KD is pretty gross... Anyways, I went to the grocery store today. It was quite an adventure!
Went to a Superstore around the corner this morning, 11:45ish. First thing I notice is they're bringing in carts and a cart guy is wiping them down as they come in the building, they have a little cleaning stand in the front foyer which has been emptied of all product. (usually full of chips / cases of pop)
Canned goods aisle was barren-ish, meat, produce, dairy was good. Baking aisle was pretty ransacked too. Git fucked ya panicky horders, I bought mine a few weeks back when I made Chicken Pot Pie! Lots of "2 limit so all families get some." No bulk goods, like ciabatta buns (oh god the struggle is real!) or single servings of cake (had to buy a whole one instead, no other choice)
The checkout process has changed, both checkout styles have people cleaning, and sanitizer as you leave. (Self checkout / cashier checkout.) Self checkout stations are wiped down between uses that I saw, but didn't use one.
For cashier lanes. they’re running every other aisle; you line up in the main aisle to get to them, separated by your cart from the next person. First person in is processed, pays and start bagging. Next person starts getting processed, paying, next person queues at the head of the cashier entry but doesn't load until first person bagging leaves. So only two/three people + cashier are at each line. One staff is organizing all this, “Go to aisle 3, go to aisle 5” etc, “don’t load your items until the person bagging has left…”
There are sneeze guards at all stations, big 4x6 plexiglass panels with a little window for pin pad on debit / credit terminal wiped down each use, alcohol rub stuff to clean your hands as you leave the store. No more cash back, they're requesting no cash transactions, but not declining. If you drop off your cart on the way out, cart guy grabs it and cleans it. Front foyer is cleared of all items, # of carts appears reduced.
My experience at noon-ish was 10 minutes to queue to get to the cashier. I'm in line 1 waiting to put my stuff on the conveyor and this dude just sort of wanders over behind me; I give the woman organizing the side eye and nod at buddy. She comes over, "excuse me sir, the line is over here."
"Oh....I thought this was the express lane"
Yeah, you just skip everyone else if you're in a rush dude, that's how that works…you fucking imbecile.
Saw at least two people just try to go to the front, get told how it works and they left their cart and left the store.
Lesson learned tho, going next Sunday at 7:30am to avoid any shenanigans.
Going at 0800 or 0900 on a weekday (or Saturday) seems to be the way to go now. Few other people are up and about that early thanks to the work from home thing, and the shelves are still stocked from the night. Went and did my shopping this way and got everything I needed in about 30 minutes total at Sobeys.
I've always preferred to do my grocery runs early in the morning but in my vicinity at the moment all the grocery stores are asking that the first hour after opening be dedicated for elderly and immunocompromised shoppers. Fortunately I had kind of seen the writing on the wall with all this and stocked up on some pantry staples a couple of weeks ago. I stopped in at one store last Friday for a few odds and ends but gave up as soon as I saw the lines and how picked over the shelves were. I can make do without another bag of sugar.
Quebec just announced a shut down of all non-essential businesses for the next 3 weeks.
That doesn't make sense to me. Shut down all non-essential businesses where you need to be physically present to work, sure. But all businesses, including those that were remote-working fine? What's the benefit in telling people who are self-isolating at home "oh, and don't you dare log into your work email!"
It's unrealistic for them to personally check in on every business in order to make sure that they're properly remote working and not needlessly bringing people in.
Quebec just announced a shut down of all non-essential businesses for the next 3 weeks.
That doesn't make sense to me. Shut down all non-essential businesses where you need to be physically present to work, sure. But all businesses, including those that were remote-working fine? What's the benefit in telling people who are self-isolating at home "oh, and don't you dare log into your work email!"
My first assumption would be as a way to emphasize that people need to lock this shit the fuck down and their announcements so far have not gotten through.
It's unrealistic for them to personally check in on every business in order to make sure that they're properly remote working and not needlessly bringing people in.
Actually it's a lot easier for them to personally check in on every business' commercial address to see if they're bringing in people than for them to police the internet to stop remote-work.
Or, if they just go with good faith, it's as easy to say "close down everything except remote work" as it is to say "close down everything period".
Ford just announced the same in Ontario. Except I have no idea what "essential" means. I'm in the manufacturing/construction business. Am I essential? No idea. Apparently, Ontario will put out a list of who is essential and who is not tomorrow.
Ford just announced the same in Ontario. Except I have no idea what "essential" means. I'm in the manufacturing/construction business. Am I essential? No idea. Apparently, Ontario will put out a list of who is essential and who is not tomorrow.
Same in Québec, a definitive list is coming soon, but right now rule of thumb is groceries, convenience stores, banks, and restaurants that do deliveries are essential, everything else is not.
And quick follow-up, my gf's boss apparently has Legault's number and asked him directly to clarify that remote work is ok and not included in the shutdown. It isn't. So just poorly-phrased I guess.
It's unrealistic for them to personally check in on every business in order to make sure that they're properly remote working and not needlessly bringing people in.
Actually it's a lot easier for them to personally check in on every business' commercial address to see if they're bringing in people than for them to police the internet to stop remote-work.
Or, if they just go with good faith, it's as easy to say "close down everything except remote work" as it is to say "close down everything period".
I would suspect it's not as likely to actually be effective though.
We've long since demonstrated in this crisis that if you give people any wiggle room, they will take it to evade lockdown.
FFS, governments, if you want to do something like that, prepare the fucking list first. Also, prepare the “making it so that not everyone goes bankrupt” money tree first, or at least announce its existence. A couple of weeks without a paycheck will destroy people; a couple of weeks with costs but no activity will destroy businesses.
Prepare things before announcing. Otherwise, all you get is panic and non-compliance.
Yeah we really need to start seeing more details about the financial handouts to us all soon, I'm a big proponent of all the closures that are happening for healthcare reasons but you need to accompany them with "And here's how the government is going to make sure that you are cared for as a result of the knock-on effects here."
FFS, governments, if you want to do something like that, prepare the fucking list first. Also, prepare the “making it so that not everyone goes bankrupt” money tree first, or at least announce its existence. A couple of weeks without a paycheck will destroy people; a couple of weeks with costs but no activity will destroy businesses.
Prepare things before announcing. Otherwise, all you get is panic and non-compliance.
There is value in locking everything down as quickly as possible and then getting aid rolling as quickly as possible after that.
FFS, governments, if you want to do something like that, prepare the fucking list first. Also, prepare the “making it so that not everyone goes bankrupt” money tree first, or at least announce its existence. A couple of weeks without a paycheck will destroy people; a couple of weeks with costs but no activity will destroy businesses.
Prepare things before announcing. Otherwise, all you get is panic and non-compliance.
There is value in locking everything down as quickly as possible and then getting aid rolling as quickly as possible after that.
There’s also value in telling people that you are planning to actually do enough to help, instead of leaving them in the dark. It takes a few sentences.
Also, you can’t lock down until you know what is and is not essential.
Also also, if you are planning the support and the list of essential services now, you are criminally incompetent. This should have been ready for weeks, just in case.
Ford just announced the same in Ontario. Except I have no idea what "essential" means. I'm in the manufacturing/construction business. Am I essential? No idea. Apparently, Ontario will put out a list of who is essential and who is not tomorrow.
Same in Québec, a definitive list is coming soon, but right now rule of thumb is groceries, convenience stores, banks, and restaurants that do deliveries are essential, everything else is not.
And quick follow-up, my gf's boss apparently has Legault's number and asked him directly to clarify that remote work is ok and not included in the shutdown. It isn't. So just poorly-phrased I guess.
Pennsylvania's governor's staythefuckhome order included a big list of businesses by economic sector, including which ones are okay and which ones aren't. That's been bouncing around online since the announcement and I suspect it's going to be the template other areas use, since it's either the first or the only one to really specify.
should we begin taking bets when people up here start saying the quiet part of capitalism out loud like they're starting to in the states
"people gotta work and die cause the economies the only thing that matters" ay
I thought it woulda been longer before they came to that conclusion but ive seen it even on these boards here and I thought there was more respect for your fellow workers but looks like theyre just as expendable as the global south
should we begin taking bets when people up here start saying the quiet part of capitalism out loud like they're starting to in the states
"people gotta work and die cause the economies the only thing that matters" ay
I thought it woulda been longer before they came to that conclusion but ive seen it even on these boards here and I thought there was more respect for your fellow workers but looks like theyre just as expendable as the global south
What are you talking about? The only person who I've heard say that is Trump, and he's a psychopath.
Might actually he better to just bite the bullet and have 5% of the nation die. Because i dont think a 20% reduction in GDP for 2 years leaves us with better numbers than that.
This was posted here and sure the context is maybe more people die of the economy exploded and it turns out America's wealth was all pointless (a high likely hood)
But also like shit gotta keep the status quo up better kill a bunch of people to keep this obviously good system running, is s u p r e m e l y fucked up and we'll I shouldn't be so surprised Liberals would consider it as well cause they think they can reform or fix it
Might actually he better to just bite the bullet and have 5% of the nation die. Because i dont think a 20% reduction in GDP for 2 years leaves us with better numbers than that.
This was posted here and sure the context is maybe more people die of the economy exploded and it turns out America's wealth was all pointless (a high likely hood)
But also like shit gotta keep the status quo up better kill a bunch of people to keep this obviously good system running, is s u p r e m e l y fucked up and we'll I shouldn't be so surprised Liberals would consider it as well cause they think they can reform or fix it
Do you think goods and services in a socialist economy would come from magic? You'd see the same problems and the same tradeoffs.
should we begin taking bets when people up here start saying the quiet part of capitalism out loud like they're starting to in the states
"people gotta work and die cause the economies the only thing that matters" ay
I thought it woulda been longer before they came to that conclusion but ive seen it even on these boards here and I thought there was more respect for your fellow workers but looks like theyre just as expendable as the global south
What are you talking about? The only person who I've heard say that is Trump, and he's a psychopath.
The Lt. Governor of Texas said tonight that... well:
"...no one reached out to me, and said - as a senior citizen - are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren. And if that's the exchange, I'm all in."
should we begin taking bets when people up here start saying the quiet part of capitalism out loud like they're starting to in the states
"people gotta work and die cause the economies the only thing that matters" ay
I thought it woulda been longer before they came to that conclusion but ive seen it even on these boards here and I thought there was more respect for your fellow workers but looks like theyre just as expendable as the global south
What are you talking about? The only person who I've heard say that is Trump, and he's a psychopath.
The Lt. Governor of Texas said tonight that... well:
"...no one reached out to me, and said - as a senior citizen - are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren. And if that's the exchange, I'm all in."
should we begin taking bets when people up here start saying the quiet part of capitalism out loud like they're starting to in the states
"people gotta work and die cause the economies the only thing that matters" ay
I thought it woulda been longer before they came to that conclusion but ive seen it even on these boards here and I thought there was more respect for your fellow workers but looks like theyre just as expendable as the global south
What are you talking about? The only person who I've heard say that is Trump, and he's a psychopath.
Half the Republican Party started talking like that in lockstep this afternoon, starting immediately after news of Trump saying that broke, and the lead story on Fox right now is suggesting the US do away with the contagion restrictions within weeks because quarterly returns are more important than public health.
The Ontario list of essential services out. And, predictably, it is vague. Especially in terms of my business and industry. #28 in particular leaves it open to individual construction companies to remain open or not. And since my business serves the construction industry... am I to remain open or not? The ambiguity here is very frustrating.
The tone of politicians at all levels does not match the restrictions of this list. To hear it on the radio or TV, I'd be an enemy of the state if I stayed open. But according to the list, I feel like it's really just a matter of choice to stay open or not.
The short answer is for me is to check with my stakeholders and make a decision tomorrow.
Yeah everything is still open including stuff already closed like student residences.
This announcement was a big fucking nothing and frankly insulting to the well-being of the public.
This just gives greedy business reason to stay open like Ford would want. This announcement wasn’t for the people it was for business to be able to remain open.
Might actually he better to just bite the bullet and have 5% of the nation die. Because i dont think a 20% reduction in GDP for 2 years leaves us with better numbers than that.
This was posted here and sure the context is maybe more people die of the economy exploded and it turns out America's wealth was all pointless (a high likely hood)
But also like shit gotta keep the status quo up better kill a bunch of people to keep this obviously good system running, is s u p r e m e l y fucked up and we'll I shouldn't be so surprised Liberals would consider it as well cause they think they can reform or fix it
Do you think goods and services in a socialist economy would come from magic? You'd see the same problems and the same tradeoffs.
There is fundamentally a level at which we will simply accept that the trade-off of stopping an infection is not worth the cost. That's why we aren't doing this full societal lockdown every winter to contain the flu, even though that kills a non-zero amount of people. 5% is ridiculously high for a "eh, we'll live with it" level of death though, most people would say. Which is why we are currently shutting most things down and incurring a hefty economic cost for it.
But at some point we are all gonna have to, like, do stuff again. Cause people need to be doing things to keep this whole "human civilization" thing we got going on, going on. And that's true regardless of the economic or political system employed. It's got nothing to do with capitalism specifically. It's just, like, shit has to get done. People gotta make things and move those things around to other people.
should we begin taking bets when people up here start saying the quiet part of capitalism out loud like they're starting to in the states
"people gotta work and die cause the economies the only thing that matters" ay
I thought it woulda been longer before they came to that conclusion but ive seen it even on these boards here and I thought there was more respect for your fellow workers but looks like theyre just as expendable as the global south
What are you talking about? The only person who I've heard say that is Trump, and he's a psychopath.
The Lt. Governor of Texas said tonight that... well:
"...no one reached out to me, and said - as a senior citizen - are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren. And if that's the exchange, I'm all in."
Politicians who tow this and similar lines should be put on a universal ban list for health care during all this.
should we begin taking bets when people up here start saying the quiet part of capitalism out loud like they're starting to in the states
"people gotta work and die cause the economies the only thing that matters" ay
I thought it woulda been longer before they came to that conclusion but ive seen it even on these boards here and I thought there was more respect for your fellow workers but looks like theyre just as expendable as the global south
What are you talking about? The only person who I've heard say that is Trump, and he's a psychopath.
The Lt. Governor of Texas said tonight that... well:
"...no one reached out to me, and said - as a senior citizen - are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren. And if that's the exchange, I'm all in."
Politicians who tow this and similar lines should be put on a universal ban list for health care during all this.
I feel like it would have just saved everyone a lot of time if they had instead released the list of businesses that aren't essential.
I think the only thing shut down by that might be residential construction and some office jobs, but not if you work in finance, or software, or IT, or media, or research (any kind), or you provide professional services
This is so vague its frustrating... I've been calling my customers and suppliers trying to get a pulse on whats up and nobody knows. At the same company, the purchasing manager says they're open all day and will let me know about tomorrow, but at the same time the shipping/receiving manager says don't send any trucks after lunch today because they're be closed.
My guys are worried, but mostly happy to still be working, yet I just broke up an argument when one of my guys (a smoker) coughed too close one of my welders and shit hit the fan. So there is definitely tension out back, and I have no news for them. Gah.
I work at a Long Term Care facility. Yesterday, management went around asking all the staff if they have second jobs. (A majority do - if you're part time you're generally doing that at multiple places to get enough hours to survive. And a lot of the full time staff also do limited hours elsewhere or do community work before/after their shifts.) They then followed up with asking: if we're in outbreak with Covid-19, will you come to work?
And... I think the no's have it.
We're already in a permanent state of being short, have major problems every summer/December when people take vacations, and are basically willing to hire anyone with certifications and a pulse. That's what you get for paying your staff like shit. Disaster waiting to happen.
In some personal and petty news, my parents have been trying to get some renovations done on the exterior of their house.
They were supposed to be done by November 2019 before my parents left to snowbird to Vegas, but the builders promised to work on it over the winter at their own extra cost.
It is now almost April, the builders have left their trailer and propane tanks all over the driveway, so I cannot get the cars out of the garage and my parents are supposed to come home soon.
I really need these guys to finish and clean their shit up so my parents can come home
They're debating (and probably passing) the emergency aid bill in Parliament today. The Liberals were going to ask for the power to spend and adjust tax rates without parliamentary approval (which seems somewhat reasonable) until the end of 2021 (which doesn't). Predictably, everyone flipped out, so they're taking that bit out of the bill, which makes me wonder just what the hell they were thinking putting it in there in the first place.
They're debating (and probably passing) the emergency aid bill in Parliament today. The Liberals were going to ask for the power to spend and adjust tax rates without parliamentary approval (which seems somewhat reasonable) until the end of 2021 (which doesn't). Predictably, everyone flipped out, so they're taking that bit out of the bill, which makes me wonder just what the hell they were thinking putting it in there in the first place.
“We really wish we were a majority government” is about it. I would really look at forming a coalition instead, since there’s no way the Conservatives would approve of the level of spending required. Especially since the Republicans are trying to get people killed.
Might actually he better to just bite the bullet and have 5% of the nation die. Because i dont think a 20% reduction in GDP for 2 years leaves us with better numbers than that.
This was posted here and sure the context is maybe more people die of the economy exploded and it turns out America's wealth was all pointless (a high likely hood)
But also like shit gotta keep the status quo up better kill a bunch of people to keep this obviously good system running, is s u p r e m e l y fucked up and we'll I shouldn't be so surprised Liberals would consider it as well cause they think they can reform or fix it
Do you think goods and services in a socialist economy would come from magic? You'd see the same problems and the same tradeoffs.
There is fundamentally a level at which we will simply accept that the trade-off of stopping an infection is not worth the cost. That's why we aren't doing this full societal lockdown every winter to contain the flu, even though that kills a non-zero amount of people. 5% is ridiculously high for a "eh, we'll live with it" level of death though, most people would say. Which is why we are currently shutting most things down and incurring a hefty economic cost for it.
But at some point we are all gonna have to, like, do stuff again. Cause people need to be doing things to keep this whole "human civilization" thing we got going on, going on. And that's true regardless of the economic or political system employed. It's got nothing to do with capitalism specifically. It's just, like, shit has to get done. People gotta make things and move those things around to other people.
i don't think people who say "it's just like, shit has to get done" really comprehend the rate of death even 1% is on the economy, and we are not getting it down to 1%
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MWO: Adamski
I've always preferred to do my grocery runs early in the morning but in my vicinity at the moment all the grocery stores are asking that the first hour after opening be dedicated for elderly and immunocompromised shoppers. Fortunately I had kind of seen the writing on the wall with all this and stocked up on some pantry staples a couple of weeks ago. I stopped in at one store last Friday for a few odds and ends but gave up as soon as I saw the lines and how picked over the shelves were. I can make do without another bag of sugar.
https://www.facebook.com/JustinPJTrudeau/posts/10158723228760649
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/jacinda-ardern-holds-special-coronavirus-press-conference-for-children
https://www.ft.com/content/38357156-6786-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3
1) That's great! I did not know about either of those cases before now.
2) They ain't speaking to my kids, so its less impressive to me. :razz:
That doesn't make sense to me. Shut down all non-essential businesses where you need to be physically present to work, sure. But all businesses, including those that were remote-working fine? What's the benefit in telling people who are self-isolating at home "oh, and don't you dare log into your work email!"
My first assumption would be as a way to emphasize that people need to lock this shit the fuck down and their announcements so far have not gotten through.
Actually it's a lot easier for them to personally check in on every business' commercial address to see if they're bringing in people than for them to police the internet to stop remote-work.
Or, if they just go with good faith, it's as easy to say "close down everything except remote work" as it is to say "close down everything period".
Same in Québec, a definitive list is coming soon, but right now rule of thumb is groceries, convenience stores, banks, and restaurants that do deliveries are essential, everything else is not.
And quick follow-up, my gf's boss apparently has Legault's number and asked him directly to clarify that remote work is ok and not included in the shutdown. It isn't. So just poorly-phrased I guess.
I would suspect it's not as likely to actually be effective though.
We've long since demonstrated in this crisis that if you give people any wiggle room, they will take it to evade lockdown.
Prepare things before announcing. Otherwise, all you get is panic and non-compliance.
There is value in locking everything down as quickly as possible and then getting aid rolling as quickly as possible after that.
There’s also value in telling people that you are planning to actually do enough to help, instead of leaving them in the dark. It takes a few sentences.
Also, you can’t lock down until you know what is and is not essential.
Also also, if you are planning the support and the list of essential services now, you are criminally incompetent. This should have been ready for weeks, just in case.
Pennsylvania's governor's staythefuckhome order included a big list of businesses by economic sector, including which ones are okay and which ones aren't. That's been bouncing around online since the announcement and I suspect it's going to be the template other areas use, since it's either the first or the only one to really specify.
"people gotta work and die cause the economies the only thing that matters" ay
I thought it woulda been longer before they came to that conclusion but ive seen it even on these boards here and I thought there was more respect for your fellow workers but looks like theyre just as expendable as the global south
What are you talking about? The only person who I've heard say that is Trump, and he's a psychopath.
It's essentially what you would expect. Also, online sales are still ok, even if most retail is not.
This was posted here and sure the context is maybe more people die of the economy exploded and it turns out America's wealth was all pointless (a high likely hood)
But also like shit gotta keep the status quo up better kill a bunch of people to keep this obviously good system running, is s u p r e m e l y fucked up and we'll I shouldn't be so surprised Liberals would consider it as well cause they think they can reform or fix it
Do you think goods and services in a socialist economy would come from magic? You'd see the same problems and the same tradeoffs.
The Lt. Governor of Texas said tonight that... well:
"...no one reached out to me, and said - as a senior citizen - are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren. And if that's the exchange, I'm all in."
I stand corrected.
Half the Republican Party started talking like that in lockstep this afternoon, starting immediately after news of Trump saying that broke, and the lead story on Fox right now is suggesting the US do away with the contagion restrictions within weeks because quarterly returns are more important than public health.
The tone of politicians at all levels does not match the restrictions of this list. To hear it on the radio or TV, I'd be an enemy of the state if I stayed open. But according to the list, I feel like it's really just a matter of choice to stay open or not.
The short answer is for me is to check with my stakeholders and make a decision tomorrow.
https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/03/list-of-essential-workplaces.html
This announcement was a big fucking nothing and frankly insulting to the well-being of the public.
This just gives greedy business reason to stay open like Ford would want. This announcement wasn’t for the people it was for business to be able to remain open.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/03/list-of-essential-workplaces-2.html
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There is fundamentally a level at which we will simply accept that the trade-off of stopping an infection is not worth the cost. That's why we aren't doing this full societal lockdown every winter to contain the flu, even though that kills a non-zero amount of people. 5% is ridiculously high for a "eh, we'll live with it" level of death though, most people would say. Which is why we are currently shutting most things down and incurring a hefty economic cost for it.
But at some point we are all gonna have to, like, do stuff again. Cause people need to be doing things to keep this whole "human civilization" thing we got going on, going on. And that's true regardless of the economic or political system employed. It's got nothing to do with capitalism specifically. It's just, like, shit has to get done. People gotta make things and move those things around to other people.
Politicians who tow this and similar lines should be put on a universal ban list for health care during all this.
Good news: he's from Texas.
I think the only thing shut down by that might be residential construction and some office jobs, but not if you work in finance, or software, or IT, or media, or research (any kind), or you provide professional services
My guys are worried, but mostly happy to still be working, yet I just broke up an argument when one of my guys (a smoker) coughed too close one of my welders and shit hit the fan. So there is definitely tension out back, and I have no news for them. Gah.
And... I think the no's have it.
We're already in a permanent state of being short, have major problems every summer/December when people take vacations, and are basically willing to hire anyone with certifications and a pulse. That's what you get for paying your staff like shit. Disaster waiting to happen.
They were supposed to be done by November 2019 before my parents left to snowbird to Vegas, but the builders promised to work on it over the winter at their own extra cost.
It is now almost April, the builders have left their trailer and propane tanks all over the driveway, so I cannot get the cars out of the garage and my parents are supposed to come home soon.
I really need these guys to finish and clean their shit up so my parents can come home
MWO: Adamski
i don't think people who say "it's just like, shit has to get done" really comprehend the rate of death even 1% is on the economy, and we are not getting it down to 1%