's a shame we never got it.
Pretty sure it’s still real easy.
Zelda 19 was, finally, a sequel to Zelda 1; we have yet to get a sequel to Zelda 2, and I suspect that we never will
...I retract my statement
Also I guess whatever the issue was with my Switch it wasn’t easy to fix, because they just sent back a whole new one.
What
Which
Skull Rock is a fucking terrible map. I got through to ganon once and then got through to the silver arrow another time, then I gave up on getting back to ganon because despite having the entire map explored I couldn't figure out where the fuck to go
The best possible Zelda 1 tutorial for the Modern Gamer is Binding of Isaac, if it's made explicitly clear that "no, everything in Isaac is from this game. Everything."
Reading this post I thought "oh, so like secret rooms in Isa--oh I'm fuckin' idiot"
They're just counting the Zeldas as numbered sequels. So they're calling Botw as Zelda 19 (Link to the Past as Zelda 3, etc.)