Speaking of McDiarmid as Palpatine, I noticed the other day that he was credited for parts of Rebels that were previously Witwer doing an impression for '2019 forward'. Redubbed for D+, I guess?
I mean everyone loves Ian McDiarmid and he's a highlight in literally every movie he's been in. He's just so fucking good at it.
I have to say that even with McDiarmid McDiarmiding to the best of his abilities, I didn't get any enjoyment out of any of the Emperor's scenes in RoS. It's just too much of an uphill struggle, even for poor old Ian. (Having said that, I'm not as enamoured of the Throne Room scenes in RotJ as most people are; even with McDiarmid's delicious scenery-chewing, they're just too repetitive for my tastes.)
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I had fun in the moment for RoS, but count me among the "I thought too much about it and now I'm very fucking cranky" crowd. I thought the very idea behind Sheev returning was dumb (this part I was wrong about, see below). I thought both the idea and the execution of Rey's parentage horrible. I thought the idea and most of the execution of another ridiculous planet killing super-weapon a bad one. Tack on a bunch of stuff that I found cranky-making about JJ Abrams and blah blah blah...but while we are talking about Ian McDiarmind...
HOWEVER!!
While I still don't like that the Emperor returned in the first place... the execution of it made me kinda happy and I am still happy about it. Apparently I had no idea how much I needed to see:
Horrible Zombie Palpatine, needing the Canadarm from the space shuttle to move around, and his deliciously creepy Dark Side temple and the faceless horde of acolyte servants, and his bonkers plan to suck out the life force from his granddaughter and live forever. And with Ian McDiarmid absolutely loving every moment of his job...
...I cannot lie, amidst a movie that pissed me off if I thought about it too hard... that part was pretty baller.
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
I liked robo Palpatine.
Not saying that the movie wasn't plain kookie-dooks bonkers and had enough plot holes to fly a fleet of sith star destroyers through without a direct TV dish guiding them, but it was fun.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
A few pages back someone said that the Senate fight between Palpatine and Yoda should have been more of a philosophical duel with the participants doing more speechifying and less throwing of furniture. I have no idea how it could have been done successfully, but I think it's an interesting idea because at that point the problem wasn't that Palpatine had overthrown the Republic, it was that the Republic had chosen to hand power over to Palpatine. Even if Yoda and Obi Wan had managed to off the two Sith that core problem would have remained.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I think one of the biggest mysteries of Star Wars is what using the force actually means. The dark side is easier to understand: if you know how to manipulate the very fabric of reality, why not use it to control your own destiny? It seems like at every turn, the Sith are much better at doing this than the Jedi.
The Jedi, then, should be about recognizing the futility of control and having faith in the good intention of the universe, but if so, they've always been terrible at that as well.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
With the caveat that I haven’t, to my knowledge, watched the re-edition with the Palace floor show and whatever all else gumming up the works: IMO the “rescue Han” arc at the start of RotJ isn’t filler or a speed bump before the later “actually important” parts of the story. It does three important things:
- Establishes that Luke has leveled up. When he went to Bespin he was naive and brash and pretty lucky to escape with just a hand missing. Now he walks into the fortified lair of a crime lord with confidence and calm self-assurance, offering to let the Hutt live in exchange for his friend’s freedom.
- Gets the band back together. Over the course of the scene we learn that Lando and Leia are also teamed up and out in the field; we won’t be having some rushed catch-up chatter in a bustling hangar or whatever bullshit because now we know what they’ve been up to.
- Get Han out of the carbonite so he can have his arc in the rest of the film.
_
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
With the caveat that I haven’t, to my knowledge, watched the re-edition with the Palace floor show and whatever all else gumming up the works: IMO the “rescue Han” arc at the start of RotJ isn’t filler or a speed bump before the later “actually important” parts of the story. It does three important things:
- Establishes that Luke has leveled up. When he went to Bespin he was naive and brash and pretty lucky to escape with just a hand missing. Now he walks into the fortified lair of a crime lord with confidence and calm self-assurance, offering to let the Hutt live in exchange for his friend’s freedom.
- Gets the band back together. Over the course of the scene we learn that Lando and Leia are also teamed up and out in the field; we won’t be having some rushed catch-up chatter in a bustling hangar or whatever bullshit because now we know what they’ve been up to.
- Get Han out of the carbonite so he can have his arc in the rest of the film.
My favorite part of the beginning of RotJ is just how unhinged the rebels’ plan actually is.
“Okay, Lando? Go get a job there. Chewy, I’ve got some bad news. You’re going to get captured because we need to get Leia in with a bomb. Don’t worry, after she gets Han thawed out, we’ll figure out how to get you out of there. Threepio, you just...go in there with Artoo. Don’t ask any questions.”
I will stand by my initial statement in 2005 when I said that Ian McDiarmid in that scene (“Kill him”) in particular and the movie as a whole is absolutely fantastic. It’s one of my favorite performances in any “Star Wars” film including the original trilogy. He’s a reptile. He’s lip-smackingly awful. I love him.
God, that whole piece is so good, glad I was able to read it again.
"Okay, Artoo, I'm gonna take this new lightsaber I made and stuff it in this compartment in your head, such that you can only lob it out in a high arc. Either I'll be standing right next to you or, hopefully, you'll have line of sight to me whenever I decide it's Saberin' Time."
You really have to think that some Force precognition was involved.
The lightsaber just needs to clear Artoos head, Luke can just force pull it the rest of the way.
I kinda want to write something about how Threepio suffers so much abuse over the saga. He doesn't get any respect from anyone, he's just there for comic relief, abuse and exposition. He was Jar Jar before Jar Jar was Jar Jar.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
The lightsaber just needs to clear Artoos head, Luke can just force pull it the rest of the way.
I kinda want to write something about how Threepio suffers so much abuse over the saga. He doesn't get any respect from anyone, he's just there for comic relief, abuse and exposition. He was Jar Jar before Jar Jar was Jar Jar.
Jar Jar is eventually respected by his people and his heroism earns him a position of respect, so he is much better off than 3P0.
I mean everyone loves Ian McDiarmid and he's a highlight in literally every movie he's been in. He's just so fucking good at it.
I would love to see an Emperor cartoon with McDiarmid of him just having over the top, nutso plans, and being foiled by his own bumbling sidekick. Maybe Little Emperor and it can be him on Naboo as a child just being a complete fucking terror. "Yes my young apprentice I have built a superweapon capable of destroying their precious basketball court. Never again shall their incessant bouncing interrupt our plans." "Soon I will have crushed the fifth graders and all of their Halloween candies shall be mine."
His cartoonish levels of evil are just so entertaining in the Mr. Burns style. It's just fun to watch.
I immediately pictured the SatAM Sonic cartoon and....yea I could go for that.
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Fuck Joe Manchin
Well unlike C3PO, Jar Jar had a significant role in bringing about the ascendance of the empire, so maybe don't encourage him
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
One of the nice things about RotJ is that the planet destroying superweapon isn't there as a threat that needs to be destroyed before it takes out half the galaxy, it's bait.
Great dialogue between Palps and Luke too.
Luke: You're wrong. Soon I'll be dead, and you with me.
The Emperor: [chuckling evilly] Perhaps you refer to the imminent attack of your Rebel fleet? Yes; I assure you, we are quite safe from your friends here.
Luke: Your overconfidence is your weakness.
The Emperor: [looks back at Luke] Your faith in your friends is yours.
Subsequent events showed who was right and who was wrong there.
The Emperor: [laughing] Good! Your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side.
Luke: [looks at Vader's severed hand, then turns to face the Emperor, throwing away his lightsaber] Never. I'll never turn to the dark side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.
The Emperor: [angrily] So be it... Jedi.
I like this bit because there's no smack talking. Luke uses the honorific to address the Emperor, and the Emperor in turn accepts Luke's claim to the title of Jedi and refers to him as such, and manages to cram an inhuman amount of contempt into the word.
His delivery and inflection on Jedi is absolutely him saying "You want to be the thing that I've spent the last 20+ years slaughtering and erasing from history? OK, have it your way".
At least C3PO had friends who cared about him in TRoS, amirite.
That ties into one of the things I really disliked about TRoS
They finally gave him a genuine heroic moment; something with real heft, weight,and emotion behind it. C3P0 willingly giving up his mind, erasing who he is, to help save the day was truly moving to me.
Then they reset it 10 minutes later. Nah, he's fine, he's back to being a joke, don't worry.
Speaking of McDiarmid as Palpatine, I noticed the other day that he was credited for parts of Rebels that were previously Witwer doing an impression for '2019 forward'. Redubbed for D+, I guess?
At least C3PO had friends who cared about him in TRoS, amirite.
That ties into one of the things I really disliked about TRoS
They finally gave him a genuine heroic moment; something with real heft, weight,and emotion behind it. C3P0 willingly giving up his mind, erasing who he is, to help save the day was truly moving to me.
Then they reset it 10 minutes later. Nah, he's fine, he's back to being a joke, don't worry.
*eye twitch*
And they still could have done something interesting with it, if only R2
At least C3PO had friends who cared about him in TRoS, amirite.
That ties into one of the things I really disliked about TRoS
They finally gave him a genuine heroic moment; something with real heft, weight,and emotion behind it. C3P0 willingly giving up his mind, erasing who he is, to help save the day was truly moving to me.
Then they reset it 10 minutes later. Nah, he's fine, he's back to being a joke, don't worry.
*eye twitch*
What might irk you even more
As mentioned elsewhere, C3PO's backup was prior to the events TLJ which is what RoS effectively did with the audience...
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
At least C3PO had friends who cared about him in TRoS, amirite.
That ties into one of the things I really disliked about TRoS
They finally gave him a genuine heroic moment; something with real heft, weight,and emotion behind it. C3P0 willingly giving up his mind, erasing who he is, to help save the day was truly moving to me.
Then they reset it 10 minutes later. Nah, he's fine, he's back to being a joke, don't worry.
*eye twitch*
It’s tough to make his sacrifice a heroic moment when all the other characters seem totally fine with it happening. C3PO got crapped on in the OT, but at least Han cared enough to get him off of Hoth and Chewie rebuilt him on Bespin. The utter lack of hesitation to kill C3PO in order to get the translation is just wrong.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I’m starting to feel like a fundamental mistake could be present in Star Wars. I don’t know if this is going to sound right or what, but, in practice, the Republic and the Empire have been overwhelmingly human governments. I get that the Empire are xenophobic racists or whatever so we don’t get really any non-humans showing up in their ranks at any level, and yet, that’s largely the same situation with the Republic. There’s the odd hotshot pilot or Ackbar, and yes yes the Senate and the Jedi Council, but those have always been the exceptions. I get that this is all a bit of a contrivance since the movies are made by humans so humans are going to be the easiest to show and depict, and I also get that Star Wars hasn’t really been about onscreen in-depth explorations of extraterrestrial culture.
But at the end of the day, it is always about the humans. The heroes are all humans. The final villains are basically always humans. Endor and the Ewoks may have been a sincere attempt to ameliorate this and show an actual alien world and people with stakes in the battle right there in their own backyard. The prequels make similar efforts with Kashyyyk and Naboo and Geonosis. An attempt to involve the aliens.
But really, they are the Cantina Scene. Giving us homosapiens the side-eyes as we step into their drinking holes and bring our problems with us. We do our best, but they almost never learn our language even though we do out best to learn theirs.
What I’m getting at is a version of Star Wars where the whole thing was a squabble of the human race on a galactic scale, but there are many many other empires out there, of the other races. And maybe the Empire knocked off some of their outposts or orphaned seditionist colonies or whatever that eventually bloomed into full scale planets of their own relatively near the human Empire space, but all of our stuff, our battles, our planet destroying platforms, our warrior monks and ships was so far beneath their levels of concern. We should be just noisy step children to them, killing eachother like we always do. Their castoffs, adventurers, explorers and refugees mingled into out systems, but out beyond our fiefdoms lie so many places we will never know, the true birthplaces of untold alien civilizations.
The emperor, all his visions of conquest, was a threat to us, but not to them.
I’m starting to feel like a fundamental mistake could be present in Star Wars. I don’t know if this is going to sound right or what, but, in practice, the Republic and the Empire have been overwhelmingly human governments. I get that the Empire are xenophobic racists or whatever so we don’t get really any non-humans showing up in their ranks at any level, and yet, that’s largely the same situation with the Republic. There’s the odd hotshot pilot or Ackbar, and yes yes the Senate and the Jedi Council, but those have always been the exceptions. I get that this is all a bit of a contrivance since the movies are made by humans so humans are going to be the easiest to show and depict, and I also get that Star Wars hasn’t really been about onscreen in-depth explorations of extraterrestrial culture.
But at the end of the day, it is always about the humans. The heroes are all humans. The final villains are basically always humans. Endor and the Ewoks may have been a sincere attempt to ameliorate this and show an actual alien world and people with stakes in the battle right there in their own backyard. The prequels make similar efforts with Kashyyyk and Naboo and Geonosis. An attempt to involve the aliens.
But really, they are the Cantina Scene. Giving us homosapiens the side-eyes as we step into their drinking holes and bring our problems with us. We do our best, but they almost never learn our language even though we do out best to learn theirs.
What I’m getting at is a version of Star Wars where the whole thing was a squabble of the human race on a galactic scale, but there are many many other empires out there, of the other races. And maybe the Empire knocked off some of their outposts or orphaned seditionist colonies or whatever that eventually bloomed into full scale planets of their own relatively near the human Empire space, but all of our stuff, our battles, our planet destroying platforms, our warrior monks and ships was so far beneath their levels of concern. We should be just noisy step children to them, killing eachother like we always do. Their castoffs, adventurers, explorers and refugees mingled into out systems, but out beyond our fiefdoms lie so many places we will never know, the true birthplaces of untold alien civilizations.
The emperor, all his visions of conquest, was a threat to us, but not to them.
All those dead bothans tho
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I’m starting to feel like a fundamental mistake could be present in Star Wars. I don’t know if this is going to sound right or what, but, in practice, the Republic and the Empire have been overwhelmingly human governments. I get that the Empire are xenophobic racists or whatever so we don’t get really any non-humans showing up in their ranks at any level, and yet, that’s largely the same situation with the Republic. There’s the odd hotshot pilot or Ackbar, and yes yes the Senate and the Jedi Council, but those have always been the exceptions. I get that this is all a bit of a contrivance since the movies are made by humans so humans are going to be the easiest to show and depict, and I also get that Star Wars hasn’t really been about onscreen in-depth explorations of extraterrestrial culture.
But at the end of the day, it is always about the humans. The heroes are all humans. The final villains are basically always humans. Endor and the Ewoks may have been a sincere attempt to ameliorate this and show an actual alien world and people with stakes in the battle right there in their own backyard. The prequels make similar efforts with Kashyyyk and Naboo and Geonosis. An attempt to involve the aliens.
But really, they are the Cantina Scene. Giving us homosapiens the side-eyes as we step into their drinking holes and bring our problems with us. We do our best, but they almost never learn our language even though we do out best to learn theirs.
What I’m getting at is a version of Star Wars where the whole thing was a squabble of the human race on a galactic scale, but there are many many other empires out there, of the other races. And maybe the Empire knocked off some of their outposts or orphaned seditionist colonies or whatever that eventually bloomed into full scale planets of their own relatively near the human Empire space, but all of our stuff, our battles, our planet destroying platforms, our warrior monks and ships was so far beneath their levels of concern. We should be just noisy step children to them, killing eachother like we always do. Their castoffs, adventurers, explorers and refugees mingled into out systems, but out beyond our fiefdoms lie so many places we will never know, the true birthplaces of untold alien civilizations.
The emperor, all his visions of conquest, was a threat to us, but not to them.
This is fairly easily explained by "budget/CGI constraints"
The tech and the animators have gotten a lot better, but fully CGI characters standing next to actual humans still look not-great, and actors hate wearing prosthetics (which are also expensive and time-consuming.) Unless you want a bunch of variations of Vorlon envirosuits I don't think there's a good solution in the mainline movies.
At least C3PO had friends who cared about him in TRoS, amirite.
That ties into one of the things I really disliked about TRoS
They finally gave him a genuine heroic moment; something with real heft, weight,and emotion behind it. C3P0 willingly giving up his mind, erasing who he is, to help save the day was truly moving to me.
Then they reset it 10 minutes later. Nah, he's fine, he's back to being a joke, don't worry.
*eye twitch*
What might irk you even more
As mentioned elsewhere, C3PO's backup was prior to the events TLJ which is what RoS effectively did with the audience...
Such a dick move. Fuck you, JJ.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Yeah, it radically diverges from what Star Wars seems to be, which is kind of like Star Trek’s approach where the galaxy is a great big neighborhood of sorts. I was just really struck by how if the depiction of other species had diverged into a form like I described above, just how much that would, in my mind, increase the scale of the setting and change the stakes around a bit. It’s obviously something that can’t be changed, nor should it be tried. But the core idea is such a potent one, I had to share it.
I’m starting to feel like a fundamental mistake could be present in Star Wars. I don’t know if this is going to sound right or what, but, in practice, the Republic and the Empire have been overwhelmingly human governments. I get that the Empire are xenophobic racists or whatever so we don’t get really any non-humans showing up in their ranks at any level, and yet, that’s largely the same situation with the Republic. There’s the odd hotshot pilot or Ackbar, and yes yes the Senate and the Jedi Council, but those have always been the exceptions. I get that this is all a bit of a contrivance since the movies are made by humans so humans are going to be the easiest to show and depict, and I also get that Star Wars hasn’t really been about onscreen in-depth explorations of extraterrestrial culture.
But at the end of the day, it is always about the humans. The heroes are all humans. The final villains are basically always humans. Endor and the Ewoks may have been a sincere attempt to ameliorate this and show an actual alien world and people with stakes in the battle right there in their own backyard. The prequels make similar efforts with Kashyyyk and Naboo and Geonosis. An attempt to involve the aliens.
But really, they are the Cantina Scene. Giving us homosapiens the side-eyes as we step into their drinking holes and bring our problems with us. We do our best, but they almost never learn our language even though we do out best to learn theirs.
What I’m getting at is a version of Star Wars where the whole thing was a squabble of the human race on a galactic scale, but there are many many other empires out there, of the other races. And maybe the Empire knocked off some of their outposts or orphaned seditionist colonies or whatever that eventually bloomed into full scale planets of their own relatively near the human Empire space, but all of our stuff, our battles, our planet destroying platforms, our warrior monks and ships was so far beneath their levels of concern. We should be just noisy step children to them, killing eachother like we always do. Their castoffs, adventurers, explorers and refugees mingled into out systems, but out beyond our fiefdoms lie so many places we will never know, the true birthplaces of untold alien civilizations.
The emperor, all his visions of conquest, was a threat to us, but not to them.
This is fairly easily explained by "budget/CGI constraints"
The tech and the animators have gotten a lot better, but fully CGI characters standing next to actual humans still look not-great, and actors hate wearing prosthetics (which are also expensive and time-consuming.) Unless you want a bunch of variations of Vorlon envirosuits I don't think there's a good solution in the mainline movies.
There is no tech limitations keeping them from featuring more aliens. The original Hellboy proved that, and budget is not a problem. It's not the actors either, somebody will always jump at the chance to be in Star Wars.
It's always about studio fear. You can't have space helmets in Prometheus because you need to see a human face, according to the people selling the movie, otherwise nobody will connect with the characters. It's the same fear with Star Wars. The most you'll get is Maz or Yoda, real characters but sideline players. Or Chewie, who is more dog than person.
The Mandalorian is the closest we'll get, and that thing was so low risk, even the bean counters couldn't object.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
There is something to be said for the advantage of human characters in live action. I don’t think Chewbacca could have his own standalone movie and sustain the entire thing.
I guess the new Planet of the Ape movies did a commendable job in this area. ...And now I‘m suddenly weirded out by the idea of Chewie having a fully articulated CGI face.
“I don’t try and write strong female characters or strong male characters. I just try and write, hopefully, strong characters — and sometimes they happen to be female.”
So that’s what happened to Rose. Cool!
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
Rose was strong in that she was secure enough to let others be in the foreground. A role model for us all.
In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.
In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.
There is something to be said for the advantage of human characters in live action. I don’t think Chewbacca could have his own standalone movie and sustain the entire thing.
I guess the new Planet of the Ape movies did a commendable job in this area. ...And now I‘m suddenly weirded out by the idea of Chewie having a fully articulated CGI face.
I would love to see a main character be some truly different being. But I'd totally settle for somebody like Ahsoka, just an orange lady with a seashell for hair. I find Chewie to be more problematic because of his language than his looks. He looks great, you don't need to change a thing. I don't think I could get behind 2 hours if howling and subtitles, though.
In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.
In my opinion, that whole thing reads like fanfic written in response to TROS in much the same way TROS seemed like fanfic written in response to TLJ. Also, it's pretty stupid and uninspired. I'm calling fake on this.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.
In my opinion, that whole thing reads like fanfic written in response to TROS in much the same way TROS seemed like fanfic written in response to TLJ. Also, it's pretty stupid and uninspired. I'm calling fake on this.
Well yeah, Trevorrow.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.
They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise
There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.
I don't feel that RotJ needs to set up the Empire vs Rebellion plot. It's ancillary. The Emperor doesn't really care beyond using the threat to turn Luke. Luke just wanders out of the Rebellion into his own movie when he meets Vader on Endor. The struggle contrasted against how little those in power give a shit feels like it's part of the point.
It's still the weakest of the OT. ANH is practically perfect, ESB, while not flawless, is deeper and richer than ANH. RotJ merely sits at good to great and as a conclusion to the previous, it is wholly satisfying.
The fact that the entire Empire vs Rebellion plot in ROTJ is ancillary is the whole problem. Most of it kinda falls too flat in the end compared to the Luke plotline.
I don't see it as a problem. The heart of the movie is the family drama. The war is the backdrop the drama takes place in. The stakes were set over the course of the first 2 movies, we know everything about that struggle that we need to know walking in. The stakes of the final battle are clear. What we learn is that the Rebellion is up against a wizard and they were always out of his league.
It has other issues, like Han's rescue, while fun and informative regarding Luke's growth, being disconnected from the plot.
In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.
They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise
There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.
Yeah, the bones of it is pretty solid and it actually reads like it's trying to be a follow up to TFA/TLJ and a conclusion to the actual ST as it exists in those films instead of some whole new bullshit.
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While I still don't like that the Emperor returned in the first place... the execution of it made me kinda happy and I am still happy about it. Apparently I had no idea how much I needed to see:
Not saying that the movie wasn't plain kookie-dooks bonkers and had enough plot holes to fly a fleet of sith star destroyers through without a direct TV dish guiding them, but it was fun.
The Jedi, then, should be about recognizing the futility of control and having faith in the good intention of the universe, but if so, they've always been terrible at that as well.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
- Establishes that Luke has leveled up. When he went to Bespin he was naive and brash and pretty lucky to escape with just a hand missing. Now he walks into the fortified lair of a crime lord with confidence and calm self-assurance, offering to let the Hutt live in exchange for his friend’s freedom.
- Gets the band back together. Over the course of the scene we learn that Lando and Leia are also teamed up and out in the field; we won’t be having some rushed catch-up chatter in a bustling hangar or whatever bullshit because now we know what they’ve been up to.
- Get Han out of the carbonite so he can have his arc in the rest of the film.
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My favorite part of the beginning of RotJ is just how unhinged the rebels’ plan actually is.
“Okay, Lando? Go get a job there. Chewy, I’ve got some bad news. You’re going to get captured because we need to get Leia in with a bomb. Don’t worry, after she gets Han thawed out, we’ll figure out how to get you out of there. Threepio, you just...go in there with Artoo. Don’t ask any questions.”
God, that whole piece is so good, glad I was able to read it again.
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You really have to think that some Force precognition was involved.
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I kinda want to write something about how Threepio suffers so much abuse over the saga. He doesn't get any respect from anyone, he's just there for comic relief, abuse and exposition. He was Jar Jar before Jar Jar was Jar Jar.
Jar Jar is eventually respected by his people and his heroism earns him a position of respect, so he is much better off than 3P0.
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I immediately pictured the SatAM Sonic cartoon and....yea I could go for that.
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Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
His delivery and inflection on Jedi is absolutely him saying "You want to be the thing that I've spent the last 20+ years slaughtering and erasing from history? OK, have it your way".
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That ties into one of the things I really disliked about TRoS
Then they reset it 10 minutes later. Nah, he's fine, he's back to being a joke, don't worry.
*eye twitch*
Nope
And they still could have done something interesting with it, if only R2
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But at the end of the day, it is always about the humans. The heroes are all humans. The final villains are basically always humans. Endor and the Ewoks may have been a sincere attempt to ameliorate this and show an actual alien world and people with stakes in the battle right there in their own backyard. The prequels make similar efforts with Kashyyyk and Naboo and Geonosis. An attempt to involve the aliens.
But really, they are the Cantina Scene. Giving us homosapiens the side-eyes as we step into their drinking holes and bring our problems with us. We do our best, but they almost never learn our language even though we do out best to learn theirs.
What I’m getting at is a version of Star Wars where the whole thing was a squabble of the human race on a galactic scale, but there are many many other empires out there, of the other races. And maybe the Empire knocked off some of their outposts or orphaned seditionist colonies or whatever that eventually bloomed into full scale planets of their own relatively near the human Empire space, but all of our stuff, our battles, our planet destroying platforms, our warrior monks and ships was so far beneath their levels of concern. We should be just noisy step children to them, killing eachother like we always do. Their castoffs, adventurers, explorers and refugees mingled into out systems, but out beyond our fiefdoms lie so many places we will never know, the true birthplaces of untold alien civilizations.
The emperor, all his visions of conquest, was a threat to us, but not to them.
All those dead bothans tho
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
This is fairly easily explained by "budget/CGI constraints"
The tech and the animators have gotten a lot better, but fully CGI characters standing next to actual humans still look not-great, and actors hate wearing prosthetics (which are also expensive and time-consuming.) Unless you want a bunch of variations of Vorlon envirosuits I don't think there's a good solution in the mainline movies.
Such a dick move. Fuck you, JJ.
There is no tech limitations keeping them from featuring more aliens. The original Hellboy proved that, and budget is not a problem. It's not the actors either, somebody will always jump at the chance to be in Star Wars.
It's always about studio fear. You can't have space helmets in Prometheus because you need to see a human face, according to the people selling the movie, otherwise nobody will connect with the characters. It's the same fear with Star Wars. The most you'll get is Maz or Yoda, real characters but sideline players. Or Chewie, who is more dog than person.
The Mandalorian is the closest we'll get, and that thing was so low risk, even the bean counters couldn't object.
I guess the new Planet of the Ape movies did a commendable job in this area. ...And now I‘m suddenly weirded out by the idea of Chewie having a fully articulated CGI face.
“I don’t try and write strong female characters or strong male characters. I just try and write, hopefully, strong characters — and sometimes they happen to be female.”
So that’s what happened to Rose. Cool!
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Rose is way more prominent in this script, too.
They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise
I would love to see a main character be some truly different being. But I'd totally settle for somebody like Ahsoka, just an orange lady with a seashell for hair. I find Chewie to be more problematic because of his language than his looks. He looks great, you don't need to change a thing. I don't think I could get behind 2 hours if howling and subtitles, though.
In my opinion, that whole thing reads like fanfic written in response to TROS in much the same way TROS seemed like fanfic written in response to TLJ. Also, it's pretty stupid and uninspired. I'm calling fake on this.
Well yeah, Trevorrow.
There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.
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Its Dr Zhivago, in space!!
Yeah, the bones of it is pretty solid and it actually reads like it's trying to be a follow up to TFA/TLJ and a conclusion to the actual ST as it exists in those films instead of some whole new bullshit.