Hell, Sanders himself was beaten by a woman in 2016 primary, so I have no idea why he would say a woman can’t win 2020.
Me neither.
That's why I don't believe it.
Plus, didn't Bernie say he tried to get Warren to run in 2016?
Both those things happened, but they also both happened before the 2016 general, which you could understand possibly changing how people feel about that particular question.
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
Edit 2: Or massively shifting goalposts when results weren't what they wanted.
This whole damn thing annoys me because both of them need to focus on Biden.
Yes, Trump is the long term target, but Biden is the immediate opponent that needs to be taken down. Biden is weak in Iowa and if he underperforms in the first primary state, then he’s weakened in the rest.
Warren or her team should have sat on this until Biden is at least neutralized or campaigning from a weaker position and Sanders needs to not make things worse by lying about it.
All this shit does is help Biden become the candidate.
The second they saw CNN and the rest of these fuckers in the media egging then on, they both should have backed off. Now it’s all everyone is talking about and you got Warren supporters saying Sanders is sexist and Sanders supporters are feeling victimized because of how the debate moderators leaned hard into this.
The media is playing this hard now and Biden is gonna laugh his ass off to Iowa.
This was a strategic blunder.
The story was already blowing up. All Warren's campaign did was confirm that it happened, like many people (again, including people in this thread now complaining about her confirming it) were demanding she do.
Warren and her team couldn't sit on the story, they could only not comment on it. While getting blamed for not commenting on it.
I don’t mean sitting on Warren’s reaction. By that point it was too late. I don’t fault Warren or her campaign for that.
I’m talking about the initial report that got this started, the “two staffers close to Warren and two other people” part. Whoever those staffers are should have waited until Biden was out of the way.
Actually that makes me curious: The script thing was released first, then Sanders denied it, then the leak about Sanders and Warren’s conversation came out, then shit started getting worse.
Please tell me this isn’t a thing and Biden isn’t going to win because some staffer on Warren’s campaign leaked this too early after Sander’s campaign lied about the script that’s a complete nothingburger?
It was not two staffers close to Warren.
Again, CNN sources:
two people Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting
CNN does not say anyone in the campaign was involved with this.
+5
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
I already accidentally broke well past my "two posts on a subject" rule and I'm disappointed in myself that it was for something this dumb so let me just say that I will be extremely happy if either Bernie or Warren ends up getting nominated.
Literally anyone removing Trump would feel like a massive weight off my soul but I would be genuinely enthusiastic for those two.
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
warren de-escalated by turning it into a debate own
+5
Options
Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
Warren supporters talk about US sexism and what that does for female politicians all the time. Its one of the primary reasons given for the 2016 loss. To then act like someone saying that women under that environment couldnt win the presidency is being sexist just feels like a serious stretch unless you believe Sanders was actually saying women as a class arent good enough to win due to their own failures as a class, which is beyond parody.
Hillary still won the popular vote by the largest margin in US history. She had 2.8 million more votes than Trump. Second place is Bush v Gore at just over 500 thousand.
I’m not saying sexism wasn’t a factor in 2016, but I think it should be obvious that a woman can win the even in this toxic environment.
Hell, Sanders himself was beaten by a woman in 2016 primary, so I have no idea why he would say a woman can’t win 2020.
He's an old white guy they say stupid shit all the time.
+2
Options
MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
warren de-escalated by turning it into a debate own
After all it's Warren's duty to be subservient to the best interests of the Sanders campaign. She should have said women can't win when asked!
Warren supporters talk about US sexism and what that does for female politicians all the time. Its one of the primary reasons given for the 2016 loss. To then act like someone saying that women under that environment couldnt win the presidency is being sexist just feels like a serious stretch unless you believe Sanders was actually saying women as a class arent good enough to win due to their own failures as a class, which is beyond parody.
Hillary still won the popular vote by the largest margin in US history. She had 2.8 million more votes than Trump. Second place is Bush v Gore at just over 500 thousand.
I’m not saying sexism wasn’t a factor in 2016, but I think it should be obvious that a woman can win the even in this toxic environment.
Hell, Sanders himself was beaten by a woman in 2016 primary, so I have no idea why he would say a woman can’t win 2020.
He's an old white guy they say stupid shit all the time.
Elizabeth Warren was the original source. It doesn't really matter, who finally told the reporter about what she said.
It could be her campaign intentionally (either with or without her consent). it could be a loose lips incident by her staffers. In any case it is her responsibility.
+1
Options
AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
You can believe Warren and still believe it was handled poorly given the importance of beating Biden, capped off with the unneeded skipping of the handshake.
This whole damn thing annoys me because both of them need to focus on Biden.
Yes, Trump is the long term target, but Biden is the immediate opponent that needs to be taken down. Biden is weak in Iowa and if he underperforms in the first primary state, then he’s weakened in the rest.
Warren or her team should have sat on this until Biden is at least neutralized or campaigning from a weaker position and Sanders needs to not make things worse by lying about it.
All this shit does is help Biden become the candidate.
The second they saw CNN and the rest of these fuckers in the media egging then on, they both should have backed off. Now it’s all everyone is talking about and you got Warren supporters saying Sanders is sexist and Sanders supporters are feeling victimized because of how the debate moderators leaned hard into this.
The media is playing this hard now and Biden is gonna laugh his ass off to Iowa.
This was a strategic blunder.
The story was already blowing up. All Warren's campaign did was confirm that it happened, like many people (again, including people in this thread now complaining about her confirming it) were demanding she do.
Warren and her team couldn't sit on the story, they could only not comment on it. While getting blamed for not commenting on it.
I don’t mean sitting on Warren’s reaction. By that point it was too late. I don’t fault Warren or her campaign for that.
I’m talking about the initial report that got this started, the “two staffers close to Warren and two other people” part. Whoever those staffers are should have waited until Biden was out of the way.
Actually that makes me curious: The script thing was released first, then Sanders denied it, then the leak about Sanders and Warren’s conversation came out, then shit started getting worse.
Please tell me this isn’t a thing and Biden isn’t going to win because some staffer on Warren’s campaign leaked this too early after Sander’s campaign lied about the script that’s a complete nothingburger?
It was not two staffers close to Warren.
Again, CNN sources:
two people Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting
CNN does not say anyone in the campaign was involved with this.
Fair enough. Not campaign staffers.
So she told two friends? Colleagues? The first two random people she met?
Whomever leaked this may have been trying to help her campaign, wether they are staffers or not, but I don’t think it’s going the way they wanted.
It was still a mistake to release the conversation before Biden is out of the way.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
warren de-escalated by turning it into a debate own
I quoted her literal response to the issue last page. Wherein she says it doesn't matter and we should talk about other shit.
In the debate she took it as an opportunity to say "Yes women can win" and toot her own horn. Bernie took it as an opportunity to say "Yes, women can win" and emphasizing his own history in supporting women.
As far as I can tell neither of them tried to make this an attack on the other or do anything but de-escalate the situation.
Elizabeth Warren was the original source. It doesn't really matter, who finally told the reporter about what she said.
It could be her campaign intentionally (either with or without her consent). it could be a loose lips incident by her staffers. In any case it is her responsibility.
How dare she tell her side of events to the people around her.
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
warren de-escalated by turning it into a debate own
After all it's Warren's duty to be subservient to the best interests of the Sanders campaign. She should have said women can't win when asked!
CNN: "Senator Sanders, did you say a woman can't win?"
Sanders: "No."
CNN: "Senator Warren, what did you think when Senator Sanders said a woman can't win?"
Hexmage-PA on
+2
Options
MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
warren de-escalated by turning it into a debate own
After all it's Warren's duty to be subservient to the best interests of the Sanders campaign. She should have said women can't win when asked!
CNN: "Senator Sanders, did you say a woman can't win?"
Sanders: "No."
CNN: "Senator Warren, what did you think when Senator Sanders said a woman can't win?"
In what respect is Warren responsible for shitty journalists being shitty?
Elizabeth Warren was the original source. It doesn't really matter, who finally told the reporter about what she said.
It could be her campaign intentionally (either with or without her consent). it could be a loose lips incident by her staffers. In any case it is her responsibility.
Nice dude. You found a way to blame a woman for this the most out of anyone. It's impressive.
Even though we've got like tons of post sources just in the past 2 pages alone going over the various statements and sources for those statements on the issue.
This whole damn thing annoys me because both of them need to focus on Biden.
Yes, Trump is the long term target, but Biden is the immediate opponent that needs to be taken down. Biden is weak in Iowa and if he underperforms in the first primary state, then he’s weakened in the rest.
Warren or her team should have sat on this until Biden is at least neutralized or campaigning from a weaker position and Sanders needs to not make things worse by lying about it.
All this shit does is help Biden become the candidate.
The second they saw CNN and the rest of these fuckers in the media egging then on, they both should have backed off. Now it’s all everyone is talking about and you got Warren supporters saying Sanders is sexist and Sanders supporters are feeling victimized because of how the debate moderators leaned hard into this.
The media is playing this hard now and Biden is gonna laugh his ass off to Iowa.
This was a strategic blunder.
The story was already blowing up. All Warren's campaign did was confirm that it happened, like many people (again, including people in this thread now complaining about her confirming it) were demanding she do.
Warren and her team couldn't sit on the story, they could only not comment on it. While getting blamed for not commenting on it.
I don’t mean sitting on Warren’s reaction. By that point it was too late. I don’t fault Warren or her campaign for that.
I’m talking about the initial report that got this started, the “two staffers close to Warren and two other people” part. Whoever those staffers are should have waited until Biden was out of the way.
Actually that makes me curious: The script thing was released first, then Sanders denied it, then the leak about Sanders and Warren’s conversation came out, then shit started getting worse.
Please tell me this isn’t a thing and Biden isn’t going to win because some staffer on Warren’s campaign leaked this too early after Sander’s campaign lied about the script that’s a complete nothingburger?
It was not two staffers close to Warren.
Again, CNN sources:
two people Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting
CNN does not say anyone in the campaign was involved with this.
Fair enough. Not campaign staffers.
So she told two friends? Colleagues? The first two random people she met?
Whomever leaked this may have been trying to help her campaign, wether they are staffers or not, but I don’t think it’s going the way they wanted.
It was still a mistake to release the conversation before Biden is out of the way.
Again, we have no idea WHO released the conversation. It only states Warren talked with two people, it does not state they were Warren campaign people. They could have been two Sanders campaign people. We don't know.
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
warren de-escalated by turning it into a debate own
After all it's Warren's duty to be subservient to the best interests of the Sanders campaign. She should have said women can't win when asked!
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
warren de-escalated by turning it into a debate own
After all it's Warren's duty to be subservient to the best interests of the Sanders campaign. She should have said women can't win when asked!
CNN: "Senator Sanders, did you say a woman can't win?"
Sanders: "No."
CNN: "Senator Warren, what did you think when Senator Sanders said a woman can't win?"
I don’t see how this bad question is in any way Warren’s fault or responsibility. Be mad at CNN for asking such a bad question.
CNN: "Senator Sanders, did you say a woman can't win?"
Sanders: "No."
CNN: "Senator Warren, what did you think when Senator Sanders said a woman can't win?"
That sequence annoyed the hell out of me so much. At least have the presence of mind to adjust the following question based on the prior answer.
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
warren de-escalated by turning it into a debate own
After all it's Warren's duty to be subservient to the best interests of the Sanders campaign. She should have said women can't win when asked!
Thisbis trying to have it both ways.
What precisely would you have had her say?
I don't think she wanted this out here, because it's stupid, and absent the heritage thing she hasn't done anything stupid. But once it's out you can either use it or drop and endorse Sanders. There are no other options.
Also, SURPRISE! Turns out that Slack script document was legit and deployed to a few states.
So much for rogue staffers!
DES MOINES, Iowa — The controversial talking points attacking Elizabeth Warren that Bernie Sanders' campaign deployed were given to teams in at least two early voting states on Friday, three Sanders campaign officials confirmed.
Volunteers and staffers used the script on Saturday while canvassing for votes, meaning the talking points were more official than what Sanders previously suggested after POLITICO reported on the language.
Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
He did address it directly.
Earlier in the day, Sanders said in a statement that “staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.”
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win,” Sanders said. He acknowledged that gender came up during their conversation. “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could," Sanders said.
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
warren de-escalated by turning it into a debate own
After all it's Warren's duty to be subservient to the best interests of the Sanders campaign. She should have said women can't win when asked!
CNN: "Senator Sanders, did you say a woman can't win?"
Sanders: "No."
CNN: "Senator Warren, what did you think when Senator Sanders said a woman can't win?"
I don’t see how this bad question is in any way Warren’s fault or responsibility. Be mad at CNN for asking such a bad question.
I don't see how either candidate handled it badly either. Both basically just went and talked about how woman can totally win elections and also vote for me.
Acknowledge topic, say the right thing, pivot to self-promotion, don't try and start a fight.
I don't see how either candidate handled it badly either. Both basically just went and talked about how woman can totally win elections and also vote for me.
Acknowledge topic, say the right thing, pivot to self-promotion, don't try and start a fight.
I can hardly blame warren for taking advantage of crappy CNN questions to make herself look as good as possible, instead of... making excuses for her competitor?
Based on what everyone has said, I feel this is the most likely reality:
1) During their conversation, Bernie says something about how if the Democratic nominee is a woman then Trump will attack her in sexist ways and that those attacks would be effective. Probably a true statement, but "effective" can be interpreted in a variety of ways. Perhaps he meant there's a subset of voters who will respond to those attacks, so it would make the margin smaller than if a man with identical positions were the nominee. If that's what he meant, it's a reasonable and fair point. But he tends to talk in an aggressive, blunt manner so I find it entirely plausible that...
2) Warren, informed by her history of being told women cannot do things (including winning elections), interprets "effective" as meaning that it would lead to a Trump victory. She is frustrated by this and shares it with several confidants. The story of this meeting becomes a semi-open secret inside the Democratic Party.
3) The story leaks. I suspect the initial source is the campaign who had the most to gain here (BIDEN) but we don't have any real details.
4) Bernie gives the following statement to CNN:
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win," Sanders said. "It's sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened. What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could. Do I believe a woman can win in 2020? Of course! After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016."
The bolded is an important escalation. And shows no self-reflection.
5) A couple hours later, Warren releases her statement. She says Bernie said a female candidate couldn't win and that she disagreed. But it's mostly conciliatory with how they agree on most issues, etc. etc. etc.
6) When asked at the debate Bernie repeats that it never happened.
7) Given the history of how sexist shit works, Warren's displeased with him in the moment, thus the post-debate interaction.
You know how this could have been fixed really easily? If Sanders opts to say something like:
"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win," Sanders said. What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could. Upon reflection and speaking to my wife and women on my staff, I realize how Elizabeth could have interpreted that to mean that I think a woman could not win. Do I believe a woman can win in 2020? Of course! After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016."
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I don't see how either candidate handled it badly either. Both basically just went and talked about how woman can totally win elections and also vote for me.
Acknowledge topic, say the right thing, pivot to self-promotion, don't try and start a fight.
does this look it worked to you
I don't think either candidate can completely control the fact that people really enjoy fighting about useless bullshit.
I don't see how either candidate handled it badly either. Both basically just went and talked about how woman can totally win elections and also vote for me.
Acknowledge topic, say the right thing, pivot to self-promotion, don't try and start a fight.
does this look it worked to you
Well it did help to point out how some people will always attack the woman over any slight no matter how small or whether she even did the thing or not
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Can we focus on what's really important: That Biden's response to this controversy was to say he helped get 27 women elected in 2018, as if they wouldn't have gotten elected without him?
I don't see how either candidate handled it badly either. Both basically just went and talked about how woman can totally win elections and also vote for me.
Acknowledge topic, say the right thing, pivot to self-promotion, don't try and start a fight.
does this look it worked to you
An unreasonable number of Sanders supporters will take any excuse to portray someone as an enemy of the revolution. Outside of meekly cringing before him there was no way to stop this from happening once the story broke.
I don't see how either candidate handled it badly either. Both basically just went and talked about how woman can totally win elections and also vote for me.
Acknowledge topic, say the right thing, pivot to self-promotion, don't try and start a fight.
does this look it worked to you
Given the immediate reaction to her confirming the story was to call her a liar, I don't see how anything could have worked. Both campaigns have tried to de-escalate but even in this thread we've still got "it's all Warrens fault" and "she's a liar" floating around.
This idea that Warren committed some egregious breach of etiquette by not shaking hands with Bernie is beyond silly.
At no point in this story has Bernie said anything close to an apology for what he said, I even if he didn’t mean it the way Warren took it. Unless you are claiming that Warren is 100% lying about the entire story and she made the whole thing up. Bernie seemingly said something and Warren took it in a way it wasn’t intended.
Instead of apologizing or offering any indication that he understands her feelings, Bernie doubles down and says that it’s not true.
And people wonder why Warren might be, in the moment, pissed at her friend and not exactly in the mood to shake his hand?
This whole damn thing annoys me because both of them need to focus on Biden.
Yes, Trump is the long term target, but Biden is the immediate opponent that needs to be taken down. Biden is weak in Iowa and if he underperforms in the first primary state, then he’s weakened in the rest.
Warren or her team should have sat on this until Biden is at least neutralized or campaigning from a weaker position and Sanders needs to not make things worse by lying about it.
All this shit does is help Biden become the candidate.
The second they saw CNN and the rest of these fuckers in the media egging then on, they both should have backed off. Now it’s all everyone is talking about and you got Warren supporters saying Sanders is sexist and Sanders supporters are feeling victimized because of how the debate moderators leaned hard into this.
The media is playing this hard now and Biden is gonna laugh his ass off to Iowa.
This was a strategic blunder.
The story was already blowing up. All Warren's campaign did was confirm that it happened, like many people (again, including people in this thread now complaining about her confirming it) were demanding she do.
Warren and her team couldn't sit on the story, they could only not comment on it. While getting blamed for not commenting on it.
I don’t mean sitting on Warren’s reaction. By that point it was too late. I don’t fault Warren or her campaign for that.
I’m talking about the initial report that got this started, the “two staffers close to Warren and two other people” part. Whoever those staffers are should have waited until Biden was out of the way.
Actually that makes me curious: The script thing was released first, then Sanders denied it, then the leak about Sanders and Warren’s conversation came out, then shit started getting worse.
Please tell me this isn’t a thing and Biden isn’t going to win because some staffer on Warren’s campaign leaked this too early after Sander’s campaign lied about the script that’s a complete nothingburger?
It was not two staffers close to Warren.
Again, CNN sources:
two people Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting
CNN does not say anyone in the campaign was involved with this.
Fair enough. Not campaign staffers.
So she told two friends? Colleagues? The first two random people she met?
Whomever leaked this may have been trying to help her campaign, wether they are staffers or not, but I don’t think it’s going the way they wanted.
It was still a mistake to release the conversation before Biden is out of the way.
Again, we have no idea WHO released the conversation. It only states Warren talked with two people, it does not state they were Warren campaign people. They could have been two Sanders campaign people. We don't know.
My original assertion is that this was a blunder and the only person it helps is Biden.
If Warren’s team or friend or whoever did it, it’s a mistake because they should have waited until Biden was gone.
If Sanders team or friend or whatever did it, then for fucks sake that’s stupid (and pretty unlikely unless they were purposely trying to sabotage him).
This helps Biden only. And I suppose CNN.
It was stupid for Sanders and Warren to go after each other. Wait till Biden is gone, then they can go at it.
That is what is so upsetting about all this to me: All the effort in this entire conversation is pointless if Biden doesn’t lose. Warren is my first choice, but I’d be happy with Sanders too. All the other candidates I’d vote for in the general, but they don’t excite me. Having these two go at each other, wether it’s just in the media or this forum or for realsies, while Biden is still winning is a fucking waste.
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This whole damn thing annoys me because both of them need to focus on Biden.
Yes, Trump is the long term target, but Biden is the immediate opponent that needs to be taken down. Biden is weak in Iowa and if he underperforms in the first primary state, then he’s weakened in the rest.
Warren or her team should have sat on this until Biden is at least neutralized or campaigning from a weaker position and Sanders needs to not make things worse by lying about it.
All this shit does is help Biden become the candidate.
The second they saw CNN and the rest of these fuckers in the media egging then on, they both should have backed off. Now it’s all everyone is talking about and you got Warren supporters saying Sanders is sexist and Sanders supporters are feeling victimized because of how the debate moderators leaned hard into this.
The media is playing this hard now and Biden is gonna laugh his ass off to Iowa.
This was a strategic blunder.
The story was already blowing up. All Warren's campaign did was confirm that it happened, like many people (again, including people in this thread now complaining about her confirming it) were demanding she do.
Warren and her team couldn't sit on the story, they could only not comment on it. While getting blamed for not commenting on it.
I don’t mean sitting on Warren’s reaction. By that point it was too late. I don’t fault Warren or her campaign for that.
I’m talking about the initial report that got this started, the “two staffers close to Warren and two other people” part. Whoever those staffers are should have waited until Biden was out of the way.
Actually that makes me curious: The script thing was released first, then Sanders denied it, then the leak about Sanders and Warren’s conversation came out, then shit started getting worse.
Please tell me this isn’t a thing and Biden isn’t going to win because some staffer on Warren’s campaign leaked this too early after Sander’s campaign lied about the script that’s a complete nothingburger?
It was not two staffers close to Warren.
Again, CNN sources:
two people Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting
CNN does not say anyone in the campaign was involved with this.
Fair enough. Not campaign staffers.
So she told two friends? Colleagues? The first two random people she met?
Whomever leaked this may have been trying to help her campaign, wether they are staffers or not, but I don’t think it’s going the way they wanted.
It was still a mistake to release the conversation before Biden is out of the way.
Again, we have no idea WHO released the conversation. It only states Warren talked with two people, it does not state they were Warren campaign people. They could have been two Sanders campaign people. We don't know.
My original assertion is that this was a blunder and the only person it helps is Biden.
If Warren’s team or friend or whoever did it, it’s a mistake because they should have waited until Biden was gone.
If Sanders team or friend or whatever did it, then for fucks sake that’s stupid (and pretty unlikely unless they were purposely trying to sabotage him).
This helps Biden only. And I suppose CNN.
It was stupid for Sanders and Warren to go after each other. Wait till Biden is gone, then they can go at it.
That is what is so upsetting about all this to me: All the effort in this entire conversation is pointless if Biden doesn’t lose. Warren is my first choice, but I’d be happy with Sanders too. All the other candidates I’d vote for in the general, but they don’t excite me. Having these two go at each other, wether it’s just in the media or this forum or for realsies, while Biden is still winning is a fucking waste.
It wasn't a blunder if Biden leaked it.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Look all I know is that I like it when my preferred candidate does a mild attack on their primary opponent and when they are mildly attacked by the same opponent it is the greatest injustice in the world.
Honestly my eye has been literally involuntarily twitching reading the last couple of pages, but clearly CNN won last night’s debate because now we are fighting over the dumbest bullshit ever.
He's Bernie's speechwriter and is trying to wrestle his fans back towards being mad at Biden, who is going to walk away with this nomination if nobody does anything to stop it.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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Both those things happened, but they also both happened before the 2016 general, which you could understand possibly changing how people feel about that particular question.
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Fuck Joe Manchin
I did not see this, so this is good to see now, thank you.
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They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
Edit 2: Or massively shifting goalposts when results weren't what they wanted.
It was not two staffers close to Warren.
Again, CNN sources: CNN does not say anyone in the campaign was involved with this.
Literally anyone removing Trump would feel like a massive weight off my soul but I would be genuinely enthusiastic for those two.
He's an old white guy they say stupid shit all the time.
After all it's Warren's duty to be subservient to the best interests of the Sanders campaign. She should have said women can't win when asked!
He's Jewish, actually.
It could be her campaign intentionally (either with or without her consent). it could be a loose lips incident by her staffers. In any case it is her responsibility.
Fair enough. Not campaign staffers.
So she told two friends? Colleagues? The first two random people she met?
Whomever leaked this may have been trying to help her campaign, wether they are staffers or not, but I don’t think it’s going the way they wanted.
It was still a mistake to release the conversation before Biden is out of the way.
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I quoted her literal response to the issue last page. Wherein she says it doesn't matter and we should talk about other shit.
In the debate she took it as an opportunity to say "Yes women can win" and toot her own horn. Bernie took it as an opportunity to say "Yes, women can win" and emphasizing his own history in supporting women.
As far as I can tell neither of them tried to make this an attack on the other or do anything but de-escalate the situation.
How dare she tell her side of events to the people around her.
CNN: "Senator Sanders, did you say a woman can't win?"
Sanders: "No."
CNN: "Senator Warren, what did you think when Senator Sanders said a woman can't win?"
In what respect is Warren responsible for shitty journalists being shitty?
Nice dude. You found a way to blame a woman for this the most out of anyone. It's impressive.
Even though we've got like tons of post sources just in the past 2 pages alone going over the various statements and sources for those statements on the issue.
Again, we have no idea WHO released the conversation. It only states Warren talked with two people, it does not state they were Warren campaign people. They could have been two Sanders campaign people. We don't know.
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Thisbis trying to have it both ways.
I don’t see how this bad question is in any way Warren’s fault or responsibility. Be mad at CNN for asking such a bad question.
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What precisely would you have had her say?
I don't think she wanted this out here, because it's stupid, and absent the heritage thing she hasn't done anything stupid. But once it's out you can either use it or drop and endorse Sanders. There are no other options.
I don't see how either candidate handled it badly either. Both basically just went and talked about how woman can totally win elections and also vote for me.
Acknowledge topic, say the right thing, pivot to self-promotion, don't try and start a fight.
Senator Warren refused to shake Senator Sander's hand after the debate.
This perfidious attack! The massive escalation!
This is joke dude. What are you even doing?
Might be related to him essentially calling her a liar during the debate.
If you like this thread you should be nicer in it, because I would really like to close it right now.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
1) During their conversation, Bernie says something about how if the Democratic nominee is a woman then Trump will attack her in sexist ways and that those attacks would be effective. Probably a true statement, but "effective" can be interpreted in a variety of ways. Perhaps he meant there's a subset of voters who will respond to those attacks, so it would make the margin smaller than if a man with identical positions were the nominee. If that's what he meant, it's a reasonable and fair point. But he tends to talk in an aggressive, blunt manner so I find it entirely plausible that...
2) Warren, informed by her history of being told women cannot do things (including winning elections), interprets "effective" as meaning that it would lead to a Trump victory. She is frustrated by this and shares it with several confidants. The story of this meeting becomes a semi-open secret inside the Democratic Party.
3) The story leaks. I suspect the initial source is the campaign who had the most to gain here (BIDEN) but we don't have any real details.
4) Bernie gives the following statement to CNN:
The bolded is an important escalation. And shows no self-reflection.
5) A couple hours later, Warren releases her statement. She says Bernie said a female candidate couldn't win and that she disagreed. But it's mostly conciliatory with how they agree on most issues, etc. etc. etc.
6) When asked at the debate Bernie repeats that it never happened.
7) Given the history of how sexist shit works, Warren's displeased with him in the moment, thus the post-debate interaction.
You know how this could have been fixed really easily? If Sanders opts to say something like:
I don't think either candidate can completely control the fact that people really enjoy fighting about useless bullshit.
Well it did help to point out how some people will always attack the woman over any slight no matter how small or whether she even did the thing or not
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An unreasonable number of Sanders supporters will take any excuse to portray someone as an enemy of the revolution. Outside of meekly cringing before him there was no way to stop this from happening once the story broke.
Given the immediate reaction to her confirming the story was to call her a liar, I don't see how anything could have worked. Both campaigns have tried to de-escalate but even in this thread we've still got "it's all Warrens fault" and "she's a liar" floating around.
At no point in this story has Bernie said anything close to an apology for what he said, I even if he didn’t mean it the way Warren took it. Unless you are claiming that Warren is 100% lying about the entire story and she made the whole thing up. Bernie seemingly said something and Warren took it in a way it wasn’t intended.
Instead of apologizing or offering any indication that he understands her feelings, Bernie doubles down and says that it’s not true.
And people wonder why Warren might be, in the moment, pissed at her friend and not exactly in the mood to shake his hand?
My original assertion is that this was a blunder and the only person it helps is Biden.
If Warren’s team or friend or whoever did it, it’s a mistake because they should have waited until Biden was gone.
If Sanders team or friend or whatever did it, then for fucks sake that’s stupid (and pretty unlikely unless they were purposely trying to sabotage him).
This helps Biden only. And I suppose CNN.
It was stupid for Sanders and Warren to go after each other. Wait till Biden is gone, then they can go at it.
That is what is so upsetting about all this to me: All the effort in this entire conversation is pointless if Biden doesn’t lose. Warren is my first choice, but I’d be happy with Sanders too. All the other candidates I’d vote for in the general, but they don’t excite me. Having these two go at each other, wether it’s just in the media or this forum or for realsies, while Biden is still winning is a fucking waste.
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It wasn't a blunder if Biden leaked it.
Honestly my eye has been literally involuntarily twitching reading the last couple of pages, but clearly CNN won last night’s debate because now we are fighting over the dumbest bullshit ever.
He's Bernie's speechwriter and is trying to wrestle his fans back towards being mad at Biden, who is going to walk away with this nomination if nobody does anything to stop it.