I've been playing this game for a a couple of weeks, and just beat it last night. I love, love, love it.
One of the things that I really like about this game, is that I think it really has a strong respect for science, and just gets it more than just about any other game I've played. I love that the thing that drives all of these creatures is essentially just the quest for knowledge, to illuminate the bigger questions. And the way that the game mechanics reinforce this; the game is all about standing on the shoulders of giants, so to speak, except the giants are the Nomai and your previous looped selves.
I was really able to connect with this on a personal professional level too. In most games, what you are grinding for is usually better technology, and more power. Like, in a JRPG you might spend 4 hours killing slimes because you are just trying to get gold for the better sword (better technology), the next spell (better technology), or higher stats (more power). A lot of times, when you notice the fundamental loop; I'm doing this grind so that I can get bigger numbers so that I can kill bigger monsters, to get me even bigger numbers, it ends up feeling really hollow. In this game though, you repeat these loops over and over, and the reward isn't more power, it's more knowledge.
For a while, I worked at a tech company, and my job was essentially to be part of the team that keeps Moore's Law running (the tech trend of transistor density doubling every two years). It felt very much like a grind for more power and better technology. When we would ship a new node, it would be somewhat gratifying, but it all comes with something of a "for what?" attached to it. Well, on to the next tech node I guess.
Before working there, I was getting my Ph.D. in much more fundamental kinds of science. The types of experiments that I did, and questions that I asked, were very unlikely to produce any meaningful technology in the short term, but every time I published a paper I found it extremely gratifying to know that I helped push the boundaries of knowledge that much further forward. And the creme de le creme was when others used those findings in ways that I never considered to do new and really cool work that I never even considered. Something about that process felt qualitatively different, and more fulfilling, and this game reminded me of that.
I love how nothing that you do in this game is ever really hard. You just need to know how it works, and then it's all pretty straight forward and easy to execute. It's just about running those experiments, failing a bunch, succeeding every once in a while, getting that tiny nugget of knowledge, and moving past it.
is there a Nomai statue somewhere that gives me psychic powers that allows me to command the Anglerfish
is that in the Ash Twin Project somewhere and I missed it
If you want the 'trick' to the fish it's in the spoiler:
They're blind, so if you pick up speed away from them and coast by them they won't eat you. This can be a little finnicky and I think doing so without the ship is easier.
One of the (many) things I loved about the game's ending:
I love how the universe is kind of restarted or reseeded with a song. In addition to be a beautiful and moving piece of music, it actually has great roots in the astrophysics. Specifically, probably the lead approach for unifying quantum mechanics and general relativity (the two physics theories which describe the small and the big, but have a discontinuities to make them incomplete without new theories) is superstring theory. Superstring theory describes mathematically and theoretically how all of the matter in the universe is the result of different oscillation modes of energetic strings. According this theory, which is our current best attempt at understanding the nature of the universe, everything that exists is quite literally the result of harmonic vibrations of energetic, produced in a variety of ways to give rise to the different kinds of matter (and other stuff) that we observe. In this way, the universe can really be understood as an enormous, multipart song, just like the game presents it.
A couple other things:
Quantum mechanics (which is the most scientifically verified theory we've got), very much describes all matter as having a wave-like component that can only vibrate in certain harmonic registers, kind of like a song. So just going that far works with the game ending too.
Also, I loved how if you go to the tower of quantum knowledge from the crossroads, the beam path you take forks in the middle, and you kind of randomly end up taking the left or right path. For me, this was very reminiscent of the particle-like component of the famous double split experiment, which kind of broke open the theory of quantum mechanics. I love this experiment in particular, because like the way things work in this game, it requires little technology and could have been performed at nearly any point during the history of human civilization, but the information gained from it only means anything with added context from past knowledge.
One of the (many) things I loved about the game's ending:
I love how the universe is kind of restarted or reseeded with a song. In addition to be a beautiful and moving piece of music, it actually has great roots in the astrophysics. Specifically, probably the lead approach for unifying quantum mechanics and general relativity (the two physics theories which describe the small and the big, but have a discontinuities to make them incomplete without new theories) is superstring theory. Superstring theory describes mathematically and theoretically how all of the matter in the universe is the result of different oscillation modes of energetic strings. According this theory, which is our current best attempt at understanding the nature of the universe, everything that exists is quite literally the result of harmonic vibrations of energetic, produced in a variety of ways to give rise to the different kinds of matter (and other stuff) that we observe. In this way, the universe can really be understood as an enormous, multipart song, just like the game presents it.
A couple other things:
Quantum mechanics (which is the most scientifically verified theory we've got), very much describes all matter as having a wave-like component that can only vibrate in certain harmonic registers, kind of like a song. So just going that far works with the game ending too.
Also, I loved how if you go to the tower of quantum knowledge from the crossroads, the beam path you take forks in the middle, and you kind of randomly end up taking the left or right path. For me, this was very reminiscent of the particle-like component of the famous double split experiment, which kind of broke open the theory of quantum mechanics. I love this experiment in particular, because like the way things work in this game, it requires little technology and could have been performed at nearly any point during the history of human civilization, but the information gained from it only means anything with added context from past knowledge.
These are some really neat observations/interpretations - thanks for sharing them!
I just wanna give a medal to the people behind the music, primarily the main melody
It’s not an easy thing to write a very simple melody that you’re going to hear looped hundreds of times across the game, across multiple instruments, that you never get sick of and is able to shapeshift to the mood, being both friendly and eerie
That being said, if they’re also the one who decided that Feldsparr would be playing the single sustained harmonica note to add to the terrifying hum of Dark Bramble they can go straight to hell
So, endgame / near endgame question, and I'm pretty sure it'll be fine but I wanna double check.
If I power down the ash twin project but don't make it to the vessel because I fuck up on an anglerfish or something, will the loop still reset? Will I just be screwed?
Lore wise it seems to imply that the loop breaks when I remove the core and I'm terrified to risk it until I hear from one of y'all.
So, endgame / near endgame question, and I'm pretty sure it'll be fine but I wanna double check.
If I power down the ash twin project but don't make it to the vessel because I fuck up on an anglerfish or something, will the loop still reset? Will I just be screwed?
Lore wise it seems to imply that the loop breaks when I remove the core and I'm terrified to risk it until I hear from one of y'all.
You get booted to the main menu and have to reload, but it doesn't delete your save or anything
So, endgame / near endgame question, and I'm pretty sure it'll be fine but I wanna double check.
If I power down the ash twin project but don't make it to the vessel because I fuck up on an anglerfish or something, will the loop still reset? Will I just be screwed?
Lore wise it seems to imply that the loop breaks when I remove the core and I'm terrified to risk it until I hear from one of y'all.
You get booted to the main menu and have to reload, but it doesn't delete your save or anything
Ok good, that was my worry. It woulda been real dumb if it did delete but ALSO I know what I've gotta do still so it probably wouldn't matter huh.
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BaidolI will hold him offEscape while you canRegistered Userregular
So, endgame / near endgame question, and I'm pretty sure it'll be fine but I wanna double check.
If I power down the ash twin project but don't make it to the vessel because I fuck up on an anglerfish or something, will the loop still reset? Will I just be screwed?
Lore wise it seems to imply that the loop breaks when I remove the core and I'm terrified to risk it until I hear from one of y'all.
You get booted to the main menu and have to reload, but it doesn't delete your save or anything
Yeah, it is one of the few ways to get a “You died” screen, but you do not lose anything.
The funny thing about this game,
Is that if it did delete your save, you wouldn't really lose much. Have to get the coordinates again to write then down, maybe drop by the moon to get the best ending, but you could still finish it in nearly the same amount of time.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
The funny thing about this game,
Is that if it did delete your save, you wouldn't really lose much. Have to get the coordinates again to write then down, maybe drop by the moon to get the best ending, but you could still finish it in nearly the same amount of time.
End Game stuff
Yea, the only thing that carries over from game to game is the ability to nap and your story board in your ship. There really isn't too much to the save games now that I think about it.
here's an endgame-ish story question that probably requires some science shit I don't understand
I don't think I get how the Nomai are causing the loop with the Ash Twin
I know it seems to have something to do with their discovered phenomenon of something appearing through a white hole before it enters the equivalent black hole, but I don't think I get how they're harnessing that into a specific 22 minute loop and using the statues to tie people into it and sending information back
also that just raises the further question of "why isn't everyone on Timber Hearth aware of the time loop since there's a Nomai statue right there," but just maybe nobody goes to that museum
here's an endgame-ish story question that probably requires some science shit I don't understand
I don't think I get how the Nomai are causing the loop with the Ash Twin
I know it seems to have something to do with their discovered phenomenon of something appearing through a white hole before it enters the equivalent black hole, but I don't think I get how they're harnessing that into a specific 22 minute loop and using the statues to tie people into it and sending information back
also that just raises the further question of "why isn't everyone on Timber Hearth aware of the time loop since there's a Nomai statue right there," but just maybe nobody goes to that museum
Have you been to the high energy lab, or black hole forge?
here's an endgame-ish story question that probably requires some science shit I don't understand
I don't think I get how the Nomai are causing the loop with the Ash Twin
I know it seems to have something to do with their discovered phenomenon of something appearing through a white hole before it enters the equivalent black hole, but I don't think I get how they're harnessing that into a specific 22 minute loop and using the statues to tie people into it and sending information back
also that just raises the further question of "why isn't everyone on Timber Hearth aware of the time loop since there's a Nomai statue right there," but just maybe nobody goes to that museum
Have you been to the high energy lab, or black hole forge?
I've been to everywhere but the Southern Observatory
which seems irrelevant since I already went to Giant's Deep's core
I'm sure it was explained to me already but my brain's too dumb to connect it and there have been a LOT of concepts thrown at me already
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
here's an endgame-ish story question that probably requires some science shit I don't understand
I don't think I get how the Nomai are causing the loop with the Ash Twin
I know it seems to have something to do with their discovered phenomenon of something appearing through a white hole before it enters the equivalent black hole, but I don't think I get how they're harnessing that into a specific 22 minute loop and using the statues to tie people into it and sending information back
also that just raises the further question of "why isn't everyone on Timber Hearth aware of the time loop since there's a Nomai statue right there," but just maybe nobody goes to that museum
Have you been to the high energy lab, or black hole forge?
I've been to everywhere but the Southern Observatory
which seems irrelevant since I already went to Giant's Deep's core
I'm sure it was explained to me already but my brain's too dumb to connect it and there have been a LOT of concepts thrown at me already
So this pretty much lays it out.
The phenomenon of the the item appearing out of the white hole before it goes through the black hole is tied to the project to have the sun go nova. The Nomai found that with more power they could extend the gap between something appearing before being sent in. The Sun station was designed to super nova the star to generate the energy necessary for the 22 minutes needed for the probe to fly far enough to find the eye distance wise (they knew roughly how far out, just not the exact coordinates), and then repeat over and over again until they actually found the eye, with each loop noting whether it was successful or not.
You start when the probe was finally successful, which then turns on the statues so that the Nomai can turn off the sun station and keep the star from going nova, breaking the loop and to keep folks from dying. The Statue turns on at just the right time for you to be walking by it and get linked. That one other dude on the storm world also is near a statue and gets linked.
End End game spoilers
Their initial plan of the sun station failed and then they died, so this whole project was pretty much in standby until the natural decay of the universe caused the sun to go nova on it's own and thus starting the loops of the probe firing and then finding the eye.
here's an endgame-ish story question that probably requires some science shit I don't understand
I don't think I get how the Nomai are causing the loop with the Ash Twin
I know it seems to have something to do with their discovered phenomenon of something appearing through a white hole before it enters the equivalent black hole, but I don't think I get how they're harnessing that into a specific 22 minute loop and using the statues to tie people into it and sending information back
also that just raises the further question of "why isn't everyone on Timber Hearth aware of the time loop since there's a Nomai statue right there," but just maybe nobody goes to that museum
Have you been to the high energy lab, or black hole forge?
I've been to everywhere but the Southern Observatory
which seems irrelevant since I already went to Giant's Deep's core
I'm sure it was explained to me already but my brain's too dumb to connect it and there have been a LOT of concepts thrown at me already
So this pretty much lays it out.
The phenomenon of the the item appearing out of the white hole before it goes through the black hole is tied to the project to have the sun go nova. The Nomai found that with more power they could extend the gap between something appearing before being sent in. The Sun station was designed to super nova the star to generate the energy necessary for the 22 minutes needed for the probe to fly far enough to find the eye distance wise (they knew roughly how far out, just not the exact coordinates), and then repeat over and over again until they actually found the eye, with each loop noting whether it was successful or not.
You start when the probe was finally successful, which then turns on the statues so that the Nomai can turn off the sun station and keep the star from going nova, breaking the loop and to keep folks from dying. The Statue turns on at just the right time for you to be walking by it and get linked. That one other dude on the storm world also is near a statue and gets linked.
lemme see if I have the rest of the implications here right
this is more of a tragic coincidence, right
cause the Sun Station didn't work and the sun going supernova is a natural occurrence, so everything the Nomai left is just kind of vestigial and you're journeying for understanding and making peace with the impending demise rather than figuring out how to stop it
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
here's an endgame-ish story question that probably requires some science shit I don't understand
I don't think I get how the Nomai are causing the loop with the Ash Twin
I know it seems to have something to do with their discovered phenomenon of something appearing through a white hole before it enters the equivalent black hole, but I don't think I get how they're harnessing that into a specific 22 minute loop and using the statues to tie people into it and sending information back
also that just raises the further question of "why isn't everyone on Timber Hearth aware of the time loop since there's a Nomai statue right there," but just maybe nobody goes to that museum
Have you been to the high energy lab, or black hole forge?
I've been to everywhere but the Southern Observatory
which seems irrelevant since I already went to Giant's Deep's core
I'm sure it was explained to me already but my brain's too dumb to connect it and there have been a LOT of concepts thrown at me already
So this pretty much lays it out.
The phenomenon of the the item appearing out of the white hole before it goes through the black hole is tied to the project to have the sun go nova. The Nomai found that with more power they could extend the gap between something appearing before being sent in. The Sun station was designed to super nova the star to generate the energy necessary for the 22 minutes needed for the probe to fly far enough to find the eye distance wise (they knew roughly how far out, just not the exact coordinates), and then repeat over and over again until they actually found the eye, with each loop noting whether it was successful or not.
You start when the probe was finally successful, which then turns on the statues so that the Nomai can turn off the sun station and keep the star from going nova, breaking the loop and to keep folks from dying. The Statue turns on at just the right time for you to be walking by it and get linked. That one other dude on the storm world also is near a statue and gets linked.
lemme see if I have the rest of the implications here right
this is more of a tragic coincidence, right
cause the Sun Station didn't work and the sun going supernova is a natural occurrence, so everything the Nomai left is just kind of vestigial and you're journeying for understanding and making peace with the impending demise rather than figuring out how to stop it
In a sense yes. You'll get a deeper understanding as you finish the game. I would recommend doing the quantum moon stuff if you haven't yet. (I had to use a walk through for that bit but it was still totally worth it).
so this probably doesn't fully track, but one thing the ending makes me think about and kind of my main read on it:
the main quantum mechanic in the game is about observation; something is seen, then no longer seen, and no longer seeing it is what allows it to return
and since you have stopped the time loop and gone to the Eye of the Universe, you are observing the death of the universe in full rather than just your own death being an aspect of it
and due to that observation, the ability to see a universe where one no longer exists, it's my take that your presence is what allows a new universe to come into being
you were there for the lights going out, and someone being there is how the lights can come back on again and something new has arrived
maybe I'm just a real dummy and this is the intended message but I thought that was a really neat needle to thread
I started this around two months back, but I wasn't in the right mood for this sort of game and lost interest before even completing a loop. With the overwhelming amount of recent "Game of the Year" praise I figured I should give it another try. It took an hour or two until it finally "clicked". And then I devoured the game over a span of three days.
This game is amazing. I finished everything and now I can't stop thinking about it.
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Blackhawk1313Demon Hunter for HireTime RiftRegistered Userregular
It’s my personal GOTY and one of my favorite games I’ve ever played. Also @Mr. G that was my interpretation as well.
Your presence very much seems to be the seed of the new universe even as the old one ends.
I am such a fuckin sucker for anything that crosses cultural barriers, universal constants and acts of kindness and appreciation
so the tying off of the new universe also has people sitting 'round the campfire roasting marshmallows and gazing at the stars got me real good
but before that, the campfire scene of just everyone gathered together playing a song one last time and you speak to Solanum, and her one line
"This song is new to me, but I am honored to be a part of it"
guess I must've gone to Giant's Deep because my face is suddenly very wet and it won't stop!! music is a universal translator and we can all appreciate it together even when separated by millions of miles and centuries of time!!
Mr. G on
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I am such a fuckin sucker for anything that crosses cultural barriers, universal constants and acts of kindness and appreciation
so the tying off of the new universe also has people sitting 'round the campfire roasting marshmallows and gazing at the stars got me real good
but before that, the campfire scene of just everyone gathered together playing a song one last time and you speak to Solanum, and her one line
"This song is new to me, but I am honored to be a part of it"
guess I must've gone to Giant's Deep because my face is suddenly very wet and it won't stop!! music is a universal translator and we can all appreciate it together even when separated by millions of miles and centuries of time!!
I've been going into the Outer Wilds Youtube a bit. Mainly prompted by Razbuten making his newest video about it:
I really like this one. It captured one of the things that I thought was most beautiful about the game, which is essentially about how one deals with the apocolypse, and kind of the stages of grief associated with it. Given the way that we as a species are destroying our planet and the toxicity of our civilizations is festering deeper, I thought it was beautiful how this game dealt with it.
Another one I really is this Jacob Geller one. It's basically a tone poem that vibes perfectly with the mood of Outer Wilds. It was my first time watching this guy's stuff, but it got a sub from me.
A little bit ago, Outer Wilds on PS4 updated so it won't corrupt the save files anymore, so I can play it again! The only bad news is that I think I might be bad at it? Here's as far as I've gotten so far, planet by planet.
Timberhearth: I think I'm done? For now at least?
Giant's Deep: Am pretty much done, as far as I can tell. I finished the Quantum Tower, found the secret path to the Statue Lab, explored the cannon construction lab, and managed to lab on the orbital canon itself, but I only found one of the three modules. I learned how to get to the center of the planet, but outside of some deadly jellyfish, I don't see anything there to interact with or explore.
Brittle Hollow: This place has been the bane of my existence so far. I've fallen into that stupid black hole so many times...
I managed to get to the Hanging City (multiple ways!) and raised the Black Hole Lab, but haven't figured out what to do with it or how to get in. I found a way to get to the Southern Observatory, though it may not be the way I'm supposed to. But it was seconds away from the supernova, so I only had time to research the Giant's Deep center of the earth solution before everything went foom. I only have been able to get into the Quantum Knowledge Tower once, and only after it fell into the black hole. I don't know if that's the only way to get in; it feels like I'm missing something there. Oh, and I have no idea what to do with the moon, if anything. I considered launching either my ship or the Nomai shuttle at it using the Gravity Cannon, but no luck yet there.
Hourglass Twins: Having had enough of Brittle Hollow for a bit, I'm starting this planet for a while. I only just found the way into the settlement and have had limited success exploring it. I also found the Gravity Cannon, which gave me the clue for the Interloper.
Interloper: I figured out how to get inside. I made my way through the first part of the ghost matter maze, but still need to get my way through the rest of it.
Unrelated, but I think I figured out what is happening that's causing the suns to go supernova, but not sure how to fix it yet.
EmperorSeth on
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
A little bit ago, Outer Wilds on PS4 updated so it won't corrupt the save files anymore, so I can play it again! The only bad news is that I think I might be bad at it? Here's as far as I've gotten so far, planet by planet.
Timberhearth: I think I'm done? For now at least?
Giant's Deep: Am pretty much done, as far as I can tell. I finished the Quantum Tower, found the secret path to the Statue Lab, explored the cannon construction lab, and managed to lab on the orbital canon itself, but I only found one of the three modules. I learned how to get to the center of the planet, but outside of some deadly jellyfish, I don't see anything there to interact with or explore.
Brittle Hollow: This place has been the bane of my existence so far. I've fallen into that stupid black hole so many times...
I managed to get to the Hanging City (multiple ways!) and raised the Black Hole Lab, but haven't figured out what to do with it or how to get in. I found a way to get to the Southern Observatory, though it may not be the way I'm supposed to. But it was seconds away from the supernova, so I only had time to research the Giant's Deep center of the earth solution before everything went foom. I only have been able to get into the Quantum Knowledge Tower once, and only after it fell into the black hole. I don't know if that's the only way to get in; it feels like I'm missing something there. Oh, and I have no idea what to do with the moon, if anything. I considered launching either my ship or the Nomai shuttle at it using the Gravity Cannon, but no luck yet there.
Hourglass Twins: Having had enough of Brittle Hollow for a bit, I'm starting this planet for a while. I only just found the way into the settlement and have had limited success exploring it. I also found the Gravity Cannon, which gave me the clue for the Interloper.
Interloper: I figured out how to get inside. I made my way through the first part of the ghost matter maze, but still need to get my way through the rest of it.
Unrelated, but I think I figured out what is happening that's causing the suns to go supernova, but not sure how to fix it yet.
A small hint if interested, will keep in spoilers.
It sounds like you may not have reached the “center” of Giant’s Deep.
A little bit ago, Outer Wilds on PS4 updated so it won't corrupt the save files anymore, so I can play it again! The only bad news is that I think I might be bad at it? Here's as far as I've gotten so far, planet by planet.
Timberhearth: I think I'm done? For now at least?
Giant's Deep: Am pretty much done, as far as I can tell. I finished the Quantum Tower, found the secret path to the Statue Lab, explored the cannon construction lab, and managed to lab on the orbital canon itself, but I only found one of the three modules. I learned how to get to the center of the planet, but outside of some deadly jellyfish, I don't see anything there to interact with or explore.
Brittle Hollow: This place has been the bane of my existence so far. I've fallen into that stupid black hole so many times...
I managed to get to the Hanging City (multiple ways!) and raised the Black Hole Lab, but haven't figured out what to do with it or how to get in. I found a way to get to the Southern Observatory, though it may not be the way I'm supposed to. But it was seconds away from the supernova, so I only had time to research the Giant's Deep center of the earth solution before everything went foom. I only have been able to get into the Quantum Knowledge Tower once, and only after it fell into the black hole. I don't know if that's the only way to get in; it feels like I'm missing something there. Oh, and I have no idea what to do with the moon, if anything. I considered launching either my ship or the Nomai shuttle at it using the Gravity Cannon, but no luck yet there.
Hourglass Twins: Having had enough of Brittle Hollow for a bit, I'm starting this planet for a while. I only just found the way into the settlement and have had limited success exploring it. I also found the Gravity Cannon, which gave me the clue for the Interloper.
Interloper: I figured out how to get inside. I made my way through the first part of the ghost matter maze, but still need to get my way through the rest of it.
Unrelated, but I think I figured out what is happening that's causing the suns to go supernova, but not sure how to fix it yet.
A small hint if interested, will keep in spoilers.
It sounds like you may not have reached the “center” of Giant’s Deep.
I believe that you'll come across something that will point you in the direction of that spoiler later, so don't feel like you need to click that spoiler to avoid missing something yet.
Heads up that the most recent update added some pretty cool stuff.
Namely,
you can now meet yourself when you go to get the warp core at the Ash Twins provided you end the previous cycle huddled next to the warp core.
I love that they're still adding stuff to this thing.
wait, how does that work?
why would there be a duplicate of you there? I thought the ash twin project just sent your memories back in time. if there's two of you wouldn't that lead to a paradox like what you can do in the energy lab?
Heads up that the most recent update added some pretty cool stuff.
Namely,
you can now meet yourself when you go to get the warp core at the Ash Twins provided you end the previous cycle huddled next to the warp core.
I love that they're still adding stuff to this thing.
wait, how does that work?
why would there be a duplicate of you there? I thought the ash twin project just sent your memories back in time. if there's two of you wouldn't that lead to a paradox like what you can do in the energy lab?
Presumably you get physically pulled back in time with the warp core when the supernova powers it up while your memories are flung back to the statue? I haven't played in a while to remember if that adds up.
Heads up that the most recent update added some pretty cool stuff.
Namely,
you can now meet yourself when you go to get the warp core at the Ash Twins provided you end the previous cycle huddled next to the warp core.
I love that they're still adding stuff to this thing.
wait, how does that work?
why would there be a duplicate of you there? I thought the ash twin project just sent your memories back in time. if there's two of you wouldn't that lead to a paradox like what you can do in the energy lab?
I guess it sends the entire core construct back in time, not just the data. And the paradox isn't there being two probes, since that happens every time you send the probe through, if only for a moment. The paradox is preventing the probe from entering the portal after it's already exited the other side.
Heads up that the most recent update added some pretty cool stuff.
Namely,
you can now meet yourself when you go to get the warp core at the Ash Twins provided you end the previous cycle huddled next to the warp core.
I love that they're still adding stuff to this thing.
wait, how does that work?
why would there be a duplicate of you there? I thought the ash twin project just sent your memories back in time. if there's two of you wouldn't that lead to a paradox like what you can do in the energy lab?
I guess it sends the entire core construct back in time, not just the data. And the paradox isn't there being two probes, since that happens every time you send the probe through, if only for a moment. The paradox is preventing the probe from entering the portal after it's already exited the other side.
The probe thing means you need your loops to be at least semi-stable, and you being in the core of the Ash Twin would be unstable because there'd be nothing you do within the next loop to re-put them there.
Then again, I guess the whole game is a bunch of unstable loops? Like, you do send your mind back in time at the end of every loop, but the mind you send at the end of a loop isn't the mind you received at the start of it, so if you need stable looping like the probe paradox would suggest, then there shouldn't have been anything to send your mind back in time at the start of the loop.
I guess the probe paradox might just be incongruous with the way time loops work in the rest of the game. Like, we don't see it, but from the probe's perspective, it does go through the portal, and then on the next loop the player uses that information of the probe coming through the portal to make the decision to not start another loop. The answer to the paradox of "where did the probe come from if we never sent it through" is "from the previous loop, where we did send it through," and being able to carry over causality from previous loops works for the whole rest of the game. I guess you could take the angle of "the whole rest of the game takes place within an iterating time loop, the probe paradox is about breaking the loop altogether," but you break the ash twin loop at the end of the game too and there's no paradox.
Hopefully I can join in all the spoiler fun soon! I had a really productive day tonight.
I think I finished up the Interloper, having reached the center of the comet and found the bodies of the two poor bastard Nomai that were there, plus the remnants of what I assume is the source of ghost matter.
Heartened, I headed back to the Sunless City, figuring out the way to the Eye Temple, the Anglerfish room (more on that in a minute) and the High Energy Lab, which means I finally have a decentish idea of what's going on in this game. The notes are still saying there is more to explore here, though, and I'm not sure what it is, unless it involves some experiment I can do at the Lab, or possibly the missing projection tile near the outside entrance.
With the Twins more or less done for now, I finally bit the bullet and went to ... sigh ... the Dark Bramble. Let me tell you something. I've played a lot of survival horror games in my time. I am nonetheless not proud of my reaction the first time one of them woke up and chomped on my ship. I think I'm about 2/3-3/4 done with the Bramble now, having found Feldspar, Escape Pod 3, and the Vessel, though there seems to be a password lock on the bridge and a broken warp core I may need to replace? Not sure about that, and I'm not about to go through that hellish anglerfish minefield again until I am certain.
On the plus side, visiting Feldspar meant I figured out that Giant's Deep center puzzle. These are my favorite "gates" in this game, no weird item or password needed, just a completely out of context solution that you could theoretically solve on your first try.
Now that I explored all of the obvious planets, I'm kind of stymied about my next plan? Finally hit the Quantum Moon? I could, but I still didn't figure out a way to get to the Tower of Quantum Knowledge in time to fully explore it, and I have to find the Quantum signal on the Twins still. Another attempt at the Southern Observatory? Doable, if annoying, and I'm sure I missed at least a few notes there. Back to the orbital cannon remains? I think I was supposed to do something with the module with the cracked airlock before. And there's still that Black Hole Lab, which I still don't know how to get into. Unless....maybe once it's connected up top again, I could get it from the White Fountain Lab?
I'll probably get back to the game again in a day or two. Is my line of thought at the end there correct? If not, I could appreciate maybe a slight nudge in which direction I should explore next at my stage of the game.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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is that in the Ash Twin Project somewhere and I missed it
One of the things that I really like about this game, is that I think it really has a strong respect for science, and just gets it more than just about any other game I've played. I love that the thing that drives all of these creatures is essentially just the quest for knowledge, to illuminate the bigger questions. And the way that the game mechanics reinforce this; the game is all about standing on the shoulders of giants, so to speak, except the giants are the Nomai and your previous looped selves.
I was really able to connect with this on a personal professional level too. In most games, what you are grinding for is usually better technology, and more power. Like, in a JRPG you might spend 4 hours killing slimes because you are just trying to get gold for the better sword (better technology), the next spell (better technology), or higher stats (more power). A lot of times, when you notice the fundamental loop; I'm doing this grind so that I can get bigger numbers so that I can kill bigger monsters, to get me even bigger numbers, it ends up feeling really hollow. In this game though, you repeat these loops over and over, and the reward isn't more power, it's more knowledge.
For a while, I worked at a tech company, and my job was essentially to be part of the team that keeps Moore's Law running (the tech trend of transistor density doubling every two years). It felt very much like a grind for more power and better technology. When we would ship a new node, it would be somewhat gratifying, but it all comes with something of a "for what?" attached to it. Well, on to the next tech node I guess.
Before working there, I was getting my Ph.D. in much more fundamental kinds of science. The types of experiments that I did, and questions that I asked, were very unlikely to produce any meaningful technology in the short term, but every time I published a paper I found it extremely gratifying to know that I helped push the boundaries of knowledge that much further forward. And the creme de le creme was when others used those findings in ways that I never considered to do new and really cool work that I never even considered. Something about that process felt qualitatively different, and more fulfilling, and this game reminded me of that.
I love how nothing that you do in this game is ever really hard. You just need to know how it works, and then it's all pretty straight forward and easy to execute. It's just about running those experiments, failing a bunch, succeeding every once in a while, getting that tiny nugget of knowledge, and moving past it.
Great game.
If you want the 'trick' to the fish it's in the spoiler:
They get old after a bit.
A couple other things:
Quantum mechanics (which is the most scientifically verified theory we've got), very much describes all matter as having a wave-like component that can only vibrate in certain harmonic registers, kind of like a song. So just going that far works with the game ending too.
Also, I loved how if you go to the tower of quantum knowledge from the crossroads, the beam path you take forks in the middle, and you kind of randomly end up taking the left or right path. For me, this was very reminiscent of the particle-like component of the famous double split experiment, which kind of broke open the theory of quantum mechanics. I love this experiment in particular, because like the way things work in this game, it requires little technology and could have been performed at nearly any point during the history of human civilization, but the information gained from it only means anything with added context from past knowledge.
These are some really neat observations/interpretations - thanks for sharing them!
It’s not an easy thing to write a very simple melody that you’re going to hear looped hundreds of times across the game, across multiple instruments, that you never get sick of and is able to shapeshift to the mood, being both friendly and eerie
That being said, if they’re also the one who decided that Feldsparr would be playing the single sustained harmonica note to add to the terrifying hum of Dark Bramble they can go straight to hell
Lore wise it seems to imply that the loop breaks when I remove the core and I'm terrified to risk it until I hear from one of y'all.
Is that if it did delete your save, you wouldn't really lose much. Have to get the coordinates again to write then down, maybe drop by the moon to get the best ending, but you could still finish it in nearly the same amount of time.
End Game stuff
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
I know it seems to have something to do with their discovered phenomenon of something appearing through a white hole before it enters the equivalent black hole, but I don't think I get how they're harnessing that into a specific 22 minute loop and using the statues to tie people into it and sending information back
also that just raises the further question of "why isn't everyone on Timber Hearth aware of the time loop since there's a Nomai statue right there," but just maybe nobody goes to that museum
I've been to everywhere but the Southern Observatory
I'm sure it was explained to me already but my brain's too dumb to connect it and there have been a LOT of concepts thrown at me already
So this pretty much lays it out.
You start when the probe was finally successful, which then turns on the statues so that the Nomai can turn off the sun station and keep the star from going nova, breaking the loop and to keep folks from dying. The Statue turns on at just the right time for you to be walking by it and get linked. That one other dude on the storm world also is near a statue and gets linked.
End End game spoilers
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
lemme see if I have the rest of the implications here right
cause the Sun Station didn't work and the sun going supernova is a natural occurrence, so everything the Nomai left is just kind of vestigial and you're journeying for understanding and making peace with the impending demise rather than figuring out how to stop it
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
uh oh, I'm experiencing every emotion at once simultaneously
I've got quantum emotions and now I weep
Amazing, isn't it?
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
the main quantum mechanic in the game is about observation; something is seen, then no longer seen, and no longer seeing it is what allows it to return
and since you have stopped the time loop and gone to the Eye of the Universe, you are observing the death of the universe in full rather than just your own death being an aspect of it
and due to that observation, the ability to see a universe where one no longer exists, it's my take that your presence is what allows a new universe to come into being
you were there for the lights going out, and someone being there is how the lights can come back on again and something new has arrived
maybe I'm just a real dummy and this is the intended message but I thought that was a really neat needle to thread
This game is amazing. I finished everything and now I can't stop thinking about it.
so the tying off of the new universe also has people sitting 'round the campfire roasting marshmallows and gazing at the stars got me real good
but before that, the campfire scene of just everyone gathered together playing a song one last time and you speak to Solanum, and her one line
"This song is new to me, but I am honored to be a part of it"
guess I must've gone to Giant's Deep because my face is suddenly very wet and it won't stop!! music is a universal translator and we can all appreciate it together even when separated by millions of miles and centuries of time!!
Hell I just got a bit misty reading it.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
I really like this one. It captured one of the things that I thought was most beautiful about the game, which is essentially about how one deals with the apocolypse, and kind of the stages of grief associated with it. Given the way that we as a species are destroying our planet and the toxicity of our civilizations is festering deeper, I thought it was beautiful how this game dealt with it.
Razbuten Video
Another one I really is this Jacob Geller one. It's basically a tone poem that vibes perfectly with the mood of Outer Wilds. It was my first time watching this guy's stuff, but it got a sub from me.
Jacob Geller Video
Giant's Deep: Am pretty much done, as far as I can tell. I finished the Quantum Tower, found the secret path to the Statue Lab, explored the cannon construction lab, and managed to lab on the orbital canon itself, but I only found one of the three modules. I learned how to get to the center of the planet, but outside of some deadly jellyfish, I don't see anything there to interact with or explore.
Brittle Hollow: This place has been the bane of my existence so far. I've fallen into that stupid black hole so many times...
I managed to get to the Hanging City (multiple ways!) and raised the Black Hole Lab, but haven't figured out what to do with it or how to get in. I found a way to get to the Southern Observatory, though it may not be the way I'm supposed to. But it was seconds away from the supernova, so I only had time to research the Giant's Deep center of the earth solution before everything went foom. I only have been able to get into the Quantum Knowledge Tower once, and only after it fell into the black hole. I don't know if that's the only way to get in; it feels like I'm missing something there. Oh, and I have no idea what to do with the moon, if anything. I considered launching either my ship or the Nomai shuttle at it using the Gravity Cannon, but no luck yet there.
Hourglass Twins: Having had enough of Brittle Hollow for a bit, I'm starting this planet for a while. I only just found the way into the settlement and have had limited success exploring it. I also found the Gravity Cannon, which gave me the clue for the Interloper.
Interloper: I figured out how to get inside. I made my way through the first part of the ghost matter maze, but still need to get my way through the rest of it.
Unrelated, but I think I figured out what is happening that's causing the suns to go supernova, but not sure how to fix it yet.
A small hint if interested, will keep in spoilers.
Namely,
I love that they're still adding stuff to this thing.
wait, how does that work?
http://www.audioentropy.com/
right, ok, that makes sense i guess
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Then again, I guess the whole game is a bunch of unstable loops? Like, you do send your mind back in time at the end of every loop, but the mind you send at the end of a loop isn't the mind you received at the start of it, so if you need stable looping like the probe paradox would suggest, then there shouldn't have been anything to send your mind back in time at the start of the loop.
I guess the probe paradox might just be incongruous with the way time loops work in the rest of the game. Like, we don't see it, but from the probe's perspective, it does go through the portal, and then on the next loop the player uses that information of the probe coming through the portal to make the decision to not start another loop. The answer to the paradox of "where did the probe come from if we never sent it through" is "from the previous loop, where we did send it through," and being able to carry over causality from previous loops works for the whole rest of the game. I guess you could take the angle of "the whole rest of the game takes place within an iterating time loop, the probe paradox is about breaking the loop altogether," but you break the ash twin loop at the end of the game too and there's no paradox.
Heartened, I headed back to the Sunless City, figuring out the way to the Eye Temple, the Anglerfish room (more on that in a minute) and the High Energy Lab, which means I finally have a decentish idea of what's going on in this game. The notes are still saying there is more to explore here, though, and I'm not sure what it is, unless it involves some experiment I can do at the Lab, or possibly the missing projection tile near the outside entrance.
With the Twins more or less done for now, I finally bit the bullet and went to ... sigh ... the Dark Bramble. Let me tell you something. I've played a lot of survival horror games in my time. I am nonetheless not proud of my reaction the first time one of them woke up and chomped on my ship. I think I'm about 2/3-3/4 done with the Bramble now, having found Feldspar, Escape Pod 3, and the Vessel, though there seems to be a password lock on the bridge and a broken warp core I may need to replace? Not sure about that, and I'm not about to go through that hellish anglerfish minefield again until I am certain.
On the plus side, visiting Feldspar meant I figured out that Giant's Deep center puzzle. These are my favorite "gates" in this game, no weird item or password needed, just a completely out of context solution that you could theoretically solve on your first try.
Now that I explored all of the obvious planets, I'm kind of stymied about my next plan? Finally hit the Quantum Moon? I could, but I still didn't figure out a way to get to the Tower of Quantum Knowledge in time to fully explore it, and I have to find the Quantum signal on the Twins still. Another attempt at the Southern Observatory? Doable, if annoying, and I'm sure I missed at least a few notes there. Back to the orbital cannon remains? I think I was supposed to do something with the module with the cracked airlock before. And there's still that Black Hole Lab, which I still don't know how to get into. Unless....maybe once it's connected up top again, I could get it from the White Fountain Lab?
I'll probably get back to the game again in a day or two. Is my line of thought at the end there correct? If not, I could appreciate maybe a slight nudge in which direction I should explore next at my stage of the game.