like i'm serious when i say that i don't know how to talk about this stuff in a way that makes sense to the people in this thread, working within the intellectual paradigm we have around here. i think a lot of the basic assumptions that are made about how politics works in liberal-dominated spaces, such as this one, are fundamentally wrong, and that that's an effect of living under capitalism. i'm not trying to own anyone or call anyone out for being stupid
If we can't be reached through rational discourse--a bunch of left/progressive bubble forumers who agree on the direction if not the path--then how is any of this supposed to reach the general electorate?
i think you're a lot less ideologically aligned with us than you think you are
there's some surface similarity in terms of ostensible goals but little overlap in terms of our feelings toward say, the broader economic system, power structures etc
Okay, cool, but my ideological alignment to you doesn't matter. The point is that we're, throughout the history of this thread, advocating the same or at least close to the same ends regardless of our concepts of the causes.
If all I get is "well you're less aligned with us then you think" when I bring up the point that we're basically as aligned an audience that is out there, monumentally moreso than the general electorate, it doesn't really accomplish anything.
this is precisely what i mean
you believe that you are closer aligned to the left than the electorate in general. i do not believe this to be case. you are not more likely to be convinced by the left, you are less likely.
What are you basing that analysis on? It’s pretty safe to say that nearly everyone posting here are absolutely on the left side. I have no idea what criteria you are using if you think people here are not left of the general electorate.
like i'm serious when i say that i don't know how to talk about this stuff in a way that makes sense to the people in this thread, working within the intellectual paradigm we have around here. i think a lot of the basic assumptions that are made about how politics works in liberal-dominated spaces, such as this one, are fundamentally wrong, and that that's an effect of living under capitalism. i'm not trying to own anyone or call anyone out for being stupid
If we can't be reached through rational discourse--a bunch of left/progressive bubble forumers who agree on the direction if not the path--then how is any of this supposed to reach the general electorate?
i think you're a lot less ideologically aligned with us than you think you are
there's some surface similarity in terms of ostensible goals but little overlap in terms of our feelings toward say, the broader economic system, power structures etc
Okay, cool, but my ideological alignment to you doesn't matter. The point is that we're, throughout the history of this thread, advocating the same or at least close to the same ends regardless of our concepts of the causes.
If all I get is "well you're less aligned with us then you think" when I bring up the point that we're basically as aligned an audience that is out there, monumentally moreso than the general electorate, it doesn't really accomplish anything.
this is precisely what i mean
you believe that you are closer aligned to the left than the electorate in general. i do not believe this to be case. you are not more likely to be convinced by the left, you are less likely.
What are you basing that analysis on? It’s pretty safe to say that nearly everyone posting here are absolutely on the left side. I have no idea what criteria you are using if you think people here are not left of the general electorate.
He's saying left as in a distinct political ideology apart from liberalism, not a relative distance from center.
Breaking News: Senator Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after months of slumping poll numbers, a dramatic comedown after a promising start
NYT is a newspaper sometimes.
Harris has dropped out.
There was a lengthy NYT article only a few days ago about her campaign being a fucking mess behind the scenes. In light of that and a continued lack of any movement upward in the polls, this seemed inevitable.
Breaking News: Senator Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after months of slumping poll numbers, a dramatic comedown after a promising start
NYT is a newspaper sometimes.
Harris has dropped out.
I still like her overall, but when one wing of your party is offering a return to normalcy and another is offering dramatic, sweeping changes then the candidates peddling grand rhetoric paired with tepid reforms aren't going to find much of a place.
And if there is one for them, then splitting that party up four ways is going to leave everyone with little to show for it.
Hopefully her supporters find their way to Warren or Bernie or anyone besides Pete.
RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
Come Overwatch with meeeee
+29
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Yeah, it seems like Harris just didn't have a niche
like i'm serious when i say that i don't know how to talk about this stuff in a way that makes sense to the people in this thread, working within the intellectual paradigm we have around here. i think a lot of the basic assumptions that are made about how politics works in liberal-dominated spaces, such as this one, are fundamentally wrong, and that that's an effect of living under capitalism. i'm not trying to own anyone or call anyone out for being stupid
If we can't be reached through rational discourse--a bunch of left/progressive bubble forumers who agree on the direction if not the path--then how is any of this supposed to reach the general electorate?
i think you're a lot less ideologically aligned with us than you think you are
there's some surface similarity in terms of ostensible goals but little overlap in terms of our feelings toward say, the broader economic system, power structures etc
Okay, cool, but my ideological alignment to you doesn't matter. The point is that we're, throughout the history of this thread, advocating the same or at least close to the same ends regardless of our concepts of the causes.
If all I get is "well you're less aligned with us then you think" when I bring up the point that we're basically as aligned an audience that is out there, monumentally moreso than the general electorate, it doesn't really accomplish anything.
this is precisely what i mean
you believe that you are closer aligned to the left than the electorate in general. i do not believe this to be case. you are not more likely to be convinced by the left, you are less likely.
What are you basing that analysis on? It’s pretty safe to say that nearly everyone posting here are absolutely on the left side. I have no idea what criteria you are using if you think people here are not left of the general electorate.
He's saying left as in a distinct political ideology apart from liberalism, not a relative distance from center.
This is the most opaque way of summarizing that you're proposing some sort of gatekeeping to label anyone but Bernie supporters as unable to be 'left' and therefore by definition must be centrists.
Breaking News: Senator Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after months of slumping poll numbers, a dramatic comedown after a promising start
NYT is a newspaper sometimes.
Harris has dropped out.
I still like her overall, but when one wing of your party is offering a return to normalcy and another is offering dramatic, sweeping changes then the candidates peddling grand rhetoric paired with tepid reforms aren't going to find much of a place.
And if there is one for them, then splitting that party up four ways is going to leave everyone with little to show for it.
Hopefully her supporters find their way to Warren or Bernie or anyone besides Pete.
Harris supporters were most likely to also be considering Warren and Biden, per the Economist/YouGov. Klobuchar also surprisingly high here given her low standing overall. Still, Harris had only ~4% of the vote, so won't hugely shake things up.
Nate Silver does stats for things. And sometimes puts his foot in his mouth.
Probably to Warren or Biden. Not a huge shake up.
Though a few folks I know on twitter are singling surrender in the general already and crying that no one who is white/older can beat Trump.
Shame about Harris, I like her as a speaker, but her poll numbers and the way the media covered her basically killed any chance she had. I think her numbers were too low to really show much of a change in the race.
I highly doubt her followers would move to Buttigieg.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Breaking News: Senator Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after months of slumping poll numbers, a dramatic comedown after a promising start
NYT is a newspaper sometimes.
Harris has dropped out.
I still like her overall, but when one wing of your party is offering a return to normalcy and another is offering dramatic, sweeping changes then the candidates peddling grand rhetoric paired with tepid reforms aren't going to find much of a place.
And if there is one for them, then splitting that party up four ways is going to leave everyone with little to show for it.
Hopefully her supporters find their way to Warren or Bernie or anyone besides Pete.
I think it was less her positioning and more that Biden is sucked all the air out of the room in that lane and she never offered any real vision or executed any real strategy that would have changed that.
This is the most opaque way of summarizing that you're proposing some sort of gatekeeping to label anyone but Bernie supporters as unable to be 'left' and therefore by definition must be centrists.
We'd need to revive the socialism thread to discuss this further
Harris dropped before Gabbard, Steyer, Bloomberg, and Yang
I would not say this primary is acting to efficient choose the best candidates
In fact it seems as though the race started too early, and several candidates might have benefitted from coming in late
One of my colleagues pointed out this may be due to how the California ballot works. It is finalized either this week or next so it can be mailed in February. And she doesn't want a bad showing on that ballot for reasons that have to do with her current seat.
Breaking News: Senator Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after months of slumping poll numbers, a dramatic comedown after a promising start
NYT is a newspaper sometimes.
Harris has dropped out.
I think she would have been one of the stronger general election candidates and better potential Presidents in the field. Along with most of the field she went too hard trying to appeal to Bernie leftists who were never going to vote for her instead of committing to going for Biden's base and the Obama core liberals. She endorsed and campaigned for Obama in early 07, was on the forefront of marriage equality and has the obvious racial pluses in the primary to go after those two groups of voters. I think trying to play both sides lost her credibility with both sides.
I also think she had the best shot of breaking Biden's hold of black voters. I am having a hard time seeing who takes them now.
I would assume this is good for Warren. Harris and Warren were my top 2, my wife's top 2, my mother's top 2, my sister's two 2....
Breaking News: Senator Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after months of slumping poll numbers, a dramatic comedown after a promising start
NYT is a newspaper sometimes.
Harris has dropped out.
I still like her overall, but when one wing of your party is offering a return to normalcy and another is offering dramatic, sweeping changes then the candidates peddling grand rhetoric paired with tepid reforms aren't going to find much of a place.
And if there is one for them, then splitting that party up four ways is going to leave everyone with little to show for it.
Hopefully her supporters find their way to Warren or Bernie or anyone besides Pete.
Harris supporters were most likely to also be considering Warren and Biden, per the Economist/YouGov. Klobuchar also surprisingly high here given her low standing overall. Still, Harris had only ~4% of the vote, so won't hugely shake things up.
Nate Silver does stats for things. And sometimes puts his foot in his mouth.
Probably to Warren or Biden. Not a huge shake up.
Though a few folks I know on twitter are singling surrender in the general already and crying that no one who is white/older can beat Trump.
I'm not sure where that notion comes from, especially since none of the PoC candidates this time around have shown themselves to be heavyweights nor especially in tune with the left of the party.
Harris's most substantial background is in law enforcement where if you squint your eyes she was a moderately progressive AG. But hardly revolutionary.
Booker has even less of a resume since his entire stint in Newark basically boiled down to exploding the number of charter schools and begging the forces of gentrification to move on from Jersey City and to start working on the brick city. He then ducked a tough race against Chris Christie to run for one of the safest democratic seats in the country where he still sits.
Castro gives good answers, kills on immigration and honestly I think if he were as charismatic as Booker he'd have a chance but he lacks some of the raw charisma needed to be the top of the ticket.
Booker and Harris I think have a better go in a different universe where someone besides Donald Trump is president, because that world is in much less visible distress and the parties base is way less amped up then it is now. Maybe Castro pulls a Bill Clinton and in the next cycle to come around he's suddenly the heavyweight.
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Come Overwatch with meeeee
Harris dropped before Gabbard, Steyer, Bloomberg, and Yang
I would not say this primary is acting to efficient choose the best candidates
In fact it seems as though the race started too early, and several candidates might have benefitted from coming in late
I suspect a deeper issue is Biden and his support.
Biden's support won't budge. And no one can really figure it out. And it just keeps not moving. This basically kills the momentum of basically all the other candidates trying to run in anywhere close to his lane or via some path that requires the demos he has locked in tight just to get off the ground. Which results in the 2nd tier mainstream candidates all falling to the wayside.
And so you are left with Biden, the two candidates running in a distinctly different lane out on the left (Warren/Sanders) and all the cranks who's continued existence in this race was never connected to reality and so will only stop when they run out of money or get bored and wander off. And Buttigieg of course as the spare Biden rich donors are keeping on ice in case the 1st edition model falters.
Harris dropped before Gabbard, Steyer, Bloomberg, and Yang
I would not say this primary is acting to efficient choose the best candidates
In fact it seems as though the race started too early, and several candidates might have benefitted from coming in late
Gabbard and Yang are both in the "nutty" wing. They don't intend to win, they just want to shake things up, which doesn't require a lot of dollars (or in Gabbard's case rubles :P)
Steyer and Bloomberg are both so rich they will never have to drop out through lack of money. This is a general flaw in US democracy, and one reason why we are in the current political pickle.
+9
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Harris dropped before Gabbard, Steyer, Bloomberg, and Yang
I would not say this primary is acting to efficient choose the best candidates
In fact it seems as though the race started too early, and several candidates might have benefitted from coming in late
Yang actually has upward polling momentum relative to where he started so he has reason to stay in unless you're saying the party should just decide to shut him down somehow and exclude him. Steyer and Bloomberg have fuck you money and they can run no matter what so I don't think you can fault the primary process. Gabbard also doesn't seem to be a totally rational actor here.
Harris dropped before Gabbard, Steyer, Bloomberg, and Yang
I would not say this primary is acting to efficient choose the best candidates
In fact it seems as though the race started too early, and several candidates might have benefitted from coming in late
One of my colleagues pointed out this may be due to how the California ballot works. It is finalized either this week or next so it can be mailed in February. And she doesn't want a bad showing on that ballot for reasons that have to do with her current seat.
And she might want a less fragmented result. I suspect Warren is her first choice (but Biden might choose her as VP if their early fights didn't leave rancor) as they are long time allies. Without some way of narrowing the field, Biden seems v safe
Breaking News: Senator Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after months of slumping poll numbers, a dramatic comedown after a promising start
NYT is a newspaper sometimes.
Harris has dropped out.
I think she would have been one of the stronger general election candidates and better potential Presidents in the field. Along with most of the field she went too hard trying to appeal to Bernie leftists who were never going to vote for her instead of committing to going for Biden's base and the Obama core liberals. She endorsed and campaigned for Obama in early 07, was on the forefront of marriage equality and has the obvious racial pluses in the primary to go after those two groups of voters. I think trying to play both sides lost her credibility with both sides.
I also think she had the best shot of breaking Biden's hold of black voters. I am having a hard time seeing who takes them now.
I would assume this is good for Warren. Harris and Warren were my top 2, my wife's top 2, my mother's top 2, my sister's two 2....
I think the evidence suggests this was not true and I really think that maybe that's what hurt her the most.
Breaking News: Senator Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after months of slumping poll numbers, a dramatic comedown after a promising start
NYT is a newspaper sometimes.
Harris has dropped out.
I still like her overall, but when one wing of your party is offering a return to normalcy and another is offering dramatic, sweeping changes then the candidates peddling grand rhetoric paired with tepid reforms aren't going to find much of a place.
And if there is one for them, then splitting that party up four ways is going to leave everyone with little to show for it.
Hopefully her supporters find their way to Warren or Bernie or anyone besides Pete.
Harris supporters were most likely to also be considering Warren and Biden, per the Economist/YouGov. Klobuchar also surprisingly high here given her low standing overall. Still, Harris had only ~4% of the vote, so won't hugely shake things up.
Nate Silver does stats for things. And sometimes puts his foot in his mouth.
Probably to Warren or Biden. Not a huge shake up.
Though a few folks I know on twitter are singling surrender in the general already and crying that no one who is white/older can beat Trump.
I'm not sure where that notion comes from, especially since none of the PoC candidates this time around have shown themselves to be heavyweights nor especially in tune with the left of the party.
Harris's most substantial background is in law enforcement where if you squint your eyes she was a moderately progressive AG. But hardly revolutionary.
Booker has even less of a resume since his entire stint in Newark basically boiled down to exploding the number of charter schools and begging the forces of gentrification to move on from Jersey City and to start working on the brick city. He then ducked a tough race against Chris Christie to run for one of the safest democratic seats in the country where he still sits.
Castro gives good answers, kills on immigration and honestly I think if he were as charismatic as Booker he'd have a chance but he lacks some of the raw charisma needed to be the top of the ticket.
Booker and Harris I think have a better go in a different universe where someone besides Donald Trump is president, because that world is in much less visible distress and the parties base is way less amped up then it is now. Maybe Castro pulls a Bill Clinton and in the next cycle to come around he's suddenly the heavyweight.
I have seen a few times in certain circles of the hellscape of Twitter is a general hatred of a lot of other candidates and/or a belief a white person cannot beat Donald Trump.
I personally don't get it. It is also Twitter and shouldn't be thought of as the actual voting public.
There also seems in some circles an assumption no matter what Biden will win the primary now that X candidate is gone. In this case Harris.
Breaking News: Senator Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after months of slumping poll numbers, a dramatic comedown after a promising start
NYT is a newspaper sometimes.
Harris has dropped out.
I think she would have been one of the stronger general election candidates and better potential Presidents in the field. Along with most of the field she went too hard trying to appeal to Bernie leftists who were never going to vote for her instead of committing to going for Biden's base and the Obama core liberals. She endorsed and campaigned for Obama in early 07, was on the forefront of marriage equality and has the obvious racial pluses in the primary to go after those two groups of voters. I think trying to play both sides lost her credibility with both sides.
I also think she had the best shot of breaking Biden's hold of black voters. I am having a hard time seeing who takes them now.
I would assume this is good for Warren. Harris and Warren were my top 2, my wife's top 2, my mother's top 2, my sister's two 2....
I think the evidence suggests this was not true and I really think that maybe that's what hurt her the most.
That's the result but I also think it's related. I think if you come out backing leftist/radical programs like she did early you lose credibility with some communities. Biden has been the safe choice and she undercut her argument in that way IMO. Booker had the same issue IMO.
If they had run as liberals instead of progressives I think they would have come across as more authentic and would have had more appeal. It is impossible to know though so I could be wrong.
It should probably be noted that this probably means barring additional qualifiers the December Democratic debate will be four people - all white, three men and three in their 70s
Harris dropping out is a good thing because it got the thread off the immensely tedious topic of how we wanted to categorise each other according to the definition of "left". Please don't follow that tangent again, because it's not the topic.
Harris dropped before Gabbard, Steyer, Bloomberg, and Yang
I would not say this primary is acting to efficient choose the best candidates
In fact it seems as though the race started too early, and several candidates might have benefitted from coming in late
I suspect a deeper issue is Biden and his support.
Biden's support won't budge. And no one can really figure it out. And it just keeps not moving. This basically kills the momentum of basically all the other candidates trying to run in anywhere close to his lane or via some path that requires the demos he has locked in tight just to get off the ground. Which results in the 2nd tier mainstream candidates all falling to the wayside.
And so you are left with Biden, the two candidates running in a distinctly different lane out on the left (Warren/Sanders) and all the cranks who's continued existence in this race was never connected to reality and so will only stop when they run out of money or get bored and wander off. And Buttigieg of course as the spare Biden rich donors are keeping on ice in case the 1st edition model falters.
Agreed except for "can't figure it out". For minorities, electability is paramount because removing Trump is paramount. They are betting on Biden as the least unappealing to middle class, midwest whites who can make or break elections. The solid support of those whites tends to bear minorities out.
+3
No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
Breaking News: Senator Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination after months of slumping poll numbers, a dramatic comedown after a promising start
NYT is a newspaper sometimes.
Harris has dropped out.
I think she would have been one of the stronger general election candidates and better potential Presidents in the field. Along with most of the field she went too hard trying to appeal to Bernie leftists who were never going to vote for her instead of committing to going for Biden's base and the Obama core liberals. She endorsed and campaigned for Obama in early 07, was on the forefront of marriage equality and has the obvious racial pluses in the primary to go after those two groups of voters. I think trying to play both sides lost her credibility with both sides.
I also think she had the best shot of breaking Biden's hold of black voters. I am having a hard time seeing who takes them now.
I would assume this is good for Warren. Harris and Warren were my top 2, my wife's top 2, my mother's top 2, my sister's two 2....
I think the evidence suggests this was not true and I really think that maybe that's what hurt her the most.
That's the result but I also think it's related. I think if you come out backing leftist/radical programs like she did early you lose credibility with some communities. Biden has been the safe choice and she undercut her argument in that way IMO. Booker had the same issue IMO.
If they had run as liberals instead of progressives I think they would have come across as more authentic and would have had more appeal. It is impossible to know though so I could be wrong.
I think Warren's campaign would look pretty different if Sanders hadn't run, or opted to drop out after his heart attack and endorsed her.
Not exactly the most marginalized of voices, but yes a first none the less.
Well, and first woman, and first openly homosexual person. And considering the Harris voters are going to flock to Warren, I think we'll be well on course for the first woman.
It should probably be noted that this probably means barring additional qualifiers the December Democratic debate will be four people - all white, three men and three in their 70s
With Harris out, there are now actually six candidates who will be at the debate:
Joe Biden
Elizabeth Warren
Bernie Sanders
Pete Buttigieg
Amy Klobuchar
Tom Steyer
There are less than 10 days left to qualify. The debate is on Dec. 19.
Doesn't change your overall point much, I know (a whopping two women instead of one!), but I figured I'd post the full list of qualifying candidates for folks' information.
Ladai on
+1
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Not exactly the most marginalized of voices, but yes a first none the less.
Well, and first woman, and first openly homosexual person. And considering the Harris voters are going to flock to Warren, I think we'll be well on course for the first woman.
While this is my personal hope, the point was raised earlier that Harris didn't have a substantial amount of supporters, and a good chunk of them listed Biden as their second.
I still see a ton of institutional bias and fearmongering against Warren. Though I should note that it's icing on the cake for me that she's Methodist.
Posts
What are you basing that analysis on? It’s pretty safe to say that nearly everyone posting here are absolutely on the left side. I have no idea what criteria you are using if you think people here are not left of the general electorate.
He's saying left as in a distinct political ideology apart from liberalism, not a relative distance from center.
There was a lengthy NYT article only a few days ago about her campaign being a fucking mess behind the scenes. In light of that and a continued lack of any movement upward in the polls, this seemed inevitable.
I still like her overall, but when one wing of your party is offering a return to normalcy and another is offering dramatic, sweeping changes then the candidates peddling grand rhetoric paired with tepid reforms aren't going to find much of a place.
And if there is one for them, then splitting that party up four ways is going to leave everyone with little to show for it.
Hopefully her supporters find their way to Warren or Bernie or anyone besides Pete.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
This is the most opaque way of summarizing that you're proposing some sort of gatekeeping to label anyone but Bernie supporters as unable to be 'left' and therefore by definition must be centrists.
Nate Silver does stats for things. And sometimes puts his foot in his mouth.
Probably to Warren or Biden. Not a huge shake up.
Though a few folks I know on twitter are singling surrender in the general already and crying that no one who is white/older can beat Trump.
I highly doubt her followers would move to Buttigieg.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I think it was less her positioning and more that Biden is sucked all the air out of the room in that lane and she never offered any real vision or executed any real strategy that would have changed that.
We'd need to revive the socialism thread to discuss this further
Quintessential "Not X" candidate, with predictable results.
So that's what, 3 out in the last few days? It feels like we're finally narrowing the field.
I would not say this primary is acting to efficient choose the best candidates
In fact it seems as though the race started too early, and several candidates might have benefitted from coming in late
Thank the lord. 28(?) candidates is far too many for each person to have unique views.
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One of my colleagues pointed out this may be due to how the California ballot works. It is finalized either this week or next so it can be mailed in February. And she doesn't want a bad showing on that ballot for reasons that have to do with her current seat.
I think she would have been one of the stronger general election candidates and better potential Presidents in the field. Along with most of the field she went too hard trying to appeal to Bernie leftists who were never going to vote for her instead of committing to going for Biden's base and the Obama core liberals. She endorsed and campaigned for Obama in early 07, was on the forefront of marriage equality and has the obvious racial pluses in the primary to go after those two groups of voters. I think trying to play both sides lost her credibility with both sides.
I also think she had the best shot of breaking Biden's hold of black voters. I am having a hard time seeing who takes them now.
I would assume this is good for Warren. Harris and Warren were my top 2, my wife's top 2, my mother's top 2, my sister's two 2....
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
I'm not sure where that notion comes from, especially since none of the PoC candidates this time around have shown themselves to be heavyweights nor especially in tune with the left of the party.
Harris's most substantial background is in law enforcement where if you squint your eyes she was a moderately progressive AG. But hardly revolutionary.
Booker has even less of a resume since his entire stint in Newark basically boiled down to exploding the number of charter schools and begging the forces of gentrification to move on from Jersey City and to start working on the brick city. He then ducked a tough race against Chris Christie to run for one of the safest democratic seats in the country where he still sits.
Castro gives good answers, kills on immigration and honestly I think if he were as charismatic as Booker he'd have a chance but he lacks some of the raw charisma needed to be the top of the ticket.
Booker and Harris I think have a better go in a different universe where someone besides Donald Trump is president, because that world is in much less visible distress and the parties base is way less amped up then it is now. Maybe Castro pulls a Bill Clinton and in the next cycle to come around he's suddenly the heavyweight.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
I suspect a deeper issue is Biden and his support.
Biden's support won't budge. And no one can really figure it out. And it just keeps not moving. This basically kills the momentum of basically all the other candidates trying to run in anywhere close to his lane or via some path that requires the demos he has locked in tight just to get off the ground. Which results in the 2nd tier mainstream candidates all falling to the wayside.
And so you are left with Biden, the two candidates running in a distinctly different lane out on the left (Warren/Sanders) and all the cranks who's continued existence in this race was never connected to reality and so will only stop when they run out of money or get bored and wander off. And Buttigieg of course as the spare Biden rich donors are keeping on ice in case the 1st edition model falters.
Gabbard and Yang are both in the "nutty" wing. They don't intend to win, they just want to shake things up, which doesn't require a lot of dollars (or in Gabbard's case rubles :P)
Steyer and Bloomberg are both so rich they will never have to drop out through lack of money. This is a general flaw in US democracy, and one reason why we are in the current political pickle.
Yang actually has upward polling momentum relative to where he started so he has reason to stay in unless you're saying the party should just decide to shut him down somehow and exclude him. Steyer and Bloomberg have fuck you money and they can run no matter what so I don't think you can fault the primary process. Gabbard also doesn't seem to be a totally rational actor here.
I think it's working fine.
And she might want a less fragmented result. I suspect Warren is her first choice (but Biden might choose her as VP if their early fights didn't leave rancor) as they are long time allies. Without some way of narrowing the field, Biden seems v safe
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
I think the evidence suggests this was not true and I really think that maybe that's what hurt her the most.
I have seen a few times in certain circles of the hellscape of Twitter is a general hatred of a lot of other candidates and/or a belief a white person cannot beat Donald Trump.
I personally don't get it. It is also Twitter and shouldn't be thought of as the actual voting public.
There also seems in some circles an assumption no matter what Biden will win the primary now that X candidate is gone. In this case Harris.
That's the result but I also think it's related. I think if you come out backing leftist/radical programs like she did early you lose credibility with some communities. Biden has been the safe choice and she undercut her argument in that way IMO. Booker had the same issue IMO.
If they had run as liberals instead of progressives I think they would have come across as more authentic and would have had more appeal. It is impossible to know though so I could be wrong.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Agreed except for "can't figure it out". For minorities, electability is paramount because removing Trump is paramount. They are betting on Biden as the least unappealing to middle class, midwest whites who can make or break elections. The solid support of those whites tends to bear minorities out.
I think Warren's campaign would look pretty different if Sanders hadn't run, or opted to drop out after his heart attack and endorsed her.
Or if Joe had simply never entered the race.
Not exactly the most marginalized of voices, but yes a first none the less.
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We have had exactly 1 non-christian president, and he was catholic...and was assassinated.
So like, it would be a pretty big deal for us from a historical perspective.
Catholics are a type of Christian.
Well, and first woman, and first openly homosexual person. And considering the Harris voters are going to flock to Warren, I think we'll be well on course for the first woman.
With Harris out, there are now actually six candidates who will be at the debate:
Joe Biden
Elizabeth Warren
Bernie Sanders
Pete Buttigieg
Amy Klobuchar
Tom Steyer
There are less than 10 days left to qualify. The debate is on Dec. 19.
Doesn't change your overall point much, I know (a whopping two women instead of one!), but I figured I'd post the full list of qualifying candidates for folks' information.
While this is my personal hope, the point was raised earlier that Harris didn't have a substantial amount of supporters, and a good chunk of them listed Biden as their second.
I still see a ton of institutional bias and fearmongering against Warren. Though I should note that it's icing on the cake for me that she's Methodist.
She didn't give it up to run so yeah she'll keep her senate seat.
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