also, every homeworld is called Dirt.
every single one.
except for that one world named Water where the dolphins came from.
I've been watching a lot of space-related science videos on Youtube lately, including some videos surmising what alien life could look like (talking about microbes mostly) and under what conditions that not only intelligence but space-faring intelligence could exist. The guy I watch has pointed out several times that if you had a water-based intelligence, it's possible that they could never develop space travel, because how would they ever learn about fire? It would never be a necessity for them, so it's uses would never be explored.
Though potentially non-federation species might practice uplifting to allow the water-bound species to have space flight.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
also, every homeworld is called Dirt.
every single one.
except for that one world named Water where the dolphins came from.
I've been watching a lot of space-related science videos on Youtube lately, including some videos surmising what alien life could look like (talking about microbes mostly) and under what conditions that not only intelligence but space-faring intelligence could exist. The guy I watch has pointed out several times that if you had a water-based intelligence, it's possible that they could never develop space travel, because how would they ever learn about fire? It would never be a necessity for them, so it's uses would never be explored.
Though potentially non-federation species might practice uplifting to allow the water-bound species to have space flight.
The other thing is, if you thought the mass requirements for bringing along air and (the right amount of) heat were bad, hoooo boy don't get us started on water.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Oh man and now I remember that the Enterprise D has a whale tank (or was it a dolphin tank?) So I guess one waterbound species is definitely participating in spaceflight, though we never get to speak with them or learn the intricacies of their language within the show.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
also, every homeworld is called Dirt.
every single one.
except for that one world named Water where the dolphins came from.
I've been watching a lot of space-related science videos on Youtube lately, including some videos surmising what alien life could look like (talking about microbes mostly) and under what conditions that not only intelligence but space-faring intelligence could exist. The guy I watch has pointed out several times that if you had a water-based intelligence, it's possible that they could never develop space travel, because how would they ever learn about fire? It would never be a necessity for them, so it's uses would never be explored.
Though potentially non-federation species might practice uplifting to allow the water-bound species to have space flight.
The other thing is, if you thought the mass requirements for bringing along air and (the right amount of) heat were bad, hoooo boy don't get us started on water.
Ay laddy but have ya naey heard of transparent aluminum?
also, every homeworld is called Dirt.
every single one.
except for that one world named Water where the dolphins came from.
I've been watching a lot of space-related science videos on Youtube lately, including some videos surmising what alien life could look like (talking about microbes mostly) and under what conditions that not only intelligence but space-faring intelligence could exist. The guy I watch has pointed out several times that if you had a water-based intelligence, it's possible that they could never develop space travel, because how would they ever learn about fire? It would never be a necessity for them, so it's uses would never be explored.
Though potentially non-federation species might practice uplifting to allow the water-bound species to have space flight.
If by fire you mean combustion and by combustion you mean a chemical reaction where energy is released as heat, a water-based life form has plenty of opportunities to discover it, and a lot of potential uses for it (changing the temperature of things in a controlled manner is broadly useful for basically any form of life, as is being able to manipulate chemical energy in general).
I think if you develop intelligence, developing a broad understanding of physics and chemistry is basically inevitable in a long enough time span (granted you don't go extinct or evolve away from intelligence). I can't imagine a form of intelligent life that would not stand to benefit from understanding the fundamental laws of nature. Dolphins are pretty far from that, but they arguably already have tool use.
Oh man and now I remember that the Enterprise D has a whale tank (or was it a dolphin tank?) So I guess one waterbound species is definitely participating in spaceflight, though we never get to speak with them or learn the intricacies of their language within the show.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
I more or less agree with all of this, although I disagree with the idea that there are no mysteries or that the show isn't engaging enough. The rest of this here I feel is fairly spot on.
I more or less agree with all of this, although I disagree with the idea that there are no mysteries or that the show isn't engaging enough. The rest of this here I feel is fairly spot on.
Eh.. I love the channel, but I feel like it's very, very early and wayyy too early to judge the way he did
And his point at around 6:00 is just wrong
The show explicitly mentions that a great number of federation planets threatened to leave the federation if the rescue mission was to continue.
Edit: A point he didn't even mention! And the reason the Admiral was so angry at Picard!
Yeah, the federation should have tens of thousands of ships, but loosing 10000 of them plus one of the most important shipyards in the federation is gonna fucking sting
The federation lost 39 battleships and 11000 people at Wolf 359, and that led to a noticeable weakening in time following shortly after
The federation lost 10000 warp capable "rescue ships", and 90000 people, who were all immensely valuable specialists working at the most important federation shipyard, which was also completely lost, in such a way that even 15 years after the whole planet it was on, mars, is still on fire.
And that's not gonna sting?
autono-wally, erotibot300 on
+6
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
also, every homeworld is called Dirt.
every single one.
except for that one world named Water where the dolphins came from.
I've been watching a lot of space-related science videos on Youtube lately, including some videos surmising what alien life could look like (talking about microbes mostly) and under what conditions that not only intelligence but space-faring intelligence could exist. The guy I watch has pointed out several times that if you had a water-based intelligence, it's possible that they could never develop space travel, because how would they ever learn about fire? It would never be a necessity for them, so it's uses would never be explored.
Though potentially non-federation species might practice uplifting to allow the water-bound species to have space flight.
If by fire you mean combustion and by combustion you mean a chemical reaction where energy is released as heat, a water-based life form has plenty of opportunities to discover it, and a lot of potential uses for it (changing the temperature of things in a controlled manner is broadly useful for basically any form of life, as is being able to manipulate chemical energy in general).
I think if you develop intelligence, developing a broad understanding of physics and chemistry is basically inevitable in a long enough time span (granted you don't go extinct or evolve away from intelligence). I can't imagine a form of intelligent life that would not stand to benefit from understanding the fundamental laws of nature. Dolphins are pretty far from that, but they arguably already have tool use.
No, I specifically mean fire, not just "any combustion." Because whatever heat you can generate underwater, I don't think it would be sufficient to raise a rocket into space, and that's the main problem. You could be a species that is highly intelligent and learns the sciences, but perhaps space flight is out of reach because of the limitations of sea life, regardless of your intelligence.
Like to flip it around, would we have been able to invent rockets if we were required by physics to only be able to construct them under water? Putting on a diving suit and jumping down into the depths every time we needed to work on it? I am unconvinced the answer would be yes.
Edit: There's also the possibility of a water-bound species living on a planet that simply has no dry land and is a complete ocean world (which would be the reason water life is supreme). Even if they were able to logic out rockets somehow, they could never use them to leave orbit.
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I've wondered about the water-based thing myself. Metalworking is a tech avenue that was very easy for humanity because of an abundance of metals and we're adapted to an environment that is conducive to metalworking with some changes, but also allows metal to retain its worked shape afterwards.
In a water environment, I just don't see how that would work. One of the big basic things for even primitive metalworking is using things like pumps and bellows to pressurize air to increase airflow into a fire, allowing for higher temperatures to form better metal materials. In water, the water itself is going to cool any kind of combustion reaction enormously more than the added oxygen. Not to mention the slew of added questionable things like whether or not metal would really be an advantage to a society that swims (everybody wearing metal would sink, projectiles are largely useless, anything besides spears and nets would be largely useless, etc).
There are other liquid environments besides water, but most of those (methane, ammonia, etc) are so cold that I don't know if life could even develop because the energy gradient would be so limited. Plus, many of those liquids would be wildly combustible with dissolved oxygen present, which would inherently prevent the development of metalworking.
I don't think there would be any way for it work outside of an organism that has "dry" atmosphere available and can tolerate and work in it somehow. If a species could manage that, then they could develop coastal foundries and launch sites. Alternatively, maybe they get lucky and have a genius or two that figures out physics in a different way than us and allows them to skip past chemical rocket launches and go right to antigravity or space elevators or something.
Im not sure how an aquatic species would develop electronics.
The difficulties of developing technology as a water based species aside, its possible for intelligent life to evolve on a planet where the crust lacks sufficient elemental components and quanitites for advanced technolgy and thatd be a bummer.
oh god maybe thats our planet
Styrofoam Sammich on
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Im not sure how an aquatic species would develop electronics.
The difficulties of developing technology as a water based species aside, its possible for intelligent life to evolve on a planet where the crust lacks sufficient elemental components and quanitites for advanced technolgy and thatd be a bummer.
oh god maybe thats our planet
I think as long as a species can get to space and gather resources from their local system they should be good as far as resources go. It's why I really want someone to seriously put a proposal forward for mining the asteroid belt.
+2
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
edited February 2020
So watched Dax on a roaring rampage of revenge, The Maquis, and whatever one after it where Garak is having issues.
Robinson and Alaimo nail that shit. This is why you don't slather your actors' face with so much crap that they can barely emote or speak properly... Discovery.
I can understand why some people really liked Dukat and thought he was a not totally evil guy. He's running in first impressions space here, and his confrontation with the Cardassian ships (where he demands they stand down or he'll fire on them himself) is pretty hard core and is well in line with something Worf would have done.
The 'Saints in Paradise' speech is good and well delivered. It didn't really land well with me though because at this point he's talking about people who are a long way from being saints. Really good delivery by Brooks though. I'm generally not a fan of his hyper-enunciation, but when it works, it works
Bashir and Dax had a casual interaction in her apartment where he wasn't totally macking on her, which was nice.
There was much shouting about the security of the station and Odo's response is that they should let him go full police state. Maybe, just maybe, get yourself a weapons screening system that actually works backed up by internal sensors that activate security fields, trigger some alarms, and lock down all the docked ships if a weapon discharge is detected. Quark's ability to get anything for anyone who can pay is a bit of an issue to be sure, but holy crap the number of people running around with lethal weaponry is nuts.
Klingons have a really long lifespan. And they're not creaking along like McCoy in the first TNG episode either, they're blendering people at that age.
It turns out that a Klingon ship can generate a technobabble field that disables phasers (handheld only I assume). This seems a bit more important than the usual technobabble that is used once and then discarded given that phasers seem to have a large market share when it comes to personal weapons. Slug throwers on a spaceship might not be the smartest thing, but personally I'd want to have that as a backup since I'm pretty sure that even Trek would have problems coming up with technobabble that prevents oxidation.
So at about halfway through S2, DS9 is cooking with gas and has been for quite a while. It's not like B5 where they've really started hitting the long arcs at this point, but the character work is very solid.
edit: Oh, and the Maquis episodes had a Class M asteroid that had Earth normal gravity and what looked like a tropical rain forest thing going on. That got an eyeroll.
daveNYC on
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
edit: Oh, and the Maquis episodes had a Class M asteroid that had Earth normal gravity and what looked like a tropical rain forest thing going on. That got an eyeroll.
I more or less agree with all of this, although I disagree with the idea that there are no mysteries or that the show isn't engaging enough. The rest of this here I feel is fairly spot on.
Eh.. I love the channel, but I feel like it's very, very early and wayyy too early to judge the way he did
And his point at around 6:00 is just wrong
The show explicitly mentions that a great number of federation planets threatened to leave the federation if the rescue mission was to continue.
Edit: A point he didn't even mention! And the reason the Admiral was so angry at Picard!
Yeah, the federation should have tens of thousands of ships, but loosing 10000 of them plus one of the most important shipyards in the federation is gonna fucking sting
The federation lost 39 battleships and 11000 people at Wolf 359, and that led to a noticeable weakening in time following shortly after
The federation lost 10000 warp capable "rescue ships", and 90000 people, who were all immensely valuable specialists working at the most important federation shipyard, which was also completely lost, in such a way that even 15 years after the whole planet it was on, mars, is still on fire.
And that's not gonna sting?
Fair point but I think he is on the mark with the mustache twirling villains and overwrought drama. It's almost a different show when Stewart isn't on camera.
I more or less agree with all of this, although I disagree with the idea that there are no mysteries or that the show isn't engaging enough. The rest of this here I feel is fairly spot on.
Eh.. I love the channel, but I feel like it's very, very early and wayyy too early to judge the way he did
And his point at around 6:00 is just wrong
The show explicitly mentions that a great number of federation planets threatened to leave the federation if the rescue mission was to continue.
Edit: A point he didn't even mention! And the reason the Admiral was so angry at Picard!
Yeah, the federation should have tens of thousands of ships, but loosing 10000 of them plus one of the most important shipyards in the federation is gonna fucking sting
The federation lost 39 battleships and 11000 people at Wolf 359, and that led to a noticeable weakening in time following shortly after
The federation lost 10000 warp capable "rescue ships", and 90000 people, who were all immensely valuable specialists working at the most important federation shipyard, which was also completely lost, in such a way that even 15 years after the whole planet it was on, mars, is still on fire.
And that's not gonna sting?
Fair point but I think he is on the mark with the mustache twirling villains and overwrought drama. It's almost a different show when Stewart isn't on camera.
I don't agree here either!
The "villains" haven't even been fully explored yet, and all we know of their motives is some legend about them supposedly hating synthetic life. Not much!
yeah, they want to get to Soji, but even then, killing Daj wasn't the full plan either.
So yeah.. He's lamenting everything being out in the open when it clearly isn't. I'm pretty sure we're a twist or 3 away from the real villains
I more or less agree with all of this, although I disagree with the idea that there are no mysteries or that the show isn't engaging enough. The rest of this here I feel is fairly spot on.
Eh.. I love the channel, but I feel like it's very, very early and wayyy too early to judge the way he did
And his point at around 6:00 is just wrong
The show explicitly mentions that a great number of federation planets threatened to leave the federation if the rescue mission was to continue.
Edit: A point he didn't even mention! And the reason the Admiral was so angry at Picard!
Yeah, the federation should have tens of thousands of ships, but loosing 10000 of them plus one of the most important shipyards in the federation is gonna fucking sting
The federation lost 39 battleships and 11000 people at Wolf 359, and that led to a noticeable weakening in time following shortly after
The federation lost 10000 warp capable "rescue ships", and 90000 people, who were all immensely valuable specialists working at the most important federation shipyard, which was also completely lost, in such a way that even 15 years after the whole planet it was on, mars, is still on fire.
And that's not gonna sting?
Fair point but I think he is on the mark with the mustache twirling villains and overwrought drama. It's almost a different show when Stewart isn't on camera.
I don't agree here either!
The "villains" haven't even been fully explored yet, and all we know of their motives is some legend about them supposedly hating synthetic life. Not much!
yeah, they want to get to Soji, but even then, killing Daj wasn't the full plan either.
So yeah.. He's lamenting everything being out in the open when it clearly isn't. I'm pretty sure we're a twist or 3 away from the real villains
I'm talking less about the motives and story beats and more about the dialogue and acting.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
I more or less agree with all of this, although I disagree with the idea that there are no mysteries or that the show isn't engaging enough. The rest of this here I feel is fairly spot on.
Eh.. I love the channel, but I feel like it's very, very early and wayyy too early to judge the way he did
And his point at around 6:00 is just wrong
The show explicitly mentions that a great number of federation planets threatened to leave the federation if the rescue mission was to continue.
Edit: A point he didn't even mention! And the reason the Admiral was so angry at Picard!
Yeah, the federation should have tens of thousands of ships, but loosing 10000 of them plus one of the most important shipyards in the federation is gonna fucking sting
The federation lost 39 battleships and 11000 people at Wolf 359, and that led to a noticeable weakening in time following shortly after
The federation lost 10000 warp capable "rescue ships", and 90000 people, who were all immensely valuable specialists working at the most important federation shipyard, which was also completely lost, in such a way that even 15 years after the whole planet it was on, mars, is still on fire.
And that's not gonna sting?
Fair point but I think he is on the mark with the mustache twirling villains and overwrought drama. It's almost a different show when Stewart isn't on camera.
I don't agree here either!
The "villains" haven't even been fully explored yet, and all we know of their motives is some legend about them supposedly hating synthetic life. Not much!
yeah, they want to get to Soji, but even then, killing Daj wasn't the full plan either.
So yeah.. He's lamenting everything being out in the open when it clearly isn't. I'm pretty sure we're a twist or 3 away from the real villains
didn't.. the say that
14 planets were threatening to leave, or am I misremembering? I think this video is incredibly on point about how the show doesn't get how the federation actually works
I more or less agree with all of this, although I disagree with the idea that there are no mysteries or that the show isn't engaging enough. The rest of this here I feel is fairly spot on.
Eh.. I love the channel, but I feel like it's very, very early and wayyy too early to judge the way he did
And his point at around 6:00 is just wrong
The show explicitly mentions that a great number of federation planets threatened to leave the federation if the rescue mission was to continue.
Edit: A point he didn't even mention! And the reason the Admiral was so angry at Picard!
Yeah, the federation should have tens of thousands of ships, but loosing 10000 of them plus one of the most important shipyards in the federation is gonna fucking sting
The federation lost 39 battleships and 11000 people at Wolf 359, and that led to a noticeable weakening in time following shortly after
The federation lost 10000 warp capable "rescue ships", and 90000 people, who were all immensely valuable specialists working at the most important federation shipyard, which was also completely lost, in such a way that even 15 years after the whole planet it was on, mars, is still on fire.
And that's not gonna sting?
Fair point but I think he is on the mark with the mustache twirling villains and overwrought drama. It's almost a different show when Stewart isn't on camera.
I don't agree here either!
The "villains" haven't even been fully explored yet, and all we know of their motives is some legend about them supposedly hating synthetic life. Not much!
yeah, they want to get to Soji, but even then, killing Daj wasn't the full plan either.
So yeah.. He's lamenting everything being out in the open when it clearly isn't. I'm pretty sure we're a twist or 3 away from the real villains
didn't.. the say that
14 planets were threatening to leave, or am I misremembering? I think this video is incredibly on point about how the show doesn't get how the federation actually works
How does it actually work? Wolf 359 were "just" 39 ships lost.
The federation sent 600 ships to retake DS9, and that was an extremely major force.
There's no indicator in any of the new shows that the federation has more than like 5000 ships usually. No "tens of thousands"
And the federation has 150 worlds.
also, every homeworld is called Dirt.
every single one.
except for that one world named Water where the dolphins came from.
I've been watching a lot of space-related science videos on Youtube lately, including some videos surmising what alien life could look like (talking about microbes mostly) and under what conditions that not only intelligence but space-faring intelligence could exist. The guy I watch has pointed out several times that if you had a water-based intelligence, it's possible that they could never develop space travel, because how would they ever learn about fire? It would never be a necessity for them, so it's uses would never be explored.
Though potentially non-federation species might practice uplifting to allow the water-bound species to have space flight.
If by fire you mean combustion and by combustion you mean a chemical reaction where energy is released as heat, a water-based life form has plenty of opportunities to discover it, and a lot of potential uses for it (changing the temperature of things in a controlled manner is broadly useful for basically any form of life, as is being able to manipulate chemical energy in general).
I think if you develop intelligence, developing a broad understanding of physics and chemistry is basically inevitable in a long enough time span (granted you don't go extinct or evolve away from intelligence). I can't imagine a form of intelligent life that would not stand to benefit from understanding the fundamental laws of nature. Dolphins are pretty far from that, but they arguably already have tool use.
No, I specifically mean fire, not just "any combustion." Because whatever heat you can generate underwater, I don't think it would be sufficient to raise a rocket into space, and that's the main problem. You could be a species that is highly intelligent and learns the sciences, but perhaps space flight is out of reach because of the limitations of sea life, regardless of your intelligence.
Like to flip it around, would we have been able to invent rockets if we were required by physics to only be able to construct them under water? Putting on a diving suit and jumping down into the depths every time we needed to work on it? I am unconvinced the answer would be yes.
Edit: There's also the possibility of a water-bound species living on a planet that simply has no dry land and is a complete ocean world (which would be the reason water life is supreme). Even if they were able to logic out rockets somehow, they could never use them to leave orbit.
I think you overestimate the degree to which an alien race would have to discover the same technologies in the same orders and have tech that operates in the same ways in order to ultimately reach the same level of development as us.
For instance, a water-based species, even if they were on a planet without dry land, would probably have an intuitive concept of buoyancy and would be able to use that to develop floating platforms for the purpose of performing experiments outside of water. There could be a lot of benefits for them to do so, a lot of aquatic species leave the water to escape from predators, there are resources they could obtain a lot easier from the atmosphere, etc. You can even make it into the stratosphere with a balloon alone. Experiments with combustion (which they should be able to discover under water) outside of water should allow them to discover even more. Also, they could easily make gas pockets underwater for the purpose of experimenting as well.
Worth mentioning that you absolutely can have fire under water, it's just difficult, but that's on Earth, whose to say that the chemical makeup of their planet won't be totally different in a way that makes it easier? I think having any notion of combustion will ultimately lead to discovering more significant ones. Also, it's possible that it could be a lot easier to reach space (or a lot harder) just based on the physical properties of their planet.
Also you can definitely reach space without metal or fire. It would just be wildly inefficient or impractical for us to do so, and you would probably discover both of those things in the process of reaching that level of technology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-rocket_spacelaunch
I continued with TNG. At least now I now where the Tanagra meme comes from. That episode doesn't really hold up to any scrutiny, does it. At least the next one seems way better. I wonder if Michael from Discovery was a bit inspired by Ro.
It holds up wonderfully. It's probably the best or at least top 5 best episodes of Treki
The strange sunglasses, the whole oversexualization, Narek talking about "Terrans", not humans..
And TNG never had a mirror universe episode!
On the one hand, I feel like recent Trek has gone a bit too hard on the mirror universe just for the sake of it, and introducing it into a series that is basically end-to-end references to other stuff in Trek seems like taking it a step to far into "greatest hits" territory. On the other hand, no matter what my head says my heart wants to see Mirror Picard pretty damn bad.
Darmok works as an allegory but absolutely falls apart from a technical perspective. So, in other words, it's exactly like every other Star Trek episode, ever.
All language is based on imagery and metaphor, and is intrinsically linked with the context from which it developed and in which it is used. There's absolutely no reason the universal translator wouldn't work in this case unless it doesn't work for pretty much every single Earth-based language.
It's almost as if the episode itself is a metaphor......
I more or less agree with all of this, although I disagree with the idea that there are no mysteries or that the show isn't engaging enough. The rest of this here I feel is fairly spot on.
Eh.. I love the channel, but I feel like it's very, very early and wayyy too early to judge the way he did
And his point at around 6:00 is just wrong
The show explicitly mentions that a great number of federation planets threatened to leave the federation if the rescue mission was to continue.
Edit: A point he didn't even mention! And the reason the Admiral was so angry at Picard!
Yeah, the federation should have tens of thousands of ships, but loosing 10000 of them plus one of the most important shipyards in the federation is gonna fucking sting
The federation lost 39 battleships and 11000 people at Wolf 359, and that led to a noticeable weakening in time following shortly after
The federation lost 10000 warp capable "rescue ships", and 90000 people, who were all immensely valuable specialists working at the most important federation shipyard, which was also completely lost, in such a way that even 15 years after the whole planet it was on, mars, is still on fire.
And that's not gonna sting?
Fair point but I think he is on the mark with the mustache twirling villains and overwrought drama. It's almost a different show when Stewart isn't on camera.
I don't agree here either!
The "villains" haven't even been fully explored yet, and all we know of their motives is some legend about them supposedly hating synthetic life. Not much!
yeah, they want to get to Soji, but even then, killing Daj wasn't the full plan either.
So yeah.. He's lamenting everything being out in the open when it clearly isn't. I'm pretty sure we're a twist or 3 away from the real villains
didn't.. the say that
14 planets were threatening to leave, or am I misremembering? I think this video is incredibly on point about how the show doesn't get how the federation actually works
How does it actually work? Wolf 359 were "just" 39 ships lost.
The federation sent 600 ships to retake DS9, and that was an extremely major force.
There's no indicator in any of the new shows that the federation has more than like 5000 ships usually. No "tens of thousands"
And the federation has 150 worlds.
10% of that leaving is a huge blow!
I'm assuming
ships vary wildly in the amount of resources they require to build and the amount of crew they need to operate, too.
Also Clancy said that 14 species were threatening to leave and didn't say which, some of those species could have an out-sized impact on the resources of the federation.
Darmok works as an allegory but absolutely falls apart from a technical perspective. So, in other words, it's exactly like every other Star Trek episode, ever.
All language is based on imagery and metaphor, and is intrinsically linked with the context from which it developed and in which it is used. There's absolutely no reason the universal translator wouldn't work in this case unless it doesn't work for pretty much every single Earth-based language.
It's almost as if the episode itself is a metaphor......
Man, one thing that is really standing out with Picard is how they're not afraid to show just how damn arrogant he is and how he has a nasty habit of just not keeping up with people. He may have joined in on the poker game at the end of TNG but he never really stopped being the sort of person who lives in his own little world to his own detriment. His style works great in the captain's chair but out in the real world he's just kinda lost.
The overly-sexualized sister villain is getting a bit tiresome. It's almost comical how she's strutting around like someone you'd expect to see in the mirror universe, complete with Villainous Corset™. I'm also fully expecting a face turn from the brother once he gets thoroughly fed up with the sister's shit. Like, there will prolly be a scene where he finally runs into the main gang and he just flips and tells them everything to save the synth or something like that.
I'm really glad the sword scene didn't turn out to be TNG movie era Action Picard schlock. I was pretty fearful that they were gonna get stupid with it and have Picard actually sword fight someone so that was definitely a big ole sigh of relief from me. It did feel like Elnor changed his mind awful damn quick and conveniently though.
That ancient Bird of Prey looked fucking great.
Seven of Nine has joined the server! I'm curious what justification they're gonna have for her being there but so far the show is doing a heeeeell of a lot better than Disco in the writing department (even if the villains are total cornballs so far) so I've got some faith.
All in all a fun episode and it looks like we're about to start in on proper adventuring hijinks next episode now that the party is assembled which I'm more than ready for.
Re: Junkball review
I get what he's saying regarding how the villains being in our face already can make it feel like some of the mystery is lost but the real crux of the show isn't what they're up to, it's the origins of these advanced synths. Both the heroes and villains are on the same basic quest: To find out what the fuck these things are and where they came from (with the heroes getting a bonus rescue mission). So, the real question is whether that mystery is enough to keep you engaged with the show while both goodies and baddies try to sort this out from different starting points and what happens once those paths cross.
For me, I'm curious where they're going with that and hanging out with Picard and the new gang is proving to be good times so that's enough to keep me tuning in each Thursday.
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Watched 4 and I gotta say I'm having a lot of fun so far with Picard. His crew is engaging in a way that makes me want to see more of them, we spend a decent amount of time seeing Picard dealing with the moral ramifications of what happened, and honestly even the awkward cheeseball stuff is mostly cheesy in a way that brings me back to TNG.
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I've been watching a lot of space-related science videos on Youtube lately, including some videos surmising what alien life could look like (talking about microbes mostly) and under what conditions that not only intelligence but space-faring intelligence could exist. The guy I watch has pointed out several times that if you had a water-based intelligence, it's possible that they could never develop space travel, because how would they ever learn about fire? It would never be a necessity for them, so it's uses would never be explored.
Though potentially non-federation species might practice uplifting to allow the water-bound species to have space flight.
The other thing is, if you thought the mass requirements for bringing along air and (the right amount of) heat were bad, hoooo boy don't get us started on water.
Ay laddy but have ya naey heard of transparent aluminum?
If by fire you mean combustion and by combustion you mean a chemical reaction where energy is released as heat, a water-based life form has plenty of opportunities to discover it, and a lot of potential uses for it (changing the temperature of things in a controlled manner is broadly useful for basically any form of life, as is being able to manipulate chemical energy in general).
I think if you develop intelligence, developing a broad understanding of physics and chemistry is basically inevitable in a long enough time span (granted you don't go extinct or evolve away from intelligence). I can't imagine a form of intelligent life that would not stand to benefit from understanding the fundamental laws of nature. Dolphins are pretty far from that, but they arguably already have tool use.
I more or less agree with all of this, although I disagree with the idea that there are no mysteries or that the show isn't engaging enough. The rest of this here I feel is fairly spot on.
Eh.. I love the channel, but I feel like it's very, very early and wayyy too early to judge the way he did
And his point at around 6:00 is just wrong
Edit: A point he didn't even mention! And the reason the Admiral was so angry at Picard!
Yeah, the federation should have tens of thousands of ships, but loosing 10000 of them plus one of the most important shipyards in the federation is gonna fucking sting
The federation lost 39 battleships and 11000 people at Wolf 359, and that led to a noticeable weakening in time following shortly after
The federation lost 10000 warp capable "rescue ships", and 90000 people, who were all immensely valuable specialists working at the most important federation shipyard, which was also completely lost, in such a way that even 15 years after the whole planet it was on, mars, is still on fire.
And that's not gonna sting?
No, I specifically mean fire, not just "any combustion." Because whatever heat you can generate underwater, I don't think it would be sufficient to raise a rocket into space, and that's the main problem. You could be a species that is highly intelligent and learns the sciences, but perhaps space flight is out of reach because of the limitations of sea life, regardless of your intelligence.
Like to flip it around, would we have been able to invent rockets if we were required by physics to only be able to construct them under water? Putting on a diving suit and jumping down into the depths every time we needed to work on it? I am unconvinced the answer would be yes.
Edit: There's also the possibility of a water-bound species living on a planet that simply has no dry land and is a complete ocean world (which would be the reason water life is supreme). Even if they were able to logic out rockets somehow, they could never use them to leave orbit.
In a water environment, I just don't see how that would work. One of the big basic things for even primitive metalworking is using things like pumps and bellows to pressurize air to increase airflow into a fire, allowing for higher temperatures to form better metal materials. In water, the water itself is going to cool any kind of combustion reaction enormously more than the added oxygen. Not to mention the slew of added questionable things like whether or not metal would really be an advantage to a society that swims (everybody wearing metal would sink, projectiles are largely useless, anything besides spears and nets would be largely useless, etc).
There are other liquid environments besides water, but most of those (methane, ammonia, etc) are so cold that I don't know if life could even develop because the energy gradient would be so limited. Plus, many of those liquids would be wildly combustible with dissolved oxygen present, which would inherently prevent the development of metalworking.
I don't think there would be any way for it work outside of an organism that has "dry" atmosphere available and can tolerate and work in it somehow. If a species could manage that, then they could develop coastal foundries and launch sites. Alternatively, maybe they get lucky and have a genius or two that figures out physics in a different way than us and allows them to skip past chemical rocket launches and go right to antigravity or space elevators or something.
The difficulties of developing technology as a water based species aside, its possible for intelligent life to evolve on a planet where the crust lacks sufficient elemental components and quanitites for advanced technolgy and thatd be a bummer.
I suddenly feel less dumb about naming a major city next to an underground river "Water Water Water" in my three made-up languages in a story I wrote.
I think as long as a species can get to space and gather resources from their local system they should be good as far as resources go. It's why I really want someone to seriously put a proposal forward for mining the asteroid belt.
So at about halfway through S2, DS9 is cooking with gas and has been for quite a while. It's not like B5 where they've really started hitting the long arcs at this point, but the character work is very solid.
edit: Oh, and the Maquis episodes had a Class M asteroid that had Earth normal gravity and what looked like a tropical rain forest thing going on. That got an eyeroll.
Yeah, they found asteroid M
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Fair point but I think he is on the mark with the mustache twirling villains and overwrought drama. It's almost a different show when Stewart isn't on camera.
I don't agree here either!
yeah, they want to get to Soji, but even then, killing Daj wasn't the full plan either.
So yeah.. He's lamenting everything being out in the open when it clearly isn't. I'm pretty sure we're a twist or 3 away from the real villains
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sigh
I'm talking less about the motives and story beats and more about the dialogue and acting.
didn't.. the say that
The federation sent 600 ships to retake DS9, and that was an extremely major force.
There's no indicator in any of the new shows that the federation has more than like 5000 ships usually. No "tens of thousands"
And the federation has 150 worlds.
10% of that leaving is a huge blow!
I think you overestimate the degree to which an alien race would have to discover the same technologies in the same orders and have tech that operates in the same ways in order to ultimately reach the same level of development as us.
For instance, a water-based species, even if they were on a planet without dry land, would probably have an intuitive concept of buoyancy and would be able to use that to develop floating platforms for the purpose of performing experiments outside of water. There could be a lot of benefits for them to do so, a lot of aquatic species leave the water to escape from predators, there are resources they could obtain a lot easier from the atmosphere, etc. You can even make it into the stratosphere with a balloon alone. Experiments with combustion (which they should be able to discover under water) outside of water should allow them to discover even more. Also, they could easily make gas pockets underwater for the purpose of experimenting as well.
Worth mentioning that you absolutely can have fire under water, it's just difficult, but that's on Earth, whose to say that the chemical makeup of their planet won't be totally different in a way that makes it easier? I think having any notion of combustion will ultimately lead to discovering more significant ones. Also, it's possible that it could be a lot easier to reach space (or a lot harder) just based on the physical properties of their planet.
Also you can definitely reach space without metal or fire. It would just be wildly inefficient or impractical for us to do so, and you would probably discover both of those things in the process of reaching that level of technology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-rocket_spacelaunch
The strange sunglasses, the whole oversexualization, Narek talking about "Terrans", not humans..
And TNG never had a mirror universe episode!
It holds up wonderfully. It's probably the best or at least top 5 best episodes of Treki
It's almost as if the episode itself is a metaphor......
I'm assuming
Also Clancy said that 14 species were threatening to leave and didn't say which, some of those species could have an out-sized impact on the resources of the federation.
Darmokception
Picard, under the lights.
Q, upon his judgement throne.
Worf, when he could not stand.
O'Brien, when he suffered.
Spock, his captain restored.
The overly-sexualized sister villain is getting a bit tiresome. It's almost comical how she's strutting around like someone you'd expect to see in the mirror universe, complete with Villainous Corset™. I'm also fully expecting a face turn from the brother once he gets thoroughly fed up with the sister's shit. Like, there will prolly be a scene where he finally runs into the main gang and he just flips and tells them everything to save the synth or something like that.
I'm really glad the sword scene didn't turn out to be TNG movie era Action Picard schlock. I was pretty fearful that they were gonna get stupid with it and have Picard actually sword fight someone so that was definitely a big ole sigh of relief from me. It did feel like Elnor changed his mind awful damn quick and conveniently though.
That ancient Bird of Prey looked fucking great.
Seven of Nine has joined the server! I'm curious what justification they're gonna have for her being there but so far the show is doing a heeeeell of a lot better than Disco in the writing department (even if the villains are total cornballs so far) so I've got some faith.
All in all a fun episode and it looks like we're about to start in on proper adventuring hijinks next episode now that the party is assembled which I'm more than ready for.
Re: Junkball review
For me, I'm curious where they're going with that and hanging out with Picard and the new gang is proving to be good times so that's enough to keep me tuning in each Thursday.