Only question is the Drop Pods, are Drop Pods even good on this edition? Don't see anybody bothering,
So for most of the edition they were terrible. But now they have a few small uses with the codex space marines. They are only way to start a unit off the board and deep strike them turn 1.
Most common use is in an iron hands army dropping in a devastator squad with 4 gravcannons and a cherab. The squad can target and delete a target first turn using the stratagem that lets you get rerolls on your grav.
Not sure they are used outside of that.
I wonder if that would change if Drop Pods were treated as terrain instead of as a unit.
I miss assault vechicles in general, but I understand that the game balance is severely affected when it’s too easy to get charges off. It doens’t quite fit with the lore for squads to hunker inside them for a turn, but I think it’s an OK compromise. The other easy solution I think would be for them to have a cheap 1 CP stratagem to self-destruct, though that also might not be very lore friendly.
Well, I don’t think that’s a problem in and of itself. I think that when and how one spends CP is one of the most tactical & engaging aspects of 8th edition. I think the game could benefit from more normalized CP income and costs, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with building your army to work around how you plan to spend CP. I used “I think” four times there in short succession and as a linguist I’m ashamed at the lack of variety. But unfortunately is all just my opinion: I’m not some kind of 40k scientist.
I think CP allocation should be a flat amount based on point size, with the balancing done at the army-specific strategem level instead of at the army level. Having two armies where one player has 8 command points and the other player has 18 is ludicrous.
Alternately, we could all agree to start a campaign to publically shame anyone who adds Loyal 32 or Rusty 17 type shenanigans to their armies.
Made to Order Valhallans next week and this guy:
I actually like it, for such an old model it's pretty nice. His claw is way more interesting than his successor model's.
Made to order... I know 3D Printing isn't really a viable option for us (it will be by the end of this year or next, guaranteed), but industrial 3D printing would allow GW to print models to order forever. And in insane ways -- want a MK2 Crusade Tactical Squad Equivalent with period appropriate bolters and weapons? No need to make a mold of that or keep a warehouse full. Just keep the STL files handy and print the sprues.
Wonder if they're looking into that sort of thing.
I think CP allocation should be a flat amount based on point size, with the balancing done at the army-specific strategem level instead of at the army level. Having two armies where one player has 8 command points and the other player has 18 is ludicrous.
Alternately, we could all agree to start a campaign to publically shame anyone who adds Loyal 32 or Rusty 17 type shenanigans to their armies.
Or get rid of the generic detachments and have each codex have ones specific to their army. So the big ticket armies like Knights and Custodes could get more CP despite their low model count, while IG would need to bring more than 32 models to get the fat points. That'd probably come with it's own problems though.
If there were one core issue that I think is driving the balance problems, it's that GW seems to only consider things like strategems, points cost, various stats and whatnot, in isolation. Strategem A might be fine, strategem B might be fine, but combine them with Army Trait X and something involving rerolls and it becomes very much not fine. Even then things like the Iron Hands release only make sense if GW just didn't do any testing given how really really good a lot of their stuff was.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
Like, they’re ok, but the problem with them, and a lot of Tau units, is that there are better options at similar points costs.
Why bring kroot when a min strike squad is cheaper and tougher mathematically?
Why bring Vespid when you can bring a commander?
Why play the tanks when Riptides exist?
Why play the planes, when a coldstars is basically one of the best “planes” in the game?
The new book helps a lot with some of these questions. Breachers have a reason for existing now, crisis suits can rival broadsides, and you could argue for three bombers in FSE to use the strat (and aggressive footing/default FSE is good for them) but it’s a little gimmicky. The bombers are good if you’re expecting to see plaguebearers, it’s the only way to reduce their number before the -1 kicks in.
Tau planes also have the strange situation where they’re the only overcharge guns in the game that renders the weapon unusable on a 1 AND gives the gun a -1 to hit from moving.
Looking at that Flightstorm stratagem, I believe as things currently stand, the Remora Drone Stealth Fighters have the Flyer battlefield key word. Also, that strat refers to a unit.
So again, probably a gimmick, but it might be interesting to have a screen of Remora's and tag multiple units to inflict mortal wounds on for 1 cp.
So played a game today, the first in a while against the IH Dreadnought list. You know the one.
25-18 to my opponent, but for ITC that’s a close game.
So the FSE list is good. Great even. But if you mess up you are going to get punished hard. I deployed aggressively, but because our game was using the old ITC pack got seized on and lost a lot of drones and a riptide. I still managed to kill all of his infantry in return but some bad damage rolls left two of his character dreads on 3 wounds between them which cost me my coldstars on response.
Still it was a good showing regardless. With some practice the marine list is beatable. If I hadn’t gotten seized I think the game swings the other way to me.
Most of all it was way more fun than the castle.
I will be well pleased if the orks get some releases and new lore inspired by the Beast and all the crazy stuff the orks got up to during that whole thing.
I will be well pleased if the orks get some releases and new lore inspired by the Beast and all the crazy stuff the orks got up to during that whole thing.
Reading the thing and was thinking "Is Ghazghkull isn't it?". The banner waver part at the end kinda confirms it.
Problem with Warhammer is that the mysteries are like wondering who is the Arkham Knight.
I feel they are going to tease Ghazgkull till he comes out
Because it's all but conformed that War of the Beast is going to be a box set. If it's truly Space Wolves VS orks then I will have to get it for my brother and I end up with the orks {The Ork army I have like some others is an army I ended up and they live in a box}
Still I don't know what clan to plain them as I kind of wanted to do deathskull but my brother is pushing for bad moon since you don't see them often
But the other reason I have not painted them is storage which is a problem I need to figure out and soon
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
oh hell yeah, makari is no longer retconned!
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Oh it's definitely Ghazghkull, but the article implies that lore introduce during the War of the Beast storyline is going to be introduced to the 40k setting. And that's great, because the ork lore from War of the Beast is juicy as hell.
The warboss from 32k, known as the Beast, was so named because he would repeatedly broadcast the message "I am the Beast of Slaughter!" throughout the systems he attacked.
"I am the Beast of Slaughter" translates into orkish as "Mag Uruk Thraka", which has long been part of Ghazghkull's name. Also, it was eventually revealed that there were six Beasts, and the Beast-WAAAGH enjoyed tech at a notably higher level than anything the orks in 40k had - beast-orks were teleporting moons around and using gravity and wormhole technology. They had ambassadors.
So what the hell does it all mean? Why does Ghazghkull share the title of the Beasts? Is he reaching their level? Is the identity of 'The Beast' not just about any specific ork and more a type of ork, a supreme leader caste generated by the WAAAGH-field when the orks are ready to take war to the next level? The first Beast showed up when the orks were in danger of being permanently overshadowed by the Imperium, could it be a response to desperate times for the orks, this time due to the opening of the Great Rift?
I love the idea that the orks WAAAGH-field and biology are tied together and the source of all their inherent knowledge, and the prospect that there are different 'tiers' of evolution to it is super rich loam for exploring new types of orks and expanding their lore. They were created by the Old Ones to be on the same tier as the Eldar, the Necrons, and the C'tan, the best of the Old Ones creations and the worst of their enemies. How do they compete with races that can blow up stars and warp time and space? The potential buried in the WAAAGH-field may be the answer.
I think there also used to be some fluff that orks get as strong and intelligent as they need to be, turning fighting them into some kind of mirror match. I think it was in connection with Titans? Like orks didn't have those until they met the imperium, but then they developed them almost immediately.
They were pretty much the ultimate achievement of the old ones but because those were in a hurry when they coded their genome there a a bunch of bugs in there.
I think there also used to be some fluff that orks get as strong and intelligent as they need to be, turning fighting them into some kind of mirror match. I think it was in connection with Titans? Like orks didn't have those until they met the imperium, but then they developed them almost immediately.
They were pretty much the ultimate achievement of the old ones but because those were in a hurry when they coded their genome there a a bunch of bugs in there.
I still have the book from then
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
edited February 2020
I'm guessing Ghazz will have a new unit profile to go with his new model and Makari.
I'm going to try and force myself to finally fully assemble my T Sons. I hate assembly, but I just gotta sit down and do it.
The Mutalith Vortex Beast is finished at least, and that was a job.
Edit- I'm also looking into trying out a Chaos Knight. Besides the Tzeentch relic that makes it a psyker, which builds of Knight are viable?
I'm guessing Ghazz will have a new unit profile to go with his new model and Makari.
I'm going to try and force myself to finally fully assemble my T Sons. I hate assembly, but I just gotta sit down and do it.
The Mutalith Vortex Beast is finished at least, and that was a job.
Edit- I'm also looking into trying out a Chaos Knight. Besides the Tzeentch relic that makes it a psyker, which builds of Knight are viable?
Standard build is dual melta cannons on them. Make them the one with additional attacks on the charge. Dreadblade as well. Lots of good choices there.
The relics tend to be based on need.
1. Ignore minus to hit penalties verse eldar.
2. Verse orks you can do the vow that gives more attacks for every 10 models killed
3. Vow to ignore wounds on a 1, 2, and 3 verse some high strength weapons.
They are really variable. Also it is highly recommend to magnetize the hell out of the. Because you can play them in a lot of variations especially compared to loyalist.
Edit:
With the right pacts and the slaanesh artifact you can get +2" to your run and charge rolls. And use CP to charge after advancing. Which gives you like a 25" threat range or something.
Mazzyx on
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
Thanks for the advice Mazz. I should have stipulated that its Tzaantch only or un-aligned, this is to go with my T Sons. That also means I will have a bunch of Rubrics pouring out solid mid-range firepower.
Thanks for the advice Mazz. I should have stipulated that its Tzaantch only or un-aligned, this is to go with my T Sons. That also means I will have a bunch of Rubrics pouring out solid mid-range firepower.
I mean Chaos Knights do not have marks and there are 4 relics tied to a god but not really. Its usually just in the name, they do not gain the keyword.
I am at work so I am doing this from memory but there are a few relics that you can use anyway that aren't god aligned. All of the warlord traits/dread pacts are unaligned. The Chaos Knight book is very much unaligned.
Are people not mixing up Psychic Awakening and the Conquest magazine thing?
Silver templars are a subscriber only thing that are coming out now for that, but I could believe it's laying ground work for May and the book after Engine War. There's tiny images of the new primaris bike/speeders etc that need a book for rules.
If Silver Templars are getting rules in Conquest I could see them being reprinted in Psychic Awakening, wouldn't be they first time they republished materials in it.
If Silver Templars are getting rules in Conquest I could see them being reprinted in Psychic Awakening, wouldn't be they first time they republished materials in it.
No rules as far as I know, just background and colour schemes. But done in the newer style.
Have some bits to do (gear, eyes) but feeling ok with where this guy got to. The cloak isn't TOO horrible, despite the greenstuff mess. Hood went much better with just using plastic glue and extra pressure, thank you for whomever suggested that.
Edit:
Doing this in subassemblies makes things so much easier. It's absurd. But at the same time, you end up painting things that will never be seen. So, there is that.
Also, I desperately need a desk lamp, as shining a bright light on this stuff is causing me to see things I absolutely missed.
As an aside, stopped by my FLGS -- the owner pinged me on facebook to let me know he got a big GW order in. He finally actually had a SM Devastator Squad, and I thought to ask him if he could check in the back for an Assault Squad because it seemed odd that he never had them available. Found a dust covered one buried back there.
So yeah, now have everything I need to complete a proper SM Kill Team. Kinda planning on swapping some of the running legs from the Assault Marines with Tactical Squad Marines, so I have some variety in my bolter boy poses. At the very least, I should be able to make a few running Sergeants? (Not sure how well Assault Marines with Jetpacks but stationary legs will look.)
Following the advice of /tg/ ("Is it possible to make a KT out of a Tactical Squad Box."):
Although I am eyeballing buying a Forge World Plasma guns bundle, as apparently the way to go with KT is as many Plasma guns as humanly possible. (Lets just say this debate got pretty heated.)
And, of course, I have 30 MK3 Marines to paint up as well, along with their special and heavy weapons... And 5 of some kind of fancy Terminators... I swear, I didn't intend to have a Space Marine army, it just sprouted up as I collected other stuff.
Having said that, apparently the First Strike Box is 3 Reivers and 3 Intercessors, which is apparently a perfect PSM Kill Team -- just need a power sword, and I probably have one of those laying around someplace. The Plague Marines don't hit 100 points, but adding the Easy To Build Plague Marines box apparently gets you exactly what you need. Will need to pick up some paint to do Plague Marines right. Thinking of "The Cleaved" or maybe even cheating and going Black Legion. ... Probably can use the purple I got for purity seal wax for tentacles. Apparently the Cleaved is just Rakarth Flesh armor with a wash, it's literally the same color as what I use for purity seals. (Can't tell if it has silver trim or not.)
Either way, for $50 combined on Amazon, that's not bad for two KTs, since my goal was to make a set of demo KTs for the FLGS. I'd probably toss in a Deathwatch upgrade kit for an additional $12 or so -- apparently Primaris Deathwatch Kill Teams are pretty good.
...And of course, now I'm looking at Vanguard Space Marines and rather enjoying the idea of an entire army of Blood Ravens special forces ...
Oh man, this new Necromunda Goliath book has bust things wide open. It's pretty much a new edition when it comes to gang composition and the changes seem to be all for the better! It'll be a little odd playing a mix of the new house books and the old houses playing catch up, but I like this a lot.
Posts
I wonder if that would change if Drop Pods were treated as terrain instead of as a unit.
Alternately, we could all agree to start a campaign to publically shame anyone who adds Loyal 32 or Rusty 17 type shenanigans to their armies.
I actually like it, for such an old model it's pretty nice. His claw is way more interesting than his successor model's.
Made to order... I know 3D Printing isn't really a viable option for us (it will be by the end of this year or next, guaranteed), but industrial 3D printing would allow GW to print models to order forever. And in insane ways -- want a MK2 Crusade Tactical Squad Equivalent with period appropriate bolters and weapons? No need to make a mold of that or keep a warehouse full. Just keep the STL files handy and print the sprues.
Wonder if they're looking into that sort of thing.
Or get rid of the generic detachments and have each codex have ones specific to their army. So the big ticket armies like Knights and Custodes could get more CP despite their low model count, while IG would need to bring more than 32 models to get the fat points. That'd probably come with it's own problems though.
If there were one core issue that I think is driving the balance problems, it's that GW seems to only consider things like strategems, points cost, various stats and whatnot, in isolation. Strategem A might be fine, strategem B might be fine, but combine them with Army Trait X and something involving rerolls and it becomes very much not fine. Even then things like the Iron Hands release only make sense if GW just didn't do any testing given how really really good a lot of their stuff was.
I'm more interested in the bomber.
Like, they’re ok, but the problem with them, and a lot of Tau units, is that there are better options at similar points costs.
Why bring kroot when a min strike squad is cheaper and tougher mathematically?
Why bring Vespid when you can bring a commander?
Why play the tanks when Riptides exist?
Why play the planes, when a coldstars is basically one of the best “planes” in the game?
The new book helps a lot with some of these questions. Breachers have a reason for existing now, crisis suits can rival broadsides, and you could argue for three bombers in FSE to use the strat (and aggressive footing/default FSE is good for them) but it’s a little gimmicky. The bombers are good if you’re expecting to see plaguebearers, it’s the only way to reduce their number before the -1 kicks in.
Tau planes also have the strange situation where they’re the only overcharge guns in the game that renders the weapon unusable on a 1 AND gives the gun a -1 to hit from moving.
So again, probably a gimmick, but it might be interesting to have a screen of Remora's and tag multiple units to inflict mortal wounds on for 1 cp.
25-18 to my opponent, but for ITC that’s a close game.
So the FSE list is good. Great even. But if you mess up you are going to get punished hard. I deployed aggressively, but because our game was using the old ITC pack got seized on and lost a lot of drones and a riptide. I still managed to kill all of his infantry in return but some bad damage rolls left two of his character dreads on 3 wounds between them which cost me my coldstars on response.
Still it was a good showing regardless. With some practice the marine list is beatable. If I hadn’t gotten seized I think the game swings the other way to me.
Most of all it was way more fun than the castle.
I will be well pleased if the orks get some releases and new lore inspired by the Beast and all the crazy stuff the orks got up to during that whole thing.
Problem with Warhammer is that the mysteries are like wondering who is the Arkham Knight.
Because it's all but conformed that War of the Beast is going to be a box set. If it's truly Space Wolves VS orks then I will have to get it for my brother and I end up with the orks {The Ork army I have like some others is an army I ended up and they live in a box}
Still I don't know what clan to plain them as I kind of wanted to do deathskull but my brother is pushing for bad moon since you don't see them often
But the other reason I have not painted them is storage which is a problem I need to figure out and soon
Like he looks like he might be dread sized.
Which is I guess loyalist primarch sized.
It does look pretty cool.
"I am the Beast of Slaughter" translates into orkish as "Mag Uruk Thraka", which has long been part of Ghazghkull's name. Also, it was eventually revealed that there were six Beasts, and the Beast-WAAAGH enjoyed tech at a notably higher level than anything the orks in 40k had - beast-orks were teleporting moons around and using gravity and wormhole technology. They had ambassadors.
So what the hell does it all mean? Why does Ghazghkull share the title of the Beasts? Is he reaching their level? Is the identity of 'The Beast' not just about any specific ork and more a type of ork, a supreme leader caste generated by the WAAAGH-field when the orks are ready to take war to the next level? The first Beast showed up when the orks were in danger of being permanently overshadowed by the Imperium, could it be a response to desperate times for the orks, this time due to the opening of the Great Rift?
I love the idea that the orks WAAAGH-field and biology are tied together and the source of all their inherent knowledge, and the prospect that there are different 'tiers' of evolution to it is super rich loam for exploring new types of orks and expanding their lore. They were created by the Old Ones to be on the same tier as the Eldar, the Necrons, and the C'tan, the best of the Old Ones creations and the worst of their enemies. How do they compete with races that can blow up stars and warp time and space? The potential buried in the WAAAGH-field may be the answer.
They were pretty much the ultimate achievement of the old ones but because those were in a hurry when they coded their genome there a a bunch of bugs in there.
I still have the book from then
I'm going to try and force myself to finally fully assemble my T Sons. I hate assembly, but I just gotta sit down and do it.
The Mutalith Vortex Beast is finished at least, and that was a job.
Edit- I'm also looking into trying out a Chaos Knight. Besides the Tzeentch relic that makes it a psyker, which builds of Knight are viable?
Standard build is dual melta cannons on them. Make them the one with additional attacks on the charge. Dreadblade as well. Lots of good choices there.
The relics tend to be based on need.
1. Ignore minus to hit penalties verse eldar.
2. Verse orks you can do the vow that gives more attacks for every 10 models killed
3. Vow to ignore wounds on a 1, 2, and 3 verse some high strength weapons.
They are really variable. Also it is highly recommend to magnetize the hell out of the. Because you can play them in a lot of variations especially compared to loyalist.
Edit:
With the right pacts and the slaanesh artifact you can get +2" to your run and charge rolls. And use CP to charge after advancing. Which gives you like a 25" threat range or something.
I mean Chaos Knights do not have marks and there are 4 relics tied to a god but not really. Its usually just in the name, they do not gain the keyword.
I am at work so I am doing this from memory but there are a few relics that you can use anyway that aren't god aligned. All of the warlord traits/dread pacts are unaligned. The Chaos Knight book is very much unaligned.
Jesus fucking Christ, GW. Stop already.
Link?
Because at this moment I am just not believing anything till stuff actually comes out.
Edit: Could it be Deathwatch? I don't remember them being attached to anyone yet.
Edit 2: Someone just posted the screen shot in my what'sapp group for 40k. What the fuck is a Silver Templar?
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Silver_Templars
Basically, the chapter that GW made to sell Primaris models, because they sure need help doing that /s
Silver templars are a subscriber only thing that are coming out now for that, but I could believe it's laying ground work for May and the book after Engine War. There's tiny images of the new primaris bike/speeders etc that need a book for rules.
No rules as far as I know, just background and colour schemes. But done in the newer style.
Have some bits to do (gear, eyes) but feeling ok with where this guy got to. The cloak isn't TOO horrible, despite the greenstuff mess. Hood went much better with just using plastic glue and extra pressure, thank you for whomever suggested that.
Edit:
Doing this in subassemblies makes things so much easier. It's absurd. But at the same time, you end up painting things that will never be seen. So, there is that.
Also, I desperately need a desk lamp, as shining a bright light on this stuff is causing me to see things I absolutely missed.
As an aside, stopped by my FLGS -- the owner pinged me on facebook to let me know he got a big GW order in. He finally actually had a SM Devastator Squad, and I thought to ask him if he could check in the back for an Assault Squad because it seemed odd that he never had them available. Found a dust covered one buried back there.
So yeah, now have everything I need to complete a proper SM Kill Team. Kinda planning on swapping some of the running legs from the Assault Marines with Tactical Squad Marines, so I have some variety in my bolter boy poses. At the very least, I should be able to make a few running Sergeants? (Not sure how well Assault Marines with Jetpacks but stationary legs will look.)
Following the advice of /tg/ ("Is it possible to make a KT out of a Tactical Squad Box."):
Although I am eyeballing buying a Forge World Plasma guns bundle, as apparently the way to go with KT is as many Plasma guns as humanly possible. (Lets just say this debate got pretty heated.)
And, of course, I have 30 MK3 Marines to paint up as well, along with their special and heavy weapons... And 5 of some kind of fancy Terminators... I swear, I didn't intend to have a Space Marine army, it just sprouted up as I collected other stuff.
Having said that, apparently the First Strike Box is 3 Reivers and 3 Intercessors, which is apparently a perfect PSM Kill Team -- just need a power sword, and I probably have one of those laying around someplace. The Plague Marines don't hit 100 points, but adding the Easy To Build Plague Marines box apparently gets you exactly what you need. Will need to pick up some paint to do Plague Marines right. Thinking of "The Cleaved" or maybe even cheating and going Black Legion. ... Probably can use the purple I got for purity seal wax for tentacles. Apparently the Cleaved is just Rakarth Flesh armor with a wash, it's literally the same color as what I use for purity seals. (Can't tell if it has silver trim or not.)
Either way, for $50 combined on Amazon, that's not bad for two KTs, since my goal was to make a set of demo KTs for the FLGS. I'd probably toss in a Deathwatch upgrade kit for an additional $12 or so -- apparently Primaris Deathwatch Kill Teams are pretty good.
...And of course, now I'm looking at Vanguard Space Marines and rather enjoying the idea of an entire army of Blood Ravens special forces ...