Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
DIsposession is a thing like a tank crew abandoning their vehicle after taking a non-penetrating hit in that its not a thing you're going to see outside of very grognardy strategy games.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited December 2019
I miss Dispossession being a thing in Battletech.
The idea that the potential loss of a Battlemech could really doom a, at least minor, noble house was always interesting to me. So it made sense people would bug out of an obviously lost fight more often than not.
That is, AFAIK, still something lore-wise Merc units do when fighting other Mercs. With the victorious Mercs, most of the time, letting the losers leave with their Mechs since you never know when your company may be on the other end of things.
edit- Now though I think while losing a Mech isn't as huge of a deal as it used to be, losing your ancestral Mech is still a pretty big loss of face among the nobles.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited December 2019
It was a thing. Technically, which era you're talking about it would still be a thing. Post Third Succession War or there abouts it kinda stops being a thing because people, especially Nobles, can just build more Mechs again with relatively little trouble.
Being a Noble, even a minor one, and losing your Mech is more of an inconvenience then catastrophically awful.
During and before the Third Succession War losing your Mech was basically the death knell of your House for a lot of Nobles. You don't got a Mech anymore, you're now useless to your Liege, say goodbye to your lands and titles.
edit- Or to clarify, the crux of the discussion is that they introduced Dispossession as a concept in the lore and then almost immediately moved the timeline up to a point where Dispossession was no longer a concept in the lore.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Decided about 1/3 of the way in that I was going to go for legendary rank this career. I've got about 270 days left and need to get another 80k points (out of 130k left). I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm not going to get to Kerensky rank since I set mech salvage to 4 parts which cuts my income by 12-15% and there is no way I'd be able to get to 800 million c-bills and I wasn't efficient enough with my star system travel early on.
I've maxed everything except star systems, c-bills, contracts and experience
I probably need to visit another 60 star systems which is going to be the hardest part but I also need to do another 80-90 4.5+ skull contracts which is just fucking tedious at this point, I'll get the experience done at the same time. I've managed 400 million c-bills and can probably get another 100-150 million for 10-15k points by the end of the career though I haven't worked out how much cash I have in spare parts and weapons which I'll completely sell off with 1 day left.
Decided about 1/3 of the way in that I was going to go for legendary rank this career. I've got about 270 days left and need to get another 80k points (out of 130k left). I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm not going to get to Kerensky rank since I set mech salvage to 4 parts which cuts my income by 12-15% and there is no way I'd be able to get to 800 million c-bills and I wasn't efficient enough with my star system travel early on.
I've maxed everything except star systems, c-bills, contracts and experience
I probably need to visit another 60 star systems which is going to be the hardest part but I also need to do another 80-90 4.5+ skull contracts which is just fucking tedious at this point, I'll get the experience done at the same time. I've managed 400 million c-bills and can probably get another 100-150 million for 10-15k points by the end of the career though I haven't worked out how much cash I have in spare parts and weapons which I'll completely sell off with 1 day left.
Let me know if you make it. I made a concerted score run a while back and couldn't get those last two tiers. I don't see how you do it without ruthless savescumming. The reputation system results in arriving in too many systems only to find 0-2 playable missions.
Decided about 1/3 of the way in that I was going to go for legendary rank this career. I've got about 270 days left and need to get another 80k points (out of 130k left). I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm not going to get to Kerensky rank since I set mech salvage to 4 parts which cuts my income by 12-15% and there is no way I'd be able to get to 800 million c-bills and I wasn't efficient enough with my star system travel early on.
I've maxed everything except star systems, c-bills, contracts and experience
I probably need to visit another 60 star systems which is going to be the hardest part but I also need to do another 80-90 4.5+ skull contracts which is just fucking tedious at this point, I'll get the experience done at the same time. I've managed 400 million c-bills and can probably get another 100-150 million for 10-15k points by the end of the career though I haven't worked out how much cash I have in spare parts and weapons which I'll completely sell off with 1 day left.
Let me know if you make it. I made a concerted score run a while back and couldn't get those last two tiers. I don't see how you do it without ruthless savescumming. The reputation system results in arriving in too many systems only to find 0-2 playable missions.
Visiting 160 systems over 1200 days also only allows you 7.5 days per system. I'm not sure how it can be done.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
Decided about 1/3 of the way in that I was going to go for legendary rank this career. I've got about 270 days left and need to get another 80k points (out of 130k left). I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm not going to get to Kerensky rank since I set mech salvage to 4 parts which cuts my income by 12-15% and there is no way I'd be able to get to 800 million c-bills and I wasn't efficient enough with my star system travel early on.
I've maxed everything except star systems, c-bills, contracts and experience
I probably need to visit another 60 star systems which is going to be the hardest part but I also need to do another 80-90 4.5+ skull contracts which is just fucking tedious at this point, I'll get the experience done at the same time. I've managed 400 million c-bills and can probably get another 100-150 million for 10-15k points by the end of the career though I haven't worked out how much cash I have in spare parts and weapons which I'll completely sell off with 1 day left.
Let me know if you make it. I made a concerted score run a while back and couldn't get those last two tiers. I don't see how you do it without ruthless savescumming. The reputation system results in arriving in too many systems only to find 0-2 playable missions.
There was a reddit post by a guy who maxed his score and he basically said it was horrible and stupid and tedious and killed his joy to play the game any more. Looking at the requirements it's pretty easy to see that's what can easily happen if you grind to get them all. I remember having an epiphany years ago in WoW when I was grinding stuff to get some stupid 16-slot bag that I wasn't having fun, been really critical ever since about going for achievements etc that require too much tedium from the player.
Is it just me, or does it seem like enemy AI pilots can't be overheated via sustained flamer fire? Was just in Kaliyama's game and tried out a 5xFlamer Firestarter and couldn't shutdown either a Locust or Shadow Hawk with any amount of sustained fire (the Locust got cored out from the damage before it shutdown).
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Is it just me, or does it seem like enemy AI pilots can't be overheated via sustained flamer fire? Was just in Kaliyama's game and tried out a 5xFlamer Firestarter and couldn't shutdown either a Locust or Shadow Hawk with any amount of sustained fire (the Locust got cored out from the damage before it shutdown).
I mean, Locust wouldn't exactly be my first choice to try and force an overheat? Isn't it just 1x MLas, 2x MG?
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I wouldn't be surprised if they made it so that you can't force overheating via flamers, you can only force their heat level to a certain max. And for mechs with really high relative heat dissipation (like a mech with only a single MLAS), you might not really be able to shut them down at all because even the max heat you can dump on them isn't enough to force them over the edge when they fire.
I wouldn't be surprised if they made it so that you can't force overheating via flamers, you can only force their heat level to a certain max. And for mechs with really high relative heat dissipation (like a mech with only a single MLAS), you might not really be able to shut them down at all because even the max heat you can dump on them isn't enough to force them over the edge when they fire.
Being on the receiving end of 4 flamers, they easily push me up over the shutdown threshold (and can keep me there) even if I'm not firing any of my weapons when I'm sitting on several extra heatsinks in my mech.
So that tells me that trying to direct heat on enemy AI mechs isn't a thing.
EDIT - also, those Locusts aren't exactly sitting on a pile of heatsinks to dissipate 5 flamers' worth of heat (I think they might have a dissipation rate of around 1 heat/second versus the ~3 per second per flamer).
EDIT2 - okay, yeah, something is definitely wonky. Apparently, looking at the mechbay in-game, the flamers are only pushing "0.5 heat" each...but getting hit with a pair of them against my Battlemaster (with 8 extra heatsinks) pushes the heat bar up considerably faster than what's indicated (as soon as I saw the rate of heat build-up, I was only using my two machine guns...but even with that, I was still getting pushed into a shutdown). And a Locust-1V has a heat dissipation of 1.04h/s...so 5 flamers should have very readily pushed it into either a shutdown or caused lingering overheat damage.
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Decided about 1/3 of the way in that I was going to go for legendary rank this career. I've got about 270 days left and need to get another 80k points (out of 130k left). I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm not going to get to Kerensky rank since I set mech salvage to 4 parts which cuts my income by 12-15% and there is no way I'd be able to get to 800 million c-bills and I wasn't efficient enough with my star system travel early on.
I've maxed everything except star systems, c-bills, contracts and experience
I probably need to visit another 60 star systems which is going to be the hardest part but I also need to do another 80-90 4.5+ skull contracts which is just fucking tedious at this point, I'll get the experience done at the same time. I've managed 400 million c-bills and can probably get another 100-150 million for 10-15k points by the end of the career though I haven't worked out how much cash I have in spare parts and weapons which I'll completely sell off with 1 day left.
Let me know if you make it. I made a concerted score run a while back and couldn't get those last two tiers. I don't see how you do it without ruthless savescumming. The reputation system results in arriving in too many systems only to find 0-2 playable missions.
There was a reddit post by a guy who maxed his score and he basically said it was horrible and stupid and tedious and killed his joy to play the game any more. Looking at the requirements it's pretty easy to see that's what can easily happen if you grind to get them all. I remember having an epiphany years ago in WoW when I was grinding stuff to get some stupid 16-slot bag that I wasn't having fun, been really critical ever since about going for achievements etc that require too much tedium from the player.
As a conservative estimate I've got 20 hours just running contracts if they average to 15 minutes each. They aren't going to be exciting either since I've got 3 annihilators and an atlas 2 and I just headshot everything with UACs.
I'm definitely going to have to just do a couple of contracts here and there so I don't burn out.
edit: thankfully I now realise you get 50 points for each half skull of contract difficulty - not 50 points for every full skull like the tool tip suggests. So I've only got 10 hours of contracts!
Is there a way to tell which faction holds which territory? I imagine lore nerds know it by the colours, but as someone whose interest in Battletech is "cool stompy mechs" the map isn't telling me much. I've not seen any legend markers, nor does mousing over them tell you anything.
Is there a way to tell which faction holds which territory? I imagine lore nerds know it by the colours, but as someone whose interest in Battletech is "cool stompy mechs" the map isn't telling me much. I've not seen any legend markers, nor does mousing over them tell you anything.
Red = Kurita/Draconis Combine
Blue = Steiner/Lyran Commonwealth
Yellow = Davion/Federated Suns
Purple = Marik/Free Worlds League
Green = Liao/Capellan Confederation
In that map I spoilered up above:
Mint green = Free Rasalhague Republic
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
What determines what kind of mechs are for sale? Is it your reputation (so no matter how far into someone's territory you go, you'll always see the same spread of tonnage) or simply how far you are from the starting point/the difficulty of the missions around it?
Could I farm a bunch of money, strike out across the border to buy a big mech and return, or would I see nothing new because my rep is too low?
What determines what kind of mechs are for sale? Is it your reputation (so no matter how far into someone's territory you go, you'll always see the same spread of tonnage) or simply how far you are from the starting point/the difficulty of the missions around it?
Could I farm a bunch of money, strike out across the border to buy a big mech and return, or would I see nothing new because my rep is too low?
From what I'm seeing, it looks to be a combination of how far you go from the starting point combined with the date.
EDIT - I should expand on the date aspect since it feels two-fold. 1) most (all?) of the industrial systems won't even show up until a certain minimum date is reached. At which point, you just need to get somewhat close to it on a random/semi-random jump. And 2) there will be entire mech chasses that won't show up until a certain minimum date is reached.
Which is kinda weird, since I've been finding Ravens around the 3029-3030 neighborhood...and those shouldn't even exist for another 18-19 years.
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Chasing rare mechs early on seems to be a waste of time. So far I've found a Panther 8Z that's useless because it had 1 energy and 1 missile hard point. And a rare Urbanmech of all things. The AC10 variant is rare? OK.
However, I did score a Trebuchet 3C with 2 LRM15s with Artemis. So that was nice but now I feel like it's too expensive to actually use.
I ran it one time and put one of my pilots in my Centurion. He promptly got the AC10 blown off and I have no replacements.
Long range weapons seem like a waste of time. You get zergd too quickly to make LRMs useful. They're only good for knocking out buildings and helicopters.
The designated map territories are not static! Which makes me wonder: what else changes as time progresses in the game...
The Tikonov Republic and St Ives Compact show up on the map at the end of the 4th Succession War in 3030 too. Haven't had a chance to fly there yet to see if the mission employers have changed in those areas.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
-God, are all of the bios for the Kickstarter MechWarriors bad? I've been reading a few as I bomb around, and it's just angsty, Black Ops, Person Of Interest story after story. Buncha fucking edgelords, get outta here.
-I just cobbled together a Maruader! I already had an AC/20++ with +20 damage on hand! This thing's going to get work done.
-Flashpoint "Yang's Big Score" looted me a Thunderbolt! Yay! It's already been getting work done, I really like that chassis.
-Flashpoint "Siegebreaker": Holy shit that Attack & Defend mission. 2.5 Skulls my ass.
-I'm heading to the Tarragona Flashpoint now! Wish me luck!
-[Edit] Oh god, "Bob" the Combine merc handler is the fucking best. I hate working for the snakes (the one job I've taken so far was....very unpleasant), but this man is golden.
I’ve taken to never hiring KS Mechwarriors whose bios mention Solaris VII. I do not hire many KS Mechwarriors.
There's a couple that briefly mention Solaris in their bios that I thought were alright. The woman's handle is Succubus, I forget the guy's. Going back for a reread, the guy's is a bit much.
Ice Trey is still the worst backer character, IMHO.
-God, are all of the bios for the Kickstarter MechWarriors bad? I've been reading a few as I bomb around, and it's just angsty, Black Ops, Person Of Interest story after story. Buncha fucking edgelords, get outta here.
-I just cobbled together a Maruader! I already had an AC/20++ with +20 damage on hand! This thing's going to get work done.
-Flashpoint "Yang's Big Score" looted me a Thunderbolt! Yay! It's already been getting work done, I really like that chassis.
-Flashpoint "Siegebreaker": Holy shit that Attack & Defend mission. 2.5 Skulls my ass.
-I'm heading to the Tarragona Flashpoint now! Wish me luck!
-[Edit] Oh god, "Bob" the Combine merc handler is the fucking best. I hate working for the snakes (the one job I've taken so far was....very unpleasant), but this man is golden.
I’ve taken to never hiring KS Mechwarriors whose bios mention Solaris VII. I do not hire many KS Mechwarriors.
There's a couple that briefly mention Solaris in their bios that I thought were alright. The woman's handle is Succubus, I forget the guy's. Going back for a reread, the guy's is a bit much.
Ice Trey is still the worst backer character, IMHO.
oh hey... you can totally make Mr. Nipples (aka the FS9-H) a viable AC/2 platform! The Mini Shadowhawk!
you can squeeze 2 in if you want, but you really have no armor.
Been playing my latest BE3025 CE campaign for almost 800 days and finally starting to run into enemies who have advanced tech. Not sure if it is because the date advances or because I'm doing higher skull rating missions or it's just the big houses who have the shiny toys, but whatever the reason is it brings some new excitement into the battles. Pulse lasers ignore 3 avoidance chevrons which means even the dumb AI pilots can land hits with them, streak missiles avoid 2 and are likewise dangerous. It also means they have things I want to salvage, double heat sinks and such.
Probably should've picked the last of the four dates when starting though, it would've been a lot more interesting campaign if there'd been enemies like these from the beginning. I picked 3052 and it's about 3055 now.
MW5:
I wouldn't mind if they added an additional slider for contracts so you could tweak drop tonnage. Spend negotiation points to allow for more tonnage or bid underweight to gain additional points for use on more money/salvage. It would also give some flexibility for lance composition. For example, you wouldn't have to drop many tons under weight just because your main lance is 5 tons over the contract limit so you have to swap a mech out for something much lighter or remove a mech entirely.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
So if you have leftover points to spend on a contract but everything is maxed, are those points just lost?
Yes. Also lost when you forget to click the little + icons and just hit "Accept Contract."
Although, in the latter case, I will save scum the shit out of that situation.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
I thought they might go towards improving your rep with that faction, like they do in HBS Battletech.
So today, we had a BJ-1 with twin AC2-BF (and four ML), a JM6 with twin AC10-BF (and two ML), a Centurion with an LB10X (and two MPL and an LRM10), and a Locust with two SPLs and two MGs.
The Locust pilot won't take the AC5-BF Shadowhawk, he prefers MACHINE GUNS.
But the point is that there was a lot of dakka and it was beautiful.
Posts
The idea that the potential loss of a Battlemech could really doom a, at least minor, noble house was always interesting to me. So it made sense people would bug out of an obviously lost fight more often than not.
That is, AFAIK, still something lore-wise Merc units do when fighting other Mercs. With the victorious Mercs, most of the time, letting the losers leave with their Mechs since you never know when your company may be on the other end of things.
edit- Now though I think while losing a Mech isn't as huge of a deal as it used to be, losing your ancestral Mech is still a pretty big loss of face among the nobles.
I replayed the mission I alt+4’d out of after seeing my teammates obliterated.
I passed the mission with everyone green this time. I wasn’t being swarmed as much and there was time between waves to reposition.
So patch seems to help, was still Rought but seemed more fair.
Oddly enough it seemed easier to core the hunchback I was fighting then I was used to.
But it's never really been a big thing in the video games. Much like zellbrigen
Being a Noble, even a minor one, and losing your Mech is more of an inconvenience then catastrophically awful.
During and before the Third Succession War losing your Mech was basically the death knell of your House for a lot of Nobles. You don't got a Mech anymore, you're now useless to your Liege, say goodbye to your lands and titles.
edit- Or to clarify, the crux of the discussion is that they introduced Dispossession as a concept in the lore and then almost immediately moved the timeline up to a point where Dispossession was no longer a concept in the lore.
I've maxed everything except star systems, c-bills, contracts and experience
I probably need to visit another 60 star systems which is going to be the hardest part but I also need to do another 80-90 4.5+ skull contracts which is just fucking tedious at this point, I'll get the experience done at the same time. I've managed 400 million c-bills and can probably get another 100-150 million for 10-15k points by the end of the career though I haven't worked out how much cash I have in spare parts and weapons which I'll completely sell off with 1 day left.
Let me know if you make it. I made a concerted score run a while back and couldn't get those last two tiers. I don't see how you do it without ruthless savescumming. The reputation system results in arriving in too many systems only to find 0-2 playable missions.
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
Visiting 160 systems over 1200 days also only allows you 7.5 days per system. I'm not sure how it can be done.
There was a reddit post by a guy who maxed his score and he basically said it was horrible and stupid and tedious and killed his joy to play the game any more. Looking at the requirements it's pretty easy to see that's what can easily happen if you grind to get them all. I remember having an epiphany years ago in WoW when I was grinding stuff to get some stupid 16-slot bag that I wasn't having fun, been really critical ever since about going for achievements etc that require too much tedium from the player.
Is it just me, or does it seem like enemy AI pilots can't be overheated via sustained flamer fire? Was just in Kaliyama's game and tried out a 5xFlamer Firestarter and couldn't shutdown either a Locust or Shadow Hawk with any amount of sustained fire (the Locust got cored out from the damage before it shutdown).
I mean, Locust wouldn't exactly be my first choice to try and force an overheat? Isn't it just 1x MLas, 2x MG?
Being on the receiving end of 4 flamers, they easily push me up over the shutdown threshold (and can keep me there) even if I'm not firing any of my weapons when I'm sitting on several extra heatsinks in my mech.
So that tells me that trying to direct heat on enemy AI mechs isn't a thing.
EDIT - also, those Locusts aren't exactly sitting on a pile of heatsinks to dissipate 5 flamers' worth of heat (I think they might have a dissipation rate of around 1 heat/second versus the ~3 per second per flamer).
EDIT2 - okay, yeah, something is definitely wonky. Apparently, looking at the mechbay in-game, the flamers are only pushing "0.5 heat" each...but getting hit with a pair of them against my Battlemaster (with 8 extra heatsinks) pushes the heat bar up considerably faster than what's indicated (as soon as I saw the rate of heat build-up, I was only using my two machine guns...but even with that, I was still getting pushed into a shutdown). And a Locust-1V has a heat dissipation of 1.04h/s...so 5 flamers should have very readily pushed it into either a shutdown or caused lingering overheat damage.
As a conservative estimate I've got 20 hours just running contracts if they average to 15 minutes each. They aren't going to be exciting either since I've got 3 annihilators and an atlas 2 and I just headshot everything with UACs.
I'm definitely going to have to just do a couple of contracts here and there so I don't burn out.
edit: thankfully I now realise you get 50 points for each half skull of contract difficulty - not 50 points for every full skull like the tool tip suggests. So I've only got 10 hours of contracts!
Folks...
For reals. Map spoilers.
The designated map territories are not static! Which makes me wonder: what else changes as time progresses in the game...
Red = Kurita/Draconis Combine
Blue = Steiner/Lyran Commonwealth
Yellow = Davion/Federated Suns
Purple = Marik/Free Worlds League
Green = Liao/Capellan Confederation
In that map I spoilered up above:
Could I farm a bunch of money, strike out across the border to buy a big mech and return, or would I see nothing new because my rep is too low?
From what I'm seeing, it looks to be a combination of how far you go from the starting point combined with the date.
EDIT - I should expand on the date aspect since it feels two-fold. 1) most (all?) of the industrial systems won't even show up until a certain minimum date is reached. At which point, you just need to get somewhat close to it on a random/semi-random jump. And 2) there will be entire mech chasses that won't show up until a certain minimum date is reached.
Which is kinda weird, since I've been finding Ravens around the 3029-3030 neighborhood...and those shouldn't even exist for another 18-19 years.
However, I did score a Trebuchet 3C with 2 LRM15s with Artemis. So that was nice but now I feel like it's too expensive to actually use.
I ran it one time and put one of my pilots in my Centurion. He promptly got the AC10 blown off and I have no replacements.
Long range weapons seem like a waste of time. You get zergd too quickly to make LRMs useful. They're only good for knocking out buildings and helicopters.
Steam: betsuni7
????
Steam: betsuni7
It's not. But apparently the lag between Kickstarter and game coming out made the submitter change enough to be horribly embarrassed at that bio
you can squeeze 2 in if you want, but you really have no armor.
Probably should've picked the last of the four dates when starting though, it would've been a lot more interesting campaign if there'd been enemies like these from the beginning. I picked 3052 and it's about 3055 now.
I wouldn't mind if they added an additional slider for contracts so you could tweak drop tonnage. Spend negotiation points to allow for more tonnage or bid underweight to gain additional points for use on more money/salvage. It would also give some flexibility for lance composition. For example, you wouldn't have to drop many tons under weight just because your main lance is 5 tons over the contract limit so you have to swap a mech out for something much lighter or remove a mech entirely.
Yes. Also lost when you forget to click the little + icons and just hit "Accept Contract."
Although, in the latter case, I will save scum the shit out of that situation.
So today, we had a BJ-1 with twin AC2-BF (and four ML), a JM6 with twin AC10-BF (and two ML), a Centurion with an LB10X (and two MPL and an LRM10), and a Locust with two SPLs and two MGs.
The Locust pilot won't take the AC5-BF Shadowhawk, he prefers MACHINE GUNS.
But the point is that there was a lot of dakka and it was beautiful.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
i did that a couple times. didnt think to save scum though.