I'm trying to read past the show in the books before watching the corresponding seasons, just wondering how things line up as I've only watched the first 2 seasons of the show. I've read books 1 and 2 in their entirety and got 3 and 4 for Xmas. Where would I need to read to before watching the latest season?
The work that Wes Chatam has put into Amos, who could easily have been a one dimensional character, is epic.
I think Alex weirdly is the least developed character of the whole show sadly. He always just seems to be the guy who's there.
I really wish Shed hadn't been killed in Season 1 too because I really like Paulo Costanzo and I thought he did a real good job.
Throwing yet another crew member on the Rocinante wouldn't help another being under written exactly.
Alex bravely fills the role of main character I'm most okay with getting killed however, so he's very good at that
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Man, I love Alex. He doesn't get much story focus, but I think his actor is one of the strongest on the show. Season 3 especially gave him some great scenes, like his sheer panic dealing with the Hybrid Pods, and multiple scenes of quietly freaking the fuck out when they're in the Ring.
Considering the scant material dedicated to Alex up until Book 5, I think Cas Anvar has done an amazing job elevating that character.
Man, I love Alex. He doesn't get much story focus, but I think his actor is one of the strongest on the show. Season 3 especially gave him some great scenes, like his sheer panic dealing with the Hybrid Pods, and multiple scenes of quietly freaking the fuck out when they're in the Ring.
Considering the scant material dedicated to Alex up until Book 5, I think Cas Anvar has done an amazing job elevating that character.
Oh I have no enmity for the character but half of the time he's very much just there story wise. Part of the hazard of having to be the person piloting the ship means you're in a sense disconnected from the action and any mortal drama is most likely shared with one or more of the other principals.
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Considering the book/show's roots in a d20 modern forum game it's pretty clear that Alex was the dude whose there to be the alt-plotline highlight but not intimately involved because of that.
I'm trying to read past the show in the books before watching the corresponding seasons, just wondering how things line up as I've only watched the first 2 seasons of the show. I've read books 1 and 2 in their entirety and got 3 and 4 for Xmas. Where would I need to read to before watching the latest season?
Book 1 = Seasons 1-2.5
Book 2 = Seasons 2.6 - 3.6
Book 3 = Season 3.7 - 3.13
Book 4 = Season 4
I think they're probably going to be doing a book per season from now on. Also, some things happen earlier in the show than in the books to help things flow a little better (e.g. Avasarala is in the first episode of the first season, but she doesn't show up until the 2nd book).
I'm trying to read past the show in the books before watching the corresponding seasons, just wondering how things line up as I've only watched the first 2 seasons of the show. I've read books 1 and 2 in their entirety and got 3 and 4 for Xmas. Where would I need to read to before watching the latest season?
In general with this series, I recommend being two books ahead of the season you are about to watch. This guarantees you don't get anything spoiled.
While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
I still need to watch episode 10, but my one big glaring issue is (contains HUGE book spoilers past Book 4, so don't read if you don't want things ruined):
I really am enjoying the show's versions of Ashford and Drummer (even though I'm still displeased by not including Bull), as they are insanely better and stronger characters than in the book. I still prefer the way the books did it, but this is still a great adaptation. However, Michio Pa's character played a vital role in switching sides so many times that I cannot see how the show's Drummer is going to fit in with Inaros and the Free Navy. Plus, the way the show has Dawes and the way they already introduced Inaros, it seems like the entire setup has been altered.
Don't get me wrong: I'm totally stoked to see how they display the asteroids and all. But given how they reduced Book 3 to basically half a season (cutting out so much of what I loved about Book 3), I wouldn't be surprised if they try to cram Books 4 & 5 together into one season just to get the whole Free Navy thing over with.
And full disclosure, I've only read through Book 6.
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While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I feel this was shamelessly cribbed from the Interstellar score, but hot dang Season 4 had some excellent music
I still need to watch episode 10, but my one big glaring issue is (contains HUGE book spoilers past Book 4, so don't read if you don't want things ruined):
I really am enjoying the show's versions of Ashford and Drummer (even though I'm still displeased by not including Bull), as they are insanely better and stronger characters than in the book. I still prefer the way the books did it, but this is still a great adaptation. However, Michio Pa's character played a vital role in switching sides so many times that I cannot see how the show's Drummer is going to fit in with Inaros and the Free Navy. Plus, the way the show has Dawes and the way they already introduced Inaros, it seems like the entire setup has been altered.
Don't get me wrong: I'm totally stoked to see how they display the asteroids and all. But given how they reduced Book 3 to basically half a season (cutting out so much of what I loved about Book 3), I wouldn't be surprised if they try to cram Books 4 & 5 together into one season just to get the whole Free Navy thing over with.
And full disclosure, I've only read through Book 6.
Again, a warning, don't read if you haven't read through book 6
I think the investigator chapters would have been super difficult to transition well into the show. I feel like that was why they took them out essentially. I feel the rest of the reason they squashed down the Ilus was that it was just a lot of waiting. Pure speculation, but I think book 4 will take up more time because there is much more action and events going on in different areas.
But yeah, I don't know quite how they're going to do Pa's character. I don't think they can do Drummer as Pa any more, unless they deliberately go in the direction of "Drummer is going deep undercover to infiltrate Inaros' faction". I think instead, we'll actually get an introduction to Pa sometime early in the next season, and then her turning on Inaros will be more of a shock to non-book readers.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
What's wrong with Amos? Just finished the part where Bobbie kicks the shit out of him and he's no longer dreaming about murdering random people?
I mean, is that the sum of his character? He's a sociopath who was able to vent his behavior with regular bouts of violence and after 30 years of relative peace he now just wants to murder everyone?
Except now after he gets beaten up, when he fantasizes about killing a crewmate it's not followed with physical urges?
I still need to watch episode 10, but my one big glaring issue is (contains HUGE book spoilers past Book 4, so don't read if you don't want things ruined):
I really am enjoying the show's versions of Ashford and Drummer (even though I'm still displeased by not including Bull), as they are insanely better and stronger characters than in the book. I still prefer the way the books did it, but this is still a great adaptation. However, Michio Pa's character played a vital role in switching sides so many times that I cannot see how the show's Drummer is going to fit in with Inaros and the Free Navy. Plus, the way the show has Dawes and the way they already introduced Inaros, it seems like the entire setup has been altered.
Don't get me wrong: I'm totally stoked to see how they display the asteroids and all. But given how they reduced Book 3 to basically half a season (cutting out so much of what I loved about Book 3), I wouldn't be surprised if they try to cram Books 4 & 5 together into one season just to get the whole Free Navy thing over with.
And full disclosure, I've only read through Book 6.
I am also a big fan of series Ashford (and more so the actor).
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
The Season 4 OST is out! The whole thing is available to stream on Spotify or YouTube. Highlights include The Wave, Saving Them All and Footsteps of History. That last one has a particularly gnarly reprise of the slow down scene, aka the "Protomolecule Doing Some Shit" theme from Season 3 that I love so much, at 1:10
Due to the COVID-19 concerns, when we had a plumber come out to look at our hot water heater, we both were wearing proper face mask garb. Unfortunately, through our 30 minutes of conversation, we had trouble with facial expression and some other physical queues that we all take for granted (there's only so much you can do with your eyebrows). I started using Belter hand signs to see if that helped... pretty sure it did not, but it was worth trying.
Thought that was worth sharing in here.
While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
The shrug, the nod for yes, the nod for no... That was all I could remember off the top of my head. He just looked at my fist like a confused puppy, then looked back at me.
While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
Holden. Do not put your dick in it. It's fucked enough already.
Honestly at this point it's a miracle literally any power player is like "Wow this sure is a complex problem, better call Holden to deal with it," considering the dudes propensity for pissing off every political power that's ever even suggested stuff to him.
Way back before modeen medicine or psychiatry people used to call on doctors all the time even though it was plainly observable that most of what they did had no effect.
People faced with a terrifying unknown will turn to people willing to so something even if its not going to be the right one.
The shrug, the nod for yes, the nod for no... That was all I could remember off the top of my head. He just looked at my fist like a confused puppy, then looked back at me.
As far as I can tell, the shrug is you lifting a hand (or maybe both hands) to your shoulder area, then purposefully raising it some more as if it is your shoulder shrugging
The nod is literally taking your fist and, well, exaggeratedly nodding through a vertical motion with the fist as if it were a head nodding yes. Similar effect for the shake for no, but with a lateral motion instead of vertical.
Basically, think what your body does for that type of physical communication and then copy it with your hand.
You'd think the most common gestures would be for facial expressions rather than the ones we saw in the show. Yes, no, I don't know, and thank you are the only ones I recall and those are all easy enough to just say aloud. Smile, frown, grimace, disbelief, surprise, eye-roll, and wink you'd think would be the things they'd have commonly-used gestures for since you can't see them through a glare visor or necessarily hear the tone over a shitty radio connection.
You'd think the most common gestures would be for facial expressions rather than the ones we saw in the show. Yes, no, I don't know, and thank you are the only ones I recall and those are all easy enough to just say aloud. Smile, frown, grimace, disbelief, surprise, eye-roll, and wink you'd think would be the things they'd have commonly-used gestures for since you can't see them through a glare visor or necessarily hear the tone over a shitty radio connection.
But these are hand signs intended to be used when you can't talk and where simple head gestures might not work, such as a while wearing a bulky, out-of-date, held-together-with-space-tape EVA suit with faulty comms.
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"If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
You'd think the most common gestures would be for facial expressions rather than the ones we saw in the show. Yes, no, I don't know, and thank you are the only ones I recall and those are all easy enough to just say aloud. Smile, frown, grimace, disbelief, surprise, eye-roll, and wink you'd think would be the things they'd have commonly-used gestures for since you can't see them through a glare visor or necessarily hear the tone over a shitty radio connection.
But these are hand signs intended to be used when you can't talk and where simple head gestures might not work, such as a while wearing a bulky, out-of-date, held-together-with-space-tape EVA suit with faulty comms.
I know they're for when you're in an EVA suit; that's what I'm saying. Even if you can't speak a shrug gesture is pretty obvious and thumbs up/down are there for your nodding/head-shaking needs.
If you're going to develop a shared gestural language when you can't talk at all I'd expect it to include a lot more than yes/no/dunno (and, indeed, those would be relatively useless since the other person can't ask a question for you to respond to). If you're limited to short, staticy messages then I'd expect the gestures to supplement tone and intent that would get lost in the noise.
Scuba sign is probably the closest (civilian) equivalent we have today, but even that seems the rely on a level of mobility you may not get in a EVA suit. While the ones we see in the show are pretty thin, earlier models were probably more similar to what we have today, and Belter sign has been around for what, at least a few hundred years? So some elements probably reflect those early limitations where even a shrug or nod might not be possible given the overall bulk of the suit.
Just seeing what there is for scuba sign makes me think there must be tons more belt signs, but most viewers won't read subtitles much less pay attention to sign language.
"If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
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Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
edited May 2020
I remember hearing that they put less belter slang in the 4th season because viewers were confused by it. People are dumb.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I remember hearing that they put less belter slang in the 4th season because viewers were confused by it. People are dumb.
Not really, since slang when you have no reference point is basically just encrypting the language with a cypher. It's one thing when we drop into the setting and we get it explained right away what "welwala" means, it's a whole different situation when you've got belters talking back and forth with accents so heavy it makes even just understanding the plain English parts difficult. I don't mind rereading a chunk of heavy slang in a book to pry the meaning out of it, but it's definitely an issue when it's a live-action show that is heavy on details that really need to not get buried in near-impenetrable speech. People who haven't read the books need to be able to understand the show without a translator handy.
A very very different setup from, say, Firefly, where context always made it obvious what a Chinese word was being used for.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Eh, I feel like the vast majority of lang belta gets across via context. Like the very dramatic bit in S3 with
Naomi yelling at Drummer that Holden isn't capable of blowing up the Seung Un because "to sasa im"
Ya don't need to know what any of those words mean to get what she's saying, IMO.
The shrug, the nod for yes, the nod for no... That was all I could remember off the top of my head. He just looked at my fist like a confused puppy, then looked back at me.
Is there an instructional video on this?
Honestly, I just pulled my interpretations from the books, but it would be pretty awesome for someone to make said video.
While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
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lwt1973King of ThievesSyndicationRegistered Userregular
Do you suppose they would recast him rather than kill the character off? I have the first three books, mocking me from my shelf, but I've yet to get into them so I'm not certain how critical his character is, but the role he plays for the other characters feels important.
Do you suppose they would recast him rather than kill the character off? I have the first three books, mocking me from my shelf, but I've yet to get into them so I'm not certain how critical his character is, but the role he plays for the other characters feels important.
Very light spoilers just in case
He plays a major role in the books but, IMO, isn't irreplaceable. I love the character Alex but there's not a whole lot unique to just him. He's a great pilot, he's from Mars which creates a bond between him and Bobbie, and he's a well intentioned but terrible husband. Other than that he plays the straight man to Amos's weirdness. He's always involved but rarely central to any of the main stories.
If he ends up being removed from the show I think it'd be best to create a new character to take his place.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I'd rather they wrote him off. The recast for Arjun was super distracting, and he'd been a very minor character previously. Recasting Alex would be rough.
Also I'm fuckin' devastated that Cas is a creep. I had him firmly in the coolguy category in my head, and it's made me realize I don't know what's going on with anybody.
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Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Throwing yet another crew member on the Rocinante wouldn't help another being under written exactly.
Alex bravely fills the role of main character I'm most okay with getting killed however, so he's very good at that
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Considering the scant material dedicated to Alex up until Book 5, I think Cas Anvar has done an amazing job elevating that character.
Oh I have no enmity for the character but half of the time he's very much just there story wise. Part of the hazard of having to be the person piloting the ship means you're in a sense disconnected from the action and any mortal drama is most likely shared with one or more of the other principals.
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Book 1 = Seasons 1-2.5
Book 2 = Seasons 2.6 - 3.6
Book 3 = Season 3.7 - 3.13
Book 4 = Season 4
I think they're probably going to be doing a book per season from now on. Also, some things happen earlier in the show than in the books to help things flow a little better (e.g. Avasarala is in the first episode of the first season, but she doesn't show up until the 2nd book).
edit:
For some reason, the one that's stuck with me the most is (spoilers for s4e10)
"Fucked, lady. What I am is fucked."
Don't get me wrong: I'm totally stoked to see how they display the asteroids and all. But given how they reduced Book 3 to basically half a season (cutting out so much of what I loved about Book 3), I wouldn't be surprised if they try to cram Books 4 & 5 together into one season just to get the whole Free Navy thing over with.
And full disclosure, I've only read through Book 6.
Also, Amos forever.
Like it A LOT and I am very excited to see the show actors tackle this story.
Again, a warning, don't read if you haven't read through book 6
But yeah, I don't know quite how they're going to do Pa's character. I don't think they can do Drummer as Pa any more, unless they deliberately go in the direction of "Drummer is going deep undercover to infiltrate Inaros' faction". I think instead, we'll actually get an introduction to Pa sometime early in the next season, and then her turning on Inaros will be more of a shock to non-book readers.
I mean, is that the sum of his character? He's a sociopath who was able to vent his behavior with regular bouts of violence and after 30 years of relative peace he now just wants to murder everyone?
Except now after he gets beaten up, when he fantasizes about killing a crewmate it's not followed with physical urges?
Real unhappy if that's the case.
Don’t read if you haven’t
I haven't read it yet. But I have it! And I am pleased.
Nothing to add, starting the book, and won’t read anything about it until I’m done.
(Also posting is supposed to fix the unread thread forum bug. I hope.)
I am also a big fan of series Ashford (and more so the actor).
Oof. So good.
Thought that was worth sharing in here.
Way back before modeen medicine or psychiatry people used to call on doctors all the time even though it was plainly observable that most of what they did had no effect.
People faced with a terrifying unknown will turn to people willing to so something even if its not going to be the right one.
Is there an instructional video on this?
The nod is literally taking your fist and, well, exaggeratedly nodding through a vertical motion with the fist as if it were a head nodding yes. Similar effect for the shake for no, but with a lateral motion instead of vertical.
Basically, think what your body does for that type of physical communication and then copy it with your hand.
But these are hand signs intended to be used when you can't talk and where simple head gestures might not work, such as a while wearing a bulky, out-of-date, held-together-with-space-tape EVA suit with faulty comms.
I know they're for when you're in an EVA suit; that's what I'm saying. Even if you can't speak a shrug gesture is pretty obvious and thumbs up/down are there for your nodding/head-shaking needs.
If you're going to develop a shared gestural language when you can't talk at all I'd expect it to include a lot more than yes/no/dunno (and, indeed, those would be relatively useless since the other person can't ask a question for you to respond to). If you're limited to short, staticy messages then I'd expect the gestures to supplement tone and intent that would get lost in the noise.
Just seeing what there is for scuba sign makes me think there must be tons more belt signs, but most viewers won't read subtitles much less pay attention to sign language.
Not really, since slang when you have no reference point is basically just encrypting the language with a cypher. It's one thing when we drop into the setting and we get it explained right away what "welwala" means, it's a whole different situation when you've got belters talking back and forth with accents so heavy it makes even just understanding the plain English parts difficult. I don't mind rereading a chunk of heavy slang in a book to pry the meaning out of it, but it's definitely an issue when it's a live-action show that is heavy on details that really need to not get buried in near-impenetrable speech. People who haven't read the books need to be able to understand the show without a translator handy.
A very very different setup from, say, Firefly, where context always made it obvious what a Chinese word was being used for.
Ya don't need to know what any of those words mean to get what she's saying, IMO.
They are investigating right now.
Very light spoilers just in case
If he ends up being removed from the show I think it'd be best to create a new character to take his place.
Also I'm fuckin' devastated that Cas is a creep. I had him firmly in the coolguy category in my head, and it's made me realize I don't know what's going on with anybody.
I liked Cas Anvar as Alex.