Okay maybe I'm missing something... Where on bottom do you charge it? I see the micro USB port on the top. The bottom has EXT on it next to the headphone port but a USB-C does not fit in there.
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RandomHajileNot actually a SnatcherThe New KremlinRegistered Userregular
Okay maybe I'm missing something... Where on bottom do you charge it? I see the micro USB port on the top. The bottom has EXT on it next to the headphone port but a USB-C does not fit in there.
It’s the big wide port next to the headphone jack. Some controller charging docks have a connector for that. It’s not a standard USB port because it was also intended for things like the upcoming paddle addition or a theoretical keyboard attachment (like the PS3 had). Additionally, if USB-C had reached a critical mass enough to be included on the bottom, wouldn’t they just make the one on top a USB-C port also?
Okay maybe I'm missing something... Where on bottom do you charge it? I see the micro USB port on the top. The bottom has EXT on it next to the headphone port but a USB-C does not fit in there.
It’s the big wide port next to the headphone jack. Some controller charging docks have a connector for that. It’s not a standard USB port because it was also intended for things like the upcoming paddle addition or a theoretical keyboard attachment (like the PS3 had). Additionally, if USB-C had reached a critical mass enough to be included on the bottom, wouldn’t they just make the one on top a USB-C port also?
In my head they could have tossed it on there after USB-C got popular and left the micro to maintain backwards compatibility.
But honestly Sony would rather you buy new cables anyway. My last controller didn't come with a cable and it still irks me.
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RandomHajileNot actually a SnatcherThe New KremlinRegistered Userregular
Okay maybe I'm missing something... Where on bottom do you charge it? I see the micro USB port on the top. The bottom has EXT on it next to the headphone port but a USB-C does not fit in there.
It’s the big wide port next to the headphone jack. Some controller charging docks have a connector for that. It’s not a standard USB port because it was also intended for things like the upcoming paddle addition or a theoretical keyboard attachment (like the PS3 had). Additionally, if USB-C had reached a critical mass enough to be included on the bottom, wouldn’t they just make the one on top a USB-C port also?
In my head they could have tossed it on there after USB-C got popular and left the micro to maintain backwards compatibility.
But honestly Sony would rather you buy new cables anyway. My last controller didn't come with a cable and it still irks me.
I mean, there’s really nothing to be backwards compatible with except some cheap controller docks. The other end of the USB cable can still be USB-A like always.
In any case, personally I’m looking forward to all of the systems’ controllers using USB-C for charging and data (though I bet MS will still use AA batteries).
“Oh they do that so you don’t get stuck with a rechargeable battery that you can’t replace! Just buy rechargeable AAs or an aftermarket rechargeable battery pack, nbd.”
You know what comes with a replaceable rechargeable battery that is cheap and works just fine for years? Cordless house phones. I had one with a replaceable battery like 8 years before I got a controller with a rechargeable battery.
Backwards compatibility for the charging cables since Sony isn't interested in providing cables when you buy a controller any way.
USB-C is the light. As someone who has the worst luck I think I'm at 15% at being able to plug in the micro-USB cable on the first try. And more often than not I do it 3 times somehow.
I don';t think it has been posted here yet, but the "free" games for January 2020 are
Uncharted: The Nathan Drake Collection
Goat Simulator
If you somehow haven't played the Uncharted Series yet, this is your chance. It's actually kind of fun to see the incremental improvements in game design as Naughty Dog got better at making games. Not that the first game is bad (it isn't) it's just that the later ones are "better".
That’s great actually. My wife watched me play the third game and loved it. She wanted to play the first couple but doesn’t want to pull the PS3 out of storage to do it.
I can't understand how. That movie seems like it'd be easy to make: National Treasure but without the schlock.
It’s 100% studio meddling. I was really looking forward to Dan Trachtenberg’s version, because he is a legitimately huge fan of the games. He left over the classic “creative differences” according to a post on his Twitter.
Okay maybe I'm missing something... Where on bottom do you charge it? I see the micro USB port on the top. The bottom has EXT on it next to the headphone port but a USB-C does not fit in there.
It’s the big wide port next to the headphone jack. Some controller charging docks have a connector for that. It’s not a standard USB port because it was also intended for things like the upcoming paddle addition or a theoretical keyboard attachment (like the PS3 had). Additionally, if USB-C had reached a critical mass enough to be included on the bottom, wouldn’t they just make the one on top a USB-C port also?
Okay maybe I'm missing something... Where on bottom do you charge it? I see the micro USB port on the top. The bottom has EXT on it next to the headphone port but a USB-C does not fit in there.
It’s the big wide port next to the headphone jack. Some controller charging docks have a connector for that. It’s not a standard USB port because it was also intended for things like the upcoming paddle addition or a theoretical keyboard attachment (like the PS3 had). Additionally, if USB-C had reached a critical mass enough to be included on the bottom, wouldn’t they just make the one on top a USB-C port also?
In my head they could have tossed it on there after USB-C got popular and left the micro to maintain backwards compatibility.
But honestly Sony would rather you buy new cables anyway. My last controller didn't come with a cable and it still irks me.
I mean, there’s really nothing to be backwards compatible with except some cheap controller docks. The other end of the USB cable can still be USB-A like always.
In any case, personally I’m looking forward to all of the systems’ controllers using USB-C for charging and data (though I bet MS will still use AA batteries).
“Oh they do that so you don’t get stuck with a rechargeable battery that you can’t replace! Just buy rechargeable AAs or an aftermarket rechargeable battery pack, nbd.”
You know what comes with a replaceable rechargeable battery that is cheap and works just fine for years? Cordless house phones. I had one with a replaceable battery like 8 years before I got a controller with a rechargeable battery.
Sorry for the tangent.
Replaceable batteries for controllers are fundamentally better than fixed ones that are quite literally designed to be thrown away with their controllers. That's a simple reality. Until the manufacturer offers a clear way for any consumer to swap them--like Sony has with hard drives, for example, even though those have far longer lifetimes--that's going to stay true. And then there's the pure benefit of being able to quickly swap a battery for a spare.
Xbox controllers coming with Duracell AA batteries (with an option to buy a battery pack, or use your own Eneloops or another battery that is obviously superior to anything Sony or Microsoft will bundle with their basic controllers) doesn't change that. This is the difference between "get a new battery or batteries for your controller (and fortunately you have a lot of options)" and "throw you controller away, because tough shit."
Arguably the ideal solution is a controller with a replaceable battery that you can still charge via a standard cable--that still works with the most common batteries in the world. Fortunately, these already exist for Xbox. If Sony put out a DS4 with a swap-able battery of any kind, I wouldn't use anything else with my Playstation. I have a "limited edition Season of Play" metallic grey DS4 that is, eventually, going to stop being wireless (or stop working entirely) because of the laws of physics. I'll be sad when it does, because I think it's one of the nicer controllers for the console.
EDIT: But Sony could do worse. I'm fine with Micro-USB being replaced by USB-C, though I'm skeptical how much faster that's going to be for charging. But a Dualshock with some sort of Apple-esque proprietary cable? Fuck that noise. Micro-USB would be better, every day of the week.
Synthesis on
+2
RandomHajileNot actually a SnatcherThe New KremlinRegistered Userregular
Okay maybe I'm missing something... Where on bottom do you charge it? I see the micro USB port on the top. The bottom has EXT on it next to the headphone port but a USB-C does not fit in there.
It’s the big wide port next to the headphone jack. Some controller charging docks have a connector for that. It’s not a standard USB port because it was also intended for things like the upcoming paddle addition or a theoretical keyboard attachment (like the PS3 had). Additionally, if USB-C had reached a critical mass enough to be included on the bottom, wouldn’t they just make the one on top a USB-C port also?
Not at all theoretical, it exists:
That’s Bluetooth. I’m specifically talking about a device that just piggybacks on the data transmission via the special port.
Edit: with that being said, I forgot that the PS3 Controller Keyboard was also Bluetooth when I wrote that originally.
Okay maybe I'm missing something... Where on bottom do you charge it? I see the micro USB port on the top. The bottom has EXT on it next to the headphone port but a USB-C does not fit in there.
It’s the big wide port next to the headphone jack. Some controller charging docks have a connector for that. It’s not a standard USB port because it was also intended for things like the upcoming paddle addition or a theoretical keyboard attachment (like the PS3 had). Additionally, if USB-C had reached a critical mass enough to be included on the bottom, wouldn’t they just make the one on top a USB-C port also?
In my head they could have tossed it on there after USB-C got popular and left the micro to maintain backwards compatibility.
But honestly Sony would rather you buy new cables anyway. My last controller didn't come with a cable and it still irks me.
I mean, there’s really nothing to be backwards compatible with except some cheap controller docks. The other end of the USB cable can still be USB-A like always.
In any case, personally I’m looking forward to all of the systems’ controllers using USB-C for charging and data (though I bet MS will still use AA batteries).
“Oh they do that so you don’t get stuck with a rechargeable battery that you can’t replace! Just buy rechargeable AAs or an aftermarket rechargeable battery pack, nbd.”
You know what comes with a replaceable rechargeable battery that is cheap and works just fine for years? Cordless house phones. I had one with a replaceable battery like 8 years before I got a controller with a rechargeable battery.
Sorry for the tangent.
Replaceable batteries for controllers are fundamentally better than fixed ones that are quite literally designed to be thrown away with their controllers. That's a simple reality. Until the manufacturer offers a clear way for any consumer to swap them--like Sony has with hard drives, for example, even though those have far longer lifetimes--that's going to stay true. And then there's the pure benefit of being able to quickly swap a battery for a spare.
Xbox controllers coming with Duracell AA batteries (with an option to buy a battery pack, or use your own Eneloops or another battery that is obviously superior to anything Sony or Microsoft will bundle with their basic controllers) doesn't change that. This is the difference between "get a new battery or batteries for your controller (and fortunately you have a lot of options)" and "throw you controller away, because tough shit."
Arguably the ideal solution is a controller with a replaceable battery that you can still charge via a standard cable. Fortunately, these already exist for Xbox. If Sony put out a DS4 with a swap-able battery of any kind, I wouldn't use anything else with my Playstation. I have a "limited edition Season of Play" metallic grey DS4 that is, eventually, going to stop being wireless (or stop working entirely) because of the laws of physics. I'll be sad when it does, because I think it's one of the nicer controllers for the console.
EDIT: But Sony could do worse. I'm fine with Micro-USB being replaced by USB-C, though I'm skeptical how much faster that's going to be for charging. But a Dualshock with some sort of Apple-esque proprietary cable? Fuck that noise. Micro-USB would be better, every day of the week.
Maybe I wasn’t clear on a few things.
I would prefer if Sony used replaceable batteries, of course! I just think the idea of MS using AAs is also imperfect (as you mentioned in your ideal case). Because then it means you can’t charge your controller with the cable that can connect to your controller. You’re stuck with Eneloops or some battery pack that has to be charged a different way.
Portable household phones have had replaceable rechargeable batteries for decades. And they’re cheap, too.
Also it’s a real pain but you can replace DS4 batteries. I’d only do it if I had a special controller like you do, but honestly you’re more likely to have a mechanical issue before you have a major battery failure. My dad has my old white Destiny DS4 and he only now started having trouble with the right trigger repeating trigger pulls. Battery’s fine though.
On the topic of USB-C, it can charge way faster if the wall wart and the device are able to charge at 15 volts instead of the old USB standard of 5 volts. This is how the Switch and even many laptops can charge from USB-C.
I highly doubt Sony is going with a proprietary standard this time around but I’m not sure they’ll allow 15V USB-C.
For what it's worth, it's not terribly hard to replace a dualshock battery. It has the standard hurdles of tiny screws (but phillip heads, not those tri screws Nintendo sometimes uses), a plastic shell that feels like you're going to snap the whole thing when you're trying to open it for the first time, and detaching a tiny jumper cable that might be tricky if you got fat fingers. But it is easily done by an amature following a video, even though it's basically designed not to be easily done.
Despite mentioning Nintendo tri screws, they're almost the exact opposite with the pro controller. Tiny phillip screws again, but the back plate just clips on, and the battery is front and center and simply pops right out. The thing is virtually designed to be replaceable.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Okay maybe I'm missing something... Where on bottom do you charge it? I see the micro USB port on the top. The bottom has EXT on it next to the headphone port but a USB-C does not fit in there.
It’s the big wide port next to the headphone jack. Some controller charging docks have a connector for that. It’s not a standard USB port because it was also intended for things like the upcoming paddle addition or a theoretical keyboard attachment (like the PS3 had). Additionally, if USB-C had reached a critical mass enough to be included on the bottom, wouldn’t they just make the one on top a USB-C port also?
In my head they could have tossed it on there after USB-C got popular and left the micro to maintain backwards compatibility.
But honestly Sony would rather you buy new cables anyway. My last controller didn't come with a cable and it still irks me.
I mean, there’s really nothing to be backwards compatible with except some cheap controller docks. The other end of the USB cable can still be USB-A like always.
In any case, personally I’m looking forward to all of the systems’ controllers using USB-C for charging and data (though I bet MS will still use AA batteries).
“Oh they do that so you don’t get stuck with a rechargeable battery that you can’t replace! Just buy rechargeable AAs or an aftermarket rechargeable battery pack, nbd.”
You know what comes with a replaceable rechargeable battery that is cheap and works just fine for years? Cordless house phones. I had one with a replaceable battery like 8 years before I got a controller with a rechargeable battery.
Sorry for the tangent.
Replaceable batteries for controllers are fundamentally better than fixed ones that are quite literally designed to be thrown away with their controllers. That's a simple reality. Until the manufacturer offers a clear way for any consumer to swap them--like Sony has with hard drives, for example, even though those have far longer lifetimes--that's going to stay true. And then there's the pure benefit of being able to quickly swap a battery for a spare.
Xbox controllers coming with Duracell AA batteries (with an option to buy a battery pack, or use your own Eneloops or another battery that is obviously superior to anything Sony or Microsoft will bundle with their basic controllers) doesn't change that. This is the difference between "get a new battery or batteries for your controller (and fortunately you have a lot of options)" and "throw you controller away, because tough shit."
Arguably the ideal solution is a controller with a replaceable battery that you can still charge via a standard cable. Fortunately, these already exist for Xbox. If Sony put out a DS4 with a swap-able battery of any kind, I wouldn't use anything else with my Playstation. I have a "limited edition Season of Play" metallic grey DS4 that is, eventually, going to stop being wireless (or stop working entirely) because of the laws of physics. I'll be sad when it does, because I think it's one of the nicer controllers for the console.
EDIT: But Sony could do worse. I'm fine with Micro-USB being replaced by USB-C, though I'm skeptical how much faster that's going to be for charging. But a Dualshock with some sort of Apple-esque proprietary cable? Fuck that noise. Micro-USB would be better, every day of the week.
Maybe I wasn’t clear on a few things.
I would prefer if Sony used replaceable batteries, of course! I just think the idea of MS using AAs is also imperfect (as you mentioned in your ideal case). Because then it means you can’t charge your controller with the cable that can connect to your controller. You’re stuck with Eneloops or some battery pack that has to be charged a different way.
Portable household phones have had replaceable rechargeable batteries for decades. And they’re cheap, too.
Also it’s a real pain but you can replace DS4 batteries. I’d only do it if I had a special controller like you do, but honestly you’re more likely to have a mechanical issue before you have a major battery failure. My dad has my old white Destiny DS4 and he only now started having trouble with the right trigger repeating trigger pulls. Battery’s fine though.
On the topic of USB-C, it can charge way faster if the wall wart and the device are able to charge at 15 volts instead of the old USB standard of 5 volts. This is how the Switch and even many laptops can charge from USB-C.
I highly doubt Sony is going with a proprietary standard this time around but I’m not sure they’ll allow 15V USB-C.
You've struck on why Microsoft relying on literally the most common battery standard on planet Earth isn't the worst evil. Or even a minor evil. Or even evil. "Mildly inconvenient but worlds better than the alternative." Common experience seems to be that DS4 will either unexpected suffer a mechanical failure, or an expected battery failure. An Xbox controller only faces one of these (and it does, certainly, but that's still better than both). It goes into "Hey, this is actually pretty great," when you consider the variety of excellent Ni-MH batteries are out there, some even included replacement plans (because even they will die eventually). The two Panasonic Eneloops inside an Xbox One controller give it twice the practical lifetime of my less-than-a-year DS4, possibly more.
But to repeat, I don't begrudge anyone who wishes they offered a controller SKU with a rechargeable battery pack. That being said, only that would still be arguably inferior to what we have now. As usual, "more options" is better than "fewer." I regret not having articulated it better, but having a controller that is compatible with the world's most common batteries is still a positive, even if you rather not use them, just like there are people who'd rather not use a cable to charge their phones or use a headphone jack to listen to music.
EDIT: Inevitably, Sony, as a company that has been around a long time, has a history with "stupid proprietary power cables", it's just a lot less recent then "stupid proprietary storage solutions". But those were with cameras, I think, so I agree that we're probably quite safe from that infecting the Dualshock 5.
Synthesis on
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RandomHajileNot actually a SnatcherThe New KremlinRegistered Userregular
I think we’re basically in agreement here, but let me go a little Devil’s Advocate here. Yes, the AA is ubiquitous, but how many people do you think are going to go get Eneloops (or even know about them)? So then you’re left with all these depleted AAs that just get thrown away by most people. Additionally AAs are notorious for going bad and leaking. I have one 360 controller that has a battery stuck in the casing, and another where the battery casing is ruined by battery acid.
Now on the other hand, what is the cost on the environment of even the production of NiMH, Li-Ion, and LiPo batteries? I dunno.
And another small tangent: wireless charging is convenient but man people were already really bad about wasting charge cycles on their phones without the ability to pick it up and put it back down. Just another piece of planned obsolescence IMO.
I think we’re basically in agreement here, but let me go a little Devil’s Advocate here. Yes, the AA is ubiquitous, but how many people do you think are going to go get Eneloops (or even know about them)? So then you’re left with all these depleted AAs that just get thrown away by most people. Additionally AAs are notorious for going bad and leaking. I have one 360 controller that has a battery stuck in the casing, and another where the battery casing is ruined by battery acid.
Now on the other hand, what is the cost on the environment of even the production of NiMH, Li-Ion, and LiPo batteries? I dunno.
And another small tangent: wireless charging is convenient but man people were already really bad about wasting charge cycles on their phones without the ability to pick it up and put it back down. Just another piece of planned obsolescence IMO.
I see where you're going, but as you pointed out, you're not looking at the leaking (or for that matter, the much higher fire risk) in Lithium batteries. The ubiquity of AA batteries is a reason for their inclusion. People buying poor quality AA batteries, rechargeable otherwise, doesn't discount their use anymore than people buying shitty rechargeable packs for a controller.
Environmental impact is one of thousands of aspects about the controller we can consider (to start, lots of countries actually have recycling policies for AA batteries--how many do that for "broken" game controllers?). But I think we're probably more concerned with flexibility--I know I keep harping on it.
Not really looking for a fight here, but I'd like to point to the ubiquity of the mobile phone and its non-replaceable batteries as the intended model here. Arguing the a controller using AA batteries is somehow "better" (or even more convenient) than a built in battery feels to me a bit like resistance to change.
There are many advantages to using built-in rechargable batteries vs disposable zinc-carbon or alkaline batteries including power density, reliability, lifespan, cost and environmental factors. Having said that, I admit that in the rare case when you need to instantly make a controller work, popping in some disposable batteries to power it up is mighty convenient. But I think the vast majority of users (myself included) just leave a controller sitting on a charger 99% of the time as a backup, so outside of the rare case when a mate pops in to play, it's not normally an issue.
Personally, I had three DS3 controllers that I bought with my launch day "fatty" PS3 and I sold two of them on eBay when I upgraded to the PS4. All three held a charge for reasonable time when I sold them off. I currently have four DS4 controllers that were purchased alongside my PS4. Maybe I'm an outlier, but seven controllers, zero battery issues.
Yeah I mean the DS4 has a short battery life in comparison to the Switch Pro Controller. I think the DS4s are a little poorly made... I'm on my 3rd PS4 controller. The sticks start getting some drift in them and there's not much I can do about it.
I would prefer to go back to AAs if only because they added some weight to them.
urahonky on
+1
Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Not really looking for a fight here, but I'd like to point to the ubiquity of the mobile phone and its non-replaceable batteries as the intended model here. Arguing the a controller using AA batteries is somehow "better" (or even more convenient) than a built in battery feels to me a bit like resistance to change.
There are many advantages to using built-in rechargable batteries vs disposable zinc-carbon or alkaline batteries including power density, reliability, lifespan, cost and environmental factors. Having said that, I admit that in the rare case when you need to instantly make a controller work, popping in some disposable batteries to power it up is mighty convenient. But I think the vast majority of users (myself included) just leave a controller sitting on a charger 99% of the time as a backup, so outside of the rare case when a mate pops in to play, it's not normally an issue.
I think it's because the vast majority of users, yourself included, don't have much of a choice. The vast majority of Xbox controller users--if the Xbox thread is any indication--don't leave their controllers plugged into charging docks (even if they own a dock-like option), and prefer exchangeable batteries. Where I live in the United States, the recycling options for disposable batteries are still better than the ones for "nonworking video game controller"--and it's pretty common sense that "risk of a battery leak" is a far rarer scenario than "hot-swapping controller battery".
This isn't climate change or world malnutrition obviously. It's a video game issue. But here, replaceable batteries are more convenient and better. It's that simple. If you want to throw away your controller because the rechargeable batteries inside it died, you can go right ahead and do that. Unsurprisingly, no one using an Xbox controller--and they're popular controllers beyond the console--wants to, as far as i can tell. Some of them want to use battery packs as standard (and not pay an additional fee), which is fine. Just as many are fine using AA batteries, considering how absurdly broad the options are.
Now, if Microsoft wants to emulate Sony because pressuring users to dispose of their controllers, rather than keep them, is preferable for the bottom line, that's a separate issue.
Yeah I mean the DS4 has a short battery life in comparison to the Switch Pro Controller. I think the DS4s are a little poorly made... I'm on my 3rd PS4 controller. The sticks start getting some drift in them and there's not much I can do about it.
I would prefer to go back to AAs if only because they added some weight to them.
Yeah, one of the first bits of advice I got in the Playstation thread (not this one, as far as I recall was): "Hey, that's a pretty cool controller! But if you're worried about it lasting, you should probably by another one and use that instead." Followed by a lot of agreements, including one from someone who owned the other "Season of Play" machine that was blue.
I'm not going to claim to speak for everyone, but "Buy another controller because that one is eventually going to stop working," really isn't a great argument for "The beauty of fewer user options."
Why not both? The internal battery for the DS4 is low-capacity and prone to dying, while the internal battery for the Switch Pro controller is the most ludicrously long-lasting thing I've ever used.
Why not both? The internal battery for the DS4 is low-capacity and prone to dying, while the internal battery for the Switch Pro controller is the most ludicrously long-lasting thing I've ever used.
Arguably the ideal solution is a controller with a replaceable battery that you can still charge via a standard cable--that still works with the most common batteries in the world. Fortunately, these already exist for Xbox. If Sony put out a DS4 with a swap-able battery of any kind, I wouldn't use anything else with my Playstation.
So the option exists, but it requires an additional purchase (as oppose to...cracking a DS4 open and voiding the warranty and trying not to break it).
I don't know what Sony's policy will be going forward, but Microsoft claims they will support existing Xbox One peripherals--most obviously controllers--on the Series X. If they keep their word, whatever design changes they make on controllers will have to contend with tens of millions (possibly more than a hundred million, considering >40 million consoles and the widespread use on PC) of gamepads already out in the wild. That's excluding the millions that are still in unused stock. If that remains policy.
So you can have both right now, and potentially in the future. So far, the only Xbox One controller with an integral battery pack is the Elite Series 2. Maybe that's intended as the design going forward. That still leaves tens or a hundred million old controllers that don't though.
if the controller is dead and not under warranty, are you losing anything by cracking it open and replacing the battery yourself? And if it IS under warranty then can't you resolve it via the warranty?
if the controller is dead and not under warranty, are you losing anything by cracking it open and replacing the battery yourself? And if it IS under warranty then can't you resolve it via the warranty?
The last time I cracked open my PS4 controller it didn't close right and I ended up having to throw it away.
They're not always designed with being "resealed" in mind. The Staadia controller is particularly guilty of this, though admittedly, it's not like thousands of those have been systematically taken apart.
I've literally never heard of anyone getting Sony to replace a DS4 via the warranty due to "dead battery", but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
Where I lived in the United States, I had rooftop solar PV and the personal cost to buy disposable batteries was infinitely higher than the cost of the "free" electricity that I used to keep all of my controllers topped up, and orders of magnitude less convenient than just pulling a controller off the dock and start using it. Not to mention that I would need to drive to a store to buy the batteries and to the disposal site to get rid of the used ones.
Where I live now, in Australia, battery recycling isn't even a thing at all. Disposing of a used up controller is exactly the same as disposing of batteries. And I'm quite sure that non-removable batteries (regardless of how short of a lifespan they have) last longer and present less of an environmental issue than tossing out removable AA cells after every 10 hours of use.
Obviously I'm not typical, but from my point of view using disposable batteries is inconvenient, expensive and a major disadvantage. Having said that, I'm not sure why this is even a discussion point. I'm pretty sure than no one is saying "I'm not going to buy <Console_Name> because the controllers use the wrong kind of batteries." If they are, then I would question their priorities.
In positive news: apparently Sony updated their current sales metrics and there are 106 million PS4s in the world now!
In Taiwan, not only are rechargeable batteries widely available--which they are in the United States--there are also very clear, and very much enforced, regulations on recycling disposable batteries, rechargeable batteries (like the ones in your DS4 that are dying), along with other refuse.
Unsurprising, small broken electronics are thrown away all the time. Because everyone knows what AA batteries are, and not everyone knows how to dismantle every kind of electronic appliance. Recycling batteries is an order of magnitude cleaner than what happens to "broken" controllers because the same facilities aren't paid to fix your broken electronics, or meticulously dismantle them, including video game controllers. Fun fact: for years in Taichung, many convenience stores will give you a tiny discount coupon if you leave them dead batteries for processing and disposal, about 25 to 50 cents typically. If you leave them a nonworking Dualshock 4, they'll ask you to take it back, because you're being weird.
If were choosing options based on environmental concerns, which I suspect we're not. We're probably just bringing it up in an attempt to defend reducing consumer choice. It also doesn't change the fact that, even if you stopped supporting the world's most prolific battery standard, you could still design a removable battery, and one less option will still be more than none at all. Unless you really want your users to toss their smartphone controller and buy a new one.
EDIT: Also, your rooftop solar panel sounds extremely cool, but I'm going to go ahead and say that my wall AA-battery charger, and Eneloop batteries, are vastly more common.
Also a question: in lieu of taking a photo of my screen, what's the easiest way to get a captured screenshot (or video) onto my PC? Preferably without using my phone at all, if possible?
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Also a question: in lieu of taking a photo of my screen, what's the easiest way to get a captured screenshot (or video) onto my PC? Preferably without using my phone at all, if possible?
The battery in the DS4 is super easy to change and very cheap as well. Personally I prefer a longer charge on mine so I always buy a new battery from Adafruit with a higher capacity. It takes about 10 minutes to change one out and I have yet to break one out of the three I have done it on. Plus a 10 to 12 hour battery life is no joke. I think that the longer lasting, but more expensive, rechargeable batteries are the clear winner if only because of how many non rechargeable batteries they can replace.
Also a question: in lieu of taking a photo of my screen, what's the easiest way to get a captured screenshot (or video) onto my PC? Preferably without using my phone at all, if possible?
A USB stick or twitter.
Oh. I was hoping for some cloud storage. Well, USB it is.
if the controller is dead and not under warranty, are you losing anything by cracking it open and replacing the battery yourself? And if it IS under warranty then can't you resolve it via the warranty?
The last time I cracked open my PS4 controller it didn't close right and I ended up having to throw it away.
but it was already dead right? I mean, i'm not arguing that having replaceable batteries would be nice (it would, why wouldn't). I'm just saying your net loss was nothing. you had a useless controller and ended with a useless controller.
sorry, maybe i misunderstood what the debate was about.
Also a question: in lieu of taking a photo of my screen, what's the easiest way to get a captured screenshot (or video) onto my PC? Preferably without using my phone at all, if possible?
A USB stick or twitter.
Oh. I was hoping for some cloud storage. Well, USB it is.
You can post screenshots using the PSN messaging system. And then you can log into www.playstation.com on your PSN account and look at your messages and grab the screenshot there. This is the way that I do it when I'm literally too lazy to grab a USB stick.
if the controller is dead and not under warranty, are you losing anything by cracking it open and replacing the battery yourself? And if it IS under warranty then can't you resolve it via the warranty?
The last time I cracked open my PS4 controller it didn't close right and I ended up having to throw it away.
but it was already dead right? I mean, i'm not arguing that having replaceable batteries would be nice (it would, why wouldn't). I'm just saying your net loss was nothing. you had a useless controller and ended with a useless controller.
sorry, maybe i misunderstood what the debate was about.
Well that one was having drift issues. I cracked it up to see if cleaning it would help. But if I was opening it up to replace a battery then it would have been a waste of a $60 controller.
if the controller is dead and not under warranty, are you losing anything by cracking it open and replacing the battery yourself? And if it IS under warranty then can't you resolve it via the warranty?
The last time I cracked open my PS4 controller it didn't close right and I ended up having to throw it away.
but it was already dead right? I mean, i'm not arguing that having replaceable batteries would be nice (it would, why wouldn't). I'm just saying your net loss was nothing. you had a useless controller and ended with a useless controller.
sorry, maybe i misunderstood what the debate was about.
Well that one was having drift issues. I cracked it up to see if cleaning it would help. But if I was opening it up to replace a battery then it would have been a waste of a $60 controller.
I was under the impression that you went from a controller with a dying battery to one that was totally unusable, if you couldn't close it properly. Which is still a loss, especially if it was a nonstandard controller.
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In my head they could have tossed it on there after USB-C got popular and left the micro to maintain backwards compatibility.
But honestly Sony would rather you buy new cables anyway. My last controller didn't come with a cable and it still irks me.
In any case, personally I’m looking forward to all of the systems’ controllers using USB-C for charging and data (though I bet MS will still use AA batteries).
“Oh they do that so you don’t get stuck with a rechargeable battery that you can’t replace! Just buy rechargeable AAs or an aftermarket rechargeable battery pack, nbd.”
You know what comes with a replaceable rechargeable battery that is cheap and works just fine for years? Cordless house phones. I had one with a replaceable battery like 8 years before I got a controller with a rechargeable battery.
Sorry for the tangent.
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USB-C is the light. As someone who has the worst luck I think I'm at 15% at being able to plug in the micro-USB cable on the first try. And more often than not I do it 3 times somehow.
- Uncharted: The Nathan Drake Collection
- Goat Simulator
If you somehow haven't played the Uncharted Series yet, this is your chance. It's actually kind of fun to see the incremental improvements in game design as Naughty Dog got better at making games. Not that the first game is bad (it isn't) it's just that the later ones are "better".I heard Goat Simulator is a funny game so I think I might pick that up.
https://www.polygon.com/2020/1/2/21046456/uncharted-movie-director-ps4-sony-pictures
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Replaceable batteries for controllers are fundamentally better than fixed ones that are quite literally designed to be thrown away with their controllers. That's a simple reality. Until the manufacturer offers a clear way for any consumer to swap them--like Sony has with hard drives, for example, even though those have far longer lifetimes--that's going to stay true. And then there's the pure benefit of being able to quickly swap a battery for a spare.
Xbox controllers coming with Duracell AA batteries (with an option to buy a battery pack, or use your own Eneloops or another battery that is obviously superior to anything Sony or Microsoft will bundle with their basic controllers) doesn't change that. This is the difference between "get a new battery or batteries for your controller (and fortunately you have a lot of options)" and "throw you controller away, because tough shit."
Arguably the ideal solution is a controller with a replaceable battery that you can still charge via a standard cable--that still works with the most common batteries in the world. Fortunately, these already exist for Xbox. If Sony put out a DS4 with a swap-able battery of any kind, I wouldn't use anything else with my Playstation. I have a "limited edition Season of Play" metallic grey DS4 that is, eventually, going to stop being wireless (or stop working entirely) because of the laws of physics. I'll be sad when it does, because I think it's one of the nicer controllers for the console.
EDIT: But Sony could do worse. I'm fine with Micro-USB being replaced by USB-C, though I'm skeptical how much faster that's going to be for charging. But a Dualshock with some sort of Apple-esque proprietary cable? Fuck that noise. Micro-USB would be better, every day of the week.
Edit: with that being said, I forgot that the PS3 Controller Keyboard was also Bluetooth when I wrote that originally.
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I would prefer if Sony used replaceable batteries, of course! I just think the idea of MS using AAs is also imperfect (as you mentioned in your ideal case). Because then it means you can’t charge your controller with the cable that can connect to your controller. You’re stuck with Eneloops or some battery pack that has to be charged a different way.
Portable household phones have had replaceable rechargeable batteries for decades. And they’re cheap, too.
Also it’s a real pain but you can replace DS4 batteries. I’d only do it if I had a special controller like you do, but honestly you’re more likely to have a mechanical issue before you have a major battery failure. My dad has my old white Destiny DS4 and he only now started having trouble with the right trigger repeating trigger pulls. Battery’s fine though.
On the topic of USB-C, it can charge way faster if the wall wart and the device are able to charge at 15 volts instead of the old USB standard of 5 volts. This is how the Switch and even many laptops can charge from USB-C.
I highly doubt Sony is going with a proprietary standard this time around but I’m not sure they’ll allow 15V USB-C.
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Despite mentioning Nintendo tri screws, they're almost the exact opposite with the pro controller. Tiny phillip screws again, but the back plate just clips on, and the battery is front and center and simply pops right out. The thing is virtually designed to be replaceable.
You've struck on why Microsoft relying on literally the most common battery standard on planet Earth isn't the worst evil. Or even a minor evil. Or even evil. "Mildly inconvenient but worlds better than the alternative." Common experience seems to be that DS4 will either unexpected suffer a mechanical failure, or an expected battery failure. An Xbox controller only faces one of these (and it does, certainly, but that's still better than both). It goes into "Hey, this is actually pretty great," when you consider the variety of excellent Ni-MH batteries are out there, some even included replacement plans (because even they will die eventually). The two Panasonic Eneloops inside an Xbox One controller give it twice the practical lifetime of my less-than-a-year DS4, possibly more.
But to repeat, I don't begrudge anyone who wishes they offered a controller SKU with a rechargeable battery pack. That being said, only that would still be arguably inferior to what we have now. As usual, "more options" is better than "fewer." I regret not having articulated it better, but having a controller that is compatible with the world's most common batteries is still a positive, even if you rather not use them, just like there are people who'd rather not use a cable to charge their phones or use a headphone jack to listen to music.
EDIT: Inevitably, Sony, as a company that has been around a long time, has a history with "stupid proprietary power cables", it's just a lot less recent then "stupid proprietary storage solutions". But those were with cameras, I think, so I agree that we're probably quite safe from that infecting the Dualshock 5.
Now on the other hand, what is the cost on the environment of even the production of NiMH, Li-Ion, and LiPo batteries? I dunno.
And another small tangent: wireless charging is convenient but man people were already really bad about wasting charge cycles on their phones without the ability to pick it up and put it back down. Just another piece of planned obsolescence IMO.
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I see where you're going, but as you pointed out, you're not looking at the leaking (or for that matter, the much higher fire risk) in Lithium batteries. The ubiquity of AA batteries is a reason for their inclusion. People buying poor quality AA batteries, rechargeable otherwise, doesn't discount their use anymore than people buying shitty rechargeable packs for a controller.
Environmental impact is one of thousands of aspects about the controller we can consider (to start, lots of countries actually have recycling policies for AA batteries--how many do that for "broken" game controllers?). But I think we're probably more concerned with flexibility--I know I keep harping on it.
There are many advantages to using built-in rechargable batteries vs disposable zinc-carbon or alkaline batteries including power density, reliability, lifespan, cost and environmental factors. Having said that, I admit that in the rare case when you need to instantly make a controller work, popping in some disposable batteries to power it up is mighty convenient. But I think the vast majority of users (myself included) just leave a controller sitting on a charger 99% of the time as a backup, so outside of the rare case when a mate pops in to play, it's not normally an issue.
Personally, I had three DS3 controllers that I bought with my launch day "fatty" PS3 and I sold two of them on eBay when I upgraded to the PS4. All three held a charge for reasonable time when I sold them off. I currently have four DS4 controllers that were purchased alongside my PS4. Maybe I'm an outlier, but seven controllers, zero battery issues.
I would prefer to go back to AAs if only because they added some weight to them.
The new logo was so unexpected... /s :P
I think it's because the vast majority of users, yourself included, don't have much of a choice. The vast majority of Xbox controller users--if the Xbox thread is any indication--don't leave their controllers plugged into charging docks (even if they own a dock-like option), and prefer exchangeable batteries. Where I live in the United States, the recycling options for disposable batteries are still better than the ones for "nonworking video game controller"--and it's pretty common sense that "risk of a battery leak" is a far rarer scenario than "hot-swapping controller battery".
This isn't climate change or world malnutrition obviously. It's a video game issue. But here, replaceable batteries are more convenient and better. It's that simple. If you want to throw away your controller because the rechargeable batteries inside it died, you can go right ahead and do that. Unsurprisingly, no one using an Xbox controller--and they're popular controllers beyond the console--wants to, as far as i can tell. Some of them want to use battery packs as standard (and not pay an additional fee), which is fine. Just as many are fine using AA batteries, considering how absurdly broad the options are.
Now, if Microsoft wants to emulate Sony because pressuring users to dispose of their controllers, rather than keep them, is preferable for the bottom line, that's a separate issue.
Yeah, one of the first bits of advice I got in the Playstation thread (not this one, as far as I recall was): "Hey, that's a pretty cool controller! But if you're worried about it lasting, you should probably by another one and use that instead." Followed by a lot of agreements, including one from someone who owned the other "Season of Play" machine that was blue.
I'm not going to claim to speak for everyone, but "Buy another controller because that one is eventually going to stop working," really isn't a great argument for "The beauty of fewer user options."
So the option exists, but it requires an additional purchase (as oppose to...cracking a DS4 open and voiding the warranty and trying not to break it).
I don't know what Sony's policy will be going forward, but Microsoft claims they will support existing Xbox One peripherals--most obviously controllers--on the Series X. If they keep their word, whatever design changes they make on controllers will have to contend with tens of millions (possibly more than a hundred million, considering >40 million consoles and the widespread use on PC) of gamepads already out in the wild. That's excluding the millions that are still in unused stock. If that remains policy.
So you can have both right now, and potentially in the future. So far, the only Xbox One controller with an integral battery pack is the Elite Series 2. Maybe that's intended as the design going forward. That still leaves tens or a hundred million old controllers that don't though.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
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The last time I cracked open my PS4 controller it didn't close right and I ended up having to throw it away.
I've literally never heard of anyone getting Sony to replace a DS4 via the warranty due to "dead battery", but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
Where I live now, in Australia, battery recycling isn't even a thing at all. Disposing of a used up controller is exactly the same as disposing of batteries. And I'm quite sure that non-removable batteries (regardless of how short of a lifespan they have) last longer and present less of an environmental issue than tossing out removable AA cells after every 10 hours of use.
Obviously I'm not typical, but from my point of view using disposable batteries is inconvenient, expensive and a major disadvantage. Having said that, I'm not sure why this is even a discussion point. I'm pretty sure than no one is saying "I'm not going to buy <Console_Name> because the controllers use the wrong kind of batteries." If they are, then I would question their priorities.
In positive news: apparently Sony updated their current sales metrics and there are 106 million PS4s in the world now!
Unsurprising, small broken electronics are thrown away all the time. Because everyone knows what AA batteries are, and not everyone knows how to dismantle every kind of electronic appliance. Recycling batteries is an order of magnitude cleaner than what happens to "broken" controllers because the same facilities aren't paid to fix your broken electronics, or meticulously dismantle them, including video game controllers. Fun fact: for years in Taichung, many convenience stores will give you a tiny discount coupon if you leave them dead batteries for processing and disposal, about 25 to 50 cents typically. If you leave them a nonworking Dualshock 4, they'll ask you to take it back, because you're being weird.
If were choosing options based on environmental concerns, which I suspect we're not. We're probably just bringing it up in an attempt to defend reducing consumer choice. It also doesn't change the fact that, even if you stopped supporting the world's most prolific battery standard, you could still design a removable battery, and one less option will still be more than none at all. Unless you really want your users to toss their smartphone controller and buy a new one.
EDIT: Also, your rooftop solar panel sounds extremely cool, but I'm going to go ahead and say that my wall AA-battery charger, and Eneloop batteries, are vastly more common.
PSN:Furlion
Oh. I was hoping for some cloud storage. Well, USB it is.
but it was already dead right? I mean, i'm not arguing that having replaceable batteries would be nice (it would, why wouldn't). I'm just saying your net loss was nothing. you had a useless controller and ended with a useless controller.
sorry, maybe i misunderstood what the debate was about.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
You can post screenshots using the PSN messaging system. And then you can log into www.playstation.com on your PSN account and look at your messages and grab the screenshot there. This is the way that I do it when I'm literally too lazy to grab a USB stick.
Well that one was having drift issues. I cracked it up to see if cleaning it would help. But if I was opening it up to replace a battery then it would have been a waste of a $60 controller.
I was under the impression that you went from a controller with a dying battery to one that was totally unusable, if you couldn't close it properly. Which is still a loss, especially if it was a nonstandard controller.