**Trump's record on the military, veterans, and military families:**
- Pardoned a war criminal, which stomped on long standing military values. Trump has no military experience
- Trump mocked Lt. Col. Vindman for his rank and uniform. He threatened said purple heart officer, resulting in the Army providing him protection
- Trump’s Chief of Staff worked—in secret—to deny comprehensive health coverage to Vietnam Vets who have suffered from Agent Orange.
- There is a facility in Tijuana for US veterans that Trump deported. Wounded war vet, Sen Duckworth (D) marked Veterans Day 2019 by visiting this facility
- Russia took control of the main U.S. military facility in Syria abandoned on Trump’s orders. Russia now owns the airstrip we built
- On Oct 7, 2019, Trump abruptly withdrew support from America's allies in Syria after a phone call with Turkey's president (Erdogan). Turkey subsequently bombed US Special Forces.
- Trump sent thousands of American troops to defend the oil assets of the country that perpetrated 9/11
- In Sept 2019, he made an Air Force cargo crew, flying from the U.S. to Kuwait stop in Scotland (where there's no U.S. base) to refuel at a commercial airport (where it costs more), so they could stay overnight at a Trump property (which isn't close to the airport). Trump’s golf courses in Ireland and Scotland are losing money, so he's forcing the military to pay for nights there.
- In Sept, 2019, Pentagon pulled funds for military schools, daycare to pay for Trump's border wall.
- In Aug, 2019, emails revealed that three of Trump's Mar-a-Lago pals, who are now running Veterans Affairs, are rampant with meddling. "They had no experience in veterans affairs (none of them even served in the military) nor underwent any kind of approval process to serve as de facto managers. Yet, with Trump’s approval, they directed actions and criticized operations without any oversight. They wasted valuable staff time in hundreds of pages of communications and meetings, emails show. Emails reveal disdainful attitudes within the department to the trio’s meddling."
- Veterans graves will be "dug up" for the border wall, after Trump instructed aides to seize private property. Trump told officials he would pardon them if they break the law by illegally seizing property
- Children of deployed US troops will no longer get automatic American citizenship if born overseas during deployment. This includes US troops posted abroad for years at a time (August 28, 2019)
- On August 2, 2019, Trump requisitioned military retirement funds towards border wall
- On July 31, 2019, Trump ordered the Navy rescind medals to prosecutors who were prosecuted war criminals
- Trump denied a U.S. Marine of 6 years entry into the United States for his scheduled citizenship interview (Reported July 17, 2019)
- Trump made the U.S. Navy Blue Angels violate ethics rules by having them fly at his July 4th political campaign event (July 4, 2019)
- Trump demanded US military chiefs stand next to him at 4th of July parade (reported July 2, 2019)
- In June, 2019, Trump sent troops to the border to paint the fence for a better "aesthetic appearance"
- Trump used his D-Day interview at a cemetery commemorating fallen US soldiers to attack a Vietnam veteran (June 6, 2019)
- Trump started his D-Day commemoration speech by attacking a private citizen (Bette Midler, of all people) (reported on June 4th, 2019)
- Trump made his 2nd wife, Marla Maples, sign a prenup that would have cut off all child support if Tiffany joined the military (reported June 4th, 2019)
- On May 27, 2019, Trump turned away US military from his Memorial Day speech because they were from the destroyer USS John S. McCain
- Trump ordered the USS John McCain out of sight during his visit to Japan (May 15, 2019). The ship's name was subsequently covered. (May 27, 2019)
- Trump pardoned war criminals (May&Nov, 2019)
- Trump purged 200,000 veterans healthcare applications (due to known administrative errors within VA’s enrollment system) (reported on May 13, 2019)
- Trump deported a spouse of fallen Army soldier killed in Afghanistan, leaving their daughter parentless (April 16, 2019)
- On March 20, 2019, Trump complained that a deceased war hero didn't thank him for his funeral
- On Feb 25, 2019, Trump diverted military housing funds to pay for his border wall. A judge subsequently denied this. In July 2019, SCOTUS ruled that Trump could in fact divert military housing funds to pay for his wall.
- Between 12/22/2018, and 1/25/2019, Trump refused to sign his party's funding bill, which shut down the government, forcing the Coast Guard to go without pay, which made service members rely on food pantries. However, his appointees got a $10,000 pay raise
- He banned service members from serving based on gender identity (1/22/2019)
- He denied female troops access to birth control to limit sexual activity (on-going. Published Jan 18, 2019)
- He tried to deport a marine vet who is a U.S.-born citizen (Jan 16, 2019)
- When a man was caught swindling veterans pensions for high-interest “cash advances," Trump's Consumer Financial Protection Bureau fined him $1. As a reminder, the Trump administration's goal was to dismantle the CFPB, installing Mick Mulvaney as the director, who publicly stated the bureau should be disbanded. (Jan 26, 2019)
- He called a retired general a 'dog' with a 'big, dumb mouth' (Jan 1, 2019)
- He increased privatization of the VA, leading to longer waits and higher taxpayer cost (2018)
- He finally visited troops 2 years after taking office, but only after 154 vacation days at his properties (Dec 26, 2018)
- He revealed a covert Seal Team 5 deployment, including names and faces, on Twitter during his visit to Iraq (Dec 26, 2018)
- Trump lied to deployed troops that he gave them a 10% raise (12/26/2018). He tried giving the military a raise that was lower than the standard living adjustment. Congress told him that idea wasn't going to work. Then after giving them the raise that Congress made him, he lied about it pretending that it was larger than Obama's. It wasn't.
- He fired service members living with HIV just before the 2018 holidays (Dec 19, 2018-present)
- He tried to slash disability and unemployment benefits for Veterans to $0, and eliminate the unemployability extrascheduler rating (Dec 17, 2018)
- He called troops on Thanksgiving and told them he's most thankful for himself (Thanksgiving, 2018)
- He urged Florida to not count deployed military votes (Nov 12, 2018)
- He canceled an Arlington Cemetery visit on Veterans Day due to light rain (Nov 12, 2018)
- While in Europe commemorating the end of WWI, he didn't attend the ceremony at a US cemetery due to the rain -- other world leaders went anyway (Nov 10, 2018)
- He used troops as a political prop by sending them on a phantom mission to the border and made them miss Thanksgiving with their families (Oct-Dec, 2018)
- He stopped using troops as a political prop immediately after the election. However, the troops remained in muddy camps on the border (Nov 7, 2018)
- Trump changed the GI Bill through his Forever GI Act, causing the VA to miss veteran benefits, including housing allowances. This caused many veterans to run out of food and rent. (reported October 7, 2018)
- Trump doubled the rejection rate for veterans requesting family deportation protections (July 5, 2018)
- Trump deported active-duty spouses (11,800 military families face this problem as of April 2018)
- He forgot a fallen soldier's name (below) during a call to his pregnant widow, then attacked her the next day (Oct 23-24, 2017)
- He sent commandos into an ambush due to a lack of intel, and sends contractors to pick them up, resulting in a commando being left behind, tortured, and executed. (Trump approved the mission because Bannon told him Obama didn't have the guts to do it) (Oct 4, 2017)
- He blocked a veteran group on Twitter (June 2017)
- He ordered the discharge of active-duty immigrant troops with good records (2017-present)
- He deported veterans (2017-present)
- He said he knows more about ISIS than American generals (Oct 2016)
- On October 3, 2016, Trump said vets get PTSD because they aren't strong (note: yes, he said it's 'because they aren't strong.' He didn't say it's 'because they're weak.' This distinction is important because of Snopes)
- Trump accepted a Purple Heart from a fan at one of his rallies and said: “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.” (Aug 2, 2016)
- Trump attacks Gold Star families - Myeshia Johnson--gold star widow, Khan family--gold star parents, etc. (2016-present)
- Trump sent funds raised from a January 2016 veterans benefit to the Donald J Trump Foundation instead of veterans charities (the foundation has since been ordered shut because of fraud) (Jan, 2016)
- Trump said he has "more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military" because he went to a military-style academy (2015 biography)
- Trump said he doesn't consider POWs heroes because they were caught. He said he prefers people who were not caught (July 18, 2015)
- Trump said having unprotected sex was his own personal Vietnam (1998)
- For a decade, Trump sought to kick veterans off of Fifth Avenue because he found them unsightly nuisances outside of Trump Tower. “While disabled veterans should be given every opportunity to earn a living, is it fair to do so to the detriment of the city as a whole or its tax paying citizens and businesses?” - 1991
- Trump dodged the draft 5 times by having a doctor diagnose him with bone spurs.
- No Trump in America has *ever* served in the military; this spans 5 generations, and every branch of the family tree. In fact, the reason his grandfather immigrated to America was to avoid military service
This is a really extensive list, but do you have any sources or citations for it? I'd like to post it whole-cloth to some of my more patriotic leaning family, but without citations it comes off a bit too pithy/snarky/judgmental... Which is fine for me, but not for trying to change people's worldview.
**Trump's record on the military, veterans, and military families:**
- Pardoned a war criminal, which stomped on long standing military values. Trump has no military experience
- Trump mocked Lt. Col. Vindman for his rank and uniform. He threatened said purple heart officer, resulting in the Army providing him protection
- Trump’s Chief of Staff worked—in secret—to deny comprehensive health coverage to Vietnam Vets who have suffered from Agent Orange.
- There is a facility in Tijuana for US veterans that Trump deported. Wounded war vet, Sen Duckworth (D) marked Veterans Day 2019 by visiting this facility
- Russia took control of the main U.S. military facility in Syria abandoned on Trump’s orders. Russia now owns the airstrip we built
- On Oct 7, 2019, Trump abruptly withdrew support from America's allies in Syria after a phone call with Turkey's president (Erdogan). Turkey subsequently bombed US Special Forces.
- Trump sent thousands of American troops to defend the oil assets of the country that perpetrated 9/11
- In Sept 2019, he made an Air Force cargo crew, flying from the U.S. to Kuwait stop in Scotland (where there's no U.S. base) to refuel at a commercial airport (where it costs more), so they could stay overnight at a Trump property (which isn't close to the airport). Trump’s golf courses in Ireland and Scotland are losing money, so he's forcing the military to pay for nights there.
- In Sept, 2019, Pentagon pulled funds for military schools, daycare to pay for Trump's border wall.
- In Aug, 2019, emails revealed that three of Trump's Mar-a-Lago pals, who are now running Veterans Affairs, are rampant with meddling. "They had no experience in veterans affairs (none of them even served in the military) nor underwent any kind of approval process to serve as de facto managers. Yet, with Trump’s approval, they directed actions and criticized operations without any oversight. They wasted valuable staff time in hundreds of pages of communications and meetings, emails show. Emails reveal disdainful attitudes within the department to the trio’s meddling."
- Veterans graves will be "dug up" for the border wall, after Trump instructed aides to seize private property. Trump told officials he would pardon them if they break the law by illegally seizing property
- Children of deployed US troops will no longer get automatic American citizenship if born overseas during deployment. This includes US troops posted abroad for years at a time (August 28, 2019)
- On August 2, 2019, Trump requisitioned military retirement funds towards border wall
- On July 31, 2019, Trump ordered the Navy rescind medals to prosecutors who were prosecuted war criminals
- Trump denied a U.S. Marine of 6 years entry into the United States for his scheduled citizenship interview (Reported July 17, 2019)
- Trump made the U.S. Navy Blue Angels violate ethics rules by having them fly at his July 4th political campaign event (July 4, 2019)
- Trump demanded US military chiefs stand next to him at 4th of July parade (reported July 2, 2019)
- In June, 2019, Trump sent troops to the border to paint the fence for a better "aesthetic appearance"
- Trump used his D-Day interview at a cemetery commemorating fallen US soldiers to attack a Vietnam veteran (June 6, 2019)
- Trump started his D-Day commemoration speech by attacking a private citizen (Bette Midler, of all people) (reported on June 4th, 2019)
- Trump made his 2nd wife, Marla Maples, sign a prenup that would have cut off all child support if Tiffany joined the military (reported June 4th, 2019)
- On May 27, 2019, Trump turned away US military from his Memorial Day speech because they were from the destroyer USS John S. McCain
- Trump ordered the USS John McCain out of sight during his visit to Japan (May 15, 2019). The ship's name was subsequently covered. (May 27, 2019)
- Trump pardoned war criminals (May&Nov, 2019)
- Trump purged 200,000 veterans healthcare applications (due to known administrative errors within VA’s enrollment system) (reported on May 13, 2019)
- Trump deported a spouse of fallen Army soldier killed in Afghanistan, leaving their daughter parentless (April 16, 2019)
- On March 20, 2019, Trump complained that a deceased war hero didn't thank him for his funeral
- On Feb 25, 2019, Trump diverted military housing funds to pay for his border wall. A judge subsequently denied this. In July 2019, SCOTUS ruled that Trump could in fact divert military housing funds to pay for his wall.
- Between 12/22/2018, and 1/25/2019, Trump refused to sign his party's funding bill, which shut down the government, forcing the Coast Guard to go without pay, which made service members rely on food pantries. However, his appointees got a $10,000 pay raise
- He banned service members from serving based on gender identity (1/22/2019)
- He denied female troops access to birth control to limit sexual activity (on-going. Published Jan 18, 2019)
- He tried to deport a marine vet who is a U.S.-born citizen (Jan 16, 2019)
- When a man was caught swindling veterans pensions for high-interest “cash advances," Trump's Consumer Financial Protection Bureau fined him $1. As a reminder, the Trump administration's goal was to dismantle the CFPB, installing Mick Mulvaney as the director, who publicly stated the bureau should be disbanded. (Jan 26, 2019)
- He called a retired general a 'dog' with a 'big, dumb mouth' (Jan 1, 2019)
- He increased privatization of the VA, leading to longer waits and higher taxpayer cost (2018)
- He finally visited troops 2 years after taking office, but only after 154 vacation days at his properties (Dec 26, 2018)
- He revealed a covert Seal Team 5 deployment, including names and faces, on Twitter during his visit to Iraq (Dec 26, 2018)
- Trump lied to deployed troops that he gave them a 10% raise (12/26/2018). He tried giving the military a raise that was lower than the standard living adjustment. Congress told him that idea wasn't going to work. Then after giving them the raise that Congress made him, he lied about it pretending that it was larger than Obama's. It wasn't.
- He fired service members living with HIV just before the 2018 holidays (Dec 19, 2018-present)
- He tried to slash disability and unemployment benefits for Veterans to $0, and eliminate the unemployability extrascheduler rating (Dec 17, 2018)
- He called troops on Thanksgiving and told them he's most thankful for himself (Thanksgiving, 2018)
- He urged Florida to not count deployed military votes (Nov 12, 2018)
- He canceled an Arlington Cemetery visit on Veterans Day due to light rain (Nov 12, 2018)
- While in Europe commemorating the end of WWI, he didn't attend the ceremony at a US cemetery due to the rain -- other world leaders went anyway (Nov 10, 2018)
- He used troops as a political prop by sending them on a phantom mission to the border and made them miss Thanksgiving with their families (Oct-Dec, 2018)
- He stopped using troops as a political prop immediately after the election. However, the troops remained in muddy camps on the border (Nov 7, 2018)
- Trump changed the GI Bill through his Forever GI Act, causing the VA to miss veteran benefits, including housing allowances. This caused many veterans to run out of food and rent. (reported October 7, 2018)
- Trump doubled the rejection rate for veterans requesting family deportation protections (July 5, 2018)
- Trump deported active-duty spouses (11,800 military families face this problem as of April 2018)
- He forgot a fallen soldier's name (below) during a call to his pregnant widow, then attacked her the next day (Oct 23-24, 2017)
- He sent commandos into an ambush due to a lack of intel, and sends contractors to pick them up, resulting in a commando being left behind, tortured, and executed. (Trump approved the mission because Bannon told him Obama didn't have the guts to do it) (Oct 4, 2017)
- He blocked a veteran group on Twitter (June 2017)
- He ordered the discharge of active-duty immigrant troops with good records (2017-present)
- He deported veterans (2017-present)
- He said he knows more about ISIS than American generals (Oct 2016)
- On October 3, 2016, Trump said vets get PTSD because they aren't strong (note: yes, he said it's 'because they aren't strong.' He didn't say it's 'because they're weak.' This distinction is important because of Snopes)
- Trump accepted a Purple Heart from a fan at one of his rallies and said: “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.” (Aug 2, 2016)
- Trump attacks Gold Star families - Myeshia Johnson--gold star widow, Khan family--gold star parents, etc. (2016-present)
- Trump sent funds raised from a January 2016 veterans benefit to the Donald J Trump Foundation instead of veterans charities (the foundation has since been ordered shut because of fraud) (Jan, 2016)
- Trump said he has "more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military" because he went to a military-style academy (2015 biography)
- Trump said he doesn't consider POWs heroes because they were caught. He said he prefers people who were not caught (July 18, 2015)
- Trump said having unprotected sex was his own personal Vietnam (1998)
- For a decade, Trump sought to kick veterans off of Fifth Avenue because he found them unsightly nuisances outside of Trump Tower. “While disabled veterans should be given every opportunity to earn a living, is it fair to do so to the detriment of the city as a whole or its tax paying citizens and businesses?” - 1991
- Trump dodged the draft 5 times by having a doctor diagnose him with bone spurs.
- No Trump in America has *ever* served in the military; this spans 5 generations, and every branch of the family tree. In fact, the reason his grandfather immigrated to America was to avoid military service
This is a really extensive list, but do you have any sources or citations for it? I'd like to post it whole-cloth to some of my more patriotic leaning family, but without citations it comes off a bit too pithy/snarky/judgmental... Which is fine for me, but not for trying to change people's worldview.
I don't, just saw it in another forum I post in that someone compiled.
It does miss that one time in 2017, where Trump promised a Soldier’s father money after he was killed in Afghanistan, and Trump tried to renege on it until public pressure forced him to comply.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
What a clusterfuck this whole thing has turned out to be. A few hundred dead between the initial bombing, Soleimani and his car mates, the stampede at his funeral, and the airplane, and for what? The US is in a worse strategic position, Trump’s numbers are down, and the Iranian government, on the cusp of a huge strategic victory, piss away everything by not only shooting down a passenger plane but blatantly lying about it and getting caught out.
I'm not sure that they played the plane response wrong. They stalled out responsibility long enough to prevent Trump from using it to escalate, and admitted it after it had become obvious to everyone else that it was a non-malicious screw up on their part.
Aren't the protests going on in Iran right now much smaller in scale than the anti-government protests that went on over the past few years? So Trump basically made the anti-government protests smaller?
Iranians are dying in their streets, protesting the government killing them. Trying to turn that into yet another dunk on Trump just feels ugly and crass.
While I disagree that trump has had any effect on the protests, he and his party are linking themselves to them, and the narrative being pushed is that whatever chaos trump might have accidentally created with the strike was in fact part of a long game to spur the Iranian people into action all along.
It’s thanks to trump that the protestors are out in the streets is essentially what they’re trying to make happen narratively.
For me it’s less about dunking on trump with the protests size, than being very upset at the idea of trump and the republicans using dead Iranians as proof that their missile strike is part of any kind of strategy that gives a shit about the Iranian people
Also trump retweeted images of bodies, essentially blaming democrats for them, as well as a photoshopped image of chuck Schumer too crass and offensive for me to write about here without vomiting
It does miss that one time in 2017, where Trump promised a Soldier’s father money after he was killed in Afghanistan, and Trump tried to renege on it until public pressure forced him to comply.
That's only part of what makes it so stupid - Trump has got this idea that the protests are against the government in general, instead of against the government for just this one fuckup. He's dreaming of accidentally backing into the collapse of the Iran regime.
If the government of Iran collapses, it's highly unlikely to be replaced with one friendly to America. More likely, Isis II.
It's telling that Iran was built up the way it was since the revolution to keep the levers of power where they are.
By and large your uniformed military are not your true believers - those types are kept in your local militias and are primarily used to keep liberal city denizens in check and to discourage foreign occupiers since an armed decentralized resistance is baked right in.
The military is there in case the inmates decide to try their hand at running the asylum.
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Come Overwatch with meeeee
Trump tries to take credit for everything he perceives as good, and shifts blame for whatever he thinks is bad.
The motherfucker tried to take credit for cancer rates being lower just the other day!
It’s why looking only at trumps actions, his motivations, is kind of a fruitless way to look at us foreign policy. Instead it’s best to examine how his behaviours, statements and attitudes are being worked by the Republican Party. It’s less disturbing now after 3 years of trump to hear him call democrats terrorist lovers, and much more disturbing to hear Nikki Haley proudly say it. We’re reaching a point where the Republican Party isn’t just adopting trumps approach, they’re often doing it first.
It’s all coagulating into a big blob of viciousness that’s taking on a life of its own beyond even Fox News
Trump tries to take credit for everything he perceives as good, and shifts blame for whatever he thinks is bad.
The motherfucker tried to take credit for cancer rates being lower just the other day!
Well... he has been opposing the building of windmills, so I'm sure that had a measurable effect.
It's not just that he makes these claims, it's that they're so easily disprovable (like the cancer rates being on a steady decline for something like 10 years or something). And that the media just shrug and report his statements as fact.
Leading every report with "Pathological liar, President Trump lied again when he said..." probably wouldn't fly, even if it was accurate. But at least fact check the statements as you're broadcasting them. If that means putting the President on a tape delay so you can do so, well, fucking bonus.
I honestly don’t know what a post-post-revolutionary Iran looks like. Probably a civil war between the military and militias and the best case is a military dictatorship after like Egypt.
I think a more likely path to democracy would be waiting out Khamenei and then the more liberal clerics in the elected government trying to reform out the Supreme Leader position after his death. As long as the IRGC has any kind of significant membership that is kind of a hard road though.
Even given that, a truly democratic government may be US unfriendly.
My worried is despite the assassination being an objectively terrible move, Iran's botched response may end up justifying it in the eyes of many. As it makes Iran look even worse and more of an easily painted "bad guy." And they certainly are oppressive bad guys in many respects. But I don't want that being used as an excuse for a ground intervention which would accomplish nothing.
You can argue it's the fault of the US for escalating the situation, but the blame is still on the Iranian SAM operators pulling the trigger without ID'ing the target.
Who wins in war is the side that screws up the least, and despite our blundering, Iran seems to be handling it even worse.
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MeeqeLord of the pants most fancySomeplace amazingRegistered Userregular
Trump tries to take credit for everything he perceives as good, and shifts blame for whatever he thinks is bad.
The motherfucker tried to take credit for cancer rates being lower just the other day!
It’s why looking only at trumps actions, his motivations, is kind of a fruitless way to look at us foreign policy. Instead it’s best to examine how his behaviours, statements and attitudes are being worked by the Republican Party. It’s less disturbing now after 3 years of trump to hear him call democrats terrorist lovers, and much more disturbing to hear Nikki Haley proudly say it. We’re reaching a point where the Republican Party isn’t just adopting trumps approach, they’re often doing it first.
It’s all coagulating into a big blob of viciousness that’s taking on a life of its own beyond even Fox News
It reminds me in form, although lower in intensity, of 2001-2008. The Pubs have never had a problem screaming "Traitor!" at Dems, even prior to Trump. People forget exactly how insanely "patriotic" things were for a handful of years.
This is the GOP. It's what they do, and have done, for generations now. Trump is just less subtle about it.
If Iran's government collapsed it seems more likely to be vicious infighting and potential civil war than violent extremists automatically taking over. That's a pretty diverse country with a pretty diverse politics if you removed this regime. Loosely unified by "fuck imperialist American actions"
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
If Iran's government collapsed it seems more likely to be vicious infighting and potential civil war than violent extremists automatically taking over. That's a pretty diverse country with a pretty diverse politics if you removed this regime. Loosely unified by "fuck imperialist American actions"
Civil war tends to result in violent extremists. Liberal democracy tends to result from lengthy periods of peace allowing the gradual reforming of society.
It does miss that one time in 2017, where Trump promised a Soldier’s father money after he was killed in Afghanistan, and Trump tried to renege on it until public pressure forced him to comply.
I think this is where I first saw the list, myself:
My worried is despite the assassination being an objectively terrible move, Iran's botched response may end up justifying it in the eyes of many. As it makes Iran look even worse and more of an easily painted "bad guy." And they certainly are oppressive bad guys in many respects. But I don't want that being used as an excuse for a ground intervention which would accomplish nothing.
You can argue it's the fault of the US for escalating the situation, but the blame is still on the Iranian SAM operators pulling the trigger without ID'ing the target.
Who wins in war is the side that screws up the least, and despite our blundering, Iran seems to be handling it even worse.
Iran's "botched" response in sending missile attacks against American targets in Iraq was basically the only play they had in the situation, and I'm sure that any halfway competent leaders recognize this. The airline accident is a tragedy, but is also an accident.
The lesson any halfway competent international leader will take away from this is that the US is willing to assassinate leading members of governments that piss them off with basically no repercussions.
My worried is despite the assassination being an objectively terrible move, Iran's botched response may end up justifying it in the eyes of many. As it makes Iran look even worse and more of an easily painted "bad guy." And they certainly are oppressive bad guys in many respects. But I don't want that being used as an excuse for a ground intervention which would accomplish nothing.
You can argue it's the fault of the US for escalating the situation, but the blame is still on the Iranian SAM operators pulling the trigger without ID'ing the target.
Who wins in war is the side that screws up the least, and despite our blundering, Iran seems to be handling it even worse.
Iran's "botched" response in sending missile attacks against American targets in Iraq was basically the only play they had in the situation, and I'm sure that any halfway competent leaders recognize this. The airline accident is a tragedy, but is also an accident.
The lesson any halfway competent international leader will take away from this is that the US is willing to assassinate leading members of governments that piss them off with basically no repercussions.
Trump will take the same lesson too, BTW.
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I ZimbraWorst song, played on ugliest guitarRegistered Userregular
who would even have the standing to sue over the fact that the assassination was super illegal and the administration is not even pretending to have had any justification for it anymore? congress?
who would even have the standing to sue over the fact that the assassination was super illegal and the administration is not even pretending to have had any justification for it anymore? congress?
Matter of fact, this was drone strike, so probably Air Force? If so, court-martial the USAF Chief of Staff (or whichever service is responsible), for following an unlawful order. We need to go full Nuremberg.
In the space of a few days, US policy goes from "kill someone when we know he poses an imminent threat" to "kill someone when we believe he poses an imminent threat" to "kill him because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
In the space of a few days, US policy goes from "kill someone when we know he poses an imminent threat" to "kill someone when we believe he poses an imminent threat" to "kill him because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
I'm pretty sure it's actually "Kill him to appease Senators I need to vote No on convicting me" that we are at right now.
My worried is despite the assassination being an objectively terrible move, Iran's botched response may end up justifying it in the eyes of many. As it makes Iran look even worse and more of an easily painted "bad guy." And they certainly are oppressive bad guys in many respects. But I don't want that being used as an excuse for a ground intervention which would accomplish nothing.
The airliner aside (and as a Canadian I'm aware that's a big fucking aside), I'm not sure how botched their countermove really was.
Iran flattened a couple of US military bases, and the response wasn't the war everyone expected would immediately follow: it was (at least the impression of) Washington immediately backing down while simultaneously completely alienating their host government. For people whose take on international diplomacy boils down to chest-thumping machismo, which seems to be half the parties in the region, it made the United States look pretty timid, especially given a couple of days before it was threatening to bomb Iran out of UNESCO if it so much as blinked.
Nation-states generally don't get away with dropping a dozen tonnes of ordnance on American military facilities without consequences, and this is going to look like an exception to that rule to a lot of people.
My worried is despite the assassination being an objectively terrible move, Iran's botched response may end up justifying it in the eyes of many. As it makes Iran look even worse and more of an easily painted "bad guy." And they certainly are oppressive bad guys in many respects. But I don't want that being used as an excuse for a ground intervention which would accomplish nothing.
The airliner aside (and as a Canadian I'm aware that's a big fucking aside), I'm not sure how botched their countermove really was.
Iran flattened a couple of US military bases, and the response wasn't the war everyone expected would immediately follow: it was (at least the impression of) Washington immediately backing down while simultaneously completely alienating their host government. For people whose take on international diplomacy boils down to chest-thumping machismo, which seems to be half the parties in the region, it made the United States look pretty timid, especially given a couple of days before it was threatening to bomb Iran out of UNESCO if it so much as blinked.
Nation-states generally don't get away with dropping a dozen tonnes of ordnance on American military facilities without consequences, and this is going to look like an exception to that rule to a lot of people.
It was a stronger restatement of the attack on the embassy in Iraq that killed no one. The U.S. government is trying to coerce them with the threat of violence without actually having any justification for or intention of following up on those threats (Trump craziness aside), and they're pointing out the bluff.
At this point do the troops in Iraq serve any purpose except as bait to possibly justify counterattacks?
My worried is despite the assassination being an objectively terrible move, Iran's botched response may end up justifying it in the eyes of many. As it makes Iran look even worse and more of an easily painted "bad guy." And they certainly are oppressive bad guys in many respects. But I don't want that being used as an excuse for a ground intervention which would accomplish nothing.
The airliner aside (and as a Canadian I'm aware that's a big fucking aside), I'm not sure how botched their countermove really was.
Iran flattened a couple of US military bases, and the response wasn't the war everyone expected would immediately follow: it was (at least the impression of) Washington immediately backing down while simultaneously completely alienating their host government. For people whose take on international diplomacy boils down to chest-thumping machismo, which seems to be half the parties in the region, it made the United States look pretty timid, especially given a couple of days before it was threatening to bomb Iran out of UNESCO if it so much as blinked.
Nation-states generally don't get away with dropping a dozen tonnes of ordnance on American military facilities without consequences, and this is going to look like an exception to that rule to a lot of people.
It was a stronger restatement of the attack on the embassy in Iraq that killed no one. The U.S. government is trying to coerce them with the threat of violence without actually having any justification for or intention of following up on those threats (Trump craziness aside), and they're pointing out the bluff.
At this point do the troops in Iraq serve any purpose except as bait to possibly justify counterattacks?
The same purpose they did in Vietnam: allowing us to pretend, as long as possible, that we haven't lost this war.
Trump claimed that he's gotten $1 billion in the bank from the Saudis to pay for US troops. But the Pentagon just confirmed to me the Saudis still have not paid their outstanding bill for refueling costs in the Yemen war. So let's label Trump's statement as highly doubtful.
WaPo fact checker
So either he was straight up lyin', or that $1bn went somewhere other than into the US Treasury...
My guess is on nonsense. While trump would definitely be stupid enough to accept a straight up direct bribe into his bank account, the saudis would likely be more subtle and indirect in their bribes
My guess is on nonsense. While trump would definitely be stupid enough to accept a straight up direct bribe into his bank account, the saudis would likely be more subtle and indirect in their bribes
Like booking rooms in his hotel and not showing up?
"Proof? We ain't got no proof! We don't need no proof! I don't have to show you any stinking proof!"
He sees his best buddies Putin, Kim Jong Un and others do this kind of thing all the time, so he figured why not? The morons who make up his base all love it when he blows up non-white people and the left gets all hot and bothered by stuff like "foreign relationships", "allies", and everything else they don't think we need.
On another note, speaking of Kim, Donald just illustrated to the Iranians why they need a bomb, like, yesterday: because even after how much of a fool Kim keeps making him look like, he still goes back and rolls over to bare his paunchy orange belly because they have The Bomb and he wants to be friends with them because they have the only thing he really understands: something that could make him look so very weak if it goes off.
No bomb: Trump kicks you around for free political points back home.
With bomb: Donald mashes his big orange nose into your asscrack and starts simpering and wanting to be your bestest best buddy.
"Proof? We ain't got no proof! We don't need no proof! I don't have to show you any stinking proof!"
He sees his best buddies Putin, Kim Jong Il and others do this kind of thing all the time, so he figured why not? The morons who make up his base all love it when he blows up non-white people and the left gets all hot and bothered by stuff like "foreign relationships", "allies", and everything else they don't think we need.
On another note, speaking of Kim, Donald just illustrated to the Iranians why they need a bomb, like, yesterday: because even after how much of a fool Kim keeps making him look like, he still goes back and rolls over to bare his paunchy orange belly because they have The Bomb and he wants to be friends with them because they have the only thing he really understands: something that could make him look so very weak if it goes off.
No bomb: Trump kicks you around for free political points back home.
With bomb: Donald mashes his big orange nose into your asscrack and starts simpering and wanting to be your bestest best buddy.
While you're not wrong, I think it's even simpler than that.
It's not that KJU has a bomb that makes Trump subservient. It's that if KJU uses that bomb, which Trump can't stop at this point, it'd mean he'd be not just weak, but a fool.
And if there's one thing Trump would rather avoid, than looking weak, it's looking foolish.
Because he can respond to being weak by doing something "strong". Yeah, his definition of strength, is usually bullying, but he can blow shit up, and the media will eat that with a spoon ("Today, he became President." *vomit*).
He can't as easily disprove foolishness. Not only because he's clearly incapable of it, but also because the media has difficulty interpreting it.
As protesters took to the streets for a third consecutive day, allies of Hassan Rouhani, the democratically elected president, appeared to be directing the public’s anger towards their more hardline rivals in the Revolutionary Guard.
A spokesman for Mr Rouhani said the Revolutionary Guard had falsely told the president they were not involved as he tried to explain why Iran spent the first days after the crash denying any responsibility for the 176 deaths.
”All relevant authorities had assured us that there had been no missile involved in the downing of the Ukrainian plane,” said Ali Rabiei, the government spokesman.
So, Rouhani is basically letting the Revolutionary Guard hold the bag since, well, it was their error. They are unhappy about it:
Meanwhile, a leaked recording appeared to show a Revolutionary Guard officer complaining that Mr Rouhani’s administration was leaving them out to dry as they faced widespread fury over the downing of Flight PS752.
The recording, published by the Iranian opposition site Pyk Net, purports to capture an unnamed Revolutionary Guard commander addressing a room full of his comrades and urging them to weather the political storm.
“The statement by the government admitting the cause of air crash was disgraceful,” he said. “The statement should not have blamed the entire Revolutionary Guard and could have just said it was the fault of one individual.”
The commander goes on to suggest that the government could have waited “two or three months” before announcing the real cause of the crash to allow the Guard more time to bask in public support after the killing of Qassim Soleimani and the missile barrage fired against US forces in Iraq.
"Hey, who cares about the innocent people that died thanks to our mess, we look bad!". So, you may get some countries to support you for alliances or just to stick it to the US, but with Canada leading the charge on saying that Iran shoot down the plane, nobody would have really bought it. But the story for these thugs is about Rouhani being "ungrateful":
He added that the Rouhani administration was failing to show gratitude to the Revolutionary Guard for crushing anti-government protests late last year. Several hundred civilians, maybe as many as a thousand, were killed during the crackdown.
“The November protests were caused by the Rouhani government but the Revolutionary Guard sacrificed itself and put them down, but this time the government is so passive in the face of the attacks on the Revolutionary Guard,” he said.
Let that serve as more evidence of why the military shouldn't be allowed to rule countries. Their contempt for civilians added to the fact that they want to rule countries like barracks makes them uniquely unsuitable for the role.
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@Oghulk
This is a really extensive list, but do you have any sources or citations for it? I'd like to post it whole-cloth to some of my more patriotic leaning family, but without citations it comes off a bit too pithy/snarky/judgmental... Which is fine for me, but not for trying to change people's worldview.
I don't, just saw it in another forum I post in that someone compiled.
It does miss that one time in 2017, where Trump promised a Soldier’s father money after he was killed in Afghanistan, and Trump tried to renege on it until public pressure forced him to comply.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I'm not sure that they played the plane response wrong. They stalled out responsibility long enough to prevent Trump from using it to escalate, and admitted it after it had become obvious to everyone else that it was a non-malicious screw up on their part.
While I disagree that trump has had any effect on the protests, he and his party are linking themselves to them, and the narrative being pushed is that whatever chaos trump might have accidentally created with the strike was in fact part of a long game to spur the Iranian people into action all along.
It’s thanks to trump that the protestors are out in the streets is essentially what they’re trying to make happen narratively.
For me it’s less about dunking on trump with the protests size, than being very upset at the idea of trump and the republicans using dead Iranians as proof that their missile strike is part of any kind of strategy that gives a shit about the Iranian people
Also trump retweeted images of bodies, essentially blaming democrats for them, as well as a photoshopped image of chuck Schumer too crass and offensive for me to write about here without vomiting
I found a similar list on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/enemtq/trump_brags_about_serving_up_american_troops_to/fdz8rkm/
Not sure if that's the original; it doesn't have sources either, sadly.
The motherfucker tried to take credit for cancer rates being lower just the other day!
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
It's telling that Iran was built up the way it was since the revolution to keep the levers of power where they are.
By and large your uniformed military are not your true believers - those types are kept in your local militias and are primarily used to keep liberal city denizens in check and to discourage foreign occupiers since an armed decentralized resistance is baked right in.
The military is there in case the inmates decide to try their hand at running the asylum.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
It’s why looking only at trumps actions, his motivations, is kind of a fruitless way to look at us foreign policy. Instead it’s best to examine how his behaviours, statements and attitudes are being worked by the Republican Party. It’s less disturbing now after 3 years of trump to hear him call democrats terrorist lovers, and much more disturbing to hear Nikki Haley proudly say it. We’re reaching a point where the Republican Party isn’t just adopting trumps approach, they’re often doing it first.
It’s all coagulating into a big blob of viciousness that’s taking on a life of its own beyond even Fox News
Well... he has been opposing the building of windmills, so I'm sure that had a measurable effect.
It's not just that he makes these claims, it's that they're so easily disprovable (like the cancer rates being on a steady decline for something like 10 years or something). And that the media just shrug and report his statements as fact.
Leading every report with "Pathological liar, President Trump lied again when he said..." probably wouldn't fly, even if it was accurate. But at least fact check the statements as you're broadcasting them. If that means putting the President on a tape delay so you can do so, well, fucking bonus.
I think a more likely path to democracy would be waiting out Khamenei and then the more liberal clerics in the elected government trying to reform out the Supreme Leader position after his death. As long as the IRGC has any kind of significant membership that is kind of a hard road though.
Even given that, a truly democratic government may be US unfriendly.
You can argue it's the fault of the US for escalating the situation, but the blame is still on the Iranian SAM operators pulling the trigger without ID'ing the target.
Who wins in war is the side that screws up the least, and despite our blundering, Iran seems to be handling it even worse.
It reminds me in form, although lower in intensity, of 2001-2008. The Pubs have never had a problem screaming "Traitor!" at Dems, even prior to Trump. People forget exactly how insanely "patriotic" things were for a handful of years.
This is the GOP. It's what they do, and have done, for generations now. Trump is just less subtle about it.
Trump will probably try to take credit for that too.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Civil war tends to result in violent extremists. Liberal democracy tends to result from lengthy periods of peace allowing the gradual reforming of society.
I think this is where I first saw the list, myself:
It’s from a thread by this random political twitter user.
If I had more time I could source every one of the claims myself because I absolutely remember every single one.
Edit for clarity.
Iran's "botched" response in sending missile attacks against American targets in Iraq was basically the only play they had in the situation, and I'm sure that any halfway competent leaders recognize this. The airline accident is a tragedy, but is also an accident.
The lesson any halfway competent international leader will take away from this is that the US is willing to assassinate leading members of governments that piss them off with basically no repercussions.
Trump will take the same lesson too, BTW.
Washington Post is a newspaper.
The Iranian government? His family?
Toss another Article onto the pile.
Matter of fact, this was drone strike, so probably Air Force? If so, court-martial the USAF Chief of Staff (or whichever service is responsible), for following an unlawful order. We need to go full Nuremberg.
I'm also curious as to the method attempted in the failed assassination in Yemen that is getting almost no coverage.
In the space of a few days, US policy goes from "kill someone when we know he poses an imminent threat" to "kill someone when we believe he poses an imminent threat" to "kill him because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
I'm pretty sure it's actually "Kill him to appease Senators I need to vote No on convicting me" that we are at right now.
The airliner aside (and as a Canadian I'm aware that's a big fucking aside), I'm not sure how botched their countermove really was.
Iran flattened a couple of US military bases, and the response wasn't the war everyone expected would immediately follow: it was (at least the impression of) Washington immediately backing down while simultaneously completely alienating their host government. For people whose take on international diplomacy boils down to chest-thumping machismo, which seems to be half the parties in the region, it made the United States look pretty timid, especially given a couple of days before it was threatening to bomb Iran out of UNESCO if it so much as blinked.
Nation-states generally don't get away with dropping a dozen tonnes of ordnance on American military facilities without consequences, and this is going to look like an exception to that rule to a lot of people.
It was a stronger restatement of the attack on the embassy in Iraq that killed no one. The U.S. government is trying to coerce them with the threat of violence without actually having any justification for or intention of following up on those threats (Trump craziness aside), and they're pointing out the bluff.
At this point do the troops in Iraq serve any purpose except as bait to possibly justify counterattacks?
The same purpose they did in Vietnam: allowing us to pretend, as long as possible, that we haven't lost this war.
WaPo fact checker
So either he was straight up lyin', or that $1bn went somewhere other than into the US Treasury...
Like booking rooms in his hotel and not showing up?
The most soul crushing thing about this is that a double digit portion of the american populace will agree.
Yeah, saw that one coming a mile away.
"Proof? We ain't got no proof! We don't need no proof! I don't have to show you any stinking proof!"
He sees his best buddies Putin, Kim Jong Un and others do this kind of thing all the time, so he figured why not? The morons who make up his base all love it when he blows up non-white people and the left gets all hot and bothered by stuff like "foreign relationships", "allies", and everything else they don't think we need.
On another note, speaking of Kim, Donald just illustrated to the Iranians why they need a bomb, like, yesterday: because even after how much of a fool Kim keeps making him look like, he still goes back and rolls over to bare his paunchy orange belly because they have The Bomb and he wants to be friends with them because they have the only thing he really understands: something that could make him look so very weak if it goes off.
No bomb: Trump kicks you around for free political points back home.
With bomb: Donald mashes his big orange nose into your asscrack and starts simpering and wanting to be your bestest best buddy.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
While you're not wrong, I think it's even simpler than that.
It's not that KJU has a bomb that makes Trump subservient. It's that if KJU uses that bomb, which Trump can't stop at this point, it'd mean he'd be not just weak, but a fool.
And if there's one thing Trump would rather avoid, than looking weak, it's looking foolish.
Because he can respond to being weak by doing something "strong". Yeah, his definition of strength, is usually bullying, but he can blow shit up, and the media will eat that with a spoon ("Today, he became President." *vomit*).
He can't as easily disprove foolishness. Not only because he's clearly incapable of it, but also because the media has difficulty interpreting it.
So, Rouhani is basically letting the Revolutionary Guard hold the bag since, well, it was their error. They are unhappy about it: "Hey, who cares about the innocent people that died thanks to our mess, we look bad!". So, you may get some countries to support you for alliances or just to stick it to the US, but with Canada leading the charge on saying that Iran shoot down the plane, nobody would have really bought it. But the story for these thugs is about Rouhani being "ungrateful":
Let that serve as more evidence of why the military shouldn't be allowed to rule countries. Their contempt for civilians added to the fact that they want to rule countries like barracks makes them uniquely unsuitable for the role.